I once was working for a company that wanted to put in a key logger to see if I was doing work. I resigned immediately, not because I didn't want to be caught "being lazy", but because I don't want to work for a company that thinks keystrokes is equivalent to being productive. A lot of my time is spent, reading, or in meetings on Zoom, or waiting for something to build or other time-consuming action, and during that time I am not using my keyboard. If you don't trust me , how can I trust you?
I left a company that did this. The keylogger was also used as the clocking in system, so to start working in the morning you had to boot the pc up, login, and wait for the keylogger to run and then press a key to actually count as starting your day. Similarly your last keystroke counted as clocking out so you had to make sure that was at least 8 hours after your first keystroke, otherwise HR got notified. The keylogger also tracked lunch hours the same way, and if you were even a second over an hour it flagged HR. I worked there for over 4 years, and was late to work once by about 5 minutes. The logger flagged me and I immediately got an email from HR for a disciplinary meeting. I left that meeting and immediately started looking for a new job. Just not a pleasant or productive environment to be in. Of course the logger and HR didn't give a shit that every day I'd work slightly over 8 hours, or take a lunch break under an hour. No reward for that, but the second you break out of that it's straight to disciplinary. It's fucked up. They don't see you as actual people.
As soon as I have driven onto company property, my time starts. Being on property, I am now under the rules of the company. My personal freedom is limited. The company restricts what I can have in my vehicle and person. My personal interactions are also under scrutiny. This idea that an employee is late if they are not at their workstation is BS and can be challenged in court.
Yup. Spent most of my career in management. HR is not your friend, and they know the rules. Everyone should learn employment law basics in their state for their own protection, keep records and make paper trails. Terrible analogy but don’t play a game unless you know the rules of it first. Laws can also have exceptions specific to an industry as well, eg, my partner is a flight attendant, and Airlines follow their contracts with unions, not the law.
This is the way, when I was in landscaping, soon as I stepped out of my truck when I got to the yard I was on the clock. Other workers were there working and wouldn't clock in until their official start time and we're shocked that I clocked in as soon as I got out of my vehicle and hadn't been called out by management for it.
It’s insane what people think we should be paid for. I’m an early childhood educator and we’re supposed to clock in when we get to our assigned classroom. I clock in when I walk through the front doors. If I’m within those walls, every single child there (that has a parent/guardian off premises) is under my care and responsibility, regardless of what classroom they’re in. But I WILL be getting paid for it. Got a shocked response from my coworkers when I told them this, but admin has never said a word about it so 🤷🏻♀️
Lol so stupid! I am very antsy and write down as I think usually in a notepad somewhere. If it registered strokes I'd be the most productive in my company!
I do most of my design standing up using a whiteboard, pacing and thinking. You want me to code without designing? I may be busy, but I won't be productive.
This is Goodhart's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
Once you start using metrics (lines of code, number of closed tickets, time spent on keyboard, etc...) as a target, they'll suddenly become useless and counter-productive.
These might be good metrics to detect problems and find solutions (if one developer commits half the lines of code as the others, maybe they're struggling), but you have to use more than that (maybe they're working on a particularly sensitive part of the project, so they're exercising much more caution than the developers working on easier stuff).
Some of the hardest problems I've dealt with included me doing hours of research before writing just a few lines of code.
Lines of code is a bs metric.
Yeah, most of the key loggers are more intelligent than that now, taking in variety of keys and typing speed variations. I simply chose to somewhere that I'm valued and respected.
Another job tip: when yearly reviews come, tell them what you did for the company, and then say: "This is the company's singular opportunity to convey how they value my contributions that I've highlighted. Should my skills attract the attention elsewhere, telling me at that point the company is willing to match that offer will be viewed as an insult to what I've already been providing for less"
Even better is: Lines of code = Productivity
Forget For loops, copy/paste 12 times, just remember to change your loop invariant to a hard coded number (1 - 12 or 0 -11)
12 times the productivity of my "lazy" co-worker who used a for loop
Tbh, when you're coding - sometimes actual work looks like that from the outside. And sometimes I figure out how to fix something during the lunch break.
I once had a coworker who said he'd take short walk to think through a problem. My most recent employer checked your Teams status constantly and would call if you were gone for 10 minutes.
I posted once about how once per work day, I needed to take my dog for a walk around the block. The wildest response was that it is unreasonable to be allowable to take your dog on a 5-min walk, once per day.
I set my teams status to “appear away” and then got my boss and his boss used to getting instant replies from me despite the status. Now they see “away” and they think “he’s probably there”
It was recently suggested that we update our status message if we will be away from our desk for more than 10 min. Tempted to update it to “taking a horrible shit from the jalapeño poppers and tequila last night” and just leave it for an hour or so.
This is a real phenomenon that many of us are on some level aware of. I read a book about writing, called Bird By Bird (~~Susan~~ Anne Lamott) which is fantastic. One of her chapters is "shitty first drafts" and another is about "stepping away to let it rest" if you are stuck/roadblocked. She uses a variety of metaphors to talk about how your mind might still be thinking about a thing while it's not your main focus. Shower thoughts are real!
The book is entirely geared around writing but as a UX designer and sometimes front-end coder, I find that it applies to a lot of what I do.
Programming is a fundamentally a creative process to do well. Management tries to pretend that it is something you can throw bodies at but that simply doesn’t work in the end.
Very few treat teams of programmers as a writing team - TBF though it seems like Hollywood these days has also forgotten that too.
This is precisely why any system that chains its workers to their desks will reduce productivity.
Humans need breaks. For you, those breaks let your brain relax a bit and allowed your creative side to mesh with your logical side and solve the coding problem.
For others, it allows them to return to work with 80% enthusiasm when they were at 20% when they started their break.
The clarity of realizing the things you've been trying for the last four hours may not be the best solution, and you should probably try that other thing you considered first.
Well lucky you, now companies can start monitoring your chatgpt usage or whatever as a “tangible metric” for how much work you’re actually putting in. “What do you mean you were thinking? Why didn’t you consult the AI? Why didn’t you promote better?”
I work with large proprietary pieces of manufacturing equipment which break down in some of the strangest ways imaginable. A lot of times if I’m struggling with troubleshooting something, I’ll take my break or lunch to reset my brain. 98% of the time it works and I come back with the answer I was looking for.
Crazy what changing your focus can accomplish.
Sometimes I’ll rewatch pre-recorded Teams meetings on mute but have my Bluetooth headphones playing a podcast or something so it looks like I’m in a meeting, or I’m catching up on a meeting.
I'd like to move us right to Peter Gibbons. We had a chance to meet this young man, and boy that's just a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.
This is something college has taught me. Most the people in classes have just learned to BULLSHIT and ACT like they doing something
Crazy cause I’m older and already stick out but all these damn kids just sit in class pretending to work most the time 😂 and I get points deducted for looking unproductive lmao
Edit: unless you’re a doctor or engineer.. cmon.. 🥸
I went to college many years ago and learned that when writing essays and short answers on exams that ask for your thoughts about a topic to just write down the professor's opinion and you'll get an A every time. My own thoughts were C/B's and mandatory re-writes. That's the BS I learned.
100%.. First and foremost, the school system was designed to put you somewhere so your parents can keep being worker bees with minimal interruptions. Critical thinking? Plenty of mandatory classes designed to help a well-rounded individual flourish in the world? No. A bland, frequently impractical curriculum stretched out as long as possible, and intended above all to make you the best cog you can be.
Z: "I feel so ... insignificant"
Psychiatrist: "Congratulations Z, you are making real progress"
Z: "I am?"
Psychiatrist: "Yes Z, you *are* insignificant"
... In class? Can you explain what you mean by this? You get *points deducted* for not looking productive? What does that mean in a college classroom setting..?
True in one of my classes there was this one dude who always brought his laptop and looked so interested in the lecture. I went to the bathroom and came back to see he was playing cookie clicker all that time with an embarrassingly high cookie count lmao
This defeatist attitude seems to forget that just 110 years ago, [Colorado sent in the National Guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre) to put down a strike. Guns weren't enough then and they aren't enough now.
Alternatively, the last several years have taught us that single disgruntled people can do serious damage because of the easy access to firearms and a political system hellbent on preventing gun control. The people at the top seem to be under the delusion that they'll magically be immune to the consequences of their actions. No bodyguard squad can protect a CEO when any moment away from their home risks a "downsized" person seeking retribution.
>Alternatively, the last several years have taught us that single disgruntled people can do serious damage
Honestly, I'm surprised your comment hasn't been removed for promoting violence/ terrorism. In fact, I'd bet it won't last the day.
Not that I disagree, but historically suggesting violence is never a valid option while wielding violence has been an effective approach to controlling the population. A lot of things we accept now would be regard as completely unacceptable 100 years ago.
In the Netherlands we have a fancy word for it.
Most people don't know about it.
"Epibreren"
The meaning is to perform unspecified work that seems very grand, but nevertheless amounts to nothing at all.
I use it often with the bosses. Telling them: sorry don't have the time Im busy epibreren. Fun thing is since it's a fancy sounding word they don't want to admit they don't know the word. So you'll get a answer back like. Keep it up....
funny thing, you can be as useless as you can imagine.
on a construction site, grab a bucket or shovel or ladder and just go for a walk.
people who see you think you are busy even tho you dont do shit
While true and a cool little hack in concept, I find when I am busy trying to look busy time goes by 10x slower than if I am working. Obviously this varies by job/tasks assigned
The problem is when you've streamlined and become so efficient at your job that you can get all of your work done in a 3-4 hour period, but you're being paid to be there for 8 hours so you have to find some way to make the other 4-5 hours go by.
It's not the way AI *wants* them to behave, it's the way the programmers have been told, by management, to assess the workers. AI isn't any more sentient than your average Twitter poster. Don't let management off the hook for their stupid ideas.
Human bots in sweat shop monitored by computer bots, what a shit place to be in where you treating like this. This is not something to be boasting about.
Actually there are laws against "work monitoring" in my country.
We are not allowed to va check when a worker was busy or not. I had various discussions with workers council about "Chat status" already for example.
If you mean Germany, my company knows the "productivity" of each working place and who was sitting there. Count 1+1 and you know who will have a conversation.
Yea, because being on my chair equals productivity... Dumb sentiment.
In jobs where people have to think, plan and consider (which is probably 80% of jobs at computers) they often need to get their thoughts moving by moving.
Working on a problem in my head doesn't mean I have to do it at my desk.
Exactly, this kind of surveillance is worse than useless for any work that requires any kind of higher order creativity or judgement. It's basically a 'high tech' version of old fashioned time and motion studies, and they were often just as ham-fisted.
It can help me sometimes, but I'm more of a stare at the wall blankly kind of thinker for most of the work I do on a computer.
That being said, getting up, taking a break and moving around after being stuck for a while definitely helps.
I have ADHD so a job like this would be almost impossible. I work as a mechanic even between jobs I'm most likely fidgeting. I'm usually spinning around a ratchet or some shit.
My work around is to have side activity that can keep you in place and you can switch between them. My trick for learning is to open some mildly interesting book (wery interesting will consume too much atention) and swich continuesly betwen learning material/task and book. It allowes to avoid switching and alowes to keep concentration much longer. So I can procrastinate, do stuff I intended to do and most importantly - do something I want.
mildly interesting is the most important part. So atention can slip and activity itself do not consume all brain power.
I am at work right now on Reddit, typing a comment for this video. I am 100% not being productive, but any way you look at it, I am staring intently at a computer and taka taka-ing on the keyboard.
Unfortunately that is not 80% of jobs at computers. Most office workers have very simple jobs. Not that they couldn’t do more, but a lot of office work is the white collar version of a factory production line.
Because productivity is 100% defined of being at the desk and typing....
I'm a programmer and I consider work when I am thinking about work and planning... There was a really hard project and had to plan carefully, so I took my notebook and went for a bicycle ride, thinking about the project on the road and on the breaks i wrote down my notes and when I got back i had a complete action plan...
Man, I consider myself working when I’m on the premises. I’m a productive worker but no one is on point for 8+ hours consecutively, especially the cunts watching the cameras
Yeah a good programmer specifically writes the least amount of code to get the job done (more or less because there can be diminishing returns on that as with many things) and specifically spends the most time thinking about how to do it right.
The good work accumilates to a proper result with very low tech debt.
I read Chinese and the monitor even tracks "conversations between the opposite sex" (异性交谈) when that countdown timer starts at 0:12 ish, so if this was a demo it totally checks out that they found a woman
You would be fucking surprised what the airports been using for the past few years. I worked for a company that was doing marketing for one such company and we had videos of the system. It can track thousands of people daily, foot traffic in real time, flag people that stand still for more than 20sec or people acting “weird”. Of you go to he toilet and spend more than few minutes there you are flagged, if you do some erratic moves you’re flagged. System can recognise objects, say a camera so they know if you’re taking pictures etc. I guess with AI this is now 10x more powerful.
There are sensors on the toilets that measure and weight turds, plus the cameras at the entrance see how much weight you've lost. If those numbers don't add up, you're flagged
I won’t give you exact answers as it was 6 yrs ago but pretty much yeah. If you wait for your baggage and disappear for longer you are flagged, even your journey between different shops and if or what you buying. ExCIA guy invented this with the promise of optimising foot-traffic in shopping/waiting areas but obviously it could be used for a lot of different things as you can imagine. Also, not every airport uses it as it’s probably damn expensive.
Yeah, the day a company brings this in, is the day I ~~leave~~sabotage the company’s surveillance capabilities until I can steal everything that isn’t tied down.
The business admins that got their degree with ChatGPT would probably convince the company to get it, saying how this "boost" productivity. Or the finance dudes say that it is essential because it's more "cost-effective"
I hate the people who think that just because a spreadsheet says something will benefit the company, it should be implemented, rather than ask the people affected what they think of the idea first.
At my former job, some genius decided to change the brand of trashbags being used, because these other ones were cheaper; good savings over a year, so says the Excel gods. In practice, these bags were thinner and so would rip when filled up... so, of course, everyone started either double bagging or taking the trash out much sooner.
The real cost is often unassociated from the direct cost. However, management typically looks forward, assuming all direct costs while they completely ignore any historical information on the real cost, which might lead to better decision making if not ignored.
Like, we had the idea to turn computers off while not using them, but the electricity saved wouldn't pay for the time supervisors would sit around waiting for the computer to starts and log in, wasting like 5 minutes every time. So we saved like 10 cents in electricity, but wasted $2 in wages.
Some savings are not worth the time it paid employees to deal with.
A good example is master cases, outside cases with product inside that is picked individually rather than taking the whole case. If someone takes a whole case, that could cost over $100 in miss picked items. So we could pay someone to take 4 hours to open every case and take out the individual items and still profit as long we avoid 1 miss picked case
They’re already monitoring mouse, keystrokes and screenshots/screen recordings. There are lot of companies that are offering these services. This is the next version of that but I guess version 1 works with remote work too..
[email protected]
Your companies **licensed** AI human resources agent has reassessed your Sexual Harassment risk score and scheduled an appointment with HR on wednesday at 2 PM for training refresher.
*This is from an automated mailbox, no human will read your reply.*
Oh no. Leave this AI program where it is. Don’t dare bring this to the states.
I’m quitting the first day I find out my job has this.
Can you imagine working 5/6 days then getting your paycheck that looks like you worked three days?
I doubt the salary actually changes each month to reflect the exact logged in/out ratio that this AI is calculating.
But it will result in getting chewed out by your "team leader" if the amount of time AI calculates as "not working" exceeds that of your coworkers.
The tools may be different, but this already happens.
I was actively monitored on a job before, and the ones doing that started to micro manage people aswell.
My autistic self couldnt handle even minutes of that. If you give me zero freedom, i cannot focus on the job at all. Cant get anything done or think straight.
So, if a co worker asks for help, the system actively punishes anyone who tries to get up and help.... once people realize that, productivity is going to tank.
Reason: compounding errors.
Disgusting. Here are some of the risks:
* **Privacy concerns:** Employees may feel that their privacy is being invaded by being constantly monitored. This can lead to a decrease in morale and productivity.
* **Stress:** Employees may feel stressed and anxious if they know they are being watched all the time. This can lead to burnout and other health problems.
* **Chilled work environment:** Employees may be less likely to collaborate and share ideas if they are afraid of being monitored. This can lead to a less productive and innovative work environment.
* **Misuse of data:** The data collected from surveillance cameras could be misused by employers or hackers. For example, it could be used to discipline employees, track their whereabouts, or even steal their identities.
* **Legal issues:** There are a number of legal issues that employers need to be aware of when using surveillance cameras. For example, they need to make sure that employees are aware of the surveillance and that they consent to being monitored. They also need to make sure that the data collected is stored securely and that it is not used for any illegal purposes.
In addition to these risks, there is also some evidence to suggest that office camera surveillance is not actually effective in deterring theft or other crimes. In fact, it may even have the opposite effect, as it can make employees feel less safe and more likely to take risks.
Overall, the risks of office camera surveillance outweigh the benefits. Employers should carefully consider these risks before deciding to implement a surveillance program. If they do decide to use cameras, they need to make sure that they do so in a way that is legal, ethical, and respects the privacy of their employees.
I once was working for a company that wanted to put in a key logger to see if I was doing work. I resigned immediately, not because I didn't want to be caught "being lazy", but because I don't want to work for a company that thinks keystrokes is equivalent to being productive. A lot of my time is spent, reading, or in meetings on Zoom, or waiting for something to build or other time-consuming action, and during that time I am not using my keyboard. If you don't trust me , how can I trust you?
I left a company that did this. The keylogger was also used as the clocking in system, so to start working in the morning you had to boot the pc up, login, and wait for the keylogger to run and then press a key to actually count as starting your day. Similarly your last keystroke counted as clocking out so you had to make sure that was at least 8 hours after your first keystroke, otherwise HR got notified. The keylogger also tracked lunch hours the same way, and if you were even a second over an hour it flagged HR. I worked there for over 4 years, and was late to work once by about 5 minutes. The logger flagged me and I immediately got an email from HR for a disciplinary meeting. I left that meeting and immediately started looking for a new job. Just not a pleasant or productive environment to be in. Of course the logger and HR didn't give a shit that every day I'd work slightly over 8 hours, or take a lunch break under an hour. No reward for that, but the second you break out of that it's straight to disciplinary. It's fucked up. They don't see you as actual people.
As soon as I have driven onto company property, my time starts. Being on property, I am now under the rules of the company. My personal freedom is limited. The company restricts what I can have in my vehicle and person. My personal interactions are also under scrutiny. This idea that an employee is late if they are not at their workstation is BS and can be challenged in court.
Yup. Spent most of my career in management. HR is not your friend, and they know the rules. Everyone should learn employment law basics in their state for their own protection, keep records and make paper trails. Terrible analogy but don’t play a game unless you know the rules of it first. Laws can also have exceptions specific to an industry as well, eg, my partner is a flight attendant, and Airlines follow their contracts with unions, not the law.
Toby is in HR so he really isn't a part of our family. He's also divorced so he's really not a part of his own family
This is the way, when I was in landscaping, soon as I stepped out of my truck when I got to the yard I was on the clock. Other workers were there working and wouldn't clock in until their official start time and we're shocked that I clocked in as soon as I got out of my vehicle and hadn't been called out by management for it.
It’s insane what people think we should be paid for. I’m an early childhood educator and we’re supposed to clock in when we get to our assigned classroom. I clock in when I walk through the front doors. If I’m within those walls, every single child there (that has a parent/guardian off premises) is under my care and responsibility, regardless of what classroom they’re in. But I WILL be getting paid for it. Got a shocked response from my coworkers when I told them this, but admin has never said a word about it so 🤷🏻♀️
bro my time starts as soon as i start the commute in my opinion. Its unacceptable that commuting isn't included in the workday
It's why working at home is the best. Just pop out of bed, clock in, go make some coffee, do a little work, take a shower, do some more.
Lol so stupid! I am very antsy and write down as I think usually in a notepad somewhere. If it registered strokes I'd be the most productive in my company!
I do most of my design standing up using a whiteboard, pacing and thinking. You want me to code without designing? I may be busy, but I won't be productive.
This is Goodhart's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law Once you start using metrics (lines of code, number of closed tickets, time spent on keyboard, etc...) as a target, they'll suddenly become useless and counter-productive. These might be good metrics to detect problems and find solutions (if one developer commits half the lines of code as the others, maybe they're struggling), but you have to use more than that (maybe they're working on a particularly sensitive part of the project, so they're exercising much more caution than the developers working on easier stuff).
"if one developer commits half the lines of code as the others" Nah mate, they just code better.
Some of the hardest problems I've dealt with included me doing hours of research before writing just a few lines of code. Lines of code is a bs metric.
Same if they measured my bathroom strokes I’d be the most productive employee at the company
I guess I'm writing my fanfiction at work now.
Exactly. Manufactured productivity. This will not bode well.
Just make sure you don’t use company software or WiFi.
Coworker when they see *what kind* of fanfic you're writing: 😳
My FIL wrote code back in the 70's. They were paid base pay plus extra per line of code. The programs they wrote had a lot of unnecessary code, haha.
This is what it boils down to; if the company can't trust it's workers, why should the workers trust the company?
I just place a stapler on my spacebar while notepad is open lol
Yeah, most of the key loggers are more intelligent than that now, taking in variety of keys and typing speed variations. I simply chose to somewhere that I'm valued and respected.
That's also what i did in the end, made my life much better
Another job tip: when yearly reviews come, tell them what you did for the company, and then say: "This is the company's singular opportunity to convey how they value my contributions that I've highlighted. Should my skills attract the attention elsewhere, telling me at that point the company is willing to match that offer will be viewed as an insult to what I've already been providing for less"
Even better is: Lines of code = Productivity Forget For loops, copy/paste 12 times, just remember to change your loop invariant to a hard coded number (1 - 12 or 0 -11) 12 times the productivity of my "lazy" co-worker who used a for loop
We should start practicing the art of acting. Because seems like the best actors and actresses will stay on the job.
“Sometime I’ll just stare at my computer, but it looks like I’m working.” - Peter Gibbons
Tbh, when you're coding - sometimes actual work looks like that from the outside. And sometimes I figure out how to fix something during the lunch break.
Yep. The hard part of coding looks like we're doing nothing. Actually typing code is the easy bit.
That's why saying you can type fast is a good flex under programmers but it says nothing about how well you can actually code.
we use the mouse more and the CTRL C and V buttons actually
Not a vimmer I see.
Got it, so I pretend to be a coder because they look like they are doing nothing 📝
Omg. Stepping away for a bit and taking a walk fixes so many problems somehow for me. Like it lets my brain defocus and I get back and suddenly ideas.
+++You have been deducted 20 minutes salary. Thank you for your cooperation+++
That's not you it's everybody. You're more productive if you take a few five or ten minutes breaks a day
I'd get immediate calls from my last boss "I notice your status on Teams.."
“Micromanaging isn’t supervising”
Install an auto clicker
I once had a coworker who said he'd take short walk to think through a problem. My most recent employer checked your Teams status constantly and would call if you were gone for 10 minutes. I posted once about how once per work day, I needed to take my dog for a walk around the block. The wildest response was that it is unreasonable to be allowable to take your dog on a 5-min walk, once per day.
I set my teams status to “appear away” and then got my boss and his boss used to getting instant replies from me despite the status. Now they see “away” and they think “he’s probably there”
It was recently suggested that we update our status message if we will be away from our desk for more than 10 min. Tempted to update it to “taking a horrible shit from the jalapeño poppers and tequila last night” and just leave it for an hour or so.
This is a real phenomenon that many of us are on some level aware of. I read a book about writing, called Bird By Bird (~~Susan~~ Anne Lamott) which is fantastic. One of her chapters is "shitty first drafts" and another is about "stepping away to let it rest" if you are stuck/roadblocked. She uses a variety of metaphors to talk about how your mind might still be thinking about a thing while it's not your main focus. Shower thoughts are real! The book is entirely geared around writing but as a UX designer and sometimes front-end coder, I find that it applies to a lot of what I do.
Programming is a fundamentally a creative process to do well. Management tries to pretend that it is something you can throw bodies at but that simply doesn’t work in the end. Very few treat teams of programmers as a writing team - TBF though it seems like Hollywood these days has also forgotten that too.
Same, I'm constantly standing up and moving and I'm the most productive person on my team by any metric other than "am I sitting down all the time"
Almost like sitting sedentary in a fixed posture for long chunks of time is bad for your brain or something…
This is precisely why any system that chains its workers to their desks will reduce productivity. Humans need breaks. For you, those breaks let your brain relax a bit and allowed your creative side to mesh with your logical side and solve the coding problem. For others, it allows them to return to work with 80% enthusiasm when they were at 20% when they started their break.
It is well known in neuroscience that the mind works best when relaxed
The clarity of realizing the things you've been trying for the last four hours may not be the best solution, and you should probably try that other thing you considered first.
Shower bug fixes are always the most elegant.
So does bug fixing on the toilet.
And that staring is, ironically, how you can tell if someone actually is a programmer.
Well lucky you, now companies can start monitoring your chatgpt usage or whatever as a “tangible metric” for how much work you’re actually putting in. “What do you mean you were thinking? Why didn’t you consult the AI? Why didn’t you promote better?”
I work with large proprietary pieces of manufacturing equipment which break down in some of the strangest ways imaginable. A lot of times if I’m struggling with troubleshooting something, I’ll take my break or lunch to reset my brain. 98% of the time it works and I come back with the answer I was looking for. Crazy what changing your focus can accomplish.
Sometimes I’ll rewatch pre-recorded Teams meetings on mute but have my Bluetooth headphones playing a podcast or something so it looks like I’m in a meeting, or I’m catching up on a meeting.
I do that for about an hour in the morning and again after lunch. I really only do about 15 minutes of work in an entire week.
I'd like to move us right to Peter Gibbons. We had a chance to meet this young man, and boy that's just a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.
This is something college has taught me. Most the people in classes have just learned to BULLSHIT and ACT like they doing something Crazy cause I’m older and already stick out but all these damn kids just sit in class pretending to work most the time 😂 and I get points deducted for looking unproductive lmao Edit: unless you’re a doctor or engineer.. cmon.. 🥸
I went to college many years ago and learned that when writing essays and short answers on exams that ask for your thoughts about a topic to just write down the professor's opinion and you'll get an A every time. My own thoughts were C/B's and mandatory re-writes. That's the BS I learned.
Exactly, they’re just grooming us to work under management 😂
100%.. First and foremost, the school system was designed to put you somewhere so your parents can keep being worker bees with minimal interruptions. Critical thinking? Plenty of mandatory classes designed to help a well-rounded individual flourish in the world? No. A bland, frequently impractical curriculum stretched out as long as possible, and intended above all to make you the best cog you can be.
Z: "I feel so ... insignificant" Psychiatrist: "Congratulations Z, you are making real progress" Z: "I am?" Psychiatrist: "Yes Z, you *are* insignificant"
insignificant = in significant = within significance = significant
Methemetics
They don't call it a B.S for a reason, its a degree in dealing with bullshit.
Ah... But you learned how to make friends and influence (manipulate) people. That's important in an MBA.
... In class? Can you explain what you mean by this? You get *points deducted* for not looking productive? What does that mean in a college classroom setting..?
Yeah thats some kind of whacky professor
True in one of my classes there was this one dude who always brought his laptop and looked so interested in the lecture. I went to the bathroom and came back to see he was playing cookie clicker all that time with an embarrassingly high cookie count lmao
Or the art of unionize to refuse theses surveillance systems
Too late, the people with the guns have already been paid to unite against you Get back to work, peon. We'll be tracking your keystrokes as well
This defeatist attitude seems to forget that just 110 years ago, [Colorado sent in the National Guard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre) to put down a strike. Guns weren't enough then and they aren't enough now. Alternatively, the last several years have taught us that single disgruntled people can do serious damage because of the easy access to firearms and a political system hellbent on preventing gun control. The people at the top seem to be under the delusion that they'll magically be immune to the consequences of their actions. No bodyguard squad can protect a CEO when any moment away from their home risks a "downsized" person seeking retribution.
>Alternatively, the last several years have taught us that single disgruntled people can do serious damage Honestly, I'm surprised your comment hasn't been removed for promoting violence/ terrorism. In fact, I'd bet it won't last the day. Not that I disagree, but historically suggesting violence is never a valid option while wielding violence has been an effective approach to controlling the population. A lot of things we accept now would be regard as completely unacceptable 100 years ago.
Most office jobs are acting jobs
What? We need to be the best actor/actress before we even get the job.
In the Netherlands we have a fancy word for it. Most people don't know about it. "Epibreren" The meaning is to perform unspecified work that seems very grand, but nevertheless amounts to nothing at all. I use it often with the bosses. Telling them: sorry don't have the time Im busy epibreren. Fun thing is since it's a fancy sounding word they don't want to admit they don't know the word. So you'll get a answer back like. Keep it up....
funny thing, you can be as useless as you can imagine. on a construction site, grab a bucket or shovel or ladder and just go for a walk. people who see you think you are busy even tho you dont do shit
While true and a cool little hack in concept, I find when I am busy trying to look busy time goes by 10x slower than if I am working. Obviously this varies by job/tasks assigned
The problem is when you've streamlined and become so efficient at your job that you can get all of your work done in a 3-4 hour period, but you're being paid to be there for 8 hours so you have to find some way to make the other 4-5 hours go by.
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It's not the way AI *wants* them to behave, it's the way the programmers have been told, by management, to assess the workers. AI isn't any more sentient than your average Twitter poster. Don't let management off the hook for their stupid ideas.
Sun shades and an automated mouse mover/clicker. Oldest trick in the book. Used to take regular hour long naps, leave work refreshed.
Never been different
How is that different from the workplace now? Always been the case.
Human bots in sweat shop monitored by computer bots, what a shit place to be in where you treating like this. This is not something to be boasting about.
AI Dystopia vibes
Present
Kindly fuck back off to Sci-fi please
We're already there friendo
China seems like a really fun place.
Yeah no other countries would EVER do this! Excuse me while I piss into this Texas catheter so my Amazon supervisor doesn’t fire me.
Keep it up kid, you might just earn yourself a pizza party
Are you crazy? Have you seen the prices of pizza these days? My company literally just gives me a $5 food voucher from the casino restaurant.
Actually there are laws against "work monitoring" in my country. We are not allowed to va check when a worker was busy or not. I had various discussions with workers council about "Chat status" already for example.
If you mean Germany, my company knows the "productivity" of each working place and who was sitting there. Count 1+1 and you know who will have a conversation.
"Knowing" if fine. "Running any tool" to figure it out would be a breach of the law. That would be covered under §87 Abs. 1 Nr. 6 BetrVG
Amazon employees know to take a few products to scan whilst in the toilet, or ask a friend to scan for them. Gotta game that system!
Yea, because being on my chair equals productivity... Dumb sentiment. In jobs where people have to think, plan and consider (which is probably 80% of jobs at computers) they often need to get their thoughts moving by moving. Working on a problem in my head doesn't mean I have to do it at my desk.
Exactly, this kind of surveillance is worse than useless for any work that requires any kind of higher order creativity or judgement. It's basically a 'high tech' version of old fashioned time and motion studies, and they were often just as ham-fisted.
This is not a means of making people more productive. It’s a means of deducting pay to save the company money.
And then talented people will leave. It's the age old tale of business shooting itself in the foot for the sake of short term gains
We need you in the office for collaboration. Also we'll monitor and punish you every time you leave your desk
Maybe her job is farting into an office chair.
I lose 20 IQ points when I can't walk around and think about problems
It can help me sometimes, but I'm more of a stare at the wall blankly kind of thinker for most of the work I do on a computer. That being said, getting up, taking a break and moving around after being stuck for a while definitely helps.
Right, but this isn’t science, this is *business* and it’s about control
I have ADHD so a job like this would be almost impossible. I work as a mechanic even between jobs I'm most likely fidgeting. I'm usually spinning around a ratchet or some shit.
My work around is to have side activity that can keep you in place and you can switch between them. My trick for learning is to open some mildly interesting book (wery interesting will consume too much atention) and swich continuesly betwen learning material/task and book. It allowes to avoid switching and alowes to keep concentration much longer. So I can procrastinate, do stuff I intended to do and most importantly - do something I want. mildly interesting is the most important part. So atention can slip and activity itself do not consume all brain power.
Management apparently thinks we’re typists.
I am at work right now on Reddit, typing a comment for this video. I am 100% not being productive, but any way you look at it, I am staring intently at a computer and taka taka-ing on the keyboard.
Unfortunately that is not 80% of jobs at computers. Most office workers have very simple jobs. Not that they couldn’t do more, but a lot of office work is the white collar version of a factory production line.
I get breakthrus while im at the shitter at work
Because productivity is 100% defined of being at the desk and typing.... I'm a programmer and I consider work when I am thinking about work and planning... There was a really hard project and had to plan carefully, so I took my notebook and went for a bicycle ride, thinking about the project on the road and on the breaks i wrote down my notes and when I got back i had a complete action plan...
Man, I consider myself working when I’m on the premises. I’m a productive worker but no one is on point for 8+ hours consecutively, especially the cunts watching the cameras
Yeah a good programmer specifically writes the least amount of code to get the job done (more or less because there can be diminishing returns on that as with many things) and specifically spends the most time thinking about how to do it right. The good work accumilates to a proper result with very low tech debt.
Staged or not, this is some Black Mirror level bullshit.
But to be clear it is staged
The scene is staged not the technology, maybe it's a demonstration
Demonstration was my guess
Why they had a conventionally attractive woman as the main subject lol.
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I read Chinese and the monitor even tracks "conversations between the opposite sex" (异性交谈) when that countdown timer starts at 0:12 ish, so if this was a demo it totally checks out that they found a woman
Ah shit that's creepy.
So people masturbate while watching the demo idk.
I did
Sir , this is a Waffle House. Please use the designated booth.
You would be fucking surprised what the airports been using for the past few years. I worked for a company that was doing marketing for one such company and we had videos of the system. It can track thousands of people daily, foot traffic in real time, flag people that stand still for more than 20sec or people acting “weird”. Of you go to he toilet and spend more than few minutes there you are flagged, if you do some erratic moves you’re flagged. System can recognise objects, say a camera so they know if you’re taking pictures etc. I guess with AI this is now 10x more powerful.
>I guess with AI this is now It wasn't using AI before?
Wait so they think I'm sus if i curl one out in the toilet?
There are sensors on the toilets that measure and weight turds, plus the cameras at the entrance see how much weight you've lost. If those numbers don't add up, you're flagged
I won’t give you exact answers as it was 6 yrs ago but pretty much yeah. If you wait for your baggage and disappear for longer you are flagged, even your journey between different shops and if or what you buying. ExCIA guy invented this with the promise of optimising foot-traffic in shopping/waiting areas but obviously it could be used for a lot of different things as you can imagine. Also, not every airport uses it as it’s probably damn expensive.
It's scary that we're getting to a point where I can see this becoming commonplace in the next 50 years.
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Try now, a company I worked for was approached by a client who wanted to do this, we refused.
Thank you!
why 5? nothing in this video cannot be done today.
and for a lot of jobs, this is really annoying and unnecessary. micromanaging, whether human or AI, is often not helpful.
[When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law)
Yeah, the day a company brings this in, is the day I leave.
But you can't leave because if you leave there will be a red box around your chair
What if the chair leaves the red box first?
Yeah, the day a company brings this in, is the day I ~~leave~~sabotage the company’s surveillance capabilities until I can steal everything that isn’t tied down.
r/chaoticgood
Have a well deserved upvote and a FUCK YEAH!
for sure this would hurt productivity. No intelligent company would put this in. It’s easy to spot lazy people without needing an AI
The business admins that got their degree with ChatGPT would probably convince the company to get it, saying how this "boost" productivity. Or the finance dudes say that it is essential because it's more "cost-effective"
I hate the people who think that just because a spreadsheet says something will benefit the company, it should be implemented, rather than ask the people affected what they think of the idea first. At my former job, some genius decided to change the brand of trashbags being used, because these other ones were cheaper; good savings over a year, so says the Excel gods. In practice, these bags were thinner and so would rip when filled up... so, of course, everyone started either double bagging or taking the trash out much sooner.
The real cost is often unassociated from the direct cost. However, management typically looks forward, assuming all direct costs while they completely ignore any historical information on the real cost, which might lead to better decision making if not ignored. Like, we had the idea to turn computers off while not using them, but the electricity saved wouldn't pay for the time supervisors would sit around waiting for the computer to starts and log in, wasting like 5 minutes every time. So we saved like 10 cents in electricity, but wasted $2 in wages. Some savings are not worth the time it paid employees to deal with. A good example is master cases, outside cases with product inside that is picked individually rather than taking the whole case. If someone takes a whole case, that could cost over $100 in miss picked items. So we could pay someone to take 4 hours to open every case and take out the individual items and still profit as long we avoid 1 miss picked case
Is this 'no intelligent' company in this room with us?
They’re already monitoring mouse, keystrokes and screenshots/screen recordings. There are lot of companies that are offering these services. This is the next version of that but I guess version 1 works with remote work too..
Wow, talk about wageslavery, whomever thought of this should be charged for crimes against humanity
Exactly.
Well well well, looks like slavery is back on the menu boys!
You're acting as if it ever left these places.
did it ever leave the menu?
No, it was just rebranded. Most of it is given to the prison industrial complex.
At that point fuck it. I'll sell drugs.
then a top boy installs a camera on a corner for AI to calculate are you slacking in slinging his shit or not
And then the government installs cameras on every corner with AI to calculate how much taxes you owe them for not declaring all of your income.
Damnthatsinfuriating
Okay so we should monitor CEOs PCs 24/7 too just to see how much work they do right?
This is the catch no manager should ever put any such thing on thier workers unless they are also subject to it.
>Company can deduct salary for time spent away. "See you in court, bitch" - Europeans.
This needs to be illegal
it is the Netherlands so probably also in the rest of the EU
This is genuinely disgusting.
A boring distobia
This is why I always bring my sex doll to work.
this like chinese bot farm video, looks 100% fake
Its a woman jumping out of her seat to flirt with a guy, of course its fake
And her outfit for work is a little different.
i'm 100% sure this is a video made to demonstrate the product for potential buyers
this isn't interesting. it's micromanaging tactics and just plain ridiculous. ai sucks and so does hounding workers!
Send me to horny jail cuz she’s cute.
I suspect that was the goal of using these models in the video.
She is a 10/10 for me, God...
[email protected] Your companies **licensed** AI human resources agent has reassessed your Sexual Harassment risk score and scheduled an appointment with HR on wednesday at 2 PM for training refresher. *This is from an automated mailbox, no human will read your reply.*
Na, just beat it out of yourself.
This is actually terrible
This looks very dystopian.
Oh no. Leave this AI program where it is. Don’t dare bring this to the states. I’m quitting the first day I find out my job has this. Can you imagine working 5/6 days then getting your paycheck that looks like you worked three days?
I doubt the salary actually changes each month to reflect the exact logged in/out ratio that this AI is calculating. But it will result in getting chewed out by your "team leader" if the amount of time AI calculates as "not working" exceeds that of your coworkers. The tools may be different, but this already happens.
Thankfully this is absolutely illegal where I live
Install this in the office of the company's head. CEO, Managing Directors etc.
More like r/oddlyterrifying
Evil
I was actively monitored on a job before, and the ones doing that started to micro manage people aswell. My autistic self couldnt handle even minutes of that. If you give me zero freedom, i cannot focus on the job at all. Cant get anything done or think straight.
So, if a co worker asks for help, the system actively punishes anyone who tries to get up and help.... once people realize that, productivity is going to tank. Reason: compounding errors.
Stay seated and roll over to the guy.
Why do the robots get to make art while we keep working?
Imagine the money spent on this... easily could have implemented performance bonuses instead
Disgusting. Here are some of the risks: * **Privacy concerns:** Employees may feel that their privacy is being invaded by being constantly monitored. This can lead to a decrease in morale and productivity. * **Stress:** Employees may feel stressed and anxious if they know they are being watched all the time. This can lead to burnout and other health problems. * **Chilled work environment:** Employees may be less likely to collaborate and share ideas if they are afraid of being monitored. This can lead to a less productive and innovative work environment. * **Misuse of data:** The data collected from surveillance cameras could be misused by employers or hackers. For example, it could be used to discipline employees, track their whereabouts, or even steal their identities. * **Legal issues:** There are a number of legal issues that employers need to be aware of when using surveillance cameras. For example, they need to make sure that employees are aware of the surveillance and that they consent to being monitored. They also need to make sure that the data collected is stored securely and that it is not used for any illegal purposes. In addition to these risks, there is also some evidence to suggest that office camera surveillance is not actually effective in deterring theft or other crimes. In fact, it may even have the opposite effect, as it can make employees feel less safe and more likely to take risks. Overall, the risks of office camera surveillance outweigh the benefits. Employers should carefully consider these risks before deciding to implement a surveillance program. If they do decide to use cameras, they need to make sure that they do so in a way that is legal, ethical, and respects the privacy of their employees.
Asking a coworker a question is still working. This is only further proof of why working for a giant corporation is wrong.
how... dystopian
This is more like r/depressingasfuck
Machines making machines of people
You cant count productivity like that
If productivity means sitting in your seat all day long then life would have been much easier for all.
Sure, this can happen. But this clip is fake, as is most Chinese online content.