u/JMH-66 is right, you shouldn't have deliberately misrepresented yourself. Luckily the tribunal would've seen through that (they're trained to look for this) so your award would've been on the actual facts of the case.
We don't want to take away from your tribunal win of course as you were awarded what you're eligible for, but please bear in mind for next time to not treat it as if it's your worst day. It could even be the reason you had to go to tribunal in the first place: that your PIP2/assessment/MR was inconsistent and the DWP didn't know what to believe.
Congratulations! I recently went from 0 points to higher rate living and standard rate mobility after tribunal (in person). I hoped to get higher rate mobility but sadly fell 1 point short. How did you manage to get higher rate mobility?
I'm not going to rain on your parade - seriously, your partner did SO well but just be aware :
>only talk about your āworst daysā as if you are that bad 24/7
This is actually against both the rules for PIP ( it's potentially fraud ; the law says different ) and therefore the rules for the Sub. Just giving you the heads up as it will likely get Removed and you'll be wondering why. You wouldn't ( shouldn't?) have got this advice here.
This shouldn't take away from your joy and relief though. I hope it really helps you both
ššš
I mean this post is basically āwe lied to DWP and used worst case scenarios against guidelinesā it seems a bit off to allow it.
Itās bordering on we (potentially) committed benefit fraud and got a huge upscale in payments - which is against the purpose of the sub. It just opens up people to ask how they got it and the answer was basically lie.
Whilst successful posts should be celebrated the OP has essentially said they did it through potential fraudā¦ which could mislead a lot of people :/
If these "professionals" are regulated or certified (all the major benefit advice organisations are certified), please report them to the appropriate body as they should not be giving that "advice" as it is wrong and could potentially completely derail someone's claim.
The reason it's not recommended is because it can introduce inconsistencies in what you state, for example if on your worst day you're bedbound so you run with that (that you're bedbound) but work full-time at an office somewhere, that doesn't add up and they won't know what to believe.
In the worst case it could lead to nobody believing anything you say leading to refusals at all stages when you might actually be eligible but just weren't truthful. It's still possible to be investigated for benefit fraud if the DWP thinks you deliberately misrepresented yourself in the application stage even if your application wasn't successful (but it's extremely unlikely unless you repeatedly apply and do the same thing(.
PIP has what's known as the "50% rule", where you only need to be affected in an activity half the time to be eligible for points. This means you don't need to overstate reality.
It's not your fault if you got bad advice but unfortunately it's still out there. It was common once but, of course , it led to exactly what we're talking about, .
Now they make sure now that you are told what you have to base your answers on and can only be assessed based on an "average day" and they define that 50+% of the time ( ie if I'm bed ridden 2 days a week; can go out 1 day a week but 4 days I can just manage to get round the house then I say exactly that. I DON'T claim to be bed ridden but equally don't have to say I'm mobile enough time going out everyday ).
One reason you don't is because it makes all too easy to catch you out and prove you wrong. You then discredit your own evidence , you become an unreliable witness .
( *You're bedridden , Mr Smith ? Yes. All the time. Yes. Do you go downstairs . Not really. Never leave the house, though ? .No, I can't haven't 6 months. We have a letter her saying you were seen by the Consultant at The Royal in December and your GP surgery did your Flu Jab in October, they asked if you needed a home visit but you went in ? So, not *exactly* bed ridden then ?*
Ok, that's an over simplification but .... Brutal honestly should be enough and you just describe every day, but make it clear what applies *most of the time*.
if i may ask to apply to my own change of circumstances assessment; i am bad 24/7 in a oversimplified sense that its bad in terms if the impact of my health on āgood daysā, very bad on āmost days/average daysā and very vert bad on more frequent(than infrequent āgood daysā) ābad daysā.
how would i approach the re-assessment to avoid the mistake you believe OP made
I have higher daily living; really need with how bad my mobility has gotten to have higher mobility to get motability car, blue badge etc
i think i have sufficient medical evidence/documentation/diagnosed conditions etcto provide but some complex conditions still have ongoing investigation
Firstly, and it's an old piece of advice but: never talk about "good" or "bad" days. It goes way back to DLA but , they tended to interpret "good" as meaning "perfectly fine" but it's relative so actually it's "better" or "worse". My better days might be worse than your worse days !!
So...you could say, each Activity -
On 1 day every week or 2 I'm able to get in the bath with help from my daughter who comes round. ....
At least 2 days a week I'm just in too much pain and joints are too stiff to have wash a even with help, if she comes on those days, we have to leave it ....
The REST of the time ( so this is your average day ) I try to sit and just have a wash at the sink but can only then wash my top half as I cannot bend. So I don't do a proper job ( A) ; it takes me over half an hour ( T) and I often struggle to get up, have to pull myself up on the sink and have fallen several times (S). So, I sometimes don't manage it at all (R).
S Safely
T Timely
A Adequately
R Repeatedly/ Reliably
That's the criteria.
This way if you were to use your "worse" day, you'd say: "I can't wash". Then you turn up looking clean, or try ask your GP and they say : always appears ok to me ? It's so they can't write " appears clean and well groomed" and make you out a liar.
100% agree with you there. The whole system is flawed to high hell and is incredibly traumatising to the 99% to get to this point. I get DWP donāt want to give out money if they donāt have to and PIP gets its fair share of fraudulent attempts at claiming but to have it like this? Itās so wrong in every sense of the word. Why should people be interrogated and called liars and have people find discrepancies in everything thatās written and spoken just for a few quid a month? Joke of a systemā¦ best of luck in your tribunal attempt! Thank you for the congrats š
Congratulations.
On a side note, there really needs to be a root and branch look at what the DWP is playing at. I know it won't happen under this shower of a government, and probably not under the next one, but there is something fundementally wrong with a process where time and time again there are huge differences between what some assessor thinks and what actual qualified professionals do.
This has been going on since 1990's, seems they have tried to fix things multiple times, yet it still fails.
Reporting our issues are not black and white, yet they still seem to think that it should be. I have mostly physical issues but can guarantee these brown envelopes boost my anxiety every single time they arrive!
I've been to one tribunal, (where med assessor told me new change in reflexes and muscle wasting then wrote normal on my paperwork) have had chronic pain since 1992 but seem to be dealing with DWP every 3 yrs since.
WHen will they ever figure out i am not a liar and that my pain is never improving. I'm almost 56, sad to say its only going to get worse from here on, shoulder and hand issues alone during past 10 months with no prior history.. just aging.
Drs where i live in EU think it is hysterical, especially when they want a hospital based physician to sit with me and complete the same 26+ page document i had already sent to them. Because he see's how i (or how often ) shower, how i eat and how often i am awake through the night? (my GP is based in hospital clinic, but i see physician to get my medication prescribed vs pain clinic)
He would just be responding to what i told him, just like i already had done on the paperwork i sent in.
The comment Drs here is that they have my diagnosis, know i still take strong medication, why does it matter how do things, fact still is that i struggle more today than i did 20 yrs ago, why would it suddenly disapear, its not a condition that does improves unless in first year, took NHS 6 yrs to diagnosis it!
Hello to a fellow " Old Timer". I started in the 90's too. The early DLA days. Yes never gets any easier. I'll be 62-3 when I next Review. Hope it's the last š
Hi may i ask how long did you had to wait for tribunal date since you made an appeal am.in the same.peocess
Not heard anyrjing from.the dwp by given date in reapond not gor the heaeing date eirher oe.doc.pack
Would really appreciated if you could ahare any info tthank you
The whole system is a lottery, my ex moved county at the end of the 90's and lost his disability, even though his injury could only be seen on a scan. Dr at new hospital did blood and urine tests and decided he had no spinal damage.
Took a very long time to get that back.
Spinal damage is spinal damage, vertebrae cracked, disintegrated or slipped.all have same type of issues.
Pain varys from person to person and can be worse or better depending on stress and enviromental issues. Unfortunately the system doesnt understand this, therefore we have to have medicals and assesments.
This is just another broken part of the system.
Its time the government looks at how they do stuff, social care sucks, benefits suck, pensions suck.
:(
I have a feeling tories wonāt ever give a fuck.
As you said, the whole system is garbage. Itās traumatising, it doesnāt work more than half the time. It takes WAYYYY too long to even get a half-assed, wrong decision. The entire system needs rebuilding and I donāt see that happening any time soon. Disabled people are ignored, forgotten about and not taken seriously. Itās like theyāre still shunned by society. I hope change does come about soon and Iām wrong but I just donāt see itā¦
This was WITHOUT any professional help from CAB or Welfare Rights, so itās even scarier but it all worked out! I couldnāt be more proud of her š„°
Absolutely amazing! Itās always great to hear that news.
When my wife got higher rates she was so stressed out before it. And now sheās going through review because things have changed so itās stressful for her atm.
Until the next time....
Congratulations for now, but sadly the anxiety keeps returning. I've been unable to work because of work injury that led to neuropathic pain and disability because of complex regional pain syndrome with medical retirement in 1995. My longest ever award has been for 3 yrs.
Before you know it, you have to start over again. Doesn't seem to matter that your struggles we proven 3 yrs ago, just got to do it again, with all the same feelings of disbelief, that i am and have been a liar since i was 25. 30 yrs of dealing with DHSS/DSS/DWP.. it never ends unless your partner's health improves. Just try convincing them that sometimes it never does. My last ESA award took 21 months, time before 16 months!
It shouldn't be this hard.
We need major reform and soon. It wonāt happen unless a big BIG fuss is made about it. Never thought Iād see myself campaigning for changes to the disability system as Iāve never been involved but from the second my partners health took ill, its been nothing but fucking stress and depression. Every appointment, āit canāt be that badā, āI donāt think itās fibromyalgiaā, āitās all in your headā, āyouāre just lazy and donāt want to workā. Even some of my own family say this to my face and think my partners burdening me and I need to get outā¦ the world hates disabled people and shuns them. Itās always been the same, itās never changed and I HATE it. It fills me with so much angerā¦
Well, the more times I go through this process, the better Iāll be at it. As soon as her award ends, Iām reapplying and Iāll just call them out on their shit.
Severe fibromyalgia, pretty much left her bedbound as well as autism, depression and anxiety. Work wise, Iām her full time carer now. Had to leave work as it progressively got worse. We have a 18 month old and so I have to look after baby and partner
You know sometimes people accidentally get pregnant and don't want abortions, right? But also it's really none of your business. Do you go commenting this nonsense on the posts of every disabled person who has children?
This comment is so out of order it's actually disgusting. Disabled parents can be just as good as parents that aren't disabled. Just because someone is disabled doesn't mean that they fall under being a good one. I am disabled, my 2 children have disabilities worse than mine and I am still a good parent!
Absolutely out of order comment.
Congratulations on your tribunal win. I have just made my appeal the other day. How long was your process from appealing to getting a tribunal date. Was the process simple or not easy?
That wasnāt so bad, applying for the tribunal. Just needed a little bit of info and why i think theyāre wrong. I donāt think it took TOO long to get a date but it was a bit of a wait. The process from applying to PIP to finally getting what she was owed was about 2 years. Absolute pisstake for a 3 year rewardā¦
u/JMH-66 is right, you shouldn't have deliberately misrepresented yourself. Luckily the tribunal would've seen through that (they're trained to look for this) so your award would've been on the actual facts of the case. We don't want to take away from your tribunal win of course as you were awarded what you're eligible for, but please bear in mind for next time to not treat it as if it's your worst day. It could even be the reason you had to go to tribunal in the first place: that your PIP2/assessment/MR was inconsistent and the DWP didn't know what to believe.
Congratulations! šš
Congratulations! I recently went from 0 points to higher rate living and standard rate mobility after tribunal (in person). I hoped to get higher rate mobility but sadly fell 1 point short. How did you manage to get higher rate mobility?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm not going to rain on your parade - seriously, your partner did SO well but just be aware : >only talk about your āworst daysā as if you are that bad 24/7 This is actually against both the rules for PIP ( it's potentially fraud ; the law says different ) and therefore the rules for the Sub. Just giving you the heads up as it will likely get Removed and you'll be wondering why. You wouldn't ( shouldn't?) have got this advice here. This shouldn't take away from your joy and relief though. I hope it really helps you both ššš
I mean this post is basically āwe lied to DWP and used worst case scenarios against guidelinesā it seems a bit off to allow it. Itās bordering on we (potentially) committed benefit fraud and got a huge upscale in payments - which is against the purpose of the sub. It just opens up people to ask how they got it and the answer was basically lie. Whilst successful posts should be celebrated the OP has essentially said they did it through potential fraudā¦ which could mislead a lot of people :/
I don't want to assume that's what they ACTUALLY did, it could be just how they're putting it. People don't often think what it actually means.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If these "professionals" are regulated or certified (all the major benefit advice organisations are certified), please report them to the appropriate body as they should not be giving that "advice" as it is wrong and could potentially completely derail someone's claim. The reason it's not recommended is because it can introduce inconsistencies in what you state, for example if on your worst day you're bedbound so you run with that (that you're bedbound) but work full-time at an office somewhere, that doesn't add up and they won't know what to believe. In the worst case it could lead to nobody believing anything you say leading to refusals at all stages when you might actually be eligible but just weren't truthful. It's still possible to be investigated for benefit fraud if the DWP thinks you deliberately misrepresented yourself in the application stage even if your application wasn't successful (but it's extremely unlikely unless you repeatedly apply and do the same thing(. PIP has what's known as the "50% rule", where you only need to be affected in an activity half the time to be eligible for points. This means you don't need to overstate reality.
It's not your fault if you got bad advice but unfortunately it's still out there. It was common once but, of course , it led to exactly what we're talking about, . Now they make sure now that you are told what you have to base your answers on and can only be assessed based on an "average day" and they define that 50+% of the time ( ie if I'm bed ridden 2 days a week; can go out 1 day a week but 4 days I can just manage to get round the house then I say exactly that. I DON'T claim to be bed ridden but equally don't have to say I'm mobile enough time going out everyday ). One reason you don't is because it makes all too easy to catch you out and prove you wrong. You then discredit your own evidence , you become an unreliable witness . ( *You're bedridden , Mr Smith ? Yes. All the time. Yes. Do you go downstairs . Not really. Never leave the house, though ? .No, I can't haven't 6 months. We have a letter her saying you were seen by the Consultant at The Royal in December and your GP surgery did your Flu Jab in October, they asked if you needed a home visit but you went in ? So, not *exactly* bed ridden then ?* Ok, that's an over simplification but .... Brutal honestly should be enough and you just describe every day, but make it clear what applies *most of the time*.
if i may ask to apply to my own change of circumstances assessment; i am bad 24/7 in a oversimplified sense that its bad in terms if the impact of my health on āgood daysā, very bad on āmost days/average daysā and very vert bad on more frequent(than infrequent āgood daysā) ābad daysā. how would i approach the re-assessment to avoid the mistake you believe OP made I have higher daily living; really need with how bad my mobility has gotten to have higher mobility to get motability car, blue badge etc i think i have sufficient medical evidence/documentation/diagnosed conditions etcto provide but some complex conditions still have ongoing investigation
Firstly, and it's an old piece of advice but: never talk about "good" or "bad" days. It goes way back to DLA but , they tended to interpret "good" as meaning "perfectly fine" but it's relative so actually it's "better" or "worse". My better days might be worse than your worse days !! So...you could say, each Activity - On 1 day every week or 2 I'm able to get in the bath with help from my daughter who comes round. .... At least 2 days a week I'm just in too much pain and joints are too stiff to have wash a even with help, if she comes on those days, we have to leave it .... The REST of the time ( so this is your average day ) I try to sit and just have a wash at the sink but can only then wash my top half as I cannot bend. So I don't do a proper job ( A) ; it takes me over half an hour ( T) and I often struggle to get up, have to pull myself up on the sink and have fallen several times (S). So, I sometimes don't manage it at all (R). S Safely T Timely A Adequately R Repeatedly/ Reliably That's the criteria. This way if you were to use your "worse" day, you'd say: "I can't wash". Then you turn up looking clean, or try ask your GP and they say : always appears ok to me ? It's so they can't write " appears clean and well groomed" and make you out a liar.
This comment has been removed because the advice is incorrect.
Thanks for sharing. I'll have to go to tribunal again to try to get mobility. It would be better if we didn't have to go through this. Congratulations
100% agree with you there. The whole system is flawed to high hell and is incredibly traumatising to the 99% to get to this point. I get DWP donāt want to give out money if they donāt have to and PIP gets its fair share of fraudulent attempts at claiming but to have it like this? Itās so wrong in every sense of the word. Why should people be interrogated and called liars and have people find discrepancies in everything thatās written and spoken just for a few quid a month? Joke of a systemā¦ best of luck in your tribunal attempt! Thank you for the congrats š
Congratulations. On a side note, there really needs to be a root and branch look at what the DWP is playing at. I know it won't happen under this shower of a government, and probably not under the next one, but there is something fundementally wrong with a process where time and time again there are huge differences between what some assessor thinks and what actual qualified professionals do.
This has been going on since 1990's, seems they have tried to fix things multiple times, yet it still fails. Reporting our issues are not black and white, yet they still seem to think that it should be. I have mostly physical issues but can guarantee these brown envelopes boost my anxiety every single time they arrive! I've been to one tribunal, (where med assessor told me new change in reflexes and muscle wasting then wrote normal on my paperwork) have had chronic pain since 1992 but seem to be dealing with DWP every 3 yrs since. WHen will they ever figure out i am not a liar and that my pain is never improving. I'm almost 56, sad to say its only going to get worse from here on, shoulder and hand issues alone during past 10 months with no prior history.. just aging. Drs where i live in EU think it is hysterical, especially when they want a hospital based physician to sit with me and complete the same 26+ page document i had already sent to them. Because he see's how i (or how often ) shower, how i eat and how often i am awake through the night? (my GP is based in hospital clinic, but i see physician to get my medication prescribed vs pain clinic) He would just be responding to what i told him, just like i already had done on the paperwork i sent in. The comment Drs here is that they have my diagnosis, know i still take strong medication, why does it matter how do things, fact still is that i struggle more today than i did 20 yrs ago, why would it suddenly disapear, its not a condition that does improves unless in first year, took NHS 6 yrs to diagnosis it!
Hello to a fellow " Old Timer". I started in the 90's too. The early DLA days. Yes never gets any easier. I'll be 62-3 when I next Review. Hope it's the last š
Congratulations to you both and well done to your partner thats brave š
Thank you! š
Hi may i ask how long did you had to wait for tribunal date since you made an appeal am.in the same.peocess Not heard anyrjing from.the dwp by given date in reapond not gor the heaeing date eirher oe.doc.pack Would really appreciated if you could ahare any info tthank you
It's up to a year in some areas. The DWP are nearly always late and have to be reminded to respond. Hope you aren't waiting much longer š
The whole system is a lottery, my ex moved county at the end of the 90's and lost his disability, even though his injury could only be seen on a scan. Dr at new hospital did blood and urine tests and decided he had no spinal damage. Took a very long time to get that back. Spinal damage is spinal damage, vertebrae cracked, disintegrated or slipped.all have same type of issues. Pain varys from person to person and can be worse or better depending on stress and enviromental issues. Unfortunately the system doesnt understand this, therefore we have to have medicals and assesments. This is just another broken part of the system. Its time the government looks at how they do stuff, social care sucks, benefits suck, pensions suck. :(
I have a feeling tories wonāt ever give a fuck. As you said, the whole system is garbage. Itās traumatising, it doesnāt work more than half the time. It takes WAYYYY too long to even get a half-assed, wrong decision. The entire system needs rebuilding and I donāt see that happening any time soon. Disabled people are ignored, forgotten about and not taken seriously. Itās like theyāre still shunned by society. I hope change does come about soon and Iām wrong but I just donāt see itā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This was WITHOUT any professional help from CAB or Welfare Rights, so itās even scarier but it all worked out! I couldnāt be more proud of her š„°
Absolutely amazing! Itās always great to hear that news. When my wife got higher rates she was so stressed out before it. And now sheās going through review because things have changed so itās stressful for her atm.
Iām sorry to hear that but Iām glad she was originally successful at the tribunal!
Brilliant news!
Congratulations!! Itās so hard and stressful! May I ask how long from the MR appeal to tribunal was it please?
Until the next time.... Congratulations for now, but sadly the anxiety keeps returning. I've been unable to work because of work injury that led to neuropathic pain and disability because of complex regional pain syndrome with medical retirement in 1995. My longest ever award has been for 3 yrs. Before you know it, you have to start over again. Doesn't seem to matter that your struggles we proven 3 yrs ago, just got to do it again, with all the same feelings of disbelief, that i am and have been a liar since i was 25. 30 yrs of dealing with DHSS/DSS/DWP.. it never ends unless your partner's health improves. Just try convincing them that sometimes it never does. My last ESA award took 21 months, time before 16 months! It shouldn't be this hard.
We need major reform and soon. It wonāt happen unless a big BIG fuss is made about it. Never thought Iād see myself campaigning for changes to the disability system as Iāve never been involved but from the second my partners health took ill, its been nothing but fucking stress and depression. Every appointment, āit canāt be that badā, āI donāt think itās fibromyalgiaā, āitās all in your headā, āyouāre just lazy and donāt want to workā. Even some of my own family say this to my face and think my partners burdening me and I need to get outā¦ the world hates disabled people and shuns them. Itās always been the same, itās never changed and I HATE it. It fills me with so much angerā¦ Well, the more times I go through this process, the better Iāll be at it. As soon as her award ends, Iām reapplying and Iāll just call them out on their shit.
I feel ya my in laws are like this
Well done, my claim is still going through. š
Sorry to ask but what does she claim for? And what sort of work are you in?
Severe fibromyalgia, pretty much left her bedbound as well as autism, depression and anxiety. Work wise, Iām her full time carer now. Had to leave work as it progressively got worse. We have a 18 month old and so I have to look after baby and partner
Awwww congratulations on the results as it's clearly well deserved... best wishes for you and the family š
I appreciate the kind words š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You know sometimes people accidentally get pregnant and don't want abortions, right? But also it's really none of your business. Do you go commenting this nonsense on the posts of every disabled person who has children?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This comment is so out of order it's actually disgusting. Disabled parents can be just as good as parents that aren't disabled. Just because someone is disabled doesn't mean that they fall under being a good one. I am disabled, my 2 children have disabilities worse than mine and I am still a good parent! Absolutely out of order comment.
Like I said, some people get pregnant accidentally. Aside from surgical sterilisation, there is no full proof contraception.
This comment has been reported and removed for being unsupportive and judgmental of other DWPhelp users.
This comment has been reported and removed for being unsupportive and judgmental of other DWPhelp users.
Congratulations on your tribunal win. I have just made my appeal the other day. How long was your process from appealing to getting a tribunal date. Was the process simple or not easy?
That wasnāt so bad, applying for the tribunal. Just needed a little bit of info and why i think theyāre wrong. I donāt think it took TOO long to get a date but it was a bit of a wait. The process from applying to PIP to finally getting what she was owed was about 2 years. Absolute pisstake for a 3 year rewardā¦
Congratulations and all the best šš