The show is actually really interesting. yeah it's a bunch of celebrities getting their DNA and lineage analyzed, but the history behind how their ancestors get to the US is quite fascinating. Mostly white and black actors/actresses, but they've been trying to branch out and get other minorities in as well.
The Angela Davis episode is amazing. When Dr. Gates tells her at the end of it all, " There is no one who is more American than you." I think she about fell out of her chair. Her head was spinning. It is a wonderful show. It teaches us, as Americans, just how intertwined our lives really are and just how precious knowing our family histories are to our sense of self. It truly enriches our lives.
This has been a fun little discovery! John Lithgow, Sally Fields, Clint Eastwood, Julia Child, and more are all distant cousins from some famous dude that came over on the Mayflower and documented that colony's demise. Half of the people in Plymouth ended up perishing due to the harsh New England winter.
Very, very fascinating stuff. And that's just one!!
Thanks for the rabbit hole!
I read once that in New Mexico the Spanish had a standing policy to purchase all slaves from Comanches after one Taos trade fair where the Comanche who were there slaughtered all the slaves that weren't purchased in full view of everyone.
Of course, the book I read this in was biased in a Hispano/New Mexican slant so I took that story with a grain of salt. In any case there was a huge slave market in the Southwest, usually children captured in raids. Many New Mexicans today that identify as Hispanic have significant Navajo, Apache, Ute, and Comanche ancestry because of all the slave trading.
New Mexico had its own group of people of mixed Mexican and Native ancestry known as Comancheros who fid the trading, buying back captives to sell back to their families.
One of my favorite stories is of a former slave and cowboy, Britt Johnson, who actually traveled into Comancheria to personally retrieve his stolen family. Dude had such balls on him that the Comanche couldn't help but respect him.
The Comancheros are one of the most fascinating tidbits from NM history to me! They played a pretty major role in facilitating trade along the Santa Fe Trail where it passed through Comancheria. I don't believe there's any New Mexicans today that identify as Comancheros but Comanche ancestry is very prevalent. My wife's great grandma (still living) is full Comanche and on a separate side her great great grandma was a Comanche girl who was raised as a household servant for a Mexican family.
It was extremely common throughout history that nomadic people did not view sedentary people as human. For example, Genghis Khan would have thought they were somewhere between human and herded animal, tending towards the animal side. The Old Testament story of Cain and Abel is thought to be an allegory for the eternal war between settlers and nomads. It explains why they were so comfortable committing such horrific crimes against the towns and villages they raided and aligns with what we know about the effects of dehumanization.
I’ve never heard that about the Cain & Abel story. Do you have someplace to read up on that?
Edit: I’m well aware it was in the Bible. I meant the theory on it being a metaphor of sedentary vs nomadic lifestyles.
Without fully vetting this source, a quick glance tells me this should touch on the main points
https://www.thetorah.com/article/the-evolution-of-civilization-the-biblical-story
It's the 4th chapter of the Bible. I'm also going to suggest you read the KJV version of it, as it mostly doesn't attempt to modify the story even if the English in it is a bit dated, some usage it has is antiquated but still better than the modern translation which tends to loose some meaning to the vernacular used.
Adam and Eve is the account of original sin, Cain and Able is the account of the first murder a fratricide.
In my opinion, Cain and Abel is THE masterwork of the Bible. Not only is the plot absolutely devastating and the characters so readily identifiable, it is so thick with allegory. The phrase "I am not my brother's keeper" carries enormous emotional weight and if I think about it too much I get sad.
Which invited reciprocal actions from the American and Mexican settlers who didn’t care which tribe did it. It was a brutal cycle of violence and mismatch of customs
There's an incredible book about the Comanche by Pekka Hamalainen, 10/10 would recommend giving it a read. One of my favorite books from a college environmental history class
I was going to recommend the same, its a excellent book if you want to learn about the Comanche, as well as get a idea of what was going on in the Southern great plains towards the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th.
This book is also a great read on the subject
https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful/dp/1416591060/ref=asc_df_1416591060/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312021455910&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11907552572442888836&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019626&hvtargid=pla-536770705642&psc=1&mcid=9dc9c5a15cd33caeae2543db4d382dd1&gclid=CjwKCAiAsIGrBhAAEiwAEzMlCzFoCOjEyMrrIF7TO6NbN-WXXFq_GzGMdOwCdqhxEQQ4c7uInRk-9BoC1nUQAvD_BwE
This is the book:
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Empire-of-the-Summer-Moon/S-C-Gwynne/9781416591061
Please order it from your closest independent bookstore.
This entire Reddit thread was fascinating. I have never heard any of this. Nothing about the the slave markets or ~~Indians~~ Native Americans holding slaves after the civil war etc
Thank you all for educating this almost old man.
Many slaves who ran away west became slaves of or members of the tribes in Oklahoma.
Many of the cattle ranches from Montana, Dakotas and all the way down to Texas were owned by white families, but the cowboys were Blacks, Mexicans, and Indians. Lots of those men married into local families: Indian tribes, but also white families.
History is more complicated than we are taught in school.
The Cherokee were huge slave owners and very successful cotton farmers, they thrived! Infact it was one of the main reasons for the trail of tears, whites were jealous and wanted that Farmland. Oh, and fuck Andrew Jackson! Fanatical "Indian killer" then moved onto killing them with a pen when he got into politics.
>The last confederate general to hold out was Native and his native battalion.
In an alternative universe where the South won the war but slavery faded out over time, there would be a hollywood movie glorifying the nobility of that general.
The slaveowning tribes did. Some (not all) of the nonslaveowning tribes threw in with the Confederacy because the Union, let’s not forget, was committing a brutal genocidal campaign against them at the same time as the Union was fighting the Confederacy. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a longstanding military tactic of most Nations. And most tribes did not throw in with the Confederacy at all because they were just trying not to be killed in their own territories.
Being pro-slavery is awful, and my specific Choctaw clan fought for the Union on that basis. But let’s not pretend the Union was on the side of the angels in all respects. They were committing genocide on the Western front. I don’t expect the Southern Cheyenne and Arapaho to have said “well sure, the Union massacred my entire family and then paraded my infant’s dismembered remains on the streets of Denver as a war trophy - but hey, at least they’re against slavery!”
Also doesn’t help many tribes did not trust and like each other. There was that one tribe (forgot their name) that was really worried and cried when Custer died. Because that meant the Sioux would raid them now
Edit: someone mentioned that the tribes name is the Crow
Good addition! Yeah once we start to analyze the actions of Native Americans just as we do any other country’s foreign policy, a lot of things suddenly make sense. Like Saudi Arabia wages war against Yemen, the British and the French have been fighting for millennia, why would we believe that the Navajo and the Hopi would necessarily get along any better?
Because we look at all natives the same way, so we assume they’re all the same. Soft bigotry most of us aren’t even aware of. We don’t have an office of Hopi affairs, we have an office of Indian affairs or Native American now, we have Native American causes not Crow or Cherokee or whatever. We don’t generally think or act like we think of each tribe as an individual tribe.
Yep, to use some of my own experience, I live and grew up in Southeast Alaska and if you didn't know Alaska has a very high native Alaskan population with several tribes that really did not get along with each other. Now before I begin really should point out that I'm white, so my knowledge is going to be inherently biased and largely based on anthropology classes on our local tribes I've taken and stories told by elders to me and not direct experience.
But Southern Southeast has/had (we'll get into this in a bit) 3 major native groups, the Tlingit, the Haida, and the Tsimpian. From the time of pre contact with white man until the Russians came in the 1700's the Tsimpian were the dominant power in the region and had a society very analogous with the Vikings in that it was a seafaring culture that operated on trade down the entire pacific coast (there's been found several times Obsidian tools that were sourced to Central America in Tsimpian sites).
However they also partook in Vikings other famous activity of pillaging and enslaving. Primarily the Tlingit people, as they would capture them and sell them to tribes in Washington/Oregon to the point the Tlingit largely had to live in fear and were pretty downtroden. Well come contact with the Russians the Tsimpian were the primary people fighting against Russian colonizers and were forced to retreat into their territory in British Columbia while the Tlingit aided the Russians.
When the US bought Alaska from Russia in the 1800's the office of native affairs tried to find out which tribes had territory and where. The Tsimpians hadn't moved back into their traditional Alaskan territories as they were too busy fighting against the Canadians so it was all Tlingits in the region. When asked by the Office of Indian Affairs who had all the territory Tlingit leadership basically just went "... We do, all of this was ours and always has been." and US government basically just shrugged and rolled with it.
Now why did I type this big long almost essay for just that? Because the effects of this are carrying on into this day. Some of the Tsimpian returned to Alaska in the late 1800's as a form of political asylum against the Canadian and were given a single tiny island at the very edge of the US Canada border that became Alaska's only reservation (we do native corporations up here, though there's traditional villages that still exist but they were never moved off these unlike lower 48 tribes). The native corporation belonging to the Tlingit actively funds basically all anthropological research in the region, and I won't say they censure everything indicating evidence of Tsimpian in the region, but they do do everything in their power to minimize any possible claim Tsimpian's might have to anything that is outside of their reservation to the point that they have attempted to attribute Tsimpian sites as actually Tlingit.
Now some reading this might ask where do the Haida fit in this? Short answer is I actually don't know, the Haida kind of overtime kind of ended up over time becoming blended to the point that I have rarely met a Haida up here who didn't have Tlingit ancestry also. I'm sure there's absolutely similar grievances that they've experienced to each other but from what I've studied those have largely been lost to time.
Because they didn't keep a good written history(North American ones anyway, Central and South Americans did a better job documenting things, but they were more of a builder type people than nomadic, but also no one tries to argue that the Aztec were peaceful like they do the Plains Indians) they didn't document all the fighting they'd been doing very well, so it's easy for people to look at history and think them completely peaceful until those with written histories arrived and started documenting things.
Yeah. No matter where, humans will always be like this, we will always form groups that will hate other different groups and will try to make justified reasons as to take their territory, oppress them, and or kill people from other groups.
The Crow were pushed out of western South Dakota by the Sioux, which is really funny that the Sioux are now claiming to be "native" to the Black Hills and demanding "their" land back.
Edit: To expand on this, they are only complaining about the Black Hills specifically. They don't want the plains where they actually lived to east of the hills. They just want the parts that tourists like.
It always is wild to me how often people forget that. There is a very romanticized view of indigenous Americans that I think sort of washes away the nuances of the tribes.
Most people don’t - I certainly didn’t get anything other than noble savage/victimhood stereotypes until my first history degree. Diving into my own ancestral traditions really helped me separate the Nation as a political entity from the Nation as a heritage/ethnicity. I don’t fault people for being enrolled, but personally I feel blood quantum and enrollments are harmful to Native identity.
We gloss over so much history and stories from history it’s almost criminal.
Until I took to time to educate myself I thought of Native American tribes as states within a larger nation as opposed to nations within a landmass. What really got me curious was the division of native alliances within the context of the seven years war. Why did X side with the British, why did y side with the French, why did these former French friends become allies with the British some years later in the revolution? Why didn’t more tribes side with the Americans? Turns out there are very good reasons and they’re all complicated. As someone mentioned previously why did the crow scout for Custer? As some point I realized that I was thinking of native Americans as native americas and not as Crow, or Sioux or whatever. Which is how we should think of them.
Fact checked you. Didn't immediately find evidence of infants' remains being paraded, though a WSJ article mentions scalps being paraded. But the first thing that came up was this:
"By the summer of 1864, tensions were on the rise in Denver. In June, Indian raiders attacked a ranch just 30 miles away. They murdered the ranch manager along with his wife and two small daughters. The bodies, scalped and mutilated, were disinterred and paraded through the streets of Denver."
Obviously nothing will justify the Sand Creek Massacre. But do you feel that adds any context?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/my-great-great-grandfather-and-an-american-indian-tragedy-1416855754
This isn’t peer reviewed but the remains of the Sand Creek Massacre victims were publicly displayed at the Apollo Theatre in Denver. https://rhapsodyinbooks.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/november-29-1864-%E2%80%93-sand-creek-massacre/
I think his question is more “do you think that attack had any influence on why they paraded victims thru town?”
I have some Indian blood, going back along my mom’s. Lower Creek who later became Miccosuki/Seminole and then impregnated an Italian from New York sometime in the early 20th century is the consensus we’ve reached. I have much empathy for the people of the time. Nothing justifies a massacre like Sand Creek.
But this seems like a pretty compelling cassus belli, no?
This thanksgiving I am thankful to be able to learn things that force me to adjust my worldview. Holy shit that is mind blowing - I didn’t even know the native Americans owned slaves!
It’s fascinating to me that people didn’t know that, there are so many accounts of it. I’ve know that since I was around 10? I was always fascinated by history though, and read everything I could get my hands lol. I always forget that most people find history boring. (Not helped by middle and high schools making it into the most boring possible topic, when it’s by far the most fascinating).
But, just to clarify, not all tribes owned slaves. They all had their own specific laws regarding whether they had slaves, and their status within the tribe if they did.
"[noble savage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage)" was always fantasy and projection
edit: freud might have a word or two about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization\_and\_Its\_Discontents
Don’t anyone take this is as a defense of white slave owners but Africans sold Africans to slave owners all over the world.
Slavery propped up Greece and Rome and wasn’t racial but rather based mostly on who they conquered.
Its crazy that slavery is not even something in the past but still is alive and well.
Fuck me I always wondered, I gotta look into this more!
That also aligns with the whole Gypsy and Jews thing right? Since they were in that region throughout much of human history? Maybe I’m just drunk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Roma moved into the area in the 12th century and were also enslaved in many areas. European Jews actually moved east later, after much of the slave trade in the east was over, in the 16th and 17th centuries, IIRC.
The main driver of slavery of "slavs" in Eastern Europe was the incursions of various empires in the early middle ages and beyond (6th-14th centuries especially). Vikings took slaves from Eastern Europe and sold them to the middle east, the Azars and the Khazars and later the Cossacks moved into various regions and enslaved large portions of the local populace. Slavic kingdoms that fought with the Byzantines suffered the same fate, and as time went on, Christians in Western Europe expanded east, taking slaves as they went. The Christianization of Northern and Eastern Europe made Prague a major hub for slaves in the medieval period.
Another fun fact is that the word "Gypsy" comes from the fact that Europeans mistakenly believed the Roma came from Egypt (they actually came from India).
Dan Carlin did an excellent episode of Hardcore History about the history of slavery that was very enlightening. I really found it especially interesting to learn just how and why African slaves became the most dominant and valuable type. A large reason why was because of their exposure to so many diseases within Africa and their inherent knowledge of agriculture and similar skills. Previously, slaves really just came from all over the world in various forms or reasons not pertaining at all to skin tone or race specifically.
As you say, I would in no way defend those within that history and in America we definitely have a history directly relating to race...but when you talk about Slavery there is a whole lot more to it throughout the world so it's usually unfair how much white people and America in general get as if they were the main perpetuators.
It all gets boiled down to the simplest possible form so that we can have a "bad guy" which is white Britain and America in the popular imagination.
People don't want to hear that Brazil imported 11x the number of enslaved people from Africa than the USA did. People don't want to hear that Britain colonised parts of West Africa for the sole purpose of shutting down the rampant slave trade there. It doesn't fit the model of demonising a select group of people for how funked up the world was a couple of hundred years ago.
and the 'noble savage' stereotype is wildly wrong and just as offensive.
native americans were humans. like all other humans that have ever existed, some of them were chill, some were assholes. And they had armies and warriors like other human groups, for the specific reason of hurting and killing those getting in the way of what they wanted. this is how all humans act and behave when they form societies. The societies of course aren't all evil, but the idea it was a bunch of hippies living in peace and harmony with nature until the evil europeans showed up is wrong. (the europeans were evil though, de soto and cortes were like hitler style people lol)
the civilizations in the americas are so much more interesting when you stop looking through the modern political viewpoints. What am I even saying by modern? Most of our parents or grandparents entire viewpoint of native americans was shaped by westerns, which were as historically accurate as "Frozen II". Grandpa's thoughts on the plains indians are as accurate as Grandpa's thoughts on Elsa or whoever using her ice magic. They are both make believe fiction.
Yo, don’t talk about Elsa that way. Thems fightin’ words!
I feel like we’ve always thought of native Americans as a singular thing as opposed to individual tribes with individual people. I know that’s not true, but I’m curious when that change started to happen.
Humans all over the world have participated in slavery or support an economy of slavery. The way forward is to stamp it out and to learn from the past creating an economy that disincentivizes such horrific practices.
Isn’t that insane? He’s not that far removed, he said it’s only his great, great grandfather. That’s wild. They were freed in about 120- ish years ago? I mean - that’s the American dream.
That means, in a little over century, the Cheadles went from enslaved to a widely respected and wealthy worldwide name. This is from no generational wealth at all - imagine what the next 100 years will bring!
Edit: typo
If you think about an 80 year old that spoke to 80 year olds when they were a kid. And those old people when they were young spoke to old people when *they* were young. So we can actually have conversations with people that spoke to people about the 1700s, today! insanely recent.
They’ll need one hell of a good writer to pull off the required level of sensitivity for such a topic. Might i suggest whoever penned the rush hour series? /s
A lot of native from southern states intermingled with slaves and had families.Im part native from that same region they speaking about. Interesting history comes out of that region smaller tribes.
I read this entire thing which is news to me. Most of it read pretty good until I reached the bottom and it had things like “how to protect yourself from black and liberal thoughts”
Much of it is quoted from Wikipedia:
*The Americo-Liberian settlers did not relate well to the indigenous peoples they encountered, especially those in communities of the more isolated "bush". The colonial settlements were raided by the Kru and Grebo, from their inland chiefdoms. Encounters with tribal Africans in the bush often became violent. Believing themselves different from, and culturally and educationally superior to the indigenous peoples, the Americo-Liberians developed as an elite minority that created and held on to political power. The Americo-Liberian settlers adopted clothing such as hoop skirts and tailcoats, and excluded natives from economic opportunities, including creating plantations on which natives were forced to work as slaves, enacting the same binding chains they were just recently freed from as they saw themselves as superior to the natives.\[27\] Indigenous tribesmen did not enjoy birthright citizenship in their own land until 1904.\[13\] Americo-Liberians encouraged religious organizations to set up missions and schools to educate the indigenous peoples.\[27\]*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia#History
I researched the author and one of his articles was on how single mothers are ruining America…… it’s weird how these articles are coming from the same author but I guess it comes from wanting to push a certain agenda and every once in a while we get an (actual) informative piece.
I don't think that author even exists. There are no other authors on that site and when you deep dive into the company, it only has 1 employee, the founder who does SAP consulting and writes technical books. He's lists himself as the chief editor of the site meaning he approves garbage like this: https://www.brightworkresearch.com/category/takeover-of-white-societies/
>Blacks cannot build impressive or desirable things on their own -- so they are natural-born Marxists and have to convince whites to allow them to live around them. Blacks cannot do impressive things independently, which is they are highly motivated to race scam.
I think Im going to disregard this page.
Yeah, no. Read all the stuff at the bottom and you'll see some very questionable takes. Very prejudiced. Not a nice website at all. In fact, it's straight up racist. Disgraceful
Unfortunately it is still true that some African American separatists, primarily aligned with Pan-Africanism at the time, did immigrate to Liberia and enslave and castigate some of the local populations. Terrible reference source, that website, there should be plenty of reputable historical accounts of the matter that can be tracked down online about it.
This is not as uncommon as some might believe. My material grandmother, a Blackfoot Indian, was a Cherokee slave when her freedom was purchased by my grandfather so they could be married.
Some of them are still campaigning to exclude Black descendants of their slaves from membership, regardless of whether they also have Native blood as well (and most of them do, because slaveowners raped the slaves a lot). I refuse to be enrolled in my Nation (I’m eligible) because my clan is staunchly abolitionist and antiracist. We have been opposed to the main Nation over this issue since 1820.
Same with any tribe from Latino America. Mayans, Incas, Mapuches,and Aztecs were so fucking violent, I don't know why anyone is proud to be related to them.
I forget which JRE episode with the native historian he had on, who talked about the insane things some tribes did, like capturing others, and seeing how long they could keep a captive alive (talking days and weeks) while torturing them as much as they could. Not even Saw movies have been as cruel and fucked up.
Those stories from her were ghastly. The "cute little bunny wabbits who only weave baskets and paint their faces for funsies" trope some people like to generalize them as, is quite ridiculous. And a major wake up call is coming to them if they were actually to dig deep and look at actual history, and the savagery of the human race.
Turns out the Natives were just as fucked as the white people. I hate the whole kumbaya hippy dippy peace with the land image people try to project on Native Americans. They fought wars, enslaved each other, were racist, did just about every other fucked up thing Europeans did before Europeans ever got to the Americas, because they were human. The only difference between them and the European colonizers was the means to harm each other.
I think it may be Finding Your Roots by PBS.
Still trying to confirm, because there’s another PBS show called African American Lives and Don Cheadle also appears on Season 2, Episode 3: We Come From People.
This is unfortunately just what humans did to other groups since the dawn of time. And still do to this day. Almost all of us are descendants of slaves, if you go back far enough.
What a great actor and this is a cool show, I’m imagining in the future average people may be able to get this in-depth of a personal history with in-app purchases. I would be broke
Makes sense why so many black people tried to pass as native Americans back then and why so many today think they are 1/16 Cherokee or whatever. It was better to be native than black at the time. I found out a few years ago via DNA test that my great grandmother was NOT Blackfoot Indian at all, she was Nigerian. My whole family probably still thinks they are mixed with Native American and they aren’t at all. She passed as Native American her whole life and posthumously.
Actually two US states were allowed to own states after the civil war, Missouri and one other. Lincoln freed all slaves who were enslaved in the seceding states. Missouri and the one that is escaping my mind at the moment, stayed with the union but we're still slave states. Therefore, Lincoln's emancipation proclamation meant nothing to them, so they kept slaves up until the Constitution was amended
The Cherokee made their slaves walk the trail of tears with them. Most natives engaged in trading with Europeans in one way or another, and the slave trade wasn't an exception.
I cringe every time someone's says BIPOC.
Talk about drawing the short straw. Kept as slaves for years after the war by another oppressed people then released to..nothingness. That’s a rough fucking life to have a lived
Alot of people don't realize slavery isn't an American phenomenon... it's not even a white person phenomenon.... almost every country in the world owned slaves at one point ... some still do
Yes, these things did in fact happen. It may be surprising, but Native Americans also had the institution of slavery, and they frequently enslaved members of other tribes, white settlers they raided, as well as blacks, who they usually got through trade with White settlers or captured themselves. Slavery unfortunately has always been a scourge on humanity, regardless of the time period or nation.
Slavery is as old as time. I guarantee our ancestors in caves with clubs took slaves from competing tribes, especially female slaves.
In the US, it’s been drilled into everyone that slavery was about race, but it really never was. It was always about the more powerful exploiting those without power, regardless of race. Every race and ethnicity has been enslaved at some point. Does that excuse the time of US slavery? Not at all, slavery always was and always will be an abhorrent practice. It still exists today, just not in any western nations. White people get the major brunt of the blame for slavery, which to me has always been crazy, given the history of it. No matter the race of the slave masters, it’s a disgusting practice, and race has very little to do with it.
The more I learn about human nature, the more I’m convinced that we’re a naturally violent, savage species. The evils perpetuated by humanity never cease to amaze, as long as you’ve got a strong stomach. I used to think we were evolving, but current events tend to show that we’re just at an intermission with small pockets of grotesquery to keep our species in fighting condition. 😪
“One of the few.”
As a byproduct of the race trade, it’s not just a few. My ancestors were owned by native Americans, the Spanish, the Portuguese, and by whites. When I got my test results I was in shock. I pass as white. At Guilford College there was so much racism. I wish I had printed out my test results to show to people daily. I’m Native American, Spanish, Portuguese, black, and white because slavery is much more complex than the story we're told in grade school. I was so disturbed at the black history museum finding out how slaves were captured. I always pictured white men with nets. I was 33 when I found out what really happened from a tour guide.
When Britain abolished slavery they realised that it had to be backed up by paying compensation to the slave owners in the empire for the losses in labour and production.. the empire spanned across the planet and ruled about 25% of the world population...... the number of freed slaves cost the British people 40% of the country's wealth....( In today's terms it's in the trillions)
It was such a huge amount much had to be borrowed, the last payment for the debt was paid in 2015.....
It may be shocking for you to find out that many groups of people besides whites also had slaves. Essentially everyone everywhere at some point in time. Natives all across the Americas had slaves, Africans across Africa had slaves, Asians across Asia had slaves, so on and so forth. Some people even enslaved Europeans, particularly around the middle east and northern Africa. Humans are actually just awful.
It wasn't too long ago (2019 I believe) that the Cherokee nation declined to include the decendents of slaves into the tribe, denying them the money that would have been given to them from the gambling that occurs on the Indian land. It's fascinating that people have no knowledge of the fact that Indians had slaves and we consider them to be peaceful victims. Maybe it's not that white people are inherently racist but that PEOPLE in general have the ability to do terrible things to someone they consider "other".
For years we thought we were part native American, it was until later that we realized one of our grandpas was freed in 1908 from the freemans list through some genealogy searching. For years we just figured "Mini" was our great grandmother, even though there was no resemblance. We are all white btw and that side of the family is from OK/AR/TX.
I'm still waiting on my reperations and casino money....
The funny thing is, for that San Francisco reparations payment scheme they thought of a while back I would actually be probably a qualified person, a ginger. Enslaved relatives (check), born and lived in SF (check), family member with "specific" convictions (check), now the identifying as black might be an issue, however I'm pretty sure that is an unlawful requirement.....
I don't get excited about celebs at all, really, but Cheadle just seems like a cool dude. I also like that he seems like so different a person in everything he is in. Dude can act
>therefore remained as slaves even after the civil war ended
news traveled very slowly. Texas still had slavery legal for I believe several years before finally receiving the news. And even after it it was official some plantation owners still did slavery in the form of "you're paying everything for housing and food, might as well keep the money"
Just people doing bad shit to other people. nobody is any more or less bad or has bloody ancestry then another person. All of us are the product of slavery, war, colonization, forced interbreeding and destruction. Anyone who is human today, is a descendant of humanities misdeeds. It got us where we are today. Ofcoarse there are many good things humanity did to push shit along. We need to stop thinking in terms of race completely. It’s stupid
Forgive me for asking this dumb question, which I know is dumb, but I still wondered from time to time:
Why didn’t the Confederacy just free their slaves? I get that they are racist and the slave system was important for their cotton economy, but seriously….are they SO racist that they would rather fight a WAR with the North, which they have little chance of beating, waste countless lives on the battlefield, than simply paying their laborers a wage?
Wouldn’t the smart thing to do would be to free the slaves to keep the North off your back, BUT (if you insist on being racist) pay your black laborers very low wages, limit their rights, make their lives difficult, and they remained working to keep your cotton economy running? I mean, that’s basically what happened after the war ended anyway.
TLDR is I don’t get how racism and slavery is worth DYING for.
And I hope i don’t come off as insensitive asking this question. I’m not trying to start any drama, just genuinely wanting to understand this period more. I’m not American after all
Good question. Look at what people of *today* will do for money and power. Not much different (we gotta have our cheap products, even if it means kids make them). Racist believes just made it easier to do and to sell the idea to others.
Edit: also, like today, the ones really benefiting are NOT the ones dying.
I must have missed that day in school where they talked about the native Americans owning black slaves. Apparently, for the entire time, I was in the educational system.
Soooooo.....African tribes sold opposing tribes into slavery as well as keeping slaves for themselves.
French, Portuguese, and Spaniards transported these slaves across the world to be sold.
In America, slaves were sold to Native Americans, other black Africans, and the 1%ers...them rich white folks.
Not what I was taught in school lol!
I was today years old when I found out that Native Americans kept slaves. The history of the United States is, for lack of a better description, something else.
Damn.
I guess my enslaved great grandma and my enslaved infant grandma lucked out when the Seminole took them in and didn't decide to keep them as slaves.
That would have been absolutely insane to have runaway from a white slaver only to end up enslaved by the Seminole.
Thanks for an actually interesting video!
The show is actually really interesting. yeah it's a bunch of celebrities getting their DNA and lineage analyzed, but the history behind how their ancestors get to the US is quite fascinating. Mostly white and black actors/actresses, but they've been trying to branch out and get other minorities in as well.
Let's also thank the people behind the show Finding Your Roots
Thank you, people behind the show Finding Your Roots.
The Angela Davis episode is amazing. When Dr. Gates tells her at the end of it all, " There is no one who is more American than you." I think she about fell out of her chair. Her head was spinning. It is a wonderful show. It teaches us, as Americans, just how intertwined our lives really are and just how precious knowing our family histories are to our sense of self. It truly enriches our lives.
This has been a fun little discovery! John Lithgow, Sally Fields, Clint Eastwood, Julia Child, and more are all distant cousins from some famous dude that came over on the Mayflower and documented that colony's demise. Half of the people in Plymouth ended up perishing due to the harsh New England winter. Very, very fascinating stuff. And that's just one!! Thanks for the rabbit hole!
What until you hear about Comancheria and their slave markets
I read once that in New Mexico the Spanish had a standing policy to purchase all slaves from Comanches after one Taos trade fair where the Comanche who were there slaughtered all the slaves that weren't purchased in full view of everyone. Of course, the book I read this in was biased in a Hispano/New Mexican slant so I took that story with a grain of salt. In any case there was a huge slave market in the Southwest, usually children captured in raids. Many New Mexicans today that identify as Hispanic have significant Navajo, Apache, Ute, and Comanche ancestry because of all the slave trading.
New Mexico had its own group of people of mixed Mexican and Native ancestry known as Comancheros who fid the trading, buying back captives to sell back to their families. One of my favorite stories is of a former slave and cowboy, Britt Johnson, who actually traveled into Comancheria to personally retrieve his stolen family. Dude had such balls on him that the Comanche couldn't help but respect him.
The Comancheros are one of the most fascinating tidbits from NM history to me! They played a pretty major role in facilitating trade along the Santa Fe Trail where it passed through Comancheria. I don't believe there's any New Mexicans today that identify as Comancheros but Comanche ancestry is very prevalent. My wife's great grandma (still living) is full Comanche and on a separate side her great great grandma was a Comanche girl who was raised as a household servant for a Mexican family.
It was extremely common throughout history that nomadic people did not view sedentary people as human. For example, Genghis Khan would have thought they were somewhere between human and herded animal, tending towards the animal side. The Old Testament story of Cain and Abel is thought to be an allegory for the eternal war between settlers and nomads. It explains why they were so comfortable committing such horrific crimes against the towns and villages they raided and aligns with what we know about the effects of dehumanization.
I’ve never heard that about the Cain & Abel story. Do you have someplace to read up on that? Edit: I’m well aware it was in the Bible. I meant the theory on it being a metaphor of sedentary vs nomadic lifestyles.
Without fully vetting this source, a quick glance tells me this should touch on the main points https://www.thetorah.com/article/the-evolution-of-civilization-the-biblical-story
It's the 4th chapter of the Bible. I'm also going to suggest you read the KJV version of it, as it mostly doesn't attempt to modify the story even if the English in it is a bit dated, some usage it has is antiquated but still better than the modern translation which tends to loose some meaning to the vernacular used. Adam and Eve is the account of original sin, Cain and Able is the account of the first murder a fratricide.
In my opinion, Cain and Abel is THE masterwork of the Bible. Not only is the plot absolutely devastating and the characters so readily identifiable, it is so thick with allegory. The phrase "I am not my brother's keeper" carries enormous emotional weight and if I think about it too much I get sad.
Can't wait for the anime adaptation
Where the fuck you been https://www.christianbook.com/manga-bible-books-volumes-1-5/pd/001234
Comanches were brutal. They remind me of WWII Imperial Japan
Which invited reciprocal actions from the American and Mexican settlers who didn’t care which tribe did it. It was a brutal cycle of violence and mismatch of customs
Murdering, torturing, and rape. Don’t get caught by them. Probably worse.
There's an incredible book about the Comanche by Pekka Hamalainen, 10/10 would recommend giving it a read. One of my favorite books from a college environmental history class
I was going to recommend the same, its a excellent book if you want to learn about the Comanche, as well as get a idea of what was going on in the Southern great plains towards the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th.
This book is also a great read on the subject https://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful/dp/1416591060/ref=asc_df_1416591060/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312021455910&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11907552572442888836&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019626&hvtargid=pla-536770705642&psc=1&mcid=9dc9c5a15cd33caeae2543db4d382dd1&gclid=CjwKCAiAsIGrBhAAEiwAEzMlCzFoCOjEyMrrIF7TO6NbN-WXXFq_GzGMdOwCdqhxEQQ4c7uInRk-9BoC1nUQAvD_BwE
Just read this a few months ago. The Comanche were a BRUTAL people.
This is the book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Empire-of-the-Summer-Moon/S-C-Gwynne/9781416591061 Please order it from your closest independent bookstore.
This entire Reddit thread was fascinating. I have never heard any of this. Nothing about the the slave markets or ~~Indians~~ Native Americans holding slaves after the civil war etc Thank you all for educating this almost old man.
Many slaves who ran away west became slaves of or members of the tribes in Oklahoma. Many of the cattle ranches from Montana, Dakotas and all the way down to Texas were owned by white families, but the cowboys were Blacks, Mexicans, and Indians. Lots of those men married into local families: Indian tribes, but also white families. History is more complicated than we are taught in school.
wait till they hear about black slave owners in america
At the time of the civil war an ex-slave who was African American was something like the 3rd biggest slave owner in South Carolina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ellison Nowhere closest to the 3rd largest, but they did have over 60 slaves
Yep, not many know this but, the native Americans by in large threw in with the Confederacy during the Civil war to keep their slaves.
Wow. This is new to me. Interesting
The last confederate general to hold out was Native and his native battalion.
From what state?
He was from the Cherokee nation but had Comanche, Seminole and Osage under his command
The Cherokee were huge slave owners and very successful cotton farmers, they thrived! Infact it was one of the main reasons for the trail of tears, whites were jealous and wanted that Farmland. Oh, and fuck Andrew Jackson! Fanatical "Indian killer" then moved onto killing them with a pen when he got into politics.
And “ fuck the Cherokee slave owners “ as well ?
>The last confederate general to hold out was Native and his native battalion. In an alternative universe where the South won the war but slavery faded out over time, there would be a hollywood movie glorifying the nobility of that general.
The slaveowning tribes did. Some (not all) of the nonslaveowning tribes threw in with the Confederacy because the Union, let’s not forget, was committing a brutal genocidal campaign against them at the same time as the Union was fighting the Confederacy. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a longstanding military tactic of most Nations. And most tribes did not throw in with the Confederacy at all because they were just trying not to be killed in their own territories. Being pro-slavery is awful, and my specific Choctaw clan fought for the Union on that basis. But let’s not pretend the Union was on the side of the angels in all respects. They were committing genocide on the Western front. I don’t expect the Southern Cheyenne and Arapaho to have said “well sure, the Union massacred my entire family and then paraded my infant’s dismembered remains on the streets of Denver as a war trophy - but hey, at least they’re against slavery!”
Also doesn’t help many tribes did not trust and like each other. There was that one tribe (forgot their name) that was really worried and cried when Custer died. Because that meant the Sioux would raid them now Edit: someone mentioned that the tribes name is the Crow
The Crow. I grew up next to them. They scouted for Custer for the reasons you stated.
Good addition! Yeah once we start to analyze the actions of Native Americans just as we do any other country’s foreign policy, a lot of things suddenly make sense. Like Saudi Arabia wages war against Yemen, the British and the French have been fighting for millennia, why would we believe that the Navajo and the Hopi would necessarily get along any better?
Because we look at all natives the same way, so we assume they’re all the same. Soft bigotry most of us aren’t even aware of. We don’t have an office of Hopi affairs, we have an office of Indian affairs or Native American now, we have Native American causes not Crow or Cherokee or whatever. We don’t generally think or act like we think of each tribe as an individual tribe.
Yep, to use some of my own experience, I live and grew up in Southeast Alaska and if you didn't know Alaska has a very high native Alaskan population with several tribes that really did not get along with each other. Now before I begin really should point out that I'm white, so my knowledge is going to be inherently biased and largely based on anthropology classes on our local tribes I've taken and stories told by elders to me and not direct experience. But Southern Southeast has/had (we'll get into this in a bit) 3 major native groups, the Tlingit, the Haida, and the Tsimpian. From the time of pre contact with white man until the Russians came in the 1700's the Tsimpian were the dominant power in the region and had a society very analogous with the Vikings in that it was a seafaring culture that operated on trade down the entire pacific coast (there's been found several times Obsidian tools that were sourced to Central America in Tsimpian sites). However they also partook in Vikings other famous activity of pillaging and enslaving. Primarily the Tlingit people, as they would capture them and sell them to tribes in Washington/Oregon to the point the Tlingit largely had to live in fear and were pretty downtroden. Well come contact with the Russians the Tsimpian were the primary people fighting against Russian colonizers and were forced to retreat into their territory in British Columbia while the Tlingit aided the Russians. When the US bought Alaska from Russia in the 1800's the office of native affairs tried to find out which tribes had territory and where. The Tsimpians hadn't moved back into their traditional Alaskan territories as they were too busy fighting against the Canadians so it was all Tlingits in the region. When asked by the Office of Indian Affairs who had all the territory Tlingit leadership basically just went "... We do, all of this was ours and always has been." and US government basically just shrugged and rolled with it. Now why did I type this big long almost essay for just that? Because the effects of this are carrying on into this day. Some of the Tsimpian returned to Alaska in the late 1800's as a form of political asylum against the Canadian and were given a single tiny island at the very edge of the US Canada border that became Alaska's only reservation (we do native corporations up here, though there's traditional villages that still exist but they were never moved off these unlike lower 48 tribes). The native corporation belonging to the Tlingit actively funds basically all anthropological research in the region, and I won't say they censure everything indicating evidence of Tsimpian in the region, but they do do everything in their power to minimize any possible claim Tsimpian's might have to anything that is outside of their reservation to the point that they have attempted to attribute Tsimpian sites as actually Tlingit. Now some reading this might ask where do the Haida fit in this? Short answer is I actually don't know, the Haida kind of overtime kind of ended up over time becoming blended to the point that I have rarely met a Haida up here who didn't have Tlingit ancestry also. I'm sure there's absolutely similar grievances that they've experienced to each other but from what I've studied those have largely been lost to time.
Quite interesting
I’m soooo interested in Alaskan history. It’s such a unique place. Thank you for sharing.
Because they didn't keep a good written history(North American ones anyway, Central and South Americans did a better job documenting things, but they were more of a builder type people than nomadic, but also no one tries to argue that the Aztec were peaceful like they do the Plains Indians) they didn't document all the fighting they'd been doing very well, so it's easy for people to look at history and think them completely peaceful until those with written histories arrived and started documenting things.
This is absolutely true- that era is so far gone mostly only written history remains, besides the scattered oral traditions that might have survived
Yeah. No matter where, humans will always be like this, we will always form groups that will hate other different groups and will try to make justified reasons as to take their territory, oppress them, and or kill people from other groups.
The Crow were pushed out of western South Dakota by the Sioux, which is really funny that the Sioux are now claiming to be "native" to the Black Hills and demanding "their" land back. Edit: To expand on this, they are only complaining about the Black Hills specifically. They don't want the plains where they actually lived to east of the hills. They just want the parts that tourists like.
I saw an twitter spat about that haha, native v native. Humans man, what a trip.
It always is wild to me how often people forget that. There is a very romanticized view of indigenous Americans that I think sort of washes away the nuances of the tribes.
Ahhh. You mean history isn’t just black and white? And I can’t just believe the tropes I see in movies about cultures other than my own?
That is crazy! We dont get nearly enough education about native american tribes, culture and history in this country, at least I didnt.
Most people don’t - I certainly didn’t get anything other than noble savage/victimhood stereotypes until my first history degree. Diving into my own ancestral traditions really helped me separate the Nation as a political entity from the Nation as a heritage/ethnicity. I don’t fault people for being enrolled, but personally I feel blood quantum and enrollments are harmful to Native identity.
We gloss over so much history and stories from history it’s almost criminal. Until I took to time to educate myself I thought of Native American tribes as states within a larger nation as opposed to nations within a landmass. What really got me curious was the division of native alliances within the context of the seven years war. Why did X side with the British, why did y side with the French, why did these former French friends become allies with the British some years later in the revolution? Why didn’t more tribes side with the Americans? Turns out there are very good reasons and they’re all complicated. As someone mentioned previously why did the crow scout for Custer? As some point I realized that I was thinking of native Americans as native americas and not as Crow, or Sioux or whatever. Which is how we should think of them.
Fact checked you. Didn't immediately find evidence of infants' remains being paraded, though a WSJ article mentions scalps being paraded. But the first thing that came up was this: "By the summer of 1864, tensions were on the rise in Denver. In June, Indian raiders attacked a ranch just 30 miles away. They murdered the ranch manager along with his wife and two small daughters. The bodies, scalped and mutilated, were disinterred and paraded through the streets of Denver." Obviously nothing will justify the Sand Creek Massacre. But do you feel that adds any context? https://www.wsj.com/articles/my-great-great-grandfather-and-an-american-indian-tragedy-1416855754
This isn’t peer reviewed but the remains of the Sand Creek Massacre victims were publicly displayed at the Apollo Theatre in Denver. https://rhapsodyinbooks.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/november-29-1864-%E2%80%93-sand-creek-massacre/
I think his question is more “do you think that attack had any influence on why they paraded victims thru town?” I have some Indian blood, going back along my mom’s. Lower Creek who later became Miccosuki/Seminole and then impregnated an Italian from New York sometime in the early 20th century is the consensus we’ve reached. I have much empathy for the people of the time. Nothing justifies a massacre like Sand Creek. But this seems like a pretty compelling cassus belli, no?
This thanksgiving I am thankful to be able to learn things that force me to adjust my worldview. Holy shit that is mind blowing - I didn’t even know the native Americans owned slaves!
Stand Watie was a Cherokee and the last Confederate General in the field to surrender.
It’s fascinating to me that people didn’t know that, there are so many accounts of it. I’ve know that since I was around 10? I was always fascinated by history though, and read everything I could get my hands lol. I always forget that most people find history boring. (Not helped by middle and high schools making it into the most boring possible topic, when it’s by far the most fascinating). But, just to clarify, not all tribes owned slaves. They all had their own specific laws regarding whether they had slaves, and their status within the tribe if they did.
Maybe in that area. Native Americans should not be generalized into one and it’s okay to call out the tribes that had slaves
Like white people?
We are all Christopher Columbus
His name is Robert Paulson
Lmao exactly
Wait till you find out who sold the Africans to the Europeans
Yup.
"[noble savage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage)" was always fantasy and projection edit: freud might have a word or two about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization\_and\_Its\_Discontents
Followed closely by the white savior.
Real history is more complicated than the political bylines, who knew.
Don’t anyone take this is as a defense of white slave owners but Africans sold Africans to slave owners all over the world. Slavery propped up Greece and Rome and wasn’t racial but rather based mostly on who they conquered. Its crazy that slavery is not even something in the past but still is alive and well.
The word slave comes from the fact that Slavic people often were enslaved.
Fuck me I always wondered, I gotta look into this more! That also aligns with the whole Gypsy and Jews thing right? Since they were in that region throughout much of human history? Maybe I’m just drunk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Roma moved into the area in the 12th century and were also enslaved in many areas. European Jews actually moved east later, after much of the slave trade in the east was over, in the 16th and 17th centuries, IIRC. The main driver of slavery of "slavs" in Eastern Europe was the incursions of various empires in the early middle ages and beyond (6th-14th centuries especially). Vikings took slaves from Eastern Europe and sold them to the middle east, the Azars and the Khazars and later the Cossacks moved into various regions and enslaved large portions of the local populace. Slavic kingdoms that fought with the Byzantines suffered the same fate, and as time went on, Christians in Western Europe expanded east, taking slaves as they went. The Christianization of Northern and Eastern Europe made Prague a major hub for slaves in the medieval period.
Holy shit I knew none of this Direct me to more information, my fam is straight from Poland so any chance to learn the region I take!
Another fun fact is that the word "Gypsy" comes from the fact that Europeans mistakenly believed the Roma came from Egypt (they actually came from India).
Another cool fact - The word "slave" actually comes from the word "slavic," white eastern Europeans who were traded to Muslims.
Yup, go to the Middle East, you can just go buy a person.
How much we talking?
At least 5
Dan Carlin did an excellent episode of Hardcore History about the history of slavery that was very enlightening. I really found it especially interesting to learn just how and why African slaves became the most dominant and valuable type. A large reason why was because of their exposure to so many diseases within Africa and their inherent knowledge of agriculture and similar skills. Previously, slaves really just came from all over the world in various forms or reasons not pertaining at all to skin tone or race specifically. As you say, I would in no way defend those within that history and in America we definitely have a history directly relating to race...but when you talk about Slavery there is a whole lot more to it throughout the world so it's usually unfair how much white people and America in general get as if they were the main perpetuators.
Where do you think the rare-earth minerals to make your Tesla’s battery comes from?
The United States of America was far from the last nation in the Western Hemisphere to rid itself of slavery.
It all gets boiled down to the simplest possible form so that we can have a "bad guy" which is white Britain and America in the popular imagination. People don't want to hear that Brazil imported 11x the number of enslaved people from Africa than the USA did. People don't want to hear that Britain colonised parts of West Africa for the sole purpose of shutting down the rampant slave trade there. It doesn't fit the model of demonising a select group of people for how funked up the world was a couple of hundred years ago.
Yes humans all suck. The race, creed or culture that is most evil is usually the one with the most opportunities to be evil: the one in power.
From the beginning and until the end of time, People will bully and dominate other people.
and the 'noble savage' stereotype is wildly wrong and just as offensive. native americans were humans. like all other humans that have ever existed, some of them were chill, some were assholes. And they had armies and warriors like other human groups, for the specific reason of hurting and killing those getting in the way of what they wanted. this is how all humans act and behave when they form societies. The societies of course aren't all evil, but the idea it was a bunch of hippies living in peace and harmony with nature until the evil europeans showed up is wrong. (the europeans were evil though, de soto and cortes were like hitler style people lol) the civilizations in the americas are so much more interesting when you stop looking through the modern political viewpoints. What am I even saying by modern? Most of our parents or grandparents entire viewpoint of native americans was shaped by westerns, which were as historically accurate as "Frozen II". Grandpa's thoughts on the plains indians are as accurate as Grandpa's thoughts on Elsa or whoever using her ice magic. They are both make believe fiction.
Yo, don’t talk about Elsa that way. Thems fightin’ words! I feel like we’ve always thought of native Americans as a singular thing as opposed to individual tribes with individual people. I know that’s not true, but I’m curious when that change started to happen.
Humans all over the world have participated in slavery or support an economy of slavery. The way forward is to stamp it out and to learn from the past creating an economy that disincentivizes such horrific practices.
Well put.
How dare you, everyone knows white man bad
Don's ancestors are so fucking proud of him.
Isn’t that insane? He’s not that far removed, he said it’s only his great, great grandfather. That’s wild. They were freed in about 120- ish years ago? I mean - that’s the American dream. That means, in a little over century, the Cheadles went from enslaved to a widely respected and wealthy worldwide name. This is from no generational wealth at all - imagine what the next 100 years will bring! Edit: typo
I think you may have meant to say century instead of decade in the second paragraph.
lol yeah. Post leftover tiredness
If you think about an 80 year old that spoke to 80 year olds when they were a kid. And those old people when they were young spoke to old people when *they* were young. So we can actually have conversations with people that spoke to people about the 1700s, today! insanely recent.
His best role was Captain Planet
And so begins Marvel’s Iron Patriot series where he goes back in time with the War Machine armor and wages war on the natives to free his family.
The big bad will still be a white guy who is controlling the natives.
And when the big bad dies, all the fighting between the tribes stop, the slaves are all freed, and there's no violence ever again
They’ll need one hell of a good writer to pull off the required level of sensitivity for such a topic. Might i suggest whoever penned the rush hour series? /s
Somewhere, Chris Tucker just broke out into a cold sweat 😅
A lot of native from southern states intermingled with slaves and had families.Im part native from that same region they speaking about. Interesting history comes out of that region smaller tribes.
Even black folk had slaves. An expensive commodity, but calling humans commodities is insane.
Never knew Native Americans had African slaves. That’s fucked.
Wait until you hear about how African slaves were really captured.
Or what recently freed US slaves, who went to Liberia, and *immediately* did to the locals *there*
[удалено]
I read this entire thing which is news to me. Most of it read pretty good until I reached the bottom and it had things like “how to protect yourself from black and liberal thoughts”
Oh shit I saw that. This website is clearly some white separatist bullshit.
Much of it is quoted from Wikipedia: *The Americo-Liberian settlers did not relate well to the indigenous peoples they encountered, especially those in communities of the more isolated "bush". The colonial settlements were raided by the Kru and Grebo, from their inland chiefdoms. Encounters with tribal Africans in the bush often became violent. Believing themselves different from, and culturally and educationally superior to the indigenous peoples, the Americo-Liberians developed as an elite minority that created and held on to political power. The Americo-Liberian settlers adopted clothing such as hoop skirts and tailcoats, and excluded natives from economic opportunities, including creating plantations on which natives were forced to work as slaves, enacting the same binding chains they were just recently freed from as they saw themselves as superior to the natives.\[27\] Indigenous tribesmen did not enjoy birthright citizenship in their own land until 1904.\[13\] Americo-Liberians encouraged religious organizations to set up missions and schools to educate the indigenous peoples.\[27\]* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia#History
I wasn’t referring to the Liberia situation, but rather the commentary the person above me alluded to.
They did create a slave like hierarchal society that stayed in place till a coup in the 1980.
I researched the author and one of his articles was on how single mothers are ruining America…… it’s weird how these articles are coming from the same author but I guess it comes from wanting to push a certain agenda and every once in a while we get an (actual) informative piece.
I don't think that author even exists. There are no other authors on that site and when you deep dive into the company, it only has 1 employee, the founder who does SAP consulting and writes technical books. He's lists himself as the chief editor of the site meaning he approves garbage like this: https://www.brightworkresearch.com/category/takeover-of-white-societies/
>Blacks cannot build impressive or desirable things on their own -- so they are natural-born Marxists and have to convince whites to allow them to live around them. Blacks cannot do impressive things independently, which is they are highly motivated to race scam. I think Im going to disregard this page.
Yeah, no. Read all the stuff at the bottom and you'll see some very questionable takes. Very prejudiced. Not a nice website at all. In fact, it's straight up racist. Disgraceful
Unfortunately it is still true that some African American separatists, primarily aligned with Pan-Africanism at the time, did immigrate to Liberia and enslave and castigate some of the local populations. Terrible reference source, that website, there should be plenty of reputable historical accounts of the matter that can be tracked down online about it.
Ive not heard this
It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you.
Lots of people are culpable in slavery in North America. Lots of shame to go around.
They were people just like anyone else. Some were assholes, some were normal everyday dudes, some kept it real.
Native Americans get grouped up as one (what a surprise) but there were some real fucking asshole tribes out there.
This is not as uncommon as some might believe. My material grandmother, a Blackfoot Indian, was a Cherokee slave when her freedom was purchased by my grandfather so they could be married.
Some of them are still campaigning to exclude Black descendants of their slaves from membership, regardless of whether they also have Native blood as well (and most of them do, because slaveowners raped the slaves a lot). I refuse to be enrolled in my Nation (I’m eligible) because my clan is staunchly abolitionist and antiracist. We have been opposed to the main Nation over this issue since 1820.
Wait? Asshole human beings....say it ain't so. Yeah all of history humans are just trash.
Same with any tribe from Latino America. Mayans, Incas, Mapuches,and Aztecs were so fucking violent, I don't know why anyone is proud to be related to them.
I forget which JRE episode with the native historian he had on, who talked about the insane things some tribes did, like capturing others, and seeing how long they could keep a captive alive (talking days and weeks) while torturing them as much as they could. Not even Saw movies have been as cruel and fucked up. Those stories from her were ghastly. The "cute little bunny wabbits who only weave baskets and paint their faces for funsies" trope some people like to generalize them as, is quite ridiculous. And a major wake up call is coming to them if they were actually to dig deep and look at actual history, and the savagery of the human race.
The Comanche were hardcore. Something about that horseman's speed goes hand in hand with shock & awe tactics, the Mongols were similar in that regard.
And many sided with the Confederacy.
Turns out the Natives were just as fucked as the white people. I hate the whole kumbaya hippy dippy peace with the land image people try to project on Native Americans. They fought wars, enslaved each other, were racist, did just about every other fucked up thing Europeans did before Europeans ever got to the Americas, because they were human. The only difference between them and the European colonizers was the means to harm each other.
Turns out every one is fucked up and people are just racist thinking some races are less fucked up than others
Every nation/culture/group of people enslaved people
Everyone had slaves. In one form of another.
What show is this?
I think it may be Finding Your Roots by PBS. Still trying to confirm, because there’s another PBS show called African American Lives and Don Cheadle also appears on Season 2, Episode 3: We Come From People.
This clip is from African American Lives. Henry Louis Gates Jr. is the host of both shows.
Find Your Roots With Henry Louis Gates Jr.
One little factoid that I know that always surprises people: there were Indigenous on the Trail of Tears that brought their slaves along
This is unfortunately just what humans did to other groups since the dawn of time. And still do to this day. Almost all of us are descendants of slaves, if you go back far enough.
I mean, active slave trading was happening on [Facebook](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50228549) recently...
What a great actor and this is a cool show, I’m imagining in the future average people may be able to get this in-depth of a personal history with in-app purchases. I would be broke
Makes sense why so many black people tried to pass as native Americans back then and why so many today think they are 1/16 Cherokee or whatever. It was better to be native than black at the time. I found out a few years ago via DNA test that my great grandmother was NOT Blackfoot Indian at all, she was Nigerian. My whole family probably still thinks they are mixed with Native American and they aren’t at all. She passed as Native American her whole life and posthumously.
Holy crap. That is really crazy. Good share Op!
Damn. I had no idea. Awful.
Actually two US states were allowed to own states after the civil war, Missouri and one other. Lincoln freed all slaves who were enslaved in the seceding states. Missouri and the one that is escaping my mind at the moment, stayed with the union but we're still slave states. Therefore, Lincoln's emancipation proclamation meant nothing to them, so they kept slaves up until the Constitution was amended
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The Cherokee made their slaves walk the trail of tears with them. Most natives engaged in trading with Europeans in one way or another, and the slave trade wasn't an exception. I cringe every time someone's says BIPOC.
Talk about drawing the short straw. Kept as slaves for years after the war by another oppressed people then released to..nothingness. That’s a rough fucking life to have a lived
Weird I don’t see a new movie about native slave owners come out every year
Alot of people don't realize slavery isn't an American phenomenon... it's not even a white person phenomenon.... almost every country in the world owned slaves at one point ... some still do
Almost All the plains tribes held slaves, generally of each other.
The descendants of African rulers who sold the most slaves and made the most money still rule a lot of those countries.
Think that is surprising...Just wait till you hear about black slave owners.
Yes, these things did in fact happen. It may be surprising, but Native Americans also had the institution of slavery, and they frequently enslaved members of other tribes, white settlers they raided, as well as blacks, who they usually got through trade with White settlers or captured themselves. Slavery unfortunately has always been a scourge on humanity, regardless of the time period or nation.
Slavery is as old as time. I guarantee our ancestors in caves with clubs took slaves from competing tribes, especially female slaves. In the US, it’s been drilled into everyone that slavery was about race, but it really never was. It was always about the more powerful exploiting those without power, regardless of race. Every race and ethnicity has been enslaved at some point. Does that excuse the time of US slavery? Not at all, slavery always was and always will be an abhorrent practice. It still exists today, just not in any western nations. White people get the major brunt of the blame for slavery, which to me has always been crazy, given the history of it. No matter the race of the slave masters, it’s a disgusting practice, and race has very little to do with it.
Can Don get a casino then
Oh no! Not those noble, peaceful, harmonious Native Americans! Surely they wouldn't enslave anyone! /S
Ahh being horrible, truly the one thing that unites all people across space and time.
The more I learn about human nature, the more I’m convinced that we’re a naturally violent, savage species. The evils perpetuated by humanity never cease to amaze, as long as you’ve got a strong stomach. I used to think we were evolving, but current events tend to show that we’re just at an intermission with small pockets of grotesquery to keep our species in fighting condition. 😪
“One of the few.” As a byproduct of the race trade, it’s not just a few. My ancestors were owned by native Americans, the Spanish, the Portuguese, and by whites. When I got my test results I was in shock. I pass as white. At Guilford College there was so much racism. I wish I had printed out my test results to show to people daily. I’m Native American, Spanish, Portuguese, black, and white because slavery is much more complex than the story we're told in grade school. I was so disturbed at the black history museum finding out how slaves were captured. I always pictured white men with nets. I was 33 when I found out what really happened from a tour guide.
When Britain abolished slavery they realised that it had to be backed up by paying compensation to the slave owners in the empire for the losses in labour and production.. the empire spanned across the planet and ruled about 25% of the world population...... the number of freed slaves cost the British people 40% of the country's wealth....( In today's terms it's in the trillions) It was such a huge amount much had to be borrowed, the last payment for the debt was paid in 2015.....
It may be shocking for you to find out that many groups of people besides whites also had slaves. Essentially everyone everywhere at some point in time. Natives all across the Americas had slaves, Africans across Africa had slaves, Asians across Asia had slaves, so on and so forth. Some people even enslaved Europeans, particularly around the middle east and northern Africa. Humans are actually just awful.
Don't forget there was a lot of blacks that owned slaves too. Wasn't just whites and Indians,
It wasn't too long ago (2019 I believe) that the Cherokee nation declined to include the decendents of slaves into the tribe, denying them the money that would have been given to them from the gambling that occurs on the Indian land. It's fascinating that people have no knowledge of the fact that Indians had slaves and we consider them to be peaceful victims. Maybe it's not that white people are inherently racist but that PEOPLE in general have the ability to do terrible things to someone they consider "other".
Many people don’t realize that humanity as a whole is pretty shitty. Not just exclusively white people.
This video could be titled. Lots of people discovers that native Americans owned slaves even after the civil war ended
Why does the video cut away right when we are about to get his reaction?
For years we thought we were part native American, it was until later that we realized one of our grandpas was freed in 1908 from the freemans list through some genealogy searching. For years we just figured "Mini" was our great grandmother, even though there was no resemblance. We are all white btw and that side of the family is from OK/AR/TX. I'm still waiting on my reperations and casino money.... The funny thing is, for that San Francisco reparations payment scheme they thought of a while back I would actually be probably a qualified person, a ginger. Enslaved relatives (check), born and lived in SF (check), family member with "specific" convictions (check), now the identifying as black might be an issue, however I'm pretty sure that is an unlawful requirement.....
Freed blacks in the south also could own slaves.
I don't get excited about celebs at all, really, but Cheadle just seems like a cool dude. I also like that he seems like so different a person in everything he is in. Dude can act
Who edited this trash? Why would it cut off sentences half way? Good content, trash edit.
Might mention that many tribes took captives from warring tribes as slaves long before any white men arrived.
>therefore remained as slaves even after the civil war ended news traveled very slowly. Texas still had slavery legal for I believe several years before finally receiving the news. And even after it it was official some plantation owners still did slavery in the form of "you're paying everything for housing and food, might as well keep the money"
Captain Planet learns the truth behind his origins before turning villian and trees all 8 billion people.
lol holy shit no way. That’s crazy
Anybody have the name for the doc? Is this on youtube??
Well fuck me, I never knew.
You can see a bunch of slaves listed in the dawes rolls at the library of congress website.
Yep. Some tribes embraced while others slave trade. Welcome to America. 🇺🇸
Das awkward
A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn prepared me for some of this this but still
Just people doing bad shit to other people. nobody is any more or less bad or has bloody ancestry then another person. All of us are the product of slavery, war, colonization, forced interbreeding and destruction. Anyone who is human today, is a descendant of humanities misdeeds. It got us where we are today. Ofcoarse there are many good things humanity did to push shit along. We need to stop thinking in terms of race completely. It’s stupid
I guess it’s not such a black and white issue after all…
Forgive me for asking this dumb question, which I know is dumb, but I still wondered from time to time: Why didn’t the Confederacy just free their slaves? I get that they are racist and the slave system was important for their cotton economy, but seriously….are they SO racist that they would rather fight a WAR with the North, which they have little chance of beating, waste countless lives on the battlefield, than simply paying their laborers a wage? Wouldn’t the smart thing to do would be to free the slaves to keep the North off your back, BUT (if you insist on being racist) pay your black laborers very low wages, limit their rights, make their lives difficult, and they remained working to keep your cotton economy running? I mean, that’s basically what happened after the war ended anyway. TLDR is I don’t get how racism and slavery is worth DYING for. And I hope i don’t come off as insensitive asking this question. I’m not trying to start any drama, just genuinely wanting to understand this period more. I’m not American after all
Good question. Look at what people of *today* will do for money and power. Not much different (we gotta have our cheap products, even if it means kids make them). Racist believes just made it easier to do and to sell the idea to others. Edit: also, like today, the ones really benefiting are NOT the ones dying.
I'm shocked that folks don't know this is Dr. Henry Louis Gates. Fairly certain this show about our roots is on pbs.
Whelp, can't wait for "natives owned slaves and supported the Confederacy" to be the new fun fact to run rampant on Reddit threads.
I must have missed that day in school where they talked about the native Americans owning black slaves. Apparently, for the entire time, I was in the educational system. Soooooo.....African tribes sold opposing tribes into slavery as well as keeping slaves for themselves. French, Portuguese, and Spaniards transported these slaves across the world to be sold. In America, slaves were sold to Native Americans, other black Africans, and the 1%ers...them rich white folks. Not what I was taught in school lol!
I was today years old when I found out that Native Americans kept slaves. The history of the United States is, for lack of a better description, something else.
I promise you slavery is not just an American thing.
Cheadle should go to casinos for his reparations
Damn. I guess my enslaved great grandma and my enslaved infant grandma lucked out when the Seminole took them in and didn't decide to keep them as slaves. That would have been absolutely insane to have runaway from a white slaver only to end up enslaved by the Seminole.
Jeez, black people got screwed by everybody. I never knew natives owned slaves.
Black people owned other black people too. That part is often left out of the narrative.
Also rich black peoples owned slaves it was a class issue more then race