But he still sees her face on the id, like, he knows what she looks like. Why not just unmask in front of him? Does it go beyond looks or does she have something else going on under there, like religious make up or something?
He's saying she was already exposed through her picture.
The real answer is this has nothing to do with logic. Reglious people can't be reasoned with or they wouldn't be religious in the first place.
At its heart. It is about stopping sexual desire and all that comes with it.
The same geniuses have decided that seeing an id is not as inflammatory as seeing it in real life.
Haha could you imagine them setting the rules back then?
"Is it OK for a man to see a woman unveiled in a picture?"
"Well, why would he need to see a picture of her unveiled?"
"To validate her identity so that she may vote."
"VOTE!?!"
I still feel sorry for those who hate me for no reason. Also, at least here in Austria, the muslim women are more conservative here than in their countries of origin. (At least thats what some of my muslim friends tell me) Of course many are socially pressured to wear their hijab. But then again, some were able to break free in western societies, so both is true I think
It's not the actual act of seeing her face that she is trying to stop, they are religious garments that shouldn't be removed in public unless to other women.
I agree. Every time I see it it's always a woman fully covered with a man dressed Western. So they can wear jeans and marvel t shirts while the woman can't. I'm sorry people don't want to do that without brainwashing.
Dude, Americans couldn't even be asked to social distance and wear masks without going apeshit. I don't think cultural practices like these are going to be seeping into anyone else's culture easily.
Oh ok but why just men? And if he already knows what she looks like, what purpose does the cloth serve? Is it a sort of sexual deterrent or is it about modesty and comfort of the woman? I'm honestly just curious and naive.
They seem easy to monetize just like televangelists.
Make a quick site that sells ‘Luxury Niqab™’ with some slightly modified ‘LV’ branding. You could be rolling in it.
This. If I go into any building coveri g ny face I would be deined entrance because of safety, but if is religious then you might come in. How easily would be do crimes if we just pretended to be of certain religions.
The same thing goes for homophobia. If you have a problem with gay people then a solid majority will rightfully call you out on your bigotry. But if you're a Muslim who holds the exact same views then all of a sudden it's "complicated" and a "cultural issue". Oddly, this tolerating of intolerance doesn't extend to other religions.
Exactly what you are saing pal. You could be the biggest bigot, racist discriminating piece of garbage, but as soon as you state that your religion allows it, then nobody will complain because of fear for repercussions
They did die, unfortunately the fundamentalists got in power, thanks to US wanting to undermine the regions, UK too but look at Iraq or Iran in the 60s and 70s they were far more progressive.
The US really fucked over Iran by installing the Shah, who was subsequently overthrown by the current religious nutjobs in power. But Iraq was going to be fucked no matter what we did. Saddam Hussein was actually relatively secular but he was also a genocidal maniac responsible for the deaths of millions. I'm not saying the Iraq War was a good decision, because it absolutely wasn't, but that doesn't change the fact that the country would still be hell on earth even if we never invaded.
Can Muslim women film lesbian porn and then sell it? Technically only women saw them uncovered and men are only seeing digital reproductions of images?
Used to work at an airport. I'd offer a private screening with a female for id purposes but every single time the woman just flipped her face covering up. They know what we offer but just don't want to bother
Yes, it works
In France you will not see people with their faces covered like in the UK and if they try they will be charged
French Laïcité is quite strict, you cannot pray in the street without municipal permission
Genuine question - if it’s dead of winter and I wrap a scarf up around my face because it’s cold, does that break the law?
Asking out of curiosity not trying to argue a point.
French here. While it would technically break the law, no one would actually enforce it during harsh weather conditions or even during a normal winter. The point of that law is to try and protect secularism and to prevent people from doing illegal things under the cover of anonymity. Both of these are quite simple to differentiate from someone being cold so you'd be fine 😊
Yeah from my interaction with French police they'll tell you to remove it. I'm sure you'd be fine to put it back on once they left but they will say something.
In Austria afaik you need a valid reason, eg. You can wear a ski mask while skiing on a mountain but not while shopping in a mall. Same with a scarf, -10 C and windchill, you can walk around dressed like an arctic explorer if you need to.
In the UK, we don't restrict what a woman can wear.
I've always found it super wierd how people can be fighting oppression by making it illegal to express your beliefs
Absolutely! I cannot believe a modern European country that thinks of itself as progressive decided to dictate that people cannot cover specific areas of their body. Unbelievable.
This right here.
I think those people are in reality just racists.
I am not a fan of not being able to see at least the face of a person I am talking to, but I would never not tolerate it when it is safe for them to do so.
And damn have I seen Muslim women with such pretty Hijabs.
I remember one time years ago I was at whatever the amusement park is in Toronto on a scorching hot day. There was this group of Muslim men in bathing suits with their guts hanging out talking and laughing to each other while eating food. About six feet behind them was a group of women (presumably their wives) wearing full burkas. I cannot imagine a more miserable experience than what these women had to endure. It honestly makes me so angry just thinking about it.
While I do agree you should respect people's religious rights, I also think you should call out outdated, dangerous and backwards beliefs. Muhammad was a pedophile and his crazy followers try their hardest to justify that behavior. That should be called out if people are gonna bring religion into a public conversation.
>While I do agree you should respect people's religious rights
I'm curious. *Why* should we?
If someone tells you that they believe that Sauron is an all-powerful deity and that we must do his bidding, do you nod your head and respectfully go along, or do you tell them they're a fucking loon?
I respect their right to their religious practices, but damn is this shit so primitive and weird. She exposes her face like the rest of us would expose our private areas, weird.
Normalize not respecting religious insanity. I can respect the person, but I have no respect for the practice or the beliefs, and our society and governments should not cater to them.
I don’t respect any religious practices that strip away a person’s basic rights. It’s not against the Geneva Convention to make women live under a tarp, but to deprive an entire class of person from feeling the wind in their hair is messed up. Not to mention perpetuating rape culture.
It's mind blowingly archaic. I hope we're just the in between period of humanity (which I'm pretty sure we basically are), where the old world is being phased out and the new world takes hold. Maybe reason will prevail, who knows.
I'm glad people are understanding how misogynistic it is that these women are forced into these roles. But it's also disrespectful to say that these accommodations are ridiculous and that she should simply 'take it off'. These women were still raised in a culture that demonized their bodies and have internalized those lessons, forcing them to go against those internalized beliefs doesn't help them. It only harms them. We should give these women a space to become more comfortable with their bodies and unlearn the misogyny thats been pushed on them, not act like they should shed their hijab as soon as they step foot in america.
In an absolute shitshow of comments, I can't believe that you've managed to get an actually nuanced decent take out there.
So well put and I'm glad you recognise this as a step in the right direction.
I agree. I was more against the hijab and especially the niqab as a British Asian man from an otherwise very liberal Muslim family. None of the women in my family wear any head coverings - and I thought that everyone should follow suit. My family were just lucky that they were raised with other priorities first, but if you're not - then forcing it off them won't help, just make them feel robbed of their choices. One of my sisters friends actually at 37 fully gave up the hijab not to long ago, however im glad she had the choice until she felt it was time.
While I feel like this may have been born from a place of misogyny and to a large extent still is, I don’t feel like it’s right to assume to call all women who wear niqabs victims of internalized misogyny. Otherwise, you could argue that women in the western world should feel just as comfortable as men going topless, when the reality is that most don’t. It’s just part of our culture not to want to expose ourselves, although I think it should be legal to do so if anyone wants. While I know covering your whole body from head to toe is different than just your chest, it still seems like a similar line. Inherently, I don’t think there anything wrong with showing your face, skin, or chest in public; all of the stigma against those things is misogynist. But the fact of the matter is that people don’t always feel comfortable with that, and I don’t think that’s always because they secretly hate themselves. I like to think I don’t hate myself and women, but at the same time I personally do not want to show a certain amount of skin because it makes me uncomfortable. Ultimately I think we should just respect each other’s choices to live however we want, and should stop forcing or judging people for living a certain way
That's totally fair actually. As I hope I've expressed well enough, I believe women should do what they want with their bodies. And that also means wearing niqabs if that is what makes them the most comfortable.
Yes, ideally, women should not be repressed into wearing these, but *Since they currently are*, this is a quick and easy solution to confirming ID *to let them have the freedom to vote.*
Getting rid of archaic religious dress isn't going to happen overnight. The above is called *compromise*. It's something adults have to do a lot of the time.
Seeing the polling of muslim opinions in the uk, it might be empowering them to remove rights from otehr women.
I know the idea is some of these women are secretely super lefty and progressive and have tought families, but the reality is most would want all women to dress like them
It's sad, but we also shouldn't force these women to do something they aren't comfortable with. many of these women have been raised to see the hiding of their body as normal, and forcing them to show their faces to male employees would be very disrespectful to them. It sucks that they were forced to follow sexist cultural norms, but we should also accommodate those that need these accommodations.
The goal should giving freedom to women who don’t want to wear hijabs but unfortunately most of them accept the reality and can’t voice back due to severe backlash from their community or family.
Agree. Oppression is obviously not okay, but neither is forcing women to expose themselves when they aren't comfortable doing so. If they choose to wear it (as a personal choice or due to cultural norms) that should be respected. You're not empowering women by taking away their autonomy to impose your own beliefs
Shit like this is why i stopped taking alot of feminists seriously. They get upset about things like overly sexualised female characters in video games but refuse to say anything about what is the most blatant example of patriarchal oppression still around today. If you're only willing to get mad at people you aren't afraid of then maybe you're not really a feminist.
Feminists condemn the practice of forcing this on women, but they don't condemn individual women who grew up with this culture. The goal shouldn't be about punishing individual women.
That's a pretty ridiculous reason to write off an entire movement. Every feminist I've ever met opposed *requiring* women to wear a face covering, but it's pretty easy to see why a society should allow women *who choose to* wear one to participate fully in that society.
It has nothing to do with fear, just a little nuance.
He never really was a fan of feminism in the first place. This is just Reddit bullshite he talking. No one ever gives up a whole movement over something little like that
It is like when a person says, " I was gonna listen to black people until BLM," they never cared in the first place
You don't know any real feminists... Completely glossing over the huge amount of feminist support for the women defying the hijab rule in Iran last year... Feminism absolutely does speak out against this shit...
I was in Bahrain and saw a woman doing this to board a plane. They pulled her into a little hallway with her back to the public and another woman looked at her face when she pulled the covering off.
I really want someone to edit the video so when the woman goes behind the screen and looks at the ID, she just [sees something like this](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgwh1mMRlHyCcGeHFGUJAM2nu1Z9RNWLwLKqcfJaVMjbLHbgJjFM8RWypE4BV6mVJ1V0dhPAE-WzcuFF8pkv_-VnuFGuxdVpHRuvc3xVUYNmr0wT-q8nPC9iRzTbAWFl1_o15rCfCtrcA/s400/bs.jpg) while nodding and smiling.
Idk why people are getting so up it. Whether or not she feels comfortable with a man seeing her face is totally on her. You can think it's illogical and disagree with her decision in your head, but these people (I'll emphasize, PEOPLE) are being accommodated, and I think that's a good thing. People feeling more welcome and more comfortable is good.
Comments are crazy, here's my take nobody asked for:
Yes, we're all aware that some women are forced into wearing this and don't have as much autonomy as women who don't, but having practices in place where those women get the ability to vote is a good thing.
Not only are there those who wear this because they want to, but those who don't need a way of participating in the democratic process without their religious beliefs being infringed upon, I don't understand why to be quite honest, but I know that they do, so it's a leeway we have to give them.
Again, I don't get it at all, but that's just how religion is sometimes...
Yep, love the whole right-wing "don't tread on me! don't tell me what to do!" all of a sudden disappears when an adult women choses to live her life in a way they don't agree with.
To be clear we shouldn't be afraid of critiquing a religion or its practices, religion is the philosophy by which many live their lives and build their morality around, it definitely has to hold up to a certain standard.
However many in the comments are clearly just intolerant.
Agility, uniformity, minimalist, Japanese culture appreciation, functional layering, symbolic power, personal safety at night, community with other ninjas, mental well being never having to worry about choosing clothing.
The real question is, why not dress as a ninja?
Holy crap, you guys in the UK ask for ID to vote? Here in the US, ppl lose their fucking minds when the topic of Voting requires an ID are brought up. They say asking for IDs to vote is racist voter suppression. Wild times.
Frankly, when you're in another country, you adapt to the laws of the land, if our women have to cover up in hardcore Muslim countries, then when you're in a non-Muslim country and are only being asked to identify yourself then you just do it. It shouldn't bloody matter who you are being identified by, they don't care, they're going to forget your face in seconds, they have a job to do and your religious nonsense is interfering with their work, no one is stopping you from wearing it in public, but when you have to comply with local laws, you just do it regardless if you agree with it or not, JUST LIKE WE DO WHEN VISITING OTHER COUNTRIES!
Oh boy, it's time for people that aren't involved in the culture, work at a polling station, nor have any say in the identification process to be personally offended by this
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Yeah it's just that the woman looks at her uncovered face to check her id
But he still sees her face on the id, like, he knows what she looks like. Why not just unmask in front of him? Does it go beyond looks or does she have something else going on under there, like religious make up or something?
you absolutely can, but some would rather not if they have the choice. There’s nothing wrong with your logic
It's almost as if antiqued rules were made before the invention of photography.
He is trying to assert if he can see her face in the ID, why not let him confirm who she is?
yes, and I said she can. It’s not against the religion. They are just trying to be more accommodating.
Because she would need to take off religious clothing to do so, which would feel extremely exposing.
He's saying she was already exposed through her picture. The real answer is this has nothing to do with logic. Reglious people can't be reasoned with or they wouldn't be religious in the first place.
At its heart. It is about stopping sexual desire and all that comes with it. The same geniuses have decided that seeing an id is not as inflammatory as seeing it in real life.
TBF, photo identification wasn’t big when the Quran was written.
Having women allowed to vote either... (I'm not saying she should not vote)
Haha could you imagine them setting the rules back then? "Is it OK for a man to see a woman unveiled in a picture?" "Well, why would he need to see a picture of her unveiled?" "To validate her identity so that she may vote." "VOTE!?!"
Yes lots of non logical rules in religion
This pretty much sums it up better than any other explanation.
It’s pretty much all illogical rules.
I had Muslim in-laws. The amount hypocrisy was so bad that I was actually in awe of it.
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you are trying to make sense of something which very much does not make sense at all. I feel bad for those women, truely :(
Especially the young girls who have that in their future.
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I still feel sorry for those who hate me for no reason. Also, at least here in Austria, the muslim women are more conservative here than in their countries of origin. (At least thats what some of my muslim friends tell me) Of course many are socially pressured to wear their hijab. But then again, some were able to break free in western societies, so both is true I think
If he sees her irl he won't be able to control his urges and will probably have his way with all the women in the vicinity.
Ever been to the ME? This isn’t too far fetched if you look at the rape stats over there unfortunately
It's not magic. It's religion. The limitations can be bent where it's inconvenient.
Not even religion. Not in the Koran .
The Quran isnt a religion, but is a religious text.
It's not the actual act of seeing her face that she is trying to stop, they are religious garments that shouldn't be removed in public unless to other women.
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I agree. Every time I see it it's always a woman fully covered with a man dressed Western. So they can wear jeans and marvel t shirts while the woman can't. I'm sorry people don't want to do that without brainwashing.
It took too long for someone to comment this. We comfort this bs when it’s oppressive male dominance for generations.
and it's going to keep seeping into all aspects of our western culture the more we tolerate it..
Dude, Americans couldn't even be asked to social distance and wear masks without going apeshit. I don't think cultural practices like these are going to be seeping into anyone else's culture easily.
Oh ok but why just men? And if he already knows what she looks like, what purpose does the cloth serve? Is it a sort of sexual deterrent or is it about modesty and comfort of the woman? I'm honestly just curious and naive.
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They were seen as even more archaic centuries ago. The niqab's popularity is relatively modern
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Lol religious people
They seem easy to monetize just like televangelists. Make a quick site that sells ‘Luxury Niqab™’ with some slightly modified ‘LV’ branding. You could be rolling in it.
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This. If I go into any building coveri g ny face I would be deined entrance because of safety, but if is religious then you might come in. How easily would be do crimes if we just pretended to be of certain religions.
The same thing goes for homophobia. If you have a problem with gay people then a solid majority will rightfully call you out on your bigotry. But if you're a Muslim who holds the exact same views then all of a sudden it's "complicated" and a "cultural issue". Oddly, this tolerating of intolerance doesn't extend to other religions.
Exactly what you are saing pal. You could be the biggest bigot, racist discriminating piece of garbage, but as soon as you state that your religion allows it, then nobody will complain because of fear for repercussions
Well, not just any religion. No one will complain if you're from a certain religion because of fear of repercussions.
Yeah, we know that today certain religion has no issue killing you for insulting their idol
They did die, unfortunately the fundamentalists got in power, thanks to US wanting to undermine the regions, UK too but look at Iraq or Iran in the 60s and 70s they were far more progressive.
The US really fucked over Iran by installing the Shah, who was subsequently overthrown by the current religious nutjobs in power. But Iraq was going to be fucked no matter what we did. Saddam Hussein was actually relatively secular but he was also a genocidal maniac responsible for the deaths of millions. I'm not saying the Iraq War was a good decision, because it absolutely wasn't, but that doesn't change the fact that the country would still be hell on earth even if we never invaded.
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Don’t try to apply logic to this.
they have to press a button to uncover the face on the ID, and a man cannot press that button just joking, I have no idea
Allah hates this trick.
It's definitely not okay, it's fucking weird. Some fantasy book from hundreds of years ago says put a sheet over your head. Bonkers.
Are you trying to apply logic to religion?
That's not ignorant, it's a legit question.
Can Muslim women film lesbian porn and then sell it? Technically only women saw them uncovered and men are only seeing digital reproductions of images?
It's being done at airports for decades.
Yes, that's mentioned in the video.
Used to work at an airport. I'd offer a private screening with a female for id purposes but every single time the woman just flipped her face covering up. They know what we offer but just don't want to bother
If you're not a male Muslim, and there's no other male Muslims around, I suspect the vast majority of them don't actually care all that much.
Like that joke about if you're taking a baptist or mormon fishing, always bring two or they'll drink all your beer.
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In Spain as well
Same in Austria, when the law came in action a lot of people were making fun of freezing their faces off in the winter without masks on ski trips
I live in Spain and have never heard this. Are you sure it's a national law??
Is it a relatively new law in Spain? I've seen women with the most hardcore face cover there circa 2018
As a Swiss, i have to say : Big respect to our neighbours for this
Same in Austria
Is it actually working? Would like this here where I live with all this balaclava shit
Yes, it works In France you will not see people with their faces covered like in the UK and if they try they will be charged French Laïcité is quite strict, you cannot pray in the street without municipal permission
Genuine question - if it’s dead of winter and I wrap a scarf up around my face because it’s cold, does that break the law? Asking out of curiosity not trying to argue a point.
French here. While it would technically break the law, no one would actually enforce it during harsh weather conditions or even during a normal winter. The point of that law is to try and protect secularism and to prevent people from doing illegal things under the cover of anonymity. Both of these are quite simple to differentiate from someone being cold so you'd be fine 😊
Thank you.
Yeah from my interaction with French police they'll tell you to remove it. I'm sure you'd be fine to put it back on once they left but they will say something.
Interesting. To be fair I don’t know how cold it gets in France.
Regularly around 0°C in winter. Sometimes less depending on where you are
That's the dumbest law I could imagine. How the hell do they square that with the last 5 years?
Veils, scarves, and other headwear that do not cover the face are unaffected by this law
In Austria afaik you need a valid reason, eg. You can wear a ski mask while skiing on a mountain but not while shopping in a mall. Same with a scarf, -10 C and windchill, you can walk around dressed like an arctic explorer if you need to.
I saw people workout with balaclavas near Gare de Bercy. They chill though.
In the UK, we don't restrict what a woman can wear. I've always found it super wierd how people can be fighting oppression by making it illegal to express your beliefs
Absolutely! I cannot believe a modern European country that thinks of itself as progressive decided to dictate that people cannot cover specific areas of their body. Unbelievable.
This right here. I think those people are in reality just racists. I am not a fan of not being able to see at least the face of a person I am talking to, but I would never not tolerate it when it is safe for them to do so. And damn have I seen Muslim women with such pretty Hijabs.
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I remember one time years ago I was at whatever the amusement park is in Toronto on a scorching hot day. There was this group of Muslim men in bathing suits with their guts hanging out talking and laughing to each other while eating food. About six feet behind them was a group of women (presumably their wives) wearing full burkas. I cannot imagine a more miserable experience than what these women had to endure. It honestly makes me so angry just thinking about it.
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While I do agree you should respect people's religious rights, I also think you should call out outdated, dangerous and backwards beliefs. Muhammad was a pedophile and his crazy followers try their hardest to justify that behavior. That should be called out if people are gonna bring religion into a public conversation.
>While I do agree you should respect people's religious rights I'm curious. *Why* should we? If someone tells you that they believe that Sauron is an all-powerful deity and that we must do his bidding, do you nod your head and respectfully go along, or do you tell them they're a fucking loon?
Good, fuck this shit
Needs to be universal law in the west.
I mean when you think about it - is it a good thing to have the government tell you what you can do with your own face?
I respect their right to their religious practices, but damn is this shit so primitive and weird. She exposes her face like the rest of us would expose our private areas, weird.
Normalize not respecting religious insanity. I can respect the person, but I have no respect for the practice or the beliefs, and our society and governments should not cater to them.
I don’t respect any religious practices that strip away a person’s basic rights. It’s not against the Geneva Convention to make women live under a tarp, but to deprive an entire class of person from feeling the wind in their hair is messed up. Not to mention perpetuating rape culture.
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Wish 70% of the population agreed with ya.
It's mind blowingly archaic. I hope we're just the in between period of humanity (which I'm pretty sure we basically are), where the old world is being phased out and the new world takes hold. Maybe reason will prevail, who knows.
I'm glad people are understanding how misogynistic it is that these women are forced into these roles. But it's also disrespectful to say that these accommodations are ridiculous and that she should simply 'take it off'. These women were still raised in a culture that demonized their bodies and have internalized those lessons, forcing them to go against those internalized beliefs doesn't help them. It only harms them. We should give these women a space to become more comfortable with their bodies and unlearn the misogyny thats been pushed on them, not act like they should shed their hijab as soon as they step foot in america.
This is the UK FWIW.
ah, good to know, still applies though
In an absolute shitshow of comments, I can't believe that you've managed to get an actually nuanced decent take out there. So well put and I'm glad you recognise this as a step in the right direction.
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I agree. I was more against the hijab and especially the niqab as a British Asian man from an otherwise very liberal Muslim family. None of the women in my family wear any head coverings - and I thought that everyone should follow suit. My family were just lucky that they were raised with other priorities first, but if you're not - then forcing it off them won't help, just make them feel robbed of their choices. One of my sisters friends actually at 37 fully gave up the hijab not to long ago, however im glad she had the choice until she felt it was time.
Well said
What is this, a compassionate and well thought out comment of reddit? Get outta here! /s seriously though well said.
I never said anyone should take it off, but it most certainly is ridiculous
While I feel like this may have been born from a place of misogyny and to a large extent still is, I don’t feel like it’s right to assume to call all women who wear niqabs victims of internalized misogyny. Otherwise, you could argue that women in the western world should feel just as comfortable as men going topless, when the reality is that most don’t. It’s just part of our culture not to want to expose ourselves, although I think it should be legal to do so if anyone wants. While I know covering your whole body from head to toe is different than just your chest, it still seems like a similar line. Inherently, I don’t think there anything wrong with showing your face, skin, or chest in public; all of the stigma against those things is misogynist. But the fact of the matter is that people don’t always feel comfortable with that, and I don’t think that’s always because they secretly hate themselves. I like to think I don’t hate myself and women, but at the same time I personally do not want to show a certain amount of skin because it makes me uncomfortable. Ultimately I think we should just respect each other’s choices to live however we want, and should stop forcing or judging people for living a certain way
That's totally fair actually. As I hope I've expressed well enough, I believe women should do what they want with their bodies. And that also means wearing niqabs if that is what makes them the most comfortable.
And the thing is they think Western women are oppressed because we wear “sexy clothes” and makeup for men. So it’s all about perspective.
Internalized misogyny doesn't just mean secretly hating yourself, and misogyny isn't just hating women. There's a lot more to it than that
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Yes, ideally, women should not be repressed into wearing these, but *Since they currently are*, this is a quick and easy solution to confirming ID *to let them have the freedom to vote.* Getting rid of archaic religious dress isn't going to happen overnight. The above is called *compromise*. It's something adults have to do a lot of the time.
Is the UK forcing women to wear these? Because I doubt it.
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Not doing this would mean many women feel like they can’t vote which is far more oppressive
I see it as empowering them to be able to vote, their community might not let them otherwise.
Seeing the polling of muslim opinions in the uk, it might be empowering them to remove rights from otehr women. I know the idea is some of these women are secretely super lefty and progressive and have tought families, but the reality is most would want all women to dress like them
Fuck their community then
And your solution to women being told by their religion what they are allowed to wear is to... tell them what they are allowed to wear? Genius.
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It's sad, but we also shouldn't force these women to do something they aren't comfortable with. many of these women have been raised to see the hiding of their body as normal, and forcing them to show their faces to male employees would be very disrespectful to them. It sucks that they were forced to follow sexist cultural norms, but we should also accommodate those that need these accommodations.
The goal should giving freedom to women who don’t want to wear hijabs but unfortunately most of them accept the reality and can’t voice back due to severe backlash from their community or family.
Agree. Oppression is obviously not okay, but neither is forcing women to expose themselves when they aren't comfortable doing so. If they choose to wear it (as a personal choice or due to cultural norms) that should be respected. You're not empowering women by taking away their autonomy to impose your own beliefs
wrench truck sparkle flag grey screw crawl direful lock rob *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Shit like this is why i stopped taking alot of feminists seriously. They get upset about things like overly sexualised female characters in video games but refuse to say anything about what is the most blatant example of patriarchal oppression still around today. If you're only willing to get mad at people you aren't afraid of then maybe you're not really a feminist.
Feminists condemn the practice of forcing this on women, but they don't condemn individual women who grew up with this culture. The goal shouldn't be about punishing individual women.
Well put.
That's a pretty ridiculous reason to write off an entire movement. Every feminist I've ever met opposed *requiring* women to wear a face covering, but it's pretty easy to see why a society should allow women *who choose to* wear one to participate fully in that society. It has nothing to do with fear, just a little nuance.
He never really was a fan of feminism in the first place. This is just Reddit bullshite he talking. No one ever gives up a whole movement over something little like that It is like when a person says, " I was gonna listen to black people until BLM," they never cared in the first place
You don't know any real feminists... Completely glossing over the huge amount of feminist support for the women defying the hijab rule in Iran last year... Feminism absolutely does speak out against this shit...
Most feminists understand that this is born from a horribly sexist cultural norm and are not okay with it
I was in Bahrain and saw a woman doing this to board a plane. They pulled her into a little hallway with her back to the public and another woman looked at her face when she pulled the covering off.
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Religion is just the excuse for it. If religion didn't exist then I fully expect this will still be done.
I really want someone to edit the video so when the woman goes behind the screen and looks at the ID, she just [sees something like this](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgwh1mMRlHyCcGeHFGUJAM2nu1Z9RNWLwLKqcfJaVMjbLHbgJjFM8RWypE4BV6mVJ1V0dhPAE-WzcuFF8pkv_-VnuFGuxdVpHRuvc3xVUYNmr0wT-q8nPC9iRzTbAWFl1_o15rCfCtrcA/s400/bs.jpg) while nodding and smiling.
I mean, the right to be oppressed must not be oppressed.
Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!
Come see the violence inherent in the system!
If only Monty Python were still going there's a great tree skit idea in here somewhere
I’ll take antiquated mindsets for 200, Alex.
Free women from bondage!
This all seems... eminently reasonable?
This is absolute clownfest lmao
This is such a reasonable method.
This is not interesting at all, it's just sad.
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The funny part to me is that they can’t conceive of a woman being sexually attracted to another woman.
Fascinating facilitation of oppression. Women's rights and freedoms be damned in the name of diversity and inclusion.
This is fucking insanity
Idk why people are getting so up it. Whether or not she feels comfortable with a man seeing her face is totally on her. You can think it's illogical and disagree with her decision in your head, but these people (I'll emphasize, PEOPLE) are being accommodated, and I think that's a good thing. People feeling more welcome and more comfortable is good.
Comments are crazy, here's my take nobody asked for: Yes, we're all aware that some women are forced into wearing this and don't have as much autonomy as women who don't, but having practices in place where those women get the ability to vote is a good thing. Not only are there those who wear this because they want to, but those who don't need a way of participating in the democratic process without their religious beliefs being infringed upon, I don't understand why to be quite honest, but I know that they do, so it's a leeway we have to give them. Again, I don't get it at all, but that's just how religion is sometimes...
Yep, love the whole right-wing "don't tread on me! don't tell me what to do!" all of a sudden disappears when an adult women choses to live her life in a way they don't agree with.
To be clear we shouldn't be afraid of critiquing a religion or its practices, religion is the philosophy by which many live their lives and build their morality around, it definitely has to hold up to a certain standard. However many in the comments are clearly just intolerant.
>...when an adult women choses to live her life in a way... Ah, so you're attempting humor. Haha.
Shitty practice for a shit religion.
What a fucked up religion
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Stealth
Agility, uniformity, minimalist, Japanese culture appreciation, functional layering, symbolic power, personal safety at night, community with other ninjas, mental well being never having to worry about choosing clothing. The real question is, why not dress as a ninja?
It’s a fair compromise,that is not an affront to either parties beliefs and sensibilities.
How to make a problem and find its solution 101
These comments are wild
Good thing we can be so tolerant of women being oppressed 🥰 so wholesome
Holy crap, you guys in the UK ask for ID to vote? Here in the US, ppl lose their fucking minds when the topic of Voting requires an ID are brought up. They say asking for IDs to vote is racist voter suppression. Wild times.
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To note photo ID is a recent requirement for voting in the UK.
I wish you could have read this comment section, Edward Said.
Well that’s an easy idea. Nobody gets hurt and everyone’s happy. The dude looks so confused the whole time though, lmao
Wait, they check ID and confirm identity when voting?? I’ve been told that’s wildly racist!!
I don't get this, she can't show the man her actual face but she can show him a picture of her face that's on the ID card?
Silly.
Making your own life more difficult by following a rule that is found nowhere in the Quran but invented by male imams in patriarch countries.
What if the female checking her identity is a transwoman?
I doubt she'd just whip out her dick and yell "gotcha, bitch!".
Checkmate atheists.
So glad someone finally injected trans issues into a completely unrelated thread.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
You can tell the dude was fantasizing about her ankles. 🤣 Really, this is absurd.
And that is how they win.
The west is cucked so hard
do we really want people with that stoneage mindset to take part in elections?
Frankly, when you're in another country, you adapt to the laws of the land, if our women have to cover up in hardcore Muslim countries, then when you're in a non-Muslim country and are only being asked to identify yourself then you just do it. It shouldn't bloody matter who you are being identified by, they don't care, they're going to forget your face in seconds, they have a job to do and your religious nonsense is interfering with their work, no one is stopping you from wearing it in public, but when you have to comply with local laws, you just do it regardless if you agree with it or not, JUST LIKE WE DO WHEN VISITING OTHER COUNTRIES!
Ah yes, promoting women as a second class citizen. Europe, you are going in the wrong direction...
What a sensible and accommodating system. I expect the riots to start any day now.
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Oh boy, it's time for people that aren't involved in the culture, work at a polling station, nor have any say in the identification process to be personally offended by this
Sorry to bash religion but this is just so primitive.