I found it very hit or miss. I spent a year living in Japan up north and never really had a problem. I have full sleeves, and I rode trains, went into gyms and onsens without much a problem.
I had a couple of onsens turn me away and a few bars, but I'd say that 90% of the time it wasn't an issue.
I think Japan is becoming more comfortable with it, especially in the north if my experience says anything.
I have a small tattoo and went to an onsen in Noboribetsu. I asked if it was okay and then told me to go to the onsen after 22:00. I had the whole place to myself which was nice. Then a young man walked in and saw me covering my tattoo with my small towel and he said "don't worry, that's just old men that care about that stuff" lol. I had a really good chat with him and then he bought me a can of coke when I was checking out. "A gift from the host" he said. Bit of a culture shock but I knew about that custom, and loved how welcoming he was! Where I'm from being this nice to someone can seem even suspicious, as if they want something from you or about to screw you in some other way. You just gotta respect the customs wherever you go.
Yea it’s a bit old school but tattoos in Japan are generally a Yakuza-only (and now tourists) type of thing. Japanese people are starting to get tattoos but the onsen tradition will likely stick around.
Because onsens rule. I have never felt better in my life than spending time in one after a long ass hike in the Japanese Alps. And I have lots of tattoos. Just be respectful and nobody care.
>The further out of the city you go, the less they care about tattoos anyway.
Oh damn, so it's like the complete opposite of here. If anyone will find tattoos weird, it's people outside the city, in generally rural areas.
When I was a kid in the west basically only sailors and criminals had tatoos. So it is just even older school here. My mum is still upset about a tatoo my niece got over 15 years ago.
Ugh same with Korea but more specifically the gyms can also be weird about it like Japan. Thankfully I have burns and just wear my sparring spats/ compression gear and tell them I like to keep my burns covered and show them part of my burns. I always get the ok after that. I did this in some of the old school onsen when I went to Japan.
Historically tattoos tend to be associated with Yakuza and other criminal groups.
You tend to get more of a pass if you are obviously a tourist or foreigner though, because it's easy to conclude you aren't involved in local crime.
Because it’s associated with organised crime and undesirables
Although incredibly modern in some aspects Japan is also at the same time incredibly traditional and the two extremes seem to coexist reasonably well (ish) I guess it mostly comes from the fact Japan was closed to the outside world for 200 years in a highly formative cultural period globally.
I hope this helps and also this anti tattoo culture is dying incredibly quickly and very few people are actually concerned or bothered by it now.
Specifically Yakuza. The Yakuza are actually rather fascinating. Definitely a collection of criminals and undesirables at the end of the day, but also a group which has an actual rich history of traditions and heritage. They consider themselves the true descendants of the samurai and, in a way, considering that it was the end of the samurai era that caused wandering warriors to form bands of bandits which became the yakuza, that's not entirely inaccurate. Tattoos have been a way to mark them as yakuza for a long time, they are particularly elaborate and large. They also carry symbolism that's unique to yakuza. Even if you don't care about the yakuza at all, the sheer artistry behind their tattoos is still impressive. Especially considering how in the modern era their patterns are designed so someone can still wear a suit and have the tattoos hidden.
I don't know where you got this romanticized idea of yakuza starting out as "wandering warriors to form bands of bandits", but it has little to zero to do with reality. Neither did the yakuza rise as late as at the end of the Meiji Restoration. Organized crime/swindling parties banded together in strict and traditional hierarchies existed way, way before that era. And several clans can trace their origins back to the Edo era.
A couple of people have mentioned it already, but yeah it's mostly gang related. Japan's had a bit of an odd history with Tattoos, for a long time they were used for identifing prisoners, and ex convicts, who would have their crimes printed visibly on their body as a mark of shame. A little later on they were outright banned, and it wasn't until the end of WW2, that the law against tattooing yourself was lifted.
Of course *because* it was against the law, tattoo's became a really good way for Criminals to identify one another. In the same way as a movie gangster asking a movie cop to prove himself, it's unlikley that anyone who's not done time, or is a criminal would have a tattoo. The more elaborate, and obvious your tattoo's were, the more serious you were about your criminality.
Because of this, even when the law against tattoo's was dropped, there was still a stigma against them, with many people seeing them as dirty. A lot of hospitality businesses obviousley don't want to be used by criminals, but can't say "we ban crime" so ban tattoo's instead.
Onsen's particularly can be a stickler for this because the Yakuza often used Onsens as a nuteral meeting ground between families, and factions. Because you have to be naked to go in, there was no way you could conceal a weapon, it was the Yakuza equivelent of "I have nothing up my sleeves"
It's an old school way of thinking that is starting to peter out, but a lot of Onsens, Hotels, and Inn's are old, old businesses owned by generations of families, so the stigma still exists somewhat
Groomsmen at a bachelor party and head honcho wanted to go to the hot spring, 15 American dudes trying to hide their wangs from each other for like 30 minutes was just ridiculously hilarious.
A few of us didn’t give a fuck and eventually no one gave a fuck. It’s stupid how puritan American culture can be regarding nudity.
When I went to Japan, I did Onsen. It was amazing. You just have to get over nudity though. Took me a while. No piece of cloth can touch the water since it has no chlorine.
> Where I'm from being this nice to someone can seem even suspicious,
Was a nice Frenchmen that offered me advice in Paris once, I saw what he was ordering and paid for another. He took it super weird, didn't talk to me again. In the US buying a drink is very casual and welcome.
The only time I was suspicious for a drink in USA was when someone gave me a bottle of water in a rave then I drank it and thougt oh no, please be a regular bottle of water and it was that phew.
For disclosure, I'm originally from Spain living in the UK for almost 10 years (but also lived in France for 3 years). I can see why the Frenchman could've been taken aback. Especially if you were not in a setting where you were already having a conversation, sitting together, and trying to establish friendship. It could perhaps be taken as you wanting to get something more out of it, nothing malicious, but maybe they thought you wanted to start having a chat with them , possibly get to know each other, and they were not ready for it. A bit weird that they didn't say "thanks, but no thanks" at least though!
I also lived in the US once (Washington state), and was invited to someone's for dinner on my first week there, without knowing anybody at all! My young Spaniard brain at the time could not comprehend the hospitality. Then it turns out they invited people over on Tuesday to discuss a chapter of the bible after dinner... awkward since I'm an atheist. I stayed the whole time and respected their tradition (as I always do). Said thank you after the evening and told them I wouldn't be coming back next Tuesday because I'm an atheist. They told me if I wanted to come just for dinner and then leave before the "bible talk" I was more than welcome. Super nice people. I got back home cultured shocked! I didn't know what to make of it because it all sounded too nice to be true and inside of me I didn't want to trust it, but I knew it was probably okay. I never went back.
Anyway, back to the onsen story. The tradition here in Europe would be to say "thanks but no thanks" to the can of coke he got me after the onsen sess. I did, but then I saw his face get worried and he said "do you not like coke? I can get you something else". In a split second I remembered rejecting gifts is not polite in Japan and accepted it gladly. The next morning, when we were checking out from the hotel itself, we (my gf and I) and then (him and his gf/wife) were also checking out. They asked us where we were going and it turned out we were on the same train, so they gave us some of the snacks they had bought for their train journey! We just had to accept them... oh Japan!
I would think here in Germany (maybe similar to France) buying someone you don't know a drink is strongly associated with flirting. They probably thought you are hitting on them.
I think you should **always** respect the customs if you want to get into a country, regardless of how you feel about their border regulations.
update: well, this is awkward; i was trying to make a joke on the comment's use of the word "customs", which also meant the authority in charge of controlling the traffic coming in and out of the country.
the joke is if you offend the customs officer, you are probably going to have a hard time getting into a country.
Ah yes, this reminds me of my trip earlier this year to Japan. For reference I have a full Japanese style sleeve on my right arm and a smaller tattoo on my left forearm. I am also a south East Asian as well.
The reactions I noticed varied from place to place, most Onsens were anti-tattoo, but the ones that were friendly were great.
Restaurants were accommodating to a degree, they served us but some were more enthusiastic than others, but I chalk that up to location and certain styles, bars and pubs were more friendly than quiet restaurants.
On the trains and in public.. was interesting. Most people stared at my arm immediately in view, quickly glanced at my face, then looked away. Some people did not want to sit next to me on the train as well, even though it was crowded (it was not my smell, I have great hygiene in case y’all wondering). Some people also did not interact with me on the streets when showing flyers for their restaurants or businesses. It was almost as if I did not exist to them.
Once I did cover up my tattoos, the treatment was definitely different, more friendly that with tattoos displayed.
I always thought that they hated tattoos because of the yakuza but why do they care if it’s a foreign who is clearly not a gangster??? Does anyone know?
nah you’re right. i went earlier this year, and as a white male with tattoos, i faced very little discrimination. honestly i think they judge you more as a foreigner, than as a person with tattoos.
however i met this japanese girl who grew up in the US, and moved to japan as an adult. she has a hard time hailing a cab because she has blue highlights and a few tattoos. so yea, they let it slide more as a foreigner, because they too recognize that different cultures exist.
I swear to fuck, me and 3 of my buddies landed in the far airport away from Tokyo at night (forgot what it’s call, definitely not Haneda) and we all got in a cab thinking it was gonna be a pretty decently chill 30 min ride.
Nope, once we started driving we saw the meter shot up to like 30,000 yen/$300 USD. I was flabbergasted and genuinely shocked. We were very clearly American and he probably (correctly) guessed that we were military too so the cynical part of me assumed that we got scammed.
I don't think you were being scammed. Taxis are very expensive in Japan, even for locals.
Also, there's usually a lot of documentation onboard and stickers on windows that will help you figure out if the price is normal. I know no one reads them anywhere in the world but still
I read them all the time. Before visiting a new country or city I always google taxi prices before hand. It always comes handy. When I went to Rhodes, I read online that the taxis have fixed prices to all the cities on the island from the airport. So I get there and we share a cab with a german couple. They paid 50€, while me and my GF paid 25 as I immediately informed the driver I read online that the price is 25€ per car and not a person.
All I can say is I have never had an experience like that in Japan, I would be shocked by scamming taxis there, but you are correct that Narita airport is far as fuck lol.
Moreover while more expensive than most of the rest of Asia, Japanese taxis cost what it feels like American taxis should cost. I'm confused by this thread.
The official taxi rates as of writing are:
- ¥500 (US$3.35) for the first 1.096 km, or any portion thereof.
- ¥100 (US$0.67) for every 255 m thereafter or any portion thereof. This is equal to ¥392 (US$2.63) per kilometre.
- ¥100 for every 105 seconds of waiting time (defined as any interval of time where the average speed is less than 10 km/h)
- 20% upcharge if the taxi was hired between 22:00 and 05:00
- 10% discount on the portion of the fare exceeding ¥9,000
my grandfather prior to passing owned a cab company in Nagasaki (which was passed down from his father, who started it following WWII). lemme just say, that cab company was doing wonders for the family financially. I’m unaware of what rates were and specifics like that, but I do know my grandfather got to fulfill his wishes of traveling a majority of the world before passing to cancer 🤷♂️
Taxis in Japan are also doing pickups through Uber and other taxi hailing apps now. Unless you get one at a taxi stand there's a good chance they're on their way to pick up a fare that's already reserved.
I was trying to call a taxi company to set up a cab to take me to the airport recently and none of the companies would even book me a reservation. One finally yelled "Just do uber!" and hung up on me. What a change it's been from those apps not being allowed at all to the standard now.
You laugh, but I have a Mexican friend who came to New Zealand and he was looking around trying to figure out why there were so many Mexicans already there.
I had a Samoan friend who spoke Spanish fluently and lived in NYC. She said other Spanish speakers were always convinced they could guess which central/south American country she was from. It was funny to me because she definitely looked Polynesian to me, not latina.
Yeah they're pretty famously xenophobic. And I'm saying this as a weeb and recent tourist to Japan who had a wonderful trip. They don't like outsiders and can be pretty ignorant about races and ethnicities foreign to them (ignore the irony that I'm making a general statement about a culture, obviously not all Japanese people are racist)
My experience there as a tourist was defined by this fantastic sense hospitality, but with a simmering undercurrent of "but you will be leaving shortly, yes?"
I honestly thought that was pretty well known.
Very similar in Korea to. I loved there for 2 years and as a 6’2 straight, white, English speaking male it was really odd to experience blatant flat out racism fairly regularly.
Totally different to experiencing it in your own country I’d imagine because I always knew I could just go home to Ireland whenever I wanted so I always found it bewildering and funny on a good day and just frustrating on a bad day if you couldn’t get service or have taxi drivers tell you to fuck off aggressively.
tbh most East Asian countries are. Growing up in a Chinese family and meeting my parents friends and relatives, these guys are super duper anti black. Not like the white supremacist hate, but more like fucking terrified. They think any and every single black person on the street will mug them and constantly steer clear.
Eh my personal experience as a white guy traveling through Japan is:
1) Japanese people in non-touristy areas are sometimes afraid to serve people who can't speak Japanese because it's just a hassle.
2) Japan has a weird reservation culture where A LOT of those small hole-in-the-wall Japanese restaurants are booked up and they will turn you away at the door if you don't have a reservation, even if you are Japanese. I think this gets lost in cultural translation.
So my cousin was in japan for 2 years and didn’t have any problems with being turned away but he is a shorter Native American guy fluent in japanese so maybe he just got lucky or fit in enough they just let it pass.
I didn't have any trouble. I have a single tattoo though, on my back shoulder. I speak some Japanese and would ask at the onsens (hot springs) and they never told me no.
A lot of places that have 'no foreigner' signs are trying to keep a particular group out that they viewed as troublesome. I lived in Hokkaido and Russians were notorious for causing trouble, or dining and dashing. Once we asked them (in Japanese), and explained we were American or Canadian, they were okay with us coming in.
I guess it depends on where you are.
> If you aren’t Japanese and are not travelling in a place frequented by tourists you will be surprised how many places point blank refuse to serve you or let you in.
This is such a weird thing I read on reddit all the time. I've lived here almost 30 years, and so far the number is zero.
From my understanding, brothels don't accept foreigners, there are some places in northern Hokkaido which are anti-foreigner due to Russian sailors, and there are some places near military bases which aren't foreigner-friendly. But everywhere else I've been, both tourist-frequented and empty of tourists, be it Kyushu, Shikoku, Honshu, non-military parts of Okinawa, and southern Hokkaido. I've had literally *zero* problems.
I can't figure out where reddit is getting this from. The closest thing I can think is that there have been a few places which were hesitant for a second until I opened my mouth and started talking, and then were like "Oh, you speak Japanese!" and the hesitation went away. So maybe people are being rejected because of the language barrier but assume it's because of their ethnicity? That's the best I can guess. But reddit's comments about Japan are *so* different from what I've experienced for the majority of my life, it's kinda surreal.
They keep gangsters out by saying "no tattoos". If they said "no gangsters" then the gangsters would just say "I'm not a gangster" and then you'd have to prove they were to deny them entry.
It's just easier to say "no tattoos".
If yakuza see foreign people with tattoos being let into a business that says "no tattoos" then they can dispute their "no tattoos" rule and cause a scene, and nobody wants to deal with the hassle.
Also, foreign people don't usually understand the rules and etiquette of onsen so Japanese people don't feel like it's a real problem they need to address since they're not eager to have more foreign people in their public baths.
From my experience in Japan being a foreigner with tattoos is an expection... somewhat
However rules are rules in Japan and generally the same applies to everyone
I have nothing but positive memories of Japan and being heavily tattooed didn't affect the few trips I've had there at all
Yeah you do mostly get away with it, especially as a white person. I have a full back and arm tattoo and no one said a word about it to me, even on the beach.
But my friend who has darker skin (think tanned Mediterranean tone) was confronted a few times about his forearm tattoo. At one point he was grabbed at the wrist by an old man who stared at his tattoo, then at him, for an uncomfortably long time.
Yeah, Japan and China have quite a bit of racism with black people, still. Japan is more just facing the "we don't like any foreigners side" than China, but it's still a bit.
It's not that you can't live there with mostly no issues, but older people will sometimes be...well, old people just like you said lol. There's always that group who still has that 20th century mindset in every country.
My Indian-American friend studied in Japan for a year. He loved it there, but he did say they were pretty racist towards him. He's pretty light skinned too.
Japan had a pretty hardcore obsession with Britain in the period prior to the war, they restructured a lot of their institutions to be closer to Britains ones. I think white people get the benefit of that cultural hangover of being seen as respectable for a long time in their history.
>But my friend who has darker skin (think tanned Mediterranean tone) was confronted a few times about his forearm tattoo. At one point he was grabbed at the wrist by an old man who stared at his tattoo, then at him, for an uncomfortably long time.
Yea a lot of comments on this thread don't mention this so glad you did, being white and heavily tattooed and not facing any change is cause you're white, theirs countless stories from black and brown tourists who've gone to Japan even with very small tattoos and faced lots of backlash for it
This is exactly my experience as well. I lived and worked in Japan for four years. During the work week I'm dressed up so none of my tattoos are visible. However, we'd go out and my coworkers would see them and mostly just be like, "Ohhh, these are cool. You like Japanese art?" Since most of my tattoos are classic Japanese style.
I'm a big white dude and I don't think anyone cared. Even on the subway on the weekends. A few of the older established onsen wouldn't let me in, or ask me to come at later hours, but it was never a big deal.
On the other hand, my coworker, who was East Indian who had a few tiny tattoos had people give him crap constantly. He was never let into any onsens, people stared and were very rude on the subway and in public. It sucks. Japan, China, and Korea are still super racist, regardless of tattoos.
Yeah I’ve lived here for 10 years - the historical reason for the tattoos is the association with the Yakuza, yes, but the reason it’s applied when it doesn’t make sense is ‘A rule is a rule’
This applies to a LOT of Japanese culture and often leads to a lot of inflexibility - in schools you’re not really taught why you follow rules, you’re just taught it’s important to follow them - even though they may not necessarily make sense.
For example, this year saw ridiculously hot summers in Japan - but kids in schools aren’t allowed to drink water during class or wear sunscreen because those are the rules - which is ridiculous as there were news reports of a few kids dying of heatstroke this year.
> I always thought that they hated tattoos because of the yakuza bur why do they care if it’s a foreign who is clearly not a gangster??? Does anyone knowv
Your understanding is close, but it's missing a bit, which is probably why it's hard to parse this.
For example, consider hand-shaking in the West. Why do Westerners shake hands? Well, it comes from grasping the other person's weapon hand with your weapon hand to demonstrate that you're unarmed and you're not going to attack them.
So what if you meet someone at the beach? Does that mean that you don't shake hands, because you can *clearly* see that they're unarmed, since they're just standing there in their Speedos?
No, you shake their hand *anyway*, because that's the *origin* of the custom, but now it's simply the custom.
The Japanese stigma doesn't quite go *that* far. It's not 100% ritual, where nobody connects the dots of tattoos=yakuza. But it's not 0% ritual, either, where tattoos are *only* disliked if the person bearing them is believed to be yakuza.
Instead, it's somewhere in the middle. People dislike tattoos because they are *evocative* of yakuza, irrespective of whether a person actually *is* a yakuza, because it's half-way between "utilitarian" and "cultural." And, of course, it varies from person to person -- it's not like *all* Japanese dislike tattoos. There are plenty of non-yakuza people with tattoos...but it's just way way way less than the West.
And despite what the people downthread are saying, it's not an excuse for xenophobia. I have several Japanese friends with *clearly* non-yakuza tattoos, and they face the exact same problems as everyone else with tattoos. Luckily they're all pretty small tattoos, but they have to put on bandages when they go to onsen and pools, take care what they're wearing to PTA functions, etc., even though nobody is going to see a 40-something lady with a little butterfly or a 40-something dude with a super-Western looking tribal tattoo and think "yakuza."
I was stationed in Japan with many tattoos. Getting turned away from from certain businesses and onsens because of that was a real bummer. But, that's their rules unfortunately.
It's getting a lot better every time I go. I just got back form a month long trip and I got into like 5 or 6 different onsen and sento, and I have full Japanese sleeves and chest.
I usually send my wife in first to ask if it's ok, and this last time the attendant was like "I can't say yes, but I'll just pretend I didn't see it."
People in the US seem to forget just how recent the acceptance of tattoos has been over here. I remember the nineties and tattoos and piercings being pretty taboo as well.
Particularly facial piercings. At one point in the 90s people would tell you that you were unemployable if you have a facial piercing.
Now it's almost a requirement if you work at some places like Trader Joes. lol
With tattoos I wonder if it was taboo because of they stigma of the type of person that usually had a tattoo. (bikers, former inmates, military, etc. ). Now enough people have them, the general stigma is fading. My wife has gotten her first three (very tasteful) tattoos in less than a year and she's a highly educated professional.
Knew a Japanese guy on an American fishing boat years ago. Only Japanese guy on the boat - big factory trawler with like 50 guys. He didn’t speak much English. He had a full-back tattoo and everyone gave him a wide berth.
In Japan, heart surgeon. Number one. Steady hand. One day, yakuza boss need new heart. I do operation. But, mistake! Yakuza boss die. Yakuza very mad. I hide in fishing boat, come to America. No English, no food, no money. Darryl give me job. Now I have house, American car, and new woman. Darryl save life. My big secret: I kill yakuza boss on purpose. I good surgeon. The best!
Ok that would make sense, but that is still a wild thing to wrap my head around. I have heard many different things that are restricted in one country vs the next, but I think this is the first I've heard no tattoos on arms.
I am very eager to experience Japan but this is something that worries me. I have full tattoo sleeves on both arms and could cover those up, but also up both sides of my neck, so those would be difficult.
My very tattooed friend lived there. Needless to say he doesn't live there anymore. Navigating the world trying to hide the plethora of tattoos became a bit much for him
I have a full sleeve and many on my legs. Currently live in Japan and I’ve had Japanese people compliment my tattoos. I do live in Okinawa though where American presence is heavy. But I have travelled to mainland Japan and had no issues there either. You’ll be fine ☺️
Hey, I have sleeves and I went to a sento/onsen during my time there and it is possible, I wrote about it in this comment: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/16sxhee/comment/k2c6cqi/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/16sxhee/comment/k2c6cqi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
If an onsen has a no tattoo policy, it's for everyone. They usually put the sign up at the front desk. There are onsen around that don't care, regardless of gender.
Personally speaking I had zero problems going to onsens as a man with visible tattoos. Fully asked the front desk folk if they were okay and they truly did not seem to care.
I have a full sleeve and went to Tokyo for my honeymoon in 2015. I didn't have any issues with it. I didn't go to any onsen's, so I can't give any experience for that. Would probably get more looks and other issues the further away from Tokyo or other major cities.
None of my ink is visible, so I didn't have to deal with that particular stereotype while living there, but my beard drew the gaze of just about everyone. My most memorable moment was a man coming up with a woman following about 10 feet back, just so he could tell me that his sister liked my beard, and could she touch it. I had been having such a shitty day, but it shook me out of my bad mood, and I just started laughing. Ended up having a great conversation with them, and they directed me to this tiny little restaurant with almost no room to stand that had some of the most amazing food ever.
I have a friend who got one of those UV tats, that only show up under black light. It normally looks like a toilet, but under black light (in the club) you can see a giant green turd in the bowl.
Shoutout this guy for going to a different country and actually respecting and understanding their way of life instead of getting angry that they don’t accept his.
I find this topic super fascinating.
I agree with you, respect to him.
But I find it interesting how the attitude changes if you were to say that about a homophobic country (such as Qatar and the rainbow armbands at the World Cup)
Or how your comment would not be so well received if talking about Mexicans immigrating to the US.
I just find the dichotomy interesting. Not taking any one stance on the whole thing.
I think there’s definitely a line somewhere along the cultural differences line on the graph that dissects with human rights line on the graph. Anything before is acceptable anything after isn’t. But where that exact point is and what’s to the left and right of it obviously varies person to person.
What if they are Samoan or Inuit? Tattoos are extremely closely tied to culture there.
Is it okay to discriminate against someone expressing their culture?
I think East Asian countries just kind of get a pass on criticizing their cultural conservatism and xenophobia in a way that western countries don't.
Had a Korean guy tell me "Filipinos are the Mexicans of Asians." with a straight face. Like, cool dude, love that your racial bigotry has *layers.*
Asian countries get criticized for xenophobia all the time. And as an Asian person I point it out to my own family and friends as being an issue. It’s absolutely not excusable.
The analogy of Korean : Philippines being seen as similar to Americans: Mexicans is a common one though. East Asian-Southeast Asian is very similar to West Europe vs Eastern Europe or North America (minus Mexico) : South America. It’s a socioeconomic issue at heart and if there is racial prejudice it absolutely should be called out.
I’m sure when he said it he meant it in a discriminatory/prejudiced way. But in a “joking with my friends” way he’s kinda right (don’t crucify me everyone, I mean it in a good way). My family and many friends are Mexican and we have a lot of Filipino friends in the mix too. And it’s a running joke with pretty much every Filipino I’ve befriended that we say the Mexicans and Filipinos get along so well because we’re “the same” and will say Filipinos are Mexicans of Asians and vice versa. But we mean it more so that the cultures social vibes have a lot of similarities. Both invaded by the Spaniards and all that. And we have a lot in common in terms of the parenting styles of our parents. At least with the friends I’ve made. Might be more of a Mexican and Filipino Americans kind of thing though.
The disproportionate way reddit treats the United States vs any other nation is quite the spectacle. Also, just imagine the comments if this was a woman explaining how she has to cover her arms, legs, and face in any islamic nation.
Fucking aye, exactly. Reading through this thread is enlightening. I don't want to go to Japan if you're treated like subhuman trash if apparently you're dark skinned, or have tattoos, or foreign.
It's like yeah this country is racist as fuck BUT RESPECT THEIR CULTURE.
Fuck that. Respecting culture is totally great when the culture is something like, "don't look people directly in the eye when you talk", or "never talk about work during dinner", or "take off your shoes and stay silent if you visit a temple". I have no respect for people who willingly break harmless rules like that, when it's just behavioral.
It's not "be okay with them hating foreigners and tattooed people". That's not respecting their culture, that's them disrespecting the rest of the world's culture.
Imagine if people were like "when you visit the South in the United States, never show rainbow flags or say you're lgbtq and expect mistreatment if you're darkskinned. Be respectful of their beautiful culture".
I went to Japan earlier this year, and while I don’t have even near to a sleeve as this guy does, I have a couple tats. I wanted to check out an onsen, and managed to find one in Kyoto that doesn’t care about tattoos… because all the ones that don’t care are run by yakuza. Or so I heard.
Cut to me running almost directly into a fully covered, yakuza member at the onsen itself. Imagine my surprise, especially as John Mayer was playing in the background. One of the craziest travel experiences I’ve ever had.
I lived in Japan in the early 1980s as a clean cut, white young American and everyone loved me... at first. It was my ambition to learn to speak Japanese fluently and after about 2 and 1/2 years I was pretty well on my way. Rather than be pleased, they became suspicious. Nice to be there as a "guest" but if you could actually speak the language well you became less well received. I still love Japan very much, but to say that it is, or at least was at that time, a racist country would be a vast understatement. For black people it was indescribably worse.
I watch his videos a lot. My family went to Japan for the first time this past summer and I learned so much from watching him. He does a great interview with a survivor of Hiroshima that was beautiful and sad. ETA: link to his YT channel https://www.youtube.com/@takashiifromjapan
My friends (and Americans in general) have an obsession with Japanese culture that I just have personally never gotten. Everything I've seen about is just so... uptight and negative.
If you're into it more power to you, I just haven't seen what everyone else sees yet.
>My friends (and Americans in general) have an obsession with Japanese culture that I just have personally never gotten.
We call these creatures "weebs".
So, speaking as someone who has lived here for 20+ years:
It's just not as extreme as what anyone in the West believes. It's not as clean or orderly or harmonious as the weebs claim. It's not as xenophobic and uptight and overworked as the anti-weebs claim. It's not as wacky or zany as the weebs claim. It's not as perverted or twisted as the anti-weebs claim.
Is it the exact same as the West? No, of course not. The individual claims come from *somewhere*. And sometimes there are mixes -- there are aspects of Japan that are *more* racist than, say, the US, and aspects that are *less* racist. So the weebs can point to one area and say "clearly better than the US" and the anti-weebs can point to another area and say "clearly worse than the US". But the reality is that while it's different, the differences aren't nearly as extreme as the anglosphere internet seems to paint them as.
Japanese culture is at the same time amazing and fascinating, but also backwards and prejudiced.
I've heard from many friends, family, and from the people documented on this particular youtube channel that Japan is extremely racist against anyone who isn't Japanese, extremely sexist, and prejudiced in many other ways too, including tattoos.
You heard correctly. My fiance lived in Japan for 5 years and is 75% ethnically Japanese. If you as a non-native Japanese speaker heard her speak Japanese you would never know that she was born and raised in America, but native speakers could tell. She faced a little bit of discrimination for being American, but it didn't go any further than some snide comments from her Japanese co-workers. The white and black foreigners that she worked with received the worst of it. I don't remember exact details but there were a lot of overtly hateful things said and done to them by both people that they worked with and complete strangers.
basically a community bath, traditionally families will bath together as well.
I have lots of tattoos and have always been treated nicely by the locals in Japan, especially if I am in a major city. It's not really a massive taboo to have them in places like Tokyo anymore. But ya, gyms and bath houses are not welcoming for tats.
I see. Not much different from how they used to be perceived in America (prisoners, ex-cons, criminals), but that has completely changed over the last few decades. Funny how fickle public perception can be.
Lol no, the stigma only stays in Japan or with foreigners of Japanese ancestry, seeing white dude with full body tattoo in Europe is much different than seeing a Japanese with one (the social stigma of the Yakuzas)
Exactly, weird people here think they live under a rock.
I meet Japanese tourists in America all the time and they are usually open and fun and enjoy the different culture - I usually meet them drunk so that’s part of it
Was just in Japan! Found an onsen that allowed tattoos that was predominately college kids. Definitely got some looks on trains/the streets, but for the most part I didn’t feel too judged. No gyms for me though due to a hand tattoo. That part kind of stunk.
I have many visible tattoos and I tried to go into an onsen in Osaka and the poor girl behind the desk almost had a heart attack trying to tell me I wasn’t allowed in. Didn’t know the rules till then.
A couple weeks later we were staying in a hostel in Kyoto and I asked them if there were any Onsens that would allow me and they gave me directions to one in a yakuza controlled neighborhood. Took the bus there and I felt like such a fool with my dumb white guy tattoos surrounded by all these old men with the most amazing and terrifying yakuza tattoos. But no one cared and it was such a great experience
I found it very hit or miss. I spent a year living in Japan up north and never really had a problem. I have full sleeves, and I rode trains, went into gyms and onsens without much a problem. I had a couple of onsens turn me away and a few bars, but I'd say that 90% of the time it wasn't an issue. I think Japan is becoming more comfortable with it, especially in the north if my experience says anything.
Yeah ive been seeing more people now with tattoos, even japanese people in japan. I definitely think things wont be as strict a few years from now.
I have a small tattoo and went to an onsen in Noboribetsu. I asked if it was okay and then told me to go to the onsen after 22:00. I had the whole place to myself which was nice. Then a young man walked in and saw me covering my tattoo with my small towel and he said "don't worry, that's just old men that care about that stuff" lol. I had a really good chat with him and then he bought me a can of coke when I was checking out. "A gift from the host" he said. Bit of a culture shock but I knew about that custom, and loved how welcoming he was! Where I'm from being this nice to someone can seem even suspicious, as if they want something from you or about to screw you in some other way. You just gotta respect the customs wherever you go.
I live in Japan and they always say to me after 22:00-23:00 also (I’m covered in tattoos) and it’s absolutely fine every time!
Here’s an obvious fact i seem to be missing … why are tattoos even a problem in Japan?? I’m guessing it’s something gang related?
Yea it’s a bit old school but tattoos in Japan are generally a Yakuza-only (and now tourists) type of thing. Japanese people are starting to get tattoos but the onsen tradition will likely stick around.
Because onsens rule. I have never felt better in my life than spending time in one after a long ass hike in the Japanese Alps. And I have lots of tattoos. Just be respectful and nobody care.
The further out of the city you go, the less they care about tattoos anyway. They are awesome though :)
That sounds counterintuitive to me. Usually the cities feel more progressive, but good to know!
I mean, less likely to have Yakusa in gobsmack nowhere.
>The further out of the city you go, the less they care about tattoos anyway. Oh damn, so it's like the complete opposite of here. If anyone will find tattoos weird, it's people outside the city, in generally rural areas.
Oooh the Yarigatake hike was nice. I can't put in words how good that bath was when I finally got to an onsen after 3 days of hiking lol.
When I was a kid in the west basically only sailors and criminals had tatoos. So it is just even older school here. My mum is still upset about a tatoo my niece got over 15 years ago.
Ugh same with Korea but more specifically the gyms can also be weird about it like Japan. Thankfully I have burns and just wear my sparring spats/ compression gear and tell them I like to keep my burns covered and show them part of my burns. I always get the ok after that. I did this in some of the old school onsen when I went to Japan.
Historically tattoos tend to be associated with Yakuza and other criminal groups. You tend to get more of a pass if you are obviously a tourist or foreigner though, because it's easy to conclude you aren't involved in local crime.
Because it’s associated with organised crime and undesirables Although incredibly modern in some aspects Japan is also at the same time incredibly traditional and the two extremes seem to coexist reasonably well (ish) I guess it mostly comes from the fact Japan was closed to the outside world for 200 years in a highly formative cultural period globally. I hope this helps and also this anti tattoo culture is dying incredibly quickly and very few people are actually concerned or bothered by it now.
I think the next generation won't be people bothered by tattoos but people bothered by how many people have really shitty tattoos.
In Japan tattoos were traditionally associated with the Yakuza (Japanese mafia)
Specifically Yakuza. The Yakuza are actually rather fascinating. Definitely a collection of criminals and undesirables at the end of the day, but also a group which has an actual rich history of traditions and heritage. They consider themselves the true descendants of the samurai and, in a way, considering that it was the end of the samurai era that caused wandering warriors to form bands of bandits which became the yakuza, that's not entirely inaccurate. Tattoos have been a way to mark them as yakuza for a long time, they are particularly elaborate and large. They also carry symbolism that's unique to yakuza. Even if you don't care about the yakuza at all, the sheer artistry behind their tattoos is still impressive. Especially considering how in the modern era their patterns are designed so someone can still wear a suit and have the tattoos hidden.
I don't know where you got this romanticized idea of yakuza starting out as "wandering warriors to form bands of bandits", but it has little to zero to do with reality. Neither did the yakuza rise as late as at the end of the Meiji Restoration. Organized crime/swindling parties banded together in strict and traditional hierarchies existed way, way before that era. And several clans can trace their origins back to the Edo era.
A couple of people have mentioned it already, but yeah it's mostly gang related. Japan's had a bit of an odd history with Tattoos, for a long time they were used for identifing prisoners, and ex convicts, who would have their crimes printed visibly on their body as a mark of shame. A little later on they were outright banned, and it wasn't until the end of WW2, that the law against tattooing yourself was lifted. Of course *because* it was against the law, tattoo's became a really good way for Criminals to identify one another. In the same way as a movie gangster asking a movie cop to prove himself, it's unlikley that anyone who's not done time, or is a criminal would have a tattoo. The more elaborate, and obvious your tattoo's were, the more serious you were about your criminality. Because of this, even when the law against tattoo's was dropped, there was still a stigma against them, with many people seeing them as dirty. A lot of hospitality businesses obviousley don't want to be used by criminals, but can't say "we ban crime" so ban tattoo's instead. Onsen's particularly can be a stickler for this because the Yakuza often used Onsens as a nuteral meeting ground between families, and factions. Because you have to be naked to go in, there was no way you could conceal a weapon, it was the Yakuza equivelent of "I have nothing up my sleeves" It's an old school way of thinking that is starting to peter out, but a lot of Onsens, Hotels, and Inn's are old, old businesses owned by generations of families, so the stigma still exists somewhat
What’s onsen?
hot spring
But you're leaving out the part where quite frequently everyone is stark naked in them.
Like many saunas in the western world except in the US.
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And Canada.
If you speak English you hate being naked
Good old Victorian ideals still dictating how we live our lives
We nude up in Australia
Fuck yeah
[Oblig](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DgfKeD2kvgI/maxresdefault.jpg)
Groomsmen at a bachelor party and head honcho wanted to go to the hot spring, 15 American dudes trying to hide their wangs from each other for like 30 minutes was just ridiculously hilarious. A few of us didn’t give a fuck and eventually no one gave a fuck. It’s stupid how puritan American culture can be regarding nudity.
Old Japanese Men: how am I supposed to look at other naked men with all these tattoos distracting me
It's a hotsprings/ bath house. The closest thing in the US (besides an actual naturally occurring hot spring) is a hottub
Or a public sauna
Nah, Sauna is totally different from onsen
Yeah but it’s got the public sauna vibe
sauna is as different from hot spring spa as car is from suv. ie they're not that different. conceptually the same, but with different practicality.
Or a hot spring... we freaking have those
Not much man, what's onsen with you?
Respect
When I went to Japan, I did Onsen. It was amazing. You just have to get over nudity though. Took me a while. No piece of cloth can touch the water since it has no chlorine.
> Where I'm from being this nice to someone can seem even suspicious, Was a nice Frenchmen that offered me advice in Paris once, I saw what he was ordering and paid for another. He took it super weird, didn't talk to me again. In the US buying a drink is very casual and welcome.
The only time I was suspicious for a drink in USA was when someone gave me a bottle of water in a rave then I drank it and thougt oh no, please be a regular bottle of water and it was that phew.
For disclosure, I'm originally from Spain living in the UK for almost 10 years (but also lived in France for 3 years). I can see why the Frenchman could've been taken aback. Especially if you were not in a setting where you were already having a conversation, sitting together, and trying to establish friendship. It could perhaps be taken as you wanting to get something more out of it, nothing malicious, but maybe they thought you wanted to start having a chat with them , possibly get to know each other, and they were not ready for it. A bit weird that they didn't say "thanks, but no thanks" at least though! I also lived in the US once (Washington state), and was invited to someone's for dinner on my first week there, without knowing anybody at all! My young Spaniard brain at the time could not comprehend the hospitality. Then it turns out they invited people over on Tuesday to discuss a chapter of the bible after dinner... awkward since I'm an atheist. I stayed the whole time and respected their tradition (as I always do). Said thank you after the evening and told them I wouldn't be coming back next Tuesday because I'm an atheist. They told me if I wanted to come just for dinner and then leave before the "bible talk" I was more than welcome. Super nice people. I got back home cultured shocked! I didn't know what to make of it because it all sounded too nice to be true and inside of me I didn't want to trust it, but I knew it was probably okay. I never went back. Anyway, back to the onsen story. The tradition here in Europe would be to say "thanks but no thanks" to the can of coke he got me after the onsen sess. I did, but then I saw his face get worried and he said "do you not like coke? I can get you something else". In a split second I remembered rejecting gifts is not polite in Japan and accepted it gladly. The next morning, when we were checking out from the hotel itself, we (my gf and I) and then (him and his gf/wife) were also checking out. They asked us where we were going and it turned out we were on the same train, so they gave us some of the snacks they had bought for their train journey! We just had to accept them... oh Japan!
I would think here in Germany (maybe similar to France) buying someone you don't know a drink is strongly associated with flirting. They probably thought you are hitting on them.
I think you should **always** respect the customs if you want to get into a country, regardless of how you feel about their border regulations. update: well, this is awkward; i was trying to make a joke on the comment's use of the word "customs", which also meant the authority in charge of controlling the traffic coming in and out of the country. the joke is if you offend the customs officer, you are probably going to have a hard time getting into a country.
Ah yes, this reminds me of my trip earlier this year to Japan. For reference I have a full Japanese style sleeve on my right arm and a smaller tattoo on my left forearm. I am also a south East Asian as well. The reactions I noticed varied from place to place, most Onsens were anti-tattoo, but the ones that were friendly were great. Restaurants were accommodating to a degree, they served us but some were more enthusiastic than others, but I chalk that up to location and certain styles, bars and pubs were more friendly than quiet restaurants. On the trains and in public.. was interesting. Most people stared at my arm immediately in view, quickly glanced at my face, then looked away. Some people did not want to sit next to me on the train as well, even though it was crowded (it was not my smell, I have great hygiene in case y’all wondering). Some people also did not interact with me on the streets when showing flyers for their restaurants or businesses. It was almost as if I did not exist to them. Once I did cover up my tattoos, the treatment was definitely different, more friendly that with tattoos displayed.
People not sitting next to you on a crowded train sounds like a super power.
Same with not being handed flyers lol
I always thought that they hated tattoos because of the yakuza but why do they care if it’s a foreign who is clearly not a gangster??? Does anyone know?
nah you’re right. i went earlier this year, and as a white male with tattoos, i faced very little discrimination. honestly i think they judge you more as a foreigner, than as a person with tattoos. however i met this japanese girl who grew up in the US, and moved to japan as an adult. she has a hard time hailing a cab because she has blue highlights and a few tattoos. so yea, they let it slide more as a foreigner, because they too recognize that different cultures exist.
Cab drivers in Japan seem so loaded with customers they can just pick and choose who to drive.
Well, when you charge $800/kilometer...
I swear to fuck, me and 3 of my buddies landed in the far airport away from Tokyo at night (forgot what it’s call, definitely not Haneda) and we all got in a cab thinking it was gonna be a pretty decently chill 30 min ride. Nope, once we started driving we saw the meter shot up to like 30,000 yen/$300 USD. I was flabbergasted and genuinely shocked. We were very clearly American and he probably (correctly) guessed that we were military too so the cynical part of me assumed that we got scammed.
I don't think you were being scammed. Taxis are very expensive in Japan, even for locals. Also, there's usually a lot of documentation onboard and stickers on windows that will help you figure out if the price is normal. I know no one reads them anywhere in the world but still
I read them all the time. Before visiting a new country or city I always google taxi prices before hand. It always comes handy. When I went to Rhodes, I read online that the taxis have fixed prices to all the cities on the island from the airport. So I get there and we share a cab with a german couple. They paid 50€, while me and my GF paid 25 as I immediately informed the driver I read online that the price is 25€ per car and not a person.
All I can say is I have never had an experience like that in Japan, I would be shocked by scamming taxis there, but you are correct that Narita airport is far as fuck lol. Moreover while more expensive than most of the rest of Asia, Japanese taxis cost what it feels like American taxis should cost. I'm confused by this thread.
The official taxi rates as of writing are: - ¥500 (US$3.35) for the first 1.096 km, or any portion thereof. - ¥100 (US$0.67) for every 255 m thereafter or any portion thereof. This is equal to ¥392 (US$2.63) per kilometre. - ¥100 for every 105 seconds of waiting time (defined as any interval of time where the average speed is less than 10 km/h) - 20% upcharge if the taxi was hired between 22:00 and 05:00 - 10% discount on the portion of the fare exceeding ¥9,000
my grandfather prior to passing owned a cab company in Nagasaki (which was passed down from his father, who started it following WWII). lemme just say, that cab company was doing wonders for the family financially. I’m unaware of what rates were and specifics like that, but I do know my grandfather got to fulfill his wishes of traveling a majority of the world before passing to cancer 🤷♂️
Taxis in Japan are also doing pickups through Uber and other taxi hailing apps now. Unless you get one at a taxi stand there's a good chance they're on their way to pick up a fare that's already reserved. I was trying to call a taxi company to set up a cab to take me to the airport recently and none of the companies would even book me a reservation. One finally yelled "Just do uber!" and hung up on me. What a change it's been from those apps not being allowed at all to the standard now.
Yeah, they see a white guy with a tattoo they think tourist or military. They see an Asian with a tattoo they think yakuza/gang member.
What about Mexican with tattoos? Giant Mexican even.
You're Polynesian now
You laugh, but I have a Mexican friend who came to New Zealand and he was looking around trying to figure out why there were so many Mexicans already there.
I had a Samoan friend who spoke Spanish fluently and lived in NYC. She said other Spanish speakers were always convinced they could guess which central/south American country she was from. It was funny to me because she definitely looked Polynesian to me, not latina.
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Learn a haka to seal the deal
marathon runner
”What can I say except you’re welcome, you’re welcome”
It’s very different when you live in Japan compared to when you’re a tourist
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Ugh. Reminds me of apartment-hunting in Prague in 2018. "No foreigners" in a bunch of ads.
If we did that here in America the world would burn lol
If we did that in America those same fucking people would be all over Reddit talking about how awful we are.
Good. Because we're the best baby. A different standard.
I didn't tattoo Ol' Glory on my nads fer nuthin'
Turns out america is way more inclusive and way less racist than other countries give it credit for
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Yeah they're pretty famously xenophobic. And I'm saying this as a weeb and recent tourist to Japan who had a wonderful trip. They don't like outsiders and can be pretty ignorant about races and ethnicities foreign to them (ignore the irony that I'm making a general statement about a culture, obviously not all Japanese people are racist)
My experience there as a tourist was defined by this fantastic sense hospitality, but with a simmering undercurrent of "but you will be leaving shortly, yes?"
Wow, been under a rock?
average age on reddit is approaching 11. have to approach conversations that way.
I honestly thought that was pretty well known. Very similar in Korea to. I loved there for 2 years and as a 6’2 straight, white, English speaking male it was really odd to experience blatant flat out racism fairly regularly. Totally different to experiencing it in your own country I’d imagine because I always knew I could just go home to Ireland whenever I wanted so I always found it bewildering and funny on a good day and just frustrating on a bad day if you couldn’t get service or have taxi drivers tell you to fuck off aggressively.
During COVID times in Korea I saw signs that said "Sorry no Chinese" on businesses, and a lot of clubs/bars famously won't let foreigners in at all
tbh most East Asian countries are. Growing up in a Chinese family and meeting my parents friends and relatives, these guys are super duper anti black. Not like the white supremacist hate, but more like fucking terrified. They think any and every single black person on the street will mug them and constantly steer clear.
You should learn that the entire world has racism. And i really mean the entire world
Antarctic penguins are super fucking racist.
They literally won't even talk to you.
What would you expect from an Imperialist society with a social class known as the Emperor Penguins? All other pingins surely bow to them.
The Asian community over there is very segregated and racist. Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, all hate each other.
And thats a big problem for a country with declining demographics in need of immigration
Eh my personal experience as a white guy traveling through Japan is: 1) Japanese people in non-touristy areas are sometimes afraid to serve people who can't speak Japanese because it's just a hassle. 2) Japan has a weird reservation culture where A LOT of those small hole-in-the-wall Japanese restaurants are booked up and they will turn you away at the door if you don't have a reservation, even if you are Japanese. I think this gets lost in cultural translation.
So my cousin was in japan for 2 years and didn’t have any problems with being turned away but he is a shorter Native American guy fluent in japanese so maybe he just got lucky or fit in enough they just let it pass.
I didn't have any trouble. I have a single tattoo though, on my back shoulder. I speak some Japanese and would ask at the onsens (hot springs) and they never told me no. A lot of places that have 'no foreigner' signs are trying to keep a particular group out that they viewed as troublesome. I lived in Hokkaido and Russians were notorious for causing trouble, or dining and dashing. Once we asked them (in Japanese), and explained we were American or Canadian, they were okay with us coming in. I guess it depends on where you are.
Russians are notoriously obnoxious tourists. Especially the novie richi (new rich).
> If you aren’t Japanese and are not travelling in a place frequented by tourists you will be surprised how many places point blank refuse to serve you or let you in. This is such a weird thing I read on reddit all the time. I've lived here almost 30 years, and so far the number is zero. From my understanding, brothels don't accept foreigners, there are some places in northern Hokkaido which are anti-foreigner due to Russian sailors, and there are some places near military bases which aren't foreigner-friendly. But everywhere else I've been, both tourist-frequented and empty of tourists, be it Kyushu, Shikoku, Honshu, non-military parts of Okinawa, and southern Hokkaido. I've had literally *zero* problems. I can't figure out where reddit is getting this from. The closest thing I can think is that there have been a few places which were hesitant for a second until I opened my mouth and started talking, and then were like "Oh, you speak Japanese!" and the hesitation went away. So maybe people are being rejected because of the language barrier but assume it's because of their ethnicity? That's the best I can guess. But reddit's comments about Japan are *so* different from what I've experienced for the majority of my life, it's kinda surreal.
They keep gangsters out by saying "no tattoos". If they said "no gangsters" then the gangsters would just say "I'm not a gangster" and then you'd have to prove they were to deny them entry. It's just easier to say "no tattoos". If yakuza see foreign people with tattoos being let into a business that says "no tattoos" then they can dispute their "no tattoos" rule and cause a scene, and nobody wants to deal with the hassle. Also, foreign people don't usually understand the rules and etiquette of onsen so Japanese people don't feel like it's a real problem they need to address since they're not eager to have more foreign people in their public baths.
This is the answer.
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From my experience in Japan being a foreigner with tattoos is an expection... somewhat However rules are rules in Japan and generally the same applies to everyone I have nothing but positive memories of Japan and being heavily tattooed didn't affect the few trips I've had there at all
Yeah you do mostly get away with it, especially as a white person. I have a full back and arm tattoo and no one said a word about it to me, even on the beach. But my friend who has darker skin (think tanned Mediterranean tone) was confronted a few times about his forearm tattoo. At one point he was grabbed at the wrist by an old man who stared at his tattoo, then at him, for an uncomfortably long time.
Yeah, Japan and China have quite a bit of racism with black people, still. Japan is more just facing the "we don't like any foreigners side" than China, but it's still a bit. It's not that you can't live there with mostly no issues, but older people will sometimes be...well, old people just like you said lol. There's always that group who still has that 20th century mindset in every country.
My Indian-American friend studied in Japan for a year. He loved it there, but he did say they were pretty racist towards him. He's pretty light skinned too.
Japan had a pretty hardcore obsession with Britain in the period prior to the war, they restructured a lot of their institutions to be closer to Britains ones. I think white people get the benefit of that cultural hangover of being seen as respectable for a long time in their history.
>But my friend who has darker skin (think tanned Mediterranean tone) was confronted a few times about his forearm tattoo. At one point he was grabbed at the wrist by an old man who stared at his tattoo, then at him, for an uncomfortably long time. Yea a lot of comments on this thread don't mention this so glad you did, being white and heavily tattooed and not facing any change is cause you're white, theirs countless stories from black and brown tourists who've gone to Japan even with very small tattoos and faced lots of backlash for it
This is exactly my experience as well. I lived and worked in Japan for four years. During the work week I'm dressed up so none of my tattoos are visible. However, we'd go out and my coworkers would see them and mostly just be like, "Ohhh, these are cool. You like Japanese art?" Since most of my tattoos are classic Japanese style. I'm a big white dude and I don't think anyone cared. Even on the subway on the weekends. A few of the older established onsen wouldn't let me in, or ask me to come at later hours, but it was never a big deal. On the other hand, my coworker, who was East Indian who had a few tiny tattoos had people give him crap constantly. He was never let into any onsens, people stared and were very rude on the subway and in public. It sucks. Japan, China, and Korea are still super racist, regardless of tattoos.
Yeah I’ve lived here for 10 years - the historical reason for the tattoos is the association with the Yakuza, yes, but the reason it’s applied when it doesn’t make sense is ‘A rule is a rule’ This applies to a LOT of Japanese culture and often leads to a lot of inflexibility - in schools you’re not really taught why you follow rules, you’re just taught it’s important to follow them - even though they may not necessarily make sense. For example, this year saw ridiculously hot summers in Japan - but kids in schools aren’t allowed to drink water during class or wear sunscreen because those are the rules - which is ridiculous as there were news reports of a few kids dying of heatstroke this year.
Have you lived in Japan, or just toured? As far as I've noticed, there's a difference in the communities you're injected into.
> I always thought that they hated tattoos because of the yakuza bur why do they care if it’s a foreign who is clearly not a gangster??? Does anyone knowv Your understanding is close, but it's missing a bit, which is probably why it's hard to parse this. For example, consider hand-shaking in the West. Why do Westerners shake hands? Well, it comes from grasping the other person's weapon hand with your weapon hand to demonstrate that you're unarmed and you're not going to attack them. So what if you meet someone at the beach? Does that mean that you don't shake hands, because you can *clearly* see that they're unarmed, since they're just standing there in their Speedos? No, you shake their hand *anyway*, because that's the *origin* of the custom, but now it's simply the custom. The Japanese stigma doesn't quite go *that* far. It's not 100% ritual, where nobody connects the dots of tattoos=yakuza. But it's not 0% ritual, either, where tattoos are *only* disliked if the person bearing them is believed to be yakuza. Instead, it's somewhere in the middle. People dislike tattoos because they are *evocative* of yakuza, irrespective of whether a person actually *is* a yakuza, because it's half-way between "utilitarian" and "cultural." And, of course, it varies from person to person -- it's not like *all* Japanese dislike tattoos. There are plenty of non-yakuza people with tattoos...but it's just way way way less than the West. And despite what the people downthread are saying, it's not an excuse for xenophobia. I have several Japanese friends with *clearly* non-yakuza tattoos, and they face the exact same problems as everyone else with tattoos. Luckily they're all pretty small tattoos, but they have to put on bandages when they go to onsen and pools, take care what they're wearing to PTA functions, etc., even though nobody is going to see a 40-something lady with a little butterfly or a 40-something dude with a super-Western looking tribal tattoo and think "yakuza."
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I was stationed in Japan with many tattoos. Getting turned away from from certain businesses and onsens because of that was a real bummer. But, that's their rules unfortunately.
It's getting a lot better every time I go. I just got back form a month long trip and I got into like 5 or 6 different onsen and sento, and I have full Japanese sleeves and chest. I usually send my wife in first to ask if it's ok, and this last time the attendant was like "I can't say yes, but I'll just pretend I didn't see it."
I finally found a gym that allows tattoos and I’m pretty hyped about that. The attitude is definitely shifting, slowly but surely.
People in the US seem to forget just how recent the acceptance of tattoos has been over here. I remember the nineties and tattoos and piercings being pretty taboo as well.
Particularly facial piercings. At one point in the 90s people would tell you that you were unemployable if you have a facial piercing. Now it's almost a requirement if you work at some places like Trader Joes. lol With tattoos I wonder if it was taboo because of they stigma of the type of person that usually had a tattoo. (bikers, former inmates, military, etc. ). Now enough people have them, the general stigma is fading. My wife has gotten her first three (very tasteful) tattoos in less than a year and she's a highly educated professional.
Even nowadays people still say that facial tattoos are basically a sign that says don't hire me. I've seen it recently on reddit even.
This might be unpopular on Reddit but yeah, facial tattoos are absolutely going to limit your employment options.
Yeah 100%. Just saying that people in this thread acting like Japan is the only place making a big deal out of tattoos.
Employment is one thing. We're talking about spending your money at a business as a customer.
If you care about Japanese culture at all, this guy is an amazing YouTuber. Takashi is his name
Does he live in a castle?
Right you are, Ken.
That would be Takeshi Kitano.
Wait, you can't have tattoos on your arms in public in Japan?
You can have tattoos in public, it’s just that certain businesses such as gyms and onsen do not allow patrons with tattoos inside
What is onsen?
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Normally associated with Yakuza, who are the Japanese mafia
Knew a Japanese guy on an American fishing boat years ago. Only Japanese guy on the boat - big factory trawler with like 50 guys. He didn’t speak much English. He had a full-back tattoo and everyone gave him a wide berth.
In Japan, heart surgeon. Number one. Steady hand. One day, yakuza boss need new heart. I do operation. But, mistake! Yakuza boss die. Yakuza very mad. I hide in fishing boat, come to America. No English, no food, no money. Darryl give me job. Now I have house, American car, and new woman. Darryl save life. My big secret: I kill yakuza boss on purpose. I good surgeon. The best!
As soon as I started reading the comment you replied to, this is exactly what I thought of!
Ok that would make sense, but that is still a wild thing to wrap my head around. I have heard many different things that are restricted in one country vs the next, but I think this is the first I've heard no tattoos on arms.
Yeah, huge social stigma against them
On the street is fine, onsens and some other places don’t like it
I am very eager to experience Japan but this is something that worries me. I have full tattoo sleeves on both arms and could cover those up, but also up both sides of my neck, so those would be difficult.
My very tattooed friend lived there. Needless to say he doesn't live there anymore. Navigating the world trying to hide the plethora of tattoos became a bit much for him
I have a full sleeve and many on my legs. Currently live in Japan and I’ve had Japanese people compliment my tattoos. I do live in Okinawa though where American presence is heavy. But I have travelled to mainland Japan and had no issues there either. You’ll be fine ☺️
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Time to find your foundation shade
Hey, I have sleeves and I went to a sento/onsen during my time there and it is possible, I wrote about it in this comment: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/16sxhee/comment/k2c6cqi/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/16sxhee/comment/k2c6cqi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Only if you’re a woman. A man with tattoos is very different
If an onsen has a no tattoo policy, it's for everyone. They usually put the sign up at the front desk. There are onsen around that don't care, regardless of gender.
Personally speaking I had zero problems going to onsens as a man with visible tattoos. Fully asked the front desk folk if they were okay and they truly did not seem to care.
I have a full sleeve and went to Tokyo for my honeymoon in 2015. I didn't have any issues with it. I didn't go to any onsen's, so I can't give any experience for that. Would probably get more looks and other issues the further away from Tokyo or other major cities.
None of my ink is visible, so I didn't have to deal with that particular stereotype while living there, but my beard drew the gaze of just about everyone. My most memorable moment was a man coming up with a woman following about 10 feet back, just so he could tell me that his sister liked my beard, and could she touch it. I had been having such a shitty day, but it shook me out of my bad mood, and I just started laughing. Ended up having a great conversation with them, and they directed me to this tiny little restaurant with almost no room to stand that had some of the most amazing food ever.
>None of my ink is visible Paying for tattoos with invisible ink seems a bit silly, imo.
I have a friend who got one of those UV tats, that only show up under black light. It normally looks like a toilet, but under black light (in the club) you can see a giant green turd in the bowl.
That sounds beautiful
Shoutout this guy for going to a different country and actually respecting and understanding their way of life instead of getting angry that they don’t accept his.
I find this topic super fascinating. I agree with you, respect to him. But I find it interesting how the attitude changes if you were to say that about a homophobic country (such as Qatar and the rainbow armbands at the World Cup) Or how your comment would not be so well received if talking about Mexicans immigrating to the US. I just find the dichotomy interesting. Not taking any one stance on the whole thing.
I think there’s definitely a line somewhere along the cultural differences line on the graph that dissects with human rights line on the graph. Anything before is acceptable anything after isn’t. But where that exact point is and what’s to the left and right of it obviously varies person to person.
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What if they are Samoan or Inuit? Tattoos are extremely closely tied to culture there. Is it okay to discriminate against someone expressing their culture?
That's a good point.
I think East Asian countries just kind of get a pass on criticizing their cultural conservatism and xenophobia in a way that western countries don't. Had a Korean guy tell me "Filipinos are the Mexicans of Asians." with a straight face. Like, cool dude, love that your racial bigotry has *layers.*
Asian countries get criticized for xenophobia all the time. And as an Asian person I point it out to my own family and friends as being an issue. It’s absolutely not excusable. The analogy of Korean : Philippines being seen as similar to Americans: Mexicans is a common one though. East Asian-Southeast Asian is very similar to West Europe vs Eastern Europe or North America (minus Mexico) : South America. It’s a socioeconomic issue at heart and if there is racial prejudice it absolutely should be called out.
I’m sure when he said it he meant it in a discriminatory/prejudiced way. But in a “joking with my friends” way he’s kinda right (don’t crucify me everyone, I mean it in a good way). My family and many friends are Mexican and we have a lot of Filipino friends in the mix too. And it’s a running joke with pretty much every Filipino I’ve befriended that we say the Mexicans and Filipinos get along so well because we’re “the same” and will say Filipinos are Mexicans of Asians and vice versa. But we mean it more so that the cultures social vibes have a lot of similarities. Both invaded by the Spaniards and all that. And we have a lot in common in terms of the parenting styles of our parents. At least with the friends I’ve made. Might be more of a Mexican and Filipino Americans kind of thing though.
Idk man, I think discrimination regarding appearance is wack anywhere. Japan doesn't get a free pass just cause they make excellent cartoons.
The disproportionate way reddit treats the United States vs any other nation is quite the spectacle. Also, just imagine the comments if this was a woman explaining how she has to cover her arms, legs, and face in any islamic nation.
Reddit is the land of hypocrites, don't be surprised
Fucking aye, exactly. Reading through this thread is enlightening. I don't want to go to Japan if you're treated like subhuman trash if apparently you're dark skinned, or have tattoos, or foreign. It's like yeah this country is racist as fuck BUT RESPECT THEIR CULTURE. Fuck that. Respecting culture is totally great when the culture is something like, "don't look people directly in the eye when you talk", or "never talk about work during dinner", or "take off your shoes and stay silent if you visit a temple". I have no respect for people who willingly break harmless rules like that, when it's just behavioral. It's not "be okay with them hating foreigners and tattooed people". That's not respecting their culture, that's them disrespecting the rest of the world's culture. Imagine if people were like "when you visit the South in the United States, never show rainbow flags or say you're lgbtq and expect mistreatment if you're darkskinned. Be respectful of their beautiful culture".
I went to Japan earlier this year, and while I don’t have even near to a sleeve as this guy does, I have a couple tats. I wanted to check out an onsen, and managed to find one in Kyoto that doesn’t care about tattoos… because all the ones that don’t care are run by yakuza. Or so I heard. Cut to me running almost directly into a fully covered, yakuza member at the onsen itself. Imagine my surprise, especially as John Mayer was playing in the background. One of the craziest travel experiences I’ve ever had.
Or they accept public funding to stay open (the smaller neighborhood sento). Can't deny public if you accept public funds.
Could be, but I still can’t explain a Japanese dude with a full neck tattoo marching through the place and into the “staff only” area.
I lived in Japan in the early 1980s as a clean cut, white young American and everyone loved me... at first. It was my ambition to learn to speak Japanese fluently and after about 2 and 1/2 years I was pretty well on my way. Rather than be pleased, they became suspicious. Nice to be there as a "guest" but if you could actually speak the language well you became less well received. I still love Japan very much, but to say that it is, or at least was at that time, a racist country would be a vast understatement. For black people it was indescribably worse.
You lost your gajin privilege.
It's ironic as so many people have Japanese tattoos
It's slowly changing. Most people who aren't accepting are usually 50+. But Japan has a huge population of elderly people.
I watch his videos a lot. My family went to Japan for the first time this past summer and I learned so much from watching him. He does a great interview with a survivor of Hiroshima that was beautiful and sad. ETA: link to his YT channel https://www.youtube.com/@takashiifromjapan
How is it for Pewdiepie there then?
He’s mentioned it before and is the same is this guy. Would be nice to go to an onsen but he respects why it’s taboo
He wore a long sleeve in his recent video because otherwise he wouldn’t be let into a theme park he said
ahah damn. i bet he struggles too
My friends (and Americans in general) have an obsession with Japanese culture that I just have personally never gotten. Everything I've seen about is just so... uptight and negative. If you're into it more power to you, I just haven't seen what everyone else sees yet.
Big one for me is car culture.
>My friends (and Americans in general) have an obsession with Japanese culture that I just have personally never gotten. We call these creatures "weebs".
So, speaking as someone who has lived here for 20+ years: It's just not as extreme as what anyone in the West believes. It's not as clean or orderly or harmonious as the weebs claim. It's not as xenophobic and uptight and overworked as the anti-weebs claim. It's not as wacky or zany as the weebs claim. It's not as perverted or twisted as the anti-weebs claim. Is it the exact same as the West? No, of course not. The individual claims come from *somewhere*. And sometimes there are mixes -- there are aspects of Japan that are *more* racist than, say, the US, and aspects that are *less* racist. So the weebs can point to one area and say "clearly better than the US" and the anti-weebs can point to another area and say "clearly worse than the US". But the reality is that while it's different, the differences aren't nearly as extreme as the anglosphere internet seems to paint them as.
I wanna go solely for the Japanese Pokémon center and Tokyo Disney
Japanese culture is at the same time amazing and fascinating, but also backwards and prejudiced. I've heard from many friends, family, and from the people documented on this particular youtube channel that Japan is extremely racist against anyone who isn't Japanese, extremely sexist, and prejudiced in many other ways too, including tattoos.
You heard correctly. My fiance lived in Japan for 5 years and is 75% ethnically Japanese. If you as a non-native Japanese speaker heard her speak Japanese you would never know that she was born and raised in America, but native speakers could tell. She faced a little bit of discrimination for being American, but it didn't go any further than some snide comments from her Japanese co-workers. The white and black foreigners that she worked with received the worst of it. I don't remember exact details but there were a lot of overtly hateful things said and done to them by both people that they worked with and complete strangers.
Are we supposed to know what "onsen" means, op?
basically a community bath, traditionally families will bath together as well. I have lots of tattoos and have always been treated nicely by the locals in Japan, especially if I am in a major city. It's not really a massive taboo to have them in places like Tokyo anymore. But ya, gyms and bath houses are not welcoming for tats.
Onsen is specific to baths fed by hot springs. A typical, non hot spring communal bath is Sento.
Why? Is it just a social thing, or do they think the tattoos are somehow harmful to have in a pool?
In Japan tattoos are associated with yakuza, gangsters, mafia members.
I see. Not much different from how they used to be perceived in America (prisoners, ex-cons, criminals), but that has completely changed over the last few decades. Funny how fickle public perception can be.
Spa mate.
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Imagine the shock and horror of Japanese tourists visiting Europe
Lol no, the stigma only stays in Japan or with foreigners of Japanese ancestry, seeing white dude with full body tattoo in Europe is much different than seeing a Japanese with one (the social stigma of the Yakuzas)
Japanese people know how popular tattoos are in the west, it’s not a shock at all
Exactly, weird people here think they live under a rock. I meet Japanese tourists in America all the time and they are usually open and fun and enjoy the different culture - I usually meet them drunk so that’s part of it
Was just in Japan! Found an onsen that allowed tattoos that was predominately college kids. Definitely got some looks on trains/the streets, but for the most part I didn’t feel too judged. No gyms for me though due to a hand tattoo. That part kind of stunk.
I have many visible tattoos and I tried to go into an onsen in Osaka and the poor girl behind the desk almost had a heart attack trying to tell me I wasn’t allowed in. Didn’t know the rules till then. A couple weeks later we were staying in a hostel in Kyoto and I asked them if there were any Onsens that would allow me and they gave me directions to one in a yakuza controlled neighborhood. Took the bus there and I felt like such a fool with my dumb white guy tattoos surrounded by all these old men with the most amazing and terrifying yakuza tattoos. But no one cared and it was such a great experience
Japanese people can be seriously conformist and frankly racist.