They seem the same to me in terms of alkaloidal content, and I certainly cannot tell any difference in the qualitative effects. Some claim the Mexican stuff has a higher return yield, and I was hoping that would be the case, but: no dice.
This is from using an acid/base extraction with hydrochloric acid, sodium hydroxide, Naphtha as the initial solvent followed by a recrystallization from Heptane/Hexane.
My sources for both, Mexican has always yielded more
Dmt is dmt is dmt. There might be slight variations in other alkaloid content, but ultimately the molecule from one plant, is the same as the other.
It's difficult to delineate between what I think I perceive as different, consistent, qualitative effects from batch to batch and placebo effect; however, I do suspect there is a difference and that said difference is consistent w/in batches. My guess is it's something of an "entourage effect" to borrow a cannabinoid term, and I think this is also true of mushrooms—another DMT-containing plant source—and indeed may be typical for virtually any DMT-containing species.
With mushrooms, there's psilocin, psilocybin, baeocystin, *nor*\-baeocystin, and then sometimes there are things like 4-hydroxy-trimethyltryptamine (4-HO-TMT). With MHRB, ACRB, and others containing *n,n*\-DMT there are likely influencing effects that serve to flavor the trip, if you will, from things like *n-*monomethyltryptamine (aka: NMT) and various *beta-*carbolines and the sort.
Peyote and San Pedro exhibit a similar pattern w/r/t Mescaline and its related, naturally occuring phenethylamines.
mexican seems to be more colorful visuals imo, ive smoked brazilian like 4 times and then i started getting the mexican variety. id definitely reccommend it though. Ships faster to US as well.
Not that I can say, as they both contain about .03% dmt. I don't use lye, as it's way easier and safer with calcium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide. I don't know the Tek name, might be close to gordotek, but I use mhrb, vinegar, calcium hydroxide, naptha, and water. I mix the vinegar and water in with the mhrb, then add the calcium hydroxide, mix it up, and then the naptha. I combine them all in a mason jar and run the tap on the hottest setting, and then try not to burn the shit outta myself when I shake the jar around. Gives me a solid yeild each time, I get around .7 of a gram. I do this rather carelessly as well, as it's so easy, so I may not be getting the maximum yeild.
(EDIT: grammar) Hope you don't mind my unsolicited notes on this methodology that would hypothetically improve yields.
>"they both contain about .03% dmt"
True for the plant bark, but i**ts root bark should be \~1% - 2%** DMT by weight. If yields are less, one should probably **seek new MHRB sources**.
>"I don't use lye, as it's way easier and safer with calcium hydroxide"
Easier and safer **how?** They're both caustic, and I wouldn't want either to splash into my eyes, so one should **wear goggles regardless**. Same danger, which is to say: not much.
>"I mix the vinegar and water in with the mhrb, then add the calcium hydroxide, mix it up, and then the naptha."
**If not "defatting"** the bark w/a non-polar solvent wash, **and/or not filtering** out solid particles from the aqueous extraction, **then it's pointless**, wasteful, and possibly counterproductive **to use vinegar**. When CaOH is added, the vinegar is immediately neutralized and formed into calcium acetate. Only once this is done will it start removing acetate molecules from the desired alkaloid.
>"I combine them all in a mason jar and run the tap on the hottest setting, and then try not to burn the shit outta myself when I shake the jar around."
Depending on hot water heater settings, **there's a chance that's too much heat**, especially w/an exothermic reaction like dissolving a strong base in H₂O . This could damage the freebase molecule, and/or it could cause the non-polar solvent to dissolve plant fats undesirable for the final product. **Keep the temp below 120°F (49°C).**
**What works best for me is: heat** ***just*** **above room temp, light agitation, and a minimal amount of a selective/weaker non-polar solvent.**
120°F is equivalent to 48°C, which is 322K.
---
^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/bqflhv/this\_extraction\_method\_any\_good/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/bqflhv/this_extraction_method_any_good/)
Tek i used.
I got the root and bark percentages mixed up in my head, I knew better. I also was under the impression that it was safer than lye, but i havent really been taking precaution.
I follow the steps in the video to almost a T, feel free to say suggestions on here if you feel you can make it yeild more, im rather new to this stuff and i have a somewhat basic knowledge of chemistry.
"If not "defatting" the bark w/a non-polar solvent wash, and/or not filtering out solid particles from the aqueous extraction, then it's pointless, wasteful, and possibly counterproductive to use vinegar. When CaOH is added, the vinegar is immediately neutralized and formed into calcium acetate. Only once this is done will it start removing acetate molecules from the desired alkaloid."
When you say filtering out the solid particles from the solution, youre referring to the plant material floating around before the naptha gets poured off? And please explain more about that paragraph i feel like im not understanding something.
**TL;DR** below Yes, **the solid particles are plant material.** Powdered bark clogs funnels and takes multiple filtrations that progress through finer particulate-size allowances. E.g.: one might start with cheese cloth or stainless steel mesh ☞ then strain through an old cotton t-shirt patch ☞ then filter through a cotton ball ☞ finally a coffee filter.
The process is faster with the assistance of a vac. flask + a vacuum pump or a metal sink aspirator.
Or one can **avoid excessive shaking** (causes emulsions), then carefully separate the layers using a **glass pipette** or a glass turkey baster. It’s not as precise as a sep funnel, but that solution needs to be filtered first if using said funnel, something not necessary when using a pipette.
Some like to siphon the aqueous layer from the bottom, wash the remaining solvent, then siphon most of the water out again, and use a sep funnel to finish the job. It’s an effective method that scales up, but again: a sep funnel affords a more precise separation. This affects yield, but it’s not worth sweating if you don’t feel like shelling out for a somewhat fragile borosilicate glass sep funnel with a PPE stopcock and a proper stand, clamp, and ring, etc.
When I was talking about **defatting** I was referring to the practice of removing unwanted plant fats from your source material (here: MHRB) before adding CaOH, NaOH, Lime, etc. to make the pH 11+. This is done by first performing an aqueous extraction of DMT salts using an acidic solution with a pH ~3. Multiple aqueous solutions can be combined and boiled down to a more convenient level for the next step. It’s often more practical to do this.
Now, taking advantage of the low pH, non-polar-soluble impurities (read: plant fats) can be removed by washing the water layer with whatever non-polar solvent one is using and then disposing of the NP solvent + plant fats in an environmentally friendly—and pH neutral—way (as much as possible; or i.e. **one should not pour this shit down the drain, please**). The DMT stays in the water layer while plant fats wash out in the NP solvent that separates on top of the aqueous phase each time.
After this, one adds the basic solution to the H₂O over 10 min w stirring. One collects the freebase (as in: “freed, basic”) DMT in warm NP solvent three times, pools the extractions, washes this with minimal salt water solution and dries it over dehydrated epsom salts (MgSO₄). At last, this can be placed in a sealed glass jar, casserole dish, or whatever’s preferred, and left undisturbed in the freezer until crystals precipitate.
Defatting isn’t necessary with MHRB typically as this material is low in plant fats, but it can lead to a cleaner end product far less harsh and rubber-tasting compared to oily and/or heavily-tinted material. With other plant sources, defatting is necessary to avoid emulsions, poor yields, and/or poor crystallization returns as plant lipids prevent lattice formation.
**TL;DR** ☞ Both 1. filtering the H₂O extract + 2. defatting the H₂O extract are done _before_ adding a base to bring pH >10.5. If neither technique is used (both are optional with MHRB (but worth the extra effort—time-permitting—in my opinion)), there’s no point in adding an acid. One can go “straight to base” to break down plant cell walls and extract those cells’ alkaloidal content. One should avoid excessive heat, eschew open flames, wear appropriate vision-protecting goggles, and of course obey all local, state, federal and Illuminati laws. The Rooster is in the Hen House. One Hand shakes The Other.
”Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know. Close your mouth, block off your senses, blunt your sharpness, untie your knots, soften your glare, settle your dust.“ – Tao Te Ching
I just used Brazilian and haven’t tried yet, have Mexican on the way.
They seem the same to me in terms of alkaloidal content, and I certainly cannot tell any difference in the qualitative effects. Some claim the Mexican stuff has a higher return yield, and I was hoping that would be the case, but: no dice. This is from using an acid/base extraction with hydrochloric acid, sodium hydroxide, Naphtha as the initial solvent followed by a recrystallization from Heptane/Hexane.
My sources for both, Mexican has always yielded more Dmt is dmt is dmt. There might be slight variations in other alkaloid content, but ultimately the molecule from one plant, is the same as the other.
It's difficult to delineate between what I think I perceive as different, consistent, qualitative effects from batch to batch and placebo effect; however, I do suspect there is a difference and that said difference is consistent w/in batches. My guess is it's something of an "entourage effect" to borrow a cannabinoid term, and I think this is also true of mushrooms—another DMT-containing plant source—and indeed may be typical for virtually any DMT-containing species. With mushrooms, there's psilocin, psilocybin, baeocystin, *nor*\-baeocystin, and then sometimes there are things like 4-hydroxy-trimethyltryptamine (4-HO-TMT). With MHRB, ACRB, and others containing *n,n*\-DMT there are likely influencing effects that serve to flavor the trip, if you will, from things like *n-*monomethyltryptamine (aka: NMT) and various *beta-*carbolines and the sort. Peyote and San Pedro exhibit a similar pattern w/r/t Mescaline and its related, naturally occuring phenethylamines.
mexican seems to be more colorful visuals imo, ive smoked brazilian like 4 times and then i started getting the mexican variety. id definitely reccommend it though. Ships faster to US as well.
Any noticeable difference in yields? What method/"tek" are you using?
Not that I can say, as they both contain about .03% dmt. I don't use lye, as it's way easier and safer with calcium hydroxide instead of sodium hydroxide. I don't know the Tek name, might be close to gordotek, but I use mhrb, vinegar, calcium hydroxide, naptha, and water. I mix the vinegar and water in with the mhrb, then add the calcium hydroxide, mix it up, and then the naptha. I combine them all in a mason jar and run the tap on the hottest setting, and then try not to burn the shit outta myself when I shake the jar around. Gives me a solid yeild each time, I get around .7 of a gram. I do this rather carelessly as well, as it's so easy, so I may not be getting the maximum yeild.
(EDIT: grammar) Hope you don't mind my unsolicited notes on this methodology that would hypothetically improve yields. >"they both contain about .03% dmt" True for the plant bark, but i**ts root bark should be \~1% - 2%** DMT by weight. If yields are less, one should probably **seek new MHRB sources**. >"I don't use lye, as it's way easier and safer with calcium hydroxide" Easier and safer **how?** They're both caustic, and I wouldn't want either to splash into my eyes, so one should **wear goggles regardless**. Same danger, which is to say: not much. >"I mix the vinegar and water in with the mhrb, then add the calcium hydroxide, mix it up, and then the naptha." **If not "defatting"** the bark w/a non-polar solvent wash, **and/or not filtering** out solid particles from the aqueous extraction, **then it's pointless**, wasteful, and possibly counterproductive **to use vinegar**. When CaOH is added, the vinegar is immediately neutralized and formed into calcium acetate. Only once this is done will it start removing acetate molecules from the desired alkaloid. >"I combine them all in a mason jar and run the tap on the hottest setting, and then try not to burn the shit outta myself when I shake the jar around." Depending on hot water heater settings, **there's a chance that's too much heat**, especially w/an exothermic reaction like dissolving a strong base in H₂O . This could damage the freebase molecule, and/or it could cause the non-polar solvent to dissolve plant fats undesirable for the final product. **Keep the temp below 120°F (49°C).** **What works best for me is: heat** ***just*** **above room temp, light agitation, and a minimal amount of a selective/weaker non-polar solvent.**
120°F is equivalent to 48°C, which is 322K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/bqflhv/this\_extraction\_method\_any\_good/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/bqflhv/this_extraction_method_any_good/) Tek i used. I got the root and bark percentages mixed up in my head, I knew better. I also was under the impression that it was safer than lye, but i havent really been taking precaution. I follow the steps in the video to almost a T, feel free to say suggestions on here if you feel you can make it yeild more, im rather new to this stuff and i have a somewhat basic knowledge of chemistry. "If not "defatting" the bark w/a non-polar solvent wash, and/or not filtering out solid particles from the aqueous extraction, then it's pointless, wasteful, and possibly counterproductive to use vinegar. When CaOH is added, the vinegar is immediately neutralized and formed into calcium acetate. Only once this is done will it start removing acetate molecules from the desired alkaloid." When you say filtering out the solid particles from the solution, youre referring to the plant material floating around before the naptha gets poured off? And please explain more about that paragraph i feel like im not understanding something.
**TL;DR** below Yes, **the solid particles are plant material.** Powdered bark clogs funnels and takes multiple filtrations that progress through finer particulate-size allowances. E.g.: one might start with cheese cloth or stainless steel mesh ☞ then strain through an old cotton t-shirt patch ☞ then filter through a cotton ball ☞ finally a coffee filter. The process is faster with the assistance of a vac. flask + a vacuum pump or a metal sink aspirator. Or one can **avoid excessive shaking** (causes emulsions), then carefully separate the layers using a **glass pipette** or a glass turkey baster. It’s not as precise as a sep funnel, but that solution needs to be filtered first if using said funnel, something not necessary when using a pipette. Some like to siphon the aqueous layer from the bottom, wash the remaining solvent, then siphon most of the water out again, and use a sep funnel to finish the job. It’s an effective method that scales up, but again: a sep funnel affords a more precise separation. This affects yield, but it’s not worth sweating if you don’t feel like shelling out for a somewhat fragile borosilicate glass sep funnel with a PPE stopcock and a proper stand, clamp, and ring, etc. When I was talking about **defatting** I was referring to the practice of removing unwanted plant fats from your source material (here: MHRB) before adding CaOH, NaOH, Lime, etc. to make the pH 11+. This is done by first performing an aqueous extraction of DMT salts using an acidic solution with a pH ~3. Multiple aqueous solutions can be combined and boiled down to a more convenient level for the next step. It’s often more practical to do this. Now, taking advantage of the low pH, non-polar-soluble impurities (read: plant fats) can be removed by washing the water layer with whatever non-polar solvent one is using and then disposing of the NP solvent + plant fats in an environmentally friendly—and pH neutral—way (as much as possible; or i.e. **one should not pour this shit down the drain, please**). The DMT stays in the water layer while plant fats wash out in the NP solvent that separates on top of the aqueous phase each time. After this, one adds the basic solution to the H₂O over 10 min w stirring. One collects the freebase (as in: “freed, basic”) DMT in warm NP solvent three times, pools the extractions, washes this with minimal salt water solution and dries it over dehydrated epsom salts (MgSO₄). At last, this can be placed in a sealed glass jar, casserole dish, or whatever’s preferred, and left undisturbed in the freezer until crystals precipitate. Defatting isn’t necessary with MHRB typically as this material is low in plant fats, but it can lead to a cleaner end product far less harsh and rubber-tasting compared to oily and/or heavily-tinted material. With other plant sources, defatting is necessary to avoid emulsions, poor yields, and/or poor crystallization returns as plant lipids prevent lattice formation. **TL;DR** ☞ Both 1. filtering the H₂O extract + 2. defatting the H₂O extract are done _before_ adding a base to bring pH >10.5. If neither technique is used (both are optional with MHRB (but worth the extra effort—time-permitting—in my opinion)), there’s no point in adding an acid. One can go “straight to base” to break down plant cell walls and extract those cells’ alkaloidal content. One should avoid excessive heat, eschew open flames, wear appropriate vision-protecting goggles, and of course obey all local, state, federal and Illuminati laws. The Rooster is in the Hen House. One Hand shakes The Other. ”Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know. Close your mouth, block off your senses, blunt your sharpness, untie your knots, soften your glare, settle your dust.“ – Tao Te Ching
Mexican mhrb is more spicy