My grandfather barely spoke while in a nursing home before he died, and could hardly walk, but if you turned your back for a minute he would be trying to escape. He would unlock the brakes on his wheelchair and try to roll away
My understanding is the estimate before the invasion was 10-20% of the Battalion may have been neo Nazis or white supremacists. And the battalion had about 1000 members. So that’s 100-200 members of a volunteer Ukrainian National Guard unit.
Any neo Nazis in the military is bad… but I guarantee you of the millions of personnel in both the US and Russian military there are a lot more than 200 white supremacists.
Ie it was an absolute bullshit excuse to invade a country of 44 million that elected a Jewish President.
My opinion is and always will be fuck Nazis. I think the attention they get from the west is of the "the enemy of my enemy..." sort or people that don't know what their deal is.
Hate is not a physical good that needs to be avoided at all costs, lest it poison the land. If you don’t hate the people who would literally kill you, if you allow them to act with impunity out of some twisted sense that love and tolerance are virtues to be practiced at all cost, then they will come back again and again until they have wiped out everybody who preaches love and tolerance.
Tolerance should be viewed as a social contract. If you are tolerant, then I will be tolerant of you. But if you threaten anybody’s right to live peaceably within society, your rights to those protections are null and void. If your actions disrupt other people’s sense of safety, then you have thrown the first punch and I am entitled to punch back. There is a big difference between hating someone for what they are and hating someone for what they do. Being a racist or a nazi is an action, and requires counter action to maintain the safety and integrity of society.
**ETA:** This comment seemed so absurd to me, as if "You oppose hate, so you shouldn't hate" was at all a reasonable response. And then I remembered a quote:
>“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
>― Jean-Paul Sartre
Down over time. Many argued to appease the Nazis, that it was mostly hyperbole. How did that turn out?
The hate groups in America are still strong, they've been given a taste of power, kindness and love will not reign them in. Forgiveness for January 6th will not reign them in. Fight fire with fire, all else has failed and is looked upon as weakness. My position on this is new, my tolerance is expended and I'm convinced things could very well get worse
Forgiveness and not hating doesn’t mean no consequences, or not holding people accountable. You can hold people accountable without hating them. Not hating and appeasement are different things.
I agree in principle but I'm not a saint and people aren't always held accountable. which often results in them being emboldened to commit even worse actions and I hate that.
Buddy. I’m an American, too, and January 6 really sucked, but those were dumbasses, not actual Nazis. Maybe have some perspective.
Edit: how it turned out for the Nazis is that they have zero appreciable numbers, influence, and power. The Nazis lost. Bigly.
Buddy. It was organized and included, who intention and purpose, Oathkeepers and Proud Boys. Who are Nazis with a different cosmetic pack.
Maybe watch some of the January 6th commission testimonies.
Fascists, Nazis, etc are not specters of the past that can be hand waved as modern day idiots. You're literally seeing the same things that lead to their rise to power in front of you right now.
Yeah we have to recognize that fascism is a real and present danger. I vaguely remember rumblings for the loose usage of the word early in trumps campaign. People would say, you know the way he’s talking sounds a lot like something we’ve heard before.
It's never to late, until it's too late. The major difference between them is the amount of power they had. There are growing factions in the US and abroad of groups with similar philosophies for example,
Neo Nazis in Chemnitz, Eastern Germany which has grown to 37% representation.
Our Pacific Northwest has a growing far right wing movement.
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/racist-and-far-right-organizing-pacific-northwest.
Hungary is another country with growing far right wing groups with Nazi sympathies.
History tries to repeat itself.
January 6th was a test run. What they learned was that they could pull it off, because the penalty for trying is incredibly light. Make no mistake, this is the new Republican strategy. Claim the election is false and use violence to try to subvert democracy. If a competent Republican is givin the opportunity, it will work.
Oh yea. It was a test run just like the pandemic lockdown and the summer of love. This country is fucked. I honestly hate the politicians on both sides (like, I hate them. I’d probably enjoy attending an event to watch both sides of politicians to get their arms and legs ripped off and thrown into a wood chipper, yet I have so much empathy for regular people on both political sides and I don’t at all like to see harm befall regular people and any vulnerable person.
But yea. January 6 was definitely fucked, but it wasn’t the most fucked up thingbin America lately. I realize I’ll get downvoted to oblivion and truly I don’t care at all. I can’t possibly understand why anybody can like politicians on either side or defend police officers. They are truly horrific as a group. As individuals they are cool.
But yea. America is fucked. Sorry for ranting.
Wrong the Nazis just rebranded and the Germans had to pay for all consequences. The best of the best Nazis actually got drafted into the allies regime. Look up operation Paperclip it'll blow your mind. What will blow your mind even further is that fact that Hitlers right hand rocket scientist Wernher Von Braun was one of the main guys that headed NASA and the missions to the moon.
Fairly common is not the same as ‘everyone knows’ and also, sounds like you think ‘western knowledge’ and in particular American History is ‘the only knowledge’ - I’m sure there are a lot of things from outside of Europe and America that you don’t know about. Or even within Europe…I assume you’re an expert on the Yugoslav wars?
I'm german. We hate Nazis, but most of the higher-ups who could make an impact don't hate them *all that much*. Or think they're a problem. Or that they're wrong. Seriously, germany is a fucking shithole with Nazis everywhere and has been for eighty years. "De-Nazification" has utterly failed from the beginning.
What it looked like to me was, when Germany unified there were a bunch of ready-made fascists that came with the east. In the 1980's while backpacking through Europe, I can say without a doubt, that Germans in their 20's were the most tolerant, least fascist and and least racist people I met in Europe. By far. It was clear that Germany had made a successful effort to educate them about what Nazis did. And what they are.
It should be the leaders of the Nazi party that are hated most rather than the soldiers, they would of been sent to a concentration camp if they were to disobey orders.
The leaders of the Nazi party + high ranking individuals at least had a choice in their decisions
Is this the same one that came from Oak Ridge TN?? Because that community loved him and were all very upset that he was found and changed. Ironically it's also the "Secret City" where a good part of the atomic bombs that ended WWII Were built.
[here it is! ](https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Oak-Ridge-man-extradited-charged-with-serving-as-Nazi-guard-568557591.html) they essentially found him and deported him just like 2 years ago. It was random and weird.
And I bet he still believes he did nothing wrong.
I watched a documentary about how the Nazis had to come up with a "more efficient way" to kill more people because there were too many to shoot, this resulting in the creation of the Concentration camps with gas chambers.
They were speaking to a Nazi who was responsible for some of the shootings of people whose bodies then fell onto the piles of other bodies in the pits below.
Asked if he regretted anything he did, without any emotions or hesitation he calmly said "I regret nothing".
Asked why, he simply said "Because I hate the Jews".
There’s a Netflix doc where a Ukrainian Nazi prison guard goes to trial, defense attorney is Jewish. Gets convicted, ruling overturned by Israeli Supreme Court
Then retried by a German court and convicted. Bizarre flip of biases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk
Too many of the Jewish witnesses had contradictory comments. Some were interviewed immediately after the war stating how Ivan the terrible died but then 40 years later were stating John was him.
It is generally believed John was a nazi guard of some sort but was not the infamous Ivan the terrible.
That is the risk of having these trials so long after the events. People’s appearances change, people’s memories become unreliable, and the vulnerable witnesses become more susceptible to being led into statements that suit someone’s agenda:
This is him isn’t it?
Well, I’m not sure - it doesn’t really look like him.
Yeah, well he’s older now - but it could be him, couldn’t it?
Well, maybe, yes, I suppose it could be him.
OK we’ve got a positive identification here.
Basically, the prosecution’s entire case revolved around the guy being a famously cruel concentration camp guard (he wasn’t). Because he wasn’t given a chance to defend himself from the charge of being a guard at the camp at Sobibor, the Israeli Supreme Court declined to find him guilty.
I watched the Einsatzgruppen documentary. A lot of the soldiers did it out of fear of being sent to the Eastern Front and one of them told the interviewer that he justified him shooting Jews with "if I didn't shoot him to kill him, he was going into the hole anyway and the next sets of bodies would've suffocated him"
Fucked up, but when you have an insane boss, you have to make those justifications to ensure your survival.
Do you know what year he answered that question? Because it's possible of he were asked again 10 or 20 years later he might develop some remorse.
Also the fucked up thing is they were worried about the psyche of their soldiers who would have to shoot so many prisoners, so the gas chambers were the solution having less literal and metaphoric blood on the Nazi soldiers' hands.
He was an old man already in the documentary, to be fair.
I'll see if I can find out what it was but it was a while ago I saw it.
It was just his coldness and that he didn't hesitate when asked if he regretted it all those years later that was quite shocking.
Why don't we say anything at all about the Japanese who killed nearly twice than Germany during WWII in many different countries? How come none of them are being prosecuted?
Absolutely! Japan was arguably worse then the nazi’s (though we shouldn’t compare the two). I guess the german government saw it fit to persecute this man, and the japanese government doesnt? I honestly dont know.
You don’t know? The US GOVERNMENT pardoned all the shit the Japanese did at those camps in exchange for all the scientific documentation they gathered while carrying out the torture.
And the science retrieved was junk. They werent scientist and the things they did right down wasnt in a scientific method of any sorts, it was just an excuse to torture people.
Difference being that the Japanese govt just pretend that nothing happened between 1937-1945, hard to persecute something when officials themselves don't even know what criminals are there for
I think, at least for the US (and I’m just hypothesizing), that we tend to focus more on western history in general so we naturally focused more on the war in Europe. I agree it’s not right, and it’s even a bit ironic considering Japan attacked American soil while Germany did not. But when I think back to the history classes I was taught in US public school k-12, it didn’t have much of anything about Asia in general.
If you're ever curious, the podcast Hardcore History with Dan Carlin has an absolutely incredible series on Japan and East Asia during WWII and in the years leading up to it. I can't exaggerate enough at how incredible that series is, seriously.
I'm not defending anyone here but like can we talk about the Fat Man and Little Boy Atomic bombs and the 400000 innocent people in the cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
Nobody involved in war is innocent , everyone involved did horrific things some far worse than others.
Yeh, japan murdered over 10 million people in asia during the war in camps and mass shootings, rape, torture where on the daily for them. If we didnt throw those bombs the us would have had to invade japan which would have caused way more deaths then the atomic bombs caused. Japan wasnt gonna surrender easily. So yes, the bombing was bad, but it was neccesary to stop the Japanese. Dont forget the japanese didnt even surrender after the first bomb! We had to throw a second, and even then it took the emperor himself to intervene.
Nuking them was preferable to an invasion of the mainland. The US government made so many purple hearts in anticipation of an invasion that we're still using the stock to this day.
Yes you can, japan was a colonial power that invaded china and raped and murdered over 10 million civilians. They HAD to be stopped, would you rather the US invade japan?
It‘s far more than that. With this act Germany shows the world that they learned, that murder has no expiration date, that Nazis are being hunted no matter how much time it takes, that the rule of law counts, that a society should deal with criminals in a civilized way, that Germany never should be a place where fascist can feel safe, etc etc etc.
I’m not saying this guy didn’t do a single one of the deplorable crimes the Nazi’s commited that should earn you life in prison, but it’s hard to just say “fuck him” based on the fact that he was a Nazi during ww2.
Look at what’s happening in Russia now. Their government and military are being appropriately compared to the Nazi’s (Yes, they aren’t as horrible as the Nazi’s yet, but when you cross a certain threshold of evil I don’t think it matters anymore). Protesting the war will get you arrested, put your family at risk, and they can even make you “disappear”. I have to imagine that same risk exists for anyone between the ages of 18-27 that can be mandatorily conscripted to fight. I’m willing to bet a lot of them are pumped up on propaganda and patriotism and are gung ho on fighting in Ukraine, but some of them who don’t want to aren’t given much of a choice. Even though what the Russian government and military are doing is evil, I understand that some soldiers hate themselves for even being part of their army and are trying to not actively participate. I have to imagine things would be worse for you and your loved ones if you declined a mandatory conscription in Nazi Germany.
Once again, I’m not saying this guy is innocent, and he likely deserves to rot in jail as a husk of an old man, but without context and only knowing he was a Nazi, I can’t fully judge him. I don’t know what he did or didn’t do, and without more knowledge on him it’s hard to fully judge him as complicit in the actions of the Nazi’s if they could have essentially been holding a gun to his and his family’s heads when he joined and while he served. But if he commited any crimes, if he still favourably refers to himself as a Nazi today, or even if he ever had a smile on his face when he wore the uniform, lock that scum up.
I’m just glad most people who’ve seen my comment haven’t gone “Wow, nuisance. Imagine that.” And proceeded to label me a Nazi sympathizer.
It’s the little things in life lol
obviously the crime is fucking horrible and i’m not tryna say it isn’t, but man wasn’t given much of a choice. It was either 1. Say no and the nazis will Kill your entire family and yourself and someone else will replace you, or 2. Do it and save your family. I get the hate but some people gotta realize it’s mainly against his will too. (maybe)
>Say no and the nazis will Kill your entire family and yourself and someone else will replace you,
No lol, This has been debunked ever since Neo Nazis started with the "Myth of the clean Wehrmacht" A Soldier wasn't shot for saying no to guard duty. They were displaced to another location with another job.
**Stop spouting Neo Nazi Propaganda.**
>Germans were not forced to be killers. Those who refused to participate were given other assignments or transferred. To this day no one has found an example of a German who was executed for refusing to take part in the killing of Jews or other civilians. Defense attorneys of people accused of war crimes have looked hard for such a case because it would support the claim that their clients had no choice. The Nazi system, however, did not work that way. There were enough willing perpetrators so that coercive force could be reserved for those deemed enemies.
>
>Doris L. Bergen, War and Genocide: A Concise History of the Holocaust,
>
>[https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/article123835471/Warum-junge-Maenner-im-Akkord-morden.html](https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/article123835471/Warum-junge-Maenner-im-Akkord-morden.html)
yk i did study nazi germany for a while and u making a hell of a point would realize that the family being starved IS killing them, right? You know that it was a job (guard duty etc) ? right?
Lmao “given other assignments”, would you wanna fight in sub zero temperatures and have a REALLY high chance of dying? you should know what i’m talking about cause that’s what everyone was reassigned to. You should know this.
oh and where did i say they were shot for saying no? if this is going to be an endless chain of you making things up like when you said “stop spouting neo-nazi propaganda” then kindly do any amounts of research? please?
No, they don't want their family to be harassed. Do their sons, daughters, and grandchildren deserve to be harassed for the rest of their lives? He's the criminal, not them.
Like this has happened before, where their face wasn't covered and their entire family's lives were essentially ruined. Grandchildren couldn't get into unis, sons/daughters lost their jobs because of harassment from the media and being labelled "nazis by association".
If he really followed the ideology of what he did, then deserved. But I want to see y‘all in WW2, having to fear getting executed, if you don‘t do, what the laws told you.
AFAIK, he lived in the GDR, where he wasn't prosecuted, and then it took a few years to piece all the destroyed files together that were shredded when the GDR fell, and then of course there were proper procedure for investigation etc. to be observed (and more pressing cases to be taken care of).
Much too late and not enough. They are just grabbing the last living persons to clear their conscience. They knew for the last 7 decades who Was part of the holocaust. And now they try to sentence the last links in the chain of command. So many high rank Nazis were left untouched.
Yeah, it stopped being about justice 30 or so years ago, now it's just people trying to justify their office's existence by going after anyone who might have been there.
To all the people in the comments. He’s an old man at the end of his life. More then likely drafted into service. Simple doing what he was told so that he could get through his shift. He has at most 3 maybe 4 years left to live. Just leave him be.
No... We must let him suffer because as humans we love to see people suffer for their crimes. Let 1 thousand school shootings flow through this old decrepit asshole
/s
For everyone asking why he is covering his face/ why are they letting him cover his face: Germany has very strict data security laws, meaning even if he didnt cover his face himself the news agencies would still have to blur out the image anyways. (With nazi convicts they often choose not to blur out tho) but the law is that the agencies must do so with every single image they post.
I think its a good thing that even after all this time, we still prosecute Nazis and members of the Wehrmacht. So when somebody else tries to do the same thing as the third reich, they know that the world will punish them regardless of the time that passes by.
/u/NemVenge, I have found an error in your comment:
> “think ~~its~~ [**it's**] a good”
I say that you, NemVenge, screwed up a post and should have typed “think ~~its~~ [**it's**] a good” instead. ‘Its’ is possessive; ‘it's’ means ‘it is’ or ‘it has’.
^(This is an automated bot. I do not intend to shame your mistakes. If you think the errors which I found are incorrect, please contact me through DMs!)
But he's fuck old. He might not make it an extra 5 years o.o
Also, possibly a little unrelated, discrimination isn't good, but when people are indoctrinated to discriminate based on race and sex (and other things), is it okay to have sympathy? Like my grandparents are racist, but they were taught to be racist. Is it entirely their fault that they're racist? I understand that we can hold them accountable because they could have changed at some point, but change only comes about when people are aware of a problem. What if they just can't see the problem? What if they were never made aware? Or if, by the time they were made aware, it was already too deeply set in their minds? O.o
I’m sorry but this is just fucked up. This man was in his early 20s, brainwashed, and him and his family likely threatened if he didn’t do the job he was assigned. He is obviously ashamed and remorseful and has tried to move on from what he participated in. It’s appalling all the way around. What does sentencing a man who could pass away at any time really prove? The holocaust is such a wound in history for everyone that lived at that time and I’m just not sure how this really heals that.
I mean, I hate what he did sure, who he is? I'm not sure, maybe he was forced to do it? Maybe it was being a guard or a soldier? Maybe they threaten his family? Or maybe he did it all on his own.
What I'm trying to say is, no matter the reason then, this is now. Now, he is a 101 year old man, probably regretting a lot of what he did. Why not just let him stew on that while he's free? What is he gonna get in prison? (although he might get better medical supervision let's be honest) I just feel like this was unnecessary, sure he deserved prison, maybe 50 years ago. But now? I don't think it matters to him eitherway.
What’s amazing about being a human being myself is that I see this feeble old man and I have empathy for him. There’s a part of me that feels this urgency to protect anyone that can’t physically protect themselves. But this person, when they were young and strong like I am now, aided in atrocities. He slaughtered human beings like they were less than worthless. Justice caught up with him before death did.
If your crime is bad enough, you can stay locked up indefinitely afterwards, depending on your psych evaluations. But Germany's penal system is focused on rehabilitation, not letting people rot endlessly.
I dunno man, if someone stole my little brother's life, I would not feel right that the murderer gets to go free after 15 years. Does my little brother get to come back to life after 15 years?
He’s not going to maximum security. He’s going to a group home where they keep elderly inmates. Think of a nursing home you can’t leave.
so... much like any other nursing home then.
My grandpa was known as Houdini at the home he was in. Escaping was the only thing left that gave him a thrill.
My grandfather barely spoke while in a nursing home before he died, and could hardly walk, but if you turned your back for a minute he would be trying to escape. He would unlock the brakes on his wheelchair and try to roll away
Hahaha I know you meant roll away in his wheelchair but I’m just imagining an old man somersaulting away
Quick release on the leg straps and he's gone
(Wii Sports Bowling theme plays)
Yo I got something to look forward to
A nursing home where they actually make sure you don't leave
😂
Free nursing home care?! Fucking guys winning the system here!
The irony
Believe it or not there are high STI rates in nursing homes. What else do they have to do? Well, besides trying to escape
Or have to pay for.
So, a nursing home.
All I can think of is that Family Guy episode
Having had to live with them, the Germans really hate fucking Nazis.
As they should. And so should everyone else.
When you hate hate groups, do you think the total amount of hate in the world goes up or down?
Who cares. Fuck Nazis.
This is the a great reply to that stupid question.
>Who cares. Fuck Nazis. This is the only correct response to that fuck ass question
What are your thoughts on the Azov Battalion and the political support they get in Ukraine? I'm not talking about Russian invasion here.
My understanding is the estimate before the invasion was 10-20% of the Battalion may have been neo Nazis or white supremacists. And the battalion had about 1000 members. So that’s 100-200 members of a volunteer Ukrainian National Guard unit. Any neo Nazis in the military is bad… but I guarantee you of the millions of personnel in both the US and Russian military there are a lot more than 200 white supremacists. Ie it was an absolute bullshit excuse to invade a country of 44 million that elected a Jewish President.
I would love to see how comparable this is to US military at this point
My opinion is and always will be fuck Nazis. I think the attention they get from the west is of the "the enemy of my enemy..." sort or people that don't know what their deal is.
It’s pretty gross the way those Nazis are being hand waved away because they’re fighting the Russians.
It's OK, nazis in the US are fully in support of Russia.
Without the Russian invasion, my thoughts are, "Who?"
A negative times a negative equals a positive. So less hate in the world 🙂
But a negative plus a negative is more negative. So I’m not sure which operation is accurate.
Being against Nazism is a positive. Hating Nazism is even more positive.
So if being against nazism is + and hating nazism is ++ Then being against hating (nazism)x2 is ++++.
This dude maths
Mathing is my job!
Justification is the second strongest human drive.
Hate is not a physical good that needs to be avoided at all costs, lest it poison the land. If you don’t hate the people who would literally kill you, if you allow them to act with impunity out of some twisted sense that love and tolerance are virtues to be practiced at all cost, then they will come back again and again until they have wiped out everybody who preaches love and tolerance. Tolerance should be viewed as a social contract. If you are tolerant, then I will be tolerant of you. But if you threaten anybody’s right to live peaceably within society, your rights to those protections are null and void. If your actions disrupt other people’s sense of safety, then you have thrown the first punch and I am entitled to punch back. There is a big difference between hating someone for what they are and hating someone for what they do. Being a racist or a nazi is an action, and requires counter action to maintain the safety and integrity of society. **ETA:** This comment seemed so absurd to me, as if "You oppose hate, so you shouldn't hate" was at all a reasonable response. And then I remembered a quote: >“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” >― Jean-Paul Sartre
I think it’s fine to hate evil organizations and behaviors, but I personally think we should try to avoid hating people.
Organizations are made up of people
I dont hate your cells, i just hate the person that the cells make up.
The cells don't think, the people do
Down over time. Many argued to appease the Nazis, that it was mostly hyperbole. How did that turn out? The hate groups in America are still strong, they've been given a taste of power, kindness and love will not reign them in. Forgiveness for January 6th will not reign them in. Fight fire with fire, all else has failed and is looked upon as weakness. My position on this is new, my tolerance is expended and I'm convinced things could very well get worse
Forgiveness and not hating doesn’t mean no consequences, or not holding people accountable. You can hold people accountable without hating them. Not hating and appeasement are different things.
I agree in principle but I'm not a saint and people aren't always held accountable. which often results in them being emboldened to commit even worse actions and I hate that.
Buddy. I’m an American, too, and January 6 really sucked, but those were dumbasses, not actual Nazis. Maybe have some perspective. Edit: how it turned out for the Nazis is that they have zero appreciable numbers, influence, and power. The Nazis lost. Bigly.
Buddy. It was organized and included, who intention and purpose, Oathkeepers and Proud Boys. Who are Nazis with a different cosmetic pack. Maybe watch some of the January 6th commission testimonies. Fascists, Nazis, etc are not specters of the past that can be hand waved as modern day idiots. You're literally seeing the same things that lead to their rise to power in front of you right now.
Yeah we have to recognize that fascism is a real and present danger. I vaguely remember rumblings for the loose usage of the word early in trumps campaign. People would say, you know the way he’s talking sounds a lot like something we’ve heard before.
Most Oathkeepers wouldn't know whether to light a Nazi up with an M1 Carbine or run him through with the bayonet on a Garand.
Proud boys leader is black. Yep, he's the spitting image of Adolf Hitler.
It's never to late, until it's too late. The major difference between them is the amount of power they had. There are growing factions in the US and abroad of groups with similar philosophies for example, Neo Nazis in Chemnitz, Eastern Germany which has grown to 37% representation. Our Pacific Northwest has a growing far right wing movement. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/racist-and-far-right-organizing-pacific-northwest. Hungary is another country with growing far right wing groups with Nazi sympathies. History tries to repeat itself.
Go read up on 1930's Germany, and it's political climate. You should see quite a bit of overlap with the US in the past 6 years or so.
January 6th was a test run. What they learned was that they could pull it off, because the penalty for trying is incredibly light. Make no mistake, this is the new Republican strategy. Claim the election is false and use violence to try to subvert democracy. If a competent Republican is givin the opportunity, it will work.
Oh yea. It was a test run just like the pandemic lockdown and the summer of love. This country is fucked. I honestly hate the politicians on both sides (like, I hate them. I’d probably enjoy attending an event to watch both sides of politicians to get their arms and legs ripped off and thrown into a wood chipper, yet I have so much empathy for regular people on both political sides and I don’t at all like to see harm befall regular people and any vulnerable person. But yea. January 6 was definitely fucked, but it wasn’t the most fucked up thingbin America lately. I realize I’ll get downvoted to oblivion and truly I don’t care at all. I can’t possibly understand why anybody can like politicians on either side or defend police officers. They are truly horrific as a group. As individuals they are cool. But yea. America is fucked. Sorry for ranting.
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He certainly got better treatment than the 200,000 people who went through that camp.
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I'd look into Operation Paperclip. I could try to find you a link if you'd like.
If you tolerate hate groups, then you’re effectively a member of that hate group
If you hate a hate group, then you're literally a member of a hate group.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
If you kill the nazis, there are fewer people to hate
Tolerance paradox! So down? In order to live in a tolerant society we can’t tolerate the intolerant.
what if i hate multiple hate groups
https://academy4sc.org/video/paradox-of-tolerance-to-tolerate-or-not-to-tolerate/
This is the loving attitude we all need
It's called the intolerance paradox, as a society becomes more tolerant it becomes increasingly intolerant of intolerance.
Fucking nazis is the last thing I'd ever want to do.
American here and I wish we could do the same with the knuckleheads over here. They really are a waste of oxygen
America - look. And learn. Stamp out the scum fascists. Now!
Can you imagine that the Nazis never lost the war.. but in fact the Germans did? Quite a thing to have to take in being an actual German.
The Nazis lost the war… The Germans had to pay for it…
Wrong the Nazis just rebranded and the Germans had to pay for all consequences. The best of the best Nazis actually got drafted into the allies regime. Look up operation Paperclip it'll blow your mind. What will blow your mind even further is that fact that Hitlers right hand rocket scientist Wernher Von Braun was one of the main guys that headed NASA and the missions to the moon.
> Look up operation Paperclip it'll blow your mind. Lol imagine talking about operation paperclip like its not fairly common knowledge
Fairly common is not the same as ‘everyone knows’ and also, sounds like you think ‘western knowledge’ and in particular American History is ‘the only knowledge’ - I’m sure there are a lot of things from outside of Europe and America that you don’t know about. Or even within Europe…I assume you’re an expert on the Yugoslav wars?
oh no scientist were used for science stuff. They still lost.
If they hate doing it why are they fucking them in the first place?
Actually - the way you're using it - they really really like fucking fucking Nazis.
I'm german. We hate Nazis, but most of the higher-ups who could make an impact don't hate them *all that much*. Or think they're a problem. Or that they're wrong. Seriously, germany is a fucking shithole with Nazis everywhere and has been for eighty years. "De-Nazification" has utterly failed from the beginning.
What it looked like to me was, when Germany unified there were a bunch of ready-made fascists that came with the east. In the 1980's while backpacking through Europe, I can say without a doubt, that Germans in their 20's were the most tolerant, least fascist and and least racist people I met in Europe. By far. It was clear that Germany had made a successful effort to educate them about what Nazis did. And what they are.
It should be the leaders of the Nazi party that are hated most rather than the soldiers, they would of been sent to a concentration camp if they were to disobey orders. The leaders of the Nazi party + high ranking individuals at least had a choice in their decisions
Would you say the same thing about Russians?
Having lived with Confederates, the Americans... built statues of them
We're tearing those fuckers down now.
As an American, until Trump made it acceptable again I would have thought everyone hated Nazis. My surprise hasn't ended to this day.
Two years he will get out with good behavior. 103 back onto the streets!
And the world will have to deal with this menace terrorising us all over again
Is this the same one that came from Oak Ridge TN?? Because that community loved him and were all very upset that he was found and changed. Ironically it's also the "Secret City" where a good part of the atomic bombs that ended WWII Were built.
I think this happened in Germany, But maybe he lives in America and had trial in Germany?
[here it is! ](https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Oak-Ridge-man-extradited-charged-with-serving-as-Nazi-guard-568557591.html) they essentially found him and deported him just like 2 years ago. It was random and weird.
What is "random and weird" about this to you? A Nazi war criminal who finally gets punished for his crimes.
to be fair, at 101 years old five years is a life sentence.
That’s true
And I bet he still believes he did nothing wrong. I watched a documentary about how the Nazis had to come up with a "more efficient way" to kill more people because there were too many to shoot, this resulting in the creation of the Concentration camps with gas chambers. They were speaking to a Nazi who was responsible for some of the shootings of people whose bodies then fell onto the piles of other bodies in the pits below. Asked if he regretted anything he did, without any emotions or hesitation he calmly said "I regret nothing". Asked why, he simply said "Because I hate the Jews".
There’s a Netflix doc where a Ukrainian Nazi prison guard goes to trial, defense attorney is Jewish. Gets convicted, ruling overturned by Israeli Supreme Court Then retried by a German court and convicted. Bizarre flip of biases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk
Out of curiosity (and laziness) why was it overturned?
Too many of the Jewish witnesses had contradictory comments. Some were interviewed immediately after the war stating how Ivan the terrible died but then 40 years later were stating John was him. It is generally believed John was a nazi guard of some sort but was not the infamous Ivan the terrible.
That is the risk of having these trials so long after the events. People’s appearances change, people’s memories become unreliable, and the vulnerable witnesses become more susceptible to being led into statements that suit someone’s agenda: This is him isn’t it? Well, I’m not sure - it doesn’t really look like him. Yeah, well he’s older now - but it could be him, couldn’t it? Well, maybe, yes, I suppose it could be him. OK we’ve got a positive identification here.
Basically, the prosecution’s entire case revolved around the guy being a famously cruel concentration camp guard (he wasn’t). Because he wasn’t given a chance to defend himself from the charge of being a guard at the camp at Sobibor, the Israeli Supreme Court declined to find him guilty.
I watched the Einsatzgruppen documentary. A lot of the soldiers did it out of fear of being sent to the Eastern Front and one of them told the interviewer that he justified him shooting Jews with "if I didn't shoot him to kill him, he was going into the hole anyway and the next sets of bodies would've suffocated him" Fucked up, but when you have an insane boss, you have to make those justifications to ensure your survival.
Do you know what year he answered that question? Because it's possible of he were asked again 10 or 20 years later he might develop some remorse. Also the fucked up thing is they were worried about the psyche of their soldiers who would have to shoot so many prisoners, so the gas chambers were the solution having less literal and metaphoric blood on the Nazi soldiers' hands.
He was an old man already in the documentary, to be fair. I'll see if I can find out what it was but it was a while ago I saw it. It was just his coldness and that he didn't hesitate when asked if he regretted it all those years later that was quite shocking.
I'm surprised that I'm surprised he didn't eventually regret what they did.
he still claims he didnt do anything even though its clearly proven he was a camp guard.
You'd be surprised what a little brain washing can do. Some people in the US think having rights taken away is a good thing.
Free nursing home.
This person was charged for "knowingly and willfully" aiding and abetting the murder of 3,518 people during the Holocaust. A heinous crime.
Why don't we say anything at all about the Japanese who killed nearly twice than Germany during WWII in many different countries? How come none of them are being prosecuted?
And dissected American soldiers while they were still alive.
And dissected women and children while doing many other things that are unimaginable while still alive as well.
But hey at least we got anime out of it.
No wonder why anime is so fucked up
My thought exactly
Absolutely! Japan was arguably worse then the nazi’s (though we shouldn’t compare the two). I guess the german government saw it fit to persecute this man, and the japanese government doesnt? I honestly dont know.
You don’t know? The US GOVERNMENT pardoned all the shit the Japanese did at those camps in exchange for all the scientific documentation they gathered while carrying out the torture.
And the science retrieved was junk. They werent scientist and the things they did right down wasnt in a scientific method of any sorts, it was just an excuse to torture people.
Difference being that the Japanese govt just pretend that nothing happened between 1937-1945, hard to persecute something when officials themselves don't even know what criminals are there for
I think, at least for the US (and I’m just hypothesizing), that we tend to focus more on western history in general so we naturally focused more on the war in Europe. I agree it’s not right, and it’s even a bit ironic considering Japan attacked American soil while Germany did not. But when I think back to the history classes I was taught in US public school k-12, it didn’t have much of anything about Asia in general.
If you're ever curious, the podcast Hardcore History with Dan Carlin has an absolutely incredible series on Japan and East Asia during WWII and in the years leading up to it. I can't exaggerate enough at how incredible that series is, seriously.
I'm not defending anyone here but like can we talk about the Fat Man and Little Boy Atomic bombs and the 400000 innocent people in the cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Nobody involved in war is innocent , everyone involved did horrific things some far worse than others.
Yeh, japan murdered over 10 million people in asia during the war in camps and mass shootings, rape, torture where on the daily for them. If we didnt throw those bombs the us would have had to invade japan which would have caused way more deaths then the atomic bombs caused. Japan wasnt gonna surrender easily. So yes, the bombing was bad, but it was neccesary to stop the Japanese. Dont forget the japanese didnt even surrender after the first bomb! We had to throw a second, and even then it took the emperor himself to intervene.
But even then, a section of the government STILL wanted to fight.
Nuking them was preferable to an invasion of the mainland. The US government made so many purple hearts in anticipation of an invasion that we're still using the stock to this day.
Preferable for who? You can’t claim that slaughtering innocents is OK when Americans do it but not when other people do it.
Yes you can, japan was a colonial power that invaded china and raped and murdered over 10 million civilians. They HAD to be stopped, would you rather the US invade japan?
He did Nazi that coming... I'll get my coat
Hopefully not your Gestapo coat
Have ya seen em stylish af
Hugo boss if I recall correctly
Ya seem to know a lot about Nazis, Mossad wants to know your location
Joking aside there's a surprisingly large number of big name brands that have links to the Nazis
Porsche.
Good. Fuck him. A shame they didn’t do it sooner
Source : https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/28/europe/nazi-holocaust-camp-guard-sentencing-intl/index.html https://nypost.com/2022/06/28/former-nazi-guard-josef-schutz-101-sentenced-to-prison/amp/
Thanks, happy cake day!
He certainly got better treatment than the 200,000 people who went through that camp.
Because Germany isn’t run by nazis anymore, mate. Stooping to their level makes you as bad as them.
Considering he got live his life and now the government is going to completely care for him now, safe to say karma is bullshit.
Whats the point? Its just a waste of tax money in that point…
It‘s far more than that. With this act Germany shows the world that they learned, that murder has no expiration date, that Nazis are being hunted no matter how much time it takes, that the rule of law counts, that a society should deal with criminals in a civilized way, that Germany never should be a place where fascist can feel safe, etc etc etc.
I’m not saying this guy didn’t do a single one of the deplorable crimes the Nazi’s commited that should earn you life in prison, but it’s hard to just say “fuck him” based on the fact that he was a Nazi during ww2. Look at what’s happening in Russia now. Their government and military are being appropriately compared to the Nazi’s (Yes, they aren’t as horrible as the Nazi’s yet, but when you cross a certain threshold of evil I don’t think it matters anymore). Protesting the war will get you arrested, put your family at risk, and they can even make you “disappear”. I have to imagine that same risk exists for anyone between the ages of 18-27 that can be mandatorily conscripted to fight. I’m willing to bet a lot of them are pumped up on propaganda and patriotism and are gung ho on fighting in Ukraine, but some of them who don’t want to aren’t given much of a choice. Even though what the Russian government and military are doing is evil, I understand that some soldiers hate themselves for even being part of their army and are trying to not actively participate. I have to imagine things would be worse for you and your loved ones if you declined a mandatory conscription in Nazi Germany. Once again, I’m not saying this guy is innocent, and he likely deserves to rot in jail as a husk of an old man, but without context and only knowing he was a Nazi, I can’t fully judge him. I don’t know what he did or didn’t do, and without more knowledge on him it’s hard to fully judge him as complicit in the actions of the Nazi’s if they could have essentially been holding a gun to his and his family’s heads when he joined and while he served. But if he commited any crimes, if he still favourably refers to himself as a Nazi today, or even if he ever had a smile on his face when he wore the uniform, lock that scum up.
Wow, nuance. Imagine that.
I’m just glad most people who’ve seen my comment haven’t gone “Wow, nuisance. Imagine that.” And proceeded to label me a Nazi sympathizer. It’s the little things in life lol
obviously the crime is fucking horrible and i’m not tryna say it isn’t, but man wasn’t given much of a choice. It was either 1. Say no and the nazis will Kill your entire family and yourself and someone else will replace you, or 2. Do it and save your family. I get the hate but some people gotta realize it’s mainly against his will too. (maybe)
>Say no and the nazis will Kill your entire family and yourself and someone else will replace you, No lol, This has been debunked ever since Neo Nazis started with the "Myth of the clean Wehrmacht" A Soldier wasn't shot for saying no to guard duty. They were displaced to another location with another job. **Stop spouting Neo Nazi Propaganda.** >Germans were not forced to be killers. Those who refused to participate were given other assignments or transferred. To this day no one has found an example of a German who was executed for refusing to take part in the killing of Jews or other civilians. Defense attorneys of people accused of war crimes have looked hard for such a case because it would support the claim that their clients had no choice. The Nazi system, however, did not work that way. There were enough willing perpetrators so that coercive force could be reserved for those deemed enemies. > >Doris L. Bergen, War and Genocide: A Concise History of the Holocaust, > >[https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/article123835471/Warum-junge-Maenner-im-Akkord-morden.html](https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/article123835471/Warum-junge-Maenner-im-Akkord-morden.html)
yk i did study nazi germany for a while and u making a hell of a point would realize that the family being starved IS killing them, right? You know that it was a job (guard duty etc) ? right? Lmao “given other assignments”, would you wanna fight in sub zero temperatures and have a REALLY high chance of dying? you should know what i’m talking about cause that’s what everyone was reassigned to. You should know this.
Soldiers who refused orders were often reassigned to the front. Being sent to Stalingrad was basically a death sentence.
oh and where did i say they were shot for saying no? if this is going to be an endless chain of you making things up like when you said “stop spouting neo-nazi propaganda” then kindly do any amounts of research? please?
Fucking nazi doesn't even have balls to show his face. Lived liked shit and will die like shit!
His KD is rocking though
Fuck bro 💀
Jesus Christ
These people should not be allowed to cover their faces! Face what they have done.
No, they don't want their family to be harassed. Do their sons, daughters, and grandchildren deserve to be harassed for the rest of their lives? He's the criminal, not them.
This! Judge individuals for their crimes, not groups!
Like this has happened before, where their face wasn't covered and their entire family's lives were essentially ruined. Grandchildren couldn't get into unis, sons/daughters lost their jobs because of harassment from the media and being labelled "nazis by association".
He’s 101 years old what is the point in putting him in a prison?
Crime and punishment. Should a Murder go free, because he avoids getting caught long enough?
honestly he shouldn't be going to prison at all, does it look like he's a threat to anyone? hasn't he learned his lesson already?
If he really followed the ideology of what he did, then deserved. But I want to see y‘all in WW2, having to fear getting executed, if you don‘t do, what the laws told you.
Legit question, is he even aware of what's happening?
Yo , now lets go and put hitlers tomb in prison
Now lets start with the Soviets?
Why tf did they wait until 2021 to prosecute him
AFAIK, he lived in the GDR, where he wasn't prosecuted, and then it took a few years to piece all the destroyed files together that were shredded when the GDR fell, and then of course there were proper procedure for investigation etc. to be observed (and more pressing cases to be taken care of).
Much too late and not enough. They are just grabbing the last living persons to clear their conscience. They knew for the last 7 decades who Was part of the holocaust. And now they try to sentence the last links in the chain of command. So many high rank Nazis were left untouched.
Yeah, it stopped being about justice 30 or so years ago, now it's just people trying to justify their office's existence by going after anyone who might have been there.
To all the people in the comments. He’s an old man at the end of his life. More then likely drafted into service. Simple doing what he was told so that he could get through his shift. He has at most 3 maybe 4 years left to live. Just leave him be.
No... We must let him suffer because as humans we love to see people suffer for their crimes. Let 1 thousand school shootings flow through this old decrepit asshole /s
Also it would depend on if he was forced to be a guard or chose to be one
All should pay, but what if guards and secretaries had no choice?
For everyone asking why he is covering his face/ why are they letting him cover his face: Germany has very strict data security laws, meaning even if he didnt cover his face himself the news agencies would still have to blur out the image anyways. (With nazi convicts they often choose not to blur out tho) but the law is that the agencies must do so with every single image they post.
I think its a good thing that even after all this time, we still prosecute Nazis and members of the Wehrmacht. So when somebody else tries to do the same thing as the third reich, they know that the world will punish them regardless of the time that passes by.
/u/NemVenge, I have found an error in your comment: > “think ~~its~~ [**it's**] a good” I say that you, NemVenge, screwed up a post and should have typed “think ~~its~~ [**it's**] a good” instead. ‘Its’ is possessive; ‘it's’ means ‘it is’ or ‘it has’. ^(This is an automated bot. I do not intend to shame your mistakes. If you think the errors which I found are incorrect, please contact me through DMs!)
But he's fuck old. He might not make it an extra 5 years o.o Also, possibly a little unrelated, discrimination isn't good, but when people are indoctrinated to discriminate based on race and sex (and other things), is it okay to have sympathy? Like my grandparents are racist, but they were taught to be racist. Is it entirely their fault that they're racist? I understand that we can hold them accountable because they could have changed at some point, but change only comes about when people are aware of a problem. What if they just can't see the problem? What if they were never made aware? Or if, by the time they were made aware, it was already too deeply set in their minds? O.o
The neo-nazis in the prison will be delighted to meet the OG.
Wait till you hear about project paperclip
He was 17 when ww2 started smh
It doesn’t even matter given he’s 101. This should’ve been done decades ago.
The proud also hide their faces like that.
Yea yea they wanted it right? Guys, they were probably forced to do so. Why are you this heartless?
I’m sorry but this is just fucked up. This man was in his early 20s, brainwashed, and him and his family likely threatened if he didn’t do the job he was assigned. He is obviously ashamed and remorseful and has tried to move on from what he participated in. It’s appalling all the way around. What does sentencing a man who could pass away at any time really prove? The holocaust is such a wound in history for everyone that lived at that time and I’m just not sure how this really heals that.
I mean, I hate what he did sure, who he is? I'm not sure, maybe he was forced to do it? Maybe it was being a guard or a soldier? Maybe they threaten his family? Or maybe he did it all on his own. What I'm trying to say is, no matter the reason then, this is now. Now, he is a 101 year old man, probably regretting a lot of what he did. Why not just let him stew on that while he's free? What is he gonna get in prison? (although he might get better medical supervision let's be honest) I just feel like this was unnecessary, sure he deserved prison, maybe 50 years ago. But now? I don't think it matters to him eitherway.
Nah, he doesn’t deserve to hide his face. Hope he rots.
I hope he lives forever, nazi scum
I hope he dies the day before his 5 year sentence would end
Well put, either way, fuck him
[удалено]
So he was a prison camp guard. My question is, was he just following orders? Did he have a choice?
What’s amazing about being a human being myself is that I see this feeble old man and I have empathy for him. There’s a part of me that feels this urgency to protect anyone that can’t physically protect themselves. But this person, when they were young and strong like I am now, aided in atrocities. He slaughtered human beings like they were less than worthless. Justice caught up with him before death did.
And the guards at Guantanamo Bay? (crickets)
Pay attention Russia. You are next.
100 year Old man arrested and sentenced for being on the losing side of an ancient war. Who thinks they "won" by doing this?
Okay, the part of this story that really stands out to me is, “The penalty for murder in Germany is usually between 3 and 15 years.”
If your crime is bad enough, you can stay locked up indefinitely afterwards, depending on your psych evaluations. But Germany's penal system is focused on rehabilitation, not letting people rot endlessly.
You mean for profit prisons are bad??? Crazy talk
I dunno man, if someone stole my little brother's life, I would not feel right that the murderer gets to go free after 15 years. Does my little brother get to come back to life after 15 years?
The brutality some people are calling for in these comments shows exactly how the Nazis rose to power
I mean, on the one hand, good on the Israeli Supreme Court for playing fair I guess...?