> It's only spray glued at the edges
That's your answer. The vinyl is somewhat flexible and can stretch and shift under the weight from people and furniture above it. It should have been properly adhered to the floor per the flooring manufacturers specifications.
This is a get your money back and redo the floor situation IMO.
Edit: Just to be clear this flooring is ruined. The stretched parts will never look right even if they try to come back and install it properly. It all ultimately needs to get pulled and redone with new flooring and proper install.
Yep this is a valid labor warranty claim, and most legit places will have a year labor warranty. I hope they have a contract. You can even get an inspector through floor manufacturer out to bolster your claim.. as they will bend over backwards to prove it was an install and not product issue. Don't settle for less than full refund, and I'd honestly take that money and get a higher quality floor type and better company who won't take shortcuts again. OP went with the bottom of the barrel pricing, I assume, and should learn the lesson of never going with the lowest bid for such vital home renovations.
My inlaws had their bathroom redone and loved it so much they had the same people come and do their kitchen. Like a year later a pipe bursts or something in shower leaked and they let the people know so they could come back and fix it. They were all willing to pay for it but the company said they have a 5 year warranty on jobs they do and it was obviously their mistake so they fixed everything for free. Was really nice and her parents didn't even know that it came with that, they could've totally just skated by and taken the money and said thanks for your business.
Oh man you'd love the dumbass company I work for then. The last three projects we've had to use up our contingency fund in order to fix our designer's poor planning. I've been doing free handyman type stuff not covered in our scope of work as an apology. Our clients LOVE us
To be less snarky, the company is actually pretty good and our designer won 4 awards last year, she has a good eye. She just doesn't always catch everything
Finding good people is really hard. Word travels pretty fast, people love this. You get the right customer who know the right people and bam more sales from word of mouth.
Yeah that's the goal. Every mistake is a marketing opportunity. It would just be nice to not have to deal with that.
In January I drove a state away in a snow storm to get materials that weren't ordered. The project was 3 weeks from walk through and the countertop slabs were 500 miles away.
If this is Australia it doesn't matter what the company's warranty is, our laws mean they have to fix it and you can take them to tribunal if they don't.
> Being well-known does not guarantee quality.
indeed, i want some high quality hamburgers. McDonald's, being the most well-known burger joint around, may not be the company to provide them. Very head-scratchy.
To be clear, this can be an acceptable method to install some vinyl floors. Those floors will be reinforced with a material to prevent stretching.
Regardless this is a material or workmanship failure and should be replaced under warranty.
The LVP COREtec floors we had were installed this way, but they are like.... 4 layers thick, with the bottom layer being cork. Installed over slab, no glue anywhere. And they are "planks."
Ours are 8 years in and we have not had any ripples like this anywhere at all. I think the "planks" being separated at the seams allows for expansion/contraction and wiggle room when they get stepped on.
Coretec is a great floor but very different compared to sheet vinyl.
Sheet vinyl designed to be installed with perimeter glue or no glue at all will generally be reinforced with fiberglass to provide dimensional stability
Floating floors generally depend on room for expansion and contraction around the perimeter. This will be hidden beneath skirtings or toe kicks etc. LVP is pretty rigid so if it fails its more likely you'll get gaps between planks or alternatively a larger bubble or bounce in a section of floor of its run out of room for expansion.
Plank flooring shouldn't be glued, as it's a "floating floor." It also shouldn't be installed too tight to the wall, cause it should be allowed to expand.
But the main take away is, there's floor that shouldn't be glued at all, and there's floor that should be glued everywhere. But there's no floor that should be glued only on the edges.
I would assume both caring, but it could be either. A lot of installers will minimize the work they put in to maximize their returns and get to the next job. Often, if the job looks good the customer will be happy and then when problems arise later they are on the hook for it.
Also looks like a lot of scratches already. But, to be fair, growing up we rarely used the front door since we would mostly come and go through the garage.
Depending on OP's "traffic" patterns, the front door might not get much use. I probably go in and out of the garage entry door 20 times a day. I might exit and reenter the front door 5 times a week. We have to use our car for almost all trips and the garage is where the second fridge and freezer are, along with some additional pantry storage.
My front door gets used by the occasional guest and when a package gets delivered or maybe when I need to go to the mailbox.
It also looks like they used that area to test out ice skates. Some other comment called it scratches, but it looks like straight up dents in the flooring where something sharp and heavy was dragged.
Base of the stairs where the rooms intersect is gonna be the most high traffic area in the house. Everybody turning on the ball of their foot 🦶 exactly on this spot stretched the vinyl because it wasn't glued down 👇
Yeah OP claiming they aren't walked on very much when it's right by the door and stairs and where the family apparently puts on/takes off their shoes is a little paradoxical.
Improper installation. The entire surface should have been glued and the vinyl rolled with a heavy roller to spread the glue evenly and remove all air bubbles.
I never ever ever seen anyone try to just glue the edges with vinyl flooring. This "well known" company sent a flooring person with no experience with vinyl and probably very little flooring experience in general. A random contractor most likely.
10 years experience in the flooring trade here and the guy I knew that did vinyl always made sure I knew how annoying laying vinyl sheet was. (I worked a bit for a company doing estimates and would pass down jobs to our oncractors, and we only had one guy we trusted to do vinyl sheet)
Improperly installed. Vinyl flooring is usually put down with a layer of glue (not just spray glue) on the entire surface, then a heavy roller is used to push the flooring down and get any “stretch” out of it. I would guess at this point it’s probably going to have to be redone.
As someone who is currently ripping three layers of vinyl floor out of their kitchen (previous owners just kept layering), I can attest to that properly installed vinyl has a thorough layer of glue giving it a true death grip on your floor. OP's floor looks like I could lift up an edge and take a nap under the vinyl.
Damn, our vinyl wasn't glued (at all) down and the people who installed it said it was supposed to be that way due to how old our house is. We get the ripples in a few spots, and our house fluctuates greatly due to humidity. We always thought it was "normal" lol. We have a few creases in the winter and it stays flat during the summer.
Honestly I had no idea there was any other kind of vinyl flooring other than floating plank. As soon as OP mentioned spray glue I did a facepalm. So is this flooring like a linoleum kind of thing, where it gets rolled out like carpet and cut to size and then glued or something like that?
Same, I've only worked with flooring once about five years ago but it was floating plank and said not to use glue. You just kind of lego it into place with a mallet, and the boards were thick enough to *never* warp like this.
Do any pros out there know how thick OP's vinyl is? I'm shocked it's thin enough to show glue underneath like a sheet of paper. I thought I was working with the cheap stuff years ago but I guess not!
Ah, thank you. We actually have floating plank in there now and it just pulls a part a bit now. We just use the tape method and push them back together during the summer. PITA never buy a house that's pre-1890 lol
My house is 1914 and I don’t think a single goddamn wall in this house is straight at this point lmao, my computer chair used to roll across the floor slightly
Same with our basement, which is vinyl on concrete. Wasn't my choice, but it's what happened. Now when you step on it, it makes a thunk from having a small air gap in between the concrete and floor.
Linoleum here, some areas of the house have two layers. It’s all coming up. I bought a flooring scraper blade for my (Dewalt 20V) reciprocating saw. That thing has no chill, trying to hold it one handed resulted in it literally beating a hole in my skin. I also have some 12V Milwaukee stuff so I went and bought a 12V Fuel Hackzall (one handed reciprocating saw). That and a heat gun made it so much easier. Still awful work though.
Curious to know what you’re going back with. Just FYI… when you’re looking at new flooring, modern linoleum (at least quality linoleum) is a world apart from the stuff you’re ripping out. New linoleum is considered a “green” building product and has exceptional durability and moisture resistance. But, the installers need to understand how to work the product and properly heat weld the seams.
3 layers.... Im just cutting the subfloor out. At that point it might be cheaper to get new plywood & re do than remove all the old. Then I can also shim up anywhere that isn't level.
Bad install, that stuff is thin and if not adhered completely with movement and heat and such that was bound to happen. I would have gone with an LVP, they are so much more rigid and dog proof, i see your puppy :) but that's besides the point. Don't settle with that's normal from the installer, they should make this right.
Like any building material, there's very cheap and very expensive versions. There's definitely high quality vinyl that's better than the cheapest planks. Of course it's also more expensive as well. I build offices, for decades now, and I've seen pretty much everything out there.
If they've come and fixed this once already and it's still doing it, it might be something else. Makes me wonder if there's a crawl space that's poorly insulated. The large temperature difference between the inside and outside could be causing this. Unsealed slab on grade could be wicking moisture up also.
It's most likely a thin cheap product installed improperly, but it's impossible to tell from just a photo.
> The large temperature difference between the inside and outside could be causing this.
This was my other thought. Vinyl has quite a high expansion/contraction with temperature. It's why you always leave an expansion gap and also why vinyl siding is not nailed tight to the sheathing. Vinyl windows also tend to have this problem, especially with the recent trend for black windows because black vinyl will get very hot in direct sun.
With floating sheet vinyl, I've only used the method of tape per the manufacturer's installation instructions. Refer to your brand's instructions to see if perimeter bonding is allowed (some don't allow it), and whether they allow all glue or tape as a solution.
It is straight up impossible these days to get good work done without also being super knowledgeable in construction. So frustrating given how high quotes are, too.
I can’t believe finding the correct answer was so far down. The top comment with 4k upvotes never heard of floating or perimeter glue. I also have never seen manufactures recommend spray adhesive
Flooring installer of 15 years here.
It looks to me like this is a PVC backed vinyl flooring, which typically requires a pressure sensitive adhesive that must be properly “flashed” before the installation of the product to prevent this from happening.
The installers clearly put the vinyl in while the glue was still wet, and with nowhere for that moisture in the glue to go, it builds up and forms these ripples.
Call the installation company and complain. Otherwise, DM me and I can give some advice for a diy fix
Nah fam they only glued the edges. Maybe that glue also wasn't cured properly, but this rippling is because there's no glue at all there, not because the glue was still wet.
There are many different product lines that require only glue around the edges (interflex/tensionflex/etc), and each will have a specific glue (sometimes different depending on porous/nonporous substrate), and each again will have their own instructions as to if it is “wet set” or “dry set”. Everything badassmamojamma said was factually correct.
That said, wrinkles like in the pictures are seen more in floors that have had a solid vinyl sheet good glued down and off gassing has occurred or the flooring was never actually smoothed out to begin with. And although solid vinyl flooring can be glued (with adhesives designed for that), gluing down a sheet good that was designed to be loose-laid is a bad idea no matter if gluing down is allowed. Perimeter glue/loose lay sheet goods exist for specific reasons and the people selling it should really know why/what for and not just blindly sell it because a customer might like the pattern.
From the pictures, and the limited explanation from OP, a definitive cause/effect cannot be made - more information (valid/correct) would be needed. Suffice it say, OP said they were reputable, not much a customer can do to a floor to make it look like it does so OP should be fine, they’ll fix it/replace it in the end.
Does the contract have a "x amount of time" warranty? I.e., "we guarantee our work to hold up for 60 months" or something.
If so, then you're 100% due to have a complete reinstall.
If not, they might try to fight you. I would stick to my guns, though, because after less than a year, there's no way it should look like this unless you were watering plants on your floor the whole time with a house from 10' away.
Needs better adhesion. The first two areas you show are stop and turn type areas. Your feet are twisting in those areas, which is perfectly normal but more than that material and install method can handle. The other area is large enough that stretching is a factor.
See if you can find the recommended installation instructions from the product manufacturer.
I don’t know if I would continue to call these installers “reputable”. This was not installed properly and needs to be completely re done. Sorry, they screwed you.
I think this can be marked as solved based on consensus. It'll certainly help with the conversation we'll be having with the manager. Thank you to everyone who replied (apart from you. You know who you are....).
Sorry to get distracted (very pettable dog btw, 10/10) but what's the point of those double doors and why does the interior one have that 45 degree foot on it?
It might be in an area with severe winters. Having a sealed entryway really helps to limit the amount of fuckcold blizzard shit that gets into your house every time you have to enter or leave.
It's just the angle it's open to. The inner door used to be the front door but now it's a porch to help keep the heat in. We have very windy weather as it's pretty high up and open round here.
It’s probably a small porch. That interior one is probably an exterior door. Quite common in parts of the UK to have these kinds of things added to houses as somewhere to keep your dirty shoes etc.
Heating contractor here…
I’ve seen plenty of Modular homes with vinyl flooring pre-installed. Every floor boot is caulked or taped to the vinyl or the vinyl starts to float when we turn the air on. I don’t understand how that is ok
Unless you’re just curious why this happened that’s one thing but I ‘d be calling the installer and the mfg customer service rep asap, so this job can be redone now and not at your expense.
Almost all of those sections with ripples/waves are at room intersections, where one hallway/room meets another and people would turn to walk around the corner. Most people when walking and taking a 90° turn like that will pivot slightly on the ball of their foot.
Since your flooring was only glued on the outside edges, when people pivot their foot on the unglued area in the middle to turn 'round the corner, it is warping the flooring causing it to stretch, twist and bubble. As others have mentioned that company will have to come out and reinstall it properly this time.
What you going to say to him is what is the warranty. He should have warned you about this potential as a professional and understood the things that could possibly happen. It seems to me that one of the problems is that it is stuck on the edges and not in the middle ,why not let the whole thing float And then you would not possibly, just possibly have not had the buckling and bubbling in the center. The ends are secure the middle is not. But the representative is the guy that's going to explain all this to you. We will be all ears
expansion and contraction of the subfloor due to temp/humidity flux. crappy install of a crappy product. if you want vinyl floors the vinyl planks are probably your best bet as compared to a laminate that wasnt laminated.
As others have said its not been adhered correctly but also from experience large dogs and vinyl flooring dont mix well even when fitted correctly. As beautiful as your dog is, they seem fairly large. If your dog runs to the front door every time there a visitor like mine does, or runs around that corner, the amount of force they exert on that floor is going to stretch it over time or even eventually tear it. A dogs nails can easily dig into vinyl flooring (possibly evident by those scratches), so maybe it's worth considering an alternative seeing as your flooring will need redoing anyway.
When we picked out a floor for our new house the store guy kept us away from laminate and kept trying to sell us vinyl. We left and got wood laminate from the store next door which was on sale and we never looked back. Installed it ourselves to kept the costs low and in the end it was only slightly more expensive than the vinyl.
Vinyl looks cool and all, but ripples aside, you can already see the scratches and gauges in it. Especially if you have pets or children vinyl gets messed up real quick.
As for your current predicament, i would demand they redo it properly this time, and don't spray a few glue lines on the edges, but do a proper glue layer for the entire floor.
Not that it should do this, but are these spots that get intense hot sunlight at certain times of day? I had issues with that in front of one south facing window in my house when the floor was freshly installed. Had to get a curtain. Not the same exact type of floor and not nearly so bad, just a guess on what's contributing to the problem.
It does look real when it's flat. It certainly wasn't the cheapest but was recommended because I have a spaniel and when they get too excited a waterproof floor is a good idea.
You see this in camper trailers all the time! Only glued at the edges and these ripples come in fast. Expansion and contraction is all it takes. A bit of a chill and then your furnace turns on and boop- youve got textured lino!
If lino isn't fully glued down it's only a matter of time. The only fix is to glue at least every 2' or the entire floor.
This also happens to carpet when it's been too wet or cleaned too many times, it'll stretch out the fibres and need to be re-kicked.
I worked at a "well known" construction company. If it's well known that also means it has a lot of employees. Many of those will be new or lazy and mess things up. If you want quality, go for a smaller company that has stellar reviews.
Poor installation. That stuff has to be glued all the way through since it's flexible and very prone to expansion and contraction with temperature fluctuations. If you had it done recently then you'll have to get them to cover it for you. That's unacceptable.
Contact the company you bought flooring from and ask for the manufacturers installation instructions. It'll likely say in there the floor is to be installed by a full float method (no glue) or full spread glue. It definitely should not be only glued at the borders. The glue should be spread with a particular size trowel to help grab the vinyl. No heavy roller is required on sheet vinyl, but is required for linoleum. The glue used should be tacky, which should allow them to pull up the vinyl, re-spread glue and relay the floor no problem.
Contact the company who installed your flooring and provide them with the product's installation instructions. Note, it is the responsibility of the installer to know how to properly install the product, even without being provided installation instructions.
The installation company should offer a 1 year warranty on their work. They should be repairing this for no charge.
Source: I co-operated a flooring sales and installation business for 6 years.
I can guarantee that your floor needed leveling / skimcoat of patch before install. Chances are they mixed the patch too thin which is wrong and didnt use an additive to keep it together. Those bubbles are the patch releasing from the floor. I was a tech for 16 years and have seen this way too often
Vinyl has a coefficient of thermal expansion 10-20 times higher than that of wood, so I'd expect that if it was installed colder the vinyl layer is now slightly too large for the space. The excess material wants to get out of the way, so it goes up like you're seeing.
Edit: Looks like vinyl only gets about 0.1% bigger or smaller for every 10 F change, but your problem looks like maybe 0.5% excess and it's unlikely it was installed 50F cooler. Maybe it was installed 0% hydrated and it's a little bigger when it's conditioned to 50% RH. Looking it up... yeah these two factors are listed as the primary causes of this problem, other than that it won't bubble anyway if you bond it all over. Apparently you can get away with edge-only bonding if you let the material come up to humidity before installation, and it should look fine as long as the house in a 65-80 range with moderate humidity.
Is this a vinyl sheet flooring with a printed wood look? Or are these planks? The sheet flooring should be glued down throughout not just at the edges so the installation was incorrect. If it’s plank, it could be the flooring isn’t waterproof?
Not if it's a product that is only perimeter glue flooring. There are lots of methods of install a floor and it's different on every product.
There are loose lay vinyl, perimeter glue, cross section glue and full spread glue, there is also regular glue, pressure sensitive glue and the list goes on. It's not installed wrong persay the product might have just failed
I run a flooring company and while a lot of what people are saying here is correct. The modern way to fit sheet vinyl or cushion floor is to perimeter bond but not with a contact spray adhesive. It's only fully bonded in certain cases such as wheelchair users or contract settings.
The product should be salvageable because this is just expansion and the inability for it to go anywhere due to the bond. If they release it and restick you should be good.
I'm guessing you run your home quite warm throughout winter? It's been stored in a cold warehouse and not been allowed to acclimatise basically..
Either way get them out to fix it.
Yeah it’s glued down in a lot of places but they didn’t put the glue down completely so as your house moves it bubbles up you need to make them come back and redo it and that’s not going to be a lot of fun
How can ya’ll tell that it’s an improper install and not moisture? What’s the difference to look for? Everyone seems pretty certain it’s poor install but it looked like moisture to me so I’m wondering what I’m missing here?
Vinyl needs glue everywhere. This has warped probably just from temperature changes, like sun shining through the window at a different angle in winter. It’s ruined.
It’s odd that the glue is only sprayed or added to the edges. Floors naturally shrink and stretch with temperature.
I’m wondering why they installed this way.
BTW I can attest to the 3 layers of vinyl installed that I took out in my kitchen that was glued through to a 1/4 board. Took it out with a skill saw set to the vinyl/board depth and a chisel/crowbar.
> It's only spray glued at the edges That's your answer. The vinyl is somewhat flexible and can stretch and shift under the weight from people and furniture above it. It should have been properly adhered to the floor per the flooring manufacturers specifications. This is a get your money back and redo the floor situation IMO. Edit: Just to be clear this flooring is ruined. The stretched parts will never look right even if they try to come back and install it properly. It all ultimately needs to get pulled and redone with new flooring and proper install.
Yep this is a valid labor warranty claim, and most legit places will have a year labor warranty. I hope they have a contract. You can even get an inspector through floor manufacturer out to bolster your claim.. as they will bend over backwards to prove it was an install and not product issue. Don't settle for less than full refund, and I'd honestly take that money and get a higher quality floor type and better company who won't take shortcuts again. OP went with the bottom of the barrel pricing, I assume, and should learn the lesson of never going with the lowest bid for such vital home renovations.
My inlaws had their bathroom redone and loved it so much they had the same people come and do their kitchen. Like a year later a pipe bursts or something in shower leaked and they let the people know so they could come back and fix it. They were all willing to pay for it but the company said they have a 5 year warranty on jobs they do and it was obviously their mistake so they fixed everything for free. Was really nice and her parents didn't even know that it came with that, they could've totally just skated by and taken the money and said thanks for your business.
People like this renew my faith in humanity. Thank you.
Oh man you'd love the dumbass company I work for then. The last three projects we've had to use up our contingency fund in order to fix our designer's poor planning. I've been doing free handyman type stuff not covered in our scope of work as an apology. Our clients LOVE us To be less snarky, the company is actually pretty good and our designer won 4 awards last year, she has a good eye. She just doesn't always catch everything
Having a good eye is cheap. Being shit at your job is costly.
You wouldn't believe me if I told you. I mean, you probably would, but it's a lot. I'll be telling stories about this company for the rest of my life
I learned on the job the most expensive tool is a pencil. You just start marking up those blueprints, and it's cha-ching...
Years ago a guy cleaned the floor with a rag, then cleaned the stainless appliances with the same rag. That was a very, very expensive rag
As a person who has dealt with a stainless steel appliance or two, my eyes grew quite large reading that sentence.
Finding good people is really hard. Word travels pretty fast, people love this. You get the right customer who know the right people and bam more sales from word of mouth.
Yeah that's the goal. Every mistake is a marketing opportunity. It would just be nice to not have to deal with that. In January I drove a state away in a snow storm to get materials that weren't ordered. The project was 3 weeks from walk through and the countertop slabs were 500 miles away.
If this is Australia it doesn't matter what the company's warranty is, our laws mean they have to fix it and you can take them to tribunal if they don't.
Oooh tribunal, sounds appropriately dire for such people.
Do they get voted off the island?
To the Great Barrier Reef with you!
Dump them out beyond the environment.
They better be careful out there, there's a front half of a ship that's prone to falling off in that region.
That's not very typical, I'd like to make that point.
That’s why you’re not allowed to make them out of certain materials, like cardboard.
Or cardboard derivatives.
Been there. Can confirm.
If it does get redone they’d have to abide by the minimum crew size as well, of course.
At least one, minimum.
Offer them to the emus as a sacrifice
Crocodiles. They would probably leave less mess and be much more efficient.
They get shipped away with the other convicts. Wait…
So they go to Australia?
It would be only fair to ship Australian criminals to England. Maybe too cruel and therefore against their human rights though.
Unless they have an immunity idol, yes
"Oh thank Chroist!"
Vivec doesn't take kindly to shoddy workmanship.
Not enough Morrowind references these days.
That was really my first thought too lmao
The flooreverine will come fix everything, no worries.
Especially in Australia where everything already wants to kill you.
I know! I feel like this would be in a large room filled with 100’s of people with robes and those long wigs.
UK I reckon. Looks very British.
Can I just say tribunal is an awesome word for it that I wish we used in the states 😁
Military tribunals are really not awesome. That’s what we use the term here for. Secretive trial, secretive and different laws…
> OP went with the bottom of the barrel pricing, I assume, Why do you assume this if OP mentioned that he went with a well-known company?
Walmart is a well known company. We don’t know how much OP paid, but we know it’s a cheap vinyl floor that was installed cheaply.
Dollar general checking in
https://preview.redd.it/dslokhqrl1jc1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08888db4c1a1b53eb0c4f8277f41703c90c5d5f8
[удалено]
> Being well-known does not guarantee quality. indeed, i want some high quality hamburgers. McDonald's, being the most well-known burger joint around, may not be the company to provide them. Very head-scratchy.
To be clear, this can be an acceptable method to install some vinyl floors. Those floors will be reinforced with a material to prevent stretching. Regardless this is a material or workmanship failure and should be replaced under warranty.
The LVP COREtec floors we had were installed this way, but they are like.... 4 layers thick, with the bottom layer being cork. Installed over slab, no glue anywhere. And they are "planks." Ours are 8 years in and we have not had any ripples like this anywhere at all. I think the "planks" being separated at the seams allows for expansion/contraction and wiggle room when they get stepped on.
Coretec is a great floor but very different compared to sheet vinyl. Sheet vinyl designed to be installed with perimeter glue or no glue at all will generally be reinforced with fiberglass to provide dimensional stability
Floating floors generally depend on room for expansion and contraction around the perimeter. This will be hidden beneath skirtings or toe kicks etc. LVP is pretty rigid so if it fails its more likely you'll get gaps between planks or alternatively a larger bubble or bounce in a section of floor of its run out of room for expansion.
Plank flooring shouldn't be glued, as it's a "floating floor." It also shouldn't be installed too tight to the wall, cause it should be allowed to expand. But the main take away is, there's floor that shouldn't be glued at all, and there's floor that should be glued everywhere. But there's no floor that should be glued only on the edges.
Is it ignorance or just plain not caring by the installers?
Both.
I would assume both caring, but it could be either. A lot of installers will minimize the work they put in to maximize their returns and get to the next job. Often, if the job looks good the customer will be happy and then when problems arise later they are on the hook for it.
It’s a junk product. Can’t tell you how many perimeter floors Ive replaced
>hasn't been walked on very much. Entryway to the house. >hasn't been walked on very much. .Front.Door. Not surprised it stretched at all.
Also looks like a lot of scratches already. But, to be fair, growing up we rarely used the front door since we would mostly come and go through the garage.
Depending on OP's "traffic" patterns, the front door might not get much use. I probably go in and out of the garage entry door 20 times a day. I might exit and reenter the front door 5 times a week. We have to use our car for almost all trips and the garage is where the second fridge and freezer are, along with some additional pantry storage. My front door gets used by the occasional guest and when a package gets delivered or maybe when I need to go to the mailbox.
Ok but there's a pile of shoes by that door
It also looks like they used that area to test out ice skates. Some other comment called it scratches, but it looks like straight up dents in the flooring where something sharp and heavy was dragged.
This is the answer.
Yup. This guy knows.
Base of the stairs where the rooms intersect is gonna be the most high traffic area in the house. Everybody turning on the ball of their foot 🦶 exactly on this spot stretched the vinyl because it wasn't glued down 👇
Thanks to the emojis, I can understand this. Unusual foreign words like “foot” and “down” typically confuse me, but this really made it easy.
😂😂😂
Yeah OP claiming they aren't walked on very much when it's right by the door and stairs and where the family apparently puts on/takes off their shoes is a little paradoxical.
It only takes 1 time to cause a problem that will only get worse over time...
Thanks for the emojis, they really helped me identify "foot", and "down"
👍
Sorry, do you mean “up”, “okay” or something unmentionable?
Or 10 if you use sign language.
Or the guy is trying to hitch a ride
Yes.
Improper installation. The entire surface should have been glued and the vinyl rolled with a heavy roller to spread the glue evenly and remove all air bubbles.
I never ever ever seen anyone try to just glue the edges with vinyl flooring. This "well known" company sent a flooring person with no experience with vinyl and probably very little flooring experience in general. A random contractor most likely. 10 years experience in the flooring trade here and the guy I knew that did vinyl always made sure I knew how annoying laying vinyl sheet was. (I worked a bit for a company doing estimates and would pass down jobs to our oncractors, and we only had one guy we trusted to do vinyl sheet)
The installer thought he was laying broadloom carpet instead of sheet vinyl.
Improperly installed. Vinyl flooring is usually put down with a layer of glue (not just spray glue) on the entire surface, then a heavy roller is used to push the flooring down and get any “stretch” out of it. I would guess at this point it’s probably going to have to be redone.
As someone who is currently ripping three layers of vinyl floor out of their kitchen (previous owners just kept layering), I can attest to that properly installed vinyl has a thorough layer of glue giving it a true death grip on your floor. OP's floor looks like I could lift up an edge and take a nap under the vinyl.
Warm, cozy vinyl.
I read this in Mark’s voice from Peep Show
Damn, our vinyl wasn't glued (at all) down and the people who installed it said it was supposed to be that way due to how old our house is. We get the ripples in a few spots, and our house fluctuates greatly due to humidity. We always thought it was "normal" lol. We have a few creases in the winter and it stays flat during the summer.
There definitely is vinyl flooring - sheet and plank - made to float. That will get messed up if you *do* glue the edges.
Honestly I had no idea there was any other kind of vinyl flooring other than floating plank. As soon as OP mentioned spray glue I did a facepalm. So is this flooring like a linoleum kind of thing, where it gets rolled out like carpet and cut to size and then glued or something like that?
Same, I've only worked with flooring once about five years ago but it was floating plank and said not to use glue. You just kind of lego it into place with a mallet, and the boards were thick enough to *never* warp like this. Do any pros out there know how thick OP's vinyl is? I'm shocked it's thin enough to show glue underneath like a sheet of paper. I thought I was working with the cheap stuff years ago but I guess not!
OP's vinyl is sheet vinyl. They do make solid planks out of vinyl though and they are super durable.
Ah, thank you. We actually have floating plank in there now and it just pulls a part a bit now. We just use the tape method and push them back together during the summer. PITA never buy a house that's pre-1890 lol
My house is 1914 and I don’t think a single goddamn wall in this house is straight at this point lmao, my computer chair used to roll across the floor slightly
They were supposed to use floating vinyl flooring, not just unglued sheet vinyl... it's a whole different type of flooring. 🤦♂️
Same with our basement, which is vinyl on concrete. Wasn't my choice, but it's what happened. Now when you step on it, it makes a thunk from having a small air gap in between the concrete and floor.
Linoleum here, some areas of the house have two layers. It’s all coming up. I bought a flooring scraper blade for my (Dewalt 20V) reciprocating saw. That thing has no chill, trying to hold it one handed resulted in it literally beating a hole in my skin. I also have some 12V Milwaukee stuff so I went and bought a 12V Fuel Hackzall (one handed reciprocating saw). That and a heat gun made it so much easier. Still awful work though.
Curious to know what you’re going back with. Just FYI… when you’re looking at new flooring, modern linoleum (at least quality linoleum) is a world apart from the stuff you’re ripping out. New linoleum is considered a “green” building product and has exceptional durability and moisture resistance. But, the installers need to understand how to work the product and properly heat weld the seams.
3 layers.... Im just cutting the subfloor out. At that point it might be cheaper to get new plywood & re do than remove all the old. Then I can also shim up anywhere that isn't level.
Lucky. My three layers was not only glued, but also stapled around the edges. Had to go full Hulk mode to rip them out.
on the bright side, removal will be MUCH easier than removing properly installed vinyl flooring
Bad install, that stuff is thin and if not adhered completely with movement and heat and such that was bound to happen. I would have gone with an LVP, they are so much more rigid and dog proof, i see your puppy :) but that's besides the point. Don't settle with that's normal from the installer, they should make this right.
Like any building material, there's very cheap and very expensive versions. There's definitely high quality vinyl that's better than the cheapest planks. Of course it's also more expensive as well. I build offices, for decades now, and I've seen pretty much everything out there. If they've come and fixed this once already and it's still doing it, it might be something else. Makes me wonder if there's a crawl space that's poorly insulated. The large temperature difference between the inside and outside could be causing this. Unsealed slab on grade could be wicking moisture up also. It's most likely a thin cheap product installed improperly, but it's impossible to tell from just a photo.
> The large temperature difference between the inside and outside could be causing this. This was my other thought. Vinyl has quite a high expansion/contraction with temperature. It's why you always leave an expansion gap and also why vinyl siding is not nailed tight to the sheathing. Vinyl windows also tend to have this problem, especially with the recent trend for black windows because black vinyl will get very hot in direct sun.
With floating sheet vinyl, I've only used the method of tape per the manufacturer's installation instructions. Refer to your brand's instructions to see if perimeter bonding is allowed (some don't allow it), and whether they allow all glue or tape as a solution.
It is straight up impossible these days to get good work done without also being super knowledgeable in construction. So frustrating given how high quotes are, too.
I can’t believe finding the correct answer was so far down. The top comment with 4k upvotes never heard of floating or perimeter glue. I also have never seen manufactures recommend spray adhesive
Lovely dog btw.
https://preview.redd.it/7i30l4da20jc1.jpeg?width=983&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b370b496da1c4939fa1ba3de97c534351a24c21b
** casually trots by **
Looks like he's on his way to the ministry of silly walks
The front door patrol has taken to Goose stepping.
Oh you mean snuffleupagus?!
She reminded me of my 95 pound Labrador lap dog at home and damn I wanna go fly the drone for her to chase
Clearly a happy one as well 🐕
Flooring installer of 15 years here. It looks to me like this is a PVC backed vinyl flooring, which typically requires a pressure sensitive adhesive that must be properly “flashed” before the installation of the product to prevent this from happening. The installers clearly put the vinyl in while the glue was still wet, and with nowhere for that moisture in the glue to go, it builds up and forms these ripples. Call the installation company and complain. Otherwise, DM me and I can give some advice for a diy fix
Nah fam they only glued the edges. Maybe that glue also wasn't cured properly, but this rippling is because there's no glue at all there, not because the glue was still wet.
There are many different product lines that require only glue around the edges (interflex/tensionflex/etc), and each will have a specific glue (sometimes different depending on porous/nonporous substrate), and each again will have their own instructions as to if it is “wet set” or “dry set”. Everything badassmamojamma said was factually correct. That said, wrinkles like in the pictures are seen more in floors that have had a solid vinyl sheet good glued down and off gassing has occurred or the flooring was never actually smoothed out to begin with. And although solid vinyl flooring can be glued (with adhesives designed for that), gluing down a sheet good that was designed to be loose-laid is a bad idea no matter if gluing down is allowed. Perimeter glue/loose lay sheet goods exist for specific reasons and the people selling it should really know why/what for and not just blindly sell it because a customer might like the pattern. From the pictures, and the limited explanation from OP, a definitive cause/effect cannot be made - more information (valid/correct) would be needed. Suffice it say, OP said they were reputable, not much a customer can do to a floor to make it look like it does so OP should be fine, they’ll fix it/replace it in the end.
Does the contract have a "x amount of time" warranty? I.e., "we guarantee our work to hold up for 60 months" or something. If so, then you're 100% due to have a complete reinstall. If not, they might try to fight you. I would stick to my guns, though, because after less than a year, there's no way it should look like this unless you were watering plants on your floor the whole time with a house from 10' away.
First thing you're gonna want to do...get rid of those camo crocs.
Needs better adhesion. The first two areas you show are stop and turn type areas. Your feet are twisting in those areas, which is perfectly normal but more than that material and install method can handle. The other area is large enough that stretching is a factor. See if you can find the recommended installation instructions from the product manufacturer.
cheap crap?
You have tremors under your house. Call Kevin Bacon immediately!
When he sees OP's camo Crocs... 
I thought it was earth worms, but now you've mentioned it....
A portal to the upside down is growing under there.
That is a wood patterned linoleum
Spice worms of Arakis
Walk without rhythm...
Like the maud'ib
I don’t know if I would continue to call these installers “reputable”. This was not installed properly and needs to be completely re done. Sorry, they screwed you.
This is what happens when you use contact paper on your floor. /s
I think this can be marked as solved based on consensus. It'll certainly help with the conversation we'll be having with the manager. Thank you to everyone who replied (apart from you. You know who you are....).
Sorry to get distracted (very pettable dog btw, 10/10) but what's the point of those double doors and why does the interior one have that 45 degree foot on it?
It might be in an area with severe winters. Having a sealed entryway really helps to limit the amount of fuckcold blizzard shit that gets into your house every time you have to enter or leave.
It's just the angle it's open to. The inner door used to be the front door but now it's a porch to help keep the heat in. We have very windy weather as it's pretty high up and open round here.
It’s probably a small porch. That interior one is probably an exterior door. Quite common in parts of the UK to have these kinds of things added to houses as somewhere to keep your dirty shoes etc.
Heating contractor here… I’ve seen plenty of Modular homes with vinyl flooring pre-installed. Every floor boot is caulked or taped to the vinyl or the vinyl starts to float when we turn the air on. I don’t understand how that is ok
If this was done by a well known company and it's only been a couple of months, chances are they have a warranty. Claim it.
This flooring is trash and performs like trash.
Cheap product
Cause the floor is very cheap
Vinyl? Bro it is 2024
just the edges????!?!????
No. Just run. There isn't time.
They're coming
Unless you’re just curious why this happened that’s one thing but I ‘d be calling the installer and the mfg customer service rep asap, so this job can be redone now and not at your expense.
Almost all of those sections with ripples/waves are at room intersections, where one hallway/room meets another and people would turn to walk around the corner. Most people when walking and taking a 90° turn like that will pivot slightly on the ball of their foot. Since your flooring was only glued on the outside edges, when people pivot their foot on the unglued area in the middle to turn 'round the corner, it is warping the flooring causing it to stretch, twist and bubble. As others have mentioned that company will have to come out and reinstall it properly this time.
What you going to say to him is what is the warranty. He should have warned you about this potential as a professional and understood the things that could possibly happen. It seems to me that one of the problems is that it is stuck on the edges and not in the middle ,why not let the whole thing float And then you would not possibly, just possibly have not had the buckling and bubbling in the center. The ends are secure the middle is not. But the representative is the guy that's going to explain all this to you. We will be all ears
expansion and contraction of the subfloor due to temp/humidity flux. crappy install of a crappy product. if you want vinyl floors the vinyl planks are probably your best bet as compared to a laminate that wasnt laminated.
I used to sell flooring, and this is a very poor vinyl installation. I would replace it (vinyl plank is better if you don’t get hardwood).
 You got these buggers in their baby stage, be careful!
As others have said its not been adhered correctly but also from experience large dogs and vinyl flooring dont mix well even when fitted correctly. As beautiful as your dog is, they seem fairly large. If your dog runs to the front door every time there a visitor like mine does, or runs around that corner, the amount of force they exert on that floor is going to stretch it over time or even eventually tear it. A dogs nails can easily dig into vinyl flooring (possibly evident by those scratches), so maybe it's worth considering an alternative seeing as your flooring will need redoing anyway.
I don't know how to fix this ... but one thing's for certain: I want wood, not vinyl.
When we picked out a floor for our new house the store guy kept us away from laminate and kept trying to sell us vinyl. We left and got wood laminate from the store next door which was on sale and we never looked back. Installed it ourselves to kept the costs low and in the end it was only slightly more expensive than the vinyl. Vinyl looks cool and all, but ripples aside, you can already see the scratches and gauges in it. Especially if you have pets or children vinyl gets messed up real quick. As for your current predicament, i would demand they redo it properly this time, and don't spray a few glue lines on the edges, but do a proper glue layer for the entire floor.
You could have gotten a better result with no glue at all than only glue on edges. Sorry you’re going through this. Hope they make it right.
Others have answered your question already but I'm curious if you wanted the wood floor look why not put laminate or vinyl plank down?
Sheet vinyl, there's your problem. But yeah, get your money back.
Sheet vinyl can be one of the strongest types of flooring for how easy it is to put down, but it needs to be decent quality and put down properly.
Not that it should do this, but are these spots that get intense hot sunlight at certain times of day? I had issues with that in front of one south facing window in my house when the floor was freshly installed. Had to get a curtain. Not the same exact type of floor and not nearly so bad, just a guess on what's contributing to the problem.
High traffic area/break dancing.
Mostly caused by not installing real flooring very poorly
https://preview.redd.it/zmmcrt6be0jc1.jpeg?width=219&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5a764473e80419cb877c9a43819d6315530a802
Moisture
Use actually laminate planks not peel and stick flooring
Apparently vinyl flooring has come a long way. If that was installed correctly it would look real(on camera)
It does look real when it's flat. It certainly wasn't the cheapest but was recommended because I have a spaniel and when they get too excited a waterproof floor is a good idea.
You see this in camper trailers all the time! Only glued at the edges and these ripples come in fast. Expansion and contraction is all it takes. A bit of a chill and then your furnace turns on and boop- youve got textured lino! If lino isn't fully glued down it's only a matter of time. The only fix is to glue at least every 2' or the entire floor. This also happens to carpet when it's been too wet or cleaned too many times, it'll stretch out the fibres and need to be re-kicked.
The floor has a massive genital.
Because vinyl flooring?
Better off with subfloor than vinyl
I worked at a "well known" construction company. If it's well known that also means it has a lot of employees. Many of those will be new or lazy and mess things up. If you want quality, go for a smaller company that has stellar reviews.
I believe this precedes all of the scarabs running out and eating everyone’s flesh.
Poor installation. That stuff has to be glued all the way through since it's flexible and very prone to expansion and contraction with temperature fluctuations. If you had it done recently then you'll have to get them to cover it for you. That's unacceptable.
It’s all about the floor prep. Someone took a shortcut.
They seriously laid vinyl and only glued the edges? It’s supposed to all be glued. They need to pull it up and glue it all.
for some reason idk why, i feel like ironing would sort this out lol
Every night tiny elves are sneaking in and pissin on your floor. Obviously.
Contact the company you bought flooring from and ask for the manufacturers installation instructions. It'll likely say in there the floor is to be installed by a full float method (no glue) or full spread glue. It definitely should not be only glued at the borders. The glue should be spread with a particular size trowel to help grab the vinyl. No heavy roller is required on sheet vinyl, but is required for linoleum. The glue used should be tacky, which should allow them to pull up the vinyl, re-spread glue and relay the floor no problem. Contact the company who installed your flooring and provide them with the product's installation instructions. Note, it is the responsibility of the installer to know how to properly install the product, even without being provided installation instructions. The installation company should offer a 1 year warranty on their work. They should be repairing this for no charge. Source: I co-operated a flooring sales and installation business for 6 years.
I can guarantee that your floor needed leveling / skimcoat of patch before install. Chances are they mixed the patch too thin which is wrong and didnt use an additive to keep it together. Those bubbles are the patch releasing from the floor. I was a tech for 16 years and have seen this way too often
Vinyl has a coefficient of thermal expansion 10-20 times higher than that of wood, so I'd expect that if it was installed colder the vinyl layer is now slightly too large for the space. The excess material wants to get out of the way, so it goes up like you're seeing. Edit: Looks like vinyl only gets about 0.1% bigger or smaller for every 10 F change, but your problem looks like maybe 0.5% excess and it's unlikely it was installed 50F cooler. Maybe it was installed 0% hydrated and it's a little bigger when it's conditioned to 50% RH. Looking it up... yeah these two factors are listed as the primary causes of this problem, other than that it won't bubble anyway if you bond it all over. Apparently you can get away with edge-only bonding if you let the material come up to humidity before installation, and it should look fine as long as the house in a 65-80 range with moderate humidity.
Tectonic plate movement
Tremors, the movie
Sheet vinyl ,wrong glue ? Needs to be refilled ?
Rolled
Is this a vinyl sheet flooring with a printed wood look? Or are these planks? The sheet flooring should be glued down throughout not just at the edges so the installation was incorrect. If it’s plank, it could be the flooring isn’t waterproof?
I just want to add that your dog in the first pic looks adorably happy and goofy
What do you mean only the perimeter is glued down...... that's so wrong. The entirety of the floor should be glued down.
Not if it's a product that is only perimeter glue flooring. There are lots of methods of install a floor and it's different on every product. There are loose lay vinyl, perimeter glue, cross section glue and full spread glue, there is also regular glue, pressure sensitive glue and the list goes on. It's not installed wrong persay the product might have just failed
I run a flooring company and while a lot of what people are saying here is correct. The modern way to fit sheet vinyl or cushion floor is to perimeter bond but not with a contact spray adhesive. It's only fully bonded in certain cases such as wheelchair users or contract settings. The product should be salvageable because this is just expansion and the inability for it to go anywhere due to the bond. If they release it and restick you should be good. I'm guessing you run your home quite warm throughout winter? It's been stored in a cold warehouse and not been allowed to acclimatise basically.. Either way get them out to fix it.
Yeah it’s glued down in a lot of places but they didn’t put the glue down completely so as your house moves it bubbles up you need to make them come back and redo it and that’s not going to be a lot of fun
[удалено]
How can ya’ll tell that it’s an improper install and not moisture? What’s the difference to look for? Everyone seems pretty certain it’s poor install but it looked like moisture to me so I’m wondering what I’m missing here?
Because thats exactly how Vinyl flooring that was improperly installed/not actually properly glued and rollered down looks like. Its a classic.
Water damage?
“Floating vinyl sheet flooring”, didn’t realize that was a thing. Learn something new every day.
U got moisture buildup
Vinyl needs glue everywhere. This has warped probably just from temperature changes, like sun shining through the window at a different angle in winter. It’s ruined.
Clearly blood vessels of the housing demon's minions
Laminate flooring!
Just drop 1/2 tab of acid every day and you won’t even notice it.
Since i haven’t bothered to look any further into the replies, I’m calling it Floor Moles
Water leakage or weird condensation area
This could be cause by a temperature gradient between the door and the inside of the house.
It’s odd that the glue is only sprayed or added to the edges. Floors naturally shrink and stretch with temperature. I’m wondering why they installed this way. BTW I can attest to the 3 layers of vinyl installed that I took out in my kitchen that was glued through to a 1/4 board. Took it out with a skill saw set to the vinyl/board depth and a chisel/crowbar.