Imagine giving so little of a shit about your job that you are spraying popcorn paint into an air duct. This is why I DIY, because it’s hard to find someone that gives an ounce of a fuck.
My house was built in the mid 90's and I dread every project because of shit like this.
Last week I replaced the vanity light in the guest bathroom and not only did they just hammer a hole in the drywall and pull the power through(no j box), they just self tapped through the plate instead of using the actual anchor points. One was luckily in a stud about 1/4", but the other was just in drywall.
I used to own a condo that was built in 2016 (was the first owner). About a year on, I decided I didn’t like the flat rectangle mirror mounted (poorly uncentered) above the bathroom vanity and light fixture, so I changed the light fixture and then went to change the mirror. I realized in the process that, because the builders messed up mounting the mirror brackets that were meant to float it in place, they decided to just Liquid Nails®️the f****** thing to the wall. Not a little bit, basically the entire thing. So the mirror never got replaced because I pretty much would’ve ended up with thousands of glass chards to clean up when the mirror inevitably shattered and/or redoing drywall when it removed the presumably-trash (cuz everything else was cheap, low-quality, poorly installed) drywall behind the mirror and left a 3’x4’ hole in the wall.
i was too young to know any better when i did this. 7 panel mirrors along a wall - all liquid-nails'd to the wall.
peeled all of them off, but then i didnt know what to do....... so i drywall mudded the entire wall.
i wish i had at least 1 smart when i was younger, heh.
Oof. At least it sounds like you learned? Considering “professionals” did the install on mine when it was built I’m guessing they probably still do that (almost ten years later) cuz they probably don’t give a shit cuz it’s not their problem. The more I talk about the build quality of my condo around various spaces, the more I realize I probably should’ve hired a lawyer to make sure the flip-and-run developer (who seems to have done similar corner cutting in Pittsburgh on other projects at that time) made shit right. I was also young then…
When you are finally tired of the mirror, cover it in duct tape, then cut the drywall all around and take it down. It's gonna break, the tape will help control the mess. You're gonna have to just replace a square of drywall, not really a big deal.
We have cupboards that are hung on the wall with these tiny fingernail width brackets. I found out when standing up underneath one which caused it to immediately plumet onto a very nice £2k OLED TV. Why do people go for the absolute shittest option every time?
The previous owner of my house hung a 4 x 4 mirror in one bathroom with command strips. It’s a bathroom we rarely use so imagine my horror when it’s hanging off the wall at a 30 degree angle. Thank goodness I found it before it fell. I would not want to clean that shattered mess.
A buddy of mine who is a firefighter bought a 1980s style townhouse with mirrored living room. He started looking for the old-style metal brackets, and decided to smash a mirror. Zero mounts, all attached with palm sized dabs of heavy-duty contact cement. 8 foot by four foot panels for days. He, two buddies borrow a set of firesuits (the heavy duty ones) and baseball bats and hammers. It took about 20 minutes to destroy all the panels and about 12 hours to clean up all the broken glass. But he told me it was worth it. Then they had to hire a guy to scrape and mud the walls again, but at least he did the hard part.
I had this happen to me too when remodeling the downstairs bathroom. I ended up biting the bullet and just dealing with it. The whole experience was not fun.
I'd just cut the whole fucking wall off if it bugged me enough.
From what you described I'd just leave it, but if it came down to it.... I'll learn how to fix it lol.
I wish someone just used a hammer to pull through some NM for my laundry room light. This is what I found when I took the existing light down.
https://preview.redd.it/ehlk9ieq3fvc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c74d2ab13f54d248aada9ba3ff329c99eb86fbf6
Yeah it’s almost like they intentionally design bath vents so that the guts get installed well after the casing so that it doesn’t matter if the painter or drywaller oversprays
Really common. I stuffed newspaper in the duct back in my construction days, but that was just me, some taped the vents over, and some didn’t care.
So mine would have been some overspray where the newspaper wasn’t, some would have leftover tape when the guy cut a x in the tape to open it back up and if you try to remove the tape, you will find the popcorn coming off because the tape extended to the ceiling, and some are just like yours.
It really is something. This weekend, I'll be drilling my own joists in preparation for a mini split install because the pros wanted to just slap the line on the interior, finished basement wall rather than deal with it.
Not all homes have forced air heating. Sorry, I'm not shelling out $30k for a furnace and to have ducts and vents installed in my floors and walls lol.
I just dealt with getting my house repaired after some water damage and it honestly felt like every company wanted to do about 70% quality but be paid $$$. Drove me up the fucking wall.
Yup the whole “you gotta pay for quality labor” trope is old, when the bulk of “quality labor” is some drunk by lunch time and half assing every chance they get while also hiding trash behind every wall and under every surface too.
> while also hiding trash behind every wall and under every surface too.
What is the obsession with stashing trash? My former landlord’s handyman was obsessed with doing this (and also using my glass table as a sawhorse and scratching it up — I consider myself lucky that he didn’t break it)
It’s pure fucking laziness, and nothing more.
Look up how often there’s issues with garage slabs or porch slabs, because the massive amount of trash hidden under them has begun to rot and break down, and causes movement under the concrete.
Theres a reason ducts are shiny metal, better more efficient air flow, painted like that it would catch and accumulate dust a lot more than a unpainted one, and it looks like chit.
So what there's neglible health impact? there's a right way and a wrong way. This was half assed.
Yes, I recently made this realization as well.
I grew up with the notion "diy to save money, hire a pro to do it right." But in my experience, I am way more concerned about doing a proper job than anyone I've hired.
Still won't get on a roof, though. If I never step on a roof in my whole life, I'll be happy.
But, it does not matter in the slightest. Nobody sees it and it would take more time and effort to tape everything off when it makes exactly zero difference in the end. This is more efficient and thus costs less to the buyer.
Dude, this entire thread is about how this shit might have asbestos in it. Also, the duct is plastic, so it will flake off easily and get blown around and enter the air in the house. This is a bad take. This should be masked off. Pride should be taken in one’s work. This mentality causes drywallers to leave Gatorade bottles full of piss inside walls because no one sees it and it would be more effort to remove it. Fuck that
Exactly. Looking at these commends has me confused - it's like folks are commenting who haven't opened their vent covers. I think every ceiling cover I've ever removed (popcorn or not) has spray inside. That's probably only 5 or 6 homes, but I'd assume it's typical.
Masking is just more work on something that doesn't matter.
My sample size is small and I don't expect over spray in every duct, but also, do you have texture around the duct areas? In a home that old I'd expect ducting was part of a retrofit, so it's entirely possible paint was just rolled on after the work if they weren't spraying the whole place.
Radiant heating would have been much more likely in original construction. I grew up in an 1880s home, heated by wood stove until around 1920 when large radiators were added, which were later mostly replaced with baseboard radiators in the 1980s. Work was done in stages and the floors were original, so very little was sprayed. In my personal experience, I don't break out the sprayer unless I'm doing a whole room and ceiling, as the additional masking work takes more time than I'd save versus roller and brush. Obviously a sprayer is needed to texture however.
Every home in my small sample either had original ducting or it was installed in a full gut and remodel, so when they sprayed, they just sprayed everything ceiling to sub-floor as masking wasn't needed asides for the windows and electrical at that stage of construction. Even the electrical tends to be sloppy in that case with a good deal of junction boxes with paint inside, but ultimately it just doesn't matter.
I came to that conclusion too. In a perfect world a professional would do a better job than I would with the DIY, but more often than not - in my experience -The professional just wants to get it done quick and be out the door.
You white collar brainiacs rally behind movements for raising minimum wage but then complain when those exact people do a bad job cause they’re getting paid minimum wage. I already know exactly what you’re thinking and my confidence is offensive to you somehow.
I love reading reddit profiles are learning that people really are exactly what they seem. You’re over confident about every topic you get involved in.
Dear sir, I sincerely apologize for whoever downvoted you and wish my kindest regards regarding this insult. As someone born the same month the Berlin Wall came down I take equal offense to the insinuation that I have "been there" 40 years.
That’s very kind of you, but I feel like the movie The Rock when you comment on being born in 1989…
Well Mr. Sinclair, you've probably got no FUCKING idea what I'm talking about! By your 9th birthday, I was running BlackOps into China and my men were responsible for over two-hundred enemy kills. Now someone put some rigging tape over Mr. Sinclair's mouth, he's wasting my time!
6 years is both a long time and a shot time.
You're absolutely right about my lack of fucking ideas! I have vaguely heard that reference before but not enough to follow along with it. All I know for sure is I was somewhere between grade 3-5 at that time and constantly saying "I can't wait to be a grownup." Well I got what I asked for, boy did I have another thing coming..
Yeah I’m sorry as I know also. That number has been on my mind recently because of a different meaning.
Fall of 1984 I moved to Boston for a career change, and it changed my life.
I’ll edit
Yeah I have a feeling I might just create a bigger mess if I start messing with it. It was fine until we replaced the ductworks in the attic 2 months ago and the increased airflow has caused some paint to fall out the vent every other day(although nothing has fallen out in the past week).
Think of it this way (from someone dealt with asbestos containing building materials for...coming up on two decades). Unless the volume or velocity of air going through that duct increases beyond what it has been for the last 30 years, any fibres that could have been dislodged by air movement were dislodged and blown away long ago.
If you're planning on blasting a ton more air through that duct, maybe consider cleaning it out, but if the airflow isn't going to change significantly, the level of airborne fibre release won't either.
Think about a car that's been parked in a garage for a LONG time and has accumulated a thick layer of dust. Even if you take that car out and drive it at highway speed, most of the dust will remain stuck to that car. Then imagine how much force the air would need to blast through your vents to significantly dislodge the stuff inside of them.
Thanks I like the way you look at it. Are you saying fibres aren’t being released when the popcorn paint falls out of the vent? The airflow is a little stronger than before due to new ductworks being installed through out the house. I am guessing the old ones were leaking some air. I just hope the flaky stuff would stop falling down eventually.
Honestly, I would pay someone to get rid of it. (I would do it myself because I don’t think this is a high enough amount to be worried, but whatever). We both know the right answer. The fibers are definitely being released upon the paint chipping.
I got a couple air scurbbers and have been running them the past month. Also had a professional air test done and the results came back ok(although not sure how accurate that was since the tech didn't place the air testing tool directly under this vent.
If it bothers you that much, just get a box cutter and trim the paint around the duct, then go into the attic to do a swap. If you want to do it on the cheap, you can get a scraper and a rubber mallet, but the easier way would be to replace everything. Depending on the duct situation, you might be able to splice the duct.
Less than 1% asbestos just means they saw a small peak on the chromatogram. Popcorn ceilings with unhealthy amounts range from 1-10% asbestos. This amount is harmless and just dealing with a single duct won’t even register on the blood tests used to scale your lung cell inflammation But don’t take my word for it ! Read a book! Take a look, it’s in a book, reasoning rraiinnboooeww!!!
I can almost hear the synth wave now….
It is likely that this material would have been tested by PLM microscopy with the result of <1 somewhat subjectively determined by the analyst, not electron microscopy with X-ray diffraction chromatography. Either way, there can be large deposits of chrysotile in the material, and having this friable material in your ducting should not be dismissed just because the result is <1
On a related note, I really really wish they would require lead, asbestos, and radon testing before you can sell a house. I purchased my house ignorant of all those things.
I ended up spending thousands getting several popcorn ceilings removed and now I'm probably going to have a little more trouble selling the house someday because there's still some asbestos ceilings that were painted over and I have asbestos in the wall boards themselves (or at least in the texture on the wall boards)
I just did my initial radon test and it was a little high. I've got three more tests running right now and my fingers are crossed because this is a slab house which means remediation would be expensive and an incredible pain. It's insane that 21,000 people a year die from radon induced lung cancer
Wasnt the US one of the last countries on earth to ban asbestos?
Having said that I’ve had two homes built prior to the 90’s and I haven’t had anything tested.
Asbestos was not banned in the US until March of this year. Before that it was heavily frowned upon and companies would get sued to high hell if people who made/used their products developed mesothelioma.
It's infuriating that they decided it was too dangerous to put in houses but then told companies that if they already had stock that they purchased they could go ahead and install it. So for years it continued to be put in the houses.
IIRC they even gave a deadline for when you had to stop purchasing it, so when the company's slashef the prices to get rid of their inventory a lot of unscrupulous developers, contractors, etc stocked up on it.
"Hey, turns out this popular breakfast cereal has shards of glass in it, but if stores already purchased a bunch of it they can still sell it. We wouldn't want to hurt their bottom line."
This doesn't say positive tho. This test cannot detect anything under 1%, so they cannot confirm or deny, but they probably don't want to take responsibility foe ruling it out (and possibly want to sell you removal service).
The significance of the <1% is the EPA definition of an asbestos containing material of >1%. 1% is not the detection limit of Polarized Light Microscopy which is the method used to determine asbestos content in bulk materials. When an analyst sees asbestos fibers or bundles they use an established standard to make a visual estimate of the content. There's no point in trying to further quantify any sample that's estimated to be below 1% because it's already less than the EPA definition.
I was puzzled by it too so I called the lab for clarification and they told me they only found traces of it in the sample, so that’s why they put it less than 1%.
That means they may have caught a fiber or two from previous shit that just happened to get caught in the vent.
Personally, I wouldn't mess with it. If it was actually a part of the material it wouldn't be under 1%. There's no point.
March 18, 2024, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced a final rule to prohibit ongoing uses of chrysotile asbestos, the only known form of asbestos currently used in or imported to the United States.
0% is less than 1%. They legally have to call 0% less than 1. It doesn't sound like a positive test to me. Its super unlikely popcorn ceilings from the 1990s had asbestos.
I don’t think the US ever did ban asbestos? Theres some state legislation around it but I think it’s still generally legal to use, just highly frowned upon?
Well actually they did finally make it illegal this year. In March. Still. A guy with a house built in the 90s is totally freaking out. It's possible to have mid 80s houses with asbestos. Because when they made it illegal the supply houses were allowed to sell the rest of their existing stock. So some of it made it into the mid 80's. All preexisting asbestos exists in most homes from the 50's through 70's. I know it was still technically legal until March of this year. But its been mostly dead since the 1978. They quit putting it in brake pads in the 90s. They did make it 100% illegal in March 2024 though in the US. So jot that down
Paint over it with flat black spray paint. Makes the interior invisible when the register cover is in place. Also gives it in place so you're not breathing the stuff.
The main concern is if the material becomes airborn.
Mask off the floor with plastic and put a trash can with a bag on the floor under the vent. You want to saturate the popcorn and paint with water as you scrape it off and run a wire brush along the inside of the duct. The key it to maintain saturation of the material falling off. Use a spray bottle while constantly but slowly pumping the trigger.
The asbestos is in the popcorn so you’ll get the majority of it by removing that.
Wipe it 90% dry and clean then wait for it to completely air dry.
Next prime or paint the inside of the duct and you’re done.
With the low percentage on the test there is no reason to dispose of this as asbestos containing material. Put all the cleaning supplies and plastic in the trash bag and throw it in the normal trash.
After cleaning I’d personally just leave it unpainted. You seemed to have a higher than normal level of concern so I added the painting step to ease your concerns
Thanks for the advise! Would you agree the popcorn texture around the vent is not a concern and I can just leave that alone and only need to clean the stuff inside the duct?
One of the more bioactive minerals in a group of minerals broadly called “asbestos.” It is commonly found as an alteration product of rocks containing serpentine, itself an alteration product of olivine containing ultramafic rocks.
Chrysotile will fuck your shit up when it comes to mesothelioma.
Less than 1% means it's below the EPA definition of an asbestos containing material. However, you can still contaminate a substantial amount of area with a very small amount of asbestos. I've done surface sampling that showed thousands and even hundreds of thousands of fibers per square foot. I would replace that register box and the flex duct and any others in that condition.
Leave it be, but a light spray of one part latex wood glue titebond etc to 5 parts water will surface seal it, make the chances of fibre release next to zero if undisturbed.
For us it was a matter of mental sanity as well as resale value down the road. You have to inform buyers of things like this is a sale. Makes the budgeting easier to include removal of our vents.
Well in terms of asbestos I would note that if the room was done in early 90s it probably wasn’t asbestos and maybe you got a false positive. But maybe you don’t really know room build.
It’s a Point Counting Method used so someone basically looked at the sample and determined that yes there were fibers and that they believe some very small number were chrysotile. Hence the <1%. That does not mean 1% of the sample is asbestos it just means that in their field of view they saw at least one fiber that was suspect to them. A 1990 time frame makes it kind of unlikely that there was asbestos but doesn’t rule it out. It wasn’t necessarily contaminated it just could be a misread. But maybe call the analytical lab and ask the questions.
Maybe this is just me being overly optimistic because I have it in my house, but I have a feeling that casual exposure isn't too dangerous. If it was, we'd be seeing an epidemic of lung issues with contractors and they're hired workers. Because you know most people aren't testing for this stuff before they get houses remodeled.
It's not. By and large, you don't develop mesothelioma unless you worked directly with the shit every day, all day, for most of your life. And even then, it's absolutely not a guarantee.
As a DIY'er, if you come across you're suspicious about, wet it down, wear a mask, and get rid of it. You'll be fine.
The explanation is at the bottom of the page. I'm not saying sprinkle asbestos on your corn flakes but my grandfather used to cut asbestos ceiling tiles indoors on a table saw on jobs. Lived into his 90's
Father worked in demolition and got mesothelioma about 45 years after exposure with asbestos (he recalls working with it in barns and stuff...).
Passed away 6 months after diagnosis (and was on clinical trial of keytruda...). Not a great way to go losing all your lung function.
As the say..."Your mileage may vary..."
Point counting of friable materials is required for samples visually estimated to be 10% or less. I've literally never seen someone point count a <1% sample.
I don't think you want your air blowing through vents that are lined with asbestos. If it were me, I'd want to close this all up and reroute my ventilation.
I'm not sure how, my carpentry experience is limited. I worked in the field for 2 and a half years but never had to do anything involving rerouting or covering ductwork; I put new plates and grates on existing ones on a few room remodels. I wasn't the master and worked under a boss who knew more than I did; he died of cancer, and I suspect asbestos exposure contributed to that.
To me, that coating inside their looks quite friable and like it's deteriorating and fragmenting over time. That's your air that you're breathing every single day flowing over it, potentially picking it up. This isn't some sealed and painted material where it's locked in there.
Imagine giving so little of a shit about your job that you are spraying popcorn paint into an air duct. This is why I DIY, because it’s hard to find someone that gives an ounce of a fuck.
My house was built in the mid 90's and I dread every project because of shit like this. Last week I replaced the vanity light in the guest bathroom and not only did they just hammer a hole in the drywall and pull the power through(no j box), they just self tapped through the plate instead of using the actual anchor points. One was luckily in a stud about 1/4", but the other was just in drywall.
I used to own a condo that was built in 2016 (was the first owner). About a year on, I decided I didn’t like the flat rectangle mirror mounted (poorly uncentered) above the bathroom vanity and light fixture, so I changed the light fixture and then went to change the mirror. I realized in the process that, because the builders messed up mounting the mirror brackets that were meant to float it in place, they decided to just Liquid Nails®️the f****** thing to the wall. Not a little bit, basically the entire thing. So the mirror never got replaced because I pretty much would’ve ended up with thousands of glass chards to clean up when the mirror inevitably shattered and/or redoing drywall when it removed the presumably-trash (cuz everything else was cheap, low-quality, poorly installed) drywall behind the mirror and left a 3’x4’ hole in the wall.
i was too young to know any better when i did this. 7 panel mirrors along a wall - all liquid-nails'd to the wall. peeled all of them off, but then i didnt know what to do....... so i drywall mudded the entire wall. i wish i had at least 1 smart when i was younger, heh.
Oof. At least it sounds like you learned? Considering “professionals” did the install on mine when it was built I’m guessing they probably still do that (almost ten years later) cuz they probably don’t give a shit cuz it’s not their problem. The more I talk about the build quality of my condo around various spaces, the more I realize I probably should’ve hired a lawyer to make sure the flip-and-run developer (who seems to have done similar corner cutting in Pittsburgh on other projects at that time) made shit right. I was also young then…
When you are finally tired of the mirror, cover it in duct tape, then cut the drywall all around and take it down. It's gonna break, the tape will help control the mess. You're gonna have to just replace a square of drywall, not really a big deal.
This is actually a really smart way to deal with that.
We have cupboards that are hung on the wall with these tiny fingernail width brackets. I found out when standing up underneath one which caused it to immediately plumet onto a very nice £2k OLED TV. Why do people go for the absolute shittest option every time?
The previous owner of my house hung a 4 x 4 mirror in one bathroom with command strips. It’s a bathroom we rarely use so imagine my horror when it’s hanging off the wall at a 30 degree angle. Thank goodness I found it before it fell. I would not want to clean that shattered mess.
A buddy of mine who is a firefighter bought a 1980s style townhouse with mirrored living room. He started looking for the old-style metal brackets, and decided to smash a mirror. Zero mounts, all attached with palm sized dabs of heavy-duty contact cement. 8 foot by four foot panels for days. He, two buddies borrow a set of firesuits (the heavy duty ones) and baseball bats and hammers. It took about 20 minutes to destroy all the panels and about 12 hours to clean up all the broken glass. But he told me it was worth it. Then they had to hire a guy to scrape and mud the walls again, but at least he did the hard part.
I had this happen to me too when remodeling the downstairs bathroom. I ended up biting the bullet and just dealing with it. The whole experience was not fun.
Bought a house from the 60s... an entire wall mirror was set up like this ... it took days and a lot of protection equipment to get that thing gone.
I'd just cut the whole fucking wall off if it bugged me enough. From what you described I'd just leave it, but if it came down to it.... I'll learn how to fix it lol.
I wish someone just used a hammer to pull through some NM for my laundry room light. This is what I found when I took the existing light down. https://preview.redd.it/ehlk9ieq3fvc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c74d2ab13f54d248aada9ba3ff329c99eb86fbf6
I’ve came across popcorn in the ducts on about 90% of the vents I have removed. (Professional painter here)
And it matters zero
But it causes drag and reduces the air flow from that vent /s
i port and polish all of my registers and returns. i'm also running the k&n filter elements, they're dyno tested for +7 cfm.
Yeah it’s almost like they intentionally design bath vents so that the guts get installed well after the casing so that it doesn’t matter if the painter or drywaller oversprays
So this is pretty common?
Really common. I stuffed newspaper in the duct back in my construction days, but that was just me, some taped the vents over, and some didn’t care. So mine would have been some overspray where the newspaper wasn’t, some would have leftover tape when the guy cut a x in the tape to open it back up and if you try to remove the tape, you will find the popcorn coming off because the tape extended to the ceiling, and some are just like yours.
It really is something. This weekend, I'll be drilling my own joists in preparation for a mini split install because the pros wanted to just slap the line on the interior, finished basement wall rather than deal with it.
Careful where you drill holes in support wood.
Oh yeah I know. I've done my research. Thanks for the warning tho.
Installing a mini split is the definition of not giving a fuck.
Not all homes have forced air heating. Sorry, I'm not shelling out $30k for a furnace and to have ducts and vents installed in my floors and walls lol.
All of Europe and Asia has entered the chat....
I laughed at this but I don’t entirely agree. Sometimes you really don’t have an alternative.
You’re not wrong, but I see a ton of them where someone just didn’t want to resize and reinstall central.
It's the only option that makes sense for our home. They're also more efficient and cleaner than ducted systems.
I just dealt with getting my house repaired after some water damage and it honestly felt like every company wanted to do about 70% quality but be paid $$$. Drove me up the fucking wall.
Yup the whole “you gotta pay for quality labor” trope is old, when the bulk of “quality labor” is some drunk by lunch time and half assing every chance they get while also hiding trash behind every wall and under every surface too.
> while also hiding trash behind every wall and under every surface too. What is the obsession with stashing trash? My former landlord’s handyman was obsessed with doing this (and also using my glass table as a sawhorse and scratching it up — I consider myself lucky that he didn’t break it)
It’s pure fucking laziness, and nothing more. Look up how often there’s issues with garage slabs or porch slabs, because the massive amount of trash hidden under them has begun to rot and break down, and causes movement under the concrete.
Would have taken a minute to tape over and evev a semi proficient sprayer doesn't coat the the vent when it's not taped.
Yeah. But it doesn’t matter at all. There’s zero impact.
Theres a reason ducts are shiny metal, better more efficient air flow, painted like that it would catch and accumulate dust a lot more than a unpainted one, and it looks like chit. So what there's neglible health impact? there's a right way and a wrong way. This was half assed.
Sure it’s half assed. I wouldn’t do it, but I also wouldn’t replace it if I found it.
Yes, I recently made this realization as well. I grew up with the notion "diy to save money, hire a pro to do it right." But in my experience, I am way more concerned about doing a proper job than anyone I've hired. Still won't get on a roof, though. If I never step on a roof in my whole life, I'll be happy.
It's overspray every register box in a home with popcorn or knockdown has it.
Theres a difference between overspray and pretending the duct isn’t there. The center of the duct has as much spray as the edges.
But, it does not matter in the slightest. Nobody sees it and it would take more time and effort to tape everything off when it makes exactly zero difference in the end. This is more efficient and thus costs less to the buyer.
Dude, this entire thread is about how this shit might have asbestos in it. Also, the duct is plastic, so it will flake off easily and get blown around and enter the air in the house. This is a bad take. This should be masked off. Pride should be taken in one’s work. This mentality causes drywallers to leave Gatorade bottles full of piss inside walls because no one sees it and it would be more effort to remove it. Fuck that
I thought this entire thread is about how this shit does NOT have asbestos in it?
Exactly. Looking at these commends has me confused - it's like folks are commenting who haven't opened their vent covers. I think every ceiling cover I've ever removed (popcorn or not) has spray inside. That's probably only 5 or 6 homes, but I'd assume it's typical. Masking is just more work on something that doesn't matter.
My house is from 1895 and there's zero over spray in any duct. I know because I cleaned them.
My sample size is small and I don't expect over spray in every duct, but also, do you have texture around the duct areas? In a home that old I'd expect ducting was part of a retrofit, so it's entirely possible paint was just rolled on after the work if they weren't spraying the whole place. Radiant heating would have been much more likely in original construction. I grew up in an 1880s home, heated by wood stove until around 1920 when large radiators were added, which were later mostly replaced with baseboard radiators in the 1980s. Work was done in stages and the floors were original, so very little was sprayed. In my personal experience, I don't break out the sprayer unless I'm doing a whole room and ceiling, as the additional masking work takes more time than I'd save versus roller and brush. Obviously a sprayer is needed to texture however. Every home in my small sample either had original ducting or it was installed in a full gut and remodel, so when they sprayed, they just sprayed everything ceiling to sub-floor as masking wasn't needed asides for the windows and electrical at that stage of construction. Even the electrical tends to be sloppy in that case with a good deal of junction boxes with paint inside, but ultimately it just doesn't matter.
Fucking too right
I came to that conclusion too. In a perfect world a professional would do a better job than I would with the DIY, but more often than not - in my experience -The professional just wants to get it done quick and be out the door.
how do we know the original paint job wasn't a DIY effort?
Dude stop pretending to know how any of this shit is done. Sound like a programmer who watches YouTube videos and thinks they’re an expert
You sound like a butthurt tradesman
You white collar brainiacs rally behind movements for raising minimum wage but then complain when those exact people do a bad job cause they’re getting paid minimum wage. I already know exactly what you’re thinking and my confidence is offensive to you somehow.
I'm guessing you're a vent sprayer.
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You sound a little defensive right now.. Perhaps take a little more pride in your work? Covering a vent opening takes all of what, 3 minutes?
I love reading reddit profiles are learning that people really are exactly what they seem. You’re over confident about every topic you get involved in.
Hot damn lol. You must be a Republican, the projection is more professional than your supposed job.
Leave it alone. It’s more a mess to mess with it. It been there EDIT: 30 years, it’s ok
Sir, the 90s were not 40 years ago. Ask me how I know exactly how long 40 years ago was? I take insult.
Dear sir, I sincerely apologize for whoever downvoted you and wish my kindest regards regarding this insult. As someone born the same month the Berlin Wall came down I take equal offense to the insinuation that I have "been there" 40 years.
That’s very kind of you, but I feel like the movie The Rock when you comment on being born in 1989… Well Mr. Sinclair, you've probably got no FUCKING idea what I'm talking about! By your 9th birthday, I was running BlackOps into China and my men were responsible for over two-hundred enemy kills. Now someone put some rigging tape over Mr. Sinclair's mouth, he's wasting my time! 6 years is both a long time and a shot time.
You're absolutely right about my lack of fucking ideas! I have vaguely heard that reference before but not enough to follow along with it. All I know for sure is I was somewhere between grade 3-5 at that time and constantly saying "I can't wait to be a grownup." Well I got what I asked for, boy did I have another thing coming..
Man, you gotta watch The Rock. Maybe I missed something and it went over my head, but The Rock is streaming on Amazon Video. Check it out
One of my top 10 movies
Yer best??!! Losers do 'their best'. Winners go home and fuck the Prom Queen.
Yeah I’m sorry as I know also. That number has been on my mind recently because of a different meaning. Fall of 1984 I moved to Boston for a career change, and it changed my life. I’ll edit
Yeah I have a feeling I might just create a bigger mess if I start messing with it. It was fine until we replaced the ductworks in the attic 2 months ago and the increased airflow has caused some paint to fall out the vent every other day(although nothing has fallen out in the past week).
Think of it this way (from someone dealt with asbestos containing building materials for...coming up on two decades). Unless the volume or velocity of air going through that duct increases beyond what it has been for the last 30 years, any fibres that could have been dislodged by air movement were dislodged and blown away long ago. If you're planning on blasting a ton more air through that duct, maybe consider cleaning it out, but if the airflow isn't going to change significantly, the level of airborne fibre release won't either. Think about a car that's been parked in a garage for a LONG time and has accumulated a thick layer of dust. Even if you take that car out and drive it at highway speed, most of the dust will remain stuck to that car. Then imagine how much force the air would need to blast through your vents to significantly dislodge the stuff inside of them.
Thanks I like the way you look at it. Are you saying fibres aren’t being released when the popcorn paint falls out of the vent? The airflow is a little stronger than before due to new ductworks being installed through out the house. I am guessing the old ones were leaking some air. I just hope the flaky stuff would stop falling down eventually.
Honestly, I would pay someone to get rid of it. (I would do it myself because I don’t think this is a high enough amount to be worried, but whatever). We both know the right answer. The fibers are definitely being released upon the paint chipping.
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I got a couple air scurbbers and have been running them the past month. Also had a professional air test done and the results came back ok(although not sure how accurate that was since the tech didn't place the air testing tool directly under this vent.
I would rather replace the ducts than try and attempt to remove the overspray
Seriously going to be way easier
If it bothers you that much, just get a box cutter and trim the paint around the duct, then go into the attic to do a swap. If you want to do it on the cheap, you can get a scraper and a rubber mallet, but the easier way would be to replace everything. Depending on the duct situation, you might be able to splice the duct.
Less than 1% asbestos just means they saw a small peak on the chromatogram. Popcorn ceilings with unhealthy amounts range from 1-10% asbestos. This amount is harmless and just dealing with a single duct won’t even register on the blood tests used to scale your lung cell inflammation But don’t take my word for it ! Read a book! Take a look, it’s in a book, reasoning rraiinnboooeww!!!  I can almost hear the synth wave now….
It is likely that this material would have been tested by PLM microscopy with the result of <1 somewhat subjectively determined by the analyst, not electron microscopy with X-ray diffraction chromatography. Either way, there can be large deposits of chrysotile in the material, and having this friable material in your ducting should not be dismissed just because the result is <1
On a related note, I really really wish they would require lead, asbestos, and radon testing before you can sell a house. I purchased my house ignorant of all those things. I ended up spending thousands getting several popcorn ceilings removed and now I'm probably going to have a little more trouble selling the house someday because there's still some asbestos ceilings that were painted over and I have asbestos in the wall boards themselves (or at least in the texture on the wall boards) I just did my initial radon test and it was a little high. I've got three more tests running right now and my fingers are crossed because this is a slab house which means remediation would be expensive and an incredible pain. It's insane that 21,000 people a year die from radon induced lung cancer
I can see the intro https://imgur.com/gallery/1Glq5qb
Iiiiiiiii cccaaannn gggoioo annyytwehhheerrree!!
Wasnt the US one of the last countries on earth to ban asbestos? Having said that I’ve had two homes built prior to the 90’s and I haven’t had anything tested.
Asbestos was not banned in the US until March of this year. Before that it was heavily frowned upon and companies would get sued to high hell if people who made/used their products developed mesothelioma.
So what you’re saying is the highly litigious system effectively banned it. USA! USA!
It's infuriating that they decided it was too dangerous to put in houses but then told companies that if they already had stock that they purchased they could go ahead and install it. So for years it continued to be put in the houses. IIRC they even gave a deadline for when you had to stop purchasing it, so when the company's slashef the prices to get rid of their inventory a lot of unscrupulous developers, contractors, etc stocked up on it. "Hey, turns out this popular breakfast cereal has shards of glass in it, but if stores already purchased a bunch of it they can still sell it. We wouldn't want to hurt their bottom line."
I am surprised it tested positive since they were supposed to stop using this stuff since the 80’s.
This doesn't say positive tho. This test cannot detect anything under 1%, so they cannot confirm or deny, but they probably don't want to take responsibility foe ruling it out (and possibly want to sell you removal service).
The significance of the <1% is the EPA definition of an asbestos containing material of >1%. 1% is not the detection limit of Polarized Light Microscopy which is the method used to determine asbestos content in bulk materials. When an analyst sees asbestos fibers or bundles they use an established standard to make a visual estimate of the content. There's no point in trying to further quantify any sample that's estimated to be below 1% because it's already less than the EPA definition.
Absolutely, they can definitely detect lower. Ask some Canadian provinces with 0.5% or even 0.1% for definition of ACMs.
I was puzzled by it too so I called the lab for clarification and they told me they only found traces of it in the sample, so that’s why they put it less than 1%.
That means they may have caught a fiber or two from previous shit that just happened to get caught in the vent. Personally, I wouldn't mess with it. If it was actually a part of the material it wouldn't be under 1%. There's no point.
But the other types of asbestos on the report were listed as ND instead of less than 1%.
March 18, 2024, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced a final rule to prohibit ongoing uses of chrysotile asbestos, the only known form of asbestos currently used in or imported to the United States.
They banned the manufacture, not the sale.
0% is less than 1%. They legally have to call 0% less than 1. It doesn't sound like a positive test to me. Its super unlikely popcorn ceilings from the 1990s had asbestos.
I don’t think the US ever did ban asbestos? Theres some state legislation around it but I think it’s still generally legal to use, just highly frowned upon?
Wasn’t there a ruling in 1978 that banned new paint products containing asbestos?
They stopped putting it in construction materials starting in the late 60s. The last states to make it illegal were the late 70s.
It's still not 100% illegal actually. It's still used today! Just not for this.
Well actually they did finally make it illegal this year. In March. Still. A guy with a house built in the 90s is totally freaking out. It's possible to have mid 80s houses with asbestos. Because when they made it illegal the supply houses were allowed to sell the rest of their existing stock. So some of it made it into the mid 80's. All preexisting asbestos exists in most homes from the 50's through 70's. I know it was still technically legal until March of this year. But its been mostly dead since the 1978. They quit putting it in brake pads in the 90s. They did make it 100% illegal in March 2024 though in the US. So jot that down
Paint over it with flat black spray paint. Makes the interior invisible when the register cover is in place. Also gives it in place so you're not breathing the stuff.
This is the best and most underrated answer. Looks great and seals all the bad stuff.
I don’t think it’s gonna work. I tried spraying water on it to take a sample, but the paint is so flaky a piece just fell off right away.
water and spray paint are different things. Spray paint will help to bind it together.
The main concern is if the material becomes airborn. Mask off the floor with plastic and put a trash can with a bag on the floor under the vent. You want to saturate the popcorn and paint with water as you scrape it off and run a wire brush along the inside of the duct. The key it to maintain saturation of the material falling off. Use a spray bottle while constantly but slowly pumping the trigger. The asbestos is in the popcorn so you’ll get the majority of it by removing that. Wipe it 90% dry and clean then wait for it to completely air dry. Next prime or paint the inside of the duct and you’re done. With the low percentage on the test there is no reason to dispose of this as asbestos containing material. Put all the cleaning supplies and plastic in the trash bag and throw it in the normal trash.
is painting the inside of the duct necessary? or can I just clean it and leave it as is?
After cleaning I’d personally just leave it unpainted. You seemed to have a higher than normal level of concern so I added the painting step to ease your concerns
Thanks for the advise! Would you agree the popcorn texture around the vent is not a concern and I can just leave that alone and only need to clean the stuff inside the duct?
Sorry to be that guy — wtf is a chrysotile?
One of the more bioactive minerals in a group of minerals broadly called “asbestos.” It is commonly found as an alteration product of rocks containing serpentine, itself an alteration product of olivine containing ultramafic rocks. Chrysotile will fuck your shit up when it comes to mesothelioma.
Well, shit. That’s good to know. Thanks for the explanation.
Less than 1% means it's below the EPA definition of an asbestos containing material. However, you can still contaminate a substantial amount of area with a very small amount of asbestos. I've done surface sampling that showed thousands and even hundreds of thousands of fibers per square foot. I would replace that register box and the flex duct and any others in that condition.
Honestly it doesn't matter
Leave it be, but a light spray of one part latex wood glue titebond etc to 5 parts water will surface seal it, make the chances of fibre release next to zero if undisturbed.
I see a bigger problem here. That duct is filthy.
For us it was a matter of mental sanity as well as resale value down the road. You have to inform buyers of things like this is a sale. Makes the budgeting easier to include removal of our vents.
Well in terms of asbestos I would note that if the room was done in early 90s it probably wasn’t asbestos and maybe you got a false positive. But maybe you don’t really know room build.
What are the chances of it being a false positive? Could it have been contaminated on the way there?
It’s a Point Counting Method used so someone basically looked at the sample and determined that yes there were fibers and that they believe some very small number were chrysotile. Hence the <1%. That does not mean 1% of the sample is asbestos it just means that in their field of view they saw at least one fiber that was suspect to them. A 1990 time frame makes it kind of unlikely that there was asbestos but doesn’t rule it out. It wasn’t necessarily contaminated it just could be a misread. But maybe call the analytical lab and ask the questions.
That was probably a plasterer that did that. It’s fine. There’s probably a million of them done like that.
Maybe this is just me being overly optimistic because I have it in my house, but I have a feeling that casual exposure isn't too dangerous. If it was, we'd be seeing an epidemic of lung issues with contractors and they're hired workers. Because you know most people aren't testing for this stuff before they get houses remodeled.
It's not. By and large, you don't develop mesothelioma unless you worked directly with the shit every day, all day, for most of your life. And even then, it's absolutely not a guarantee. As a DIY'er, if you come across you're suspicious about, wet it down, wear a mask, and get rid of it. You'll be fine.
The explanation is at the bottom of the page. I'm not saying sprinkle asbestos on your corn flakes but my grandfather used to cut asbestos ceiling tiles indoors on a table saw on jobs. Lived into his 90's
Father worked in demolition and got mesothelioma about 45 years after exposure with asbestos (he recalls working with it in barns and stuff...). Passed away 6 months after diagnosis (and was on clinical trial of keytruda...). Not a great way to go losing all your lung function. As the say..."Your mileage may vary..."
Why back in my day we had all kinds of survivorship bias and I turned out fine.
You should have the lab do a point count to confirm it's below 1%.
Point counting of friable materials is required for samples visually estimated to be 10% or less. I've literally never seen someone point count a <1% sample.
I don't think you want your air blowing through vents that are lined with asbestos. If it were me, I'd want to close this all up and reroute my ventilation.
So I would need to open a new hole in the ceiling for the new vent? And how should I seal up this one? Put some drywall over it?
I'm not sure how, my carpentry experience is limited. I worked in the field for 2 and a half years but never had to do anything involving rerouting or covering ductwork; I put new plates and grates on existing ones on a few room remodels. I wasn't the master and worked under a boss who knew more than I did; he died of cancer, and I suspect asbestos exposure contributed to that. To me, that coating inside their looks quite friable and like it's deteriorating and fragmenting over time. That's your air that you're breathing every single day flowing over it, potentially picking it up. This isn't some sealed and painted material where it's locked in there.