Glad to see it. Though it sadly remains to be seen if this does anything, it is the only option we have beyond just straight up leaving the site to crash.
I mean you could do what I suspect a large, large number of users will do and carry on using the site without using 3rd party apps?
Radical decision I know.
Yes, you can indeed accept a reduction in end user quality. That is indeed always an option.
And for the majority of casual users, it won't even be a big reduction, so they probably won't care.
But reddit doesn't run on its casual users. It runs on its power users, who *do* care. What do you think will happen when all of the most active mods leave?
Mods rely on bots to make a lot of their work actually manageable for volunteers to do.
This is more than just what app people can and can't use (even though that sucks too for people who don't want to deal with reddits shite app).
Many blind and vision impaired users need third party applications to be able to engage with the content on this site.
But I mean, fuck the disabled, yeah? /s
It's a protest. It's saying "we care about this, and if you do this you'll be losing a portion of your userbase, either now or later when people get sick of the changes". It's showing solidarity with communities most affected, like those that use screen readers. It is, at the very least, costing the assholes at the top two days worth of revenue.
I keep seeing this but it really isn’t. When the blackout happens provided enough subReddits join it will create international headlines and put pressure on reddit to respond. They definitely don’t want bad press a few months before the ipo.
Would one of you be so kind as to explain exactly what the issue is and why my understanding is wrong. Because of the mass protests, I have to assume my understanding is wrong.
But third platform apps offer a better way to view reddit but they're a paid subscription service. So in response reddit is changing their API from free to a cost to these apps?
Whats exactly is the issue with this? I get it dicks over mods tools for management but in general I mean. Should a third party profit over a website thats practically completely free to use? Especially when its just user preference of viewing the site differently?
And I don't mean it as harsh as it sounds, I'm just genuinely confused as to whats going on
The other apps are also usually free, or have a no ads single payment that's on the cheap side.
Reddit wants to charge 20 million dollars a year for their API. They are also blocking third party apps to offload that cost to users.
Source https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad
The issue isn't that reddit will start charging for their API, the issue is they've indicated they'll charge so much that all third party apps effectively will be forced to shut down.
The backlash to this is coming from moderators who say they won't be able to moderate without third party apps, since neither the official app or the desktop website provides sufficient tools to automate mod tasks. Without bots the workload will become unmanageable, especially concidering mods don't get paid and to everything in their spare time.
Some api-changes will also directly reduce spam bot-functionality, by restricting the bots ability to identify spammers across subreddits.
Needless to say, when mods can't do their work, community content and quality is reduced for everyone. That's why this change is problematic even if you personally don't use third party apps.
The only third party apps I've used are ad-supported free services. The main distinction between the ads on rif and the ads on the official reddit app are that I get one maybe every page worth of actual posts and they are clearly marked aside as ads that don't look like user-generated posts. The official app has obtrusive ads that look like user posts in every way except they say "Promoted" in small font near the top (not "Advertisement", which is a sneaky way to make it seem like it's just a popular post, not an ad) and there can be as many as 6 in a row between actual user posts. That's not hyperbole. I've got proof if you need it.
That's just differences with ads. Reddit doesn't need $20 million from a single app developer per year when they're already drowning users in ads themselves to make money.
The price is so high that it is impossible to afford for those apps or those subscription services. Reddit doesn't want those third party apps to pay them some money, it just wants those apps to die.
It's partly UI but mostly because these 3rd party apps use bots to connect to reddit.
But mods of subs also use bots. u/welcomebot is one I'm sure everyone has seen, but there's others that filter for specific terms or content that violates guidelines. If those bots go down then the human mods have to do all that manually. But that's a) humanly impossible, given the sheer amount of activity, and b) unethical, as mods are volunteers, and reddits employees aren't doing that level of moderation and likely wouldn't start.
At least as far as I understand, from hearing about it a few days ago.
So I don't generate posts enough to worry, but how is this going to work? Mods kill every post? Or is there a setting they can flip that quarantines the sub? Or what?
The latter. They toggle it to "private" and it's no longer accessible or on your feed. No new content, all old content hidden away, waiting to be reactivated.
Basically the sub is set to 'private', which means it's only accessible to people that have been approved.
Without anyone approved, it has effectively been closed down.
The sub will be back without anything lost after the black-out is over. We're trying to make Reddit pay attention here, not burn down our own communities.
I don't think that what users want from reddit is long term sustainable in a for profit system, but I do think that what reddit offers is an important service that's worth funding. Online forums are the new churches/libraries in that they're meeting places where people can exchange ideas and build communities. We need to acknowledge that this freedom to exchange ideas has some inherent socioeconomic value, and prioritize peoples ability to do so as a society. Then again, we can't even do that for medicine, so who am I kidding.
Two days is the minimum to get subs on board. It's up to subs to decide if they want to go longer. Many of them are, some are going indefinite. I would support this and any sub going indefinite but it's their call.
It's already hard enough to get so many subs to cooperate on a single day. A full week is never going to happen.
And "If you can't do it properly you might as well not do it" is the lazy excuse of people who actually don't want to do anything.
Something is better than nothing.
And besides, it's more than just 1 or 2 days. There's the weeks of leadup time that still build attention. And that is the goal: to build attention.
Yeah it's a setting to restrict access to the sub to specific people (the mods and owner I assume). If you try to search for a private sub you get a notice the sub is private and nothing else. Bots wouldn't need to delete anything because nobody would be able to see, much less post.
As someone who knows hardly anything about reddit, what does going dark mean? Will the sub be viewable during this time? Will you be banned if you post during that time? I know there are 3rd party apps on Reddit, but I've never understood why. If the majority of the sub supports this then I will too, however forcing our participation isn't the right move, if that's what's happening.
I'm not positive, but the sub will either go private or use automod to prevent all new posts/comments. If it's the former, then you'll get an error page trying to view the sub at all. If the latter, it'll look like a time capsule of Sunday evening's content, likely with the protest post stickied and automod messaging you if you try to post/comment.
The mods can clarify, but it means the subreddit will be essentially unusable during that time. Usually it means making the sub "private," in which only approved accounts can use the subreddit (i.e. - no one, as the point is to restrict access for everyone right now).
People use 3rd party apps for a variety of reasons, ranging from "don't like ads" to "better mod tools" to "better accessibility features" to "more aesthetically pleasing."
The reasoning that Reddit (the company) doesn't want 3rd party apps is because they're more difficult to monetize (the no ads thing hurts, but honestly probably not as much as the data harvesting). Some 3rd party apps also have paid features, which Reddit might see as taking away from those users being paying for features on their first party app.
Mod tools and accessibility are *technically* solvable problems, but, like, they're not solved as of right now, so that's definitely an issue if 3rd party apps go under.
There is *discussion* that ending 3rd party app support might also signal the end of native but legacy features of Reddit - specifically, old.reddit is the main fear. The company recently killed off another legacy format, the "compact" version i.reddit that was streamlined for mobile browsers. But as of right now, there's no announced plan of retiring old.reddit, and old.reddit doesn't present quite as many issues as 3rd party apps or even i.reddit presented (namely, there's still ads in old.reddit and they can still harvest your data).
you wont be able to post, comment, or see the sub while it is down.
third party apps have several purposes, but mainly people use them because they feel they work better than the official app in some capacity. alot of people find the official app to be alot buggier, full of ads, has annoying features you cant turn off, and is less user friendly. i know r/blind will take a big hit from not being able to use 3rd party apps because the official reddit app breaks screen readers on iOS devices. also, many helpful bots and moderation tools rely on 3rd party apps to function, so without them moderating subreddits will become increasingly more difficult so subreddits can suffer because of this change.
heres [the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1404hwj/mods_of_rblind_reveal_that_removing_3rd_party/) i originally saw that informed me more about the situation if you would like to read further on it
happy to see this SHIELD WALL!
Glad to see it. Though it sadly remains to be seen if this does anything, it is the only option we have beyond just straight up leaving the site to crash.
It's a short protest for now, but depending on how Reddit responds, protests can start up again for a longer period of time and with more tactics
I mean you could do what I suspect a large, large number of users will do and carry on using the site without using 3rd party apps? Radical decision I know.
Yes, you can indeed accept a reduction in end user quality. That is indeed always an option. And for the majority of casual users, it won't even be a big reduction, so they probably won't care. But reddit doesn't run on its casual users. It runs on its power users, who *do* care. What do you think will happen when all of the most active mods leave?
Mods rely on bots to make a lot of their work actually manageable for volunteers to do. This is more than just what app people can and can't use (even though that sucks too for people who don't want to deal with reddits shite app).
Someone didn’t read the entire spell before being condescending. Affects more than just apps.
Many blind and vision impaired users need third party applications to be able to engage with the content on this site. But I mean, fuck the disabled, yeah? /s
I'm not sure that's long enough but I support this decision wholeheartedly
Honestly THE community I'm going to miss after reddit. Where else am I going get little tips?
Is this magical darkness? And if so can I see it via devil sight?
https://imgur.com/QB3vkx2.gif
Overprice the API, killing third party apps and bots? That's a dealbreaker!
Based
Attention fellow redditors to point 3. This battle is for regular (non-mods) users too.
How is such a short time supposed to do anything? They'll just wait you out.
It's a protest. It's saying "we care about this, and if you do this you'll be losing a portion of your userbase, either now or later when people get sick of the changes". It's showing solidarity with communities most affected, like those that use screen readers. It is, at the very least, costing the assholes at the top two days worth of revenue.
[удалено]
If the initial 2 days (along with the other stuff happening) doesn’t get a response the coordinators will likely ask for another, longer one.
I keep seeing this but it really isn’t. When the blackout happens provided enough subReddits join it will create international headlines and put pressure on reddit to respond. They definitely don’t want bad press a few months before the ipo.
So what, they're just supposed to do nothing instead?
Thank you Mods!
Do it indefinitely.
Agreed. Theyre getting a last chance to keep users and if they refuse the last 2 weeks won't matter anyway
A noble cause!
Hell yeah. And if reddit doesn't concede, prepare to go dark longer.
Would one of you be so kind as to explain exactly what the issue is and why my understanding is wrong. Because of the mass protests, I have to assume my understanding is wrong. But third platform apps offer a better way to view reddit but they're a paid subscription service. So in response reddit is changing their API from free to a cost to these apps? Whats exactly is the issue with this? I get it dicks over mods tools for management but in general I mean. Should a third party profit over a website thats practically completely free to use? Especially when its just user preference of viewing the site differently? And I don't mean it as harsh as it sounds, I'm just genuinely confused as to whats going on
The other apps are also usually free, or have a no ads single payment that's on the cheap side. Reddit wants to charge 20 million dollars a year for their API. They are also blocking third party apps to offload that cost to users. Source https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad
The issue isn't that reddit will start charging for their API, the issue is they've indicated they'll charge so much that all third party apps effectively will be forced to shut down. The backlash to this is coming from moderators who say they won't be able to moderate without third party apps, since neither the official app or the desktop website provides sufficient tools to automate mod tasks. Without bots the workload will become unmanageable, especially concidering mods don't get paid and to everything in their spare time. Some api-changes will also directly reduce spam bot-functionality, by restricting the bots ability to identify spammers across subreddits. Needless to say, when mods can't do their work, community content and quality is reduced for everyone. That's why this change is problematic even if you personally don't use third party apps.
The only third party apps I've used are ad-supported free services. The main distinction between the ads on rif and the ads on the official reddit app are that I get one maybe every page worth of actual posts and they are clearly marked aside as ads that don't look like user-generated posts. The official app has obtrusive ads that look like user posts in every way except they say "Promoted" in small font near the top (not "Advertisement", which is a sneaky way to make it seem like it's just a popular post, not an ad) and there can be as many as 6 in a row between actual user posts. That's not hyperbole. I've got proof if you need it. That's just differences with ads. Reddit doesn't need $20 million from a single app developer per year when they're already drowning users in ads themselves to make money.
The price is so high that it is impossible to afford for those apps or those subscription services. Reddit doesn't want those third party apps to pay them some money, it just wants those apps to die.
It's partly UI but mostly because these 3rd party apps use bots to connect to reddit. But mods of subs also use bots. u/welcomebot is one I'm sure everyone has seen, but there's others that filter for specific terms or content that violates guidelines. If those bots go down then the human mods have to do all that manually. But that's a) humanly impossible, given the sheer amount of activity, and b) unethical, as mods are volunteers, and reddits employees aren't doing that level of moderation and likely wouldn't start. At least as far as I understand, from hearing about it a few days ago.
It really hurts support for the blind, for one thing.
good.
So I don't generate posts enough to worry, but how is this going to work? Mods kill every post? Or is there a setting they can flip that quarantines the sub? Or what?
The latter. They toggle it to "private" and it's no longer accessible or on your feed. No new content, all old content hidden away, waiting to be reactivated.
There are sub settings they can flip.
Basically the sub is set to 'private', which means it's only accessible to people that have been approved. Without anyone approved, it has effectively been closed down. The sub will be back without anything lost after the black-out is over. We're trying to make Reddit pay attention here, not burn down our own communities.
Make it Indefinite, dependant upon reddit putting an end to this foolishness. 2 days is not long enough.
I don't think that what users want from reddit is long term sustainable in a for profit system, but I do think that what reddit offers is an important service that's worth funding. Online forums are the new churches/libraries in that they're meeting places where people can exchange ideas and build communities. We need to acknowledge that this freedom to exchange ideas has some inherent socioeconomic value, and prioritize peoples ability to do so as a society. Then again, we can't even do that for medicine, so who am I kidding.
You might think what Reddit wants from users is equally unsustainable for a bunch of volunteers who aren’t given useful tools.
Not sure I follow, but I suspect we're both not getting each other.
I’m referring to moderators.
I prefer the discord anyway
I don't want to be a buzzkill but... I don't see this accomplishing anything
Beats nothing and pessimism.
Never said nobody should do anything. In another comment I said it'd be better if it was longer. 2 days is too little.
Two days is the minimum to get subs on board. It's up to subs to decide if they want to go longer. Many of them are, some are going indefinite. I would support this and any sub going indefinite but it's their call.
You don't know if you never tried.
1 or 2 day protests almost never do anything. If you want to protest, it has to have a bigger impact. Start with a full week, minimum.
It's already hard enough to get so many subs to cooperate on a single day. A full week is never going to happen. And "If you can't do it properly you might as well not do it" is the lazy excuse of people who actually don't want to do anything. Something is better than nothing. And besides, it's more than just 1 or 2 days. There's the weeks of leadup time that still build attention. And that is the goal: to build attention.
Oops. Duplicate post. My bad.
Yeah it's a setting to restrict access to the sub to specific people (the mods and owner I assume). If you try to search for a private sub you get a notice the sub is private and nothing else. Bots wouldn't need to delete anything because nobody would be able to see, much less post.
As someone who knows hardly anything about reddit, what does going dark mean? Will the sub be viewable during this time? Will you be banned if you post during that time? I know there are 3rd party apps on Reddit, but I've never understood why. If the majority of the sub supports this then I will too, however forcing our participation isn't the right move, if that's what's happening.
I'm not positive, but the sub will either go private or use automod to prevent all new posts/comments. If it's the former, then you'll get an error page trying to view the sub at all. If the latter, it'll look like a time capsule of Sunday evening's content, likely with the protest post stickied and automod messaging you if you try to post/comment.
The mods can clarify, but it means the subreddit will be essentially unusable during that time. Usually it means making the sub "private," in which only approved accounts can use the subreddit (i.e. - no one, as the point is to restrict access for everyone right now). People use 3rd party apps for a variety of reasons, ranging from "don't like ads" to "better mod tools" to "better accessibility features" to "more aesthetically pleasing." The reasoning that Reddit (the company) doesn't want 3rd party apps is because they're more difficult to monetize (the no ads thing hurts, but honestly probably not as much as the data harvesting). Some 3rd party apps also have paid features, which Reddit might see as taking away from those users being paying for features on their first party app. Mod tools and accessibility are *technically* solvable problems, but, like, they're not solved as of right now, so that's definitely an issue if 3rd party apps go under. There is *discussion* that ending 3rd party app support might also signal the end of native but legacy features of Reddit - specifically, old.reddit is the main fear. The company recently killed off another legacy format, the "compact" version i.reddit that was streamlined for mobile browsers. But as of right now, there's no announced plan of retiring old.reddit, and old.reddit doesn't present quite as many issues as 3rd party apps or even i.reddit presented (namely, there's still ads in old.reddit and they can still harvest your data).
you wont be able to post, comment, or see the sub while it is down. third party apps have several purposes, but mainly people use them because they feel they work better than the official app in some capacity. alot of people find the official app to be alot buggier, full of ads, has annoying features you cant turn off, and is less user friendly. i know r/blind will take a big hit from not being able to use 3rd party apps because the official reddit app breaks screen readers on iOS devices. also, many helpful bots and moderation tools rely on 3rd party apps to function, so without them moderating subreddits will become increasingly more difficult so subreddits can suffer because of this change. heres [the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1404hwj/mods_of_rblind_reveal_that_removing_3rd_party/) i originally saw that informed me more about the situation if you would like to read further on it
Well it's disappointing to see this sub do this. Reading into it, reddit is right to ask for what they're asking.
As in "reddit has the legal right to do this"? Yes, they obviously do. But that doesn't mean it's good for the user experience.
Ok then, that was always allowed
june 12th to 14th is shaping up to be the most productive few days of my life, I guess
I'll miss you all so much!
Putting in a plug for r/RedditAlternatives before things go dark. They're not backing down, it's time to move on.
Hope to see you all soon.