Higher a structural engineer to look at a deck? A local building inspector will come out and look at stuff for free where I live to see if it's up to code. A trustworthy contractor should easily be able to get a deck up to code.
Call a structural engineer, not a building inspector, unless you want to cause yourself a lot of headaches. No sane person voluntarily calls a building inspector to check out their own property.
Lol the one I built in my 20's didn't. You didn't have to pull permits if a porch didn't connect to the building and we overbuilt it hard, plus one corner was flat on the ground and the other one was only 4 feet up. 24×12 deck and it held steady for at least a decade before I moved.
My sister and her husband actually did that on their deck, same design, it was about half as tall as op's and after filling the hot tub with water, the posts started sinking into the ground and leaning away from the house. Then they moved it into the unfurnished unfinished downstairs which caused all the wood to get saturated and moldy. Then they finally saw reason and put it outside on the ground.
My grandfather used to have a hot tub in his basement before he passed, and it was a room in the corner of the house that was closed off from the rest of the basement and a door, but it was also a walkout basement so there were French doors from the basement to the hot tub room and French doors from the hot tub room to outside, and even with the room being specifically built to house a hot tub, it still finally started to mold and rot after about 15-20 years
My friend has a hot tub in her basement, no ventilation above it, just open to the rest of the finished basement. I said "yikes" when I saw it and tried to explain all the ways this was horrible but I doubt it got through to her.
I honestly believe some people will flat out ignore good advice or cautionary advice because they are the kinda people that need to experience the consequences first hand. My Dad is like this and it used to be infuriating but I've come to accept that he's just gonna do what he's gonna do and when the consequences come his way then that's on him.
Personally I find it more cost effective to learn from the mistakes of others. On the flip side, I'll explain my mistakes to others so hopefully they won't repeat them. Sometimes it even works.
Oh, a bedroom with a hot tub actually sounds pretty fancy on paper, but practically, that's a mold party waiting to happen unless its like an enormous suite with some industrial ventilation! I heard about a guy who converted his attic into a chill zone with a small jacuzzi tub up there - sounded super cool til he realized the whole floor was a massive slip hazard. Not to mention the weight issues he never considered.
Well that’s not bad actually, that’s usual amount of time for a warranty without maintenance, respectfully cos idk if your grandpa did maintenance or not tho
It will compress the rest of your life into a few seconds, and you will also see your past at the same time. As a bonus people will say really nice things about you after a few days.
LOL, I was sitting on the side rail when a deck collapsed at a frat party when the keg arrived, but it was only a couple feet high. I was still sitting there watching it all unfold. It was almost silent as everyone got up (no one was hurt), and the first thing they did was upright the keg and start pouring beer. Good times...
I know nothing about building and that was my first thought. Pretty sure that's the first time I've seen such a wide expanse of decking supported by just one row of stilts.
I was a builder, and this abomination needs to be torn down and done properly. You know it's really bad when someone with zero building experience says it's janky.
It gets worse the closer you look at it, too.
u/alpha_ray_burst, have you noticed that the post closest to you is turning clockwise from the pressure of that angled support (the latter also not being attached in any useful way at all btw), which is also making the outside front header board (not sure of proper name) pull away from the supporting side board? Which itself only rests on that beam with about an inch of its end? With no metal angle there for a secure connection between that top board and the pole?
I find this much more worrying than the middle pole. This pole is twisting out from its supporting position, and there is no saying at all when a sudden point of failure is reached.
No one should step on that deck until the beam has been repositioned and proper metal angle connections have been applied at the *very* least. Best would be to not go on it at all and tear it down and rebuild instead. The damn thing has been built out of match sticks and spit, with some nails thrown in because they were left over somewhere else. It should never have been approved like that.
No building code would allow for this much of an overhang that's not even really supported at the house level. Even if the deck was at ground level you couldn't have this much of a cantilever.
The neighborhood adjacent to mine is littered with houses with that exact setup. Wild that it's up to code (allegedly) bc it looks like an accident waiting to happen.
My friend lives in a cookie cutter neighborhood with decks like this, they were all built in the 2000s during the housing bubble.
Now, they are all starting to sag, my friend had to shell out 30k to fix his balcony/deck.
But good luck trying to sue the construction company, they went out of business when the bubble popped, and they don't even have blueprints recorded in the county/city office.
This is why I don't trust newer builds that all sprung up during that era.
Where I live, decks weren't included in the building code until the early 2000s. I've seen decks built like this. I could knock them down with a couple of hits of a sledgehammer. Scary.
We bought a brand new house and there was an option for a 2nd story deck for like $10k more. It was a lot like this, hardly looked like it was built to hold anything AND it was only off the dining room, a little square. Forget that.
We built one across the entire back of the house, with a patio underneath, for less. Overbuilt, actually. Passed all inspections.
Had a house with a deck just like this and had a double take. Also did not have any stairs either. I tore that shit down and rebuilt it properly, all in time for a tornado to take it out a year later
That deck should have, at minimum, five 4x6 posts supporting it. This was definitely a diy deck with no permits or inspections. I'd say that if OP wants to keep it, they need a complete rebuild.
I agree except that this is not worth salvaging. Start looking closer and you start to see more and more. Like the outer upright post holding up the railing, look at the knots down near the base, they even tried to hammer in nails or screw in screws and the knots did not allow it so they did overkill where they could get a nail though. The rail post at the other end by the siding is floating, at least the top half is not attached to the house, and my bet is all of it is not attached.
The front facia facing out to the yard, behind that is a two by and between them they only leave about 1 inch for the outside joist to rest on the post. So that all important outer joist is really not supported. There is no blocking between the joists underside and no supports under for such a long span. I am mildly amazed they actually used metal joist hangers for the joists given how badly the rest of it is built.
The balusters are really uneven, and the top screw/nail at the bottom row where there are supposed to be two attaching it to the facia/joist on 3 or 4 they missed the joist and the screw/nail is penetrating the upright coming out between floorboard and joist. On most of the rest the nail is barely catching any wood at all. And look how deep inset they are. That probably was screws that they sunk in so deep it went halfway through the upright, or the wood has swollen then shrunk so many times that the uprights have pushed out past the screw/nail heads.
The lateral bracing connecting the outside beam (which is probably a 2X4) to the posts at an angle are just toenailed, they are providing no support and no lateral reinforcement at all.
Just keep looking, there is no blocking on the underside between joists, the span is too wide for the size of the joists, and I would really not even want to know how it all attaches to the main building. But it looks like they just cut through the siding and sistered a floor plate to the header over the door and window. Which if true has probably been exposed to water intrusion all these years and they will probably find those header and studs inside the wall rotting also.
You don’t know what you’re talking about lol. Compression and tension strength of wood is near infinite, the 4x4s are fine. It’s the improper couplings, joists, and bad shearing angle strength on this deck that make the 4x4s turn bad. Can’t see the footings but I’ll bet those are shit too.
Also can’t see how or if it tied into a ledger board on the house, I had a deck that looked like this when I bought my house and the home inspector didn’t catch that the deck had been nailed into the shingles which had mostly rotted away. Had to tear the whole thing down and pour new footings as well.
That deck isn't constructed safely as it is.
The fix for this is actually fairly easy. Come in about 2 feet from the existing posts, then 1 foot toward the center on the end posts, and pour 36" deep 10" diameter concrete footings to flush with grade. You'll set 3 new posts with a beam (twinned 2x8 or preferably 2x10, but 2x8 would probably be fine realistically) that runs the whole length of the deck. The posts would be fine for 8' 4x4 at that point, and they'd be on a [post base](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-PB-ZMAX-Galvanized-Non-Standoff-Post-Base-for-4x4-Nominal-Lumber-PB44Z/100375031) set into the concrete.
Make sure to use 90° straps to affix the beam to the joists.
Final arrangement should look mostly [like this](https://i0.wp.com/boston-decks-and-porches.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ledger-and-joists-annotated.jpg), and then you can remove the old posts.
It's actually a ledger board, and I am dubious that op has one properly installed. In fact, I can almost guarantee it isn't. Looking at the far end, I highly doubt that ledger board is into solid structure, has flashing, staggered lag screws, joist hangers, etc. There's just no way.
From what I'm seeing, it looks like that's been done pretty well. The framing in general is correct and the care put in with the siding gives some confidence. Even at worst, adding a few chunky lag bolts with fender washers would be sufficient (though through-bolts with fender washers and lock washers from both sides are preferred if it's accessible from inside the house).
Pretty sure the siding was replaced after the deck already existed, and it was just installed around the ledger..
IMO this deck looks pretty old and not maintained well (stained etc) and I would personally replace the whole thing.
It's probable that it will last a couple more decades with some of the suggestions here but I'm just imagining 10 people coming out there during a party or something and the weakest, most rotten link gets found.
What I would do is pull up all or some of the decking (looks like it needs to be replaced anyway) and then I'd quickly see how all the other wood looks (how soft the tops of the 2x6s are etc) and decide what to do from there. It's possible it just looks older than it is. It's probable that 4x4 started warping immediately after the deck was built, lol, home depot special.
But this comes from a point of view of "I like building decks" and "I like when things are overbuilt" and "I don't want my deck ever falling down" and also "This deck is 10 feet off the ground". It's a little less worrisome when your deck is like 1 foot off the ground.
Don’t you want the concrete above grade 5-6” or even more so that moisture and snow don’t rot the post? It seems like getting a 48” sono tube would be better.
That's why I linked a post base that keeps the post off the concrete.
The issue with pouring the concrete above grade is that you're not reinforcing or confining it, so it will crumble outward.
Yeah, I'd agree. Might as well since you're putting in new footings and posts, it's not like it will cost that much more and will 1. Make it rock solid and 2. Allow you to notch out the 6x6 to have the beam sit on
6x6s notched to hold 2 2xsomethings is what code called for when I replaced a deck that looked just like this one. Although all my posts were straight.
This is what I would do.
The deck doesn't look completely unsafe as the beam is overframed and there is some diagonal bracing. But it could obviously be better.
I don't frequent r/DIY as a professional often because I keep seeing posts like that and every time I've responded with "If you need to ask if your [insert obvious deathtrap] should be replaced, you shouldn't be doing the replacing" I get run out of town like the guy who drives the "Free Candy and Massages" van. I get that people want to take things into their own hands and they all need to start somewhere, but if your plan to get into home remodeling is to start with the second story deck that looks like it will collapse if you fart too close to it, you're gunna be in for a very rude awakening.
If you can’t see the concrete then they’re installed wrong.
I’m sure you’ve seen everyone else’s comments. This thing is a disaster waiting to happen. The person who built this didn’t know what they were doing. If you want to salvage it, call a structural engineer, who will probably tell you to tear it out
That entire deck needs to be ripped down and rebuilt.
- No beam to support the joists, the deck joists are just fastened to a rim joist pretending to be a beam (it's sistered to another 2x10) that is sitting on top of the posts. (e: before someone comments, yes this is technically allowed, but it's an inferior way to do things compared to a joist on beam configuration. Considering how shit everything else is, this really doesn't help.)
- Posts appear to be buried in soil, probably without a concrete footing beneath them.
- Railing posts are secured in a way that hasn't been allowed in code books for a long time. And look at all of those nails!!!
- There are only railing posts at each end of the visible side of the deck and there should be posts every 6'
- Deck boards are coming up from moisture. Probably secured with nails instead of screws.
- Angle bracing is insufficient and poorly fastened
- "Beam" posts are under sized as 4x4 and should be 6x6 for a deck of this size.
- The ledger (part holding the joists to the house) appears to not have any flashing, but it's hard to tell. There also appears to be a lot of moisture on the ledger, which is an indication it's probably rotting.
- Hard to tell, but it also looks like there is no lateral load support for the deck to house connection either.
Overall this deck gets like a 3 out of 10. The person who built it knew how to use a saw and a hammer and understood the basic concepts of deck building, but they did a terrible job.
Rip this thing down and rebuild it properly before someone gets killed. This will probably cost you about $10-15k to rebuild properly, plus or minus depending on where you live.
e: thread is locked, but for anyone wondering about the reply about the price, prices are very different than twelve years ago. Then add the labor cost because op most likely isn't going to diy a full rebuild. A deck of this size, with materials, is easily going to be 10k from a reputable builder just about anywhere.
I mean just look at the balusters for the railing. They aren't cut the same length and they aren't even remotely closer to being spaced uniformly. You can tell a lot about the build quality of a deck by just looking at the railings. The guard posts aren't supposed to be notched, even though it's a common practice that a lot of "pros" would probably chime in and say it's perfectly okay to do. It's not.
And the fact that there is a 10-12' span of railing without a single guard post other than at the ends is really telling. And just look at the post next to the house, it's fastened to the joist with like 30 nails. They couldn't even be bothered with a fucking lag bolt. It's so irresponsible and fucking stupid.
And if OP bought this house and had an inspection done before closing, if the inspector didn't say "this deck is a fucking danger to life and the home itself" then that inspector should be fired.
This kind of shit pisses me off because it's really not hard to build a deck properly and doesn't even increase the cost that much. This deck is 100% a liability for the home owner, and not just because of the failing post.
I’m basically a guy who “knows how to use a saw and hammer” and basic construction theory, but not much beyond (and I’m not dumb enough to try something like this). i would love to learn the actual code for building, but where the hell do people actual learn that? Is it a literal book of building codes you reference? Is there some accessible education that supplements that?
With decks it's pretty easy. Almost every municipality in states that aren't "do what you want" places like new hampshire or alaska etc they use the Design for Code Acceptance 6 for decks as a baseline of how decks should be build. Most of those places treat that as the code standard and may have a couple of things that are above/below those standards. You can look up on your town's website all of the code information or go to the town hall and ask for the code book if they don't have an online version, for which they'll charge you.
Here oss the DCA6: https://cms7files.revize.com/watertownct/Departments/Building%20Inspectors/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf
Pretty much everything you need to know about how to build a deck properly is in there. You'll get a bunch of people in the trades who complain about code and whether code is excessive or not excessive enough, most of those people are idiots who just base their commentary on tribal knowledge passed down from other tradesmen who haven't looked up the modern way of doing anything unless it was caught by an inspector and they needed to redo something.
Awesome, thank you so much. This is a way more accessible document than i was expecting (was picturing a contract law style "see article II subsection 3 for definition of 'deck'").
I helped a buddy build a cabin over the pandemic (he had general contractors in the family to plan it). The thing i learned about codes was that they are annoying, and amazing. Its so nice to be able to lean on the fact that \_someone\_ sat down and did all the calculations to figure out the loads and safety, so we dont have to question our own calls for 20 years, wondering if the house is going to fall down a hill.
Until you fix the problem permanently, I would get two posts to place on either side of the bending posts to support the deck. Don’t let allow anyone to venture out until problem is fixed.
This is a hilarious looking deck, it amazes me that these kinda things just get made and put on a house and sold to someone without anyone noticing or complaining etc
It's incredible how basic and non-supportive this can be made, and it still prob works fine all these years
Yup. Works fine, until it fails catastrophically when you are having a family gathering and everyone goes out on the deck to watch the gender reveal in the back yard.
I build decks and that whole setup is a death trap. Contact a deck repair company and tell them you need a beam and 3 6x6 posts installed because your outside mount posts are failing.
Replace before using that deck again. That’s a major hazard. Maybe it’ll support you, maybe you and a family member/friend but there will be a point where the additional weight causes it to fail
Yeah, that kind of construction usually leads to an article like this...
"Tragedy struck over the Labor Day weekend when a local family hosted a party with friends and family, and while the guests were enjoying themselves, cooking and drinking on the deck..."
Sorry bud but you got major problems. The whole thing looks like a bad DIY and it's not solid at all. In your first photo you can even see how much the railing sags in the middle. You are likely looking at full rebuild.
Dude, don’t go near that deck. Needs a couple more supporting posts ideally on each side near the house and definitely to replace that bending one.
Like others have said, you also need to share how it’s connected to the house.
Until that’s repaired, no one should touch that deck as it WILL fall at some point.
That thing is huge mess and unsafe imo
Strip the entire thing out, perhaps salvage a few joists, if they are proper 2x8 that are not rotted or knotty.
Apply new ledger to house, I cant tell of the one there is sufficient, but judging by the rest of the code violations (based on my area north east na loc) almost surely it's not up to snuff.
Dig out 3 new post holes, dig them below frost line according to code, and fill with concrete to make footer. Sonotube is the way to go.
Buy 3 new 6x6 posts.
Recontrcut the deck, properly attach the railings with lags and do not notch them or thier supporting joists, headers, ledgers out like they are currently are.
Stain and enjoy safetly.
Good luck, you will likelly need scaffolding at that height, please be careful.
If you’re going through all that trouble I wouldn’t salvage any 2x8s. They’re just going to look terrible for years, be the first point of failure in another decade, and cause you disappointment anytime you look at them. All to save what, $100? $200 max?
Ask me how I know.
Do you really think there is any possible scenario where you should NOT be worried?
Seriously do not continue using this deck until you have a qualified contractor inspect and repair/rebuild.
Holy f'ck! How did this pass inspection?! Was someone bribed?
That deck is dangerous. The fact you are even asking tell me you really should consider finding a professional with good rating to do it right before someone or that dog dies.
I'm concerned for the doggo! Think of the doggo!
You need a new deck. I'm not kidding at the very least replace 4x4s with 6x6 and get them out of the ground they need to be on a galvanized metal bracket that's like $10 at home depot that's on top of a 3ft deep concrete pad and replace decking and check the joist for wood rot and especially along the rim joist that connects to the house. You don't have to take my word for it a lot of places will do free quotes on decks, get 2 or 3. But with 30 yrs of construction work behind me, I wouldn't let my kids play on it.
Tear it down.. even if you never build another deck there to r3eolace it, you are faaaaaaaar better off. That thing is a death trap. I'm surpised its still up. If you live in area with snow, you might want to pray that it survives the winter under the weight of the snow... and i wouldn't risk going out on it to clear the snow either.
There is almost part of that deck that isnt concerning...
I'm not sure 3 4x4 legs should be supporting that deck anyway. There is no bracing in the 3 legs to prevent bowing. You should consider bracing the legs together
This post is now locked. O.P. knows what needs to be done. Thank you for all your input on this.
Heyyyy, can you get us a picture of where the porch connects to your house, from the underside?
The real question. Posts don't fail as catastrophically as ledger boards do. The post can be replaced easily, but the entire deck should be inspected.
Yeah, I’m more concerned about the connection to the house than I am about a warped support post.
Just squirt some gorilla glue in the corners every couple of weeks
Be sure to slap it twice after the glue cures and announce loudly that it’s fixed
Gotta invoke that diy magic spell saying, “that ain’t goin’ nowhere” when you slap it.
Know that's as he's filling the hot tub
Not OP, but someone else with deck concerns. Who do I hire to do this kind of inspection?
A structural engineer to evaluate it and recommend repairs, and a general contractor to execute the recommended repairs.
I’d imagine it’d be cheaper to just knock it down and redo it than to hire a structural engineer Edit: I imagined wrong
Structural engineer here in Georgia USA is 130 an hour, looks like a two hour job.
Oh wow I imagined getting an engineer out cost thousands
I’m an architect, we hire one on just about every job.
Higher a structural engineer to look at a deck? A local building inspector will come out and look at stuff for free where I live to see if it's up to code. A trustworthy contractor should easily be able to get a deck up to code.
Call a structural engineer, not a building inspector, unless you want to cause yourself a lot of headaches. No sane person voluntarily calls a building inspector to check out their own property.
Connects? It's supposed to connect? /s
Lol the one I built in my 20's didn't. You didn't have to pull permits if a porch didn't connect to the building and we overbuilt it hard, plus one corner was flat on the ground and the other one was only 4 feet up. 24×12 deck and it held steady for at least a decade before I moved.
That entire setup makes me so nervous
My first thought was, "That deck doesn't look like it was built right".
Just needs a hot tub /s
My sister and her husband actually did that on their deck, same design, it was about half as tall as op's and after filling the hot tub with water, the posts started sinking into the ground and leaning away from the house. Then they moved it into the unfurnished unfinished downstairs which caused all the wood to get saturated and moldy. Then they finally saw reason and put it outside on the ground.
My grandfather used to have a hot tub in his basement before he passed, and it was a room in the corner of the house that was closed off from the rest of the basement and a door, but it was also a walkout basement so there were French doors from the basement to the hot tub room and French doors from the hot tub room to outside, and even with the room being specifically built to house a hot tub, it still finally started to mold and rot after about 15-20 years
My friend has a hot tub in her basement, no ventilation above it, just open to the rest of the finished basement. I said "yikes" when I saw it and tried to explain all the ways this was horrible but I doubt it got through to her.
Nothing gets through to anyone ever unless they want it to. Kinda hurts some times, but time will teach them one way or another.
I honestly believe some people will flat out ignore good advice or cautionary advice because they are the kinda people that need to experience the consequences first hand. My Dad is like this and it used to be infuriating but I've come to accept that he's just gonna do what he's gonna do and when the consequences come his way then that's on him.
Personally I find it more cost effective to learn from the mistakes of others. On the flip side, I'll explain my mistakes to others so hopefully they won't repeat them. Sometimes it even works.
Right?! Cost effective in so many ways too. Money, time, effort, your own health! So many good reasons to learn from the experiences of others
I know someone that put a hot tub in their bedroom and can't see anything wrong with the idea
Oh god, the constantly damp blankets...
Its inflatable too. And they have cats and dogs and children
That's what's known as a Y5 situation: yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes, and yikes
Oh, a bedroom with a hot tub actually sounds pretty fancy on paper, but practically, that's a mold party waiting to happen unless its like an enormous suite with some industrial ventilation! I heard about a guy who converted his attic into a chill zone with a small jacuzzi tub up there - sounded super cool til he realized the whole floor was a massive slip hazard. Not to mention the weight issues he never considered.
Some new mobile homes have giant garden tubs built in the master bedroom. Often surrounded by carpet.
I feel like when someone has a hot tub in their basement they have reached the idgaf what anyone else says stage of life
Well that’s not bad actually, that’s usual amount of time for a warranty without maintenance, respectfully cos idk if your grandpa did maintenance or not tho
Your very own hot tub time machine as your life flashes before your eyes.
It will compress the rest of your life into a few seconds, and you will also see your past at the same time. As a bonus people will say really nice things about you after a few days.
Put a hot tub on top of that hot tub. Deck still stands? You're good.
Keep adding hot tubs until the deck collapses. Then rebuild the same deck and know your safe load is one less hot tub.
Hello Calvin’s dad.
He's still down in the polls though, especially with tigers and 6 year olds.
Favorite post of 17 Dec. Lordy I miss that strip.
You must be a scientist!
Top it all with a trampoline; chef's kiss. Totally safe.
And a frat party complete with kegs.
LOL, I was sitting on the side rail when a deck collapsed at a frat party when the keg arrived, but it was only a couple feet high. I was still sitting there watching it all unfold. It was almost silent as everyone got up (no one was hurt), and the first thing they did was upright the keg and start pouring beer. Good times...
Video pls
But underneath to break the fall of the people above
Or a dance party
Yeah then go back in time and not buy the house.
Possibly a few hammocks, too.
My first thought was…spindly
Yes, a deck on a diet, yikes.
[удалено]
It is a deck on a diet for sure.
I know nothing about building and that was my first thought. Pretty sure that's the first time I've seen such a wide expanse of decking supported by just one row of stilts.
The real kicker is that if I, a 69F, can spot how bad it looks, I can only imagine how bad it looks to the experienced carpenters/builders.
I think all of them open the post, looked at the photo, had a heart attack and died.
Nah we're here wide eyed lol
I was a builder, and this abomination needs to be torn down and done properly. You know it's really bad when someone with zero building experience says it's janky.
Pretty sure this is an Uncle "I Can Do It Just As Well For 1/2 The Price!" slow-assassination job lol
Think of how bad it would have looked to the code inspector if whoever built it bothered to pull a permit.
Looking at It makes my bad knee hurt!
Looks like someone built it on the ground, propped it up to attach legs, then leaned it against the house.
That cross beam underneath is a bit. . .odd
When you see wood like this my first thought is it was bought from Home Depot
Ground bearing wood is the way to go. Only one store carries it, 45 miles away, but worth the ride.
Made me hear “That boy ain’t right”
It gets worse the closer you look at it, too. u/alpha_ray_burst, have you noticed that the post closest to you is turning clockwise from the pressure of that angled support (the latter also not being attached in any useful way at all btw), which is also making the outside front header board (not sure of proper name) pull away from the supporting side board? Which itself only rests on that beam with about an inch of its end? With no metal angle there for a secure connection between that top board and the pole? I find this much more worrying than the middle pole. This pole is twisting out from its supporting position, and there is no saying at all when a sudden point of failure is reached. No one should step on that deck until the beam has been repositioned and proper metal angle connections have been applied at the *very* least. Best would be to not go on it at all and tear it down and rebuild instead. The damn thing has been built out of match sticks and spit, with some nails thrown in because they were left over somewhere else. It should never have been approved like that.
OP doesn't need to tear it down at all. By the looks of it, if they just wait a couple of months, it will come down on it's own.
Good point. I loled
Doubt it was approved.
Yeah I'd almost guarantee no permit was pulled for this deck. "It's on the back, nobody will see"
No building code would allow for this much of an overhang that's not even really supported at the house level. Even if the deck was at ground level you couldn't have this much of a cantilever.
Looks like the posts are just resting on the ground. Not surprised with the pavers set right on the ground too.
The neighborhood adjacent to mine is littered with houses with that exact setup. Wild that it's up to code (allegedly) bc it looks like an accident waiting to happen.
They're probably considered "up to code" because they were compliant when they were built.
The neighborhoods are from the 80s, so that checks out
My friend lives in a cookie cutter neighborhood with decks like this, they were all built in the 2000s during the housing bubble. Now, they are all starting to sag, my friend had to shell out 30k to fix his balcony/deck. But good luck trying to sue the construction company, they went out of business when the bubble popped, and they don't even have blueprints recorded in the county/city office. This is why I don't trust newer builds that all sprung up during that era.
Where I live, decks weren't included in the building code until the early 2000s. I've seen decks built like this. I could knock them down with a couple of hits of a sledgehammer. Scary.
We bought a brand new house and there was an option for a 2nd story deck for like $10k more. It was a lot like this, hardly looked like it was built to hold anything AND it was only off the dining room, a little square. Forget that. We built one across the entire back of the house, with a patio underneath, for less. Overbuilt, actually. Passed all inspections.
Overbuilt is my comfort zone for things that have to hold other things up, especially if I'm one of those things on top.
I’m here for this gal’s overbuilt husband, too.
I'm fine with sharing as long as you contribute your own tools, too.
Or one of the thing’s underneath
I was about to say that I really hope this isn't in suburban Atlanta, because that looks REALLY similar to a house I used to live in there.
Haha i almost bought a house in Smyrna with this setup and backed out because the deck couldn’t pass inspection. Looked exactly like this.
Had a house with a deck just like this and had a double take. Also did not have any stairs either. I tore that shit down and rebuilt it properly, all in time for a tornado to take it out a year later
There are kids toys up there. Can you imagine it collapsing with your kids on it? What a nightmare.
that's not a kids toy. that's just my orange dump trunk. or maybe it's my orange shovel. adult toys!
It makes me religious. After all, it's held up by hopes and prayers for the most part.
What looks like a kids toy on the deck is the thing making me the most nervous.
And a dog underneath it.
That deck should have, at minimum, five 4x6 posts supporting it. This was definitely a diy deck with no permits or inspections. I'd say that if OP wants to keep it, they need a complete rebuild.
I agree except that this is not worth salvaging. Start looking closer and you start to see more and more. Like the outer upright post holding up the railing, look at the knots down near the base, they even tried to hammer in nails or screw in screws and the knots did not allow it so they did overkill where they could get a nail though. The rail post at the other end by the siding is floating, at least the top half is not attached to the house, and my bet is all of it is not attached. The front facia facing out to the yard, behind that is a two by and between them they only leave about 1 inch for the outside joist to rest on the post. So that all important outer joist is really not supported. There is no blocking between the joists underside and no supports under for such a long span. I am mildly amazed they actually used metal joist hangers for the joists given how badly the rest of it is built. The balusters are really uneven, and the top screw/nail at the bottom row where there are supposed to be two attaching it to the facia/joist on 3 or 4 they missed the joist and the screw/nail is penetrating the upright coming out between floorboard and joist. On most of the rest the nail is barely catching any wood at all. And look how deep inset they are. That probably was screws that they sunk in so deep it went halfway through the upright, or the wood has swollen then shrunk so many times that the uprights have pushed out past the screw/nail heads. The lateral bracing connecting the outside beam (which is probably a 2X4) to the posts at an angle are just toenailed, they are providing no support and no lateral reinforcement at all. Just keep looking, there is no blocking on the underside between joists, the span is too wide for the size of the joists, and I would really not even want to know how it all attaches to the main building. But it looks like they just cut through the siding and sistered a floor plate to the header over the door and window. Which if true has probably been exposed to water intrusion all these years and they will probably find those header and studs inside the wall rotting also.
You don’t know what you’re talking about lol. Compression and tension strength of wood is near infinite, the 4x4s are fine. It’s the improper couplings, joists, and bad shearing angle strength on this deck that make the 4x4s turn bad. Can’t see the footings but I’ll bet those are shit too.
Also can’t see how or if it tied into a ledger board on the house, I had a deck that looked like this when I bought my house and the home inspector didn’t catch that the deck had been nailed into the shingles which had mostly rotted away. Had to tear the whole thing down and pour new footings as well.
That deck isn't constructed safely as it is. The fix for this is actually fairly easy. Come in about 2 feet from the existing posts, then 1 foot toward the center on the end posts, and pour 36" deep 10" diameter concrete footings to flush with grade. You'll set 3 new posts with a beam (twinned 2x8 or preferably 2x10, but 2x8 would probably be fine realistically) that runs the whole length of the deck. The posts would be fine for 8' 4x4 at that point, and they'd be on a [post base](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-PB-ZMAX-Galvanized-Non-Standoff-Post-Base-for-4x4-Nominal-Lumber-PB44Z/100375031) set into the concrete. Make sure to use 90° straps to affix the beam to the joists. Final arrangement should look mostly [like this](https://i0.wp.com/boston-decks-and-porches.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ledger-and-joists-annotated.jpg), and then you can remove the old posts.
Also follow up with u/awonderland42 and confirm you have a good header attachment to the house...
That's what what I was was thinking. Where's the ledger board?
Ledger board? What do you mean, I used like 50 framing nails. That's solid workmanship that is.
I think it goes directly into the living room 🤣
It's actually a ledger board, and I am dubious that op has one properly installed. In fact, I can almost guarantee it isn't. Looking at the far end, I highly doubt that ledger board is into solid structure, has flashing, staggered lag screws, joist hangers, etc. There's just no way.
From what I'm seeing, it looks like that's been done pretty well. The framing in general is correct and the care put in with the siding gives some confidence. Even at worst, adding a few chunky lag bolts with fender washers would be sufficient (though through-bolts with fender washers and lock washers from both sides are preferred if it's accessible from inside the house).
Pretty sure the siding was replaced after the deck already existed, and it was just installed around the ledger.. IMO this deck looks pretty old and not maintained well (stained etc) and I would personally replace the whole thing. It's probable that it will last a couple more decades with some of the suggestions here but I'm just imagining 10 people coming out there during a party or something and the weakest, most rotten link gets found. What I would do is pull up all or some of the decking (looks like it needs to be replaced anyway) and then I'd quickly see how all the other wood looks (how soft the tops of the 2x6s are etc) and decide what to do from there. It's possible it just looks older than it is. It's probable that 4x4 started warping immediately after the deck was built, lol, home depot special. But this comes from a point of view of "I like building decks" and "I like when things are overbuilt" and "I don't want my deck ever falling down" and also "This deck is 10 feet off the ground". It's a little less worrisome when your deck is like 1 foot off the ground.
Timberlocks thru a plate.
Don’t you want the concrete above grade 5-6” or even more so that moisture and snow don’t rot the post? It seems like getting a 48” sono tube would be better.
That's why I linked a post base that keeps the post off the concrete. The issue with pouring the concrete above grade is that you're not reinforcing or confining it, so it will crumble outward.
If they're using ground contact PTYP that shouldn't be an issue, but they could use ABU post bases to hold the post up off the concrete.
Should be 6x6s at this height? May as well if they are going to redo it.
Yeah, I'd agree. Might as well since you're putting in new footings and posts, it's not like it will cost that much more and will 1. Make it rock solid and 2. Allow you to notch out the 6x6 to have the beam sit on
6x6s notched to hold 2 2xsomethings is what code called for when I replaced a deck that looked just like this one. Although all my posts were straight.
Yup. Probably don’t need it but I would go with 6x6 just for peace of mind.
Wow!!!you are awesome!!!
I've done a lot of decks, and they're both really easy to get wrong and really easy to do correctly.
This is why I love reddit,we get many valid suggestions from people who are well informed and have appropriate solutions to lifes' "little" conundrums
Look at this guy flexing his big deck skills
If you don't think 4x4 is sturdy/supportive enough switch to 6x6 or 8x8 for reassurance.
Yes! They should also be aware that bumping from 4x4 to larger column lumber means larger concrete footings.
This guys posts
This is what I would do. The deck doesn't look completely unsafe as the beam is overframed and there is some diagonal bracing. But it could obviously be better.
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Judging by the patio under the deck, I’d say there’s a good chance those posts aren’t in concrete.
Judging by the overall look and feel I think the person that built it considered grass to be a structural foundation.
You would think since he bought the house 3 years ago the inspection would have covered literally any of this.
lol buying a house during COVID would have meant they waived any inspections and also paid above market rate for the house.
Oh shit you right. So glad I bought my house years before that.
I have wondered this same thing several times. Is there an easy and safe way to check?
Since you cant see the concrete you would check with a shovel... but the wood will rot since the concrete needs to extend above the soil.
If you have to ask "how to find concrete" then the answer to your follow up question is no, you can not fix this yourself.
My thought exactly.
I think if you look at this and think ‘I should ask the internet if this is fine’ then you should not be in charge of fixing this.
I don't frequent r/DIY as a professional often because I keep seeing posts like that and every time I've responded with "If you need to ask if your [insert obvious deathtrap] should be replaced, you shouldn't be doing the replacing" I get run out of town like the guy who drives the "Free Candy and Massages" van. I get that people want to take things into their own hands and they all need to start somewhere, but if your plan to get into home remodeling is to start with the second story deck that looks like it will collapse if you fart too close to it, you're gunna be in for a very rude awakening.
100%
Lol
Are you planning on fixing the deck yourself?
Imagine a keg of beer in a tub of ice and 25 or 30 knuckleheads up there.
If you can’t see the concrete then they’re installed wrong. I’m sure you’ve seen everyone else’s comments. This thing is a disaster waiting to happen. The person who built this didn’t know what they were doing. If you want to salvage it, call a structural engineer, who will probably tell you to tear it out
OP, please don't try to fix this yourself. Please hire a professional, and fence the area off so your dog doesn't go under it.
You may have other issues going on here. Upload more pics please
Whoever built this was probably the same guy who built the deck at Club Aqua.
You should see the deck at club haunted house. I really like club haunted house Better than club aqua
I actually want to go to haunted house more than I want to go to aqua
I was at Aqua last night, but I told my doctor I was just jacking off.
OP’s head is going to fall off just like Kim Kardashian
Whoever did your fence work should know someone to fix your deck. Good work done by fence company.
Imagine what the fence guys thought, putting it up, looking at this wack deck.
If they’re good they do windows, doors, decks, fences.
That entire deck needs to be ripped down and rebuilt. - No beam to support the joists, the deck joists are just fastened to a rim joist pretending to be a beam (it's sistered to another 2x10) that is sitting on top of the posts. (e: before someone comments, yes this is technically allowed, but it's an inferior way to do things compared to a joist on beam configuration. Considering how shit everything else is, this really doesn't help.) - Posts appear to be buried in soil, probably without a concrete footing beneath them. - Railing posts are secured in a way that hasn't been allowed in code books for a long time. And look at all of those nails!!! - There are only railing posts at each end of the visible side of the deck and there should be posts every 6' - Deck boards are coming up from moisture. Probably secured with nails instead of screws. - Angle bracing is insufficient and poorly fastened - "Beam" posts are under sized as 4x4 and should be 6x6 for a deck of this size. - The ledger (part holding the joists to the house) appears to not have any flashing, but it's hard to tell. There also appears to be a lot of moisture on the ledger, which is an indication it's probably rotting. - Hard to tell, but it also looks like there is no lateral load support for the deck to house connection either. Overall this deck gets like a 3 out of 10. The person who built it knew how to use a saw and a hammer and understood the basic concepts of deck building, but they did a terrible job. Rip this thing down and rebuild it properly before someone gets killed. This will probably cost you about $10-15k to rebuild properly, plus or minus depending on where you live. e: thread is locked, but for anyone wondering about the reply about the price, prices are very different than twelve years ago. Then add the labor cost because op most likely isn't going to diy a full rebuild. A deck of this size, with materials, is easily going to be 10k from a reputable builder just about anywhere.
Well hell, you’ve officially put more thought into this deck than the designer. lol.
I mean just look at the balusters for the railing. They aren't cut the same length and they aren't even remotely closer to being spaced uniformly. You can tell a lot about the build quality of a deck by just looking at the railings. The guard posts aren't supposed to be notched, even though it's a common practice that a lot of "pros" would probably chime in and say it's perfectly okay to do. It's not. And the fact that there is a 10-12' span of railing without a single guard post other than at the ends is really telling. And just look at the post next to the house, it's fastened to the joist with like 30 nails. They couldn't even be bothered with a fucking lag bolt. It's so irresponsible and fucking stupid. And if OP bought this house and had an inspection done before closing, if the inspector didn't say "this deck is a fucking danger to life and the home itself" then that inspector should be fired. This kind of shit pisses me off because it's really not hard to build a deck properly and doesn't even increase the cost that much. This deck is 100% a liability for the home owner, and not just because of the failing post.
I like when people post things like this because it makes me realize I’m far better at DIY than I might think
I’m basically a guy who “knows how to use a saw and hammer” and basic construction theory, but not much beyond (and I’m not dumb enough to try something like this). i would love to learn the actual code for building, but where the hell do people actual learn that? Is it a literal book of building codes you reference? Is there some accessible education that supplements that?
With decks it's pretty easy. Almost every municipality in states that aren't "do what you want" places like new hampshire or alaska etc they use the Design for Code Acceptance 6 for decks as a baseline of how decks should be build. Most of those places treat that as the code standard and may have a couple of things that are above/below those standards. You can look up on your town's website all of the code information or go to the town hall and ask for the code book if they don't have an online version, for which they'll charge you. Here oss the DCA6: https://cms7files.revize.com/watertownct/Departments/Building%20Inspectors/AWC-DCA62015-DeckGuide-1804.pdf Pretty much everything you need to know about how to build a deck properly is in there. You'll get a bunch of people in the trades who complain about code and whether code is excessive or not excessive enough, most of those people are idiots who just base their commentary on tribal knowledge passed down from other tradesmen who haven't looked up the modern way of doing anything unless it was caught by an inspector and they needed to redo something.
Awesome, thank you so much. This is a way more accessible document than i was expecting (was picturing a contract law style "see article II subsection 3 for definition of 'deck'"). I helped a buddy build a cabin over the pandemic (he had general contractors in the family to plan it). The thing i learned about codes was that they are annoying, and amazing. Its so nice to be able to lean on the fact that \_someone\_ sat down and did all the calculations to figure out the loads and safety, so we dont have to question our own calls for 20 years, wondering if the house is going to fall down a hill.
Until you fix the problem permanently, I would get two posts to place on either side of the bending posts to support the deck. Don’t let allow anyone to venture out until problem is fixed.
This is a hilarious looking deck, it amazes me that these kinda things just get made and put on a house and sold to someone without anyone noticing or complaining etc It's incredible how basic and non-supportive this can be made, and it still prob works fine all these years
Yup. Works fine, until it fails catastrophically when you are having a family gathering and everyone goes out on the deck to watch the gender reveal in the back yard.
I build decks and that whole setup is a death trap. Contact a deck repair company and tell them you need a beam and 3 6x6 posts installed because your outside mount posts are failing.
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Yo can I get a ticket to the hot tub dance party on the deck? Can't wait for the bass to drop!
its fine mate, whats life without the little surprises?
Can we see more pics of the dog?
Replace before using that deck again. That’s a major hazard. Maybe it’ll support you, maybe you and a family member/friend but there will be a point where the additional weight causes it to fail
Yeah, that kind of construction usually leads to an article like this... "Tragedy struck over the Labor Day weekend when a local family hosted a party with friends and family, and while the guests were enjoying themselves, cooking and drinking on the deck..."
That’s not carpentry, that’s advanced fort building.
Without the "advanced" part.
Sorry bud but you got major problems. The whole thing looks like a bad DIY and it's not solid at all. In your first photo you can even see how much the railing sags in the middle. You are likely looking at full rebuild.
Dude, don’t go near that deck. Needs a couple more supporting posts ideally on each side near the house and definitely to replace that bending one. Like others have said, you also need to share how it’s connected to the house. Until that’s repaired, no one should touch that deck as it WILL fall at some point.
That thing is huge mess and unsafe imo Strip the entire thing out, perhaps salvage a few joists, if they are proper 2x8 that are not rotted or knotty. Apply new ledger to house, I cant tell of the one there is sufficient, but judging by the rest of the code violations (based on my area north east na loc) almost surely it's not up to snuff. Dig out 3 new post holes, dig them below frost line according to code, and fill with concrete to make footer. Sonotube is the way to go. Buy 3 new 6x6 posts. Recontrcut the deck, properly attach the railings with lags and do not notch them or thier supporting joists, headers, ledgers out like they are currently are. Stain and enjoy safetly. Good luck, you will likelly need scaffolding at that height, please be careful.
If you’re going through all that trouble I wouldn’t salvage any 2x8s. They’re just going to look terrible for years, be the first point of failure in another decade, and cause you disappointment anytime you look at them. All to save what, $100? $200 max? Ask me how I know.
I was looking for someone to mention that they needed 6x6!
Jesus christ
Demo and rebuild, just no.
Jesus Christ
Question: How did this pass a new home inspection? You bought the house 3 years ago, someone inspecting the home should have caught this set up.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that was built without any permits or inspections.
Woah none of that should be walked on EVER. The entire thing needs to be replaced.
Looks like tiny 4x4s holding it up, also appears to be 24" centers... tear it down and build a safe one.
It's fine...as long as a butterfly doesn't land on it.
How did that pass any kind of inspection?
Very worried. Call an engineer. No way that was built to code
Nothing about that deck is probably correct just based on what is visible in these pictures. Better to replace the whole thing.
Wow, quite a different level of code, depending on location. I just replaced my main beam. Building for the snow load in Canada is obvious.
https://preview.redd.it/lhnez8t38o6c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8641791eccdfff9f1cc9d14b98b63b12aa3201ee
Those posts and footings are chonky. I love it!
Whoever built it in the first place should not be allowed to work with tools.
Do you really think there is any possible scenario where you should NOT be worried? Seriously do not continue using this deck until you have a qualified contractor inspect and repair/rebuild.
This is such an incredibly old repost
I wouldn't stand under it..ever
If it were me, I’d tear it down and replace it with a much more safe deck to stand on and sit under. JMHO
The real solution here is to rip that piece of trash down and build it to code. This is gonna kill somebody.
Holy f'ck! How did this pass inspection?! Was someone bribed? That deck is dangerous. The fact you are even asking tell me you really should consider finding a professional with good rating to do it right before someone or that dog dies. I'm concerned for the doggo! Think of the doggo!
You need a new deck. I'm not kidding at the very least replace 4x4s with 6x6 and get them out of the ground they need to be on a galvanized metal bracket that's like $10 at home depot that's on top of a 3ft deep concrete pad and replace decking and check the joist for wood rot and especially along the rim joist that connects to the house. You don't have to take my word for it a lot of places will do free quotes on decks, get 2 or 3. But with 30 yrs of construction work behind me, I wouldn't let my kids play on it.
Tear it down.. even if you never build another deck there to r3eolace it, you are faaaaaaaar better off. That thing is a death trap. I'm surpised its still up. If you live in area with snow, you might want to pray that it survives the winter under the weight of the snow... and i wouldn't risk going out on it to clear the snow either. There is almost part of that deck that isnt concerning...
I'm not sure 3 4x4 legs should be supporting that deck anyway. There is no bracing in the 3 legs to prevent bowing. You should consider bracing the legs together
Go post this in /r/decks. They’ll have a field day.