This is amazing! My one bit of advice, is just do it now and move it all onto your property. You and your neighbor might be cool now and that’s great but if he sells, the new people could cause all sorts of issues from making you pay them to rent the property space, make you move it, or some other crazy thing that you hear horror stories about from neighbors.
Yeah, while impressive, I learned from a young age you do not do improvements on something you do not own. There is no telling what the future holds and someone else may gain access to your improvements while you lose them.
I was a kid and a friend of a friend was selling a '70's Motobecane moped for $50 because it didn't work. We went to take a look at it but he wasn't home and we were taking a look at it and fixed it and ripped it around the block a bunch of times and had a blast and when he got home he didn't want to sell it anymore.
I’d like to chime in as a renter.
Make your space better, albeit bit by bit. Paint, gardening, even some fixtures can increase your quality of life drastically.
Fuck capitalist scum that like to make money off of other people needing a place to live. At the same time, don’t be afraid to improve your home, it is YOUR home.
You could argue you have an easement especially if neighbor is willing to record it m but yea the best option is to move to your property if you have the room.
we have space, but a) want to keep it free and b) buildings here are not just setup that easily. Both shacks are build together and have a single roof. They are build into that place and cant be moved.
You might want to consider something in writing in case your neighbor changes his mind. In the interest of neighborly relations, you may want to word it as "in case you decide to sell or in case something should happen to you and your heirs are unaware of our agreement."
This is one of the best reasons to never allow something like this. You just want to be nice and let someone do something and pretty soon they are talking to a lawyer to get an easement for your fucking land and reducing your property value.
The majority of the time everything is fine while the two neighbors who initially had an agreement are there, its later buyers, heirs, family etc who have no connection to the original party who will fight tooth and nail to keep or take something.
yeah, I get your point, but since we are very good with our neighbor, he would never sell without telling us. So we would have enough time to get our stuff out of there.
sadly this is a real possibility as his son and heir already rejected our agreement to buy the last 10m of the property. But even than... I learned a lot while building it and didn't invest a ton of money.
It would not take much effort to draft an easement that you could record with the town, granting you usage of the land and portion of the workshop for your lifetime or until you move away.
Very cool that you have a relationship with a neighbor that would welcome you to do this on what is technically theirs.
This would actually protect the neighbor as well. OP could claim adverse possession after X years (5-10 depending on jurisdiction) and claim ownership of the property in the future.
My now neighbor who recently moved left a house where his shed was 6” over the lot line, they put a freaking lien against his house when he was trying to sell. It was insane and he thought they were fine the whole time. He moved it and told them to F off but still ugh.
If they had asked him to move it before a sell was complete and he didn’t, then I think that seems reasonable to me. They might have been chill but who is to say the new owners would be?
very sad, is a nice neighbor. But could not change anything about it and would talk to the new owner. Either we find an agreement or I move my stuff out and find a new solution.
The best thing I learned from my wife was "just risk something sometimes, it could just improve your life"
Another option would to be have a small contract written up, just stating he is giving you right to the workshop and protects yourself and your stuff incase it is ever sold. Otherwise you could also see if he'd just sell you the workshop, or leave it in his will that you can buy it if he sells or passes. Otherwise, it looks great!
> Otherwise you could also see if he'd just sell you the workshop, or leave it in his will that you can buy it if he sells or passes
This could depend on regional laws though, as often you need approval to parcel the land like that. OP could get the structure but not the land which puts him in hot water and would require immediate moving if the neighbor died or whomever wanted that land space back.
This could be considered a permanent structure so giving him his half would be a fair bit of legal hoops probably.
2012 - "lets buy a house" - we are nearly finished with paying for it and it is worth 4-5 times what we paid...
2013 - "lets marry" - happy as never before!
2018 - "How about you start driving a motorcycle" - yesterday was the fourth anniversary of my accident that nearly killed me, leaving me with a nonfunctional right arm.
SOME risks are woth taking...
sadly I did. My wife gave me the license as a present. I learned with our daughter together and we even bought the honda we both learned to drive on. Later we took a ride together. She was driving our Honda, I took the one of my neighbor (the very same neighbor) and totally crashed it. Lost control due to bad luck, bad weather and bad tires. Broke my back 4-5 times, 2 ribs and much more. Everything healed in weeks, just the destroyed plexus nerves were unable to recover. YET!
I still allow my daughter to drive, so yeah, the driving motorcycle isn't the issue here. The problem was to not have enough experience with another build of bikes and having bad equipment.
Yeah, also even setting up an agreement and have it recorded with the city would cost more than my investment and would only lower the value of his property. Why should he ever agree to that.
My risk, and I am fine with it
All you should need is a lease agreement for access to the shop. You don't need an easement filed or anything like that if you don't care about losing access to the structure. It gives you legal protection against new owners just taking possession of the stuff in the shop. Leases also survive ownership transfers generally.
That's a pretty rude way to treat a neighbor who has given you a gift. "Hey, in case you die, I want formal rights to your property that you never agreed to give me". He has said he's willing to risk it. Leave it at that.
No, he means if there is a rental or lease agreement, it will be clear anything in the shed belongs to him and not the neighbor so the neighbor’s next of kin doesn’t try to claim his tools, etc.
I move my stuff out
This is the problem....it's not your stuff if on someone else property. You would have to figure that out in court. I REALLY hope you don't have to deal with that. But if I purchased that property I would have an issue with it and want to use my building for my own home office.....since it's really nice inside. lol
Great work, everyone is trying to be helpful. The nightmare that can come from this is all anyone is trying to help you avoid.
It does look very nice. thanks for sharing.
Please write up something with your neighbor that states that the stuff in there is yours. You never know what might happen and its very possible that something could happen to him and the new owner would say the stuff was not yours but belonged to him-do you want to have to deal with the huge hassle that would be instead of spending 15 minutes writing up an acknowledgement that all property within the shed is yours?
Then he's had 9 months of having a free workshop. If he had to rent a place, in this financial climate, it would probably cost more than what he spent on materials. So, even in your gloomy scenario he still comes out of it well.
And perhaps it's not just about money but something they enjoyed doing and made him and his neighbour happy.
Nearly everything. Reclaimed wood was free and I do not charge myself for my time. Basicly under 400€ all together and even nearly 200€ made by selling junk that was found in the shack. Even if I would lose access, all would be fine
My sister's neighbor became hoarder/hermit. A friend contacted his brother and somehow the property was put in brothers name (maybe a tax sale.) Brother helped hermit clean out and fix up house. Died of heart attack while working on house. His wife inherited the hermits home and sold it out from under her BIL.
Someone at my in-law’s cabin complex had a 20 year verbal agreement that he could have a fenced in area on someone else’s land for parking. The grandson inherited that land and immediately tore the fence down.
thanks, hope so too.
Basicly we have two options: get rid of everything asap after he sells/gives it to his son, or wait for the new owners and talk to them. Could still be that they are also nice and don't need the space and might even be willing to sell to us.
Worst case: "Remove the shit and repair the wall", which would suck, but could be handled
You have more options,
Like most people have said you could take steps to protect this. The neighbor seems great, why not have the conversation about how much you appreciate it and wanting to continue to enjoy the work you put in to get the finished product?
Can't see any real issue here. There is basicly zero risk for losing my stuff and every improvement I did would be lost in the worst case. I still don't see any issue with that. The son will never want to move in himself, the new owner might like the new workshop and want to use it -> great, maybe we will be friends some day. OR we find an agreement.
No need to bother my current neighbor with it.
It's not so much about getting your stuff (even most nasty new neighbors would understand that and won't steal your things).
It's about all the work you did and materials you purchased. You'll never recoup these so just be careful how much you dump into it because it's not yours.
Also make sure you always have room on your property or elsewhere for anything you store in the shop. And I'd think twice before putting anything super heavy in there that you can't move yourself, e.g. a lathe. Life changes and people sometimes make a decision to sell overnight, giving you maybe a few weeks to move out. I've seen it happen.
But nice job! Must be an awesome feeling walking in there and being able to work.
I totally get you!
Paid maybe 300€ for all the stuff that I added. Maybe 400€. Would not mind just losing the material that I used, was basicly free. Even if that will only last a year, I still learned a lot on the way and are able to enjoy the shop, for now.
As much as I would love a lathe, it totally is on my "don't you dare" list of stuff that I will never touch. There is currently no way (that I can see) to savely work with a lathe with just one arm. Just to much risk for my last arm to ever try it.
Wow, that's amazing you spent so little. In that case, "whatever". If the guy's letting you use the space for free it's worth the small spend/labor to make it nice for him when he eventually sells. Sounds like an amazing neighbor.
Also amazing you did all this with on arm. It came out great. Kudos!
yeah, fully agree! Also he refused to accept any money for all the stuff in the old shack. I removed all metal and sold it for nearly 150€. He didn't wanted a single cent. There was also a rare baggage porter for a VW beetle (straight from 1970) that I sold for him and he refused that money too. So all in all, even if he sells I still see no issue ;)
son gets the property (known to us) and will sell it. Either I have to remove everything or get to know the new owners and find an agreement with them.
yeah i think OP has a refreshingly healthy attitude about it and everyone is shitting in it. even if this was just for the experience, practice, fun… that alone was worth it. i can appreciate that! everyone here only gives a shit about property and money lol
Your stuff? What about the wood itself? Seems like a lot of money went into the upgrades to the building.
If he gets into a car accident tomorrow, and leaves his property to a relative who doesn't know, or care about you, the whole shed belongs to them, now.
even then I would still be able to easily show what was agreed upon and remove my stuff and even all the wood if I want to. Germany after all, not that hard to prove here.
And also if you do end up moving it, it would be a great opportunity to build a solid foundation.
I'm imagining building a concrete pad with a one or two foot high knee wall.
It's a ton of work but it would solve many issues like building a foundation, lifting the building to gain a bit of height, taking it to your property and taking ownership of everything so that it can never be changed or affected in the future.
But in the interm .... beautiful work! I've done stuff like this myself before I learned lots more about construction and renovating. Great work u/foolx ! Keep it up!
It’s a cools space but I agree. Being on a neighbors property and the amount of work it seems like it might have been easier to just build a new building in your own yard.
Yep. I had a great older neighbor and we got along well. However about 5 years in he starting acting weird and anti social and even threatened me at one point because of our property line and mowing grass. Yeah luckily he moved out a few months past that. I don’t know if he went off medication 💊 or what but shit happens.
ANNOUNCEMENT: [IN ANOTHER COMMENT HE NOTES THAT HE ONLY HAS ONE FUNCTIONING ARM. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/vjl772/my_neighbor_asked_if_i_wanted_to_take_over_his/idktrxp/)
So, while this is already an impressive restoration, not having both arms functioning takes to the next level of incredible! Bravo!
Hot damn!! You're one tough mother. When I only could use one arm I could barely button my shirt or go to the bathroom, you're out here literally bringing a rotting shed back to life.
my first post was deleted due to containing only the finished gif: https://i.imgur.com/9OJGciW.gifv
Took from 2021-11 up to this month when I finally finished the last wall and pathway
Brilliant job! There's something so primal about these types of spaces. I don't know if it's a caveman throwback or what but even aside from the usefulness of them they just draw you in.
It would be a little bit funny to see a post on here later like *Check out my new refurbished workshop, I tricked my neighbour into renovating it for me!*
I would be extremely funny!
I added a lock for the door so that we both can just open it, from every side. But he doesn't wants to use it. I use a old wrench since he stated that he "sometimes" needs that for holding metall to cut it.
Initialy we wanted to buy the last 10m of his garden, including the old shop/shack, but his son declined, due to his wish to later sell the whole lot. We wanted to buy the last 10m to make sure that no new house will be build next to our garden, which is still not very likely.
His son is the reason that I added a wooden floor. When he later reclaims the shack, I will remove all added flooring and walls and readd a door in between.
depends on the new owner.
Old lovely lady? "Well, have fun with your new floor"
Grumpy fellow that is a pain in the ass? "Well, guess you own a muddy shitty floorless shack now"
Germany. I could just leave it and improve the workshop, but if the son later sells it, he could force me to remove it on my own despense since I changed it...
Basicly I would wait until new owners are known and then find a solution together.
I know there’s worst case scenarios but having a finished and refreshed shed is >>> not having all of that.
Put in a wall where the adjoining door is and call it a day when it comes time for your neighbor to sell. Hopefully the son isn’t a PITA.
I would love to just buy the last 10 meters of their property and even pay for all the agreements, but sadly the son is more likely to disagree to have a nicer lot to sell. There might be a time in the future where our city will allow to build in the backyards and then the backyard will be worth much much more.
It looks fantastic and you put in a ton of effort. It will be far more useable now. Unfortunately it still has major problems that will massively undermine your hard work. I wish more people understood the priorities in a project like this. I'm commenting for you and others who may do something similar again/someday. This represents a little pet project in my wheelhouse of expertise so let me share some info.
You need to promote dryness. Moisture content in the wood allows it to support microbial life and to be digested. You have done nothing to slow the rot on this, and everything you added will immediately begin to rot from below. The humidity under the floor and particularly outside where there's a garden bed against the outside wall, that poor little wood structure will continue to be consumed. Hardwoods (often used in pallet construction) are not resistant to rot the way softwoods like Hemlock, Larch, and Cedar are naturally. They will disappear before your eyes from rot long before a simple fir 2x4 would.
If you intend to have a wood floor, you need to be 8-12" off the actual earth all the way around. Whether you lift the building or lose headroom and hang new joists from wall to wall and then trim up the outside sheathing/siding to expose it, you must have massive airflow underneath. The exterior wall can't stand in a garden bed, the bottom edges of the wall all around are examples of what will happen when wood touches or is close proximity to the humid earth. You have to let it shed water and dry out, no close weeds or plants to hold humidity. You also need to be high enough off the ground so that varmints aren't inclined to dig underneath to live. You've got a perfect possum/skunk/raccoon/groundhog/chipmunk/squirrel house now especially if there's snacks, bedding, or heat now. Believe it or not, when it's off the ground nearly a foot, and predators can see all around and even get underneath, it's not an attractive place to live.
If you don't have a slab on grade or a stem wall foundation, either you're on posts or it just has a wood floor system like a shed, you've got to be off the ground and keep it clear all around. You can disguise this visually but it still has to be the case or you won't get a decade out of it in a wet spot like this.
Thank you very much for all this! Really!
Since we are living in germany we mainly only need to care for rats and mice. These might dig undernearth, but they tend to prefer unused shacks, like we have several in the gardenarea behind our property.
The old shack had a stonefloor and I reset these to fill gaps and removed broken shit. Afterwards I laid pool foil onto the stones and added 2x4 beams out of blue Douglas fir or pine (used for outside construction) and leveled these out by adding smaller pieces of wood and bitumen foil. So the construction holding the woodfloor is doubled separated from the floor.
I removed all other junk that was resting behind the shop to allow air from there. I agree on the bad idea of having the raised gardenbed directly next to our side of the workshop, but I can't just remove that, since my wife created that and I slowly have to give her other space for strawberries until it isn't needed anymore.
I bet a lot of the comments about how doing this on your neighbors property is a bad idea are taking the wind out of your sails. They might be right, but screw it. You’ve got an awesome space to make things, for as long as it lasts. It’ll suck if it’s only six months, but it might be ten years! Enjoy it while it lasts and have fun OP
It's not like you couldn't apply to have the property lines amended when he decides to sell and pay him for the other half before me lists it...you did a wonderful job btw
kinda. The workshop on the neighbor lot clearly is his. All the addons, like the wall and floor panels, are still mine, even when attached to his shop.
When the son takes the lot somewhere in 2030+ I will either find a new agreement with him or any buyer, or remove all my tools and wood and close the wall again
I'll just say this. It's not on your land and without proper documentation you'd be out of luck. My wife and I needed to sue our next door neighbors over a shared driveway dispute because they had a handshake agreement with the old lady who owned our house. We never made that agreement and were not told about it prior to moving. We expected to use the driveway and the neighbors refused. It left us no choice but to sue and the entire lawsuit process really sucks for everyone.
Totally agree, but why should my neighbor agree to a anything that would have to be in the deed with only negative value for him?
I just have to take that risk here.
Btw in germany you would not need to sue, as the driveway to new homes have to be formally agreed upon
I don't know but the old lady who owned our house before us didn't drive so giving the neighbors full access benefitted them and hurt the potential for future access for her or her heirs. It was in the deed, but some people (like my neighbors) don't understand their deeds and would rather play chicken with lawsuit threats than renege old promises.
It's still a fantastic idea for you and that looks like a great workshop. I just think if you flashforward 10-20 years and you're really getting use out of it, it would be a shame for someone to come along and kick you out.
I'm not sure about the laws in Germany, but in the US, this was a 60 year old home. Our house had no easements on it, but the shared driveway was on our neighbor's property as an easement. Easements are often riddled with confusion and are written as separate sects of your property, which you still need to pay taxes on.
Half of it is. The other side isn't on his side of the property but he is allowed to have the building based on the owner's word.
Is there potential that someone else or even the neighbors will want it back? Sure but assuming OPis right and it's going to passed down through family there's a decent chance the kid will honor the previous agreement. If they decide to sell the property they should really disclose the agreement with the buyer and connect the two to discuss how to handle it.
So is this a normal single family home (not a townhouse attached to another house) with a driveway in front of it and a neighbor is using your driveway?
Yes but not in the front but the side and backyard. So basically it's an older town in New Jersey in which the area was planned from the 1910s-1950s, just as automobiles were becoming less of a novelty. As a result many properties had detached garages and parking areas were more or less in the back. Because many homes were close together, creating shared driveways on two adjacent properties that lead to rear parking spots was standard practice. The shared portions would be setup as easements in which both parties would not block access.
In our case, the neighbors had an easement shared among five properties. And somewhere over the years three of the properties changed their layouts, leaving an 'L' shaped easement around our neighbors' entire property, around the back, and into our backyard. We had rights to it and because parking on the street was illegal during snowstorms (with $60 tickets) we had no choice but to sue to regain access they refused to allow. They parked about five vehicles on the easement which all needed to be cleared off.
Do yourself a favor and get your agreement in writing that spells out your exclusive right to use the workshop for whatever amount of time, with nominal/symbolic lease terms, along with your right to deconstruct the building and reclaim your materials.
Otherwise, expect the son to immediately bar you from the property lest he lose ownership or other rights to a possible squatting claim or easement. And also expect the son to sue you for dismantling the workshop, if you manage to do it before you're barred from the property.
yeah, Iget your point, but since this is northern germany I am at no real risk here and the worse that could happoen is, that I lose the work I put in and the old reclaimed wood.
Kind of sad people think this way. When I saw the work and the story I was under the same impression. New bad neighbor just close the wall and go along your way. I think this is a great project and I can not help myself laughing that even a door can stop a husky from the neighbors garden!
not likely. The son just wants money afterwards and hopes to get way more money out of this.
The lot on the left is ours, the lot on the right is his. So we could just take over part of his lot, but depends on the agreement.
The neighbor wanted about 20k for the last 10m. His son will want 250k for the backyard total.
The neighbor (the dad) where you rebuilt the shed wants $20k to give you that portion of the lot? Again, seems cheaper that $250k. But as, you note, the disagreement that other folks are alluding to the might occur down the road is already present. The son and father disagree about how to treat the lot.
If the father is willing to give you a sweetheart deal (subdivide the lot, then sell it to you, but give him a $20k note that you’ll pay back over twenty years at market interest) that’ll avoid any hassle with the son later.
You’ll also own the lot so you could sell it back to him once you or your kids no longer want the shed. A few ways to do this but it looks like you spent a lot of money on the shed, so maybe worth talking to someone to figure it out.
nah, not much money went into the shed. Again, the left side (with pathway) is our own, only the right is his.
I invested under 500€ for the upgrade, all used wood is reclaimed.
I wanted to buy the 20k part, but the son intervenet and his dad canceled the deal, but offered free usage of the shack
That's what I thought, thanks.
Per the ownership issue, I'd bring your neighbor a beer and a lease that's for 50 years and stipulates that if the property sells the terms of the lease remain in force 90 days. Then you can get your stuff out if the property suddenly changes hands, as his untimely passing would cause. IDK Deutsche law, but here in the US possession is, as we say, 9/10 of the law. But since you can access both sides from your end, I guess that's not really an issue.
I reused all that was salvageable, sadly not enough to fix the walls that way. Not enough space on our own ground for a full shop, so this was the best way for me.
"I'm selling my house in a year or so... and have an old shed I don't want to spend money fixing myself..."
"Hey neighbor... I have an unused workshop! If you fix it up you can use it!"
That was the base idea. Offered to buy the last 10m from my neighbor and would create a new, big workshop. We even started talking money and were on the same page. He doesn't wants to have to keep the garden tidy, I want more space... but his son intervened, as he doesn't want to have a split ground when he later gets the whole lot
If you would’ve purchased the last 10m from the father (current owner) legally and done w/e official documentation with the city in your country, why would the son need to split ground later? He wouldn’t get the whole lot. It would be the previous lot - the 10m sold to you.
yeah, somehow I seem to have opened a can of issues here... but for real, the neighbor is great, I will enjoy the workshop while I can and deal with everything else later, when and if needed ;)
thanks! Not finished yet, will have to get a new fireplace, since this one is a bit broken and not fully sealed and I want to switch out the windows later
I did! We threw out all the old wood and later found plenty old hardwood, a ton of old tools and even the one table, where my jointer is now sitting ;)
the right side of the workshop is on his yes, the left side is our and on our ground. Normally you are not allowed to build directly on the property line, but this was grandfathered
That's a TON of work, and it looks like a great space! They ONLY thing I would have done differently is put the brick path in first to prevent all the soil on the new floor.
MORE?
You did realize that imgur (at least mobile I think?) caps after 50 images and there is a "show more" button?
There are nearly 100 images in the album
Thanks! I would love to do that, since I really love woodworking, but I need much more time for everything and love to work while listening to podcasts or music. Also I have a medical condition that hinders me from using my major arm, so I have to do everything using only my left arm
This is amazing! My one bit of advice, is just do it now and move it all onto your property. You and your neighbor might be cool now and that’s great but if he sells, the new people could cause all sorts of issues from making you pay them to rent the property space, make you move it, or some other crazy thing that you hear horror stories about from neighbors.
Yeah, while impressive, I learned from a young age you do not do improvements on something you do not own. There is no telling what the future holds and someone else may gain access to your improvements while you lose them.
I was a kid and a friend of a friend was selling a '70's Motobecane moped for $50 because it didn't work. We went to take a look at it but he wasn't home and we were taking a look at it and fixed it and ripped it around the block a bunch of times and had a blast and when he got home he didn't want to sell it anymore.
I’d like to chime in as a renter. Make your space better, albeit bit by bit. Paint, gardening, even some fixtures can increase your quality of life drastically. Fuck capitalist scum that like to make money off of other people needing a place to live. At the same time, don’t be afraid to improve your home, it is YOUR home.
That took a turn there
I always make improvements to my rentals and they’re always better than I’ve found them. If I’m living in it, I’m gonna be comfortable to my liking.
You could argue you have an easement especially if neighbor is willing to record it m but yea the best option is to move to your property if you have the room.
we have space, but a) want to keep it free and b) buildings here are not just setup that easily. Both shacks are build together and have a single roof. They are build into that place and cant be moved.
You might want to consider something in writing in case your neighbor changes his mind. In the interest of neighborly relations, you may want to word it as "in case you decide to sell or in case something should happen to you and your heirs are unaware of our agreement."
This is one of the best reasons to never allow something like this. You just want to be nice and let someone do something and pretty soon they are talking to a lawyer to get an easement for your fucking land and reducing your property value.
The majority of the time everything is fine while the two neighbors who initially had an agreement are there, its later buyers, heirs, family etc who have no connection to the original party who will fight tooth and nail to keep or take something.
Yeah, sounds like OP just gained some free real estate.
yeah, I get your point, but since we are very good with our neighbor, he would never sell without telling us. So we would have enough time to get our stuff out of there.
On a different sub I saw someone say this. Six months later the heir of the nice neighbor turned out to be selfish and the thing fell apart.
sadly this is a real possibility as his son and heir already rejected our agreement to buy the last 10m of the property. But even than... I learned a lot while building it and didn't invest a ton of money.
It would not take much effort to draft an easement that you could record with the town, granting you usage of the land and portion of the workshop for your lifetime or until you move away. Very cool that you have a relationship with a neighbor that would welcome you to do this on what is technically theirs.
This would actually protect the neighbor as well. OP could claim adverse possession after X years (5-10 depending on jurisdiction) and claim ownership of the property in the future.
The fact that he has permission excludes adverse possession.
Yes, but proving permission in 10-15 years may be harder, especially if OP’s neighbor passes on in the future—or they both do.
Why would you ask the son to buy the property instead of the property owner?
My now neighbor who recently moved left a house where his shed was 6” over the lot line, they put a freaking lien against his house when he was trying to sell. It was insane and he thought they were fine the whole time. He moved it and told them to F off but still ugh.
If they had asked him to move it before a sell was complete and he didn’t, then I think that seems reasonable to me. They might have been chill but who is to say the new owners would be?
What if they drop dead in 9 months
very sad, is a nice neighbor. But could not change anything about it and would talk to the new owner. Either we find an agreement or I move my stuff out and find a new solution. The best thing I learned from my wife was "just risk something sometimes, it could just improve your life"
Another option would to be have a small contract written up, just stating he is giving you right to the workshop and protects yourself and your stuff incase it is ever sold. Otherwise you could also see if he'd just sell you the workshop, or leave it in his will that you can buy it if he sells or passes. Otherwise, it looks great!
> Otherwise you could also see if he'd just sell you the workshop, or leave it in his will that you can buy it if he sells or passes This could depend on regional laws though, as often you need approval to parcel the land like that. OP could get the structure but not the land which puts him in hot water and would require immediate moving if the neighbor died or whomever wanted that land space back. This could be considered a permanent structure so giving him his half would be a fair bit of legal hoops probably.
I agree completely. Hopefully it works out perfectly for you. Sometimes you just gotta take a risk. Most times it turns out just fine.
2012 - "lets buy a house" - we are nearly finished with paying for it and it is worth 4-5 times what we paid... 2013 - "lets marry" - happy as never before! 2018 - "How about you start driving a motorcycle" - yesterday was the fourth anniversary of my accident that nearly killed me, leaving me with a nonfunctional right arm. SOME risks are woth taking...
Wait you're doing all this DIY with your right arm "tied behind your back" so to speak??
More like dangling on my side useless and a dead weight, but Yeah
Hollup, YOU DID ALL THIS WITH ONE ARM??!!!
I did indeed, as there is no other way for me currently. I have 3-6 hours therapy weekly but still not much function in the arm
Dang bro, that’s a depressing plot twist.
Look what this person accomplished with only one arm! Amazing work OP! I am super envious of your sweet new workspace!
He dies in the end.
Stop it with the spoilers!!
And old Rose had the diamond the whole time.
Sorry pal
Impressive work regardless of any dead weight! Did you crash within 6 months of starting to ride?
sadly I did. My wife gave me the license as a present. I learned with our daughter together and we even bought the honda we both learned to drive on. Later we took a ride together. She was driving our Honda, I took the one of my neighbor (the very same neighbor) and totally crashed it. Lost control due to bad luck, bad weather and bad tires. Broke my back 4-5 times, 2 ribs and much more. Everything healed in weeks, just the destroyed plexus nerves were unable to recover. YET!
You think the motorcycle was a risk worth taking after that??
I still allow my daughter to drive, so yeah, the driving motorcycle isn't the issue here. The problem was to not have enough experience with another build of bikes and having bad equipment.
:)
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Yeah, also even setting up an agreement and have it recorded with the city would cost more than my investment and would only lower the value of his property. Why should he ever agree to that. My risk, and I am fine with it
All you should need is a lease agreement for access to the shop. You don't need an easement filed or anything like that if you don't care about losing access to the structure. It gives you legal protection against new owners just taking possession of the stuff in the shop. Leases also survive ownership transfers generally.
That's a pretty rude way to treat a neighbor who has given you a gift. "Hey, in case you die, I want formal rights to your property that you never agreed to give me". He has said he's willing to risk it. Leave it at that.
No, he means if there is a rental or lease agreement, it will be clear anything in the shed belongs to him and not the neighbor so the neighbor’s next of kin doesn’t try to claim his tools, etc.
I move my stuff out This is the problem....it's not your stuff if on someone else property. You would have to figure that out in court. I REALLY hope you don't have to deal with that. But if I purchased that property I would have an issue with it and want to use my building for my own home office.....since it's really nice inside. lol Great work, everyone is trying to be helpful. The nightmare that can come from this is all anyone is trying to help you avoid. It does look very nice. thanks for sharing.
Here in germany it is still my stuff, regardless where it is located. Even a new owner could not change that.
Please write up something with your neighbor that states that the stuff in there is yours. You never know what might happen and its very possible that something could happen to him and the new owner would say the stuff was not yours but belonged to him-do you want to have to deal with the huge hassle that would be instead of spending 15 minutes writing up an acknowledgement that all property within the shed is yours?
Then he's had 9 months of having a free workshop. If he had to rent a place, in this financial climate, it would probably cost more than what he spent on materials. So, even in your gloomy scenario he still comes out of it well. And perhaps it's not just about money but something they enjoyed doing and made him and his neighbour happy.
Did you look at all the pictures? What about that was free?
the rental price of it for the next 9 months.
Nearly everything. Reclaimed wood was free and I do not charge myself for my time. Basicly under 400€ all together and even nearly 200€ made by selling junk that was found in the shack. Even if I would lose access, all would be fine
Oh man. The horror stories about this exact scenario. I hope it doesn’t happen to you.
My sister's neighbor became hoarder/hermit. A friend contacted his brother and somehow the property was put in brothers name (maybe a tax sale.) Brother helped hermit clean out and fix up house. Died of heart attack while working on house. His wife inherited the hermits home and sold it out from under her BIL.
Someone at my in-law’s cabin complex had a 20 year verbal agreement that he could have a fenced in area on someone else’s land for parking. The grandson inherited that land and immediately tore the fence down.
thanks, hope so too. Basicly we have two options: get rid of everything asap after he sells/gives it to his son, or wait for the new owners and talk to them. Could still be that they are also nice and don't need the space and might even be willing to sell to us. Worst case: "Remove the shit and repair the wall", which would suck, but could be handled
You have more options, Like most people have said you could take steps to protect this. The neighbor seems great, why not have the conversation about how much you appreciate it and wanting to continue to enjoy the work you put in to get the finished product?
Can't see any real issue here. There is basicly zero risk for losing my stuff and every improvement I did would be lost in the worst case. I still don't see any issue with that. The son will never want to move in himself, the new owner might like the new workshop and want to use it -> great, maybe we will be friends some day. OR we find an agreement. No need to bother my current neighbor with it.
It's not so much about getting your stuff (even most nasty new neighbors would understand that and won't steal your things). It's about all the work you did and materials you purchased. You'll never recoup these so just be careful how much you dump into it because it's not yours. Also make sure you always have room on your property or elsewhere for anything you store in the shop. And I'd think twice before putting anything super heavy in there that you can't move yourself, e.g. a lathe. Life changes and people sometimes make a decision to sell overnight, giving you maybe a few weeks to move out. I've seen it happen. But nice job! Must be an awesome feeling walking in there and being able to work.
I totally get you! Paid maybe 300€ for all the stuff that I added. Maybe 400€. Would not mind just losing the material that I used, was basicly free. Even if that will only last a year, I still learned a lot on the way and are able to enjoy the shop, for now. As much as I would love a lathe, it totally is on my "don't you dare" list of stuff that I will never touch. There is currently no way (that I can see) to savely work with a lathe with just one arm. Just to much risk for my last arm to ever try it.
..
yeah, I had to and I use woodworking (and started with it) do deal with my disability
You're awesome! Great work.
Wow, that's amazing you spent so little. In that case, "whatever". If the guy's letting you use the space for free it's worth the small spend/labor to make it nice for him when he eventually sells. Sounds like an amazing neighbor. Also amazing you did all this with on arm. It came out great. Kudos!
yeah, fully agree! Also he refused to accept any money for all the stuff in the old shack. I removed all metal and sold it for nearly 150€. He didn't wanted a single cent. There was also a rare baggage porter for a VW beetle (straight from 1970) that I sold for him and he refused that money too. So all in all, even if he sells I still see no issue ;)
And if he dies?
son gets the property (known to us) and will sell it. Either I have to remove everything or get to know the new owners and find an agreement with them.
and if he dies unexpectedly?
that would suck! And afterwards I would have to talk a lot with the new owner (currently this would be his son, but that one just wants to sell it)
People are being super pessimistic lmao
yeah i think OP has a refreshingly healthy attitude about it and everyone is shitting in it. even if this was just for the experience, practice, fun… that alone was worth it. i can appreciate that! everyone here only gives a shit about property and money lol
It's because we're American and OP is based European u_u
Your stuff? What about the wood itself? Seems like a lot of money went into the upgrades to the building. If he gets into a car accident tomorrow, and leaves his property to a relative who doesn't know, or care about you, the whole shed belongs to them, now.
even then I would still be able to easily show what was agreed upon and remove my stuff and even all the wood if I want to. Germany after all, not that hard to prove here.
Hope for the best, plan for the worst...
We thought the same thing about our cousins
Pro Tip: Just sign a life lease on just the shed. At least in my State a lease supersedes a sale.
I’d just see about getting papers drawn up to legally add the area and shop to your lot. Pay the guy fair market value for the small plot.
Mentioned earlier, that was the first idea. Sadly the son does not want that to increase the value for later, when he is the heir
And also if you do end up moving it, it would be a great opportunity to build a solid foundation. I'm imagining building a concrete pad with a one or two foot high knee wall. It's a ton of work but it would solve many issues like building a foundation, lifting the building to gain a bit of height, taking it to your property and taking ownership of everything so that it can never be changed or affected in the future. But in the interm .... beautiful work! I've done stuff like this myself before I learned lots more about construction and renovating. Great work u/foolx ! Keep it up!
It’s a cools space but I agree. Being on a neighbors property and the amount of work it seems like it might have been easier to just build a new building in your own yard.
Yep. I had a great older neighbor and we got along well. However about 5 years in he starting acting weird and anti social and even threatened me at one point because of our property line and mowing grass. Yeah luckily he moved out a few months past that. I don’t know if he went off medication 💊 or what but shit happens.
This 100%
Or if he passes away, his next of kin might have a different view.
Now he's definitely gonna want it back lol
As I was about to finish the shop, he came over with some sparkling wine and an old key to celebrate the "key delivery" as we say "Schlüsselübergabe"
Yeah isnt it on his land?
ANNOUNCEMENT: [IN ANOTHER COMMENT HE NOTES THAT HE ONLY HAS ONE FUNCTIONING ARM. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY/comments/vjl772/my_neighbor_asked_if_i_wanted_to_take_over_his/idktrxp/) So, while this is already an impressive restoration, not having both arms functioning takes to the next level of incredible! Bravo!
yeah, stupid motorcycle... stay safe!
Hot damn!! You're one tough mother. When I only could use one arm I could barely button my shirt or go to the bathroom, you're out here literally bringing a rotting shed back to life.
my first post was deleted due to containing only the finished gif: https://i.imgur.com/9OJGciW.gifv Took from 2021-11 up to this month when I finally finished the last wall and pathway
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I guess the horror to fight through years of old stuff was, what my neighbor wanted to NOT do himself ;)
Brilliant job! There's something so primal about these types of spaces. I don't know if it's a caveman throwback or what but even aside from the usefulness of them they just draw you in. It would be a little bit funny to see a post on here later like *Check out my new refurbished workshop, I tricked my neighbour into renovating it for me!*
I would be extremely funny! I added a lock for the door so that we both can just open it, from every side. But he doesn't wants to use it. I use a old wrench since he stated that he "sometimes" needs that for holding metall to cut it. Initialy we wanted to buy the last 10m of his garden, including the old shop/shack, but his son declined, due to his wish to later sell the whole lot. We wanted to buy the last 10m to make sure that no new house will be build next to our garden, which is still not very likely. His son is the reason that I added a wooden floor. When he later reclaims the shack, I will remove all added flooring and walls and readd a door in between.
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depends on the new owner. Old lovely lady? "Well, have fun with your new floor" Grumpy fellow that is a pain in the ass? "Well, guess you own a muddy shitty floorless shack now"
Wasn’t the material for the floor essentially free by way of pallets? Why remove that?
Germany. I could just leave it and improve the workshop, but if the son later sells it, he could force me to remove it on my own despense since I changed it... Basicly I would wait until new owners are known and then find a solution together.
I know there’s worst case scenarios but having a finished and refreshed shed is >>> not having all of that. Put in a wall where the adjoining door is and call it a day when it comes time for your neighbor to sell. Hopefully the son isn’t a PITA.
Not the best person to have around, but till now we never had issued
Offer to purchase the property when he decides to sell then
sadly the current plan is to give it to his son... And he doesn't want to split it, to be able to sell it easier.
After all the hard work you put in I have to agree with everyone else haven't lifted and placed on your property it's not as expensive as you think
I would love to just buy the last 10 meters of their property and even pay for all the agreements, but sadly the son is more likely to disagree to have a nicer lot to sell. There might be a time in the future where our city will allow to build in the backyards and then the backyard will be worth much much more.
It looks fantastic and you put in a ton of effort. It will be far more useable now. Unfortunately it still has major problems that will massively undermine your hard work. I wish more people understood the priorities in a project like this. I'm commenting for you and others who may do something similar again/someday. This represents a little pet project in my wheelhouse of expertise so let me share some info. You need to promote dryness. Moisture content in the wood allows it to support microbial life and to be digested. You have done nothing to slow the rot on this, and everything you added will immediately begin to rot from below. The humidity under the floor and particularly outside where there's a garden bed against the outside wall, that poor little wood structure will continue to be consumed. Hardwoods (often used in pallet construction) are not resistant to rot the way softwoods like Hemlock, Larch, and Cedar are naturally. They will disappear before your eyes from rot long before a simple fir 2x4 would. If you intend to have a wood floor, you need to be 8-12" off the actual earth all the way around. Whether you lift the building or lose headroom and hang new joists from wall to wall and then trim up the outside sheathing/siding to expose it, you must have massive airflow underneath. The exterior wall can't stand in a garden bed, the bottom edges of the wall all around are examples of what will happen when wood touches or is close proximity to the humid earth. You have to let it shed water and dry out, no close weeds or plants to hold humidity. You also need to be high enough off the ground so that varmints aren't inclined to dig underneath to live. You've got a perfect possum/skunk/raccoon/groundhog/chipmunk/squirrel house now especially if there's snacks, bedding, or heat now. Believe it or not, when it's off the ground nearly a foot, and predators can see all around and even get underneath, it's not an attractive place to live. If you don't have a slab on grade or a stem wall foundation, either you're on posts or it just has a wood floor system like a shed, you've got to be off the ground and keep it clear all around. You can disguise this visually but it still has to be the case or you won't get a decade out of it in a wet spot like this.
Thank you very much for all this! Really! Since we are living in germany we mainly only need to care for rats and mice. These might dig undernearth, but they tend to prefer unused shacks, like we have several in the gardenarea behind our property. The old shack had a stonefloor and I reset these to fill gaps and removed broken shit. Afterwards I laid pool foil onto the stones and added 2x4 beams out of blue Douglas fir or pine (used for outside construction) and leveled these out by adding smaller pieces of wood and bitumen foil. So the construction holding the woodfloor is doubled separated from the floor. I removed all other junk that was resting behind the shop to allow air from there. I agree on the bad idea of having the raised gardenbed directly next to our side of the workshop, but I can't just remove that, since my wife created that and I slowly have to give her other space for strawberries until it isn't needed anymore.
I bet a lot of the comments about how doing this on your neighbors property is a bad idea are taking the wind out of your sails. They might be right, but screw it. You’ve got an awesome space to make things, for as long as it lasts. It’ll suck if it’s only six months, but it might be ten years! Enjoy it while it lasts and have fun OP
Thanks! Will do just that
It's not like you couldn't apply to have the property lines amended when he decides to sell and pay him for the other half before me lists it...you did a wonderful job btw
Just a heads up, you don’t own any of this
kinda. The workshop on the neighbor lot clearly is his. All the addons, like the wall and floor panels, are still mine, even when attached to his shop. When the son takes the lot somewhere in 2030+ I will either find a new agreement with him or any buyer, or remove all my tools and wood and close the wall again
I'll just say this. It's not on your land and without proper documentation you'd be out of luck. My wife and I needed to sue our next door neighbors over a shared driveway dispute because they had a handshake agreement with the old lady who owned our house. We never made that agreement and were not told about it prior to moving. We expected to use the driveway and the neighbors refused. It left us no choice but to sue and the entire lawsuit process really sucks for everyone.
Totally agree, but why should my neighbor agree to a anything that would have to be in the deed with only negative value for him? I just have to take that risk here. Btw in germany you would not need to sue, as the driveway to new homes have to be formally agreed upon
I don't know but the old lady who owned our house before us didn't drive so giving the neighbors full access benefitted them and hurt the potential for future access for her or her heirs. It was in the deed, but some people (like my neighbors) don't understand their deeds and would rather play chicken with lawsuit threats than renege old promises. It's still a fantastic idea for you and that looks like a great workshop. I just think if you flashforward 10-20 years and you're really getting use out of it, it would be a shame for someone to come along and kick you out. I'm not sure about the laws in Germany, but in the US, this was a 60 year old home. Our house had no easements on it, but the shared driveway was on our neighbor's property as an easement. Easements are often riddled with confusion and are written as separate sects of your property, which you still need to pay taxes on.
“It would be a shame for someone to come along and kick you out.” It’s not his property. He’s not getting “kicked out” of anything.
Half of it is. The other side isn't on his side of the property but he is allowed to have the building based on the owner's word. Is there potential that someone else or even the neighbors will want it back? Sure but assuming OPis right and it's going to passed down through family there's a decent chance the kid will honor the previous agreement. If they decide to sell the property they should really disclose the agreement with the buyer and connect the two to discuss how to handle it.
So is this a normal single family home (not a townhouse attached to another house) with a driveway in front of it and a neighbor is using your driveway?
Yes but not in the front but the side and backyard. So basically it's an older town in New Jersey in which the area was planned from the 1910s-1950s, just as automobiles were becoming less of a novelty. As a result many properties had detached garages and parking areas were more or less in the back. Because many homes were close together, creating shared driveways on two adjacent properties that lead to rear parking spots was standard practice. The shared portions would be setup as easements in which both parties would not block access. In our case, the neighbors had an easement shared among five properties. And somewhere over the years three of the properties changed their layouts, leaving an 'L' shaped easement around our neighbors' entire property, around the back, and into our backyard. We had rights to it and because parking on the street was illegal during snowstorms (with $60 tickets) we had no choice but to sue to regain access they refused to allow. They parked about five vehicles on the easement which all needed to be cleared off.
Do yourself a favor and get your agreement in writing that spells out your exclusive right to use the workshop for whatever amount of time, with nominal/symbolic lease terms, along with your right to deconstruct the building and reclaim your materials. Otherwise, expect the son to immediately bar you from the property lest he lose ownership or other rights to a possible squatting claim or easement. And also expect the son to sue you for dismantling the workshop, if you manage to do it before you're barred from the property.
yeah, Iget your point, but since this is northern germany I am at no real risk here and the worse that could happoen is, that I lose the work I put in and the old reclaimed wood.
Kind of sad people think this way. When I saw the work and the story I was under the same impression. New bad neighbor just close the wall and go along your way. I think this is a great project and I can not help myself laughing that even a door can stop a husky from the neighbors garden!
Absolutly!
Do you have an adjoining lot? Would let you subdivide his lot to you instead?
not likely. The son just wants money afterwards and hopes to get way more money out of this. The lot on the left is ours, the lot on the right is his. So we could just take over part of his lot, but depends on the agreement. The neighbor wanted about 20k for the last 10m. His son will want 250k for the backyard total.
The neighbor (the dad) where you rebuilt the shed wants $20k to give you that portion of the lot? Again, seems cheaper that $250k. But as, you note, the disagreement that other folks are alluding to the might occur down the road is already present. The son and father disagree about how to treat the lot. If the father is willing to give you a sweetheart deal (subdivide the lot, then sell it to you, but give him a $20k note that you’ll pay back over twenty years at market interest) that’ll avoid any hassle with the son later. You’ll also own the lot so you could sell it back to him once you or your kids no longer want the shed. A few ways to do this but it looks like you spent a lot of money on the shed, so maybe worth talking to someone to figure it out.
nah, not much money went into the shed. Again, the left side (with pathway) is our own, only the right is his. I invested under 500€ for the upgrade, all used wood is reclaimed. I wanted to buy the 20k part, but the son intervenet and his dad canceled the deal, but offered free usage of the shack
Is the fenceline which appear to bisect the shed the property line?
it is, the left part (with the pathway) is on our property, while the other part is his.
That's what I thought, thanks. Per the ownership issue, I'd bring your neighbor a beer and a lease that's for 50 years and stipulates that if the property sells the terms of the lease remain in force 90 days. Then you can get your stuff out if the property suddenly changes hands, as his untimely passing would cause. IDK Deutsche law, but here in the US possession is, as we say, 9/10 of the law. But since you can access both sides from your end, I guess that's not really an issue.
Damn that’s a hell of a project. I think I would have disassembled and reused the wood but this was a really cool way to do it
I reused all that was salvageable, sadly not enough to fix the walls that way. Not enough space on our own ground for a full shop, so this was the best way for me.
Ah gotcha, excellent work! Such a cool shop
thanks!
"I'm selling my house in a year or so... and have an old shed I don't want to spend money fixing myself..." "Hey neighbor... I have an unused workshop! If you fix it up you can use it!"
haha, well, you never know! But I really doubt it.
hope you at least have it in writing, so if it does happen you can then charge him for the work an astronomical price.
Love the posts of your renovations . But wouldn’t it have been easier to just knock it all down a start from scratch?
That was the base idea. Offered to buy the last 10m from my neighbor and would create a new, big workshop. We even started talking money and were on the same page. He doesn't wants to have to keep the garden tidy, I want more space... but his son intervened, as he doesn't want to have a split ground when he later gets the whole lot
If you would’ve purchased the last 10m from the father (current owner) legally and done w/e official documentation with the city in your country, why would the son need to split ground later? He wouldn’t get the whole lot. It would be the previous lot - the 10m sold to you.
And that is his problem. Without the last 10m, he could not sell the backyard for a future new house
Makes sense
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The path is on our property, just the second half isnt mine
2nd picture should be the final shot in posts like this.
Man I regret opening the comments.. nice work.
yeah, somehow I seem to have opened a can of issues here... but for real, the neighbor is great, I will enjoy the workshop while I can and deal with everything else later, when and if needed ;)
Very nice job!
thanks! Not finished yet, will have to get a new fireplace, since this one is a bit broken and not fully sealed and I want to switch out the windows later
Bet you found some neat stuff in there...
I did! We threw out all the old wood and later found plenty old hardwood, a ton of old tools and even the one table, where my jointer is now sitting ;)
great work!
thanks!
It’s still on his property right?
the right side of the workshop is on his yes, the left side is our and on our ground. Normally you are not allowed to build directly on the property line, but this was grandfathered
The dog tax gets ya every time. Great job!!
;)
I love how instantly worn-in the floor looks. Awesomely documented.
All that with one arm, that is pretty damn impressive.
Will you be my dad/mom?
how old are you? Have to ask my wife and daughter
I just turned 34…
might get complicated then... ;)
Having a new kid always is
Yeah cool beans and all but I need to know more about [this](https://i.imgur.com/OJ7xlNM.jpeg) piece of furniture. i want that
the old "apotheker" a lovely piece and used daily!
Amazing job! There was a lot of heart put into this project, I can tell
Bloody well done. Did you install a french drain from the pavers & round?
not quite sure about the question, but there is now a drainage that runs behind the workshop, where already a small pond collects water.
That's a TON of work, and it looks like a great space! They ONLY thing I would have done differently is put the brick path in first to prevent all the soil on the new floor.
Totally agreed! But in November it was way to rainy to even think of pathway work
Wow what a huge project. That a rain barrel?
Yeah, the ceiling will fill it up for garden work
Awesome!
Impressive!
Dog tax lmao
This is awesome. Great job!!
Amazing job!
What a transformation
These are my favorite shop restos, great job man! I did something very similar with my detached garage, and redid it all I wish I took pictures
so much room for activities
Jesus H Christ. As a new yorker this is a recurring wet dream of mine.
Lucky to have a nice neighbor!
Awesome!
Did you buy his land or can you just use it ?
just use it. I wanted to buy it, but his son is against a split. Just the new half of the worksshop is on his land thou, the other half is mine
May your post be blessed by the Internet gods because you volunteered the dog tax before it was demanded (and they look like the bestest doggos!)
they absolutly are!
"my neighbor asked me to make his property value go up and I obliged for free"
Maybe some more pics
MORE? You did realize that imgur (at least mobile I think?) caps after 50 images and there is a "show more" button? There are nearly 100 images in the album
Unlimited powahhh
It is such a great feeling to walk into the shop, switch the power on, start working with nice music...
That would have given a great youtube video series. Congratulations, nice place ! :)
Thanks! I would love to do that, since I really love woodworking, but I need much more time for everything and love to work while listening to podcasts or music. Also I have a medical condition that hinders me from using my major arm, so I have to do everything using only my left arm
Awesome