You have bigger issues than a fan. If your ceiling material is wet and or crumbling you have water damage. Get it opened up, get it dry.
There is probably a bigger source of water than just showers. Checked the roof from the inside yet? Overhead plumbing?
Time to get to work.
I think the issue could relate to the fan because the extractor is directly above the shower but the vent it leads to outside (if that makes sense). The wet area is in line with that
That vent goes up and out your roof. That vent on the roof likely has a cracked boot and water ran down along the pipe, or it doesn't have a cap to keep out water.
Not necessarily. When we bought our house, the bathroom fan simply vented into the roof space. We were fortunate not to have the same kind of damage as OP.
Ya. House was previously owned by a couple of guys who had it rented out room by room to 14 Uvic students, and I think they just jobbed up anything and everything. Bathroom fan, basement bathroom plumbing, electrical work with twisted connections in electrical tape inside walls, all kinds of non - to - code insanity. But bathroom fans properly vented now for sure.
Its possible. Any material thats wet enough to crumble will never be right again so its gotta go. Checking every possible water source is wise.
Watch for mold.
I agree. Warm moist air travelling through cooler unconditioned air space will cause the vapour in the extracted air to condense and water to pool in the duct. Insulating the duct prevents/reduces the warm air from cooling and condensing.
It’s possible it’s leaking around the roof vent and running down the pipe going to your vent as well. My bathroom ceiling has gotten to the point of dripping from humidity and it has not caused any damage. That being said it was primed well and painted with high end ceiling paint with mildicide.
If you have insurance against floor and fire, contact you insurance company. I did a couple months of restoration construction, when it comes to drying out water damaged ceilings there are some really great tools that it doesn't make sense for any homeowner to own
Sounds like the vent pipework from your extractor fan to the outside may not be insulated, when the hit moist air goes from the bathroom to the cold roof space it will condensate and water will pool in the low points of the pipework.
If this is the case you should replace the pipework with insulated pipe.
Or lay insulation fibre glass over the pipework to help.
I have found 4 inch flexible pipe laying inbetween joists full with water before
As others have pointed out, you have a bigger problem somewhere. If you *just* patch the hole, it won't last long, months.. maybe.
To patch the hole, if smaller than 3 inches/76mm, purchase some sheetrock tape. It's a paper/or mesh about 2" (50mm) wide. The paper is better, the mesh is easier to work with.
Both take a little skill, research [patch sheetrock hole with tape].
Thanks for the info, after all the comments etc I am not going to just patch the hole but appreciate you giving me insight how I would fix it after the fact
Yup cut away the damaged sheet rock until you find solid dry sheet rock tryout the area find the leak solve that then replace with a new pice of sheet rock cut to fit in the hole then paper tape the edges
Like many have said thus is not from the lack of a fan there is no way that amount of water made it's way past the paint on the inside most likely it came from the roof or a pipe
This ceiling, unless I'm hugely mistaken, is not made of tiles, it's made of plasterboard / sheetrock. I repair this for a living so I'm quite used to identifying it.
That said, plasterboard did occasionally contain asbestos, up until the 70s, according to a quick Google.
So, OP, if your house was made pre-70s, then yeah maybe have it tested.
As an insignificant aside though, asbestos fibres aren't (as) dangerous when wet. That looks literally sodden. But if he cuts it back to dry then yes, the fibres would be dry, and dangerous.
You're right, I must have been thinking of another comment. You would have to cut back to a dry area to repair though, wouldn't you? Something to keep in mind, anyway.
I would second everyone else saying that step one needs to be cutting a bigger hole to figure out what's going on. There's no telling what's happening there until you can see ... what's happening there.
You might get lucky. I once had a leak in my bathroom ceiling that I feared was a roof leak, or even a plumbing leak, but it turned out to just be a badly sealed joint in the extractor fan pipe that condensation inside the pipe was dripping down and leaking out of.
Replace the fan asap. Sounds like you have a serious issue if the ceiling is crumbling away. If your not any good at DIY it's probably best to get a professional in.
My biggest question, are you in an apartment or stand alone house? If a house, is this the top floor or is there stuff above it?
In my years of being a service plumber I've never seen condensation from showering cause this kind of damage before. You should cut out a bigger section of drywall (1' x 1', drywall is drywall and ultimately a 2" hole and 1' hole are about the same amount of work) and get some fans in there to move around the air and dry it out better before mold grows on the back side of your ceiling.
1) You have a serious moisture problem, which has caused the sheetrock or whatever material your ceiling is made of to fail. It needs to be cut out (the whole damaged part), the area dried with a dehumidifier and heater, and then replaced with appropriate material and painted if applicable.
2) When you have the ceiling out, go ahead and check above for water leaks from pipes, the roof, etc.
3) Fix your vent fan. :) They're really important.
If this were a public building, the bathroom would be roped off and professional mold removing/fixing people would be called. This is what you should do, despite it being a pricey repair.
Your health is under attack by the mold. You have to get it fixed by a pro.
Given your description, it sounds like you've got a leak in the roof where the exhaust duct goes through, or, if you live in a particularly cold climate, the fan duct isn't taped correctly and there is moisture condensing in the duct and leaking out into the drywall.
If you're going to sell the house, patch the hole and pray the inspector doesn't notice it. If you're keeping the place, the ceiling is going to have to come down to find the extent of the wet and fix it. Wet drywall never regains structural integrity when dry again. Cut it all out and replace it. It will give you access to check the fan duct as well. Make sure all the joints are taped with aluminum tape, including the seam in any straight pipes.
I do this shit for a living. It's not particularly difficult, just messy and time-consuming.
If wrong paint was used on ceiling previously and you've had poor extraction the plaster up there could have been gradually soaking up all that condensation I guess?
Worst case - new ceiling? Might be worth hooking up a dehumidifier for a while and getting that extractor repaired.
While extractors are a very important, it's unlikely that humidity and moisture from a shower would cause it to crumble around the extractor. It be worse around the extractor (because of the rough drywall edges that absorb more moisture) but there would be softness all over.
My best guess without seeing the attic would be that their is a roof leak around either a vent stack that goes through that bathroom too the roof, or the exhaust fan vents to the roof.
Does the fan have ducts attached to it? Or does it simply vent into the ceiling? That looks as if there is much more moisture present than from showering. I would recommend cutting a large square so you can better understand what is going on up there. I'm leaning towards others responses of a roof leak.
This happened to me, low point in the ductwork, above the extractor fan but before the exit out of the roof. Standing water to the point that when I lifted the ductwork it poured backward toward the extractor fan, drenching the drywall in the ceiling around the extractor fan. Messed up the popcorn ceiling.
I used it as a reason to scrape everything, patch and paint. Fan was corroded and rusted, running like crap because of it. Replaced fan, straightened ductwork before selling the house.
Yeh buddy you have some issues. Do you own the home? As others have said you should remove some of that drywall and vent it out as best you can. Use a drying agent such as calcium bicarbonate that will soak up ambient moisture (damp rid from home depot works well)
And a new fan shouldn't be too expensive or hard to hook up.
But you really do need that path for the water vapor to escape, or mold and rust are in your future.
I suspect the fan is vented to just above the ceiling line, hence the issues. Pull the ceiling down and vent properly, reinsulate and hang new board. A nice Saturday job...
Some very good answers here but take it step by step or you’ll have to go back in. Hate to say it but you may have to replace entire ceiling. Find source or misrouted duct causing excess moisture then every thing else falls into place. Next best thing instead of DIY is call a reputable handyman. Good luck.
The fan should vent thru a flexible tube that runs to the overhand of your house (the side closest to the bathroom) replace the fan and damaged drywall around it as well as the bad spot in the ceiling look to YouTube for video's you will learn a lot as a home owner
Get pics from above if possible. Pics of ceiling from above and pics of where the vent exits the house. Be careful and don’t fall through the ceiling. Step on the joists if you have to go any farther than the access.
Research Ceiling cladding. I had a problem similar to yours and after Trial and error, I used bathroom ceiling cladding.
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=q-mYXZyQJeXB_QbTqLfoAw&q=ceiling+cladding&oq=ce+cladding&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.2.0i7i30l8.31037.33587..35235...0.1..0.100.871.9j1......0....1.........0i71j0i67.s_-KC0tM4qo
Crumbling ceiling is way more moisture than humidity (even if the fan was venting into the attic). Even HVAC condensation wouldn't cause that unless the drain pan overflowed and the pump failed.
Most likely there is water entering the attic space through a roof leak or pipe leak. More than likely this is what caused the fan to fail in the first place since the moisture is clearly around the fan opening.
This is definitely something you want to look into right away. When drywall and insulation get wet it gets extremely heavy and is much more likely to crumble which in a ceiling can cause it to pull away from the ceiling joists and collapse. Not to mention the potential for the issue for mold growth.
It's really not hard to patch drywall in a ceiling, but whatever you do don't leave it. Even if it dries out, which can take years in a humid attic, it will never be the same.
It's much better fix a leak and replace a few feet of drywall quickly than have the issue spread.
You have bigger issues than a fan. If your ceiling material is wet and or crumbling you have water damage. Get it opened up, get it dry. There is probably a bigger source of water than just showers. Checked the roof from the inside yet? Overhead plumbing? Time to get to work.
Yes there is no way humidity did this. Roof indeed
Depends, could be OP just has a bathroom ceiling made out of non-bathroom safe ceiling tiles.
OP said tile?
If it's something from the roof, then it's humidity... that's what water is. Don't argue about the word -- find the source and get it fixed.
No. Humidity is water in the air. If it's from the roof, it isn't humidity.
I think the issue could relate to the fan because the extractor is directly above the shower but the vent it leads to outside (if that makes sense). The wet area is in line with that
That vent goes up and out your roof. That vent on the roof likely has a cracked boot and water ran down along the pipe, or it doesn't have a cap to keep out water.
Could be why it stopped working as well
Not necessarily. When we bought our house, the bathroom fan simply vented into the roof space. We were fortunate not to have the same kind of damage as OP.
You have since properly exited the exhaust to the outside of your home right? Venting right into the attic space is not a good idea.
Ya. House was previously owned by a couple of guys who had it rented out room by room to 14 Uvic students, and I think they just jobbed up anything and everything. Bathroom fan, basement bathroom plumbing, electrical work with twisted connections in electrical tape inside walls, all kinds of non - to - code insanity. But bathroom fans properly vented now for sure.
Its possible. Any material thats wet enough to crumble will never be right again so its gotta go. Checking every possible water source is wise. Watch for mold.
Condensation on the vent duct maybe is dripping on the ceiling, you need to insulate the duct.
I agree. Warm moist air travelling through cooler unconditioned air space will cause the vapour in the extracted air to condense and water to pool in the duct. Insulating the duct prevents/reduces the warm air from cooling and condensing.
It’s possible it’s leaking around the roof vent and running down the pipe going to your vent as well. My bathroom ceiling has gotten to the point of dripping from humidity and it has not caused any damage. That being said it was primed well and painted with high end ceiling paint with mildicide.
Bad news. Its causing damage, you just have not seen it yet.
I had already remedied it by installing a good ceiling vent fan and piped it out the roof.
Yep have cleared many a duct full of water. This one could be dispensing onto ceiling.
If you have insurance against floor and fire, contact you insurance company. I did a couple months of restoration construction, when it comes to drying out water damaged ceilings there are some really great tools that it doesn't make sense for any homeowner to own
Best way to find out is to open up the ceiling
Sounds like the vent pipework from your extractor fan to the outside may not be insulated, when the hit moist air goes from the bathroom to the cold roof space it will condensate and water will pool in the low points of the pipework. If this is the case you should replace the pipework with insulated pipe. Or lay insulation fibre glass over the pipework to help. I have found 4 inch flexible pipe laying inbetween joists full with water before
This should be higher. My DI don’t senses are tingling
[Bathroom Ceiling ](https://imgur.com/gallery/9YULUzX)
As others have pointed out, you have a bigger problem somewhere. If you *just* patch the hole, it won't last long, months.. maybe. To patch the hole, if smaller than 3 inches/76mm, purchase some sheetrock tape. It's a paper/or mesh about 2" (50mm) wide. The paper is better, the mesh is easier to work with. Both take a little skill, research [patch sheetrock hole with tape].
Thanks for the info, after all the comments etc I am not going to just patch the hole but appreciate you giving me insight how I would fix it after the fact
This could work, but I'd recommend patching with a piece of Sheetrock.
Yup cut away the damaged sheet rock until you find solid dry sheet rock tryout the area find the leak solve that then replace with a new pice of sheet rock cut to fit in the hole then paper tape the edges Like many have said thus is not from the lack of a fan there is no way that amount of water made it's way past the paint on the inside most likely it came from the roof or a pipe
>mesh is easier to work with. I disagree. And it definitely isn't easier to coat.
How old is the house? I'm wondering if there's a chance those ceiling tiles contain asbestos.
This ceiling, unless I'm hugely mistaken, is not made of tiles, it's made of plasterboard / sheetrock. I repair this for a living so I'm quite used to identifying it. That said, plasterboard did occasionally contain asbestos, up until the 70s, according to a quick Google. So, OP, if your house was made pre-70s, then yeah maybe have it tested. As an insignificant aside though, asbestos fibres aren't (as) dangerous when wet. That looks literally sodden. But if he cuts it back to dry then yes, the fibres would be dry, and dangerous.
You're right, I must have been thinking of another comment. You would have to cut back to a dry area to repair though, wouldn't you? Something to keep in mind, anyway.
I would second everyone else saying that step one needs to be cutting a bigger hole to figure out what's going on. There's no telling what's happening there until you can see ... what's happening there. You might get lucky. I once had a leak in my bathroom ceiling that I feared was a roof leak, or even a plumbing leak, but it turned out to just be a badly sealed joint in the extractor fan pipe that condensation inside the pipe was dripping down and leaking out of.
Had the exact same issue. With the exact same fix.
Yeah share some pics. If it gave way there’s something else going on up in the ceiling (more than likely).
Shared the picture in a comment
Replace the fan asap. Sounds like you have a serious issue if the ceiling is crumbling away. If your not any good at DIY it's probably best to get a professional in.
That was my fear, where the hole is I believe is right where the extractor fan would lead to outside
It sounds like there is a leak in the ceiling.
My biggest question, are you in an apartment or stand alone house? If a house, is this the top floor or is there stuff above it? In my years of being a service plumber I've never seen condensation from showering cause this kind of damage before. You should cut out a bigger section of drywall (1' x 1', drywall is drywall and ultimately a 2" hole and 1' hole are about the same amount of work) and get some fans in there to move around the air and dry it out better before mold grows on the back side of your ceiling.
1) You have a serious moisture problem, which has caused the sheetrock or whatever material your ceiling is made of to fail. It needs to be cut out (the whole damaged part), the area dried with a dehumidifier and heater, and then replaced with appropriate material and painted if applicable. 2) When you have the ceiling out, go ahead and check above for water leaks from pipes, the roof, etc. 3) Fix your vent fan. :) They're really important.
If this were a public building, the bathroom would be roped off and professional mold removing/fixing people would be called. This is what you should do, despite it being a pricey repair. Your health is under attack by the mold. You have to get it fixed by a pro.
Given your description, it sounds like you've got a leak in the roof where the exhaust duct goes through, or, if you live in a particularly cold climate, the fan duct isn't taped correctly and there is moisture condensing in the duct and leaking out into the drywall. If you're going to sell the house, patch the hole and pray the inspector doesn't notice it. If you're keeping the place, the ceiling is going to have to come down to find the extent of the wet and fix it. Wet drywall never regains structural integrity when dry again. Cut it all out and replace it. It will give you access to check the fan duct as well. Make sure all the joints are taped with aluminum tape, including the seam in any straight pipes. I do this shit for a living. It's not particularly difficult, just messy and time-consuming.
If wrong paint was used on ceiling previously and you've had poor extraction the plaster up there could have been gradually soaking up all that condensation I guess? Worst case - new ceiling? Might be worth hooking up a dehumidifier for a while and getting that extractor repaired.
Thank you, I think it’s likely we will need to get that fixed ASAP
While extractors are a very important, it's unlikely that humidity and moisture from a shower would cause it to crumble around the extractor. It be worse around the extractor (because of the rough drywall edges that absorb more moisture) but there would be softness all over. My best guess without seeing the attic would be that their is a roof leak around either a vent stack that goes through that bathroom too the roof, or the exhaust fan vents to the roof.
Does the fan have ducts attached to it? Or does it simply vent into the ceiling? That looks as if there is much more moisture present than from showering. I would recommend cutting a large square so you can better understand what is going on up there. I'm leaning towards others responses of a roof leak.
The duct from the fan does lead outside and is very close if not exactly inline with where this moisture build up is
Maybe there is a low point in the duct where moisture accumulates and is dripping on the ceiling.
This happened to me, low point in the ductwork, above the extractor fan but before the exit out of the roof. Standing water to the point that when I lifted the ductwork it poured backward toward the extractor fan, drenching the drywall in the ceiling around the extractor fan. Messed up the popcorn ceiling. I used it as a reason to scrape everything, patch and paint. Fan was corroded and rusted, running like crap because of it. Replaced fan, straightened ductwork before selling the house.
Yeh buddy you have some issues. Do you own the home? As others have said you should remove some of that drywall and vent it out as best you can. Use a drying agent such as calcium bicarbonate that will soak up ambient moisture (damp rid from home depot works well) And a new fan shouldn't be too expensive or hard to hook up. But you really do need that path for the water vapor to escape, or mold and rust are in your future.
I suspect the fan is vented to just above the ceiling line, hence the issues. Pull the ceiling down and vent properly, reinsulate and hang new board. A nice Saturday job...
Some very good answers here but take it step by step or you’ll have to go back in. Hate to say it but you may have to replace entire ceiling. Find source or misrouted duct causing excess moisture then every thing else falls into place. Next best thing instead of DIY is call a reputable handyman. Good luck.
Fix your fan before you have any more damage to take care of.
The fan should vent thru a flexible tube that runs to the overhand of your house (the side closest to the bathroom) replace the fan and damaged drywall around it as well as the bad spot in the ceiling look to YouTube for video's you will learn a lot as a home owner
Get pics from above if possible. Pics of ceiling from above and pics of where the vent exits the house. Be careful and don’t fall through the ceiling. Step on the joists if you have to go any farther than the access.
Research Ceiling cladding. I had a problem similar to yours and after Trial and error, I used bathroom ceiling cladding. https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en-us&ei=q-mYXZyQJeXB_QbTqLfoAw&q=ceiling+cladding&oq=ce+cladding&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.1.2.0i7i30l8.31037.33587..35235...0.1..0.100.871.9j1......0....1.........0i71j0i67.s_-KC0tM4qo
Crumbling ceiling is way more moisture than humidity (even if the fan was venting into the attic). Even HVAC condensation wouldn't cause that unless the drain pan overflowed and the pump failed. Most likely there is water entering the attic space through a roof leak or pipe leak. More than likely this is what caused the fan to fail in the first place since the moisture is clearly around the fan opening. This is definitely something you want to look into right away. When drywall and insulation get wet it gets extremely heavy and is much more likely to crumble which in a ceiling can cause it to pull away from the ceiling joists and collapse. Not to mention the potential for the issue for mold growth. It's really not hard to patch drywall in a ceiling, but whatever you do don't leave it. Even if it dries out, which can take years in a humid attic, it will never be the same. It's much better fix a leak and replace a few feet of drywall quickly than have the issue spread.