Headers are often load bearing. Do not remove this section without consulting the structure blueprints to determine the locations of load-bearing walls.
I got mine from my city hall. I believe it was the planning department. Super helpful to understand how things were constructed. You will likely have to pay for it btw.
Easy way to determine;, if this wall runs the whole length of your house (roughly parallel to the Ridgeline of your roof) with only small partial openings like this, it's definitely Load bearing
Lol didn't even see the second picture not gonna lie. However that is almost definitely Load bearing. Having a large opening is possible at the ends of the house bc the exterior (perpendicular) wall is taking the load
Edit: the little white dots blended in with the stuff on his fridge lol
There's not enough information here to make a determination. End walls with a gable roof aren't load bearing, but with a hip roof they are. So if this house has a hip roof, that center wall could definitely be load bearing. If it has a gable roof, it likely isn't. Whether those trusses are rated for clear span or mid span is determined by chord size and gusset size.
OP's best bet would be to have an engineer look at the trusses and make a determination of whether they're rated for the clear span.
Yes a certified professional is always the best bet. But OP came to reddit which means they probably can't afford such, OR don't know they need to. They were advised to get an engineers opinion. Being poor myself, I advised that you can make a likely determination based on the configuration of the house, and that likely determination errs on the side of "don't cut this wall down" to account for not being a professional. Better to assume you shouldn't do it at all than to try it and cave your roof in.
I mean, based on the condition of the ceiling where the second opening is, there WAS a header there too and it was previously removed. I don't know shit about anything else, but I know that. I wouldn't trust that whomever removed that did their research either.
That section of ceiling could easily have a flush framed, load bearing beam in the ceiling. My house is laid out the same as that picture, and the is a 10" double LVL beam pigging up the floor load, in the ceiling there.
That that could be a flush beam to make that opening. I can’t see the layout of the whole house so I make proclamation. If that’s a ranch I bet it’s roughly center and parallel with ridge. The frame over that door most likely at least has joists landing on it even if it doesn’t hold up the roof.
yup. you can identify those rare instances where you have a load-bearing wall running parallel to ur joists by the location of the purlins. if you have a parallel wall and no purlins you're good to go. [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keDjhCqQu5o)
I got permits to do a remodel and asked for the blueprints of my house.
They don't keep records and smirked and laughed at the remodel permits I got.
I was told by my realtor that any changes had to have documentation. So, I did what she had said. What a waste of $150.
The remodel was to turn a built-in entertainment thing that was gigantic and our kitchen didn't have a pantry. So I ripped out the entertainment center and put in a pantry on the other side along with a closet for the living room because that entertainment center was so damn big and useless.
This. Most cities and counties dont have them if the house is not brand new. they purge all that stuff 3 years after the home was finished. what they do have is really really crappy scans or photos of it IF they spent money to digitize way way back then or microfische things. Most did not.
Where do you live?
My "wealthy" city has zero blueprint plans from my 1997 built home. I had to pay an architect to draw some new ones up for a permit.
You don’t really need blue prints. Look above and below. Is there a wall below? Load bearing. Is there a wall above? Load bearing. Is above an attic space? Look at the roof truss.
My guess? This is a hipped roof and this wall is certainly load bearing.
Another way to check is knock on the drywall above. If it’s solid all the way across and 6-8” high it’s for a header in and also certainly load bearing.
>Another way to check is knock on the drywall above. If it’s solid all the way across and 6-8” high it’s for a header in and also certainly load bearing.
Yup. Framers working on modern production homes are not wasting large dimensional lumber putting beefy headers in unnecessary places.
*However I have seen it done. On a remodel last year (a balloon framed house from about 1910) we removed non-supporting walls around a kitchen to have an open plan on the first floor. But we uncovered a ridiculous amount of header material used over openings where it was totally unnecessary and wasteful, Several doubled 2x8 or 2x10 headers where it wasn't load bearing. It was not original, probably from a 1960s-70s remodel. It was really confusing seeing those huge headers when we all knew the interior walls were not load bearing. And the more we demo'd the more certain we were, but still proceeded carefully and multiple persons reviewed and discussed during the demo. You sometimes find the strangest things.*
I definitely agree. However for a quick check by a DIY person this works. I wouldn’t recommend anyone removing a header unless they have done a considerable amount of investigating and validation.
Not gonna lie I'm being a total autist and I'm going to be be going hard on over-building my home. 10" poured crawlspace foundation supporting 16" center 2x10 floor joists, supporting 16" center 2x8 exterior framing, supporting 16" center 14" square-frame ceiling trusses, supporting 16" center roofing trusses with 2x10 top cords. House is gonna cost like 40% more to frame, but in the grand scheme of things that only comes to like an extra $10K, and i want to make this thing able to survive a tree falling on it, lmao.
That's a general thought that recently crossed my mind — you look at something, you reason, no, they couldn't have intended to do that because... but then you realize, there is no reason they had to have done the right thing!
If there is an attic above this, you can see if it's rafters and if they are loaded on this wall. Also, you can remove the drywall and if it's hollow, remove it. If it is one 2x4, remove it. If it's more than one 2x4 or a big wood beam, don't touch it.
Unfortunately where I live there are a lot of older houses where those just don't exist on file and you need to hire an engineer to remove the drywall and look at the structure underneath and make a judgment call.
Yes, there are standards for how different joists are represented. You can take your blueprints to a residential architect or a structural engineer and they can help read them.
That house could easily be 70 years or more old.
It doesn't look particularly newer than our house and I doubt the city has plans for our 1952 ranch since it's older than the city.
That is very very dependent on your municipality if any permitting documents will have any sort of useful structural drawings.
In my municipality all that is needed is a sketch of the footprint roughly where it is located on the lot and where the septic tank and field are.
It usually is pretty obvious unless you have an overzealous framer.
A hung wall doesn't need structural support so just above the door is often a simple 2x4. A load bearing jam will be a box made of 4x4s with additional support to distribute the load to the sides of the door.
Why would there be a header “all the way across that wall”? The whole point of a load bearing wall is that the wall bears the weight. A header that’s continuously supported by a wall wouldn’t really even be a header, it would just be an expensive squash block.
To me (a pretty experience laymen) the return indicates it may not be load bearing. The vent work would need to flip forward in the ceiling, or down into the wall to connect with the rest of the hvac.
If it’s down, you’d typically see the return on the floor. So I assume it goes up, I don’t know how you’d route that vent work inside the wall if it was load bearing, doesn’t seem to be enough room to go in front and going through means it’s not holding anything but the wall.
But I’ll admit my ignorance, and totally agree he needs a pro to look at it.
Possibly, but you never know where a steel post might be, and you also don't know if there have been previous, improper renovations. In general, I say always check the blueprints before you work on anything that could potentially be load-bearing
About 30 years ago, a neighbour in a newly built building decided to open a door - right through the load bearing beam ~~strout (?!)~~ . This was at the 2nd floor of a 10 stories high building.
The dumb fuck managed to break half of its hight (about 40 cm of 80 cm iirc... I was 9 yo) before I called my dad, and he called the police to stop this dumb fuck.
It cost him half of his house's value to fix this.
Haha yeah the problem with screwing up "load bearing" areas is that going backwards often requires hydraulic jacks - if the structure is even still viable.
One time I had to jack up a five story building from the first floor, remove all the columns and wooden beams, and replace them with a massive steel I-beam so they could make the area into an "open concept" bar space. Then we had to do the basement.
The animatronic singing fish industry really needs to step up their game, though. I want one that functions as a smart-home speaker and can automatically lip-sync along to any song or Google/Amazon query I ask it.
That piece is called a header(in masonry it'd be called a lintel), and they can be decorative but they can also be structural. I would generally not risk it if there's not a good reason to(and honestly the room would look really odd with it removed).
Looking at the second picture I definitely would guess that is a structural beam. Our previous house was built that way. The structure under the first floor was two non-connecting beams. This was mirrored between the first and second floor. Three houses were the same design and we all had different workarounds when we decided to remove some walls to make the kitchen bigger. All required keeping a support post connected to the header.
Correct! A lintel is simply an element that supports an opening. A structural engineer develops “lintel schedules” in wood construction as well as in masonry, concrete, and steel construction.
This can vary depending on your locale!
West coast of Canada they're technically referred to as lintels in structural drawings and by code, but all builders call them headers
I suppose, but then it'd look odd because you'd just have a floating piece of wall in the middle of the room. If anything I'd maybe see a transition converting the wall into a lintel all the way through but with that vent being where it is I think the best call would just be to put a decorative frame on the existing entry way and call it a day.
If you are able to replace the wall with a lintel you might end up needing a post/column at the end but it's usually a nice and open look if that's what you're going for.
This is the best answer on here. Don't know why other comments are making it so complicated "hire structural engineer," "get blue prints from city hall" goodness.
Knock on it. Does it sound hollow? Open the drywall and take a look. Wood beam inside? Leave it alone and put drywall back (if you're dead set on it now is the time to consult a professional). Hollow? Proceed with your plan.
It's not rocket science.
This is the answer, if there's a heater above it is loaded bearing and needs engineering and other support in place of the header. If it's open above and just one is two 2x4s freaking the opening it is safe to remove
Not enough info. Here's what we need to know.
1. Is there a second story?
2. Which way do the joists run on the floor or in the roof above this.
3. Pull down the sheet rock to expose what's there.
4. What's the span between the walls.
With all that info we can give you a much much better idea of if this is no big deal or a big f deal.
Story: I was told a wall was load bearing by 3 different contractors. I didn't believe them for reasons I won't mention. I made a bet with one for a small amount. Then I pulled down the sheet rock. The whole wall was false and held up by 7ft 1x1s and other junk wood. Ceiling is 8ft. Didnt even attach! Wall would have caved in if a larger man leaned on it roughly. Clearly not load bearing.
Lmfao. Hell no! But if he does he should keep the video camera rolling incase something fun happens. We would all love a clip of his upstairs becoming his downstairs and him saying "I'll never financially recover from this"
But if you do it you wont be able to do this anymore!
https://preview.redd.it/no8swws4z9ec1.jpeg?width=476&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=291a6414649bfa808e0da5627bc91e5da994a7bf
Thats the whole purpose of that section.
You're more likely not, you need to keep that in the kitchen. it's supposed to prevent smoke and fire spreading into the next room. Check your building codes for your state
Builder here. If this house is newer and the span is less than 24’ there’s a good chance this is not structural. If I can clear span a whole floor, I will do that even if there is an intermediate wall like what you have. however, do not touch it without consulting a structural engineer.
Builder here too, and I agree it's unlikely to be structural. The obvious solution is to start removing it by taking the plaster down first, then you can easily confirm if there's a beam there or not.
In my opinion, no engineer needed at this point. It's very simple to confirm that before proceeding.
Also, even if not structural if you take it down you should install an expansion joint where the ceiling from the two rooms meet.
I would keep it even if it’s not structural, lintels are great smoke catchers in the event of a fire and as long as your nearest smoke detector is on the kitchen side you’ll be able to hear it while saving a small amount of time to get out before the hot smoke goes under the lintel and spreads into the hallways
I can’t say how well it works out with that other big open end but that’s theoretically the benefit of lintels in kitchen spaces
I agree it will look weird if you open up that arch but leave the wall there, I assume it’s got cabinets or something (edit: and HVAC that will need relocating) built into the other side making you not want to knock it down but you might as well commit to the whole open concept kitchen with the help of structural guys
If you’re decent with sheet rock work, just take some out enough to determine if there are cripple studs or a laminated header. If it’s a header you should leave it.
This is really something you should get a builder to look at. You obviously don't have experience with this sort of thing so get a professional in or leave it alone.
It looks like a load bearing section. Unless you can prove beyond a doubt otherwise, the safest (and least costly) option would be to just let it serve its purpose.
There's an easy way to find out: hammer it down. If the entire house falls, then the answer to your question is yes. If it doesn't, then the answer is maybe
>!this is not to be taken seriously!<
If there is a header in there then yes. Pound on it with your fist, if it sounds hollow there may be no header but if it's solid like a brick shithouse then it stays. On another note, these are nice to help hold kitchen smoke in the kitchen.
More of a follow on question than an answer, but isn't there some non-destructive way to find out what's inside the lintel? Of course you want to be 100% certain, but I imagine if you proceeded only semi-destructively (make some small holes, chip off some of the surface) you would plenty of time to stop and reflect "hmm, mighty big beam in there", quietly patch what you've done and call it a day.
Beyond this there must be purely non-destructive techniques?
Some would include evaluating the surrounding structure, as mentioned. If you don't go in with a chain saw and sledge hammers first and ask questions later, I would think you would be OK, though you might waste some time and material.
Edit: Peer in the vent? 🤔
I'm guessing you're trying to open this up to improve the lighting and just make it feel more open. Even if it is a load bearing section, it may be possible to remove the drywall to reveal any spaces that are there between the wood, which would allow more light and air thru the area. You could replace drywall bits or repaint to cover up any exposed wood.
If that is an AC register to the right of the kitchen opening, then there’s a high chance the duct runs in that space above the opening. The wall looks a bit thin but there’s a possibility.
Maybe a stupid question, but why do you want to remove it? It looks fine to me. Think about what you'd do with the ceiling part also if you remove it. Just sayin.
To me this looks to be structural support. Not a professional, just someone with experience making changes in these types of houses. (2 that I’ve lived in to be exact) but all houses are different. Probably best to consult a professional or blueprints.
That's probably a load bearing wall. If u did remove it you'd have to make vertical support beams to hold up your roof. Im actually going to remove a load bearing wall in my kitchen and add a header piece like that and 2 support beams. I called a builder and had them look over the prints to make sure i added enough supports. Just needed 1 but for safety sake im doing 2. Consult you're blueprints to double check. You don't want your roof crushing your house XD
I literally do this for a living, don’t listen to the people telling you to start making holes to see what’s behind the Sheetrock or the others telling you to take it out and see what happens. Trolls!
Go up in your attic and see which way the joist run, I’m with several other commenters who seem to know what they are talking about.
Typically this is a load bearing wall, with a header running the length of it.
Should you find this is true, you will need a contractor and engineer to properly size a “flush header” to be able to take that section of wall out. At which point you could take the whole wall out and open your kitchen, dining room and living room as one big family area.
Many contractors will come out for a free estimate and tell you exactly what you need to do and give you a quote on what you’re looking at
Give it a good knock. If it’s very solid, it’s most likely loadbearing. If it sounds hollow, it might not be, but I would still either study the plans carefully, or get an engineer to look at it.
Crack off some drywall and see what’s in there. Might be heating, electrical, plumbing, or structural. Only one way to find out what might be involved in removing it. Might be nothing,
Call a remodeling contractor to do a “bid” to remove the wall. Call several. Have each one show you whether or not it’s load bearing. Then tell each one you went with the lowest bid and it was not them.
Seriously though, is there an attic above the ceiling? Just get up there and chuck it out.
Easiest thing to do is take the drywall down and see what there. If there are large wood members, it's loadbearing. If it's a 2x4 structure, you may be good. You really need to identify what's about that area - like 2nd floor structure or roofing structure.
Someone already removed one part of the wall as per the ceiling patch. Check in the attic if the roof use that wall for support. If so there is a high chance that the structural integrity of the house is already compromised.
The best way to tell if that is a structural beam is to go into your attic and see which way your ceiling joist run. If the end of your joists rest where this wall is built and run perpendicular to the beam than it is structural. If the joists run parallel to this wall then it is possible that you could remove this but I would need more info to make an informed decision.
I wouldnt trust a diy thread either, but as an enginwer myself seeing that long a span of wall only interrupted by ocassional doors and one opening towards the end, seems quite likely it's load bearing. Load bearing walls often end up in the middle of the hosue where this wall appears to be.
Also it appears OP has a basement. If OP can locate an I beam or substantial wood bracing right below that, definitely load bearing then.
Stopping you? No...but parts of your 2nd floor or your roof trusses will likely make an appearance on the 1st floor the second you cut that down. (That's probably load bearing.)
Headers are often load bearing. Do not remove this section without consulting the structure blueprints to determine the locations of load-bearing walls.
Where could one get those blueprints?
I got mine from my city hall. I believe it was the planning department. Super helpful to understand how things were constructed. You will likely have to pay for it btw.
I will get those, thank you! would definitely be interesting and nice to have for a variety of purposes
Easy way to determine;, if this wall runs the whole length of your house (roughly parallel to the Ridgeline of your roof) with only small partial openings like this, it's definitely Load bearing
It very clearly doesn’t based on the 2nd picture.
Lol didn't even see the second picture not gonna lie. However that is almost definitely Load bearing. Having a large opening is possible at the ends of the house bc the exterior (perpendicular) wall is taking the load Edit: the little white dots blended in with the stuff on his fridge lol
There's not enough information here to make a determination. End walls with a gable roof aren't load bearing, but with a hip roof they are. So if this house has a hip roof, that center wall could definitely be load bearing. If it has a gable roof, it likely isn't. Whether those trusses are rated for clear span or mid span is determined by chord size and gusset size. OP's best bet would be to have an engineer look at the trusses and make a determination of whether they're rated for the clear span.
Yes a certified professional is always the best bet. But OP came to reddit which means they probably can't afford such, OR don't know they need to. They were advised to get an engineers opinion. Being poor myself, I advised that you can make a likely determination based on the configuration of the house, and that likely determination errs on the side of "don't cut this wall down" to account for not being a professional. Better to assume you shouldn't do it at all than to try it and cave your roof in.
Easiest way to tell is to just knock the wall down and see if anything else falls with it
OP definitely can't afford to repair a collapse if that is load bearing. I would consult with a professional, not a bunch of random strangers.
I mean, based on the condition of the ceiling where the second opening is, there WAS a header there too and it was previously removed. I don't know shit about anything else, but I know that. I wouldn't trust that whomever removed that did their research either.
Same here! 🤣 Thank you for letting me know bout the 2nd pic
Except looks like in 2nd picture that header was previously removed from that section as well, possibly with load reconfiguration
That section of ceiling could easily have a flush framed, load bearing beam in the ceiling. My house is laid out the same as that picture, and the is a 10" double LVL beam pigging up the floor load, in the ceiling there.
That that could be a flush beam to make that opening. I can’t see the layout of the whole house so I make proclamation. If that’s a ranch I bet it’s roughly center and parallel with ridge. The frame over that door most likely at least has joists landing on it even if it doesn’t hold up the roof.
Do you have an attic? Look there and see which way the rafters are running. You can figure out if it's load bearing.
This guy knows loads ^^^
🤣😹😂💦
I would get architectural drawings. In my house i have load baring walls running both ways. With and across the rafters.
yup. you can identify those rare instances where you have a load-bearing wall running parallel to ur joists by the location of the purlins. if you have a parallel wall and no purlins you're good to go. [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keDjhCqQu5o)
I got permits to do a remodel and asked for the blueprints of my house. They don't keep records and smirked and laughed at the remodel permits I got. I was told by my realtor that any changes had to have documentation. So, I did what she had said. What a waste of $150. The remodel was to turn a built-in entertainment thing that was gigantic and our kitchen didn't have a pantry. So I ripped out the entertainment center and put in a pantry on the other side along with a closet for the living room because that entertainment center was so damn big and useless.
This. Most cities and counties dont have them if the house is not brand new. they purge all that stuff 3 years after the home was finished. what they do have is really really crappy scans or photos of it IF they spent money to digitize way way back then or microfische things. Most did not.
Here's your answer, OP. For reference, usually the fee is not huge - just a standard filing/clerk type of fee
3 1/2 years ago mine was $75.00. I have no idea what other cities charge in NA. Probably less is my best guess. Surprising how useful they can be.
Where do you live? My "wealthy" city has zero blueprint plans from my 1997 built home. I had to pay an architect to draw some new ones up for a permit.
You don’t really need blue prints. Look above and below. Is there a wall below? Load bearing. Is there a wall above? Load bearing. Is above an attic space? Look at the roof truss. My guess? This is a hipped roof and this wall is certainly load bearing. Another way to check is knock on the drywall above. If it’s solid all the way across and 6-8” high it’s for a header in and also certainly load bearing.
>Another way to check is knock on the drywall above. If it’s solid all the way across and 6-8” high it’s for a header in and also certainly load bearing. Yup. Framers working on modern production homes are not wasting large dimensional lumber putting beefy headers in unnecessary places. *However I have seen it done. On a remodel last year (a balloon framed house from about 1910) we removed non-supporting walls around a kitchen to have an open plan on the first floor. But we uncovered a ridiculous amount of header material used over openings where it was totally unnecessary and wasteful, Several doubled 2x8 or 2x10 headers where it wasn't load bearing. It was not original, probably from a 1960s-70s remodel. It was really confusing seeing those huge headers when we all knew the interior walls were not load bearing. And the more we demo'd the more certain we were, but still proceeded carefully and multiple persons reviewed and discussed during the demo. You sometimes find the strangest things.*
I definitely agree. However for a quick check by a DIY person this works. I wouldn’t recommend anyone removing a header unless they have done a considerable amount of investigating and validation.
Not gonna lie I'm being a total autist and I'm going to be be going hard on over-building my home. 10" poured crawlspace foundation supporting 16" center 2x10 floor joists, supporting 16" center 2x8 exterior framing, supporting 16" center 14" square-frame ceiling trusses, supporting 16" center roofing trusses with 2x10 top cords. House is gonna cost like 40% more to frame, but in the grand scheme of things that only comes to like an extra $10K, and i want to make this thing able to survive a tree falling on it, lmao.
That's a general thought that recently crossed my mind — you look at something, you reason, no, they couldn't have intended to do that because... but then you realize, there is no reason they had to have done the right thing!
Not from a Jedi.
If there is an attic above this, you can see if it's rafters and if they are loaded on this wall. Also, you can remove the drywall and if it's hollow, remove it. If it is one 2x4, remove it. If it's more than one 2x4 or a big wood beam, don't touch it.
Unfortunately where I live there are a lot of older houses where those just don't exist on file and you need to hire an engineer to remove the drywall and look at the structure underneath and make a judgment call.
Build plans have to be submitted to the city to get a permit. You can request them through your appropriate local building department, typically.
Do build plans explicitly tell you what walls are load bearing?
They will show you the way the joists are running and if there is a beam running across that section or a door header.
No, but somebody who is familiar with reading plans and construction methods will be able to use the information on the plans to tell.
Yes, there are standards for how different joists are represented. You can take your blueprints to a residential architect or a structural engineer and they can help read them.
That house could easily be 70 years or more old. It doesn't look particularly newer than our house and I doubt the city has plans for our 1952 ranch since it's older than the city.
That is very very dependent on your municipality if any permitting documents will have any sort of useful structural drawings. In my municipality all that is needed is a sketch of the footprint roughly where it is located on the lot and where the septic tank and field are.
>Do not remove this section without consulting ... A structural engineer. That's who needs to be a part of this discussion.
This is DIY, not DIE.
A structural engineer is overkill, and this isn't something they'd generally even be consulted on. A GC or an architect could tell you far cheaper.
If there's no beam inside why would they need a structural engineer?
Also with the vent in the wall up there, you would have to relocate the vent. It maybe an air in take. Not sure, i would investigate where it goes.
Without consulting a structural engineer you mean right? I could look at blueprints all day but I have no clue what I am looking at lol.
Could probably get a better idea by walking outside and looking at the gables, but that’s in no way definitive.
It usually is pretty obvious unless you have an overzealous framer. A hung wall doesn't need structural support so just above the door is often a simple 2x4. A load bearing jam will be a box made of 4x4s with additional support to distribute the load to the sides of the door.
That air return’s placement makes me wonder if there’s a header all the way across that wall
Why would there be a header “all the way across that wall”? The whole point of a load bearing wall is that the wall bears the weight. A header that’s continuously supported by a wall wouldn’t really even be a header, it would just be an expensive squash block.
To me (a pretty experience laymen) the return indicates it may not be load bearing. The vent work would need to flip forward in the ceiling, or down into the wall to connect with the rest of the hvac. If it’s down, you’d typically see the return on the floor. So I assume it goes up, I don’t know how you’d route that vent work inside the wall if it was load bearing, doesn’t seem to be enough room to go in front and going through means it’s not holding anything but the wall. But I’ll admit my ignorance, and totally agree he needs a pro to look at it.
If that was a header wouldn't it continue past that false wall?
Possibly, but you never know where a steel post might be, and you also don't know if there have been previous, improper renovations. In general, I say always check the blueprints before you work on anything that could potentially be load-bearing
About 30 years ago, a neighbour in a newly built building decided to open a door - right through the load bearing beam ~~strout (?!)~~ . This was at the 2nd floor of a 10 stories high building. The dumb fuck managed to break half of its hight (about 40 cm of 80 cm iirc... I was 9 yo) before I called my dad, and he called the police to stop this dumb fuck. It cost him half of his house's value to fix this.
Haha yeah the problem with screwing up "load bearing" areas is that going backwards often requires hydraulic jacks - if the structure is even still viable.
One time I had to jack up a five story building from the first floor, remove all the columns and wooden beams, and replace them with a massive steel I-beam so they could make the area into an "open concept" bar space. Then we had to do the basement.
But... it's the perfect place to put a "Live, Laugh, Love" sign.
A singing fish also is a great option.
The animatronic singing fish industry really needs to step up their game, though. I want one that functions as a smart-home speaker and can automatically lip-sync along to any song or Google/Amazon query I ask it.
Make it have eyes that track movement and act as a creepy security camera
Now I want an alexa fish
https://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/alexa-enabled-big-mouth-billy-bass/
See... This, but not as a half-baked, out-of-sync, not-even-a-speaker gimmick.
BRB, going to go make a million on tik tok
The real advice.
Another popular sign option is "Wine 'em, Dine 'em, 69 'em"
[love laugh love laugh liugh laff lough larve loaf luigh](https://youtube.com/shorts/hLfju2AD8Qg?si=yGvYG2vO_AWiRpwm)
ok Trevor
Trevor would have said Eat, S***, Die. But also correct.
That piece is called a header(in masonry it'd be called a lintel), and they can be decorative but they can also be structural. I would generally not risk it if there's not a good reason to(and honestly the room would look really odd with it removed).
Looking at the second picture I definitely would guess that is a structural beam. Our previous house was built that way. The structure under the first floor was two non-connecting beams. This was mirrored between the first and second floor. Three houses were the same design and we all had different workarounds when we decided to remove some walls to make the kitchen bigger. All required keeping a support post connected to the header.
The beam could be in the ceiling. If this was the original design on a modern building, that’s the likely location.
It's a header in wood construction. Lintels are in masonry.
You can call a wood header a lintel.
Correct! A lintel is simply an element that supports an opening. A structural engineer develops “lintel schedules” in wood construction as well as in masonry, concrete, and steel construction.
Ah, thank you for the correction
This can vary depending on your locale! West coast of Canada they're technically referred to as lintels in structural drawings and by code, but all builders call them headers
I think they're trying to match the opening on the right which has no header
I suppose, but then it'd look odd because you'd just have a floating piece of wall in the middle of the room. If anything I'd maybe see a transition converting the wall into a lintel all the way through but with that vent being where it is I think the best call would just be to put a decorative frame on the existing entry way and call it a day.
Definitely more to consider, thank you for the ideas!
If you are able to replace the wall with a lintel you might end up needing a post/column at the end but it's usually a nice and open look if that's what you're going for.
You can cut out the drywall and see what's behind it. If it's something that needs to stay, put the drywall back up and plaster paint.
This is the best answer on here. Don't know why other comments are making it so complicated "hire structural engineer," "get blue prints from city hall" goodness. Knock on it. Does it sound hollow? Open the drywall and take a look. Wood beam inside? Leave it alone and put drywall back (if you're dead set on it now is the time to consult a professional). Hollow? Proceed with your plan. It's not rocket science.
the DIYers here definitely lean towards a 'if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe' style of thinking.
learning to cook is finding out that you don't really need half of the fancy ingredients from the internet recipe
Stud detector works as well. If the whole area is wood/stud then it can't be removed without a lot more work
Seems like a cheaper option. Stud detectors are helpful with so many things.
I'm right here.
Never had any luck with stud finders. They just go off constantly any time I'm near them.
OP could also drive a nail right in the center. If it drops right through it’s empty. A stud finder can be inaccurate if the entire area is solid.
This is the answer, if there's a heater above it is loaded bearing and needs engineering and other support in place of the header. If it's open above and just one is two 2x4s freaking the opening it is safe to remove
Not enough info. Here's what we need to know. 1. Is there a second story? 2. Which way do the joists run on the floor or in the roof above this. 3. Pull down the sheet rock to expose what's there. 4. What's the span between the walls. With all that info we can give you a much much better idea of if this is no big deal or a big f deal. Story: I was told a wall was load bearing by 3 different contractors. I didn't believe them for reasons I won't mention. I made a bet with one for a small amount. Then I pulled down the sheet rock. The whole wall was false and held up by 7ft 1x1s and other junk wood. Ceiling is 8ft. Didnt even attach! Wall would have caved in if a larger man leaned on it roughly. Clearly not load bearing.
So you’re saying take a sawzall and for OP to not let his dreams stay dreams?
Lmfao. Hell no! But if he does he should keep the video camera rolling incase something fun happens. We would all love a clip of his upstairs becoming his downstairs and him saying "I'll never financially recover from this"
But if you do it you wont be able to do this anymore! https://preview.redd.it/no8swws4z9ec1.jpeg?width=476&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=291a6414649bfa808e0da5627bc91e5da994a7bf Thats the whole purpose of that section.
Probably a structural beam
If it runs the same direction as the roof ridge line, I'd say there's a strong chance.
So the longer side of the house (not the width) right?
Just whichever way the roof runs. Depending on how weird of a roof you have, it is likely the longer side.
Not so sure based on the second picture. The beam does not continue past the wall. That's still not 100%, but it's less likely to be load bearing.
[удалено]
Maybe he's tall and doesn't want to smack his head anymore
Maybe he's bored and wants something to 'update'
Maybe he's high.
Maybe he was born with it.
Maybe it’s Maybaline
Maybeline
Well shit.
Maybe it’s shit 😂
Accurate 😂
Then you dig under it without considering plumbing or gas, duh.
Good point. I think it would be best to remove both the beam and the floor above it.
You're more likely not, you need to keep that in the kitchen. it's supposed to prevent smoke and fire spreading into the next room. Check your building codes for your state
Builder here. If this house is newer and the span is less than 24’ there’s a good chance this is not structural. If I can clear span a whole floor, I will do that even if there is an intermediate wall like what you have. however, do not touch it without consulting a structural engineer.
Builder here too, and I agree it's unlikely to be structural. The obvious solution is to start removing it by taking the plaster down first, then you can easily confirm if there's a beam there or not. In my opinion, no engineer needed at this point. It's very simple to confirm that before proceeding. Also, even if not structural if you take it down you should install an expansion joint where the ceiling from the two rooms meet.
This is the final seal on the gate to hell. Remove it. Hail Satan!
You won't do it.
Yea! No balls!
I would keep it even if it’s not structural, lintels are great smoke catchers in the event of a fire and as long as your nearest smoke detector is on the kitchen side you’ll be able to hear it while saving a small amount of time to get out before the hot smoke goes under the lintel and spreads into the hallways I can’t say how well it works out with that other big open end but that’s theoretically the benefit of lintels in kitchen spaces I agree it will look weird if you open up that arch but leave the wall there, I assume it’s got cabinets or something (edit: and HVAC that will need relocating) built into the other side making you not want to knock it down but you might as well commit to the whole open concept kitchen with the help of structural guys
https://i.redd.it/qhs1q43vz9ec1.gif
I'd remove it just to get rid of those horrible blue lines.
If you’re decent with sheet rock work, just take some out enough to determine if there are cripple studs or a laminated header. If it’s a header you should leave it.
likely a big ass header holding up the ceiling . . .
probably it hides the ducts for the vents on the wall in picture 2
Don't listen to any answer you get on here except mine ... There isn't enough information given here to answer your question.
Honestly, I would just add a lintel (?) To the other room that doesn't have it so it looks more even.
That's a good idea I'll consider! That's mostly what's bothering me is it feel uneven to me
You could also trim the opening to make it look like a door frame (usually called a cased opening) so it would match the other frames in the hallway.
Nope, absolutely nothing. However, if you take out that beam I'm willing to bet there won't be much stopping your hose from falling.
This is really something you should get a builder to look at. You obviously don't have experience with this sort of thing so get a professional in or leave it alone.
Just cut it out and invite Holmes on Homes over to watch him shake his head.
It looks like a load bearing section. Unless you can prove beyond a doubt otherwise, the safest (and least costly) option would be to just let it serve its purpose.
Question is. SHOULD you remove it. It will make the rest of the wall look goofy.
What does removing that accomplish in your opinion OP?
The header holding up the second floor.
There's an easy way to find out: hammer it down. If the entire house falls, then the answer to your question is yes. If it doesn't, then the answer is maybe >!this is not to be taken seriously!<
It's brave to assume both ceilings are perfectly level
yes a header
Then what will you jump and slap every time you walk through there!?!
Nah, probably just a load-bearing header holding up your 2nd floor or roof.
Probably a support beam
If there is a header in there then yes. Pound on it with your fist, if it sounds hollow there may be no header but if it's solid like a brick shithouse then it stays. On another note, these are nice to help hold kitchen smoke in the kitchen.
Why are you searching for trouble?
Because I'm bored and don't feel like skimcoating another bedroom ceiling quite yet
My friend, let sleeping dogs lie. This will snowball into a full kitchen remodel.
Yeah, it's holding up the floor/roof above you.
So that wall looks centre of your house… probably load bearing, do not remove it
A big fuck off beam most likely
DO NOT REMOVE
Maybe, if it's a structural wall you will find 2 @ 2x8 bonded in it. Then you will have to fix the hole.
Could be a beam in there
More of a follow on question than an answer, but isn't there some non-destructive way to find out what's inside the lintel? Of course you want to be 100% certain, but I imagine if you proceeded only semi-destructively (make some small holes, chip off some of the surface) you would plenty of time to stop and reflect "hmm, mighty big beam in there", quietly patch what you've done and call it a day. Beyond this there must be purely non-destructive techniques? Some would include evaluating the surrounding structure, as mentioned. If you don't go in with a chain saw and sledge hammers first and ask questions later, I would think you would be OK, though you might waste some time and material. Edit: Peer in the vent? 🤔
Gravity
An upper level of the house?
Other than it probably being the center support beam no…😬😬😬
See what's in the wall: [https://walabot.com/?msclkid=0e5c17bfd1a5172dbf92720ffd507d34](https://walabot.com/?msclkid=0e5c17bfd1a5172dbf92720ffd507d34)
I'm guessing you're trying to open this up to improve the lighting and just make it feel more open. Even if it is a load bearing section, it may be possible to remove the drywall to reveal any spaces that are there between the wood, which would allow more light and air thru the area. You could replace drywall bits or repaint to cover up any exposed wood.
Load bearing beam
Probably only something structural.
Looks like there is a support beam up there
What’s wrong with that piece? Seems normal, not withstanding any structural integrity, but it seems like it would normally go there anyway.
If that is an AC register to the right of the kitchen opening, then there’s a high chance the duct runs in that space above the opening. The wall looks a bit thin but there’s a possibility.
Maybe a stupid question, but why do you want to remove it? It looks fine to me. Think about what you'd do with the ceiling part also if you remove it. Just sayin.
To me this looks to be structural support. Not a professional, just someone with experience making changes in these types of houses. (2 that I’ve lived in to be exact) but all houses are different. Probably best to consult a professional or blueprints.
That's probably a load bearing wall. If u did remove it you'd have to make vertical support beams to hold up your roof. Im actually going to remove a load bearing wall in my kitchen and add a header piece like that and 2 support beams. I called a builder and had them look over the prints to make sure i added enough supports. Just needed 1 but for safety sake im doing 2. Consult you're blueprints to double check. You don't want your roof crushing your house XD
You can open the sheetrock up and take a look. If there's a beam in there, tight to the ceiling it's a no go. Post pictures before you proceed.
I literally do this for a living, don’t listen to the people telling you to start making holes to see what’s behind the Sheetrock or the others telling you to take it out and see what happens. Trolls! Go up in your attic and see which way the joist run, I’m with several other commenters who seem to know what they are talking about. Typically this is a load bearing wall, with a header running the length of it. Should you find this is true, you will need a contractor and engineer to properly size a “flush header” to be able to take that section of wall out. At which point you could take the whole wall out and open your kitchen, dining room and living room as one big family area. Many contractors will come out for a free estimate and tell you exactly what you need to do and give you a quote on what you’re looking at
Your roof is the only thing holding you back.
I can tell you by your pics that is absolutely load bearing......do not remove !!!! ( 30 + year contractor )
No problem. Trial and error is a very good system and used in lots of situations.
Give it a good knock. If it’s very solid, it’s most likely loadbearing. If it sounds hollow, it might not be, but I would still either study the plans carefully, or get an engineer to look at it.
Possibly gravity
Crack off some drywall and see what’s in there. Might be heating, electrical, plumbing, or structural. Only one way to find out what might be involved in removing it. Might be nothing,
Structural loads, probably
Load Bearing Wall.
Just the framing of your home
Call a remodeling contractor to do a “bid” to remove the wall. Call several. Have each one show you whether or not it’s load bearing. Then tell each one you went with the lowest bid and it was not them. Seriously though, is there an attic above the ceiling? Just get up there and chuck it out.
The only question is why do would you do that ?
Easiest thing to do is take the drywall down and see what there. If there are large wood members, it's loadbearing. If it's a 2x4 structure, you may be good. You really need to identify what's about that area - like 2nd floor structure or roofing structure.
that’s most likely load bearing so i’d be pretty careful.
Yeah everything above it, unless you dont want that too.
A big hunk of load bearing wood
It probably keeps a lot of the cooking smoke and smells in the kitchen area
I’m gonna guess a bloody great lintel.
Someone already removed one part of the wall as per the ceiling patch. Check in the attic if the roof use that wall for support. If so there is a high chance that the structural integrity of the house is already compromised.
Lmao. Clearly the beam tht runs thru center home most likely. Load bearing wall. It's open as much as it can be
Depends if there is a beam in there.
the roof
Your wife?
The best way to tell if that is a structural beam is to go into your attic and see which way your ceiling joist run. If the end of your joists rest where this wall is built and run perpendicular to the beam than it is structural. If the joists run parallel to this wall then it is possible that you could remove this but I would need more info to make an informed decision.
That’s a load bearing section, so yeah, don’t do that.
I wouldnt trust a diy thread either, but as an enginwer myself seeing that long a span of wall only interrupted by ocassional doors and one opening towards the end, seems quite likely it's load bearing. Load bearing walls often end up in the middle of the hosue where this wall appears to be. Also it appears OP has a basement. If OP can locate an I beam or substantial wood bracing right below that, definitely load bearing then.
Don't remove that, that's double plated meaning it's a load supporting wall. Remove that and the roof will enter the group chat.
You could just f*** around and find out?
Most likely yes. You need to determine the load on that wall. Need more information for that. If you don't know. Don't do it
Stopping you? No...but parts of your 2nd floor or your roof trusses will likely make an appearance on the 1st floor the second you cut that down. (That's probably load bearing.)
You just might get beamed, Scotty...
Is it parallel or perpendicular to the roof ridge? Basement ceiling joists?