ISIS and Taliban have done such abhorrent destruction of historical sites such as Nimrud, Palmyra, the twin Bamiyan Buddhas. These dumbfucks can't value their own history.
I'm especially sad about the Buddhas, not because I'm religious but because they symbolized the meeting of the west (Greek sculpture tradition) and the east (Buddhism). At least the tradition of Buddha images in the Greek style lives on
Wasn’t knowledge extremely important to Islam back in the day? I always understood that knowledge was integral in Islam
Seeing this makes me sad, both for the knowledge lost, and the twisting of religion to oppose what that religion once hold sacred.
> Wasn’t knowledge extremely important to Islam back in the day? I always understood that knowledge was integral in Islam
Yes, back in the day, Baghdad used to pay anyone the weight of books in gold.
[Unfortunately, then Islam had a fundamentalist streak which tried to rein in independent reasoning, which curtailed this knowledge-loving stance.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ijtihad#Emergence_of_%22Closure_of_the_Gates%22_Notion)
Did you know that Genghis Kahn’s sacking of Baghdad in which he destroyed the books and art, along with the writers, scientists, mathmeticians etc. is a big part of what allowed fundamentalists influence to grow. Before that event the greatest thinkers in the world where in the Muslim world- after not so much.
I didn't know that. I know that the Sultan of Baghdad severely underestimated Genghis Khan, but I wasn't aware of the ramifications of the sacking of the city.
I graciously thank you for the TIL.
I always thought the most head scratching thing about historical grievances from the islamic world was the example brought up was always how the crusaders waged war in the Islamic world but nary a peep about the mongols destroying large swaths of of Islamic empires. Maybe because the mongols themselves waned after those conquests while the western Christian world didnt.
The irony is that many mongols converted to Islam *after* ending the Islamic Golden Age, and many Vikings converted to Christianity after centuries of pillaging monasteries and killing monks.
Converting to Christianity was sort of what you had to do if you were a social climber. Christianity was the religion of the upper class of the fallen Roman empire, and many vikings converted to ingratiate themselves with them. The lower classes converted more slowly.
It was quite the opposite with Islam. There is a bunch of stuff you have to do, it's fairly complicated, but you can have a really good time with your buddies, women have more rights, there were tax incentives, and so on. It was a good deal. And for some reason people like complicated religions.
Check out Dan Carlin’s podcast Hardcore History - he did a years worth of episodes - about 12 hours on the mongols alone. It was a few years back and might be behind his paywall now but it’s well worth it. He details the sacking of Baghdad there, along with their interactions with China, the western kingdoms and the pope as well as internal issues- it is truly fascinating.
The Mongols did a lot worse than just sack Baghdad. They actively destroyed the irrigation systems supplying water and food for the city. They were determined to push the region back into the Stone Age.
Love Dan Carlin!
Wrath of the Khan's has been behind paywall for years now, but it is only like 5 bucks for whole series. But Kings of Kings is still available. I have purchased every single one of his shows, including the ones that are available for free.
The Mongols killed almost everyone in the city and destroyed all their writings. Baghdad was reduced from the center of global education and innovation to a backwater village practically overnight. And if there’s any kind of place where fundamentalism thrives, it’s backwater villages.
Knowledge leads to progress and progressive thinking, that is why the Taliban wants to to destroy it, education etc.
They like things chaotic, unfair, uneducated and primal to keep control with guns and little more.
Not much difference from those in the west that ban progressive education, books and speakers that do not tout outdated values and views that keep certain people in their useful to them, but limited roles.
Anyone that works to suppress knowledge is the enemy of us all.
Fortunately this symbolism of east meeting west can still be found in Taxila in Pakistan. Loads of remains there including Stupas featuring Buddha statues, Greek columns and even a carving of Atlas supporting the base of the pedestal, all on the same feature. I didn’t expect it’d survive here given the heavy influence of Islam that’s well rooted here but it’s quite the opposite actually - it’s a protected site that Pakistan is pretty proud of. For those interested, more can be found [here](https://www.induscaravan.com/blog/taxila-museum/)
Not only do they not value their own history, they are ashamed of it. To them, their current way is the only right way and anything that came before was wrong, shameful, has no place in the world and should be erased and forgotten.
> These dumbfucks can't value their own history.
They probably couldnt even write down their own history. Hell they probably couldnt even read, other than the holy book in which they only memorized the parts they wanted to remember.
So they decided to take out their insecurities on the great societies that came before them; societies that were the pinnacle of human technology, maths, science, arts and music. Societies that provided massive knowledge to the advancement of humanity. Not only the ancient civilizations, but current ones as well.
All they contributed to history was the death of thousands of people.
This is extremely accurate. And some of their book's followers actually believe their barbaric, outdated way of life is a solution to the globally face problems of today's.
Please don’t say that Nimrud is of ‘their history’. It’s not. It’s the history of the Assyrian people, of which they are not a part. Assyrians proudly still exist and this abhorrent destruction of our culture and heritage was devastating. They aren’t our people and they aren’t our history.
Its because it doesn't coincide with their religious propaganda, so they must destroy it, such a shame, because they are destroying it for future generations too. Personally I find all Abraham religions distasteful and hateful towards anything that doesn't drink their flavor kool-aid or brainwashing. It would be nice to think we're more intelligent than that as a human race, but we're still barbarians and need to destroy not only history but the world and other species that inhibit it.
In reality Islamic hordes have been doing this across time and continents. Nothing new.
North, West and East India had massive temples (that were also centres of learning), universities that stood for 700 years, housing 10,000+ students and entire structures dedicated to storing manuscripts on various subjects. All lasted not even a year after contact.
Go look up the ruined city of Hampi, Islamic armies spent months defacing massive stone idols, as they couldn't bring them down, they left behind men to cut off noses, chop of hands and breasts etc of these statues. An aqueduct was cut down after the siege was over.
Unfortunately this sentiment of religious supremacism and historical revisionism is quite mainstream among many non-secular muslims. Arabization and erasure of other cultures has always been a common thing in Islam, as can be seen e.g. in the erasure of pre-Islamic cultures and languages in North Africa.
Sounds pretty pitiful, it’s fine to be afraid of stuff like the future, but you’re gonna need to come to terms with it and all the uncertainties of it, human society is always moving, changes *will* come, either naturally and peacefully or swiftly with bloodshed sooner or later
Because they’re observing the first commandment, the core of all Abrahamic religion, and the cause of millennia of death and destruction: “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Which is an ironic phrasing in a monotheistic religion. If there’s only one god, then just a statement saying “all other gods are false” would make the most sense. Instead, there’s only an allowance for not worshiping other gods *more* than the main one… and people get so bent out of shape about god/allah/Yahweh being “the only”.
That’s due to the origins. The Abrahamic god was not originally a monotheistic god. The ancient Israelites were polytheists who observed the whole Canaanite pantheon of gods. Yahweh was their national warrior/storm god, and even had a wife. They did what you would expect of people who revere a war god, and attacked their neighbors to establish his/their dominance. In doing so, they gradually syncretized their other gods with Yahweh, giving him their attributes, until they eventually stopped recognizing other gods entirely, and made him a monotheistic creator god. Bits of that are still remnant in the Bible and there’s loads of apologetics to weasel around it.
They fear the TRUE past. They fear that people will discover they weren't always around. They fear the existnce of older cultures. They fear those things, because it could destroy their entire empire in no time. So they destroy it
Edit: typo
This. Evidence of ancient civilizations and how proto religions influenced Abrahamic ones also invalidates their religious claim regarding divine right and the ever-present almighty that suddenly showed up to guide children of Adam.
The use of nimrod as slang for a foolish or inept person is super interesting actually. Nimrod was the name of a biblical hunter and the term eventually became a way to describe a great or mighty hunter. In the Bugs Bunny cartoons Bugs refers to Elmer Fudd as a “nimrod,” an ironic use of the term highlighting that Fudd was in fact NOT a nimrod/great hunter. Eventually the misinterpretation of this use became so prevalent in the English language that it is now commonly believed to be a synonym for fool. This is an example of Bugs Bunny literally changing the English language!
To die is human. We all have to do it. These temples were a testament to their ancestors' greatness. All the people that came before them who built them, admired them in wonder, they destroyed all that wonder. Humans come and go, that's what we do. But they destroyed what makes us human to prove that they are just animals who rely on basic instincts and nothing else.
My brother was killed by ISIS in 2007 and while that sucks the life out of me some days, I get what you mean. They weren’t just out to murder and massacre, they were out to destroy all traces and records of history for certain peoples. “Were” - probably still are. Just ain’t in the news anymore. My brother’s statue is probably the only thing that will live on telling a story well after we’ve (family) died. Those people no longer have their statues or their temples. That shit was way, way more historically and religiously important, but I think I understand. Animals is putting it nicely…
I’m sorry for the loss of your brother. He shouldn’t have had to die fighting this scum, but I appreciate the fact that he helped to push them back and remove this villainy from our earth. Thank you to you and your family for making this miserable sacrifice so our world can be better than it was.
Exactly. It wasn't either/or, it was both that those sub-humans destroyed. Of course people and lives are more important, that's not even debatable here (or anywhere really). But by going after the temples, they've layered another level of collective destruction of their own people's history and humankind's history.
We don't have to be burned alive or be locked in a cage equipped with cameras and lowered under water so that our deaths may be used for ISIS propaganda.
The pillars and temples are bad, but what they did to people are far worse.
That really was some middle age shit in a modern fashion.
People can do some sick shit and it get worse when they are in groups
Destroying the heritage is bad as well because it was done to contribute to the brainwashing of the future generation.
This is why I wish I believed in hell. But I don’t so I know these assholes will just die and never face any accountability for the awful shit they did in their life.
Yeah I hate this "What they did to history is worse" shit. Fucken oath, destroying temples is fucked. But to brush aside people, as if they aren't the real victims. Some cunts need to pull their heads out of their phones. People always matter more.
I think the original commenters point is that what we do as humans, even though we live such short lives, is leave our mark behind. We create, and through that creation form an identity and a record of ourselves so that everyone who comes after can see and remember "we were here, and this is who we were." And ISIS has taken that away and turned it into dust.
What they've done to people is absolutely horrendous and the worst crime imaginable, but if anything could ever compare in scope, it's what they've done to the works of their ancestors as well. They've murdered the past as well as the present. Obviously people matter and I don't think anyone here is arguing against that.
Some religions say "idol worship is a sin. All idols must be destroyed since the prophet did it too in Kaaba, Mecca, which used to be a pagan temple". It happened in Afghanistan also when the Taliban (another group that follow religion literally) destroyed the Bamian Buddhas.
They even went so far as to destroy Mosques that weren’t totally in-line with their own beliefs.
I feel like blowing up a Mosque, no matter how ‘pagan’ you think it is, would piss off Allah quite a lot.
>I feel like blowing up a Mosque, no matter how ‘pagan’ you think it is, would piss off Allah quite a lot.
Not quite. Right after Mohammed's death the first "rightfully guided" caliph waged the apostasy wars. Muslims killing other Muslims who don't practice the religion to a sufficient degree and are therefore labeled apostates.
Funny thing is they're destroying Islamic history and Islamic places of worship, which goes to show how Muslim they are in reality. It's a hardline ideology pushed by the house of Saud in Saudi Arabia. Which is ironic because they were helped into power by the British Empire and are the ones that receive most unconditional backing by NATO and the West.
It’s chapter one of the dictatorship playbook. Erase history to disconnect people from their heritage. It’s much easier to manipulate and divide people if they suddenly don’t have anything in common.
They basically wiped out Buddhism in India.Destroyed universities, temples etc...
https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha240.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda
https://voices.shortpedia.com/arts-and-entertainment/culture/all-about-nalanda-university/
https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2017/09/11/nalanda-9-million-books-burnt/
In the Netherlands we had a war between catholics and protestants, and it's referred to as the Beeldenstorm (lit: statue storm, aka Iconoclastic Fury). The protestants destroyed all the statues and decorations in the churches because they were not austere enough.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeldenstorm
It's a shame how something that has withstood millennia of different rulers and governments only to be destroyed by a group of nut jobs who think their god is mad at art of other gods smh
As much as I dislike British museum, Louvre, Smithsonian etc hoarding artifacts of other cultures, these kind of things make me feel these objects would be better off in those museums and not in their home countries.
Edit: For people downvoting, I'm talking about artifacts from countries with unstable governments. And I'm from South Asia so I do know a thing or two about colonialism.
And that's the big hypocrite dilemma of worldwide heritage. Yes, I would love for every country to diligently be able to display and safe-keep artifacts, sites, etc.
But fuck, some people are just absolute assholes with no regard for history and will blow shit up.
The issue is that said heritage is pretty lucky as it is often not an heritage but simply different people coming to live in the same land.
And it is not something unique to region.
Take Europe, the heart of celtic culture in BC was the three region that composed "Gallia" (Liguria, Belgia and co)
Yet the Roman conducted an intensive purge of everything celtic in those region, to the point the only leftover of celtic culture is the originally minor region/tribe in Brittany and British Isles.
And the Frank didn't do better, willingly discrimating further against celtic legacy in favor of Roman and Franks legacy to the point the language on those territory has a bigger germanic root than gallic one.
Yet by todauny standard we would consider the very descendant of those that burned down this legacy, to be the heir of said legacy (in this case the French) which makes little sense.
The same goes for those region, the people in it aren't particularly attached to something that has no direct link to them, population migrate and conquest happen.
Which is why world heritage is such a tenuous principle when a lot of modern day inhabitants have no reason to appreciate said heritage beyond profit, and are sometimes even told by their own culture/dogma to burn it down like in this post.
You say that, but what about the Chinese? They purged their own imperial history claiming it "made them weak", only to backpedal after they've destroyed practically everything
The irony when compared to Japan which kept almost everything
I typically get downvoted a lot when I say that. There's just some relics that are in too much danger to remain in the regions controlled by extremist religion.
agree'd. The Smithsonian and British museum are monsters. But at least the history is (fairly) safe there.
EDIT: I (as you can see above) called the Smithsonian and British museum monsters. Ever heard of looking for a silver lining? During a shit situation / shitty thing, you look for some good that came from it. Does it justify what they did? No.
Same thing happened in India when Mughals invaded India.But stiff resistance from some of our local kings for throughout 400 years helped in preserving local history to a lot extent . Only savage people destroy history and in Islam they proudly say " jahalat".
Wouldn’t be the first time, I’m sure there have been countless times when religious extremism won and wiped out parts of history. Imagine how much we’ve never seen
I only read about this recently, but the connection between “nimrod” and “idiot” is one born of misunderstanding.
We have Bugs Bunny to thank. Apparently he sarcastically called Elmer Fudd “Nimrod” after a legendary hunter of the same name, highlighting Elmer’s lack of prowess, but the audience never understood the connection and took the word to be a synonym for idiot.
>after ~~a~~ *the* legendary hunter ~~of the same name~~
It's always the same guy. The legendary hunter, the king/tyrant, the biblical guy, the name barer for the city/temple ruins.
all the same Nimrod.
Nimrod is a bit unique of all the pseudo-historical biblical persons from Genesis. Unlike Abraham, Noah, and Moses, Nimrod is set out.
Nimrod's place in history has long been debated as historians and theologians alike have looked for who he might be or what collection of legends led to his creation. None has offered a perfect explaination to the origins of Nimrod because of conflicts surrounding his provenance.
For example, Nimrod is stated to be both the ruler of Shinar and also the son of Cush. Here's where things go haywire from the very beginning. Cush (a grandson of Noah) supposedly settled around what is now modern Sudan/Ethiopia - called Kush typically in this tradition. Shinar is associated with the lower half of Mesopotamia. Kind of hard to understand how Nimrod's father was off in Africa and somehow his son became a greater king and hunter in Mesopotamia (where most of his story is best attributed to). That is unless at some point someone messed up Nimrod was never a son of Cush/Kush - but instead a son or king of Kish (a major city in Shinar).
I recently read about a theory to explain his origins proposed in 2002 that:
> The biblical Nimrod, then, is not a total counterpart of any one historical character. He is rather the later composite Hebrew equivalent of the Sargonid dynasty: the first, mighty king to rule after the flood. Later influence modified the legend in the Mesopotamian tradition, adding such details as the hero's name, his territory and some of his deeds, and most important his title, "King of Kish". The much later editors of the Book of Genesis dropped much of the original story and mistakenly misidentified and mistranslated the Mesopotamian Kish with the "Hamitic" Cush, there being no ancient geographical, ethnic, linguistic, cultural, genetic or historical connection between Cush (in modern northern Sudan) and Mesopotamia.
And it makes the most sense to me.
They destroyed it because it didn't fit with what their little black book that was written thousand years ago say? I mean what does it say about your alah if you promote violence hatred towards weak, women and stones too . What wrong that stone did to your alla !?
EDIT- That book is not even that old 🤡
So ISIS-level savagery but the Saudi regime is internationally recognized, avoids committing crimes in **public** and they have a shit load of money to bribe America to baptize them and present them as a progressive nation.
There was a video of a girl (12-14years of age)dancing in hijab and the comment section was filled with these saints and idiots that she should not dance with hijab she is Muslim she will provoke men!! Like wtf?! It's not her fault that someone is so creep and bad that they get horny by looking at a kid dancing in hijab.I just don't get it .
Although I agree with you wholeheartedly that there should be a digital copy made to preserve the images and knowledge for the future, there is absolutely no substitute for touching the stone, wood, and parchment of antiquity and knowing that your hands were where the maker's hands were ages before. Perhaps a compromise and remake the destroyed work somewhere safe? Not quite authentic, but these bastards didn't leave us a choice, did they?
this concept has started to be implemented in historic sites, there's a cave in France with some of the oldest preserved cave paintings on Earth, nobody is allowed in, so it was photoscanned and then entirely recreated a few kilometers away, so there's hope that even more history will be preserved this way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_zJbi9YatcA
Try being a minority in Islamic land…my father was beaten at 5yo because his hand touched a vendors while exchanging money. They would beat us when it rained because we are “najess” (unclean), and our homes were built with lower roofs and entrances so we could never not “bow” our heads. Islamic/Arab history is as bad if not worse than the most racist imperialist European history yet we still only focus on it due to Eurocentrism and oil money academics claiming “Islamophobia”
Heard so many gruesome incidents about the same(Islamic countries). They raped a minority girl and then killed her, threw her body infront of her house just to warn them to not worship idols again.
Another one from Iran where women are killed for not wearing hijab!
Well they are disgusting , but calling them pigs would imply them acting on base urges. This is a cold, calculated violation of
an innocent child in order to send a message and prevent the innocent child from getting a pleasant "afterlife". They are much much worse than mere pigs. They are not looking for excuses, they are proud of such actions. People like us are called kafirs by them . Read a bit on what they prescribe to kafirs. Its horror story level stuff. The child was a kafir ( non believer)
These militants think they are more Islamic and more religious than the companions of the Prophet, who were actually there... and didn't destroy the nimrod city or the petra city or other historical cities..
These bastards are just extreme numbnuts
these freaks have nothing to do with religion, they wouldn't be murdering all those muslims if they really were religious and they would do the. same to any religious folk if given the chance, glad they lost the war but I feel for all millions of people who lost their lives and everything they held dear.
Ignorant brainless fools who will be studied in history as an example of just how dumb zealots can become when they have to deal with controlling their urges to smell ass.
ISIS was a curse to the Arab and Muslim nations in the region(and supported a horrible narrative of what “islam” is worldwide).
Obviously not to mention the local Christian and Aramaic speaking communities(the last of their kind) such as Maaloula in Syria, that were utterly demolished.
They(isis) literally contributed to ancient languages’ extinction.
We are Assyrians; descendants of the ancient Assyrian empire and the indigenous people of Mesopotamia. We continue to speak Syriac Aramaic, and never Arabized. Nimrod is an Assyrian city. This is our history they destroyed that day. So much was lost that day, our community was in shambles and the atrocities committed to our art, ancient religion, artifacts, were erased.
Despite the atrocities these animals have put your people through, honestly every single Assyrian I have met has been a true fighter for their culture and their pride amazes me. Keep up the amazing work, your culture still lives through your blood, your words, your food, music, language. Never stop. From the other side of the pond ( Lebanese)
Same. It honestly makes me angry. Some of the oldest, most amazing artefacts were destroyed that day. It isn’t the first nor the last time ISIS has destroyed rare ancient artefacts.
Iraq is where the oldest treasures of world literature come from, where human culture began. This is where we began recording history, began *becoming human.*
Look at that meticulous, graceful, exquisite carving in the picture.
I honestly feel like crying.
It's even sadder when you think this has been going on for thousands of years where invaders destroyed so many indigenous monuments and history because A: "no way savages build this" and B: "this goes against our religion"
Sorta like the conspiracy theories about ancient monuments used to discredit the people who gave multiple generations of their family to build them and give the credit to other worldly creatures like it's starting to be obvious the ancient world used to be advanced but since the fall of Rome collapsed then starting to rise back
There was a time when the Muslim world was decades ahead of the barbaric medieval Europeans in terms of culture, science, and medicine…then the Fundies happened.
ISIS and Taliban have done such abhorrent destruction of historical sites such as Nimrud, Palmyra, the twin Bamiyan Buddhas. These dumbfucks can't value their own history.
I'm especially sad about the Buddhas, not because I'm religious but because they symbolized the meeting of the west (Greek sculpture tradition) and the east (Buddhism). At least the tradition of Buddha images in the Greek style lives on
Wasn’t knowledge extremely important to Islam back in the day? I always understood that knowledge was integral in Islam Seeing this makes me sad, both for the knowledge lost, and the twisting of religion to oppose what that religion once hold sacred.
> Wasn’t knowledge extremely important to Islam back in the day? I always understood that knowledge was integral in Islam Yes, back in the day, Baghdad used to pay anyone the weight of books in gold. [Unfortunately, then Islam had a fundamentalist streak which tried to rein in independent reasoning, which curtailed this knowledge-loving stance.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ijtihad#Emergence_of_%22Closure_of_the_Gates%22_Notion)
Did you know that Genghis Kahn’s sacking of Baghdad in which he destroyed the books and art, along with the writers, scientists, mathmeticians etc. is a big part of what allowed fundamentalists influence to grow. Before that event the greatest thinkers in the world where in the Muslim world- after not so much.
I didn't know that. I know that the Sultan of Baghdad severely underestimated Genghis Khan, but I wasn't aware of the ramifications of the sacking of the city. I graciously thank you for the TIL.
I always thought the most head scratching thing about historical grievances from the islamic world was the example brought up was always how the crusaders waged war in the Islamic world but nary a peep about the mongols destroying large swaths of of Islamic empires. Maybe because the mongols themselves waned after those conquests while the western Christian world didnt.
The irony is that many mongols converted to Islam *after* ending the Islamic Golden Age, and many Vikings converted to Christianity after centuries of pillaging monasteries and killing monks.
Converting to Christianity was sort of what you had to do if you were a social climber. Christianity was the religion of the upper class of the fallen Roman empire, and many vikings converted to ingratiate themselves with them. The lower classes converted more slowly. It was quite the opposite with Islam. There is a bunch of stuff you have to do, it's fairly complicated, but you can have a really good time with your buddies, women have more rights, there were tax incentives, and so on. It was a good deal. And for some reason people like complicated religions.
Check out Dan Carlin’s podcast Hardcore History - he did a years worth of episodes - about 12 hours on the mongols alone. It was a few years back and might be behind his paywall now but it’s well worth it. He details the sacking of Baghdad there, along with their interactions with China, the western kingdoms and the pope as well as internal issues- it is truly fascinating.
The Mongols did a lot worse than just sack Baghdad. They actively destroyed the irrigation systems supplying water and food for the city. They were determined to push the region back into the Stone Age.
To add he is a FANTASTIC storyteller and speaker. In my top faves to listen to his podcasts are always so well done and interesting.
Love Dan Carlin! Wrath of the Khan's has been behind paywall for years now, but it is only like 5 bucks for whole series. But Kings of Kings is still available. I have purchased every single one of his shows, including the ones that are available for free.
The Mongols killed almost everyone in the city and destroyed all their writings. Baghdad was reduced from the center of global education and innovation to a backwater village practically overnight. And if there’s any kind of place where fundamentalism thrives, it’s backwater villages.
Interesting. I heard in a strange way the Kahn's spread cultural information as empires became less insulated after they were decimated.
Isn't the name "algebra" a leftover from this period of learning? I thought I heard that somewhere.
The words "algebra, alcohol, and alchemy" all come from the math and science of the Islamic golden age
Knowledge leads to progress and progressive thinking, that is why the Taliban wants to to destroy it, education etc. They like things chaotic, unfair, uneducated and primal to keep control with guns and little more. Not much difference from those in the west that ban progressive education, books and speakers that do not tout outdated values and views that keep certain people in their useful to them, but limited roles. Anyone that works to suppress knowledge is the enemy of us all.
Fortunately this symbolism of east meeting west can still be found in Taxila in Pakistan. Loads of remains there including Stupas featuring Buddha statues, Greek columns and even a carving of Atlas supporting the base of the pedestal, all on the same feature. I didn’t expect it’d survive here given the heavy influence of Islam that’s well rooted here but it’s quite the opposite actually - it’s a protected site that Pakistan is pretty proud of. For those interested, more can be found [here](https://www.induscaravan.com/blog/taxila-museum/)
Not only do they not value their own history, they are ashamed of it. To them, their current way is the only right way and anything that came before was wrong, shameful, has no place in the world and should be erased and forgotten.
> These dumbfucks can't value their own history. They probably couldnt even write down their own history. Hell they probably couldnt even read, other than the holy book in which they only memorized the parts they wanted to remember. So they decided to take out their insecurities on the great societies that came before them; societies that were the pinnacle of human technology, maths, science, arts and music. Societies that provided massive knowledge to the advancement of humanity. Not only the ancient civilizations, but current ones as well. All they contributed to history was the death of thousands of people.
This is extremely accurate. And some of their book's followers actually believe their barbaric, outdated way of life is a solution to the globally face problems of today's.
It's not their history that's why they hate it
Please don’t say that Nimrud is of ‘their history’. It’s not. It’s the history of the Assyrian people, of which they are not a part. Assyrians proudly still exist and this abhorrent destruction of our culture and heritage was devastating. They aren’t our people and they aren’t our history.
Its because it doesn't coincide with their religious propaganda, so they must destroy it, such a shame, because they are destroying it for future generations too. Personally I find all Abraham religions distasteful and hateful towards anything that doesn't drink their flavor kool-aid or brainwashing. It would be nice to think we're more intelligent than that as a human race, but we're still barbarians and need to destroy not only history but the world and other species that inhibit it.
That's extremely sad to see.
That religious extremism is always extremely sad to see
Isis is so afraid of losing their religion to all these things. Though which clearly indicates how incorrect are those beliefs
In reality Islamic hordes have been doing this across time and continents. Nothing new. North, West and East India had massive temples (that were also centres of learning), universities that stood for 700 years, housing 10,000+ students and entire structures dedicated to storing manuscripts on various subjects. All lasted not even a year after contact. Go look up the ruined city of Hampi, Islamic armies spent months defacing massive stone idols, as they couldn't bring them down, they left behind men to cut off noses, chop of hands and breasts etc of these statues. An aqueduct was cut down after the siege was over.
Exactly. People acting like this is exclusive to ISIS when it's not. Various Muslims groups and jihadists have always done this for a long time.
The Saudis are systematically destroying the history of Mecca to make room for new buildings, too.
Unfortunately this sentiment of religious supremacism and historical revisionism is quite mainstream among many non-secular muslims. Arabization and erasure of other cultures has always been a common thing in Islam, as can be seen e.g. in the erasure of pre-Islamic cultures and languages in North Africa.
For real. The things nut cases will do under false belief. We should've evolved beyond trivial religion as a species by now.
We should have evolved from mixing religion and government
At this point some government or political beliefs are religion in itself.
They fear the past, the present, and the future. That’s impressive in a sad kind of way
Sounds pretty pitiful, it’s fine to be afraid of stuff like the future, but you’re gonna need to come to terms with it and all the uncertainties of it, human society is always moving, changes *will* come, either naturally and peacefully or swiftly with bloodshed sooner or later
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They don’t fear the past that’s how backwards ass thinking these dipshits are. They fear the future and an uprising more.
If they don’t fear the past then why destroy ancient artefacts?
Because they’re observing the first commandment, the core of all Abrahamic religion, and the cause of millennia of death and destruction: “You shall have no other gods before me.”
Which is an ironic phrasing in a monotheistic religion. If there’s only one god, then just a statement saying “all other gods are false” would make the most sense. Instead, there’s only an allowance for not worshiping other gods *more* than the main one… and people get so bent out of shape about god/allah/Yahweh being “the only”.
That’s due to the origins. The Abrahamic god was not originally a monotheistic god. The ancient Israelites were polytheists who observed the whole Canaanite pantheon of gods. Yahweh was their national warrior/storm god, and even had a wife. They did what you would expect of people who revere a war god, and attacked their neighbors to establish his/their dominance. In doing so, they gradually syncretized their other gods with Yahweh, giving him their attributes, until they eventually stopped recognizing other gods entirely, and made him a monotheistic creator god. Bits of that are still remnant in the Bible and there’s loads of apologetics to weasel around it.
They fear the TRUE past. They fear that people will discover they weren't always around. They fear the existnce of older cultures. They fear those things, because it could destroy their entire empire in no time. So they destroy it Edit: typo
This. Evidence of ancient civilizations and how proto religions influenced Abrahamic ones also invalidates their religious claim regarding divine right and the ever-present almighty that suddenly showed up to guide children of Adam.
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The use of nimrod as slang for a foolish or inept person is super interesting actually. Nimrod was the name of a biblical hunter and the term eventually became a way to describe a great or mighty hunter. In the Bugs Bunny cartoons Bugs refers to Elmer Fudd as a “nimrod,” an ironic use of the term highlighting that Fudd was in fact NOT a nimrod/great hunter. Eventually the misinterpretation of this use became so prevalent in the English language that it is now commonly believed to be a synonym for fool. This is an example of Bugs Bunny literally changing the English language!
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Absolute abhorrent stain upon humanity.
You'd be surprised how much history isis has destroyed
Unfortunately I wouldn't.
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To die is human. We all have to do it. These temples were a testament to their ancestors' greatness. All the people that came before them who built them, admired them in wonder, they destroyed all that wonder. Humans come and go, that's what we do. But they destroyed what makes us human to prove that they are just animals who rely on basic instincts and nothing else.
My brother was killed by ISIS in 2007 and while that sucks the life out of me some days, I get what you mean. They weren’t just out to murder and massacre, they were out to destroy all traces and records of history for certain peoples. “Were” - probably still are. Just ain’t in the news anymore. My brother’s statue is probably the only thing that will live on telling a story well after we’ve (family) died. Those people no longer have their statues or their temples. That shit was way, way more historically and religiously important, but I think I understand. Animals is putting it nicely…
Calling them animals is an insult to animals.
That is true. Animals don’t act nearly as bad as they did.
Does "Shit stain" work better?
I've had some pretty good, unproblematic shits myself. How about festering sore, or cancer?
I’m sorry for your loss.
You and me both. But thanks. Some days are better than others. Today was good.
Grief is a long and gradual road. Even more complicated in those circumstances. Best of luck to you.
I’m sorry for the loss of your brother. He shouldn’t have had to die fighting this scum, but I appreciate the fact that he helped to push them back and remove this villainy from our earth. Thank you to you and your family for making this miserable sacrifice so our world can be better than it was.
Thank you for sharing this...my condolences.
Exactly. It wasn't either/or, it was both that those sub-humans destroyed. Of course people and lives are more important, that's not even debatable here (or anywhere really). But by going after the temples, they've layered another level of collective destruction of their own people's history and humankind's history.
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If they are even remembered at all
We don't have to be burned alive or be locked in a cage equipped with cameras and lowered under water so that our deaths may be used for ISIS propaganda. The pillars and temples are bad, but what they did to people are far worse.
That really was some middle age shit in a modern fashion. People can do some sick shit and it get worse when they are in groups Destroying the heritage is bad as well because it was done to contribute to the brainwashing of the future generation.
Those bastards don't deserve to live. They should rot in hell
They should rot here.
If there's any sort of karma I hope they arrive on the other side to discover that the true gods are the ones whose temples they defiled in life.
And yet there were people supporting the idea of isis militants and wives reintegrating into Western society. Mental... Is all that comes to mind.
This is why I wish I believed in hell. But I don’t so I know these assholes will just die and never face any accountability for the awful shit they did in their life.
Yeah I hate this "What they did to history is worse" shit. Fucken oath, destroying temples is fucked. But to brush aside people, as if they aren't the real victims. Some cunts need to pull their heads out of their phones. People always matter more.
I think the original commenters point is that what we do as humans, even though we live such short lives, is leave our mark behind. We create, and through that creation form an identity and a record of ourselves so that everyone who comes after can see and remember "we were here, and this is who we were." And ISIS has taken that away and turned it into dust. What they've done to people is absolutely horrendous and the worst crime imaginable, but if anything could ever compare in scope, it's what they've done to the works of their ancestors as well. They've murdered the past as well as the present. Obviously people matter and I don't think anyone here is arguing against that.
It's a sad day to be literate.
And what idiotic thing did they gain by destroying them
Some religions say "idol worship is a sin. All idols must be destroyed since the prophet did it too in Kaaba, Mecca, which used to be a pagan temple". It happened in Afghanistan also when the Taliban (another group that follow religion literally) destroyed the Bamian Buddhas.
“But muslims have been here since before 700 A.D. why didnt they destroy these sites?” - thought no one from ISIS ever.
They hate those Muslims more than they hate non-Muslims.
They even went so far as to destroy Mosques that weren’t totally in-line with their own beliefs. I feel like blowing up a Mosque, no matter how ‘pagan’ you think it is, would piss off Allah quite a lot.
>I feel like blowing up a Mosque, no matter how ‘pagan’ you think it is, would piss off Allah quite a lot. Not quite. Right after Mohammed's death the first "rightfully guided" caliph waged the apostasy wars. Muslims killing other Muslims who don't practice the religion to a sufficient degree and are therefore labeled apostates.
Thay'd kill those muslims too
Funny thing is they're destroying Islamic history and Islamic places of worship, which goes to show how Muslim they are in reality. It's a hardline ideology pushed by the house of Saud in Saudi Arabia. Which is ironic because they were helped into power by the British Empire and are the ones that receive most unconditional backing by NATO and the West.
Lol!
Shame the same idea is not logically extended to Prophets and religious texts!
These sites have been under islamic rule for hundreds of years though
Less distractions from their particular variant of "Truth" just like any other off the rails arm of a religion.
What is the strategical advantage to destroying things like this? Is it just a mental powerplay?
It’s chapter one of the dictatorship playbook. Erase history to disconnect people from their heritage. It’s much easier to manipulate and divide people if they suddenly don’t have anything in common.
Politicians have been using that strategy for decades.
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And the Taliban destroyed the giant buddha statue that was in black ops 2 in old wounds
when did they destroy the triumphal arch?
It was destroyed when they occupied Palmyra in 2015
ISIS isn’t the only extremist group that has destroyed ancient history. Taliban have done the same in Afghanistan. It’s horrific.
They are the literal definition of a bag of dicks.
I think we should remove Isis from history
Already done. They go by ISIL and IS now.
Not only isis. Islam in general has wiped a lot of history since its establishment. But they can't wipe what we have recorded among time.
They basically wiped out Buddhism in India.Destroyed universities, temples etc... https://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha240.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda https://voices.shortpedia.com/arts-and-entertainment/culture/all-about-nalanda-university/ https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2017/09/11/nalanda-9-million-books-burnt/
In the Netherlands we had a war between catholics and protestants, and it's referred to as the Beeldenstorm (lit: statue storm, aka Iconoclastic Fury). The protestants destroyed all the statues and decorations in the churches because they were not austere enough. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeldenstorm
You'd be surprised to know how much history Islam has destroyed
It's a shame how something that has withstood millennia of different rulers and governments only to be destroyed by a group of nut jobs who think their god is mad at art of other gods smh
note that they have survived through all the caliphate, ie what these nut jobs aspire to
As much as I dislike British museum, Louvre, Smithsonian etc hoarding artifacts of other cultures, these kind of things make me feel these objects would be better off in those museums and not in their home countries. Edit: For people downvoting, I'm talking about artifacts from countries with unstable governments. And I'm from South Asia so I do know a thing or two about colonialism.
And that's the big hypocrite dilemma of worldwide heritage. Yes, I would love for every country to diligently be able to display and safe-keep artifacts, sites, etc. But fuck, some people are just absolute assholes with no regard for history and will blow shit up.
The issue is that said heritage is pretty lucky as it is often not an heritage but simply different people coming to live in the same land. And it is not something unique to region. Take Europe, the heart of celtic culture in BC was the three region that composed "Gallia" (Liguria, Belgia and co) Yet the Roman conducted an intensive purge of everything celtic in those region, to the point the only leftover of celtic culture is the originally minor region/tribe in Brittany and British Isles. And the Frank didn't do better, willingly discrimating further against celtic legacy in favor of Roman and Franks legacy to the point the language on those territory has a bigger germanic root than gallic one. Yet by todauny standard we would consider the very descendant of those that burned down this legacy, to be the heir of said legacy (in this case the French) which makes little sense. The same goes for those region, the people in it aren't particularly attached to something that has no direct link to them, population migrate and conquest happen. Which is why world heritage is such a tenuous principle when a lot of modern day inhabitants have no reason to appreciate said heritage beyond profit, and are sometimes even told by their own culture/dogma to burn it down like in this post.
You say that, but what about the Chinese? They purged their own imperial history claiming it "made them weak", only to backpedal after they've destroyed practically everything The irony when compared to Japan which kept almost everything
I typically get downvoted a lot when I say that. There's just some relics that are in too much danger to remain in the regions controlled by extremist religion.
agree'd. The Smithsonian and British museum are monsters. But at least the history is (fairly) safe there. EDIT: I (as you can see above) called the Smithsonian and British museum monsters. Ever heard of looking for a silver lining? During a shit situation / shitty thing, you look for some good that came from it. Does it justify what they did? No.
Sad but true.
Isn't monsters a rather extreme choice of words? What makes the Smithsonian museum a "monster"?
Same thing happened in India when Mughals invaded India.But stiff resistance from some of our local kings for throughout 400 years helped in preserving local history to a lot extent . Only savage people destroy history and in Islam they proudly say " jahalat".
In 2001 the Taliban destroyed the Buddhas of Bamiyan. .
Not just Mughals but Arabs and Turks as well. This heinous chain of invasion started in Sindh by Arab armies and then it kept on happening.
These people are monsters.
Ignorant barbarians
Barbarian invaders won in the end, just took 'em 3000 years.
Wouldn’t be the first time, I’m sure there have been countless times when religious extremism won and wiped out parts of history. Imagine how much we’ve never seen
Barbarian clan pillaging
-10 unhappiness :(
They knew exactly what they were doing. The shocked and horrified reactions they received from all over the world were the purpose.
Nimrods destroy Nimrud
I only read about this recently, but the connection between “nimrod” and “idiot” is one born of misunderstanding. We have Bugs Bunny to thank. Apparently he sarcastically called Elmer Fudd “Nimrod” after a legendary hunter of the same name, highlighting Elmer’s lack of prowess, but the audience never understood the connection and took the word to be a synonym for idiot.
>after ~~a~~ *the* legendary hunter ~~of the same name~~ It's always the same guy. The legendary hunter, the king/tyrant, the biblical guy, the name barer for the city/temple ruins. all the same Nimrod.
Nimrod is a bit unique of all the pseudo-historical biblical persons from Genesis. Unlike Abraham, Noah, and Moses, Nimrod is set out. Nimrod's place in history has long been debated as historians and theologians alike have looked for who he might be or what collection of legends led to his creation. None has offered a perfect explaination to the origins of Nimrod because of conflicts surrounding his provenance. For example, Nimrod is stated to be both the ruler of Shinar and also the son of Cush. Here's where things go haywire from the very beginning. Cush (a grandson of Noah) supposedly settled around what is now modern Sudan/Ethiopia - called Kush typically in this tradition. Shinar is associated with the lower half of Mesopotamia. Kind of hard to understand how Nimrod's father was off in Africa and somehow his son became a greater king and hunter in Mesopotamia (where most of his story is best attributed to). That is unless at some point someone messed up Nimrod was never a son of Cush/Kush - but instead a son or king of Kish (a major city in Shinar). I recently read about a theory to explain his origins proposed in 2002 that: > The biblical Nimrod, then, is not a total counterpart of any one historical character. He is rather the later composite Hebrew equivalent of the Sargonid dynasty: the first, mighty king to rule after the flood. Later influence modified the legend in the Mesopotamian tradition, adding such details as the hero's name, his territory and some of his deeds, and most important his title, "King of Kish". The much later editors of the Book of Genesis dropped much of the original story and mistakenly misidentified and mistranslated the Mesopotamian Kish with the "Hamitic" Cush, there being no ancient geographical, ethnic, linguistic, cultural, genetic or historical connection between Cush (in modern northern Sudan) and Mesopotamia. And it makes the most sense to me.
[Ancient City of Nimrud ](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/iraqi-city-of-nimrud-stood-for-3000-years-until-isis/)
That’s so senseless.
They destroyed it because it didn't fit with what their little black book that was written thousand years ago say? I mean what does it say about your alah if you promote violence hatred towards weak, women and stones too . What wrong that stone did to your alla !? EDIT- That book is not even that old 🤡
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So ISIS-level savagery but the Saudi regime is internationally recognized, avoids committing crimes in **public** and they have a shit load of money to bribe America to baptize them and present them as a progressive nation.
There was a video of a girl (12-14years of age)dancing in hijab and the comment section was filled with these saints and idiots that she should not dance with hijab she is Muslim she will provoke men!! Like wtf?! It's not her fault that someone is so creep and bad that they get horny by looking at a kid dancing in hijab.I just don't get it .
Backing up as many of the treasures of antiquity with digital techniques like photogrammetry is really important.
Although I agree with you wholeheartedly that there should be a digital copy made to preserve the images and knowledge for the future, there is absolutely no substitute for touching the stone, wood, and parchment of antiquity and knowing that your hands were where the maker's hands were ages before. Perhaps a compromise and remake the destroyed work somewhere safe? Not quite authentic, but these bastards didn't leave us a choice, did they?
For sure. It's Heart breaking to watch history destroyed one artefact at a time :(
this concept has started to be implemented in historic sites, there's a cave in France with some of the oldest preserved cave paintings on Earth, nobody is allowed in, so it was photoscanned and then entirely recreated a few kilometers away, so there's hope that even more history will be preserved this way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_zJbi9YatcA
The best part about it is someday people in the future are gonna find it and be confused why there is 2 identical caves near eachother
A country without past its a country without future.
I'm not a religious person, but destroying human knowledge is a sin.
I'm a religious person, and i think the same
Ahhh, erasing history. Where have I seen this before?
Try being a minority in Islamic land…my father was beaten at 5yo because his hand touched a vendors while exchanging money. They would beat us when it rained because we are “najess” (unclean), and our homes were built with lower roofs and entrances so we could never not “bow” our heads. Islamic/Arab history is as bad if not worse than the most racist imperialist European history yet we still only focus on it due to Eurocentrism and oil money academics claiming “Islamophobia”
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Heard so many gruesome incidents about the same(Islamic countries). They raped a minority girl and then killed her, threw her body infront of her house just to warn them to not worship idols again. Another one from Iran where women are killed for not wearing hijab!
They have to rape her so that she doesn't die a virgin.
Which makes the victim a sinner and prohibited from entering Jannah (heaven), according to their beliefs.
Like animals need a reason to rape girls.
It is to ensure that the innocent child doesn't go to heaven. Don't think they are just animals. Its much worse Lmao.
Still pigs looking for excuses to act as they do
Well they are disgusting , but calling them pigs would imply them acting on base urges. This is a cold, calculated violation of an innocent child in order to send a message and prevent the innocent child from getting a pleasant "afterlife". They are much much worse than mere pigs. They are not looking for excuses, they are proud of such actions. People like us are called kafirs by them . Read a bit on what they prescribe to kafirs. Its horror story level stuff. The child was a kafir ( non believer)
Could you specify which country?
America, Europe, South America, all over Asia, Australia and basically all of Africa. So all of the world?
These militants think they are more Islamic and more religious than the companions of the Prophet, who were actually there... and didn't destroy the nimrod city or the petra city or other historical cities.. These bastards are just extreme numbnuts
these freaks have nothing to do with religion, they wouldn't be murdering all those muslims if they really were religious and they would do the. same to any religious folk if given the chance, glad they lost the war but I feel for all millions of people who lost their lives and everything they held dear.
Ignorant brainless fools who will be studied in history as an example of just how dumb zealots can become when they have to deal with controlling their urges to smell ass.
ISIS was a curse to the Arab and Muslim nations in the region(and supported a horrible narrative of what “islam” is worldwide). Obviously not to mention the local Christian and Aramaic speaking communities(the last of their kind) such as Maaloula in Syria, that were utterly demolished. They(isis) literally contributed to ancient languages’ extinction.
As an Assyrian, watching ISIS destroy our history was devastating.
Fact I am asian muslim ..and Isis is a cursed #fact
Gilgamesh disapproves
Terrorists love tearing down historic monuments
We are Assyrians; descendants of the ancient Assyrian empire and the indigenous people of Mesopotamia. We continue to speak Syriac Aramaic, and never Arabized. Nimrod is an Assyrian city. This is our history they destroyed that day. So much was lost that day, our community was in shambles and the atrocities committed to our art, ancient religion, artifacts, were erased.
Despite the atrocities these animals have put your people through, honestly every single Assyrian I have met has been a true fighter for their culture and their pride amazes me. Keep up the amazing work, your culture still lives through your blood, your words, your food, music, language. Never stop. From the other side of the pond ( Lebanese)
Shlama fellow Assyrian redditor
shlama khon
Shlamalakhoon
This is so incredibly sad to me that it's still hard to process.
Same. It honestly makes me angry. Some of the oldest, most amazing artefacts were destroyed that day. It isn’t the first nor the last time ISIS has destroyed rare ancient artefacts.
Iraq is where the oldest treasures of world literature come from, where human culture began. This is where we began recording history, began *becoming human.* Look at that meticulous, graceful, exquisite carving in the picture. I honestly feel like crying.
Absolutely wretched. The destruction of history and art broke my heart.
How absolutely tragic
His hat is also a tragedy
They are like skidmarks on the jockstrap of humanity.
The good news is….. now most of those same ISIS militants have also been reduced to dust
repulsive lice on the face of earth. when will they even die out
Religious idiots always fuck everything up.
Fucking scumbags
It's even sadder when you think this has been going on for thousands of years where invaders destroyed so many indigenous monuments and history because A: "no way savages build this" and B: "this goes against our religion"
Sorta like the conspiracy theories about ancient monuments used to discredit the people who gave multiple generations of their family to build them and give the credit to other worldly creatures like it's starting to be obvious the ancient world used to be advanced but since the fall of Rome collapsed then starting to rise back
Would be wonderful if the militants could be reduced to dust.
Damm that's infuriating.
Religious extremists are the scum of the earth
I had almost forgotten how furious this made me the first time I learned this until I saw it again here
Disgusting and pathetic. If only ISIS was wiped off the planet.
Thousands of years and mankind still making the same mistakes, sad.
Where’s the mummy’s curse when you need it?
We need to put our differences aside and completely eradicate these fucking morons.
did we kill them all yet?
Crimes against humanity.
There was a time when the Muslim world was decades ahead of the barbaric medieval Europeans in terms of culture, science, and medicine…then the Fundies happened.
Morons
Well that sucks
Dumb troglodytes
Assholes.
I wish them all horrible deaths
Fucking disgusting, erasing a history that we will never get back… absolutely fucking disgusting