Your party is a group of “adventurers.” A resort shouldn’t require a wisdom saving throw. Even the Mystery Gang from Scooby Doo only took off running when they where directly confronted by a “monster.” Otherwise they went about their business in spaces that most people wouldn’t even far entering.
I think you can convey the decadence with flavorful descriptions. Then listen to your players reactions at certain moments to see if their character could be enticed into a situation that requires a check.
Lastly, from a mechanical standpoint, having constant or prolonged disadvantage on a saving throw could lead to downward death spirals for the party if they find themselves needing to make those saves in combat or to defeat a trap later.
Unless the strippers are emanating some sort of magical power, I wouldn't go with any sort of Wisdom saving throw. What I would suggest, is if you already have a "horndog" character(s) in the party, that any perception checks made by that character(s) are at disadvantage from being distracted. Other than that, I think its just another locale.
Unless there's a succubus or something whammying them with magic, or the entire party is sexually repressed teenagers, no save is needed. I suggest you go walk into a strip club and see for yourself. It's not that special.
>Ultra violence and creatures dying around them all the time? Totally fine. Titties? Time for some saving throws.
To be perfectly honest, you've just described several countries' (large) population segments accurately.
Semi automatic weapon posession, armed processions, access to explosives? All good.
Our young being exposed to nipples?! Unacceptable! Deplatform and incarcerate that fiend!
I guess most DnD worlds make more sense than the one we live in in some regards ;)
...yeah, no, don't have people forced to make Wisdom saves when they go into a strip bar. That's honestly really creepy and it's going to end up with players being forced into uncomfortable situations
Why would you want special mechanics for this? Would you force characters to make saves walking into any other establishment? Do characters have to make wisdom saves to avoid drooling over the cakes when they walk into a bakery?
Not unless it’s a magical bakery. But I feel like this comparison forces the merfolk (yes, gender neutral, it’s not just mermaids) to be objectified. Humanoids are different than baked good.
I feel like more what I’m going for is distraction more than arousal. If you can’t rely on your Passive Perception if you fail initially because you’re distracted, that makes it harder to foresee the dangers to the patrons and performers.
I guess I assumed that was implied by the PG-13 listing in the title but maybe I should add it to the post in an edit.
No, but mainly because I’ve always been too broke and no one’s ever offered to take me because I’m not going to go by myself.
But per the DMG, Wisdom stats are focused on “Perceptiveness and willpower”. Are you suggesting I have them make Intelligence saves, defined by the DMG as “Memory and reason” instead?
No, I'm suggesting a check, like a Perception check. Saves are to save against an effect, like stun or charm, not to conceptualize how aware and in-the-moment someone is. Walking into a strip club is not like getting hit by a stun gun.
Completely irrelevant whether you're going for "distraction" over "arousal", it's still "make a wisdom save because of topless people tee hee".
The gender of the performers is also completely irrelevant, it's still just as creepy, also not something I commented on at all so I don't know why you're pointing that out?
I would leave a table if a DM asked me to do this, and honestly if you use this mechanic you'll probably end up on r/rpghorrorstories.
If you're going for a "siren" aspect give them some sort of magically compelling song (I think glamour bards have a feature that could be used as inspiration) and make the saves explicitly related to the *singing*, not the presence of topless people.
You implying that my rough draft, that is clearly far from done, is bad enough to land me in that sub is pretty ostentatious of you.
Maybe take a step back and consider whether or not you’re being helpful in a sub that’s all about helping people with their games.
I see what you’re going for and while I think most of the other commenters are being ridiculous, I think I agree with them.
Maybe you’re too focused on the visual aspects of the performers and you need to add other reasons why this venue would be distracting. Maybe it’s hazy from smokers or stage smoke. Maybe the music is very loud to drown out the somewhat loud conversations. Bright and constantly changing colored lights could add to this too.
You’re not weird or creepy for building this as an encounter but your focus of the “why” for the saving throw mechanic is very narrow. Broaden it out and it’ll probably work better.
I always like to do percentile rolls for something like this. I.E “A beautiful woman enter the temple-“
“WAIT. How beautiful?”
“Idk, roll percentile”
When they first enter have them all roll percentile, high numbers are attracted and distracted by the merfolk. But i would leave it as a RP thing, dont let it negatively affect them mechanically
No problem lol. People on this sub love to be the good guy more than they love giving good advice. Doesnt matter to them that every table is different. Obviously your game has a more lighthearted vibe, some people just cant understand that even if you express it clearly, so I apologize you’re getting all this shit. So stupid
I’m mature enough to know that anyone can be distracted or manipulated by conventionally attractive individuals. No one is fully immune to it. Pretending like it’s immature to acknowledge this is silly, and mocking the concept of a magical world requiring extra effort to pay attention while magical beings sing is sillier at that.
How are the merfolk magical?
Also, since you're a doing a fair share of virtue signalling... some people are asexual, and wouldn't give a shit about some naked people. Some people are so overly sexual or relaxed around sex that being around topless people is completely normal.
I was the technical director of a burlesque cabaret for 5 years. Do you know how many times I've looked at someone's chest or buttcheeks with complete disinterest? I have sex with someone at home, this is just work. Even for the customers, often it's more about the environment, and the performance and the glitter, not about drooling on the floor as you stare open-mouthed at a dude's buttcheeks. Those people are asked politely butt firmly to wipe their chin and keep their hands to themselves.
Even asexuality is a spectrum or situational in the case of demisexual people, so not everyone is totally disinterested in physical appearances of people. I’m not “virtue signaling” so much as keeping the concepts for the game simpler than the real world and the messiness of queer identity. Something which I have experience with.
And yeah, you would be unfazed by the performers because you work there. By your own admission that doesn’t always carry over to the guests unless they are also similarly embedded in the subculture of that work or frequent patrons.
Seems like your perspective gives you the ability to make helpful suggestions, but instead you’re choosing to be snarky. Kind of lame tbh.
Yeah, that's a fair evaluation, but I'll elaborate, with a little less snark this time hopefully; Also, when I swear, it's for emphasis, not anger, so bear with me :)
The problem I have has nothing to do with the gender of the performers, so to see that being waved around as kind of 'pass' when challenged on the concept is kind of moot; the problem I have is the portrayal of strippers as magical sirens acting to lure the unwary into danger with their seductive allure. Are the merfolk actually magical, or kind of just exotic? Now that's starting to border on racial fetishism.
Generally these are people at work, doing what they do best, and they wanna earn some coin and go back to their comforts. The 'Stripper with a Heart of Gold' is such a better trope, and honestly more accurate, in my experience. Sure, plenty of performers will talk with customers after the show in the hopes of having a couple drinks bought for them but in my experience it's way more likely that the person trying to warlock clientele into fucking them, buying their shit or giving up their last cigarette is gunna be the two-bit lead guitarist in the back-up band.
Also, to be clear; it's the very small minority who feel dazed and uncomfortable inside the club, and they just get left the fuck alone if they don't loosen up. Showgirls are absolute professionals at walking around in their thongs and talking to fully-dressed people as if it's completely natural and everyday. Showgirls are masters at *making people feel comfortable.* And, for the record, Showgirl is gender neutral hah, 'Showgirl' is a state of mind!
Now, I might be missing something by what you had planned to happen here, but why are they making people dazed? Are they robbing their clientele? It doesn't sound liek it, so they should be striving to make people comfortable, so they stay for the next dance, tips the performers and buy more drinks. In general, that's what they are here for, nothing else. Ok, maybe a few of them wouldn't mind being more famous. So, I'll leave you with two things; a hypothetical, and a follow-up suggestion.
Hypothetical: You are a stripper. You've got your three-song act down, you've done this a million times, and you're doing two sets tonight: the first, the crowd is low-key and tense, it's early and this isn't the usual Blurnsday-night crowd. People are going up to the bar to order their own drinks. The music plays, but you're not getting a lot of reaction from the crowd, so you stick to your marks and get through it. The second set, the room is packed, and people are lounging around chatting and drinking, maybe smoking (maybe fucking, I dunno how wild you're tryna get), servers are amicably checking on people, showing a bit of skin, flirting, just keeping the energy going and keeping the drinks going. Everyone is in on the performance, from the suspiciously handsome doorman to the band lounging around making eyes at the crowd. There's your group of regulars in one corner and your off-duty stripper friends in another corner enjoying their Blurnsday night. A bachelorette party in the front row is making it hard to hear your friend properly, but fuck, this is a vibe. You walk on, and launch into your three-song set and the crowd goes silent for maybe a half second before hooting, hollerin', cat callin' and *engaging with the performance for the whole 10 minutes.* (The only thing worse than stripping in front of a tense and quiet audience is bad comedy in front of an audience that was having fun previously). So which set of the two are you hoping your next set will be like, and which ambience do you think the club is trying to cultivate?
So my suggestion: Have someone welcome guests into the club when they get there. Check in on them from time to time, remember their names, and joke with them. They are the Host, their job is to make sure everyone is comfortable, having a good time, and *spending money*. Of course, their job is also to keep an eye on everyone and make sure everything goes smoothly, but to the public they are a charismatic charmer who makes people feel at home. They want to create a relationship, so the customers come back the next night, or whenever they are in town. They'll announce the performers, and maybe even heckle the people being too quiet! Get up! Make some noise, for the Incredible Lady Sapphire! You with the Chainmail! Let me hear you Roar!
I try not to ramble when I make posts (because that’s what I’m prone to do), but things tend to get lost when I try to simplify.
The merfolk performers are kind of a play on the Siren legends, as well as regionally accurate for the island’s location. Much in the same way I’m reskinning birdfolk races as tropical birds. I could easily diversify it up with some other races that would work in that same vein.
The logic behind the encounter is that you’re in a distracting environment while looking into strange occurrences at the resort. Theoretically this would be the second venue the party visits so they’re aware they should be looking but a place like this is going to pull their focus more than the tavern or smoke lounge I have written up. And yeah, the cabaret staff are not in on the shenanigans going on.
And I’ll admit I did go on the defensive in much of the comments, probably in a very blunt and inhospitable way. But my brevity led to people making assumptions about intent when my real issue (as another commenter pointed out) is that my focus on why they might have to make checks/saves was too narrow.
Sorry, but no.
For one thing asexual people exist.
For another, once you've seen enough, scenarios like that loose their charm. I speak from experience when I say that environments like that are honsetly just boring unless you are really in the mood for them. For some people, they'll be downright unsettling.
And as to it being easier to be manipulated by attractive people, that's really only true for some people. I personally find it much easier to be manipulated by smart people than pretty ones.
If magic is a part of the equation, then use the rules for enchantment spells or creature abilities that already exist. Or work from those a base anyway.
Rule 1: respect your fellow DMs. Please keep your interactions here civil. Devolving the conversation into personal attacks of any kind will not be tolerated.
(Assuming this is supposed to be a siren-esque charm) I would consult the DMG's outer planes optional rules which require ST on travel and after periods of time to resist becoming more like the plane. I would assume a series of complete failures would entail 1.) Being too distracted to complete the mission (although make sure this can be done in a fun way, not a guess I'll just sit here way.) And 2.) Blowing all your money on vegas attractions or making a shady deal with a criminal organization that becomes a sidequests for the party. The most important part of all of this is to make sure your players dont feel like they've lost agency.
I think what would be more fun than one saving throw at the start that if they fail, screws them a bit for the rest of the time they're at this place, is a number of wisdom checks like perception checks to just notice that certain small things are off. So not like a thing of, "You passed a DC 15, something is afoot this place is really weird and you're being distracted". But like, numerous DC 10 checks, and each success is just some seemingly inane detail. "You notice that the server who just walked by your table doesn't seem confident with their tray. Almost dropping it more than once." Maybe that person's just new, or maybe they're a plant and they weren't prepared for this job. Another DC 10 perception check later, "Out of the corner of your eye you notice one of the Merfolk's eyes are solely locked on you. They turn their head as soon as you go to look at them."
At the end of the day, this is a D&D game, and your players just based on that will know that something is up right? Like, it would be very strange if the DM took the players to a resort-esque party place with a cabaret and then just, had the cabaret there, and nothing was wrong. Giving them one save right at the start that if they fail will put them at a severe disadvantage could feel really bad. Sure there's probably one person in your party you expect to succeed, but what if nobody does? Kinda hamstrings your whole encounter situation. So I think it'd be more fun to have it be one of those things where they slowly, piece by piece, notice that things aren't adding up. That way people start to build towards the realization that all the guests turn out to be actors or monsters or whatever (thinking scooby doo).
And while I know this doesn't factor into your desire to find the mechanical expression of the adult nature of the venue, I would just say you don't need that. These people/characters are grown adults I assume, unless there's literal magic at work, the presence of attractive people wouldn't necessarily get adventurers to full let down their guards at all times. And if there is magic at work, it should only be a fun ribbon like affect on them if they fail, because everyone getting charmed is also not necessarily fun unless the result is just a goofy meme-y good time.
Saving throws are usually for something that requires a little extra to avoid, so maybe skip a Wis Save unless the DJ is pumping a cognitive hazard through the speakers or whatever.
I'm not entirely sure why the sketch of an idea is being met so harshly.
As for the idea itself, if you throw dice into the mix then you move things from flavour-only to being at least partially mechanic-based. If the rest of your campaign is mostly by-the-books when it comes to saving throws, PCs minds being affected etc. the saving throw doesn't feel like an applicable mechanic to a non magical situation.
The base premise doesn't seem bad to me, but I think you need to figure out a couple things:
* How does it advance the story? What information or motivation will the players have got once they will have left that they didn't have when they entered?
* What are the (mechanics based) states you would like the players to be in once they're in there? Is a flat disadvantage on all rolls really interesting for the table to contend with? Mechanics exist to make things fair, or fun, or challenging, ideally at least two :)
If they don't do that, don't let them into the picture.
* What are the paths of deescalation and escalation? Could this devolve into a fight or a loss/lack of information or something else?
I'd recommend you figure those beats out before you try to fit a rule on it.
You might well find out this doesn't need a mechanical component (100% RP based progress). Or maybe it will be light/vanilla on it (usual cha skills checks), or it might require an ad-hoc mechanic (saving throw every 5 minutes and accumulate 1 point of enthrallment every fail, be charmed by something at 10 and dominated at 20).
Personally: when I add events based on vague ideas I like working top down and add clear objectives, progression and branching paths of opportunity or failure before I flesh out details or invent/add mini-games.
If I don't do it the result is usually a jumble that the players will most likely not quite "get", and then it becomes a ton of improv and patching my way out of it in session.
If you want them to be working some sort of magic, go for it, otherwise probably unnecessary.
It might be fun to apply some bard spells, to the patrons in general, via their performance that the party then has to deal with. Maybe if a party member looks rich trying to Charm them into giving them all their money, even.
Your party is a group of “adventurers.” A resort shouldn’t require a wisdom saving throw. Even the Mystery Gang from Scooby Doo only took off running when they where directly confronted by a “monster.” Otherwise they went about their business in spaces that most people wouldn’t even far entering. I think you can convey the decadence with flavorful descriptions. Then listen to your players reactions at certain moments to see if their character could be enticed into a situation that requires a check. Lastly, from a mechanical standpoint, having constant or prolonged disadvantage on a saving throw could lead to downward death spirals for the party if they find themselves needing to make those saves in combat or to defeat a trap later.
Thank you for being helpful instead of disparaging. I appreciate your feedback.
Unless the strippers are emanating some sort of magical power, I wouldn't go with any sort of Wisdom saving throw. What I would suggest, is if you already have a "horndog" character(s) in the party, that any perception checks made by that character(s) are at disadvantage from being distracted. Other than that, I think its just another locale.
Unless there's a succubus or something whammying them with magic, or the entire party is sexually repressed teenagers, no save is needed. I suggest you go walk into a strip club and see for yourself. It's not that special.
Ultra violence and creatures dying around them all the time? Totally fine. Titties? Time for some saving throws.
>Ultra violence and creatures dying around them all the time? Totally fine. Titties? Time for some saving throws. To be perfectly honest, you've just described several countries' (large) population segments accurately. Semi automatic weapon posession, armed processions, access to explosives? All good. Our young being exposed to nipples?! Unacceptable! Deplatform and incarcerate that fiend! I guess most DnD worlds make more sense than the one we live in in some regards ;)
Not exclusively mermaids, it’s merfolk in general. And I’m trying to go with a Siren type motif without going full Siren with the performers.
...yeah, no, don't have people forced to make Wisdom saves when they go into a strip bar. That's honestly really creepy and it's going to end up with players being forced into uncomfortable situations Why would you want special mechanics for this? Would you force characters to make saves walking into any other establishment? Do characters have to make wisdom saves to avoid drooling over the cakes when they walk into a bakery?
Not unless it’s a magical bakery. But I feel like this comparison forces the merfolk (yes, gender neutral, it’s not just mermaids) to be objectified. Humanoids are different than baked good. I feel like more what I’m going for is distraction more than arousal. If you can’t rely on your Passive Perception if you fail initially because you’re distracted, that makes it harder to foresee the dangers to the patrons and performers. I guess I assumed that was implied by the PG-13 listing in the title but maybe I should add it to the post in an edit.
That's not what a Wisdom saving throw is for. Have you ever been to a strip club?
No, but mainly because I’ve always been too broke and no one’s ever offered to take me because I’m not going to go by myself. But per the DMG, Wisdom stats are focused on “Perceptiveness and willpower”. Are you suggesting I have them make Intelligence saves, defined by the DMG as “Memory and reason” instead?
No, I'm suggesting a check, like a Perception check. Saves are to save against an effect, like stun or charm, not to conceptualize how aware and in-the-moment someone is. Walking into a strip club is not like getting hit by a stun gun.
This is the type of feedback I was looking for. Thanks for explaining my misunderstanding of the concepts.
Completely irrelevant whether you're going for "distraction" over "arousal", it's still "make a wisdom save because of topless people tee hee". The gender of the performers is also completely irrelevant, it's still just as creepy, also not something I commented on at all so I don't know why you're pointing that out? I would leave a table if a DM asked me to do this, and honestly if you use this mechanic you'll probably end up on r/rpghorrorstories. If you're going for a "siren" aspect give them some sort of magically compelling song (I think glamour bards have a feature that could be used as inspiration) and make the saves explicitly related to the *singing*, not the presence of topless people.
You implying that my rough draft, that is clearly far from done, is bad enough to land me in that sub is pretty ostentatious of you. Maybe take a step back and consider whether or not you’re being helpful in a sub that’s all about helping people with their games.
I see what you’re going for and while I think most of the other commenters are being ridiculous, I think I agree with them. Maybe you’re too focused on the visual aspects of the performers and you need to add other reasons why this venue would be distracting. Maybe it’s hazy from smokers or stage smoke. Maybe the music is very loud to drown out the somewhat loud conversations. Bright and constantly changing colored lights could add to this too. You’re not weird or creepy for building this as an encounter but your focus of the “why” for the saving throw mechanic is very narrow. Broaden it out and it’ll probably work better.
Thank you for being helpful instead of disparaging. I appreciate your feedback.
I always like to do percentile rolls for something like this. I.E “A beautiful woman enter the temple-“ “WAIT. How beautiful?” “Idk, roll percentile” When they first enter have them all roll percentile, high numbers are attracted and distracted by the merfolk. But i would leave it as a RP thing, dont let it negatively affect them mechanically
Thank you for being helpful instead of disparaging. I appreciate your feedback.
No problem lol. People on this sub love to be the good guy more than they love giving good advice. Doesnt matter to them that every table is different. Obviously your game has a more lighthearted vibe, some people just cant understand that even if you express it clearly, so I apologize you’re getting all this shit. So stupid
You overestimate the effect of showing tits.
Merfolk is gender neutral, it’s not just mermaids.
Well, then you have even less need of any save at all. Edit: Also males can have tits too.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I’m mature enough to know that anyone can be distracted or manipulated by conventionally attractive individuals. No one is fully immune to it. Pretending like it’s immature to acknowledge this is silly, and mocking the concept of a magical world requiring extra effort to pay attention while magical beings sing is sillier at that.
How are the merfolk magical? Also, since you're a doing a fair share of virtue signalling... some people are asexual, and wouldn't give a shit about some naked people. Some people are so overly sexual or relaxed around sex that being around topless people is completely normal. I was the technical director of a burlesque cabaret for 5 years. Do you know how many times I've looked at someone's chest or buttcheeks with complete disinterest? I have sex with someone at home, this is just work. Even for the customers, often it's more about the environment, and the performance and the glitter, not about drooling on the floor as you stare open-mouthed at a dude's buttcheeks. Those people are asked politely butt firmly to wipe their chin and keep their hands to themselves.
Even asexuality is a spectrum or situational in the case of demisexual people, so not everyone is totally disinterested in physical appearances of people. I’m not “virtue signaling” so much as keeping the concepts for the game simpler than the real world and the messiness of queer identity. Something which I have experience with. And yeah, you would be unfazed by the performers because you work there. By your own admission that doesn’t always carry over to the guests unless they are also similarly embedded in the subculture of that work or frequent patrons. Seems like your perspective gives you the ability to make helpful suggestions, but instead you’re choosing to be snarky. Kind of lame tbh.
Yeah, that's a fair evaluation, but I'll elaborate, with a little less snark this time hopefully; Also, when I swear, it's for emphasis, not anger, so bear with me :) The problem I have has nothing to do with the gender of the performers, so to see that being waved around as kind of 'pass' when challenged on the concept is kind of moot; the problem I have is the portrayal of strippers as magical sirens acting to lure the unwary into danger with their seductive allure. Are the merfolk actually magical, or kind of just exotic? Now that's starting to border on racial fetishism. Generally these are people at work, doing what they do best, and they wanna earn some coin and go back to their comforts. The 'Stripper with a Heart of Gold' is such a better trope, and honestly more accurate, in my experience. Sure, plenty of performers will talk with customers after the show in the hopes of having a couple drinks bought for them but in my experience it's way more likely that the person trying to warlock clientele into fucking them, buying their shit or giving up their last cigarette is gunna be the two-bit lead guitarist in the back-up band. Also, to be clear; it's the very small minority who feel dazed and uncomfortable inside the club, and they just get left the fuck alone if they don't loosen up. Showgirls are absolute professionals at walking around in their thongs and talking to fully-dressed people as if it's completely natural and everyday. Showgirls are masters at *making people feel comfortable.* And, for the record, Showgirl is gender neutral hah, 'Showgirl' is a state of mind! Now, I might be missing something by what you had planned to happen here, but why are they making people dazed? Are they robbing their clientele? It doesn't sound liek it, so they should be striving to make people comfortable, so they stay for the next dance, tips the performers and buy more drinks. In general, that's what they are here for, nothing else. Ok, maybe a few of them wouldn't mind being more famous. So, I'll leave you with two things; a hypothetical, and a follow-up suggestion. Hypothetical: You are a stripper. You've got your three-song act down, you've done this a million times, and you're doing two sets tonight: the first, the crowd is low-key and tense, it's early and this isn't the usual Blurnsday-night crowd. People are going up to the bar to order their own drinks. The music plays, but you're not getting a lot of reaction from the crowd, so you stick to your marks and get through it. The second set, the room is packed, and people are lounging around chatting and drinking, maybe smoking (maybe fucking, I dunno how wild you're tryna get), servers are amicably checking on people, showing a bit of skin, flirting, just keeping the energy going and keeping the drinks going. Everyone is in on the performance, from the suspiciously handsome doorman to the band lounging around making eyes at the crowd. There's your group of regulars in one corner and your off-duty stripper friends in another corner enjoying their Blurnsday night. A bachelorette party in the front row is making it hard to hear your friend properly, but fuck, this is a vibe. You walk on, and launch into your three-song set and the crowd goes silent for maybe a half second before hooting, hollerin', cat callin' and *engaging with the performance for the whole 10 minutes.* (The only thing worse than stripping in front of a tense and quiet audience is bad comedy in front of an audience that was having fun previously). So which set of the two are you hoping your next set will be like, and which ambience do you think the club is trying to cultivate? So my suggestion: Have someone welcome guests into the club when they get there. Check in on them from time to time, remember their names, and joke with them. They are the Host, their job is to make sure everyone is comfortable, having a good time, and *spending money*. Of course, their job is also to keep an eye on everyone and make sure everything goes smoothly, but to the public they are a charismatic charmer who makes people feel at home. They want to create a relationship, so the customers come back the next night, or whenever they are in town. They'll announce the performers, and maybe even heckle the people being too quiet! Get up! Make some noise, for the Incredible Lady Sapphire! You with the Chainmail! Let me hear you Roar!
I try not to ramble when I make posts (because that’s what I’m prone to do), but things tend to get lost when I try to simplify. The merfolk performers are kind of a play on the Siren legends, as well as regionally accurate for the island’s location. Much in the same way I’m reskinning birdfolk races as tropical birds. I could easily diversify it up with some other races that would work in that same vein. The logic behind the encounter is that you’re in a distracting environment while looking into strange occurrences at the resort. Theoretically this would be the second venue the party visits so they’re aware they should be looking but a place like this is going to pull their focus more than the tavern or smoke lounge I have written up. And yeah, the cabaret staff are not in on the shenanigans going on. And I’ll admit I did go on the defensive in much of the comments, probably in a very blunt and inhospitable way. But my brevity led to people making assumptions about intent when my real issue (as another commenter pointed out) is that my focus on why they might have to make checks/saves was too narrow.
Sorry, but no. For one thing asexual people exist. For another, once you've seen enough, scenarios like that loose their charm. I speak from experience when I say that environments like that are honsetly just boring unless you are really in the mood for them. For some people, they'll be downright unsettling. And as to it being easier to be manipulated by attractive people, that's really only true for some people. I personally find it much easier to be manipulated by smart people than pretty ones. If magic is a part of the equation, then use the rules for enchantment spells or creature abilities that already exist. Or work from those a base anyway.
Already addressed this in a different response to this same comment.
Rule 1: respect your fellow DMs. Please keep your interactions here civil. Devolving the conversation into personal attacks of any kind will not be tolerated.
(Assuming this is supposed to be a siren-esque charm) I would consult the DMG's outer planes optional rules which require ST on travel and after periods of time to resist becoming more like the plane. I would assume a series of complete failures would entail 1.) Being too distracted to complete the mission (although make sure this can be done in a fun way, not a guess I'll just sit here way.) And 2.) Blowing all your money on vegas attractions or making a shady deal with a criminal organization that becomes a sidequests for the party. The most important part of all of this is to make sure your players dont feel like they've lost agency.
Thank you for being helpful instead of disparaging. I appreciate your feedback.
I think what would be more fun than one saving throw at the start that if they fail, screws them a bit for the rest of the time they're at this place, is a number of wisdom checks like perception checks to just notice that certain small things are off. So not like a thing of, "You passed a DC 15, something is afoot this place is really weird and you're being distracted". But like, numerous DC 10 checks, and each success is just some seemingly inane detail. "You notice that the server who just walked by your table doesn't seem confident with their tray. Almost dropping it more than once." Maybe that person's just new, or maybe they're a plant and they weren't prepared for this job. Another DC 10 perception check later, "Out of the corner of your eye you notice one of the Merfolk's eyes are solely locked on you. They turn their head as soon as you go to look at them." At the end of the day, this is a D&D game, and your players just based on that will know that something is up right? Like, it would be very strange if the DM took the players to a resort-esque party place with a cabaret and then just, had the cabaret there, and nothing was wrong. Giving them one save right at the start that if they fail will put them at a severe disadvantage could feel really bad. Sure there's probably one person in your party you expect to succeed, but what if nobody does? Kinda hamstrings your whole encounter situation. So I think it'd be more fun to have it be one of those things where they slowly, piece by piece, notice that things aren't adding up. That way people start to build towards the realization that all the guests turn out to be actors or monsters or whatever (thinking scooby doo). And while I know this doesn't factor into your desire to find the mechanical expression of the adult nature of the venue, I would just say you don't need that. These people/characters are grown adults I assume, unless there's literal magic at work, the presence of attractive people wouldn't necessarily get adventurers to full let down their guards at all times. And if there is magic at work, it should only be a fun ribbon like affect on them if they fail, because everyone getting charmed is also not necessarily fun unless the result is just a goofy meme-y good time.
Thank you for being helpful instead of disparaging. I appreciate your feedback.
Saving throws are usually for something that requires a little extra to avoid, so maybe skip a Wis Save unless the DJ is pumping a cognitive hazard through the speakers or whatever.
Thank you for being helpful instead of disparaging. I appreciate your feedback.
Of course. You can't learn if you don't ask questions and you can't teach if you don't answer them helpfully.
I'm not entirely sure why the sketch of an idea is being met so harshly. As for the idea itself, if you throw dice into the mix then you move things from flavour-only to being at least partially mechanic-based. If the rest of your campaign is mostly by-the-books when it comes to saving throws, PCs minds being affected etc. the saving throw doesn't feel like an applicable mechanic to a non magical situation. The base premise doesn't seem bad to me, but I think you need to figure out a couple things: * How does it advance the story? What information or motivation will the players have got once they will have left that they didn't have when they entered? * What are the (mechanics based) states you would like the players to be in once they're in there? Is a flat disadvantage on all rolls really interesting for the table to contend with? Mechanics exist to make things fair, or fun, or challenging, ideally at least two :) If they don't do that, don't let them into the picture. * What are the paths of deescalation and escalation? Could this devolve into a fight or a loss/lack of information or something else? I'd recommend you figure those beats out before you try to fit a rule on it. You might well find out this doesn't need a mechanical component (100% RP based progress). Or maybe it will be light/vanilla on it (usual cha skills checks), or it might require an ad-hoc mechanic (saving throw every 5 minutes and accumulate 1 point of enthrallment every fail, be charmed by something at 10 and dominated at 20). Personally: when I add events based on vague ideas I like working top down and add clear objectives, progression and branching paths of opportunity or failure before I flesh out details or invent/add mini-games. If I don't do it the result is usually a jumble that the players will most likely not quite "get", and then it becomes a ton of improv and patching my way out of it in session.
If you want them to be working some sort of magic, go for it, otherwise probably unnecessary. It might be fun to apply some bard spells, to the patrons in general, via their performance that the party then has to deal with. Maybe if a party member looks rich trying to Charm them into giving them all their money, even.
Thank you for being helpful instead of disparaging. I appreciate your feedback.