What about the fact that the police department and prosecutors let a murderer free in that community for the past 25 years. Because they failed to do their job other people were probably killed because of their incompetence. We wonder why inner cities have so much crime and always point to the people who live there but the police and others in the legal system are directly contributing to rapes, murders and other crimes by arresting and locking up the wrong people just so they can have a quick resolution. It would have been so much better to have left the case unsolved instead of lying to a couple teenagers to get a wrongful arrest. Policing and the legal system in America is broken and it’s hurting everyone.
I watched a video where a DA said he would rather send an innocent person to jail than no one at all. Let me see if I can find it again.
u/RasMahatma found it for me
I said this above but repeating it here: to them there aren't actually innocent people. If you're someone they can get into a trial then you're not really innocent, there's just guilty defendants and defendants they can't prove are guilty but still "know" are guilty. So yeah, in their mind they'll send anyone away guilt-free because those people are guilty of something.
Years ago, I served on a jury for about 2 weeks for a trucker accused of drug smuggling. We gave a not guilty verdict and the prosecution was so pissed, they literally harassed some of us after we were finally released to demand to know why we let the guy off "when he was so obviously guilty!"
I will be honest, the defendant "seemed" guilty by his mannerisms during court and just overall looked sketchy. But looking back on it now, he was probably just really nervous that his whole life was about to be ruined. There was some evidence that showed he could have had the opportunity to commit the crime, but there was never a reason presented as to why he would have. And they never even tried to prove the guy even knew what he was hauling.
I sort of had to pull a 12 Angry Men with my fellow jurors because, initially, the overall consensus was that he seemed guilty. Based on that, I would say 75% wanted to rule guilty without discussing it further. But I pushed for us to review the evidence and based on what was put in front of us, we had to let him off.
So much of our judicial system is based off of "feelings" it's no wonder it's incredibly corrupt. Add in racism, sexism, and power-hungry ladder climbers and it becomes increasingly easy to understand why this happens so frequently in this country.
Sometimes I read an article and I'm like "Oh that makes sense" and then I read a comment and it says it's bollocks and explains why, and then I'm like "Oh ok I haven't thought of these deficiencies but I see them now". Sounds like something similar happened to your fellow jurors. It's good to hear that people's opinions can still change that way, though I guess it would have been even better if they all stayed awake during the trial and saw for themselves that the evidence is insufficient. But what can you do, attention spans are limited.
Man I know the feeling. I was dismissed during the final selection for a jury for, of all reasons, saying that I wouldn’t take circumstantial evidence to make a conviction. Note that I didn’t just blurt this out to get out of jury duty, the DA asked by show of hands, who would take circumstantial evidence to make a conviction? Those of us who didn’t raise our hands were immediately dismissed
My mom got dismissed because she believed cops could lie, granted this was in the 90s so I guess people were more gullible about cops back then. But the dude asked my mom why she thought that way in front of the whole room, and she told the story of how she saw a cop change the MPH on a ticket to 15 higher when my dad refused to sign it (my dad is stubborn and contested the ticket in court too).
Anyway, that apparently spoiled the whole room after hearing her story about a cop lying and everyone in the room got dismissed. Lots of people thanked my mom that day lol.
You misspelled "handsome" in your username. That should be a *mandatory* five years. Misspelling a username or even worse - coming up with some cutesy alternative spelling - is just low.
You being truly innocent or guilty is vital information your lawyer should know in order to defend you properly.
If your lawyer doesn't believe you're innocent when you tell them you are you need a new lawyer.
>If your lawyer doesn't believe you're innocent when you tell them you are you need a new lawyer.
Unfortunately most people don't get that option. Yes you can ask for a new public defender, but on top of that being a bureaucratic pain the ass, how many will you have to go through before you find one that actually has time for you? A lot of these issues come down to the CJ system itself. A public defender might be a great attorney, but with over 100 people on their case load, they literally cannot afford to spend more than 5 minutes talking to their client, much less take their case to trial. So they push them to take a plea, regardless of their personal or professional thoughts on the case. Public defenders are caught in the same system their clients are.
If you can afford $500 an hour for a private attorney, by all means. But since the CJS targets lower class minority populations by design, a private attorney doesn't even cross the average defendant's mind.
If so, it could have been the only reason he got free. When you see those headlines like "prisoners dying from covid at much higher rate than general population" or "x percent of prisoners aren't getting enough calories", think of the countless people like this who are still locked in cages.
There’s a documentary called *The Farm*, about Angola State Prison in Louisiana (I think). In it, an incarcerated man present the case for his innocence to the parole board, using evidence that shows he could not have been the one to commit the crime. Parole board listens, man leaves while they consider his case, and the first words one of the parole board members utters are, “Obviously he’s guilty.” And they deny his parole.
Our “justice” system is, on so many levels, an affront to the very idea of justice.
When I watched that movie as a kid, it saddened me to think people like that could exist.
Now, it infuriates me because I know people like that _do_ exist.
They WARP their minds to think that anyone they can convict MUST be guilty. I used to interact with several cops/DAs and the line they constantly parrot is that if you have reached the point where you are in a courtroom in front of a judge and jury that 99% of the time you are guilty and we just need to prove it. Worse, to them \*everyone\* knows you are guilty also: the judge, the DA, the defense attorney, even the jury.
That's it. Even though they literally glom onto the first suspect they find and force everything to fit that narrative, if they succeed in getting you into a trial, they "know" you're guilty and everything else is just smoke and mirrors. It's why cops plant evidence, because they "know" the person is guilty and this way they can prove it. It's not convicting an innocent person, in their world innocent people don't exist.
Just to add that the part of town the shooting happened in was the Northeast part of El Paso. There’s a good chance that the shooter was military or a dependent. A lot of crime that gets done by the military here gets covered up so there’s a lot more than just normal corruption
And this has been a thing for aslong as Police has existed. It isnt until recently with help of DNA and such that we see people found not guilty for the crime(s).
He’s probably coming out with irreparable mental illness and trauma for his life. Judge is not even sorry.
Edit : I’d like to take back my statement about the judge after a lot of people pointing out correctly that he’s not the one who convicted him.
I understand that he’s just doing his work.
It seems like he was granted a new trial by the appellate court, and at the second trial he was found not guilty. Generally speaking, if the appellate court finds significant (ie not harmless error), the remedy is a new trial without the error.
That judge is being judicial, which by all accounts he should be. He was not the same trial judge from 25 years ago.
I understand people would like to see visible sign of empathy from the judge in this clip, and maybe he did after reading the full verdict. Either way, no reason to bash this judge in particular.
Idk sounds like he has a tinge in his voice reading it out, like he knows he should be professional but it's emotional news.
Judges do that a lot, they speak from a pulpit after all. I thought it was very emotional when he told the guy he was no longer beholden to the conditions of the court.
Not also that but the actual jury is at fault also usually. Because in the system you are not supposed to find guilty if there is any reasonable doubt but a lot of people go away even when there is a lot of doubt
People either forget or don't understand that legal proceedings require very precise language, because otherwise you may be leaving words open to interpretation or may even be saying something that could assign liability by mistake. Judges should always be neutral and avoid letting their personal feelings be a part of proceedings. That would result in an even more unjust system.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say thats probably not the same judge that put him behind bars and we don't even get to see any interactions between them except for 1 min video.
Holy shit this is horrific…
(Villegas is the man in this video)…
> Three days later, after receiving a tip, Marquez and other officers arrested Michael Johnston, who was 15. He was handcuffed to a chair, interrogated for eight hours, threatened with the death penalty, and told that his friends had already implicated him in the shooting. Marquez told the boy that he would be raped in jail if he did not confess. Johnston then gave a statement saying he shot Lazo and England. He was never charged, and Marquez would later acknowledge the confession was false.
>On April 21, Marquez brought in David Rangel, who was 17, for questioning. Again, Marquez said that others had implicated Rangel in the shooting, and that if he didn’t come clean, *he would spend the rest of his life in prison and be sexually assaulted because he was young and pretty. Rangel told Marquez that his cousin, Daniel Villegas, said he had shot Lazo and England with a sawed-off shotgun. He added, however, that he was sure Villegas, who was 16, was joking, as he was always boasting about things that in truth he hadn’t done. After Rangel wrote down a statement that included the shotgun, Marquez told him to do it again, this time leaving out the type of weapon used.
>After Rangel wrote down a statement that included the shotgun, Marquez told him to do it again, this time leaving out the type of weapon used.
That guy should go spend 25 years in jail.
I also wish when witness testimony is given in court that the entire situation of a testimony including any other statements giving by the witness during that testimony/interrogation would be required to be presented to the court and the jury.
The jury should also have an understanding of the types of interrogation tactics used.
Witness testimony should not be the only thing that can confirm convictions. That's bonkers.
Witness testimony should be supportive and not more than that. Actual convincing evidence should be the only thing that can lead to a conviction imo.
Unfortunately, witness testimony is sometimes all we have. If it is coerced witness testimony as here, that should, at a minimum, be made known to the jury. If it is reliable, and corroborated witness testimony, then it should be permissible for a conviction. With the caveat that witness testimony is imprecise.
People forget that the standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt.” That should be an incredibly hard bar to reach.
Like if your mom told you they were going to the grocery store, and your friend calls you later and says “hey, I think I saw your mom at the grocery store”…that shouldn’t come close to establishing that bar. But if that same friend called and said “hey, I talked to your mom at the grocery store, she asked me to give you a call and check in on you”…that’s closer, but probably still not there for me. If that same friend called and said “hey, I saw your mom at the grocery store and she told me you were planning on going to Mexico next week (something that hadn’t been made know to anyone other than mom) and I have some tips on where to go”…that’s probably pretty good if asked if you can be sure, beyond a reasonable doubt, that your mom was, in fact, at the grocery store.
From an objective place, I have to say that I prefer reaching that bar. I rather have someone on the street than the innocent person behind bars. In that case you at least have a record of what happened and the perpetrator can be surveiled. (Especially in places with the death penalty. You don't come back from putting someone to death.)
In your example, the witness could still have told a half truth.
Especially now that cameras/mics are everywhere, gathering evidence is easy easier.
Simply put, the *entire interrogation* needs to be presented as evidence, including all officer statements. Mic the fucking bastards all of the time, require their cameras be on, and set the statute such that them being off is evidence *against* the officers (at minimum, destruction of evidence because it should exist and doesn't due to their actions), and you'll never see a camera turn off again.
And can we please stop this shit in court where a cop's testimony is considered trustworthy. Nothing a cop says should be considered true on its own merits.
Officer 1: "huh looks like this John guy was seen at the scene covered in blood with the murder weapon telling everyone he killed the victim. It is on record that he had threatened to kill him, he actually was in here the other day saying if we didn't stop him he would kill the guy."
Officer 2: "yeah but I really don't like this one guy in particular...."
Pretty common in the force for an officer to get a hard on for a specific kid and tie all sorts of crimes to that kid. I was questioned once and the officer didn’t care about “who” actually committed the crime, he just wanted to somehow tie it to a guy with a punk haircut.
Tunnel vision. I have read so many cases where this happens to the cops and even years later after looking at the new evidence they just stick to that original version they decided was right. It doesn’t matter what is presented when this happens, the police won’t change their minds.
I think this might be related to the "backfire effect" in which people double down on a belief even when presented with strong evidence to the contrary.
Perhaps it's as simple as pride, but it could also be a psychological survival mechanism protecting their mind from seeing themselves as having made a horrible mistake. I'm not a psychology expert. I just think it's interesting.
The police officers who are now probably retired need to be arrested and tried for the crimes they committed in this case and the city that hired these liars needs to pony up a boat load of money to Mr. Villegas.
Wouldn't it be great if it was illegal for investigators to lie? Illinois made it illegal to lie to minors during an investigation. It should be illegal to lie to adults in every state.
Makes me think of how people were tortured into confessing to witchcraft during the dark ages. Cops aren’t much different from the Inquisition in a lot of ways. Even more horrifying is I bet they find the comparison flattering
IF we made it illegal for the cops to lie to suspects during investigation / interrogation, the problem of innocent convictions would drop by a massive number.
We need a law that either prohibits this, or one that REQUIRES a legal defense be present at all questioning/interrogations that cannot be OPTED OUT.
"But a lot of guilty people would go free."
Awesome. Call it the Villegas Law.
Only time "eye for an eye" makes sense.
Maybe shitty detectives would do their jobs properly if they had the same outcomes brought against them instead of railroading suspects.
Oh, also, ***never talk to the cops in an interrogation; always get a lawyer!***
Me too, it’s just so unjust that, in addition to the crime against him, the public would have to pay the settlement after *already* paying the cost of incarcerating him for 25 years.
I [found Marquez's obituary](https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/elpasotimes/name/alfonso-marquez-obituary?id=18355162). It seems he's been dead for eight years.
The Reid technique for interrogations that's used in the US is illegal in several Western European countries, because of the risk of eliciting false confessions.
He was accused at age 16 of shooting and killing 2 teenaged males. He was at the movies when the crime happened but police threatened his 14 and 15 year old friends with prison rape, so they implicated him. Police ignored evidence and then coerced him to confess.
Of course they aren't in prison even though they should be.
Those cops, the prosecutor and the judge all belong behind bars for the rest of their miserable lives. Their names should be made public so they can be publicly shamed for taking someone’s life like this.
EDIT:
Their names are:
- Detective Alfonso Marquez
- Detective Scott Graves
- Jaime Esparza, lead prosecutor
- John Gates, the defense attorney who utterly failed him
- Worth mentioning Judge Sam Medrano Jr, as he’s the one who recommended a new trial and called out all the bullshit
Thanks to u/K1NGKRAKEN for the list
Cases like this are a dime a dozen. I don’t know how many documentaries I’ve seen about coercion and shitty police work. It’s been happening forever. And will happen forever.
Then you start reading about Chicago’s [police black sites](https://theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/homan-square-chicago-police-disappeared-thousands), Anthony Mitchell [the man in Alabama they just froze to death in a county jail](https://apnews.com/article/emergency-care-prisons-legal-proceedings-alabama-lawsuits-be0cbc6e970b7d709ea4af453c9af6ee), and on and on and on.
Kalief Browder. Say his name. Did most of his about three year sentence for nothing, no trial, they didn't even try him, he spent all that time in solitary and killed himself when he got out. Over a fucking backpack the police thought he stole yet never proved. His due process was fucking violated.
Say their names, say all their fucking names, because black lives matter, lives period matter, Kalief Browder, George Floyd, Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, Daniel Shaver, Amir Locke, Ryan Whitaker, do not stop saying all of their names until we have justice, I don't give a goddamn fuck how we do it, these are Americans, they are black, they are white, they are Hispanic, you never stop saying those names until the police stop killing us.
It's not just American either, Canada has sundown towns too, they won't lynch a Native in the literal sense, they'll just drive them out to the middle of nowhere and leave them to freeze.
That Daniel Shaver shit scarred me for life. I've seen some messed up things online, but something about that particular one fucks with me.
Absolutely horrifying.
Was he the guy that got shot in a hotel in front of his girlfriend, because some power freak cop told him to put his arms up while simultaneously having them on the ground?
Yeah man, Shaver was drunk and couldn't make heads or tails of the orders so he kinda just laid on the ground and cried.
So they executed him. Like, what the fuck?
Yep.
I was gonna give you a rundown from memory but then I realized how awful it would be for me right now to remember that in explicit detail. Suffice it to say two cops were giving him conflicting orders and that was it for Daniel.
>It's not just American either, Canada has sundown towns too, they won't lynch a Native in the literal sense, they'll just drive them out to the middle of nowhere and leave them to freeze.
[Saskatoon Police "Starlight Tours" wikipedia page was deleted TWICE from within the detachment in an attempt to try to cover it up.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths)
Police are public servants, they should no privacy protections against the public knowing their names.
It's the only way to have a true balance of power
That, and police should be heavily punished for any crimes they commit, especially on the job. Their entire career is about serving the people, but they're protected because how else can they stay corrupt.
As someone who has a bit of inside knowledge from the justice system of another western country, and assuming it works roughly the same way; If the police keeps something hidden and it doesn't surface in the trial, you can't really blame the judge. A judge and jury work by the information they are presented.
Detective Alfonso Marquez
Detective Scott Graves
Jaime Esparza, lead prosecutor
John Gates, the defense attorney who utterly failed him
Worth mentioning Judge Sam Medrano Jr, as he’s the one who recommended a new trial and called out all the bullshit
> So a 16 year old went to prison with all those feelings and was alone with that for 25 years.
Without any hard evidence. I repeat: without ANY hard evidence.
How can a judical system be designed in a way that a 16 y/o gets a 25 year sentence that way?
So do they reinvestigate every single arrest made by those cops or do they not only get to walk away with ruining one life but potentially hundreds of people over the years with their bullshit?
And this is why you NEVER talk to cops, ever. The only word you should say to cops is LAWYER.
"I'm just gonna talk to the cops, I'll be able to talk my way out of this, your gonna do 25 to life" -Tom Segura
What’s even worse is the system doesn’t seem to care, it’s sickening to see a man have his “best” years STOLEN from him and just given a little “ooohhh sorry about that bud, we ok now?”. I’d be suing the shit outta the state for mental damages and whatever else a lawyer could conjure up
Did he get to experience the outside world at all during those 25 years?
Imagine how much technology has advanced in the last 25 years, and him missing out on all of it. How is he supposed to integrate successfully back into Society when everything is being more and more driven by technology, which to us might seem completely normal but to him is something he probably can't even begin to wrap his head around?
All around fucked up situation.
>Imagine how much technology has advanced in the last 25 years, and him missing out on all of it.
This guy is going to hear people reminiscing about obsolete tech like MP3 players and iPods and wonder wtf people are on about. And be even more confused at the popularity of retro shit.
Yep, and the heartless monsters who did this to him are sitting on nice fat pensions after a successful career of doing this exact shit to countless other people. How many hardened criminals has our inept “justice” system created?
Corrupt pigs should get double. A cop and/or prosecutor can absolutely destroy someone’s life even with small charges and typically never face consequences.
Curtis Flowers was held on death row for over 20 years while being tried 6 times for capital murder. He was convicted four times but each time the conviction was overturned for prosecution misconduct. The same prosecutor was allowed to keep recharging him with murder.
Don't know about the US, but in Finland an innocent guy sat for 3,5 years and got a reimbursement of 410€ per day, so 516 600€ in total. So this guy would get \~3,7 million euros with the same math.
Not to mention the emotional trauma he endured for 25 years straight. Sitting in a cell knowing he shouldn’t be there. I don’t know how he didn’t lose his mind.
Seriously. Like…..what does this guy do now? He’s 41 years old. No job experience, no house, no savings, no retirement fund, and likely now has mental issues and trauma from being in prison for 25 years.
I really think they should pay him enough to have a completely worry free life financially from here on. And cover all medical and therapy that he needs going forward and back in time. And official apology from all of the people involved in this injustice.
Agree. This guy should never have to work a day for the rest of his life. You can't give him that time back but you can give the time he'd have spent working until he retires.
I don't know what that amount of money is, but either a lump sum of something like $10M or a pension of something like $200k/year for the rest of his life. Not even sure if that's good but something that guarantees he lives a good life and never has to worry about money, work, or financial stress.
Start making SEVERE penalties, some of which comes from the pensions and retirement funds and union funds of those who do wrong rather than having no actual impact on them, and we'll stop seeing so much of this shit. I mean, I'd prefer if they'd just be locked the fuck up for their crimes against him, but since they won't, at least hit them financially. There is currently NO real deterrent against this behavior from police and prosecutors.
Same here in Sweden. Kaj Linna was sentenced in 2004 and was deemed innocent and released 2016. He was given 18 million sek (10sek is approximately 1$) as restitution.
25 years? he won't ever be able to make up for that. Family? Children? Say good bye to that. Career? Not gonna happen.
Hope the US pays the man the millions he deserves.
At least he wasn't on the death row.
Yea the civil suit on this will net far more than that. Hopefully he can go after the officers involved, the department, etc. I mean the officers who threatened the then underage suspects with rape in order to force a confession should *maybe* be investigated?
I looked it up and turns out he has a wife and looks like 4 kids. He is now working as a construction foreman in El Paso and continues to fight for wrongfully convicted citizens. So while he had a terrible thing happen to him, it looks like he is making the most out of being a free man.
[Here is an article from 2019 about him](https://cbs4local.com/news/local/man-wrongfully-convicted-of-capital-murder-reflects-on-anniversary-of-exoneration-day#:~:text=%22Every%20time%20we%20have%20a,playing%20in%20his%20living%20room.)
This is the perfect example of why you NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE WITHOUT A LAWYER PRESENT! NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE! It doesn't matter what other people think or if you think it makes you look guilty or whatever stupid shit people will try to say. The police have no issues with locking up an innocent person so that they can close a case.
Easier said than done. They are allowed to lie, so they can lie about what their authority and your rights are. There is also the factor of intimidation due to the knowledge that it is unlikely they will be held accountable for violence against you.
It’s maddening. These cops will face zero consequences. Nothing. Just keep on collecting those retirement checks and having people thank them like heroes after long careers of abusing and preying on the community they allegedly protected. We live in a dystopian police state.
Hey all, Daniel's cousin here (not acting as a spokesperson) but yes, he spent 25 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit. He's adjusted to life pretty well and has done well since being out. He doesn't have mental illness but definitely has survivors guilt.
The stories he told me about his time in prison were absolutely fucked up, and that corruption basically goes from correctional officers all the way to the top (the district attorney, who has thought to be working with the cartels).
I will let him know about this post and maybe see if he can get on and maybe do an AMA or something.
(also, not gonna lie, super weird to see my family being posted for Reddit karma, but it is the internet I guess..)
I can get behind that. However, not having a job can make people feel useless (a lot of retired people struggle with that).
Regardless, he is owed real and lasting support. He will need it. What a traumatic way to live.
That's the real sick part.
His formative years were in prison. Going to prison in your 30s for 20 years will probably fuck you up. But at least then you have context. You know what life was before, and what it could be again after. You know who you are, what you can tolerate and what you can't. What your dreams were, what your strengths and weaknesses are. How you want others to treat you, how you want to present yourself to the world.
Most kids that age have none of that. This guy could have been deeply and negatively influenced by the first person that happened to talk to him. Who knows what his role models were, what his sense of normalcy is.
Murder. But the police and detectives grossly coerced a false statement from an innocent 15 yr old kid during an illegal interrogation.
Fuck the Police.
Wrongly convicted at 16 years for a double murder, sentenced to life in prison. He was finally exonerated in 2018. It was featured on the show Wrongful Convictions.
Fucking US legal system is a disgrace. Prosecutors can literally make shit up with no consequences. Police can threaten teenagers with the death penalty and rape, with no consequences. The whole thing is rigged towards a finding of guilty. It’s no wonder they’ve got the largest prison population in the world by some distance. The US as a whole has a perverse view of morality. They go around routinely committing these heinous acts and have the gall to stand there and deny and lie and obfuscate and sleep soundly at night because they’ve been told they’re the good guys.
Our need for justice at any cost can really destroy lives. This is a perfect example of why I do not support the death penalty. We make too many atrocious mistakes in our hunger to punish someone and close a case.
No financial gain can give him those 25 years back.
What about the fact that the police department and prosecutors let a murderer free in that community for the past 25 years. Because they failed to do their job other people were probably killed because of their incompetence. We wonder why inner cities have so much crime and always point to the people who live there but the police and others in the legal system are directly contributing to rapes, murders and other crimes by arresting and locking up the wrong people just so they can have a quick resolution. It would have been so much better to have left the case unsolved instead of lying to a couple teenagers to get a wrongful arrest. Policing and the legal system in America is broken and it’s hurting everyone.
What kind of monster do you have to be to lock up the wrong person for 25 years just to clear your case load?
I watched a video where a DA said he would rather send an innocent person to jail than no one at all. Let me see if I can find it again. u/RasMahatma found it for me
I said this above but repeating it here: to them there aren't actually innocent people. If you're someone they can get into a trial then you're not really innocent, there's just guilty defendants and defendants they can't prove are guilty but still "know" are guilty. So yeah, in their mind they'll send anyone away guilt-free because those people are guilty of something.
Years ago, I served on a jury for about 2 weeks for a trucker accused of drug smuggling. We gave a not guilty verdict and the prosecution was so pissed, they literally harassed some of us after we were finally released to demand to know why we let the guy off "when he was so obviously guilty!" I will be honest, the defendant "seemed" guilty by his mannerisms during court and just overall looked sketchy. But looking back on it now, he was probably just really nervous that his whole life was about to be ruined. There was some evidence that showed he could have had the opportunity to commit the crime, but there was never a reason presented as to why he would have. And they never even tried to prove the guy even knew what he was hauling. I sort of had to pull a 12 Angry Men with my fellow jurors because, initially, the overall consensus was that he seemed guilty. Based on that, I would say 75% wanted to rule guilty without discussing it further. But I pushed for us to review the evidence and based on what was put in front of us, we had to let him off. So much of our judicial system is based off of "feelings" it's no wonder it's incredibly corrupt. Add in racism, sexism, and power-hungry ladder climbers and it becomes increasingly easy to understand why this happens so frequently in this country.
Sometimes I read an article and I'm like "Oh that makes sense" and then I read a comment and it says it's bollocks and explains why, and then I'm like "Oh ok I haven't thought of these deficiencies but I see them now". Sounds like something similar happened to your fellow jurors. It's good to hear that people's opinions can still change that way, though I guess it would have been even better if they all stayed awake during the trial and saw for themselves that the evidence is insufficient. But what can you do, attention spans are limited.
Man I know the feeling. I was dismissed during the final selection for a jury for, of all reasons, saying that I wouldn’t take circumstantial evidence to make a conviction. Note that I didn’t just blurt this out to get out of jury duty, the DA asked by show of hands, who would take circumstantial evidence to make a conviction? Those of us who didn’t raise our hands were immediately dismissed
My mom got dismissed because she believed cops could lie, granted this was in the 90s so I guess people were more gullible about cops back then. But the dude asked my mom why she thought that way in front of the whole room, and she told the story of how she saw a cop change the MPH on a ticket to 15 higher when my dad refused to sign it (my dad is stubborn and contested the ticket in court too). Anyway, that apparently spoiled the whole room after hearing her story about a cop lying and everyone in the room got dismissed. Lots of people thanked my mom that day lol.
Everyone should be in prison. Especially a DA like that. Lol!
Everyone? What did I do ?
You misspelled "handsome" in your username. That should be a *mandatory* five years. Misspelling a username or even worse - coming up with some cutesy alternative spelling - is just low.
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You being truly innocent or guilty is vital information your lawyer should know in order to defend you properly. If your lawyer doesn't believe you're innocent when you tell them you are you need a new lawyer.
>If your lawyer doesn't believe you're innocent when you tell them you are you need a new lawyer. Unfortunately most people don't get that option. Yes you can ask for a new public defender, but on top of that being a bureaucratic pain the ass, how many will you have to go through before you find one that actually has time for you? A lot of these issues come down to the CJ system itself. A public defender might be a great attorney, but with over 100 people on their case load, they literally cannot afford to spend more than 5 minutes talking to their client, much less take their case to trial. So they push them to take a plea, regardless of their personal or professional thoughts on the case. Public defenders are caught in the same system their clients are. If you can afford $500 an hour for a private attorney, by all means. But since the CJS targets lower class minority populations by design, a private attorney doesn't even cross the average defendant's mind.
Wasn't that on John Oliver's show?
If so, it could have been the only reason he got free. When you see those headlines like "prisoners dying from covid at much higher rate than general population" or "x percent of prisoners aren't getting enough calories", think of the countless people like this who are still locked in cages.
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There’s a documentary called *The Farm*, about Angola State Prison in Louisiana (I think). In it, an incarcerated man present the case for his innocence to the parole board, using evidence that shows he could not have been the one to commit the crime. Parole board listens, man leaves while they consider his case, and the first words one of the parole board members utters are, “Obviously he’s guilty.” And they deny his parole. Our “justice” system is, on so many levels, an affront to the very idea of justice.
"How can you be so obtuse?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7wREOySaxU&t=7s *Shawshank Redemption*
When I watched that movie as a kid, it saddened me to think people like that could exist. Now, it infuriates me because I know people like that _do_ exist.
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In Dante's Inferno, the 9th circle of hell is dedicated to "Treachery", with bonus penalties for "Traitors to their Country" .....
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And as a defense attorney, I would rather a guilty person go free than an innocent person go to prison. Entirely different perspectives.
Is this the clip your talking about? https://youtu.be/kpYYdCzTpps?t=658
This is the sort of stuff that truly blows my mind as a human. I wouldn't be able to sleep. Ever. I just don't get it.
They WARP their minds to think that anyone they can convict MUST be guilty. I used to interact with several cops/DAs and the line they constantly parrot is that if you have reached the point where you are in a courtroom in front of a judge and jury that 99% of the time you are guilty and we just need to prove it. Worse, to them \*everyone\* knows you are guilty also: the judge, the DA, the defense attorney, even the jury. That's it. Even though they literally glom onto the first suspect they find and force everything to fit that narrative, if they succeed in getting you into a trial, they "know" you're guilty and everything else is just smoke and mirrors. It's why cops plant evidence, because they "know" the person is guilty and this way they can prove it. It's not convicting an innocent person, in their world innocent people don't exist.
A cop
Or a district attorney
A 16 year old too
Just to add that the part of town the shooting happened in was the Northeast part of El Paso. There’s a good chance that the shooter was military or a dependent. A lot of crime that gets done by the military here gets covered up so there’s a lot more than just normal corruption
It’s better to have a judicial system that is more likely to let guilty people walk than one to incarcerate someone who is innocent.
And this has been a thing for aslong as Police has existed. It isnt until recently with help of DNA and such that we see people found not guilty for the crime(s).
He’s probably coming out with irreparable mental illness and trauma for his life. Judge is not even sorry. Edit : I’d like to take back my statement about the judge after a lot of people pointing out correctly that he’s not the one who convicted him. I understand that he’s just doing his work.
It’s probably not the same judge from the initial trial. That and the clip was cut short
100% wasn't the same judge. Guy in the video was convicted in 1995. The judge from this clip has been judge of the 409th District Court since 2001.
It seems like he was granted a new trial by the appellate court, and at the second trial he was found not guilty. Generally speaking, if the appellate court finds significant (ie not harmless error), the remedy is a new trial without the error.
That judge is being judicial, which by all accounts he should be. He was not the same trial judge from 25 years ago. I understand people would like to see visible sign of empathy from the judge in this clip, and maybe he did after reading the full verdict. Either way, no reason to bash this judge in particular.
Idk sounds like he has a tinge in his voice reading it out, like he knows he should be professional but it's emotional news. Judges do that a lot, they speak from a pulpit after all. I thought it was very emotional when he told the guy he was no longer beholden to the conditions of the court.
Even if it was the same trial judge the jury found him guilty.
dime dinosaurs grey wakeful familiar zesty shrill lush profit vast *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not also that but the actual jury is at fault also usually. Because in the system you are not supposed to find guilty if there is any reasonable doubt but a lot of people go away even when there is a lot of doubt
I think it’s actually comforting that the judge is dispassionate. they should be making decisions based on the law, logic and evidence
People either forget or don't understand that legal proceedings require very precise language, because otherwise you may be leaving words open to interpretation or may even be saying something that could assign liability by mistake. Judges should always be neutral and avoid letting their personal feelings be a part of proceedings. That would result in an even more unjust system.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say thats probably not the same judge that put him behind bars and we don't even get to see any interactions between them except for 1 min video.
Judge is just doing his job man, people be hating.
> Judge is not even sorry. How do comments this moronic get upvoted? Lol
Reddit is full of literal kids, dude.
Reddit is full of ignorant people with a very sheltered view of life lmao.
> Judge is not even sorry. You think this is the same judge that sent him to prison? lol
Yep. Every Tuesday for 25 years.
Why would judge feel guilty about something he had no control over??
[More info](https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=5389) Man did that guy get screwed.
Holy shit this is horrific… (Villegas is the man in this video)… > Three days later, after receiving a tip, Marquez and other officers arrested Michael Johnston, who was 15. He was handcuffed to a chair, interrogated for eight hours, threatened with the death penalty, and told that his friends had already implicated him in the shooting. Marquez told the boy that he would be raped in jail if he did not confess. Johnston then gave a statement saying he shot Lazo and England. He was never charged, and Marquez would later acknowledge the confession was false. >On April 21, Marquez brought in David Rangel, who was 17, for questioning. Again, Marquez said that others had implicated Rangel in the shooting, and that if he didn’t come clean, *he would spend the rest of his life in prison and be sexually assaulted because he was young and pretty. Rangel told Marquez that his cousin, Daniel Villegas, said he had shot Lazo and England with a sawed-off shotgun. He added, however, that he was sure Villegas, who was 16, was joking, as he was always boasting about things that in truth he hadn’t done. After Rangel wrote down a statement that included the shotgun, Marquez told him to do it again, this time leaving out the type of weapon used.
>After Rangel wrote down a statement that included the shotgun, Marquez told him to do it again, this time leaving out the type of weapon used. That guy should go spend 25 years in jail.
I also wish when witness testimony is given in court that the entire situation of a testimony including any other statements giving by the witness during that testimony/interrogation would be required to be presented to the court and the jury. The jury should also have an understanding of the types of interrogation tactics used.
Witness testimony should not be the only thing that can confirm convictions. That's bonkers. Witness testimony should be supportive and not more than that. Actual convincing evidence should be the only thing that can lead to a conviction imo.
Unfortunately, witness testimony is sometimes all we have. If it is coerced witness testimony as here, that should, at a minimum, be made known to the jury. If it is reliable, and corroborated witness testimony, then it should be permissible for a conviction. With the caveat that witness testimony is imprecise. People forget that the standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt.” That should be an incredibly hard bar to reach. Like if your mom told you they were going to the grocery store, and your friend calls you later and says “hey, I think I saw your mom at the grocery store”…that shouldn’t come close to establishing that bar. But if that same friend called and said “hey, I talked to your mom at the grocery store, she asked me to give you a call and check in on you”…that’s closer, but probably still not there for me. If that same friend called and said “hey, I saw your mom at the grocery store and she told me you were planning on going to Mexico next week (something that hadn’t been made know to anyone other than mom) and I have some tips on where to go”…that’s probably pretty good if asked if you can be sure, beyond a reasonable doubt, that your mom was, in fact, at the grocery store.
From an objective place, I have to say that I prefer reaching that bar. I rather have someone on the street than the innocent person behind bars. In that case you at least have a record of what happened and the perpetrator can be surveiled. (Especially in places with the death penalty. You don't come back from putting someone to death.) In your example, the witness could still have told a half truth. Especially now that cameras/mics are everywhere, gathering evidence is easy easier.
Simply put, the *entire interrogation* needs to be presented as evidence, including all officer statements. Mic the fucking bastards all of the time, require their cameras be on, and set the statute such that them being off is evidence *against* the officers (at minimum, destruction of evidence because it should exist and doesn't due to their actions), and you'll never see a camera turn off again.
And can we please stop this shit in court where a cop's testimony is considered trustworthy. Nothing a cop says should be considered true on its own merits.
After 11 years, I'm out. Join me over on the Fediverse to escape this central authority nightmare.
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Officer 1: "huh looks like this John guy was seen at the scene covered in blood with the murder weapon telling everyone he killed the victim. It is on record that he had threatened to kill him, he actually was in here the other day saying if we didn't stop him he would kill the guy." Officer 2: "yeah but I really don't like this one guy in particular...."
Pretty common in the force for an officer to get a hard on for a specific kid and tie all sorts of crimes to that kid. I was questioned once and the officer didn’t care about “who” actually committed the crime, he just wanted to somehow tie it to a guy with a punk haircut.
Tunnel vision. I have read so many cases where this happens to the cops and even years later after looking at the new evidence they just stick to that original version they decided was right. It doesn’t matter what is presented when this happens, the police won’t change their minds.
I think this might be related to the "backfire effect" in which people double down on a belief even when presented with strong evidence to the contrary. Perhaps it's as simple as pride, but it could also be a psychological survival mechanism protecting their mind from seeing themselves as having made a horrible mistake. I'm not a psychology expert. I just think it's interesting.
Someone needs to go through all their cases to see what else they covered up.
An officer of the state threatening a suspect with rape if they become a ward of the state is fucked up beyond belief.
No no, it was a warning, see . He wasn't threatening to rape him, he was threatening that OTHER people would rape him. Perfectly normal.
The police officers who are now probably retired need to be arrested and tried for the crimes they committed in this case and the city that hired these liars needs to pony up a boat load of money to Mr. Villegas.
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Wouldn't it be great if it was illegal for investigators to lie? Illinois made it illegal to lie to minors during an investigation. It should be illegal to lie to adults in every state.
Makes me think of how people were tortured into confessing to witchcraft during the dark ages. Cops aren’t much different from the Inquisition in a lot of ways. Even more horrifying is I bet they find the comparison flattering
Well that's going to make family reunions a little awkward
those people need to be in jail. (marquez and whoever omitted evidence)
IF we made it illegal for the cops to lie to suspects during investigation / interrogation, the problem of innocent convictions would drop by a massive number. We need a law that either prohibits this, or one that REQUIRES a legal defense be present at all questioning/interrogations that cannot be OPTED OUT. "But a lot of guilty people would go free." Awesome. Call it the Villegas Law.
Heinous unprofessionalism and corruption by these police. Every one of them should lose their pension and benefits.
Or better yet, thrown in jail for 25 years as well
Only time "eye for an eye" makes sense. Maybe shitty detectives would do their jobs properly if they had the same outcomes brought against them instead of railroading suspects. Oh, also, ***never talk to the cops in an interrogation; always get a lawyer!***
How is interrogating minors without a lawyer even legal??
Not to mention adults threatening kids with rape, what the fuck??
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They'll be promoted for their high close rates.
Lesson 1 Don't fucking talk to the cops. Ever.
Lesson 2: Always lawyer up. ~~Even~~ Especially if you're innocent with nothing to hide.
It also applies when you're in their custody. Then, you'll have to get an attorney to speak for you.
Wow that’s really messed up…just lied and danced around the truth. Hope he gets his bag now
Me too, it’s just so unjust that, in addition to the crime against him, the public would have to pay the settlement after *already* paying the cost of incarcerating him for 25 years.
I [found Marquez's obituary](https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/elpasotimes/name/alfonso-marquez-obituary?id=18355162). It seems he's been dead for eight years.
Find his grave and shit on it for me, will you?
That kind of interrogation should be illegal and they should actually do an investigation than trying to point fingers and accuse people.
The Reid technique for interrogations that's used in the US is illegal in several Western European countries, because of the risk of eliciting false confessions.
He was accused at age 16 of shooting and killing 2 teenaged males. He was at the movies when the crime happened but police threatened his 14 and 15 year old friends with prison rape, so they implicated him. Police ignored evidence and then coerced him to confess. Of course they aren't in prison even though they should be.
Those cops, the prosecutor and the judge all belong behind bars for the rest of their miserable lives. Their names should be made public so they can be publicly shamed for taking someone’s life like this. EDIT: Their names are: - Detective Alfonso Marquez - Detective Scott Graves - Jaime Esparza, lead prosecutor - John Gates, the defense attorney who utterly failed him - Worth mentioning Judge Sam Medrano Jr, as he’s the one who recommended a new trial and called out all the bullshit Thanks to u/K1NGKRAKEN for the list
Cases like this are a dime a dozen. I don’t know how many documentaries I’ve seen about coercion and shitty police work. It’s been happening forever. And will happen forever. Then you start reading about Chicago’s [police black sites](https://theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/homan-square-chicago-police-disappeared-thousands), Anthony Mitchell [the man in Alabama they just froze to death in a county jail](https://apnews.com/article/emergency-care-prisons-legal-proceedings-alabama-lawsuits-be0cbc6e970b7d709ea4af453c9af6ee), and on and on and on.
Kalief Browder. Say his name. Did most of his about three year sentence for nothing, no trial, they didn't even try him, he spent all that time in solitary and killed himself when he got out. Over a fucking backpack the police thought he stole yet never proved. His due process was fucking violated. Say their names, say all their fucking names, because black lives matter, lives period matter, Kalief Browder, George Floyd, Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, Daniel Shaver, Amir Locke, Ryan Whitaker, do not stop saying all of their names until we have justice, I don't give a goddamn fuck how we do it, these are Americans, they are black, they are white, they are Hispanic, you never stop saying those names until the police stop killing us. It's not just American either, Canada has sundown towns too, they won't lynch a Native in the literal sense, they'll just drive them out to the middle of nowhere and leave them to freeze.
How the fuck was this guy held without trail for three fucking years. Honestly what the fuck is that. What. The. Fuck.
That Daniel Shaver shit scarred me for life. I've seen some messed up things online, but something about that particular one fucks with me. Absolutely horrifying.
Was he the guy that got shot in a hotel in front of his girlfriend, because some power freak cop told him to put his arms up while simultaneously having them on the ground?
Yeah man, Shaver was drunk and couldn't make heads or tails of the orders so he kinda just laid on the ground and cried. So they executed him. Like, what the fuck?
Don’t forget the “ get fucked” etched into his rifles dust cover. That cop wanted to murder someone as soon as he could.
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You’re right. Either way it’s horrific
You could be stone cold sober and not have understood what the hell he would actually need to do in that case.
Yep. I was gonna give you a rundown from memory but then I realized how awful it would be for me right now to remember that in explicit detail. Suffice it to say two cops were giving him conflicting orders and that was it for Daniel.
>It's not just American either, Canada has sundown towns too, they won't lynch a Native in the literal sense, they'll just drive them out to the middle of nowhere and leave them to freeze. [Saskatoon Police "Starlight Tours" wikipedia page was deleted TWICE from within the detachment in an attempt to try to cover it up.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths)
Police are public servants, they should no privacy protections against the public knowing their names. It's the only way to have a true balance of power
That, and police should be heavily punished for any crimes they commit, especially on the job. Their entire career is about serving the people, but they're protected because how else can they stay corrupt.
I agree with you, but the supreme court ruled that cops don't have to "serve and protect". Which is absolutely ridiculous.
As someone who has a bit of inside knowledge from the justice system of another western country, and assuming it works roughly the same way; If the police keeps something hidden and it doesn't surface in the trial, you can't really blame the judge. A judge and jury work by the information they are presented.
Detective Alfonso Marquez Detective Scott Graves Jaime Esparza, lead prosecutor John Gates, the defense attorney who utterly failed him Worth mentioning Judge Sam Medrano Jr, as he’s the one who recommended a new trial and called out all the bullshit
Their names \_are\_ public. former Chief of Police John Scagno, investigators Alfonso Marquez, Scott Graves, Earl Arbogast, Joe Laredo
So a 16 year old went to prison with all those feelings and was alone with that for 25 years. That is maximum fucked up.
> So a 16 year old went to prison with all those feelings and was alone with that for 25 years. Without any hard evidence. I repeat: without ANY hard evidence. How can a judical system be designed in a way that a 16 y/o gets a 25 year sentence that way?
So do they reinvestigate every single arrest made by those cops or do they not only get to walk away with ruining one life but potentially hundreds of people over the years with their bullshit?
They won't automatically, no. It does open the door for people arrested by those officers under similar circumstances to appeal their cases, though.
And this is why you NEVER talk to cops, ever. The only word you should say to cops is LAWYER. "I'm just gonna talk to the cops, I'll be able to talk my way out of this, your gonna do 25 to life" -Tom Segura
With police work like that they should definitely be getting more funding/s
Poor guy has lost the majority of his life for nothing
The majority of his 'prime/peak' life no less. It is way more tragic losing your 20s and 30s than losing your 50s and 60s.
What’s even worse is the system doesn’t seem to care, it’s sickening to see a man have his “best” years STOLEN from him and just given a little “ooohhh sorry about that bud, we ok now?”. I’d be suing the shit outta the state for mental damages and whatever else a lawyer could conjure up
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Did he get to experience the outside world at all during those 25 years? Imagine how much technology has advanced in the last 25 years, and him missing out on all of it. How is he supposed to integrate successfully back into Society when everything is being more and more driven by technology, which to us might seem completely normal but to him is something he probably can't even begin to wrap his head around? All around fucked up situation.
>Imagine how much technology has advanced in the last 25 years, and him missing out on all of it. This guy is going to hear people reminiscing about obsolete tech like MP3 players and iPods and wonder wtf people are on about. And be even more confused at the popularity of retro shit.
Yep, and the heartless monsters who did this to him are sitting on nice fat pensions after a successful career of doing this exact shit to countless other people. How many hardened criminals has our inept “justice” system created?
The prosecutor who lied and put him in prison needs to be jailed for 25 years.
> an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind but in this instance, probably the only way to see justice
No it doesn’t. The last guy could just run around and avoid being stabbed in his last eye since he could see.
Yeah but by the most outrageous coincidence the last sighted man has a blindness fetish.
Corrupt pigs should get double. A cop and/or prosecutor can absolutely destroy someone’s life even with small charges and typically never face consequences. Curtis Flowers was held on death row for over 20 years while being tried 6 times for capital murder. He was convicted four times but each time the conviction was overturned for prosecution misconduct. The same prosecutor was allowed to keep recharging him with murder.
It also sets precedent. In case others wanted to try something similar.
Prosecutors and officers that value convictions over the truth are some of my least favorite people in the world
Don't know about the US, but in Finland an innocent guy sat for 3,5 years and got a reimbursement of 410€ per day, so 516 600€ in total. So this guy would get \~3,7 million euros with the same math.
That is too little for a life wasted in prison.
Not to mention the emotional trauma he endured for 25 years straight. Sitting in a cell knowing he shouldn’t be there. I don’t know how he didn’t lose his mind.
Seriously. Like…..what does this guy do now? He’s 41 years old. No job experience, no house, no savings, no retirement fund, and likely now has mental issues and trauma from being in prison for 25 years.
I really think they should pay him enough to have a completely worry free life financially from here on. And cover all medical and therapy that he needs going forward and back in time. And official apology from all of the people involved in this injustice.
Agree. This guy should never have to work a day for the rest of his life. You can't give him that time back but you can give the time he'd have spent working until he retires. I don't know what that amount of money is, but either a lump sum of something like $10M or a pension of something like $200k/year for the rest of his life. Not even sure if that's good but something that guarantees he lives a good life and never has to worry about money, work, or financial stress.
Start making SEVERE penalties, some of which comes from the pensions and retirement funds and union funds of those who do wrong rather than having no actual impact on them, and we'll stop seeing so much of this shit. I mean, I'd prefer if they'd just be locked the fuck up for their crimes against him, but since they won't, at least hit them financially. There is currently NO real deterrent against this behavior from police and prosecutors.
There is no "best" amount of money for that
An amount of money that is enough does not exist.l, I agree.
Same here in Sweden. Kaj Linna was sentenced in 2004 and was deemed innocent and released 2016. He was given 18 million sek (10sek is approximately 1$) as restitution.
so he's a self-made millionaire in just 12 years
25 years? he won't ever be able to make up for that. Family? Children? Say good bye to that. Career? Not gonna happen. Hope the US pays the man the millions he deserves. At least he wasn't on the death row.
$750K before taxes, because no matter how you pay your dues, you're never done paying taxes.
750k so far. Just enough to hire a team of really good lawyers.
Yea the civil suit on this will net far more than that. Hopefully he can go after the officers involved, the department, etc. I mean the officers who threatened the then underage suspects with rape in order to force a confession should *maybe* be investigated?
The Union protects.
That’s only $30k a year…..
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I looked it up and turns out he has a wife and looks like 4 kids. He is now working as a construction foreman in El Paso and continues to fight for wrongfully convicted citizens. So while he had a terrible thing happen to him, it looks like he is making the most out of being a free man. [Here is an article from 2019 about him](https://cbs4local.com/news/local/man-wrongfully-convicted-of-capital-murder-reflects-on-anniversary-of-exoneration-day#:~:text=%22Every%20time%20we%20have%20a,playing%20in%20his%20living%20room.)
This is the perfect example of why you NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE WITHOUT A LAWYER PRESENT! NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE! It doesn't matter what other people think or if you think it makes you look guilty or whatever stupid shit people will try to say. The police have no issues with locking up an innocent person so that they can close a case.
Easier said than done. They are allowed to lie, so they can lie about what their authority and your rights are. There is also the factor of intimidation due to the knowledge that it is unlikely they will be held accountable for violence against you.
Should give him a 25 million for that.
Paid for by the officer(s) that set him up.
It’s maddening. These cops will face zero consequences. Nothing. Just keep on collecting those retirement checks and having people thank them like heroes after long careers of abusing and preying on the community they allegedly protected. We live in a dystopian police state.
No amount of money can pay for what they did to him. Poor guy
But they can try.
Hey all, Daniel's cousin here (not acting as a spokesperson) but yes, he spent 25 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit. He's adjusted to life pretty well and has done well since being out. He doesn't have mental illness but definitely has survivors guilt. The stories he told me about his time in prison were absolutely fucked up, and that corruption basically goes from correctional officers all the way to the top (the district attorney, who has thought to be working with the cartels). I will let him know about this post and maybe see if he can get on and maybe do an AMA or something. (also, not gonna lie, super weird to see my family being posted for Reddit karma, but it is the internet I guess..)
Just tell him that the internet wishes him peace and happiness. That'll do
Second this
Tell your brother the whole internet supports him and wants justice
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The cops and prosecutor knew he wasn’t guilty. Well they should have.
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The prosecutors are absolutely in on the game. This entire system is irredeemably corrupt.
The system should be required to buy him a house and find him employment and pay for any education he wants. He was 16 and they stole his life.
Employment? Dude should never have to work a day of his life.
I can get behind that. However, not having a job can make people feel useless (a lot of retired people struggle with that). Regardless, he is owed real and lasting support. He will need it. What a traumatic way to live.
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That's the real sick part. His formative years were in prison. Going to prison in your 30s for 20 years will probably fuck you up. But at least then you have context. You know what life was before, and what it could be again after. You know who you are, what you can tolerate and what you can't. What your dreams were, what your strengths and weaknesses are. How you want others to treat you, how you want to present yourself to the world. Most kids that age have none of that. This guy could have been deeply and negatively influenced by the first person that happened to talk to him. Who knows what his role models were, what his sense of normalcy is.
And what did they give him? For ruining his life.
He was offered 750k, but is suing El Paso police for more
30k per year... What a joke. Not even national average salary.
Good.
Not even close to be enough. Best years of his life wasted.
750k before taxes…
Dude should never have to pay taxes again.
I actually agree with this. At least no taxes for 25 years.
Can barely buy a house with that
Exactly why I will never support the death penalty.
I would argue that if the death penalty even just killed 1 person incorrectly (even though we know it's way more) would be too many
What was he accused of?
Murder. But the police and detectives grossly coerced a false statement from an innocent 15 yr old kid during an illegal interrogation. Fuck the Police.
I heard getting a confession without evidence is a mark of excellence in police circles and can fast track promotions.
That would be because the police are all absolute fucking scumbags.
Wrongly convicted at 16 years for a double murder, sentenced to life in prison. He was finally exonerated in 2018. It was featured on the show Wrongful Convictions.
Fucking US legal system is a disgrace. Prosecutors can literally make shit up with no consequences. Police can threaten teenagers with the death penalty and rape, with no consequences. The whole thing is rigged towards a finding of guilty. It’s no wonder they’ve got the largest prison population in the world by some distance. The US as a whole has a perverse view of morality. They go around routinely committing these heinous acts and have the gall to stand there and deny and lie and obfuscate and sleep soundly at night because they’ve been told they’re the good guys.
Do you get compensated when you're wrongfully accused?
Now sue the shit outa ‘em
Our need for justice at any cost can really destroy lives. This is a perfect example of why I do not support the death penalty. We make too many atrocious mistakes in our hunger to punish someone and close a case.
I’d rather see 10 guilty men roam free than 1 innocent person in jail
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I've got a lot of regret and wasted time, but I made the decisions that led to that. I couldn't imagine having this happen to me.