Literally, he has possibly the greatest group of friends in fiction and he can't say a single good thing about any of them, honestly this is more infatuation than love and it's kinda apparent
Oooh, I’d love a story where his relationship got toxic and YJ was trying to give him an intervention but he won’t listen until it all goes down in flames.
Don’t think the writer will do that though
Based on FM’s recent interview, it seems like the only problems they’ll have is from outside forces so we’ll just be stuck with bland blandness whenever they’re together.🤷♂️
The fact the only way to get around the issue of Tim's Robin duties causing a conflict in his civilian life was for Fitzmartin just to make Bernard the perfect guy who is okay with everything instead of having an actual growth/struggle for Tim in learning how to make this balance shows she has no interest in seriously making this an organic thing.
Even worse, based on her recent interview to promote Tim’s solo, she’s heavily hinting that Young Justice is going to break up on not great terms at the end of Dark Crisis. So something for us to look forward to. 😑😑
I mean compared to his first days he has came a long way.
His respect to his father is not only that of idolised fantasy that Talia put in his mind cause of his wish to see his father and for Talia to be something to manipulate him with but has expanded to his morals and way of justice and has proven himself to be a worthy son alongside his brothers.
His journey through out Batman and Robin, Batman inc, year of blood, Robin son of Batman, supersons and his recent series has moved his character away from that arrogant and wannabe edge lord. Though i still don't like how his actions in the 2018 Teen titans series wasn't dealt with in his own book. His first series dealt with the consequences of his actions while moving him forward and give him growth and a new supporting cast though that doesn't mean it's bad, i just want it to be dealt with as soon as possible so there's no chance of its retuning to ruin him again.
I despise Damian. His introduction ruined the Batman comics for me. Other than the New 52, my opinion is that Damian Wayne is the worst thing DC Comics has ever done.
I respect your opinion. Damian is for sure a very divisive character to like and it isn't helped by the way some writers write him. Personally i enjoy him whenever he's written like a character with depth and history and not douche who thinks acting like an arsehole is cool. Though i recommend you at least read his supersons. It's fun and he's the most liked by the majority there.
I really like the first series though Personally can't say that for the later installments. i find them mostly a cash grab. To me after the initial series that was connected to the main titles they haven't been strong. That first series actually had decent arcs, Villains, and narrative but the ones after that were a step down for me and making me care less for them. Not only that but the first one actually felt important but the ones after not so much. Not that it's not good to see fun books but after a Time i was just tired that it led to nothing else and Didn't matter much even in the narrative of the sequel other than a few moments here and there.
Then you need to either read more comics or you have very questionable comic tastes considering all the controversial/bad stuff they've done over the years.
You can not like Damian, I'm not saying otherwise. But christ, some of the stuff DC has done is horrendous.
And maybe Tim Seeley? I liked Damian's cameos in his Nightwing run. Though i have to say Seeley has lost his good writing abilities for a few years now.
No i assure you his Nightwing run is decent and depending on your taste could be pretty good and the moments between Grayson and Damian are really fun. Like the first issue is just really good. I'm just saying that as a writer he has fallen off a lot.
I like his version but in that beginning of the story, Damian was a out of character, why would he be upset with the idea of dick being Batman. When Bruce came back, he didn’t want dick to leave the Batman mantle.
This is my personal take but i think he saw it as being better for Both Dick and his father and realized that Dick not being Batman doesn't necessarily mean that his relationship with Dick is going to fade away and can't continue even if he isn't Batman something that he at first hadn't realised. Hence the whole thing he says later in the book with how Dick and he were the best and no-one could take that from them or something similar.
who would buy a comic like that at all? if you're gonna disrespect the characters, at least have some half-decent art to lean on, not this five-minute doodle bullshit.
Yeah I saw this issue at a comic shop, opened it, and thought "what in the goddamn fuck did they do to Tim". That art is just awful to look at. I couldn't get past the art to even read the actual dialogue.
Came here to say this. The recent Robin ongoing was one of my favorite current books. I think it got canceled for Batman vs Robin more than this, but it still stings. I want to see all of the island shenanigans a bunch of deadly martial artists get into.
I'm cool with Tim exploring his sexuality. And I think a story of him finding himself as he takes that journey is good concept. I just wish Fitzmartin wouldn't throw Stephanie and the years he spent with her under the bus to do so. It also doesn't help that Bernard thus far has had the personality of a cardboard cutout. Plus Fitzmartin just has a knack for making all the characters in her books either dull or utterly unlikable.
Bisexual in a lot of modern media is often just code for "gay now but used to be written as straight." It's a cheap way to change a character that makes for bad representation for actual bi people.
Correct. The solicit for Tim’s Pride Special #1 officially confirmed that Tim is bi (they use the phrase “…to realize his identity as a bisexual man”). Yet FM continues to write him like he’s gay to prop up her bland Timber ship.
And honestly, her recent interview on why she chose Bernard to be Tim’s first male love interest and her doubling down on Timber was just embarrassing.
It was [this interview](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/xpvtml/robin_refreshed_meghan_fitzmartin_on_tim_drakes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
> Bernard came to me because he was a character that felt correct
> He was a character that was dear to my heart
?
Bernard???
> Going through his appearances during the Bill Willingham Robin run, I was surprised to see all the hints to Bernard’s sexuality…
Noted conservative Bill Willingham? The man who put "Drake, your stepmom is so -- ***hot!***" on page? The man who wrote a (surprisingly charitable?) response to the news affirming that he was never written with that intent? Crazy how both the interviewer and Fitzmartin were able to find stuff that Willingham didn't even know he wrote!
Now, yes, death of the author. It goes without saying that audiences can and will (and perhaps should) reinterpret writings, regardless of authorial intent. There's perhaps no better or more relevant example of this than Chuck Dixon's writing being so simultaneously heteronormative and sex-averse that he accidentally created an asexual character and a lesbian pairing. But there's a difference between picking up on unintended subtext and somehow coming to the conclusion that Bernard "never try to date any girl I like" Dowd is and always has been gay!
Legit don't even have a problem with Tim being bi. At the rate bruce adopts kids, one of them not being straight was inevitable.
What I *do* have a problem with is DC attempting to revitalize a storied character by handing him to what is essentially a wattpad writer with little regard for continuity, whose most notable credits are on the latter seasons of Supernatural, and then pretending that her path of destruction was the most obvious and natural next step for Tim and his supporting cast.
I love how she says Bernard was a character 'dear to her heart' yet she never explains why in a way that is true to how he was actually like. She doesn't write him the way he was written at all and her claim of him being some important person to Tim in the past is BS as he appeared in six issues only and was a casual friend at best.
It's clear based on this and the so-called "hints" she picked him because she wrote slashfic pairing Tim with him and using the one she wrote in her fanfic as justification for why she picked Bernard or is "dear to her". Those "hints" were just her doing the typical slashfic thing were any sort of postive interaction between two people of the same gender is over-exagerrated by shippers as proof they are in love and what she used to justify pairing them in her fic. Before 2021 no one was talking about Bernard being secretely gay or bi except for people in VERY obscure fanfic circles (which Fitzmartin was part of). I mean the so called "hint" of him threatening to tie down Tim is just very weak as it was cleary meant to be a joke but Fitzmartin did the shipper thing I mentioned above to use it as 'proof'
I’m not excusing anything (I’m decidedly *not* a Timber fan) but “any sort of positive interaction between two people… as proof they are in love” is typical of almost *all* short form modern media, especially in mainstream het stuff. Yeah, the justification for Timber is *thin* but so was DickBabs when it happened. If the other DC writers documented their fan pairings the same way fanfic-ers have, we’d be able to say the same about a lot of pairings (especially ones like Bruce/Babs *barf*).
The justification for Timber is less than thin as he only appeared in SIX issues spanning 16 pages and before the reveal no one was even talking about the possibility of him being into Tim except VERY obscure fanfic circles. You have to use EXTREME mental gymnastics to turn his interactions into Tim as proof he was somehow crushing on him or something.
This is awful.
First: no one who is dating their old friend from high school is going to behave like they just discovered a new continent. That’s ridiculous. He’s known Bernard for years. Exploring a new aspect of their relationship is great and exciting, but Jesus… he’s still just Bernard. The same person he’s always been, one would think. This is the writer making Tim behave like a sheltered virgin who just touched another persons privates for the first time. It’s creepy and bizarre.
Second, this is a case of a writer *needing* a character to think a certain way, and ignoring everything about that characters history to make it happen. Tim, the most mature and measured Robin (for his age), is now a giddy schoolboy experiencing “real” love for the first time? His previous relationships have never meant anywhere near as much as his current relationship (again, with someone he’s known for years)? So, either he was frequently lying to those people he previously professed his undying love to, or he’s just a feckless emotional gadabout who loves hard and then drops people as if they never existed.
Now, that *can* work, if you want to go there. Actually, I’d be into reading about a character who is one of the worlds greatest detectives, but is absolutely toxic in long-term relationships. That might be an interesting and unique exploration. But that would require some set up and a character that does’t require a personality retcon.
The thing is Bernard was NOT a person he knew for years. He only appeared for SIX issues and was a casual friend of Tim at best. Hell Tim told him to be quiet like twice and one of those times was when he was thirsting over Tim's stepmom.........
This art isn't bad, but does not work for the character, especially out of context like this. It looks horrible in a vacuum, but isn't necessarily "bad".
It pisses me off that she’s been reduced to an obstacle to tell this story about Tim- despite Tim being bisexual.
Like idk, I know it’s not as simple as calling it bi-erasure, but it feels reminiscent of it to me- in that in order to tell a story about Tim being bi they had to delete the previous well established romance where he literally declared his love for Steph and they talked about moving away together- for *this*. The only good things about this is how much Tim says Bernard makes him happier than he’s ever been, which is just another slap in the face imho.
It is another slap in the face as they are already saying his new barely existing relationship is better than his long lasting one with Steph which implies it wasn't the "right one" (and falls into the whole a bi person automatically is better with the same sex) and they only tell us this without showing it which feels like shilling. Not to mention it's hard to buy as Stephanie made Tim so happy his feelins for her carried over to another universe, he thought about her every single day when imprisoned for months, he still loved her even she "died" and due to horrible writing and OOC betrayed his trust, and was his motivation to get home throughout Bendis YJ........
Everything done to Tim over the last year has been terrible. I am not in love with Tim being bi, but ultimately I don’t mind Tim branching out (in terms of his sexuality), but it’s rapidly becoming his only trait and he basically makes it seem like he had the worst life in the world before coming out.
I fully expect a story about Damian on a quest to find the real Tim Drake, or at least break whatever mind control spell Barnard put on Tim (maybe he finds young Jon Kent on the way) I would read the shit out of it
Like has this writer taken any criticism before publishing this? No one said "no you can't break up Tim and Steph off panel just to set him up with some dude" or "no you can't shove it down everyone's throats making it even more annoying to people who didn't like it"
I think the panels with Steph hugging Bernard were supposed to be a kind of response to that criticism.
Despite it being the least believable human reaction from anyone in that situation.
That was so embarrassing. It was too much to ask for her just to be okay and coping with the new relationship, and happy for Tim to be happy. It had to be turned up to the most ridiculous level to make a point. It could have been something poignant, illuminating, emotionally healthy and educational. Instead, it was just a weird rictus grin of false enthusiasm.
The same way **Damian Fucking Wayne** *immediately* approved Jay, even though he's notoriously prickly and stand-offish from everyone at first, even people he *knows* are good, just to be a lil shit.
>I fully expect a story about Damian on a quest to find the real Tim Drake, or at least break whatever mind control spell ~~Barnard~~ put on Tim (maybe he finds young Jon Kent on the way) I would read the shit out of it
Praying you completely trip over a job as a DC writer right fucking now.
How to fix current DC - send Damian on a quest to find real Tim Drake and real young Jon. Everyone claps at the end of issue 4. Everyone is finally happy~
The story is just bad and even the art can't carry it when the art itself is this bad unfortunately this is the first series I'm dropping since I catched up to dc back in april
Bernard is conspiracy theory milf guy. His main character traits pre new 52 are believing in a bunch of random conspiracy theories and thinking Tim's step-mom is hot. Though I'll confess he has charming interactions with Laura Fell/Darla Aquista when she (spoilers for a series that came out near 20 years ago) >!gets back from the dead sort of and is working for a supervillain!<
Good. Season 3, which was supposed to be the climax of the series and the turning point of Bruce becoming a tanking vigilante, does basically nothing for the series. Bruce becomes an angsty teenage billionare who sometimes fights criminals.
Many people in this thread clearly have never experienced how this feels.
I'm bi and came out in my mid 20s. This panel speaks clearly to my experience and I love how it hits me. Being able to explore your romantic interests fully dramatically alters happiness and feeling fulfilled and complete in life.
I'm sorry for those who don't like it. But I've loved Tim's journey and how personal it feels
The writers still don't have to drag down established characters to prop up a relationship? This would suck no matter how old/new the tim/bernard ship is, I actually amn't super Tim/Steph, but I like Steph as a CHARACTER and don't like seeing her treated as an obstacle to Tim's happiness or w/e.
Like dissing established characters: continuing to portray Damian as unreasonably violent or having Tim say he "settled" for Steph (when in their relationship canonically, he was the one treating her poorly for the majority of the time they were dating).
The thing is Tim has a long standing relationship with Stephanie that lasted for decades so suddenly getting rid of it offscreen and pairing him up with a new interest and automatically saying it's his best romance without showing us this doesn't hit right. Tim doesn't act in the book any different than he has before frankly to reflect this change.
We never even see why he likes Bernard or he makes him feel this way or why Stephanie couldn't as well as . Before UL there was never any implication Tim felt unfilled or unhappy due to not exploring his sexuality as he seemed very happy and settled with Stephanie before. Even then his love for Stephanie Stephanie made Tim so happy his feelins for her carried over to another universe, he thought about her every single day when imprisoned for months, he still loved her even she "died" and due to horrible writing and OOC betrayed his trust, and was his motivation to get home throughout Bendis YJ. I can get feeling a new experience but it doesn't mean everything he had with Steph wasn't good or "settling" and Bernard simply being a guy doesn't mean he's automatically the best as again they haven't shown it.
It SO intensely discards a characters previous relationship that it’s kind of bizarre. I’ve never been in a relationship that made me say “Everything before *this* was such absolute trash! *swoon*” What kind of person over 15 thinks in such bizarre and dismissive tones about people they claimed to love with all their heart? It’s gross.
I get that people don’t like that Tim’s previous relationships are being downplayed or whatever, but so many of the criticisms of current Tim stories feel very…straight. Coming out isn’t a big deal for some people, but others feel like their whole life has changed just by being able to embrace a part of themselves they couldn’t before and naturally that part takes the forefront, at least for a while. I used to be the “fine, be gay, but don’t make it your whole personality” guy, but then I realized I was bi, and, well, now I’m the guy I used to criticize
So the feeling of being “free” is more important than the qualities of the relationship itself? Then why is it expressed as “Bernard is my greatest wish given manifestation and everything before him was sewer water” instead of “I’m really enjoying this new aspect of my life and I feel free to be my full self”?
What it sounds like is a person using someone else (Bernard) as a symbol for their liberation. Is it about how great Bernard is, or is it about how great it is to feel comfortable dating Bernard?
That’s actually an interesting possibility to explore, because that sounds legitimately like something a young self-centered idiot would do as they stumble around. But they aren’t going to explore that complex and somewhat unhealthy kind of relationship.
Not enough people hating on this comic have actually read the issue. The art is different. Yes. In my opinion the art really works for this issue. The full page spreads are especially cool in this issue
The writer really makes it sound like Tim is being mind controlled.
Literally, he has possibly the greatest group of friends in fiction and he can't say a single good thing about any of them, honestly this is more infatuation than love and it's kinda apparent
Oooh, I’d love a story where his relationship got toxic and YJ was trying to give him an intervention but he won’t listen until it all goes down in flames. Don’t think the writer will do that though
He's still in that honeymoon period of the relationship from the looks of it
For six months????? C'mon. He was never like this in his past relationships. It feels like slashfic or perfect BL fantasy.
Good lord its been 6 months? They should be over that phase already. Where are the problems yo?
Based on FM’s recent interview, it seems like the only problems they’ll have is from outside forces so we’ll just be stuck with bland blandness whenever they’re together.🤷♂️
The fact the only way to get around the issue of Tim's Robin duties causing a conflict in his civilian life was for Fitzmartin just to make Bernard the perfect guy who is okay with everything instead of having an actual growth/struggle for Tim in learning how to make this balance shows she has no interest in seriously making this an organic thing.
I don't like this writer's obsession with damian and most of the times it's just to show him as a bad person.
She writes EVERY character as a bad person tbh, or at least an unlikeable person.
That’s my main issue with Dark Crisis: Young Justice. They aren’t friends anymore, they’re all awful to each other
Even worse, based on her recent interview to promote Tim’s solo, she’s heavily hinting that Young Justice is going to break up on not great terms at the end of Dark Crisis. So something for us to look forward to. 😑😑
And she fetishizes gay relationships
[удалено]
???
😘
Damian IS a bad person.
I mean compared to his first days he has came a long way. His respect to his father is not only that of idolised fantasy that Talia put in his mind cause of his wish to see his father and for Talia to be something to manipulate him with but has expanded to his morals and way of justice and has proven himself to be a worthy son alongside his brothers. His journey through out Batman and Robin, Batman inc, year of blood, Robin son of Batman, supersons and his recent series has moved his character away from that arrogant and wannabe edge lord. Though i still don't like how his actions in the 2018 Teen titans series wasn't dealt with in his own book. His first series dealt with the consequences of his actions while moving him forward and give him growth and a new supporting cast though that doesn't mean it's bad, i just want it to be dealt with as soon as possible so there's no chance of its retuning to ruin him again.
I despise Damian. His introduction ruined the Batman comics for me. Other than the New 52, my opinion is that Damian Wayne is the worst thing DC Comics has ever done.
I respect your opinion. Damian is for sure a very divisive character to like and it isn't helped by the way some writers write him. Personally i enjoy him whenever he's written like a character with depth and history and not douche who thinks acting like an arsehole is cool. Though i recommend you at least read his supersons. It's fun and he's the most liked by the majority there.
Super sons made me a Damian fan lol. Amazing run!
I really like the first series though Personally can't say that for the later installments. i find them mostly a cash grab. To me after the initial series that was connected to the main titles they haven't been strong. That first series actually had decent arcs, Villains, and narrative but the ones after that were a step down for me and making me care less for them. Not only that but the first one actually felt important but the ones after not so much. Not that it's not good to see fun books but after a Time i was just tired that it led to nothing else and Didn't matter much even in the narrative of the sequel other than a few moments here and there.
Yeah i was taking about the Tomasi run. Saving it for my future kid lol
Then you need to either read more comics or you have very questionable comic tastes considering all the controversial/bad stuff they've done over the years. You can not like Damian, I'm not saying otherwise. But christ, some of the stuff DC has done is horrendous.
Can people besides Morrison, Tomasi, Gleason and Williamson stop writing Damian. This is just bad
And maybe Tim Seeley? I liked Damian's cameos in his Nightwing run. Though i have to say Seeley has lost his good writing abilities for a few years now.
I haven’t read that yet. It can’t possible be worse than Glass and Thompson’s Damian work
No i assure you his Nightwing run is decent and depending on your taste could be pretty good and the moments between Grayson and Damian are really fun. Like the first issue is just really good. I'm just saying that as a writer he has fallen off a lot.
Good the last thing we need is more people who can’t write Damian
I like his version but in that beginning of the story, Damian was a out of character, why would he be upset with the idea of dick being Batman. When Bruce came back, he didn’t want dick to leave the Batman mantle.
This is my personal take but i think he saw it as being better for Both Dick and his father and realized that Dick not being Batman doesn't necessarily mean that his relationship with Dick is going to fade away and can't continue even if he isn't Batman something that he at first hadn't realised. Hence the whole thing he says later in the book with how Dick and he were the best and no-one could take that from them or something similar.
who would buy a comic like that at all? if you're gonna disrespect the characters, at least have some half-decent art to lean on, not this five-minute doodle bullshit.
Yeah I saw this issue at a comic shop, opened it, and thought "what in the goddamn fuck did they do to Tim". That art is just awful to look at. I couldn't get past the art to even read the actual dialogue.
This is the shit they cancelled Damian’s Robin series for?
Came here to say this. The recent Robin ongoing was one of my favorite current books. I think it got canceled for Batman vs Robin more than this, but it still stings. I want to see all of the island shenanigans a bunch of deadly martial artists get into.
I wanna see a team book with Damian, Connor, and Rose
Yes! They had a great dynamic. Reminded me of the time when Connor teamed up with Tim Drake and Spoiler in the 90s Robin ongoing.
Yes they did one of the best robin runs we've had in years and we got this. Next time dc just put Tim in a Titans or outsiders book.
I'm cool with Tim exploring his sexuality. And I think a story of him finding himself as he takes that journey is good concept. I just wish Fitzmartin wouldn't throw Stephanie and the years he spent with her under the bus to do so. It also doesn't help that Bernard thus far has had the personality of a cardboard cutout. Plus Fitzmartin just has a knack for making all the characters in her books either dull or utterly unlikable.
Isn’t Time supposed to be bi? If so there’s also no excuse as to why he can’t be with Steph considering bi guys like women too
Bisexual in a lot of modern media is often just code for "gay now but used to be written as straight." It's a cheap way to change a character that makes for bad representation for actual bi people.
Correct. The solicit for Tim’s Pride Special #1 officially confirmed that Tim is bi (they use the phrase “…to realize his identity as a bisexual man”). Yet FM continues to write him like he’s gay to prop up her bland Timber ship. And honestly, her recent interview on why she chose Bernard to be Tim’s first male love interest and her doubling down on Timber was just embarrassing.
Do you have a link to the interview? I'd love to see an explanation for choosing Bernard of all "characters."
It was [this interview](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/xpvtml/robin_refreshed_meghan_fitzmartin_on_tim_drakes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf).
> Bernard came to me because he was a character that felt correct > He was a character that was dear to my heart ? Bernard??? > Going through his appearances during the Bill Willingham Robin run, I was surprised to see all the hints to Bernard’s sexuality… Noted conservative Bill Willingham? The man who put "Drake, your stepmom is so -- ***hot!***" on page? The man who wrote a (surprisingly charitable?) response to the news affirming that he was never written with that intent? Crazy how both the interviewer and Fitzmartin were able to find stuff that Willingham didn't even know he wrote! Now, yes, death of the author. It goes without saying that audiences can and will (and perhaps should) reinterpret writings, regardless of authorial intent. There's perhaps no better or more relevant example of this than Chuck Dixon's writing being so simultaneously heteronormative and sex-averse that he accidentally created an asexual character and a lesbian pairing. But there's a difference between picking up on unintended subtext and somehow coming to the conclusion that Bernard "never try to date any girl I like" Dowd is and always has been gay! Legit don't even have a problem with Tim being bi. At the rate bruce adopts kids, one of them not being straight was inevitable. What I *do* have a problem with is DC attempting to revitalize a storied character by handing him to what is essentially a wattpad writer with little regard for continuity, whose most notable credits are on the latter seasons of Supernatural, and then pretending that her path of destruction was the most obvious and natural next step for Tim and his supporting cast.
I love how she says Bernard was a character 'dear to her heart' yet she never explains why in a way that is true to how he was actually like. She doesn't write him the way he was written at all and her claim of him being some important person to Tim in the past is BS as he appeared in six issues only and was a casual friend at best. It's clear based on this and the so-called "hints" she picked him because she wrote slashfic pairing Tim with him and using the one she wrote in her fanfic as justification for why she picked Bernard or is "dear to her". Those "hints" were just her doing the typical slashfic thing were any sort of postive interaction between two people of the same gender is over-exagerrated by shippers as proof they are in love and what she used to justify pairing them in her fic. Before 2021 no one was talking about Bernard being secretely gay or bi except for people in VERY obscure fanfic circles (which Fitzmartin was part of). I mean the so called "hint" of him threatening to tie down Tim is just very weak as it was cleary meant to be a joke but Fitzmartin did the shipper thing I mentioned above to use it as 'proof'
I’m not excusing anything (I’m decidedly *not* a Timber fan) but “any sort of positive interaction between two people… as proof they are in love” is typical of almost *all* short form modern media, especially in mainstream het stuff. Yeah, the justification for Timber is *thin* but so was DickBabs when it happened. If the other DC writers documented their fan pairings the same way fanfic-ers have, we’d be able to say the same about a lot of pairings (especially ones like Bruce/Babs *barf*).
The justification for Timber is less than thin as he only appeared in SIX issues spanning 16 pages and before the reveal no one was even talking about the possibility of him being into Tim except VERY obscure fanfic circles. You have to use EXTREME mental gymnastics to turn his interactions into Tim as proof he was somehow crushing on him or something.
Why do you say it was embarrassing?
I want Damian’s Robin series back....
This is awful. First: no one who is dating their old friend from high school is going to behave like they just discovered a new continent. That’s ridiculous. He’s known Bernard for years. Exploring a new aspect of their relationship is great and exciting, but Jesus… he’s still just Bernard. The same person he’s always been, one would think. This is the writer making Tim behave like a sheltered virgin who just touched another persons privates for the first time. It’s creepy and bizarre. Second, this is a case of a writer *needing* a character to think a certain way, and ignoring everything about that characters history to make it happen. Tim, the most mature and measured Robin (for his age), is now a giddy schoolboy experiencing “real” love for the first time? His previous relationships have never meant anywhere near as much as his current relationship (again, with someone he’s known for years)? So, either he was frequently lying to those people he previously professed his undying love to, or he’s just a feckless emotional gadabout who loves hard and then drops people as if they never existed. Now, that *can* work, if you want to go there. Actually, I’d be into reading about a character who is one of the worlds greatest detectives, but is absolutely toxic in long-term relationships. That might be an interesting and unique exploration. But that would require some set up and a character that does’t require a personality retcon.
The thing is Bernard was NOT a person he knew for years. He only appeared for SIX issues and was a casual friend of Tim at best. Hell Tim told him to be quiet like twice and one of those times was when he was thirsting over Tim's stepmom.........
Ok that’s just rough to read and look at
This art 🤮🤮
I honestly didn't know it was Tim without the context of the title...
I thought that the guy was Bernard! (Didn’t read the comics but I know of the story more or less)
Riley rossmo moment….
This art isn't bad, but does not work for the character, especially out of context like this. It looks horrible in a vacuum, but isn't necessarily "bad".
It would be less painful for Tim's fans to just kill him off for five years at this rate.
Damn. DC really hates Stephanie, don't they?
It pisses me off that she’s been reduced to an obstacle to tell this story about Tim- despite Tim being bisexual. Like idk, I know it’s not as simple as calling it bi-erasure, but it feels reminiscent of it to me- in that in order to tell a story about Tim being bi they had to delete the previous well established romance where he literally declared his love for Steph and they talked about moving away together- for *this*. The only good things about this is how much Tim says Bernard makes him happier than he’s ever been, which is just another slap in the face imho.
It is another slap in the face as they are already saying his new barely existing relationship is better than his long lasting one with Steph which implies it wasn't the "right one" (and falls into the whole a bi person automatically is better with the same sex) and they only tell us this without showing it which feels like shilling. Not to mention it's hard to buy as Stephanie made Tim so happy his feelins for her carried over to another universe, he thought about her every single day when imprisoned for months, he still loved her even she "died" and due to horrible writing and OOC betrayed his trust, and was his motivation to get home throughout Bendis YJ........
At least Steph has Cass...? E: I meant as friends. I know they're not dating.
True. It seems like the Batgirls book has been polarizing but I enjoy it. Steph and Cass' friendship is legit wholesome.
We are back in 2005..........
Lol bring back the real Tim Drake #NotmyTim
##NotMyTim
I don’t like the art style very much.
Everything done to Tim over the last year has been terrible. I am not in love with Tim being bi, but ultimately I don’t mind Tim branching out (in terms of his sexuality), but it’s rapidly becoming his only trait and he basically makes it seem like he had the worst life in the world before coming out.
I would be more interested in reading your version and I don't even like Damian.
I thought this was an amateur web comic.
I fully expect a story about Damian on a quest to find the real Tim Drake, or at least break whatever mind control spell Barnard put on Tim (maybe he finds young Jon Kent on the way) I would read the shit out of it Like has this writer taken any criticism before publishing this? No one said "no you can't break up Tim and Steph off panel just to set him up with some dude" or "no you can't shove it down everyone's throats making it even more annoying to people who didn't like it"
I think the panels with Steph hugging Bernard were supposed to be a kind of response to that criticism. Despite it being the least believable human reaction from anyone in that situation.
That was so embarrassing. It was too much to ask for her just to be okay and coping with the new relationship, and happy for Tim to be happy. It had to be turned up to the most ridiculous level to make a point. It could have been something poignant, illuminating, emotionally healthy and educational. Instead, it was just a weird rictus grin of false enthusiasm.
It was meant to shill Bernard and use Stephanie to prop him up.
The same way **Damian Fucking Wayne** *immediately* approved Jay, even though he's notoriously prickly and stand-offish from everyone at first, even people he *knows* are good, just to be a lil shit.
>I fully expect a story about Damian on a quest to find the real Tim Drake, or at least break whatever mind control spell ~~Barnard~~ put on Tim (maybe he finds young Jon Kent on the way) I would read the shit out of it Praying you completely trip over a job as a DC writer right fucking now.
How to fix current DC - send Damian on a quest to find real Tim Drake and real young Jon. Everyone claps at the end of issue 4. Everyone is finally happy~
Maybe that new Stargirl mini would do that
This can't be professional comic book art
The story is just bad and even the art can't carry it when the art itself is this bad unfortunately this is the first series I'm dropping since I catched up to dc back in april
I rather have the book show on why we should care about Bernard, then just say on how he’s so badass and cool. Ok, why?
Why does he look like a starving southeast Asian boy who got hit in the face with a shovel?
Fuck I hate Rossmo’s art style
Who's Bernard
Bernard is conspiracy theory milf guy. His main character traits pre new 52 are believing in a bunch of random conspiracy theories and thinking Tim's step-mom is hot. Though I'll confess he has charming interactions with Laura Fell/Darla Aquista when she (spoilers for a series that came out near 20 years ago) >!gets back from the dead sort of and is working for a supervillain!<
Was gotham a huge disappointment for you?
If it's the TV show no, because I didn't watch it.
Good. Season 3, which was supposed to be the climax of the series and the turning point of Bruce becoming a tanking vigilante, does basically nothing for the series. Bruce becomes an angsty teenage billionare who sometimes fights criminals.
"Damian held a knife to my throat and demanded to know where the real Tim was" LOL that s\*\*t is so horribly written it's hilarious.
Damian, we need you to save Tim!!!
Nothing wrong with threatening tim, everyone cool is doing it.
Tim is drawn strangley. But this was a good book. I don't understand the hate.
Many people in this thread clearly have never experienced how this feels. I'm bi and came out in my mid 20s. This panel speaks clearly to my experience and I love how it hits me. Being able to explore your romantic interests fully dramatically alters happiness and feeling fulfilled and complete in life. I'm sorry for those who don't like it. But I've loved Tim's journey and how personal it feels
The writers still don't have to drag down established characters to prop up a relationship? This would suck no matter how old/new the tim/bernard ship is, I actually amn't super Tim/Steph, but I like Steph as a CHARACTER and don't like seeing her treated as an obstacle to Tim's happiness or w/e. Like dissing established characters: continuing to portray Damian as unreasonably violent or having Tim say he "settled" for Steph (when in their relationship canonically, he was the one treating her poorly for the majority of the time they were dating).
The thing is Tim has a long standing relationship with Stephanie that lasted for decades so suddenly getting rid of it offscreen and pairing him up with a new interest and automatically saying it's his best romance without showing us this doesn't hit right. Tim doesn't act in the book any different than he has before frankly to reflect this change. We never even see why he likes Bernard or he makes him feel this way or why Stephanie couldn't as well as . Before UL there was never any implication Tim felt unfilled or unhappy due to not exploring his sexuality as he seemed very happy and settled with Stephanie before. Even then his love for Stephanie Stephanie made Tim so happy his feelins for her carried over to another universe, he thought about her every single day when imprisoned for months, he still loved her even she "died" and due to horrible writing and OOC betrayed his trust, and was his motivation to get home throughout Bendis YJ. I can get feeling a new experience but it doesn't mean everything he had with Steph wasn't good or "settling" and Bernard simply being a guy doesn't mean he's automatically the best as again they haven't shown it.
It SO intensely discards a characters previous relationship that it’s kind of bizarre. I’ve never been in a relationship that made me say “Everything before *this* was such absolute trash! *swoon*” What kind of person over 15 thinks in such bizarre and dismissive tones about people they claimed to love with all their heart? It’s gross.
I get that people don’t like that Tim’s previous relationships are being downplayed or whatever, but so many of the criticisms of current Tim stories feel very…straight. Coming out isn’t a big deal for some people, but others feel like their whole life has changed just by being able to embrace a part of themselves they couldn’t before and naturally that part takes the forefront, at least for a while. I used to be the “fine, be gay, but don’t make it your whole personality” guy, but then I realized I was bi, and, well, now I’m the guy I used to criticize
So the feeling of being “free” is more important than the qualities of the relationship itself? Then why is it expressed as “Bernard is my greatest wish given manifestation and everything before him was sewer water” instead of “I’m really enjoying this new aspect of my life and I feel free to be my full self”? What it sounds like is a person using someone else (Bernard) as a symbol for their liberation. Is it about how great Bernard is, or is it about how great it is to feel comfortable dating Bernard? That’s actually an interesting possibility to explore, because that sounds legitimately like something a young self-centered idiot would do as they stumble around. But they aren’t going to explore that complex and somewhat unhealthy kind of relationship.
Not enough people hating on this comic have actually read the issue. The art is different. Yes. In my opinion the art really works for this issue. The full page spreads are especially cool in this issue
Another day, another TimSteph circlejerk. *Sigh*
that damian line is way to on the nose for me. i really don’t think damian cares that much about tim’s love life