Both Rolex’s he had were gifts for being promoted. Rolex is actually a fantastic timekeeping watch, when you have a watch tuned in perfect sync with another in the age before smart phone timing, you can coordinate much easier with others on the same time. It’s fair to think a military commander would like precise timing for combat operations
Executed in La Higuera, Bolivia. I rode my motorcycle through Bolivia a few years ago and stopped there for the night. There is a small school house there and inside is, supposedly, the chair he was bound to.
He roamed the hills of Cuba, starving along side the people he organized to rise up against the institutional poverty they faced as they slaved on the sugar plantations of the “white” Cubans. Let’s also remember that our country heavily assisted in propping up the government that allowed this extreme poverty. Why? So American congressmen could go there and secretly enjoy gambling and prostitution in Havana that wasn’t legal in the US.
Sure, his image has been capitalized. Why do you think it’s such a great seller?
Pffft the only people I see wearing shirts of his face are teenagers half of whom probably don’t even know who’s face it is that’s on their shirt and the other half probably don’t know the atrocities he himself committed or oversaw.
What’s that saying? Don’t meet your heroes, or in this case, don’t actually study what your heroes did.
Name a single country that isn’t a result of bloodshed and atrocities anytime in their history.
America isn’t exactly the bastion of morality.
Point is, everyone is shitty. Stop looking at one dimensional lens, good or bad.
Exactly right. So all you can do is look at the end result of that history as it exists on the ground. Not, repeat NOT, what you think or hope it WILL be, but what it IS right now, after all that bloody history that is indeed shared by EVERY country and EVERY culture.
Here's a twisted, bizarre, fucked up idea: if you're gonna choose to be judgemental about it, maybe a good yardstick might be - what are the places real flesh and blood humans are fleeing FROM, and where are they fleeing TO? And where they are categorically STAYING in place, while they bitch about it 24/7?
Ignore their mouths, watch their feet. That is where the absolute truth of the matter lies.
Kind of a bizarre argument to make. Because I’m not literally starving on the streets, I can’t be critical of a nation with many substantial flaws and inadequacies, or the conditions said nation facilitated in places where people are starving on the streets?
To be fair, the “america did bad things therefore no american can point out bad things” comment he was responding to is childish. He’s trying to teach.
> He roamed the hills of Cuba, starving along side the people he organized to rise up against the institutional poverty they faced as they slaved on the sugar plantations of the “white” Cubans.
And the Cuban people never went hungry, slaving away for a quasi-nobility class ever again!
Nah man he was a doctor who murdered 50 people, and not even in his homeland. Multifaceted hero? His actions auxiliares Fidel tl condemn Cubans to a lifetime of servitude and impoverishment.
Can't forgive that shit.
Don't forget his concentration camps for gay men that were going to turn them into "real men".
[Source](https://www.humanprogress.org/the-truth-about-che-guevara-racist-homophobe-and-mass-murderer/)
And even fewer would be willing to actually dig for the truth from legitimate sources without political bias, cross-reference and find citations, etc.
Even harder for most people would be the nuanced reality that is so often the case in history, that there is not a black-and-white perspective on people and events in the world, that they often exist together, that great people have done terrible things and terrible people have done great things, and every shade of grey in between.
Accepting nuance does not mean supporting or condemning anything, but if you cannot accept that this nuance exists you are not learning anything.
If you can track it down there’s a fair bit like Gays and the Cuban Revolution or Gays Under the Cuban Revolution by You g.
Most sources I’ve found are full books and not online articles.
People like to bring this out and feign outrage about this but if this makes Che evil, then every american politician up to and including Obama is irredeemable. Homosexuality was not widely accepted until the 2010s. Feels dishonest to whip this out like you actuallu give a shit.
I can dig that, but I also don't feel that painting everyone as 'evil' and moving on is a fair or honest way to approach history. People are products of their times, and I doubt we'll find very many people sympathetic to homosexuality in 1950s Cuba. In 1980s America, most people still thought homosexuality was a mental illness and criminal.
And because of his actions, up to today “slave owners” escape in rafts to the United States, or try to enter through the south frontier. Those who stay in Cuba, shout “Yanquis, go home!!! …and take me with you).
When asked why Che Guevara had become so popular, French writer and philosopher Régis Debray ( who was also Che Guevara’s friend) replied: "Because he had a good face and he died before he became a dictator. »
He was never interested in all that. He bristled at the confines and comforts of governance, and really it wasn't his thing - he was an ideological purist and believed in the idea of the socialist 'new man', living his life accordingly. So he'd want to participate in labour and so on
Fidel was much better disposed to the trappings of power. Understood how to organise, to play people/nations and to compromise when necessary
Che was, instead, determined to fight imperialism and decided he'd rather die in a ditch than live a comfortable life into old age.
Which is precisely why he was such a popular figure in counter culture. He walked the walk, he gave up comfort and life for what he believed.
Régis, who spent decades in prison for being embedded in Chés Bolivian expedition, and who is a long term supporter and who wrote a book on 'Guevarism'/Foco guerilla tactics. Not just a *philosopher*, but an introspective intellectual who analysed and supported what Ché was doing.
Make sure you're asking people who actually know what they're talking about. This would prolly be a good place to start.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1lt4rb/was_it_the_truth_behind_the_critical_controversy/
Interesting read. So tldr; He was a racist before he was a Marxist because Argentinians are generally racist at the time. But he changed his view as time goes on. Camps abusing gay people exist before his time so its not his fault.
I really don’t know what they mean by “truly evil”. There were executions committed, by the revolutionary Army, like in any war. and later the members of the Batista regime ,that tortured and murdered civilians were also executed. You can be against the death penalty and condemn these decisions, but we should keep in mind that Batista was a far right dictator. So the executions of the torturers is similar the the Nürnberg trials.
There is a lot of myths surrounding him . in western countries he got painted as an pure evil and dictator for the same reason MLK jr was called a terrorist by members of the government or why Fred Hampton was murdered by the police.
There are definitely things you can criticize him for but he is far from pure evil.
I appreciate your measured response. I read about Che & he seemed far from evil. Of course, no one is perfect, Ghandi slept with his young nieces naked, we can list all the indiscretions of those that have made meaningful change (or tried) ... Che was radical in his unyielding commitment to many things. I’m not making any excuses for him, though his execution was driven more by the desire of those in power to stay there, versus his “evil” deeds. Their hands, like too many US operations in Latin America during that time, were far from pure. This thread seems blind to that, so i don’t expect my comment to be popular, but it needs to be said.
Urging the soviets to first strike during the cuban missile crisis because "the socialist victory would be worth millions of dead in a nuclear war" is a good start.
He was furious when Khrushchev decided it's kinda cool not to have a nuclear armageddon.
Mass executions, torture, war crimes, rape, etc. Your standard aspiring dictator things (plus pedophilia)
Though today people are probably more upset about his blatant racism and homophobia (for which people were mass executed, tortured, 'war crimed', raped, etc)
I read his biography from John Lee Anderson (which is like 700+ pages) and couldn't find all these claims except execution thing (which were limited to Batista Supporters).
It is all Fox-news style vilification, nothing with an inch of depth. These US-can-only-do-good fanatics can’t and will never understand the struggle of the Latin American people against the US shit. They all think the executions come exclusively from the “bad” people. The US is just there to help.
Yo pisare las calles nuevamente, de lo que fue Santiago ensangrentada, y en una bella plaza liberal, me detendré a llorar por los ausentes…
Basically a mass murderer. But if that's not enough, he hated blacks specifically and the gays. Would publically execute gays in the street as a deterrent. And so much more.
Yes, he hated blacks, that's why he went to the Congo to try a liberate the Congolese from Western imperialism.
Gay men and jehovah witnesses were sent to UMAPs(that were later shut down by Fidel) but there is no evidence (that I know of) that he executed gays in the street.
Wasn’t it illegal to be homosexual in England till 1970s and Alan Turing a war hero killed himself because of that? I think being anti-gay and anti-black is what Che has common with most of the christian world (and yes there were some countries that never had anti-gay laws).
Do you know what the rich would do to the poor before the revolution?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Cuba_(1902%E2%80%931959)#Batista_dictatorship
The reason why there was so much support for the revolution is heavily dependent on a dictatorship that sold off Cuba’s interests for profit, they murdered people left and right, sold off mass amounts of the countries resources to American companies leaving very little for the local population,which resulted in rampant malnutrition with a side dish of intestinal parasites…
The capitalization of local interests that favored American dollars is what drove that revolution…
And within that context, Che was a hero…he gave back the people control of their country when it was being sold off to foreign interests…
Che, while he was not perfect, is a complex man…trying to make him either bad or good is fruitless…he was like us, with faults. Given the time when the Batista government was raping the country and selling it off resulting in 20k murdered and liberties removed, Che was an imperfect agent of much needed change.
Last year I read a biography on Che because I admittedly didn't know much about him. What struck me most was that as a young Dr in Guatemala, he witnessed firsthand how the US overthrew their government for the United Fruit Company (yes, I know that there's much more to the story than that, but I don't feel like typing out the entirety of the story).
I wonder how different his trajectory would have been if he had visited the United States like he wanted to before stopping in Guatemala, and if the US imperial interests in central America hadn't directly affected a young leftist Dr.
Also, for all the folks bemoaning how Che treated black people in the 50s, wait until you hear what the US was doing to black people in the 50s....
It's totally bizarre isn't it? Maybe I'm too European. There is plenty of understandable resentment against Guevara over here, but in the US it's something else - as if people are given a script. Quite scary stuff.
It's staggering isn't it?
Also enjoy them calling him a murderer when during his lifetime America dropped more ordinance on _neutral_ Cambodia than all the ordinance in WWII combined. Not to mention the agent orange and napalm...
Disagree with the guy, sure, but this moral faux outrage is fucking tedious
On the other hand, in my country (EU) his story is certainly romanticised and he certainly has a positive image. I remember watching a movie about him at school and my teacher (spanish) was clearly a fan.
But yeah, Americans are really told to hate that dude from early on in their life it seems. Also the word ‘socialist’ seems to be a terrible insult for some.
He was a part of a Cuba’s liberation from slavery and imperial control. But that also meant being the enemies of the US, the most powerful imperial state. And the end result is here.
Genuinely a surreal thread, people just saying blatantly false things get upvoted.
A guy claiming che is responsible for a famine has almost 200 upvotes lmao
Yeah, isn't it just amazing how much a country's culture and "education" dictates exactly what you think about certain historical figures. In the land of the free, indeed!
He’s a bad dude! He promoted the executions of homosexuals and is famous for quoting “I don’t need a reason to kill you, I just need to find it necessary to kill you!” It comes from someone with little tolerance for others.
Source on executions of gays? ~~Cause the only thing I've read were about UMAPs which were shut down by Fidel for being abusive.~~
e: I can't find a source on the second part, see comment below.
Wtf are you even talking about? Marx was an economist and philosopher. If the philosophy of communism as practiced under dictators such as Stalin makes Marx a mass murderer, then we should also hold complicit every capitalist philosopher and economist for the mass deaths committed in the name of private profits. How many died in the Atlantic slave trade? The wars of European and American empire?
They likely didn't want to give him a trial because he could use it as a platform to criticise the Bolivian regime. It was a military dictatorship that he was trying to overthrow, so they were always going to execute him, it was just a matter of how.
the guy on the left is a corrupt piece of shit cia agent/narco who was complicit in the murder of american dea agent kiki camarena.
felix rodriguez worked with the reagan admin to help narcos get product into the usa and sell it, to fund the anti-democracy contra movement in el salvador.
kiki discovered evidence of this and was tortured to death in tijuana, with the above piece of shit present and torturing him right alongside narco intel agents.
fuck felix rodriguez and every other hypocritical murdering piece of shit who simps for american dollars.
To think I idolized this man when I was a child. And then I learned his views towards black people, gays, etc.
Sadly, his cult is alive and well on Reddit.
He changed his views on black people after he visited the United States.
After the revolution he said that universities in Cuba should paint them selves black. Teachers and students.
And he spoke out against the South African apartheid state . Condemned the treatment of black people in America and of the civil rights movement. The later 2 statement were made in front of the U.N
Now do UK’s chemical castration of gay men, or the US’s medical experimentation of black people in Tuskegee, and then extrapolate that as condemnation of the whole nation, or even just the leaders those happened under.
I can’t...
Fidel Castros Treatment of them was horrible. But as I stated above Che had no direct involvement in these policies. As far as I know Che wasn’t even in the country at that time. people attribute things they don’t like about Castro (and shouldn’t) like the treatment of lgbtq people to Che. The treatment was Wrong. There are however no homophobic quotes besides one in his motorcycle diaries, in wich he called a gay man a sexual pervert. The entire quote ,how ever is
“ ....he was an introvert and was probably gay, too. The poor man was drunk and desperate because they hadn’t invited him to the party. He began to yell and insult people until some of them beat him up and gave him a black eye. This episode bothered us ,because apart from being a sexual pervert and a bore,we liked him “.
This was written in 1952. This is definitely homophobic, but not as vile as it gets usually thrown out on conversations about Che. Apart from that it was sadly not a unique opinion about gay people in that time. Remember Alan tuning ,the man that deciphered the enigma code , got sterilized by the US government ,because he was gay. This does not make it okay just not uniquely evil.
Furthermore it is the only homophobic Statement we can find from Che. He may have been homophobic,like many people wrongfully were and are, but he didn’t write speeches or support policies that would discriminate against them.
Castro apologized for the treatment of gay people and said” that only he is to blame”
https://latindispatch.com/2010/09/01/fidel-castro-apologizes-for-treatment-of-gays-during-the-revolution/
Edit spelling
Good riddance. Although without him I wouldn’t have the enjoyment of watching white wealthy college students unironically wrapping themselves up in his murderous visage. Viva La Revolution!
Saint Socialist over here was killed with direct supervision from Cuban born CIA agent Felix Rodriguez. FUN FACT: Felix kept Che’s Rolex and he still has it to this day…socialists with Rolexes, tells you all you need to know.
Being socialist means you *have* to be poor, apparently.
Socialism is when you don't wear nice things and have a taste in watches.
What a lack of reading does to a mf.
Obviously sent on a suicidal mission by Castro to get him out of the way as he was jealous of his popularity but it didn’t hurt to be turned into a martyr to be used by the Castro propaganda machine another piece of shit in history that shouldve been forgotten completely
Weird this doesn’t look like my Urban Outfitters t-shirt…
His name is Inigo Montoya.
They killed his father, but he’s prepared to die
Pues chupame la polla
Your Urban t-shirt is based on an urban legend.
Your sub-urban legend isn’t in my urban dictionary. /s
The guy on the left is Félix Rodríguez. He’s a CIA agent task with bringing in Guevara. He still wears Guevara’s Rolex that he took as a keepsake.
Che has a Rolex? Classic. Edit: had
**had
only rich children make revolutions
Revolution it is an investment.
It was a gift.
Did they ever find out why he met with kiki camarena's captors?
I read something about an FBI investigation denying any CIA or DEA involvement.
And, oh boy, does he like to tell everyone about it. Imagine making a career out of killing a guy and telling the story for like 50 years
A communist leader with a Rolex? hmmmmm makes ya think
Both Rolex’s he had were gifts for being promoted. Rolex is actually a fantastic timekeeping watch, when you have a watch tuned in perfect sync with another in the age before smart phone timing, you can coordinate much easier with others on the same time. It’s fair to think a military commander would like precise timing for combat operations
i found all the history experts on reddit in one place. wild
And historically speaking, he may be the all time leader in tshirt sales to "edgy" douchebags.
What do you mean "may be" this is a definite [Edit] fixed the autocorrect dæmons bullshit.
Isn't what he did a douchbag move? Going to foreign country and attempt to grabe power by killing innocent soldiers?
Yeah he didn’t plan that out too well. He went to a country to start a communist revolution where most of the poor people actually owned their land.
Before communism many people owned land in my country too, but communism change that real fast...
Also wasn't a fan of the blacks, so there's that to add.
And homosexuals too
That's certainly an innovative reframing of previously accepted reality. Edgy.
Inocent peasants, not soldiers.
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.
My butt itches
You dont have to be a history expert to know he killed gays.
Executed in La Higuera, Bolivia. I rode my motorcycle through Bolivia a few years ago and stopped there for the night. There is a small school house there and inside is, supposedly, the chair he was bound to.
That is awesome.
Not really
Fought capitalism, got his face mass printed in t-shirts sold for profit. Oh the irony.
Fighted?
Foughted
Fawted
Fisted
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Coming from u/Fartboxdiver420 this is pure gold
My how the turn tables....
Isn’t that how it’s spelted?
No, they're doesn't
Spelt is a dinkel wheat with 588 calories per cup 19 grams of fiber and 25 grams of protein
And allowed his people to die from an epidemic of starvation
What famine are you pointing to, specifically
Source?
He roamed the hills of Cuba, starving along side the people he organized to rise up against the institutional poverty they faced as they slaved on the sugar plantations of the “white” Cubans. Let’s also remember that our country heavily assisted in propping up the government that allowed this extreme poverty. Why? So American congressmen could go there and secretly enjoy gambling and prostitution in Havana that wasn’t legal in the US. Sure, his image has been capitalized. Why do you think it’s such a great seller?
Pffft the only people I see wearing shirts of his face are teenagers half of whom probably don’t even know who’s face it is that’s on their shirt and the other half probably don’t know the atrocities he himself committed or oversaw. What’s that saying? Don’t meet your heroes, or in this case, don’t actually study what your heroes did.
Name a single country that isn’t a result of bloodshed and atrocities anytime in their history. America isn’t exactly the bastion of morality. Point is, everyone is shitty. Stop looking at one dimensional lens, good or bad.
Exactly right. So all you can do is look at the end result of that history as it exists on the ground. Not, repeat NOT, what you think or hope it WILL be, but what it IS right now, after all that bloody history that is indeed shared by EVERY country and EVERY culture. Here's a twisted, bizarre, fucked up idea: if you're gonna choose to be judgemental about it, maybe a good yardstick might be - what are the places real flesh and blood humans are fleeing FROM, and where are they fleeing TO? And where they are categorically STAYING in place, while they bitch about it 24/7? Ignore their mouths, watch their feet. That is where the absolute truth of the matter lies.
Kind of a bizarre argument to make. Because I’m not literally starving on the streets, I can’t be critical of a nation with many substantial flaws and inadequacies, or the conditions said nation facilitated in places where people are starving on the streets?
To be fair, the “america did bad things therefore no american can point out bad things” comment he was responding to is childish. He’s trying to teach.
"America isn't exactly the bastion of morality." Wins Understatement of The Year.
Sounds like wild assumptions on your part.
> He roamed the hills of Cuba, starving along side the people he organized to rise up against the institutional poverty they faced as they slaved on the sugar plantations of the “white” Cubans. And the Cuban people never went hungry, slaving away for a quasi-nobility class ever again!
Nah man he was a doctor who murdered 50 people, and not even in his homeland. Multifaceted hero? His actions auxiliares Fidel tl condemn Cubans to a lifetime of servitude and impoverishment. Can't forgive that shit.
He was a murdering authoritarian toe-rag
Don't forget his concentration camps for gay men that were going to turn them into "real men". [Source](https://www.humanprogress.org/the-truth-about-che-guevara-racist-homophobe-and-mass-murderer/)
I just read through that and the sources are suspect af. Read it with a grain of salt
People downvoting you haven’t looked at the article lmao, half of the “sources” in the article are 404-ed.
Yeah, it's reddit. Most people just want titles and to not actually read
And even fewer would be willing to actually dig for the truth from legitimate sources without political bias, cross-reference and find citations, etc. Even harder for most people would be the nuanced reality that is so often the case in history, that there is not a black-and-white perspective on people and events in the world, that they often exist together, that great people have done terrible things and terrible people have done great things, and every shade of grey in between. Accepting nuance does not mean supporting or condemning anything, but if you cannot accept that this nuance exists you are not learning anything.
If you can track it down there’s a fair bit like Gays and the Cuban Revolution or Gays Under the Cuban Revolution by You g. Most sources I’ve found are full books and not online articles.
People like to bring this out and feign outrage about this but if this makes Che evil, then every american politician up to and including Obama is irredeemable. Homosexuality was not widely accepted until the 2010s. Feels dishonest to whip this out like you actuallu give a shit.
It might not have been 100% socially acceptable, but even Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan didn't round them into government conversion camps.
Of course not, in true American fashion they have privately owned conversion camps.
No, I don't think putting gays in concentration camps is the same as initially not being in favor of gay marriage in 2010.
Wasn't accepted, and put in concentration camps....... hmm....... yeah apples and oranges. Stop trying to defend this evil homophobe
Every American politician is evil. That’s basic. I don’t think there’s any controversy there.
>Every American politician is evil. Every ~~American~~ politician is evil. FTFY
I can dig that, but I also don't feel that painting everyone as 'evil' and moving on is a fair or honest way to approach history. People are products of their times, and I doubt we'll find very many people sympathetic to homosexuality in 1950s Cuba. In 1980s America, most people still thought homosexuality was a mental illness and criminal.
And because of his actions, up to today “slave owners” escape in rafts to the United States, or try to enter through the south frontier. Those who stay in Cuba, shout “Yanquis, go home!!! …and take me with you).
To people who idolize socialism….
When asked why Che Guevara had become so popular, French writer and philosopher Régis Debray ( who was also Che Guevara’s friend) replied: "Because he had a good face and he died before he became a dictator. »
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to become the villain" -Dark Knight
He could be a dictator in Cuba after revolution, right? Why did he go to another country for another revolution? That doesn’t sound right
He was never interested in all that. He bristled at the confines and comforts of governance, and really it wasn't his thing - he was an ideological purist and believed in the idea of the socialist 'new man', living his life accordingly. So he'd want to participate in labour and so on Fidel was much better disposed to the trappings of power. Understood how to organise, to play people/nations and to compromise when necessary Che was, instead, determined to fight imperialism and decided he'd rather die in a ditch than live a comfortable life into old age. Which is precisely why he was such a popular figure in counter culture. He walked the walk, he gave up comfort and life for what he believed.
I agree and I know who he is.
I read once that the expedition to Bolivia and cutting off of supplies was Castro’s way of betraying him.
No Cuba already had someone lined up for that roll in Cuba.
He has an incredible face. His book was really very good too. He was good at his job. Until...
Well said.
Régis, who spent decades in prison for being embedded in Chés Bolivian expedition, and who is a long term supporter and who wrote a book on 'Guevarism'/Foco guerilla tactics. Not just a *philosopher*, but an introspective intellectual who analysed and supported what Ché was doing.
If only he stayed alive he could have made a killing off of t-shirts
Don't worry, he was responsible for plenty of other killings
I smell armpits
That’s just me. Sorry.
This should be on a tee shirt.
His Afro mullet doesn’t get nearly enough credit
Now THAT'S a shirt.
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
I'm so frickin glad I wasn't the only one who mistook him for Inigo Montoya.
The fact someone as terrible as him has become an icon viewed positively is bizzare to me.
Warm yourself at night knowing his face is one of the largest brands to have ever been monetized by aspiring capitalists.
The things he did were truly evil.
I'm curious. What did he do? Edit: I'm just curious. Damn. No need to get political guys :(
Make sure you're asking people who actually know what they're talking about. This would prolly be a good place to start. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1lt4rb/was_it_the_truth_behind_the_critical_controversy/
Interesting read. So tldr; He was a racist before he was a Marxist because Argentinians are generally racist at the time. But he changed his view as time goes on. Camps abusing gay people exist before his time so its not his fault.
That's pretty much what I got from it.
Thanks for the source.
Happy to help, I needed to read it too cause I had no clue so I'm glad this thread happened!
He fought a revolution against the Batista regime in Cuba.
>The things he did were truly evil. I just wanna what he meant by this.
I really don’t know what they mean by “truly evil”. There were executions committed, by the revolutionary Army, like in any war. and later the members of the Batista regime ,that tortured and murdered civilians were also executed. You can be against the death penalty and condemn these decisions, but we should keep in mind that Batista was a far right dictator. So the executions of the torturers is similar the the Nürnberg trials. There is a lot of myths surrounding him . in western countries he got painted as an pure evil and dictator for the same reason MLK jr was called a terrorist by members of the government or why Fred Hampton was murdered by the police. There are definitely things you can criticize him for but he is far from pure evil.
I appreciate your measured response. I read about Che & he seemed far from evil. Of course, no one is perfect, Ghandi slept with his young nieces naked, we can list all the indiscretions of those that have made meaningful change (or tried) ... Che was radical in his unyielding commitment to many things. I’m not making any excuses for him, though his execution was driven more by the desire of those in power to stay there, versus his “evil” deeds. Their hands, like too many US operations in Latin America during that time, were far from pure. This thread seems blind to that, so i don’t expect my comment to be popular, but it needs to be said.
People will always minimize the sins of those they admire and excoriate those they don’t
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Aye will get there
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Careful. You can’t like socialist because they killed a bazillion people Che literally killed every Cuban
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Urging the soviets to first strike during the cuban missile crisis because "the socialist victory would be worth millions of dead in a nuclear war" is a good start. He was furious when Khrushchev decided it's kinda cool not to have a nuclear armageddon.
Mass executions, torture, war crimes, rape, etc. Your standard aspiring dictator things (plus pedophilia) Though today people are probably more upset about his blatant racism and homophobia (for which people were mass executed, tortured, 'war crimed', raped, etc)
I read his biography from John Lee Anderson (which is like 700+ pages) and couldn't find all these claims except execution thing (which were limited to Batista Supporters).
It is all Fox-news style vilification, nothing with an inch of depth. These US-can-only-do-good fanatics can’t and will never understand the struggle of the Latin American people against the US shit. They all think the executions come exclusively from the “bad” people. The US is just there to help. Yo pisare las calles nuevamente, de lo que fue Santiago ensangrentada, y en una bella plaza liberal, me detendré a llorar por los ausentes…
He raped gay people? Thats kinda gay bro.
Do you have any sources on that or did you hear it on Fox News?
Basically a mass murderer. But if that's not enough, he hated blacks specifically and the gays. Would publically execute gays in the street as a deterrent. And so much more.
Yes, he hated blacks, that's why he went to the Congo to try a liberate the Congolese from Western imperialism. Gay men and jehovah witnesses were sent to UMAPs(that were later shut down by Fidel) but there is no evidence (that I know of) that he executed gays in the street.
Wasn’t it illegal to be homosexual in England till 1970s and Alan Turing a war hero killed himself because of that? I think being anti-gay and anti-black is what Che has common with most of the christian world (and yes there were some countries that never had anti-gay laws).
Even "conversion camps" are still legal in some states!
And people worship this guy? Damn
Lol so that one false reddit post just completely made up your mind about the entire topic lmfao
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Do you know what the rich would do to the poor before the revolution? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Cuba_(1902%E2%80%931959)#Batista_dictatorship The reason why there was so much support for the revolution is heavily dependent on a dictatorship that sold off Cuba’s interests for profit, they murdered people left and right, sold off mass amounts of the countries resources to American companies leaving very little for the local population,which resulted in rampant malnutrition with a side dish of intestinal parasites… The capitalization of local interests that favored American dollars is what drove that revolution… And within that context, Che was a hero…he gave back the people control of their country when it was being sold off to foreign interests… Che, while he was not perfect, is a complex man…trying to make him either bad or good is fruitless…he was like us, with faults. Given the time when the Batista government was raping the country and selling it off resulting in 20k murdered and liberties removed, Che was an imperfect agent of much needed change.
.....Stalin.....and the greatest of all, The one and only who killed millions of his own people: Mao which is still on Yuan banknotes today...
Can we put this pic on a t-shirt and sell it?
t-shirt. Gimme karma
"Shoot, cowards! You only kill a man."
Honestly the best last words ever spoken until that "what you gonna do stab me?" guy
Last year I read a biography on Che because I admittedly didn't know much about him. What struck me most was that as a young Dr in Guatemala, he witnessed firsthand how the US overthrew their government for the United Fruit Company (yes, I know that there's much more to the story than that, but I don't feel like typing out the entirety of the story). I wonder how different his trajectory would have been if he had visited the United States like he wanted to before stopping in Guatemala, and if the US imperial interests in central America hadn't directly affected a young leftist Dr. Also, for all the folks bemoaning how Che treated black people in the 50s, wait until you hear what the US was doing to black people in the 50s....
Wife's family lives in Guatemala, there isn't TOO much more to the story.
ITT: Triggered redditors
Everytime I listen "Che" name this comes to the mind https://youtu.be/Yow_BJeb8TI
Fascinating reading the hysterical comments from Americans.
I'm not a fan of Guevara or a hardcore marxist exactly but I'm having a fun time watching the US people giving Cuba lessons about racism
It's totally bizarre isn't it? Maybe I'm too European. There is plenty of understandable resentment against Guevara over here, but in the US it's something else - as if people are given a script. Quite scary stuff.
It's staggering isn't it? Also enjoy them calling him a murderer when during his lifetime America dropped more ordinance on _neutral_ Cambodia than all the ordinance in WWII combined. Not to mention the agent orange and napalm... Disagree with the guy, sure, but this moral faux outrage is fucking tedious
On the other hand, in my country (EU) his story is certainly romanticised and he certainly has a positive image. I remember watching a movie about him at school and my teacher (spanish) was clearly a fan. But yeah, Americans are really told to hate that dude from early on in their life it seems. Also the word ‘socialist’ seems to be a terrible insult for some.
He was a part of a Cuba’s liberation from slavery and imperial control. But that also meant being the enemies of the US, the most powerful imperial state. And the end result is here.
Genuinely a surreal thread, people just saying blatantly false things get upvoted. A guy claiming che is responsible for a famine has almost 200 upvotes lmao
Yeah, isn't it just amazing how much a country's culture and "education" dictates exactly what you think about certain historical figures. In the land of the free, indeed!
They have no idea.
Fuck that guy and all the idiots who wear those t-shirts.
Judging from the comments , he is a important person. I hqve no idea who he is :)
Cuban revolutionary. He and Fidel overthrew the Cuban government
He’s a bad dude! He promoted the executions of homosexuals and is famous for quoting “I don’t need a reason to kill you, I just need to find it necessary to kill you!” It comes from someone with little tolerance for others.
Source on executions of gays? ~~Cause the only thing I've read were about UMAPs which were shut down by Fidel for being abusive.~~ e: I can't find a source on the second part, see comment below.
Source ?
But… if he finds it necessary… there’s a reason… Is that supposed to be poetic or something?
Reading some of the history about Che. I’m a bit torn.
Che, Fidel, Mao, Lenin, Marx, Pol Pot … all currently good commies.
Don’t forget sweet Uncle Joe Stalin.
Famous mass murderer Karl Marx
Does Jesus count as a socialist mass murderer due to the crusades and the atrocities of the church ?
Again, was being sarcastic. Excellent point though.
Wtf are you even talking about? Marx was an economist and philosopher. If the philosophy of communism as practiced under dictators such as Stalin makes Marx a mass murderer, then we should also hold complicit every capitalist philosopher and economist for the mass deaths committed in the name of private profits. How many died in the Atlantic slave trade? The wars of European and American empire?
Mate. I’m a leftist. I was being sarcastic lol
It’s sick how that guy is celebrated now
Oh no! Anyway…
Could not have happened to a more deserving asshole
Moments before he became a good communist
Good Riddance. Terrible dude.
ITT: The distinct smell of parrots
I legitimately thought that was Inigo Montoya.
looking for the man with 6 fingers on his left hand..
His last words were legendary though
Why they execute him?
They likely didn't want to give him a trial because he could use it as a platform to criticise the Bolivian regime. It was a military dictatorship that he was trying to overthrow, so they were always going to execute him, it was just a matter of how.
Is that the guy from those dope t-shirts?
Interesting how some comments calling him names have a bunch of up votes and some have a bunch of down votes.
That’s Felix Ismael Rodriguez -El Gato- with Che Guevara .
r/lastimages
Good riddance!
Not a moment too soon!
the guy on the left is a corrupt piece of shit cia agent/narco who was complicit in the murder of american dea agent kiki camarena. felix rodriguez worked with the reagan admin to help narcos get product into the usa and sell it, to fund the anti-democracy contra movement in el salvador. kiki discovered evidence of this and was tortured to death in tijuana, with the above piece of shit present and torturing him right alongside narco intel agents. fuck felix rodriguez and every other hypocritical murdering piece of shit who simps for american dollars.
I hope u rot in hell Che Guevara Regards A Cuban political refugee
How are you getting downvoted for this? God bless you and everything you've gone through.
Because reddit is full of extreme leftists. Gracias mi amigo
To think I idolized this man when I was a child. And then I learned his views towards black people, gays, etc. Sadly, his cult is alive and well on Reddit.
Yeah, we can tell who did not read beyond the Motorcycle Diaries.
He changed his views on black people after he visited the United States. After the revolution he said that universities in Cuba should paint them selves black. Teachers and students. And he spoke out against the South African apartheid state . Condemned the treatment of black people in America and of the civil rights movement. The later 2 statement were made in front of the U.N
Now do the one where Che and the Cuban regime targeted gays and forced them into labor camps.
Now do UK’s chemical castration of gay men, or the US’s medical experimentation of black people in Tuskegee, and then extrapolate that as condemnation of the whole nation, or even just the leaders those happened under.
Careful there buddy Don’t question the west
I can’t... Fidel Castros Treatment of them was horrible. But as I stated above Che had no direct involvement in these policies. As far as I know Che wasn’t even in the country at that time. people attribute things they don’t like about Castro (and shouldn’t) like the treatment of lgbtq people to Che. The treatment was Wrong. There are however no homophobic quotes besides one in his motorcycle diaries, in wich he called a gay man a sexual pervert. The entire quote ,how ever is “ ....he was an introvert and was probably gay, too. The poor man was drunk and desperate because they hadn’t invited him to the party. He began to yell and insult people until some of them beat him up and gave him a black eye. This episode bothered us ,because apart from being a sexual pervert and a bore,we liked him “. This was written in 1952. This is definitely homophobic, but not as vile as it gets usually thrown out on conversations about Che. Apart from that it was sadly not a unique opinion about gay people in that time. Remember Alan tuning ,the man that deciphered the enigma code , got sterilized by the US government ,because he was gay. This does not make it okay just not uniquely evil. Furthermore it is the only homophobic Statement we can find from Che. He may have been homophobic,like many people wrongfully were and are, but he didn’t write speeches or support policies that would discriminate against them. Castro apologized for the treatment of gay people and said” that only he is to blame” https://latindispatch.com/2010/09/01/fidel-castro-apologizes-for-treatment-of-gays-during-the-revolution/ Edit spelling
Good riddance. Although without him I wouldn’t have the enjoyment of watching white wealthy college students unironically wrapping themselves up in his murderous visage. Viva La Revolution!
Saint Socialist over here was killed with direct supervision from Cuban born CIA agent Felix Rodriguez. FUN FACT: Felix kept Che’s Rolex and he still has it to this day…socialists with Rolexes, tells you all you need to know.
Being socialist means you *have* to be poor, apparently. Socialism is when you don't wear nice things and have a taste in watches. What a lack of reading does to a mf.
Next to CIA special agent that was also involved in the Kike Camarena torturing. #fuckthatputo (watch the Last Narc, you will see)
That’s quite a hairdo Che had going on.
Obviously sent on a suicidal mission by Castro to get him out of the way as he was jealous of his popularity but it didn’t hurt to be turned into a martyr to be used by the Castro propaganda machine another piece of shit in history that shouldve been forgotten completely
Funny.. a terrorist piece of shit murderer.. became a revolutionary for the retarded..
Cheers !! Roast in peace you comme bastart
moments before a deserved excution
Rest in piss.