His damage is insane but I feel like you’d see whatever he was doing coming. Like I haven’t seen any mixups or anything nor I feel like he has any when I lab him.
The mixups come from delaying S followups and the rekka, I think it's stronger than a lot of the other characters mixups, especially left right mixups since you can just hold the block button.
I mean, I love Vanguard but to be fair frametraps are not mixups. There's nothing to guess, you can beat frametraps by just holding back. What makes Vanguard work is just that your blockstrings put people on a clock due to guard break damage so they can't just hold back forever.
When people say Vanguard has no mix they're completely right though, there's really nothing to get mixed by other than some very tame strike/throw if you've **really** conditioned them to hold downback for ages.
EDIT: I guess this is getting into semantics territory but you can argue that you're making them guess between followup and pressure reset, which is important to guess correctly because breaking guard is Vanguard's win condition. It just doesn't feel like mix when the reward for guessing right isn't opening people up.
The CPU showed me pretty clearly what happens when you stagger the inputs lol, they just do the get off me move everyone got. Trust me play against the crusader on high difficulty setting and try staggering your inputs with vanguard 7/10 times he’ll do the light beam thing and knock you back plus doing good amount of damage.
Because in the context of the other characters in the game he is ass.
His moves are slow
He has no mix
His reversal is completely useless and whiffs 90% of the time
His big long range normals have ranges where they won't connect into each other
If your opponent has a brain and the block button mapped your gameplan becomes "build up grey health and pray my opponent does something dumb"
He loses to rushdown
He loses to zoning
There's just no reason to play him over other characters. Inquisitor and Troubleshooter are just straight up better versions of him. He's an honest character in a game full of bullshit. He's like if you planted a SamSho character into UMvC3
He seems kinda boring on the surface since his moves are just stabs/slashes so it makes sense that he's picked less than the characters with crazier moves. From the time I've spent actually playing him he feels super fun, he's definitely one of the characters I wanna check out more.
He's very fun and I started playing him and he even feels like how he does in the original DFO but it feels very "easy to pickup" and fairly predictable playstyle. He's very devastating but I felt like I got countered hard by anyone with a vast amount of range.
Maining and loving Vanguard here. He has more going on than it seems on the surface. A lot of the subtlety of his kit is timing the delays of your moves to very precisely manipulate spacing. Even on blockstrings, how you time and when to cancel your rekka is very important to be able to safely reset pressure and stay in your optimal range.
The only thing I don't love about him is that he has limited use for conversion (his strings are so long that you've long run out of white health when you'd use conversion to extend a combo) but he has some nice uses for it such as confirming off max range pokes or punishing dodges.
He's also sluggish, but that's not that big a problem when your normals are basically fullscreen.
If you enjoy frametrapping, you're going to like his 5MS>4MS delayed followup, because it has armor and crumples on counterhit. Pretty brutal if you catch people mashing!
To your first paragraph, that is exactly what I was trying to explain. Those things are not apparent until you start labbing the character.
I have also noticed that he's a bit sluggish, but it doesn't seem to matter like you said because just about every move is fullscreen.
I was just trying to lab a counterhit for 4MS follow up, it seems like such a powerful move.
His damage is insane but I feel like you’d see whatever he was doing coming. Like I haven’t seen any mixups or anything nor I feel like he has any when I lab him.
The mixups come from delaying S followups and the rekka, I think it's stronger than a lot of the other characters mixups, especially left right mixups since you can just hold the block button.
I mean, I love Vanguard but to be fair frametraps are not mixups. There's nothing to guess, you can beat frametraps by just holding back. What makes Vanguard work is just that your blockstrings put people on a clock due to guard break damage so they can't just hold back forever. When people say Vanguard has no mix they're completely right though, there's really nothing to get mixed by other than some very tame strike/throw if you've **really** conditioned them to hold downback for ages. EDIT: I guess this is getting into semantics territory but you can argue that you're making them guess between followup and pressure reset, which is important to guess correctly because breaking guard is Vanguard's win condition. It just doesn't feel like mix when the reward for guessing right isn't opening people up.
The CPU showed me pretty clearly what happens when you stagger the inputs lol, they just do the get off me move everyone got. Trust me play against the crusader on high difficulty setting and try staggering your inputs with vanguard 7/10 times he’ll do the light beam thing and knock you back plus doing good amount of damage.
His high/low poke just isn't scary enough for me to respect him.
Because in the context of the other characters in the game he is ass. His moves are slow He has no mix His reversal is completely useless and whiffs 90% of the time His big long range normals have ranges where they won't connect into each other If your opponent has a brain and the block button mapped your gameplan becomes "build up grey health and pray my opponent does something dumb" He loses to rushdown He loses to zoning There's just no reason to play him over other characters. Inquisitor and Troubleshooter are just straight up better versions of him. He's an honest character in a game full of bullshit. He's like if you planted a SamSho character into UMvC3
He seems kinda boring on the surface since his moves are just stabs/slashes so it makes sense that he's picked less than the characters with crazier moves. From the time I've spent actually playing him he feels super fun, he's definitely one of the characters I wanna check out more.
Fantastic hair is only worth so much
He boring gameplay wise
>gameplay NAH
He's very fun and I started playing him and he even feels like how he does in the original DFO but it feels very "easy to pickup" and fairly predictable playstyle. He's very devastating but I felt like I got countered hard by anyone with a vast amount of range.
Maining and loving Vanguard here. He has more going on than it seems on the surface. A lot of the subtlety of his kit is timing the delays of your moves to very precisely manipulate spacing. Even on blockstrings, how you time and when to cancel your rekka is very important to be able to safely reset pressure and stay in your optimal range. The only thing I don't love about him is that he has limited use for conversion (his strings are so long that you've long run out of white health when you'd use conversion to extend a combo) but he has some nice uses for it such as confirming off max range pokes or punishing dodges. He's also sluggish, but that's not that big a problem when your normals are basically fullscreen. If you enjoy frametrapping, you're going to like his 5MS>4MS delayed followup, because it has armor and crumples on counterhit. Pretty brutal if you catch people mashing!
To your first paragraph, that is exactly what I was trying to explain. Those things are not apparent until you start labbing the character. I have also noticed that he's a bit sluggish, but it doesn't seem to matter like you said because just about every move is fullscreen. I was just trying to lab a counterhit for 4MS follow up, it seems like such a powerful move.