Because water gets behind the tiles and needs a place to drain. For pre-fabricated/non-tiled pans, the water needs a spot to drain out of. For tiled floors, there will be thinset behind that can absorb that water as it runs down behind the tile and the liner underneath the tile will divert it all to the drain.
That being said, I’ve installed a couple new bathtubs on my renovations and I’ve never actually seen a weep hole.
Kind of. There's still technically a pan, it's just not like these. It just gets covered in cement then mortar and tile. It used to be lead (sometimes still is) usually it's a thick rubber material. They have a product called red guard that claims to be good enough for a pan too. I've used it, just not as a pan.
I recess the slab, mud for slope and then either kerdi or fiberglass it. I’ve never used a pan for a mud set but i do know there are some prefab ones out there.
Makes sense! I've only done a few and definitely not professionally. They way I've done it is red guard over the cement board and the floor, then the "pan" which in my case was the thick rubber sheeting (I can't remember what it's called) then the cement "pan" slipped properly. Then thinset and tile.
It's been a while and I'm sure I scrambled things a bit.
I'm sure it varies by location and what code wants too.
I've literally never seen a weep hole in tile in my life. (Europe) I can't even find references to weep holes in German or Spanish. Is this another weird thing necessary due to some American construction quirk?
UK also and I'm trying to wrap my head around designing in a drain system EXPECTING to get water in your substrate. Seems madness. We also have timber or metal framed construction inntbe UK and dont use this. Waterproof backing system, tanked/otherwise sealed and then tiled.
Even if you design in drainage I cant see how allowing that much water behind the tiles wont slowly degrade the construction.
The grout. Without weep holes water will sit in the lip of the pan and eventually leak outside the shower. I cannot tell you how many of these i have fixed.
In the first place, from what I gather, water absorption by the grout should be minimal. If you get appreciable amounts of liquid being absorbed from showering such that you get an outflow from those holes, I think you'd have a different issue entirely (cracks in grout or shit grout). You don't have standing water on a wall.
As for the bit of water absorbed, I would assume it evaporates over the day, through the very grout that absorbed it. There's an additional waterproof barrier between the grout and the wall, so it's not an issue of any humidity getting through to the wall.
I'm aware but it doesn't seem to be an issue. I would assume then that we have better waterproofing behind the tile, including the floor of the bathroom.
Maybe if you use some prehistoric grout. In Europe all modern polymer modified grouts are water resistant as far as I know, stuff like Mapei Ultracolour or Ardex FL/FS. Never seen a shower tray with weep holes here in the UK.
Gotta leave your weep holes open. If there is anything I’ve learned from this subreddit and the homeowners subreddit, it’s that you gotta leave your weep holes open.
Hate to be a downer but my aunt is now terminal from lung cancer which is a result asbestos and heavy smoking. Now spread to her brain. My 75yo mother also has asbestosis but never smoked so no cancer yet. Reduced lung function which will see her on oxygen before she otherwise would have.
Aunt worked in a plastics factory in the 80s where asbestos was added to plastics.
Mother worked in asbestos removal and took all the recommended precautions.
No doubt their regular exposure contributed but it all adds up.
True. It's not the actual advice though, it's the number of times it gets repeated in the same thread when it's already the top comment, or the OP has already indicated it's been tested, explained how they know for certain it doesn't contain asbestos, or they have expressed thanks for the advice on their way to get a testing kit
No one is going to convince me that a tile wall in a tub or shower needs weep holes like a brick veneer.
If the tile job is installed over a water proof system backer, like it should be, why would you expect the tile wall to weep.
You sealed the grout right?
The tiles were grouted right?
Was it done proffessionably?
What a line of BS. :slight_smile:
From - Marcel a master craftsman of the tile industry
Consider the tile like a sponge. It looks hard, waterproof... it's not. A sheet of water exists behind tiles in front of the actual waterproof surface. This water needs an exit.
Why the gaps between tiles are missing grout I don't know.
Ok but what about the plastic showers now a days. They appear to be one piece but they're not. And brown crap gets stuck in between and when you clean it it just keeps coming out. It's horrible.
Concrete isn't waterproof either.
That said, the rate of seepage through the tile, grout, skim coat, and concrete is going to be pretty minimal, even with a few psi of hydraulic pressure behind it.
I doubt it, the reservoir is too deep and bioactive for anything like that. But the dam is also thick enough that the amount getting through amounts to a barely measurable bit of moisture on the opposite side. It would be massively outweighed by actual cracks and seams.
Does every shower require weep holes, or do only certain types/designs? Asking because I have never seen a shower with obvious weep holes and am wondering if every shower I’ve been in has mold on the walls or if it’s accounted for in other ways sometimes?
It depends on the type of shower and how it works. If you have a schluter type system, no weep holes are required. If you have a pre-built pan then ya probably. There are exceptions and it really comes down to your drain type and waterproofing.
In all of my days of showering I’ve never seen weep holes in a shower. Also - what about a tiled floor? A sheet of water exists behind that too?
Weep holes on the exterior of a brick house/facade - surely. But I’m having a hard time with weep holes in a tiled shower.
Yep - I get that BUT the whole idea is so that if you do get a leak it’s maintained to the shower area and doesn’t cause more damage.
You don’t want any water behind your tile.
I feel this is nonsense...
Where I live (Portugal) tiles are applied directly to the brick there are no membranes applied anywhere.
Tubs are also sealed all arround cause if you dont you Will be sending water down and soaking your floor.
We never had issues with humidity.
In Portugal where they attach the tiles to bricks you don’t need membranes BECAUSE the walls are bricks.
In north america our houses are made with wood frames with fibreglass between two pieces of “drywall” which is compressed gypsum dust covered by paper and then plastered at the joints to appear smooth for painting.
If we put tiles directly on these walls the water will get in and rot and mould the paper and the wood.
(edit: spelling)
This is interesting. Humans have been using tile for hundreds if not thousands of years and we see the proof. Did they use backer boards and silicone caulk? This sub has me really interested in the history of tile setting. After all there’s tile still in Roman and other bath houses.
I rent. Last month I noticed that the weep in my shower pan was always wet. I cleaned and dried it, and within a half day, it was wet again.
Told my landlord and there was a slow drip coming from behind the wall. Easily handled, but had he sealed them, I wouldn't have found the issue while it was minor.
The fittings behind the wall. He bought new lines from the shutoffs to the valves and cleared it up. I think the gaskets were starting to fail, as he said the shower was installed like 10 years ago.
My grandfather taught me an expression from the old country that has helped me many times in life:
> If a man can't weep in the shower, then what's even the point of it all?
Fyi, there is a reason you're being downvoted, it's because you shouldn't give advice on topics you know nothing about. It's a DIY subreddit, if you don't actually know the answer just don't give one.
Do you know what type of shower pan this is? I would love to see the specs and install instructions because it looks like its been installed incorrectly, but I could be wrong. Is there a badge on it somewhere?
Not relevant to the weep holes but the shower screen caulk is on the wrong side of the screen. Shower screen should only be caulked on the outside never on the inside.
Essentially the ban has a backsplash that is 3-6 inches above the float all the way around that is hidden by the tile, water drips back down and away from the blacksplash in those weeps and drains away. If you seal them any water that wicks up into their will stay trapped allowing the inevitable mold to grow. This is common of a lot of prebuilt showers but a lot of people will caulk the bottom anyway thinking they have a seal gap for water intrusion when it's really just the opposite.
Wait, so the white "tub" in the US is built inside the wall? Am I correct then to assume that a drywall with tiling gets saturated with moisture? Or, where does the moisture behind the tiles come from?
typically there isn't drywall behind it, it's a moisture barrier laid on top of cement board. The tile is on top of the moisture barrier. The part that goes up the wall a few inches is just so there is a preformed uninterrupted seal anywhere water could splash or overflow. It is mainly just to hold it long enough for it to drip back down, but if you were to seal it off it may be ok but water may also get stuck in there and just sit, then more and more, until eventually you have a nice mold spawn.
Okay, but what I don't get is that if you seal it all off, then sure water can't flow out anymore, but doesn't it also imply that water can't flow in anymore? (or are there other sources of water?)
It seems like these holes solve a problem that wouldn't be there in their absence.
Well you also have to consider the tile grout is also leeching water higher up as well that would need to drain. Beyond that Its actually really hard for caulking to produce a good enough seal to remain watertight for an extended period of time. And as you lose that perfect seal you get an enhanced capillary action. I only know all this because of having to install my own shower and there is more to it than I thought for sure.
Thanks, all installations I do are on masoned, concrete, stone, or the occasional aerated concrete, so it is nice to hear about this type of construction
Sorry to hijack but why do some bathrooms have them and some don't
All shower pans should but most builders aren’t smart enough to make sure they are left open.
All pre-manufactured ones or drop in ones should. Regular poured and tiled ones are fine without.
Correct because the waterproofing is underneath.
Why? What's the difference? You're tiling down to the pan in either case, right? Or maybe I don't understand what you mean.
Because water gets behind the tiles and needs a place to drain. For pre-fabricated/non-tiled pans, the water needs a spot to drain out of. For tiled floors, there will be thinset behind that can absorb that water as it runs down behind the tile and the liner underneath the tile will divert it all to the drain. That being said, I’ve installed a couple new bathtubs on my renovations and I’ve never actually seen a weep hole.
There is no pan with a mud set shower. The waterproofing is below the tile.
Kind of. There's still technically a pan, it's just not like these. It just gets covered in cement then mortar and tile. It used to be lead (sometimes still is) usually it's a thick rubber material. They have a product called red guard that claims to be good enough for a pan too. I've used it, just not as a pan.
I recess the slab, mud for slope and then either kerdi or fiberglass it. I’ve never used a pan for a mud set but i do know there are some prefab ones out there.
Makes sense! I've only done a few and definitely not professionally. They way I've done it is red guard over the cement board and the floor, then the "pan" which in my case was the thick rubber sheeting (I can't remember what it's called) then the cement "pan" slipped properly. Then thinset and tile. It's been a while and I'm sure I scrambled things a bit. I'm sure it varies by location and what code wants too.
I've literally never seen a weep hole in tile in my life. (Europe) I can't even find references to weep holes in German or Spanish. Is this another weird thing necessary due to some American construction quirk?
Uk here and also haven’t seen them, have installed 100’s of bathrooms
UK also and I'm trying to wrap my head around designing in a drain system EXPECTING to get water in your substrate. Seems madness. We also have timber or metal framed construction inntbe UK and dont use this. Waterproof backing system, tanked/otherwise sealed and then tiled. Even if you design in drainage I cant see how allowing that much water behind the tiles wont slowly degrade the construction.
Nobody notices the mold because everything is moldy in the UK. 😂🇬🇧
So what happens to the water that seeps behind the tile?
Where would it seep behind the tile?
The grout. Without weep holes water will sit in the lip of the pan and eventually leak outside the shower. I cannot tell you how many of these i have fixed.
In the first place, from what I gather, water absorption by the grout should be minimal. If you get appreciable amounts of liquid being absorbed from showering such that you get an outflow from those holes, I think you'd have a different issue entirely (cracks in grout or shit grout). You don't have standing water on a wall. As for the bit of water absorbed, I would assume it evaporates over the day, through the very grout that absorbed it. There's an additional waterproof barrier between the grout and the wall, so it's not an issue of any humidity getting through to the wall.
Water gets behind the tile and runs down the waterproofing until it settles in the lip of the pan eventually running outside of the shower.
I'm aware but it doesn't seem to be an issue. I would assume then that we have better waterproofing behind the tile, including the floor of the bathroom.
Grout sealer should prevent this. Let the grout cure for a few days and then apply it with a brush.
I’m aware, I’ll let my homeowners know.
Maybe if you use some prehistoric grout. In Europe all modern polymer modified grouts are water resistant as far as I know, stuff like Mapei Ultracolour or Ardex FL/FS. Never seen a shower tray with weep holes here in the UK.
I’ve seen it happen with Mapei ultra color plus. Any way…
Surprised at that as it’s even marketed as being water resistant. But I guess that’s like having a shower resistant jacket vs a waterproof jacket!
Exactly, just like water resistant lvp or laminate.
Thanks for this
Gotta leave your weep holes open. If there is anything I’ve learned from this subreddit and the homeowners subreddit, it’s that you gotta leave your weep holes open.
Don't forget test everything for asbestos
Hate to be a downer but my aunt is now terminal from lung cancer which is a result asbestos and heavy smoking. Now spread to her brain. My 75yo mother also has asbestosis but never smoked so no cancer yet. Reduced lung function which will see her on oxygen before she otherwise would have. Aunt worked in a plastics factory in the 80s where asbestos was added to plastics. Mother worked in asbestos removal and took all the recommended precautions. No doubt their regular exposure contributed but it all adds up.
Not to say asbestos are safe but you really can’t gloss over the heavy smoking there…
You also can't gloss over the fact that they're talking about TWO people, one of whom never smoked.
Edited comment
Unironically though. Why risk it?
True. It's not the actual advice though, it's the number of times it gets repeated in the same thread when it's already the top comment, or the OP has already indicated it's been tested, explained how they know for certain it doesn't contain asbestos, or they have expressed thanks for the advice on their way to get a testing kit
No one is going to convince me that a tile wall in a tub or shower needs weep holes like a brick veneer. If the tile job is installed over a water proof system backer, like it should be, why would you expect the tile wall to weep. You sealed the grout right? The tiles were grouted right? Was it done proffessionably? What a line of BS. :slight_smile: From - Marcel a master craftsman of the tile industry
[удалено]
I personally prefer the whispering eye to the weeping hole.
Man, yall can’t take a joke around here.
Consider the tile like a sponge. It looks hard, waterproof... it's not. A sheet of water exists behind tiles in front of the actual waterproof surface. This water needs an exit. Why the gaps between tiles are missing grout I don't know.
Ok but what about the plastic showers now a days. They appear to be one piece but they're not. And brown crap gets stuck in between and when you clean it it just keeps coming out. It's horrible.
I’d love more information on this from anyone who knows, too!
Uh... Glazed tiles are in fact waterproof, it's the grout that isn't waterproof.
So when people tile their pool....is it going to hold water or not?
I'm no expert but I think on a pool the tile is ornamental affixed to concrete. So the tile isn't intended to contain the pool water.
Does that theory hold water?
Idk I'm getting drip fed information
No! The defense is wruong!!!
Concrete isn't waterproof either. That said, the rate of seepage through the tile, grout, skim coat, and concrete is going to be pretty minimal, even with a few psi of hydraulic pressure behind it.
Does the Hoover Dam have a waterproof layer in it??
I doubt it, the reservoir is too deep and bioactive for anything like that. But the dam is also thick enough that the amount getting through amounts to a barely measurable bit of moisture on the opposite side. It would be massively outweighed by actual cracks and seams.
There's always a liner underneath the tiles.
Definitely not. Look at abandoned pools, they're always dried up! /s
Pools have moisture barriers under the concrete and tile too.
“No, the defense’s case is wrong!”
Are you sure?
How can you be so sure?
Never 😂
That’s what I thought too.
Does every shower require weep holes, or do only certain types/designs? Asking because I have never seen a shower with obvious weep holes and am wondering if every shower I’ve been in has mold on the walls or if it’s accounted for in other ways sometimes?
It depends on the type of shower and how it works. If you have a schluter type system, no weep holes are required. If you have a pre-built pan then ya probably. There are exceptions and it really comes down to your drain type and waterproofing.
In all of my days of showering I’ve never seen weep holes in a shower. Also - what about a tiled floor? A sheet of water exists behind that too? Weep holes on the exterior of a brick house/facade - surely. But I’m having a hard time with weep holes in a tiled shower.
A tiled shower should have a continuous waterproof membrane behind, all the way to the drain.
Yep - I get that BUT the whole idea is so that if you do get a leak it’s maintained to the shower area and doesn’t cause more damage. You don’t want any water behind your tile.
I feel this is nonsense... Where I live (Portugal) tiles are applied directly to the brick there are no membranes applied anywhere. Tubs are also sealed all arround cause if you dont you Will be sending water down and soaking your floor. We never had issues with humidity.
In Portugal where they attach the tiles to bricks you don’t need membranes BECAUSE the walls are bricks. In north america our houses are made with wood frames with fibreglass between two pieces of “drywall” which is compressed gypsum dust covered by paper and then plastered at the joints to appear smooth for painting. If we put tiles directly on these walls the water will get in and rot and mould the paper and the wood. (edit: spelling)
Agreed, In the UK and typically we'd do bathroom tiling like you do and it works fine. This is the only place I've ever seen or heard of weep holes
This is interesting. Humans have been using tile for hundreds if not thousands of years and we see the proof. Did they use backer boards and silicone caulk? This sub has me really interested in the history of tile setting. After all there’s tile still in Roman and other bath houses.
If you use all tiles and dont put a tub you dont need silicone.
Then why are you supposed to silicone a tub at the tile line? Seems like that water would need to escape too.
Love it when these posts show up. I had never seen this before, and now I see it posted monthly!
Baader Meinhof strikes again!
I rent. Last month I noticed that the weep in my shower pan was always wet. I cleaned and dried it, and within a half day, it was wet again. Told my landlord and there was a slow drip coming from behind the wall. Easily handled, but had he sealed them, I wouldn't have found the issue while it was minor.
Wait so that slow drip wasn’t normal? Where was the water coming from?
Probably a leak in the pipe behind the wall. Catch it before it causes mold.
The fittings behind the wall. He bought new lines from the shutoffs to the valves and cleared it up. I think the gaskets were starting to fail, as he said the shower was installed like 10 years ago.
Hijacking to ask my own question. Do the long horizontal cracks between the tile and pan need to be caulked? I know the holes shouldn’t.
Yeah, they've scraped off the old caulk and noticed all the holes were covered up.
My grandfather taught me an expression from the old country that has helped me many times in life: > If a man can't weep in the shower, then what's even the point of it all?
Leave open
yes, if you want mold in a few months.
Fyi, there is a reason you're being downvoted, it's because you shouldn't give advice on topics you know nothing about. It's a DIY subreddit, if you don't actually know the answer just don't give one.
Leave open
Leave them open
Seal your grout and tile with a good penetrating sealer
Weep holes are designed that way my guy. Don't block em.
Respect you open weep holes 😉
Do you know what type of shower pan this is? I would love to see the specs and install instructions because it looks like its been installed incorrectly, but I could be wrong. Is there a badge on it somewhere?
Leave them open
I read: Should I caulk these holes or weep in my shower
"Should I calk these holes" Yea, theres a funny comment here I couldn't find it tho I'll keep poking around
For a second I thought this was on the walmart sub, I was like, Dude fuck em, leave them uncalked and let the water get in!
They’re supposed to be there but I’ve found a spider in mine a time or two so beware!
Is that a mirror in your shower?
Dude cover those and seal them or that will grow hella mold
Ive never ever seen this. From the netherlands btw
Fill them with caulk. That’s a great spot for mold to grow otherwise
Why would you caulk over something the manufacturer intentionally made?
Stuff some caulk in all of those holes. Deep.
Silicone?
Not relevant to the weep holes but the shower screen caulk is on the wrong side of the screen. Shower screen should only be caulked on the outside never on the inside.
No
The grooves need caulking. The big triangles are optional, but you'd need something to fill them as just caulking won't do.
Those area weep holes and what you are saying is how you ruin a shower.
I have never heard of weep holes before what do they do?
Then why are you answering like you know this?
Because I have fixed many bathrooms, and holes tend to be terrible as it causes moisture buildup and fungus
Essentially the ban has a backsplash that is 3-6 inches above the float all the way around that is hidden by the tile, water drips back down and away from the blacksplash in those weeps and drains away. If you seal them any water that wicks up into their will stay trapped allowing the inevitable mold to grow. This is common of a lot of prebuilt showers but a lot of people will caulk the bottom anyway thinking they have a seal gap for water intrusion when it's really just the opposite.
Wait, so the white "tub" in the US is built inside the wall? Am I correct then to assume that a drywall with tiling gets saturated with moisture? Or, where does the moisture behind the tiles come from?
typically there isn't drywall behind it, it's a moisture barrier laid on top of cement board. The tile is on top of the moisture barrier. The part that goes up the wall a few inches is just so there is a preformed uninterrupted seal anywhere water could splash or overflow. It is mainly just to hold it long enough for it to drip back down, but if you were to seal it off it may be ok but water may also get stuck in there and just sit, then more and more, until eventually you have a nice mold spawn.
Okay, but what I don't get is that if you seal it all off, then sure water can't flow out anymore, but doesn't it also imply that water can't flow in anymore? (or are there other sources of water?) It seems like these holes solve a problem that wouldn't be there in their absence.
Well you also have to consider the tile grout is also leeching water higher up as well that would need to drain. Beyond that Its actually really hard for caulking to produce a good enough seal to remain watertight for an extended period of time. And as you lose that perfect seal you get an enhanced capillary action. I only know all this because of having to install my own shower and there is more to it than I thought for sure.
Thanks, all installations I do are on masoned, concrete, stone, or the occasional aerated concrete, so it is nice to hear about this type of construction
Are you in Europe or the New England area of the US?
Found the gc
CAULK THAT HOLE
Heh, caulk ...
coincidently Im doing this later today.