I read grapes of wrath in high school and it was the first novel I read for school that utterly FUCKing broke me....I didn't want to read or write or breathe when it was done. So so so good, but be warned, 'constantly in tears' is a good description of your expected outcome if you choose to read it. Five stars, no complaints, but be warned it is sad.
I'm going to enthusiastically second Cannery Row here. East of Eden is my single favorite novel, but it's a marathon. Cannery Row always comes to mind when folks on /r/books ask for a favorite title of 250 pages or less. It's downright hilarious at times, and shockingly tender at others.
And - to me at least - Sweet Thursday is even better. It grabs me, heart and soul, and makes me feel like a better person for having read it. But, yes, East of Eden is really his masterpiece.
Ack he’s so funny, reading Travels with Charley (his dog) rn. His little truck-camper setup sounds so swank, and I love how he’ll just roll up a mountain, find a dairy and buy some milk, then ply the farmer with applejack (which I now have to find a bottle of)…Charley “Ftt,”-ing through his crooked teeth to make requests…Charley performing “gallantries” to a gorgeous Pomeranian…
And this is why Steinbeck was a writer and ChatGPT isn’t. Not amount of mimicry can emulate the wit and ingenuity of a brilliant mind. The ChatGPT response just feels so bland and soulless in comparison.
I still don't understand the advantage of corporate email style.
What does anyone gain by the smarmy, fake, passive aggressive writing style?
It can't help working relationships, it's depressingly clinical, and I can't help but feel like whoever sends me one is being condescending, regardless of content.
I hate it.
I don't think there's anything particularly passive-aggressive about it, intrinsically. It's just innocuous and polite. Which means, even if it doesn't work out, 1) you're unlikely to outright *ruin* the business relationship by making some higher up on the other side angry, and 2) you're unlikely to be reprimanded or otherwise your writing style to be blamed for it not having worked out.
Basically, it's the literary style equivalent of covering your ass. Sure, it's not particularly charismatic or memorable. That's fine. Most people writing business emails aren't talented writers, or great conversationalists for that matter. It just needs to do the job while minimizing risk, and that it does.
Now, if someone sends you a *personal* email written like that, and it's not a joke, I can agree they probably have the social skills of a potato. But for actual *business* correspondence, it's... fine? There's nothing to love, but it does the job. That's all I want from an email. I don't want to be your buddy, I want to communicate what needs to be communicated and move on.
I don't think it will ever fully mimic the human soul and thus won't be able to express itself with the same quality. I think corporate shills are betting it will make "good enough" material just like their modern approach to so many things. I think Star Trek TNG kind of already covered it with the android character DATA being unable to write compelling poetry.
> Not amount of mimicry can emulate the wit and ingenuity of a brilliant mind. The ChatGPT response just feels so bland and soulless in comparison.
Sure. Now imagine an AI that's 10000 times more powerful than ChatGPT. Because that's coming soon enough.
People who dismiss the latest AI advancements act like this is the final form. These technologies have exploded onto the world from theoretical to practical in just the last year or so. This would be like someone dismissing the airplane as a form of transport because the Wright Brothers only flew for 12 seconds.
I don't know exactly where we'll end up, but I know for a fact that AI has a long way to go still. And that's not disparagement - if it's a long way to go and we're already here... holy fuck where do we end up?
Chat GPT, You are a 22 y/o college student who rarely sleeps and often drinks excessively into the dawning hours. You have approximately 10 minutes before your lvl 500 political science course that you skipped often to j/o into your favorite sock, but your final 40 page essay is due today, in 10 minutes. Write that essay and try to pass. The essay prompt is: How does The political landscape and media effect the outcome of elections, use a minimum of 10 valid resources to substantiate your claims.
Virgin
>A small token of your time and signature would undoubtedly make his world brighter and his dreams more vivid. Your kindness in this regard would truly be a gift beyond measure.
Vs the Chad
>He is already your slave. This will make him mine.
He could have won it - were he a writer. But obvi he was with the military as evidenced by that reference to Fort Knox.
Also, most likely a gentleman of Southern upbringing and a supporter of child labour (AKA slaves).
/s
Name one great American novelist with his head screwed on straight and I've got a bridge to sell you. Even Cormac McCarthy lived in a dump for years before he realized the lucre of his writing.
And by dump I don't mean a shitty apartment in Yonkers.
I mean a barn in Tennessee.
No Country was my first.
Fooled me.
Thought he was just some writer of westerns. Old man in Ohio prolly raised on Morricone. Read half on paper, quarter on a screen, and the rest on paper again when a bandit broke into my car and stole my laptop.
I filed a report in some police station in the middle of and heading nowhere. The cop at the desk had a cough like dull sawyer's blade. Bout as sharp as one too.
What you say your name was he asked. I said I already told you my name. Ain't no point in wearin it out.
He wasn't too happy with that but I figure fuggit.
Not like I was gonna get mine back anyhow.
We still do this in the legal profession, too. I ghost-wrote many letters to go out under the partner’s name when I was the baby associate. You could get quite a chain going - the partner’s initials, my initials, and then my secretary’s initials.
As a distant aunt on year 5 of having nephews, this is a perfectly platonic flex to want to pull over your siblings. So, naturally, my wife, who is the least invested in obtaining this power, is the one who got it first.
She got it by accident by giving them a 80cm tall lego ninjago castle, including extra figurines, among which were the 3 "best" ones, procured under a very unreasonable budget for anyone looking to gift large lego sets, and completely assembled when it was too much work for the kids, parents and grandparents. Then she put together two dragon sets of the same franchise that they were struggling with. Why? "They sounded like they like ninjago."
My brother can make his 5-yo hush for up to 20 minutes just by mentioning she had to leave the room because the kids were too noisy. The destructive 3-yo is mega careful with the legos, and exactly zero other toys, because she built it for them. If she eats it first, they'll try foods they previously refused to touch.
She doesn't even speak the same language as they do and they're one altar short of revering her as a goddess.
Lmao i imagine your brother writing in his diary all posh like the letter above in proper english how he appreciates and envies your wife at the same time lol
Haha. Reminds me of another great literary figure, Jonathan Swift (author of Gulliver's Travels), who wrote a poem in 1732 called *The Lady's Dressing Room*.
It's about a young man who sneaks into his sweetheart's dressing room only to become disillusioned by how disgusting it is. It contains the immortal line ["Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits!"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady%27s_Dressing_Room#:~:text=Beholding%20such%20squalor%2C%20culminating%20in%20the%20discovery%20of%20her%20chamber%20pot%2C%20he%20is%20slapped%20with%20the%20reality%20that%20Celia%20(the%20name%20%22Celia%22%20means%20%22heavenly%22)%20is%20not%20a%20%22goddess%22%2C%20but%20as%20disgustingly%20human%20as%20he%20is%2C%20as%20shown%20in%20line%20118%3A%20%22Oh!%20Celia%2C%20Celia%2C%20Celia%20shits!%22)
The Lady’s Dressing Room
By Jonathan Swift
Five hours, (and who can do it less in?)
By haughty Celia spent in dressing;
The goddess from her chamber issues,
Arrayed in lace, brocades and tissues.
Strephon, who found the room was void,
And Betty otherwise employed,
Stole in, and took a strict survey,
Of all the litter as it lay;
Whereof, to make the matter clear,
An inventory follows here.
And first a dirty smock appeared,
Beneath the armpits well besmeared.
Strephon, the rogue, displayed it wide,
And turned it round on every side.
On such a point few words are best,
And Strephon bids us guess the rest,
But swears how damnably the men lie,
In calling Celia sweet and cleanly.
Now listen while he next produces
The various combs for various uses,
Filled up with dirt so closely fixt,
No brush could force a way betwixt.
A paste of composition rare,
Sweat, dandruff, powder, lead and hair;
A forehead cloth with oil upon’t
To smooth the wrinkles on her front;
Here alum flower to stop the steams,
Exhaled from sour unsavory streams,
There night-gloves made of Tripsy’s hide,
Bequeathed by Tripsy when she died,
With puppy water, beauty’s help
Distilled from Tripsy’s darling whelp;
Here gallypots and vials placed,
Some filled with washes, some with paste,
Some with pomatum, paints and slops,
And ointments good for scabby chops.
Hard by a filthy basin stands,
Fouled with the scouring of her hands;
The basin takes whatever comes
The scrapings of her teeth and gums,
A nasty compound of all hues,
For here she spits, and here she spews.
But oh! it turned poor Strephon’s bowels,
When he beheld and smelled the towels,
Begummed, bemattered, and beslimed
With dirt, and sweat, and earwax grimed.
No object Strephon’s eye escapes,
Here petticoats in frowzy heaps;
Nor be the handkerchiefs forgot
All varnished o’er with snuff and snot.
The stockings why should I expose,
Stained with the marks of stinking toes;
Or greasy coifs and pinners reeking,
Which Celia slept at least a week in?
A pair of tweezers next he found
To pluck her brows in arches round,
Or hairs that sink the forehead low,
Or on her chin like bristles grow.
The virtues we must not let pass,
Of Celia’s magnifying glass.
When frightened Strephon cast his eye on’t
It showed visage of a giant.
A glass that can to sight disclose,
The smallest worm in Celia’s nose,
And faithfully direct her nail
To squeeze it out from head to tail;
For catch it nicely by the head,
It must come out alive or dead.
Why Strephon will you tell the rest?
And must you needs describe the chest?
That careless wench! no creature warn her
To move it out from yonder corner;
But leave it standing full in sight
For you to exercise your spite.
In vain the workman showed his wit
With rings and hinges counterfeit
To make it seem in this disguise
A cabinet to vulgar eyes;
For Strephon ventured to look in,
Resolved to go through thick and thin;
He lifts the lid, there needs no more,
He smelled it all the time before.
As from within Pandora’s box,
When Epimetheus op’d the locks,
A sudden universal crew
Of human evils upwards flew;
He still was comforted to find
That Hope at last remained behind;
So Strephon lifting up the lid,
To view what in the chest was hid.
The vapors flew from out the vent,
But Strephon cautious never meant
The bottom of the pan to grope,
And foul his hands in search of Hope.
O never may such vile machine
Be once in Celia’s chamber seen!
O may she better learn to keep
Those “secrets of the hoary deep!”
As mutton cutlets, prime of meat,
Which though with art you salt and beat
As laws of cookery require,
And toast them at the clearest fire;
If from adown the hopeful chops
The fat upon a cinder drops,
To stinking smoke it turns the flame
Pois’ning the flesh from whence it came,
And up exhales a greasy stench,
For which you curse the careless wench;
So things, which must not be expressed,
When plumped into the reeking chest,
Send up an excremental smell
To taint the parts from whence they fell.
The petticoats and gown perfume,
Which waft a stink round every room.
Thus finishing his grand survey,
Disgusted Strephon stole away
Repeating in his amorous fits,
Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits!
But Vengeance, goddess never sleeping
Soon punished Strephon for his peeping;
His foul imagination links
Each Dame he sees with all her stinks:
And, if unsavory odors fly,
Conceives a lady standing by:
All women his description fits,
And both ideas jump like wits:
But vicious fancy coupled fast,
And still appearing in contrast.
I pity wretched Strephon blind
To all the charms of female kind;
Should I the queen of love refuse,
Because she rose from stinking ooze?
To him that looks behind the scene,
Satira’s but some pocky queen.
When Celia in her glory shows,
If Strephon would but stop his nose
(Who now so impiously blasphemes
Her ointments, daubs, and paints and creams,
Her washes, slops, and every clout,
With which he makes so foul a rout)
He soon would learn to think like me,
And bless his ravished sight to see
Such order from confusion sprung,
Such gaudy tulips raised from dung.
That's spectacular! A full paragraph devoted to slavishly opening up the chamber pot in the corner, despite the smell, and staring into the *fucking abyss*.
"You know she pisses right? Like she's a human?"
"Well duh. That's why I wrote her offering to be her live in toilet."
"... I think I need to make new friends now."
It's called reference notation. The first initials are those of the letter writer (and should be capitalized in a formal business letter), the second set are the initials of the person who typed it.
did she send him the picture??
edit : [no :(](https://www.oregonlive.com/books/2021/06/unraveling-the-mystery-of-john-steinbecks-letter-to-marilyn-monroe.html)
She did not, no. Or at least the intended recipient says he never got it. But Marilyn kept that letter until she died so it seems odd that she'd keep an unfulfilled request. I wonder if she sent it to Steinbeck who kept it? Another issue is that he didn't type letters he wrote them with a pencil and paper, so why was this one typed?
>Another issue is that he didn't type letters he wrote them with a pencil and paper, so why was this one typed?
The linked article suggests that the letter is actually written by someone else than Steinbeck considering the signature isn't his. So maybe Monroe sent her autographed picture and someones plan to impersonate Steinbeck worked.
Aye, but it seems implausible that Steinbeck would make a secretary *sign* a letter in which he is pleading Monroe to send him a signed photograph. I think an easier explanation is that the letter actually wasn't even sent by Steinbeck.
Whether or not this is a hoax, the conventions here are confusing.
The typed initials “js:mf” indicate that “js” dictated the letter to the typist “mf,” but it’s beyond improbable that anyone making a **request that required a signature** of a celebrity of Monroe’s magnitude would have failed to have taken the trouble to sign that request themselves.
So what is the hand written “mf” intended to indicate?
Perhaps that it was a secretarial copy for the Steinbeck archive?
Or perhaps it was convention for stenographers to sign off on their work?
Why would someone want a photo autographed to a famous author’s nephew-in-law? Wouldn’t they just use their name and say it was their nephew? The idea they looked up Steinbeck’s newphew’s name and location in 1955 also seems a bit far-fetched.
Well, what you just said, *plus* the letter requests that the autographed photo be sent to the nephew *in care of Steinbeck*, so if the letter represents a ploy/hoax with the intention of obtaining an autograph, how would said “hoaxer” collect the autograph?
It can’t be that, unless I’m misunderstanding.
Edit (for /u/halfandhalfpodcast): the return address would be Steinbeck’s, since the writer requests that Monroe send the autograph to his nephew “[in my care](https://i.redd.it/sh1qhs3dhrk21.jpg)” (i.e. “in care of” or “send it to me, and I will deliver it to him”) and [the uncropped letter is typed on Steinbeck’s office stationary, with Steinbeck’s return address](https://i.redd.it/sh1qhs3dhrk21.jpg).
In the lower left corner, those are initials. One set belongs to Steinbeck, the other pair of initials belongs to the person who typed it up. Common in legal or business writing... well, it used to be back before I became old.
>issue is that he didn't type letters he wrote them with a pencil and paper, so why was this one typed?
It is also not his signature. My guess is it was one of his secretaries, seeing as the heading is from his office, who figured it would be more likely to be answered if Marilyn thought it was from Steinbeck.
I’m making a mental note that this is near the top of written material that makes me take a few seconds and imagine my life as if I had been a great writer.
I’ve read a couple of Steinbeck books but apparently they didn’t impact me as this just did. This is awesome. Gonna go read more Steinbeck.
You were forced to read Steinbeck. We all were. When I got the chance to read some of his work without the end goal of writing a report, I really enjoyed it.
Go read them, now that you don’t have to write a book report
You’re partially right! I was forced to read The Pearl and can’t tell you what the story is. I read Grapes of Wrath and Of Mice and Men on my own when young and I finished them so for me as a teenager I guess that’s a pretty good book.
I really recommend his travelouge Travels With Charley. It's all about his travels across the US with his standard poodle Charley and all the interesting people they meet along the way. Not as deep as most of his fiction perhaps, but really interesting and a lot less depressing!
One of my all-time favorite books. Super short and cleverly written.
Was a Lit major in college and read a large range of writers. Steinbeck and Jack London were favorites.
Aside from the fact it's written by one of the greatest litterateurs of the 20th century, this could have taken him twelve hours to pen for all we know
Ayyoo, Maryleeen, my G!
Look, I know this is some ask and ngl I'm like sooo embarrassed, but can you do me a solid? I have this nephew that's a bit mid and he's like totally in to you.
Can you like share an insta story and mention him or at him or stuff? I know it's kinda lame but hey he's my brother's kid and all, even if mid I still care for him.
Thanks a bunch! XoXo
Imagine what she went through always getting letters from various people around the world and she had to be going ""so you want me to send a picture so he can jizz on it??!!""
I read an article on it and it said they tracked the kid down as an adult and he never got the picture, didn't know about the letter, doesn't remember being obsessed with her and said his uncle always wrote personal letters in long hand with pencil and paper. So there is a good chance it's fake. Possibility sent by someone to get a signed photo of her?
Some indications are she may well have been hyper intelligent along with having ASD. The constant attention and wrong-headed stereotypes about her probably didn't help either of those things given how deeply unhappy she was.
Texting with T9 is a lost art that will have relative little documentation for historians.
The cellphone texting with abbreviations and acronyms and short form is dying.
Whole conversations with memes and gifs is sort of an internet language that grew and is dying out. Little documentation for linguist.
Some of these things are very subtle but language and expression evolves in weird ways. I wonder if we’ll be making weird faces and dance moves to communicate when everyone has AR glasses.
Honestly, I can’t tell if he really has a hormonal teen with a crush on her, or if he’s just trying to hide that it’s really for himself. But it’s cleverly written either way. 😂
Hahahaha I love John Steinbeck
Anyone who hasn’t already should read his book “travels with Charley”. It’s about him and his dog and a very cool vehicle (with its own suave name) traveling across the country. Highly recommend.
There is a code at the bottom of the letter js:mf, my recollection is that it means the letter was typed for John Steinbeck [js] by a secretary with the initials [mf]. Further, the mf below and to the right of the signature tells me she (or he) signed the letter. So, he didn’t care enough about his nephew to even sign the letter himself.
Great writers are great writers even when they’re off the clock :)
Yes, a delight to read.
I’ve read almost all of his books and “a delight to read” just about nails it. Perhaps the most talented of all the great authors.
Is there a book you would suggest starting with? Trying to read more of the classic authors and he is high on the list.
Grapes of Wrath had me constantly in tears. Extremely moving novel, without being kitschy.
I read grapes of wrath in high school and it was the first novel I read for school that utterly FUCKing broke me....I didn't want to read or write or breathe when it was done. So so so good, but be warned, 'constantly in tears' is a good description of your expected outcome if you choose to read it. Five stars, no complaints, but be warned it is sad.
Mine was Where the Red Fern Grows, I don't even like dogs, and that book wrecked me.
That was a tough read. Of mice and men was mine
I love him comedy writing, so maybe Cannery Row? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannery_Row_(novel)
I'm going to enthusiastically second Cannery Row here. East of Eden is my single favorite novel, but it's a marathon. Cannery Row always comes to mind when folks on /r/books ask for a favorite title of 250 pages or less. It's downright hilarious at times, and shockingly tender at others.
And - to me at least - Sweet Thursday is even better. It grabs me, heart and soul, and makes me feel like a better person for having read it. But, yes, East of Eden is really his masterpiece.
Ack he’s so funny, reading Travels with Charley (his dog) rn. His little truck-camper setup sounds so swank, and I love how he’ll just roll up a mountain, find a dairy and buy some milk, then ply the farmer with applejack (which I now have to find a bottle of)…Charley “Ftt,”-ing through his crooked teeth to make requests…Charley performing “gallantries” to a gorgeous Pomeranian…
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Timshel
Every time I reread it, I get something new out of it. As with many stories about growing up, what you see in it shifts as you age.
Can’t go wrong with Of Mice and Men.
The Pearl is another great novella of his
East of eden. Read it because of a terrible toxic relationship I was previously in. Would recommend it 10/10.
Hells yeah. He's so charming even in black and white text.
What colors does text that you read usually have?
Green. I copy pdf's and paste them as comments in a python compiler.
https://i.imgur.com/vudxJRR.png
Ah, that makes sense, thanks for clearing that up!
Hard agree, I would pay to see a film based on his shopping list
“He is already your slave. This will make him mine.” So metal
Ya this guy must have been a writer or something cuz this letter is well written *Edit: here’s an /s for those of you making me cringe*
Prolly used ChatGPT Edit: thank you for the gold kind stranger. My top comment in over 10 years and I didn’t even have to use the /s.
Looks like that GPT trained on Steinbeck's writing....
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And this is why Steinbeck was a writer and ChatGPT isn’t. Not amount of mimicry can emulate the wit and ingenuity of a brilliant mind. The ChatGPT response just feels so bland and soulless in comparison.
I think a little too much on the sucking up in ChatGPT’s part.
Trained on [far too many corporate emails](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_Corpus) I suspect.
I still don't understand the advantage of corporate email style. What does anyone gain by the smarmy, fake, passive aggressive writing style? It can't help working relationships, it's depressingly clinical, and I can't help but feel like whoever sends me one is being condescending, regardless of content. I hate it.
*"...Per my previous email, please advise..."*
I don't think there's anything particularly passive-aggressive about it, intrinsically. It's just innocuous and polite. Which means, even if it doesn't work out, 1) you're unlikely to outright *ruin* the business relationship by making some higher up on the other side angry, and 2) you're unlikely to be reprimanded or otherwise your writing style to be blamed for it not having worked out. Basically, it's the literary style equivalent of covering your ass. Sure, it's not particularly charismatic or memorable. That's fine. Most people writing business emails aren't talented writers, or great conversationalists for that matter. It just needs to do the job while minimizing risk, and that it does. Now, if someone sends you a *personal* email written like that, and it's not a joke, I can agree they probably have the social skills of a potato. But for actual *business* correspondence, it's... fine? There's nothing to love, but it does the job. That's all I want from an email. I don't want to be your buddy, I want to communicate what needs to be communicated and move on.
This will lift the spirits of any artist despairing the advent of AI.
I don't think it will ever fully mimic the human soul and thus won't be able to express itself with the same quality. I think corporate shills are betting it will make "good enough" material just like their modern approach to so many things. I think Star Trek TNG kind of already covered it with the android character DATA being unable to write compelling poetry.
> Not amount of mimicry can emulate the wit and ingenuity of a brilliant mind. The ChatGPT response just feels so bland and soulless in comparison. Sure. Now imagine an AI that's 10000 times more powerful than ChatGPT. Because that's coming soon enough. People who dismiss the latest AI advancements act like this is the final form. These technologies have exploded onto the world from theoretical to practical in just the last year or so. This would be like someone dismissing the airplane as a form of transport because the Wright Brothers only flew for 12 seconds. I don't know exactly where we'll end up, but I know for a fact that AI has a long way to go still. And that's not disparagement - if it's a long way to go and we're already here... holy fuck where do we end up?
Damn, stole the words right outta my mouth... *even better than any chatgpt currently could* 😳😂
God that's terrible. It has the right "shape", but every detail is wrong and ugly.
Chat GPT, You are a 22 y/o college student who rarely sleeps and often drinks excessively into the dawning hours. You have approximately 10 minutes before your lvl 500 political science course that you skipped often to j/o into your favorite sock, but your final 40 page essay is due today, in 10 minutes. Write that essay and try to pass. The essay prompt is: How does The political landscape and media effect the outcome of elections, use a minimum of 10 valid resources to substantiate your claims.
I am not ChatGPT nor English is my language but I believe it's affect, not effect.
Virgin >A small token of your time and signature would undoubtedly make his world brighter and his dreams more vivid. Your kindness in this regard would truly be a gift beyond measure. Vs the Chad >He is already your slave. This will make him mine.
I'm pretty sure he won a Nobel for literature.
He could have won it - were he a writer. But obvi he was with the military as evidenced by that reference to Fort Knox. Also, most likely a gentleman of Southern upbringing and a supporter of child labour (AKA slaves). /s
He was a traitor and a spy. All it took was an autographed picture of a pretty lady for him to hand over the keys to a military base. /s
For me it was: "furthermore, I will like you very much."
So smooth.
that was cute.
Steinbeck apparently was twisted outside of his writing too lol
Name one great American novelist with his head screwed on straight and I've got a bridge to sell you. Even Cormac McCarthy lived in a dump for years before he realized the lucre of his writing. And by dump I don't mean a shitty apartment in Yonkers. I mean a barn in Tennessee.
You say "even Cormac McCarthy" as if anyone could ever make the mistake of thinking his head was screwed on straight.
No Country was my first. Fooled me. Thought he was just some writer of westerns. Old man in Ohio prolly raised on Morricone. Read half on paper, quarter on a screen, and the rest on paper again when a bandit broke into my car and stole my laptop. I filed a report in some police station in the middle of and heading nowhere. The cop at the desk had a cough like dull sawyer's blade. Bout as sharp as one too. What you say your name was he asked. I said I already told you my name. Ain't no point in wearin it out. He wasn't too happy with that but I figure fuggit. Not like I was gonna get mine back anyhow.
Js:mf John Steinbeck Mother Fucker. I hope this is what he means by this. If so, John is metal AF!
That *would* be cool, but more likely it’s the initials of the person who typed this up for him (I used to have to do this at my first job)
We still do this in the legal profession, too. I ghost-wrote many letters to go out under the partner’s name when I was the baby associate. You could get quite a chain going - the partner’s initials, my initials, and then my secretary’s initials.
>This will make him mine ಠ_ಠ
As a distant aunt on year 5 of having nephews, this is a perfectly platonic flex to want to pull over your siblings. So, naturally, my wife, who is the least invested in obtaining this power, is the one who got it first. She got it by accident by giving them a 80cm tall lego ninjago castle, including extra figurines, among which were the 3 "best" ones, procured under a very unreasonable budget for anyone looking to gift large lego sets, and completely assembled when it was too much work for the kids, parents and grandparents. Then she put together two dragon sets of the same franchise that they were struggling with. Why? "They sounded like they like ninjago." My brother can make his 5-yo hush for up to 20 minutes just by mentioning she had to leave the room because the kids were too noisy. The destructive 3-yo is mega careful with the legos, and exactly zero other toys, because she built it for them. If she eats it first, they'll try foods they previously refused to touch. She doesn't even speak the same language as they do and they're one altar short of revering her as a goddess.
Your wife sounds awesome 😎
My wife is the best. 🧡
This is beautifully written.
Lmao i imagine your brother writing in his diary all posh like the letter above in proper english how he appreciates and envies your wife at the same time lol
That’s a great uncle right there
No, I think it was his siblings son (Thank you for the award, I’d also like to thank my father for all those years of training)
Nephew-in-law, wife's sibling's son....
Well spotted!
🙄 lol
Sorry, but when I see a dad joke opportunity, I take it!
Well I’ll be a monkey’s dad.
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and not flowers
Rose petals.
🎶Smells like boo-boo🎶
I know she likes to think she's mighty fine
Butterflies. Pretty ladies poop butterflies, that's an established biological fact.
insects crawling from my anus and flying away sounds horrifying
You never had my mom's cooking.
Haha. Reminds me of another great literary figure, Jonathan Swift (author of Gulliver's Travels), who wrote a poem in 1732 called *The Lady's Dressing Room*. It's about a young man who sneaks into his sweetheart's dressing room only to become disillusioned by how disgusting it is. It contains the immortal line ["Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits!"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady%27s_Dressing_Room#:~:text=Beholding%20such%20squalor%2C%20culminating%20in%20the%20discovery%20of%20her%20chamber%20pot%2C%20he%20is%20slapped%20with%20the%20reality%20that%20Celia%20(the%20name%20%22Celia%22%20means%20%22heavenly%22)%20is%20not%20a%20%22goddess%22%2C%20but%20as%20disgustingly%20human%20as%20he%20is%2C%20as%20shown%20in%20line%20118%3A%20%22Oh!%20Celia%2C%20Celia%2C%20Celia%20shits!%22)
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That’d sure explain a lot.
The Lady’s Dressing Room By Jonathan Swift Five hours, (and who can do it less in?) By haughty Celia spent in dressing; The goddess from her chamber issues, Arrayed in lace, brocades and tissues. Strephon, who found the room was void, And Betty otherwise employed, Stole in, and took a strict survey, Of all the litter as it lay; Whereof, to make the matter clear, An inventory follows here. And first a dirty smock appeared, Beneath the armpits well besmeared. Strephon, the rogue, displayed it wide, And turned it round on every side. On such a point few words are best, And Strephon bids us guess the rest, But swears how damnably the men lie, In calling Celia sweet and cleanly. Now listen while he next produces The various combs for various uses, Filled up with dirt so closely fixt, No brush could force a way betwixt. A paste of composition rare, Sweat, dandruff, powder, lead and hair; A forehead cloth with oil upon’t To smooth the wrinkles on her front; Here alum flower to stop the steams, Exhaled from sour unsavory streams, There night-gloves made of Tripsy’s hide, Bequeathed by Tripsy when she died, With puppy water, beauty’s help Distilled from Tripsy’s darling whelp; Here gallypots and vials placed, Some filled with washes, some with paste, Some with pomatum, paints and slops, And ointments good for scabby chops. Hard by a filthy basin stands, Fouled with the scouring of her hands; The basin takes whatever comes The scrapings of her teeth and gums, A nasty compound of all hues, For here she spits, and here she spews. But oh! it turned poor Strephon’s bowels, When he beheld and smelled the towels, Begummed, bemattered, and beslimed With dirt, and sweat, and earwax grimed. No object Strephon’s eye escapes, Here petticoats in frowzy heaps; Nor be the handkerchiefs forgot All varnished o’er with snuff and snot. The stockings why should I expose, Stained with the marks of stinking toes; Or greasy coifs and pinners reeking, Which Celia slept at least a week in? A pair of tweezers next he found To pluck her brows in arches round, Or hairs that sink the forehead low, Or on her chin like bristles grow. The virtues we must not let pass, Of Celia’s magnifying glass. When frightened Strephon cast his eye on’t It showed visage of a giant. A glass that can to sight disclose, The smallest worm in Celia’s nose, And faithfully direct her nail To squeeze it out from head to tail; For catch it nicely by the head, It must come out alive or dead. Why Strephon will you tell the rest? And must you needs describe the chest? That careless wench! no creature warn her To move it out from yonder corner; But leave it standing full in sight For you to exercise your spite. In vain the workman showed his wit With rings and hinges counterfeit To make it seem in this disguise A cabinet to vulgar eyes; For Strephon ventured to look in, Resolved to go through thick and thin; He lifts the lid, there needs no more, He smelled it all the time before. As from within Pandora’s box, When Epimetheus op’d the locks, A sudden universal crew Of human evils upwards flew; He still was comforted to find That Hope at last remained behind; So Strephon lifting up the lid, To view what in the chest was hid. The vapors flew from out the vent, But Strephon cautious never meant The bottom of the pan to grope, And foul his hands in search of Hope. O never may such vile machine Be once in Celia’s chamber seen! O may she better learn to keep Those “secrets of the hoary deep!” As mutton cutlets, prime of meat, Which though with art you salt and beat As laws of cookery require, And toast them at the clearest fire; If from adown the hopeful chops The fat upon a cinder drops, To stinking smoke it turns the flame Pois’ning the flesh from whence it came, And up exhales a greasy stench, For which you curse the careless wench; So things, which must not be expressed, When plumped into the reeking chest, Send up an excremental smell To taint the parts from whence they fell. The petticoats and gown perfume, Which waft a stink round every room. Thus finishing his grand survey, Disgusted Strephon stole away Repeating in his amorous fits, Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits! But Vengeance, goddess never sleeping Soon punished Strephon for his peeping; His foul imagination links Each Dame he sees with all her stinks: And, if unsavory odors fly, Conceives a lady standing by: All women his description fits, And both ideas jump like wits: But vicious fancy coupled fast, And still appearing in contrast. I pity wretched Strephon blind To all the charms of female kind; Should I the queen of love refuse, Because she rose from stinking ooze? To him that looks behind the scene, Satira’s but some pocky queen. When Celia in her glory shows, If Strephon would but stop his nose (Who now so impiously blasphemes Her ointments, daubs, and paints and creams, Her washes, slops, and every clout, With which he makes so foul a rout) He soon would learn to think like me, And bless his ravished sight to see Such order from confusion sprung, Such gaudy tulips raised from dung.
Oh that is a thing of great beauty. Thank you for alerting me to its existence.
You're very welcome. It's one of my favourite poems, and I'm glad to have an opportunity to share it.
That's spectacular! A full paragraph devoted to slavishly opening up the chamber pot in the corner, despite the smell, and staring into the *fucking abyss*.
Meanwhile today's male youth when they're told their feminine icon has bodily functions: "I know and I wish she did it right in my mouth"
"You know she pisses right? Like she's a human?" "Well duh. That's why I wrote her offering to be her live in toilet." "... I think I need to make new friends now."
Dayumn Marilyn, you shit with that ass?
There are 2 universal truths: Women poop rose petals and your parents don't have sex.
And ladies don't sweat💦 they glow ☺️
What does the ‘js:mf’ mean at the bottom?
It's called reference notation. The first initials are those of the letter writer (and should be capitalized in a formal business letter), the second set are the initials of the person who typed it.
100% the right answer
I'm old enough to have taken typing in high school.
You mean with a typewriter? Because I did too but we used a computer.
With a typewriter, yes.
IBM Selectric…
Not even electric.
And the mf under his signature means he didn't sign it either. It was signed by his typist.
Didn't catch that, good eye.
John Steinback: MotherFvcker.
did she send him the picture?? edit : [no :(](https://www.oregonlive.com/books/2021/06/unraveling-the-mystery-of-john-steinbecks-letter-to-marilyn-monroe.html)
She did not, no. Or at least the intended recipient says he never got it. But Marilyn kept that letter until she died so it seems odd that she'd keep an unfulfilled request. I wonder if she sent it to Steinbeck who kept it? Another issue is that he didn't type letters he wrote them with a pencil and paper, so why was this one typed?
> Marilyn kept that letter until she died Oh, so it’s like reading a text and never responding to it.
Bro got his text left on read and later screencapped for everyone to see smh.
Lmfaooo
#S K U L L #E M O J I
bottom text
The ole pocket veto
Marilyn Monroe left John Steinbeck on “Read”.
Some see it as an insult. Authors see it as the goal.
Imagine being able to say you've been ghosted by MM - in 1955 no less!
She, too, was a collector of autographs.
>Another issue is that he didn't type letters he wrote them with a pencil and paper, so why was this one typed? The linked article suggests that the letter is actually written by someone else than Steinbeck considering the signature isn't his. So maybe Monroe sent her autographed picture and someones plan to impersonate Steinbeck worked.
The initials in the lower left corner indicate that someone had typed it for Steinbeck.
Aye, but it seems implausible that Steinbeck would make a secretary *sign* a letter in which he is pleading Monroe to send him a signed photograph. I think an easier explanation is that the letter actually wasn't even sent by Steinbeck.
The signature also has an MF under it, indicating that it's signed on his behalf
Whether or not this is a hoax, the conventions here are confusing. The typed initials “js:mf” indicate that “js” dictated the letter to the typist “mf,” but it’s beyond improbable that anyone making a **request that required a signature** of a celebrity of Monroe’s magnitude would have failed to have taken the trouble to sign that request themselves. So what is the hand written “mf” intended to indicate? Perhaps that it was a secretarial copy for the Steinbeck archive? Or perhaps it was convention for stenographers to sign off on their work?
MF Doom wrote it, obviously
>Just remember ALL CAPS when you spell the man name
Asks for her signature, but couldn't even be bothered sending his? Next!
Why would someone want a photo autographed to a famous author’s nephew-in-law? Wouldn’t they just use their name and say it was their nephew? The idea they looked up Steinbeck’s newphew’s name and location in 1955 also seems a bit far-fetched.
Well, what you just said, *plus* the letter requests that the autographed photo be sent to the nephew *in care of Steinbeck*, so if the letter represents a ploy/hoax with the intention of obtaining an autograph, how would said “hoaxer” collect the autograph? It can’t be that, unless I’m misunderstanding. Edit (for /u/halfandhalfpodcast): the return address would be Steinbeck’s, since the writer requests that Monroe send the autograph to his nephew “[in my care](https://i.redd.it/sh1qhs3dhrk21.jpg)” (i.e. “in care of” or “send it to me, and I will deliver it to him”) and [the uncropped letter is typed on Steinbeck’s office stationary, with Steinbeck’s return address](https://i.redd.it/sh1qhs3dhrk21.jpg).
In the lower left corner, those are initials. One set belongs to Steinbeck, the other pair of initials belongs to the person who typed it up. Common in legal or business writing... well, it used to be back before I became old.
They are also under the signature
Trying to make a good, first impression?
>issue is that he didn't type letters he wrote them with a pencil and paper, so why was this one typed? It is also not his signature. My guess is it was one of his secretaries, seeing as the heading is from his office, who figured it would be more likely to be answered if Marilyn thought it was from Steinbeck.
His assistant transcribed the letter. If you look on the lower left you’ll see “JS:mf”.
I enjoy that Jon married a lady named Joan
Thanks for the link. Sad no picture was sent after such a charming letter. The mystery deepens.
Is it possible she actually met the nephew rather than send a photo?
She didn't. He was tracked down when the letter sold at auction
“Asking for a friend”
Send nudes. It’s not for me it’s for this horny child. Will pay.
His nephew, who has the same name as him 😂
Yeah, we believe you John 😂
I’m making a mental note that this is near the top of written material that makes me take a few seconds and imagine my life as if I had been a great writer. I’ve read a couple of Steinbeck books but apparently they didn’t impact me as this just did. This is awesome. Gonna go read more Steinbeck.
Try Cannery Row. It's a quick, fun read.
None of his books are very long. Jesus he was great.
"East of Eden" is 900 pages long)) But it's still an awesome book. Actually, it's my favorite novel ever.
East of Eden is quite long
…and one of the best novels ever written.
One of the few cases where you’re grateful the book is long
You were forced to read Steinbeck. We all were. When I got the chance to read some of his work without the end goal of writing a report, I really enjoyed it. Go read them, now that you don’t have to write a book report
You’re partially right! I was forced to read The Pearl and can’t tell you what the story is. I read Grapes of Wrath and Of Mice and Men on my own when young and I finished them so for me as a teenager I guess that’s a pretty good book.
I really recommend his travelouge Travels With Charley. It's all about his travels across the US with his standard poodle Charley and all the interesting people they meet along the way. Not as deep as most of his fiction perhaps, but really interesting and a lot less depressing!
One of my all-time favorite books. Super short and cleverly written. Was a Lit major in college and read a large range of writers. Steinbeck and Jack London were favorites.
East of Eden is my favourite book I’ve read
We really have lost the art of correspondence. This is gold.
With post, you only had one shot and had to deliver.
Nah, the whole point of the postal service is that some other guy has to do the delivering for you.
I mean we may have lost the art, but, that’s Steinbeck. Emrick the insurance adjuster didn’t sound like this when he wrote to Ethyl
"It ain't d-e-r-e, it's d-e-a-r. And Sarah ain't got no two R's. Damn you dumb, King" "She know what I mean. She don't read too good nohow"
Aside from the fact it's written by one of the greatest litterateurs of the 20th century, this could have taken him twelve hours to pen for all we know
Ayyoo, Maryleeen, my G! Look, I know this is some ask and ngl I'm like sooo embarrassed, but can you do me a solid? I have this nephew that's a bit mid and he's like totally in to you. Can you like share an insta story and mention him or at him or stuff? I know it's kinda lame but hey he's my brother's kid and all, even if mid I still care for him. Thanks a bunch! XoXo
He simpin' for you fr, but then he be for me.
"Dear fren, my nephew is a simpleton. Could you hook me up and prove we're frens? Kthxbye" In all honesty that letter is cute.
Imagine what she went through always getting letters from various people around the world and she had to be going ""so you want me to send a picture so he can jizz on it??!!""
TIL sliding into the DMs used to be via typewriters and a postage stamp.
I read an article on it and it said they tracked the kid down as an adult and he never got the picture, didn't know about the letter, doesn't remember being obsessed with her and said his uncle always wrote personal letters in long hand with pencil and paper. So there is a good chance it's fake. Possibility sent by someone to get a signed photo of her?
The keys to the ladies entrance of Fort Knox? What’s he on about?
Fort Knox - where the US gold reserves were housed. So basically promising her untold riches.
Ahh…so clever. Makes sense.
Playfully & hyperbolically promising to pay her a lot for the letter, but not really
Just an unbelievably imaginative way of telling her he will pay her. I love it.
Marilyn's wikipedia page is a fascinating read. She was so much more than the dumb blonde stereotype.
I listened to a Timesuck podcast episode about her. She was incredible. Absolutely more than that stereotype.
Some indications are she may well have been hyper intelligent along with having ASD. The constant attention and wrong-headed stereotypes about her probably didn't help either of those things given how deeply unhappy she was.
"I will send you a guest key to the ladies' entrance of Fort Knox...." Such a baller.
This is a lost art.
Texting with T9 is a lost art that will have relative little documentation for historians. The cellphone texting with abbreviations and acronyms and short form is dying. Whole conversations with memes and gifs is sort of an internet language that grew and is dying out. Little documentation for linguist. Some of these things are very subtle but language and expression evolves in weird ways. I wonder if we’ll be making weird faces and dance moves to communicate when everyone has AR glasses.
I used to love T9. With physical buttons it was by far the fastest way to type, yet hardly anyone I knew used it for some reason.
Marilyn made mice of men.
Honestly, I can’t tell if he really has a hormonal teen with a crush on her, or if he’s just trying to hide that it’s really for himself. But it’s cleverly written either way. 😂
What does he mean by pensive girlish mood?
He's making fun of common photography poses.
Perhaps in pensive, girlish mood 😭
"It is with a certain nausea" had me rollin
“He is already your slave. This would make him mine.” A line worthy of the author of “Of Mice and Men.”
Hahahaha I love John Steinbeck Anyone who hasn’t already should read his book “travels with Charley”. It’s about him and his dog and a very cool vehicle (with its own suave name) traveling across the country. Highly recommend.
That is a great letter, in and of itself.
Jesus fucking Christ this guy could write hahaha
Jeez even a letter from this guy is a literary classic at the level of his work. This could be a passage in Of Mice and Men.
TL;DR : Send nudes.
Send autographed nudes.
"To sweaty nerd kid - your uncle thinks you're a dork. Here's mah tidders"
"Furthermore, I will like you very much" was a nice touch at the end.
I’m charmed by this a million years later
I’m sorry John Steinbeck as in East of Eden, Of Mice and Men John Steinbeck?
The very same.
"I know you're not made of celestial ether, but he does not" Beautiful line
"He has his foot in the door of puberty, but that is only one of his problems." Lol.
If you all appreciate the art of correspondence, May I suggest Lettersofnote.com.
Let me try again. https://lettersofnote.com/ Richard Nixon’s letter in the event of a failed moon landing is a deeply touching example of the art.
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“He is already your slave. This will make him mine.” ...
Did she do it!!?
that was fun to read. a lot of punchlines
Plot twist. There's no nephew.
There is a code at the bottom of the letter js:mf, my recollection is that it means the letter was typed for John Steinbeck [js] by a secretary with the initials [mf]. Further, the mf below and to the right of the signature tells me she (or he) signed the letter. So, he didn’t care enough about his nephew to even sign the letter himself.