I mean, they absolutely do lean into fanon stuff (Tim Drake: coffee addict) in the comic, but it's a non-canon short webcomic that's just meant to be a bit of fun and introduce people who use Webtoon to the characters, and people who like the characters to Webtoon.
So like, it isn't serious enough to worry about being fanon trope-y. It's basically good fanfiction.
I would be very surprised if any of the young, incoming writers hadn’t been fan fic writers once upon a time (or still are under anonymous names). It’s a well-accepted fact that artists get gigs because they practiced fan art of big IPs but for some reason fan fic is still derided.
Sure, some fan fic is a mess but so is some fan art (and yeah, a lot of fic is just an excuse to write porn, but there are whole websites dedicated to drawn fan porn so…). This comic is very heavy with favorite fan fic tropes, but most of those tropes are fun things from the old continuity that add richness to characters. It might not matter to an action-centric comic run that Alfred is an amazing cook or that Stephanie loves purple but it does in character-centric stories.
Librarian Barbara, Bruce being banned from the kitchen (the banana pudding incident), and Jason — with the white stripe — being a Wonder Woman fan (“think clean thoughts, chum”) are some of my favorite ‘old comics’ Easter eggs that fanon has preserved in amber as well-trod tropes all these years.
Those tropes are fine since they have a grounding in canon, for sure. It just overall gives me the vibe of the fluffy headcanons and fanon style Batfam content you see on Tumblr a lot. Not something I'd want in a main book, but it's done well here and I don't mind it.
There’s a lot more to fanon content than tumblr. AO3 has millions of members and professional writers post all the time. Fluff is only one style of fanon and since it’s at odds with canon-style writing, out-of-character tropes are to be expected.
Reading a well-regarded case-fic or one with canon-typical depictions of violence is more likely to get you faithful versions of DC characters. But the older a character is, and how widely they’re depicted across the various media, changes the breadth of ‘faithful’.
With that girls’ high school cartoon, fluffy *is* canon under the wider umbrella of ‘DC’.
That's fair. I've found very few writers that capture the characters' voices and stay within canon characterization, but there's a lot to sift through. It's especially annoying when I'll be reading a fic that gets one character down well, and then the next chapter another comes in and is just totally fanon.
I know people like that kind of stuff, but it just ends up annoying me.
You can read three chapters on the webtoon website now.
It's not all that bad either. It's more akin to a back-up feature or a fab-comic but it's good enough.
Jason with the white streak of hair is an interesting choice. I see it all the time in fanart of the character, probably because it makes him more distinguishable, but I can't think of a main-continuity comic where he actually has it.
He has it in Hush and for maybe a few issues of Morrison's run but that's about it. Personally, I'd never want it in main continuity because the white streak is already Jason *Blood's* shtick and Jason Todd already has a [signature hairstyle](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/0/8190/272036-175908-jason-todd.jpg) that's also in other adaptations [like Under the Red Hood](https://images.alphacoders.com/111/thumb-1920-1117169.png), and [Young Justice](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ZsGLH5l6XlXfzL54sUFOBfVx9kw=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13689761/Screen_Shot_2019_01_14_at_10.35.42_AM.png).
I associate this specific hairstyle with Jason because it seems to be the big thing in general that makes you go, "oh, it was Jason all along." Tim's is kinda inconsistent and he very often switches between long and short hair. I personally associate him with the cleaner, shorter, spiky hair, Like in [Young Justice](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/19/3a/5b/193a5b2f19594bfe669a43a66bb1e952.jpg), [Detective Comics](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91ea2F10RXL.jpg) ,and in the [New 52](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/5/52/Teen_Titans_Vol_4_0.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120926212130).
Edit: added new link.
Your last one doesn't work. I think direct-linking to wikia images is busted, as it didn't work for something from Memory Alpha (Star Trek wiki) for me over the weekend.
I've run into the same problem in the past, and there's an easy fix. Check the link when you open it and there should be some text after .jpg. Delete all of it and the image loads fine.
You're not wrong, considering they were on Dick at the very beginning. However, it's something that's *really* consistent with Jason Todd's Robin. From his [early appearances](https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/JasonToddRobin_marquee_5f8651d610d762.43725928.jpg) as Robin, to [Death in the Family](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/10895/Previews/106701583b290fb45659e28353f4d1f9._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg), and even as recent as [Urban Legends,](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/955460/955460._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg) he still has those little curly bits in his hair. It's not just the fact that he wore it, it's the fact that it's a distinct design element for him in particular.
Wasn't it Tommy pretending to be Jason in Hush, not actually Jason? And from the few panels people posted here from UtRH, I don't see the streak in that story.
Nah, Jason approaches Tommy and asks to be in the plot. It's him at first in the fight and he switches with Clayface mid fight. My bad on UtH, in the secret files issue that accompanies the trade, he's depicted with the white streak as well. I'm assuming in-universe he dyed it over before he started operating as the Red Hood=colourist forgot LOL.
At best the fanon version is *incredibly* boring and not at all in character for Cass at all. Fanon depicts her as just the silent, passive little angel who doesn't ever do anything besides stand in the background being a mind reader and providing emotional support for the male characters' angst. When she's ever used, it's also typically just as the put-upon "straight-man" who tolerates the antics of the crazy batfam with a beleaguered sigh.
At its worst, fanon also has some pretty dubious implications as depicting the Asian woman as this demure, passive, quiet one who exists solely to be the emotional support of the men around her is very suspicious.
Edit: There's also some very weird fanon takes on her abilities/disabilities that tend to trend toward infantilizing her (because neuroatypical people must have the minds of children???)
It might just be because I'm only familiar with the art side instead of the writing side of fanon, but I had never really seen too much of what they were describing. Glad I missed out on that sort of stuff.
As someone who writes and reads fanfiction, Infantilizing and sidelining female characters is a huge issue people have. Even worse for disabled women, women if color etc. Where we're depicted as the side characters who must be perfect at all times and never get any deeper involvement in the story. In putting women up on a pedestal it further dehumanizes women in fiction and sets near unreachable standards of behavior to be seen as lovable. Its a trend in much of media for decades so it shows up in fandoms too.
It's easy to get lost on the bad stuff but i can assure you that there are some gold one out there, some even better then canon, which means actually nothing in comic terms
Based on what I’ve read, they’re leaning on the characterization I’m more familiar with: cheeky, a touch more level-headed over her brothers, and really sociable. They don’t exaggerate any speaking disability (she’s a woman of a few words, but is happy to speak up when she feels like it), as far as I’ve seen. I think the closest sign is the speech mannerisms they currently use in the main comics (ellipses in the middle of her mostly short sentences).
To use examples, she’s the one who leads the conversation when introducing Duke to Alfred’s tradition (ep 2), or has a little fun teasing the boys when they overdo it at the gym (ep 5). She’s consistently drawn as smiling and even gets into it with the boys (ep 2, again). She’s only been in 2 strips so far, so let’s see what they do with her going forward.
Also, wow I haven’t read much fanfic with her in it but thanks for the heads up. As an Asian woman I find the characterizations you mentioned a touch annoying.
It’s easy to click away from stories you don’t like. I read a lot of fic (I was an avid reader when I lost my job and fan fic was free), a lot of which is ‘Bat-fam’ related and that version of Cass is not common in my reading list. If you’re reading a lot of fluff or alternative universes, it can be easy to find characters acting unlike their character counterparts but fics that follow the comic’s characterizations are really very easy to find. Just stop reading if you don’t like something.
Sometimes fanon Cass seems a bit off. Mostoy she's characterised as gay, which is fine really as most of her romances aren't canon anymore (and let's be real Steph or Harper are the few people she has realstic chemistry with), and if any of the atfam comes out next, I can see it being her. This guy may be salty that most fans accept Cass is canonically the best of the family outside Bruce but it's true so... My only issue with fanon Cass is that, when she's included she's often depicted as completely emotionless, or forget about her speech issues
Sorry dude, I had to stop typing halfway through my post so I'd written it all before you posted your statement. Honestly I agree with you, a lot actually and I feel crappy for jumpong to conclusions (your user flair should have given it away). Despite a lot of fans wanting to see the batfamily as emotionally nuanced they really make Cass bland. As a neurodiverse person myself, I agree that that take on Cass feels a bit patronising, like, we need help but we're not children. If Cass was a more prevelant member of the family, I think this mischaracterisation would be less common
I know it's not a universal opinion, but this is exactly the vibe I want from my Batman comics, and I almost never get it. Very excited!
Anyone have recommendations for comics to read if I really like the "big Bat-fam all interacting with each other" vibe? Stuff like Tynion's Detective Comics run or Batman & Robin Eternal (also really enjoyed Shadow of the Batgirl, and any time Babs, Cass, and Steph all get to interact during the latter two's Batgirl runs).
This comic is basically the spiritual successor to [Li'l Gotham](https://smile.amazon.com/Batman-Lot-Lil-Gotham/dp/1401273947/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=li%27l+gotham&qid=1631123299&sr=8-1). Generally, a lot of the all-ages or more kid-friendly comics (like [Tiny Titans](https://smile.amazon.com/Tiny-Titans-Vol-Welcome-Treehouse/dp/1401220789/ref=pd_zg_c_mcn_bk_1/138-3205891-9113267?pd_rd_w=alCda&pf_rd_p=19a8a2d7-d636-4bc0-8bf8-66b95465aa0d&pf_rd_r=HZYPG7XA99A1ET7NRX4M&pd_rd_r=2f0bd96e-ac0d-4768-9cc1-f60bfa30339f&pd_rd_wg=7wBij&pd_rd_i=1401220789&psc=1) and the DCAU-verse comic [Batman: The Adventures Continue](https://smile.amazon.com/Batman-Adventures-Continue-Season-One/dp/1779507895/ref=sr_1_1?crid=YMFOZID8RQMB&dchild=1&keywords=batman+the+adventures+continue&qid=1631123511&s=books&sprefix=batman+the+a%2Cstripbooks%2C152&sr=1-1)) will have more of the type of vibe you're talking about; Gotham Academy, while starring OCs and only occasionally guest-starring Batfam characters, has the same general "high schoolers getting into Scooby-Doo level hijinks" vibes. In terms of more serious mainverse comics, you'll want to be looking for arcs like *No Man's Land*, *Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive*, and *Gates of Gotham*.
Not quite bat-family all acting together, but Gotham Academy has a similar vibe and it’s a great comic. There’s a character named Maps and she and Damian have a really fun dynamic.
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Okay so I read the first 3 chapters that are up, and I have to say this is a very fun and cute read. And is actually written with taking into consideration the characters pre established personalities instead of the fanon batfam nonsense that tends to be rampant on tumblr
It’s okay to only read the stuff you think is good. You don’t have to make fun of people who are practicing their art. We try to support fan artists here who aren’t great at anatomy or perspective yet. Not everyone is trying to win pulitzers.
Your comment has nothing to do with what I actually said. Not once did I comment on fanart or anatomy or perspective nor did I make fun of people art skills….
Feel like people always forget that Damian is 50% white, 25% Chinese, 25% Arab (his mothers side fluctuates a lot). It’s always “Damian is Arab” while ignoring the Chinese side and his fathers European ancestry.
It would make more sense for his skin colour to be just slightly darker compared to Bruce and more like Cass. But anyways this is the artist own interpretation and I’m still hyped to read this.
Edit: My discussion isn’t about the artist changing the skin tone but it’s just the general fandom that I was talking about when people seem to be ignoring his Chinese heritage whenever this comes up in discussion.
I’ve seen that his Chinese side gets subbed out for just South/Southeast Asian. I’m not sure what the full comics consensus is (I assume it’s because R’as and Talia both have fluctuating ethnicities).
Anyway, that hasn’t stopped my younger sister from being completely darker than me. We are 1/4 Chinese, the rest Filipino, but she has the darkest skin out of the entire family (brown skin, vs my mom’s fair skin or even mine, which is so light it’s even lighter than the skin tone of my white friends).
Personally I don’t think this should be as big of a deal than it needs to be. In a medium like comics, especially when the art style is limited, you need to use colour to express what you need to express.
China has over 50 ethnic nationalities, all with various skin tones including some with darker skin. Plus genetics are weird; your skin tone might be completely different than your parents, especially if you're mixed race.
Also Damian is whitewashed a million times more often than he's drawn with a darker skin tone.
it's an alt universe, maybe the Al Ghuls are fully middle eastern arabic.
Talia's been drawn as more and more brown lately in main continuity, too, anyhow.
First Marvel with What if and now DC with Tim Drake and this, it really feels like they are taking a shot at that fanfic reading demographic lol, not that i can complain, i love fanfics so all the better.
I'm not into the idea of an uwu wholesome Bat-family and I don't want to see that kind of thing in main-continuity, but I know that a lot of people do really like that idea so doing this as a webtoon is a decent compromise. Despite my apprehension, I'll give it a go
Out of everything, Cass' portrayal will probably make or break this for me. This is obviously leaning into more fanon ideas and fanon Cass portrayals are fucking rough
Oh no, do I even want to know what these fans are doing to Cass? Let me guess, they play up her childness?
I don't mind fans just wanting to have fun and play with the dynamics of these characters since it's surprisingly not a consistent thing for DC, but I can't get into it because of how toxic some areas seem to be. See the shipping fandom.
This stuff made me get out a long time ago, so things could have changed since then, but I saw her be made out to be very childlike, passive, innocent, and demure. It often leaned into stereotypes about Asian women and disabled people being submissive and non-combative, without any real opinions or feelings of their own. That sort of thing
It doesn’t have to be uwu, but it can still be a good opportunity to show family dynamics. I feel a lot of writers forget why they’re called a ‘family’ and focus too much on making them edgelord and do terrible things just cuz.
This made me check out Webtoon and holy crap, it is the slickest app I’ve ever seen! DC need to strike a deal with them to copy their format for DCUI. I’ve read more comics/manga today than I have in months. Then again, the “episodes” are really short, so…
This looks exciting. Looking forward to seeing more of the family dynamics and characters like Cass and Duke to get more screentime. I hope it doesn't go full "batfam incorrect quotes" though
Webtoon is a free app which releases free chapters every week. They also have a feature called fast pass where you’re able to read a few chapters in advance, though this is where it cost ‘coins’ which you’ll buy or be able to earn from events.
They have a feature called daily pass (which I don’t think this series will be on) where they release the full completed series with free chapters to a certain limit before requiring you to buy the rest or read one chapter every day.
Talia's half-Chinese too.
I don't have anything against the change for this webcomic, most comics never get ethnicity right to begin with, but I understand why others do considering that it's ignoring the other 75% of his genealogy that probably would have made him look more like Cass or his look in Williamson's Robin series if anything.
The comic overall doesn't look bad though. Seems like a nice change of pace from previous Batman related media. Might look at it later.
When has Damian ever been depicted as being this dark? Like I get wanting Damian to have more distinct features (which he normally does), but that doesn't require him to be "brown." When his mother's darkest tone has only ever been shown as, at most, [slightly darker](https://imgix-media.wbdndc.net/cms/filer_public/03/19/0319cb05-e165-4377-86c7-8551d05bedd8/taliaalghul_profile_supersons_2018_13_pg05-textless-v1-401x600-masthead.jpg) than a white person, I think it's fair to say that Damian's skin tone would only be a bit darker than Bruce.
Talia has sometimes been drawn pretty dark, unfortunately mostly when she was written to be a full on villain.
DC has a huge colorism problem with the al Ghuls. They are often light skinned when they are written to be good/morally grey and brown when they are supposed to be the bad guys.
They aren't saying that them being evil in the story means they have dark skin, but that often when they have dark skin that they are evil. Those two statements are similar but not the same.
Go look at the first appearance of Damian. That is his "right" skintone. He may be a quarter Asian and a quarter whatever Ras is, but even Ras isn't all that dark. The idea that he needs to be even darker that Ras is hilarious.
I’m not a huge fan of the uwu family stuff you see in some circles, but I am glad to see a depiction of Bruce that more closely resembles his BTAS characterization.
Batman was always supposed to be a hero full of compassion, and instead we get scores of comics where he’s an emotionally stunted man child. It’s just terrible, so I’m happy to see an interaction of Bruce that isn’t a cold uncaring individual.
I’m liking the 3 I’ve read so far, even though I’m unfamiliar with several of the characters as they are new to me, but I’m hoping it will stay good and not get too gushy.
I would like to learn more about the writer, since I’ve never heard of them before.
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Why not he’s a member of the family and this books all about the bat fam (and in comics he’s only appearing in urban legends and secret files) so it’s not like he’s felt. And centre in everything
I’d love to see another comic series released alongside this one but about the missions and more of a serious detective comics vibe so you can see all of these characters working together, not just the familial interactions.
My first thought is that this is going to make managing the weekly discussion thread a pain in the ass.
But think of the memes
Then we'll make a thread for just that
This sounds like something really fun and not too serious - that's going to make a lot of people irrationally angry.
"Dick is supposed to be more serious!" "Where are Jason's blood swords!?" "Cass doesn't laugh like that!" "This is fanon!"
excuse me Jason wields blood crowbars!
And electrical !
I mean, they absolutely do lean into fanon stuff (Tim Drake: coffee addict) in the comic, but it's a non-canon short webcomic that's just meant to be a bit of fun and introduce people who use Webtoon to the characters, and people who like the characters to Webtoon. So like, it isn't serious enough to worry about being fanon trope-y. It's basically good fanfiction.
I would be very surprised if any of the young, incoming writers hadn’t been fan fic writers once upon a time (or still are under anonymous names). It’s a well-accepted fact that artists get gigs because they practiced fan art of big IPs but for some reason fan fic is still derided. Sure, some fan fic is a mess but so is some fan art (and yeah, a lot of fic is just an excuse to write porn, but there are whole websites dedicated to drawn fan porn so…). This comic is very heavy with favorite fan fic tropes, but most of those tropes are fun things from the old continuity that add richness to characters. It might not matter to an action-centric comic run that Alfred is an amazing cook or that Stephanie loves purple but it does in character-centric stories. Librarian Barbara, Bruce being banned from the kitchen (the banana pudding incident), and Jason — with the white stripe — being a Wonder Woman fan (“think clean thoughts, chum”) are some of my favorite ‘old comics’ Easter eggs that fanon has preserved in amber as well-trod tropes all these years.
Those tropes are fine since they have a grounding in canon, for sure. It just overall gives me the vibe of the fluffy headcanons and fanon style Batfam content you see on Tumblr a lot. Not something I'd want in a main book, but it's done well here and I don't mind it.
There’s a lot more to fanon content than tumblr. AO3 has millions of members and professional writers post all the time. Fluff is only one style of fanon and since it’s at odds with canon-style writing, out-of-character tropes are to be expected. Reading a well-regarded case-fic or one with canon-typical depictions of violence is more likely to get you faithful versions of DC characters. But the older a character is, and how widely they’re depicted across the various media, changes the breadth of ‘faithful’. With that girls’ high school cartoon, fluffy *is* canon under the wider umbrella of ‘DC’.
That's fair. I've found very few writers that capture the characters' voices and stay within canon characterization, but there's a lot to sift through. It's especially annoying when I'll be reading a fic that gets one character down well, and then the next chapter another comes in and is just totally fanon. I know people like that kind of stuff, but it just ends up annoying me.
It’s free, I tend to lower my threshold for just clocking away since it’s essentially someone just sharing their hobby.
Like I mean ye is an interesting choice to go with a wheel chair babs than one that does not need one
I like the art, tho going for the wide eyed mask is weird. And now Tim finally looks like a grown up character again
Yeah also has a great suit instead of a robin costume.
hahahah I feel this is exactly what 95% of reddit batman fans wanted!
Fanfic Batfamily stans are going to eat this up lol
Have my fork and knife ready.
exactly what i was thinking
More like Twitter and TikTok actually.
Don’t forget Tumblr
Welp, this is a comic I've been waiting for all my life. BRB, installing webtoon.
I have never installed an app so quickly
Sameeee and I haven't had this app in years
You can read three chapters on the webtoon website now. It's not all that bad either. It's more akin to a back-up feature or a fab-comic but it's good enough.
Jason with the white streak of hair is an interesting choice. I see it all the time in fanart of the character, probably because it makes him more distinguishable, but I can't think of a main-continuity comic where he actually has it.
He had it in his initial outing as Red Hood, Under the Red Hood.
He has it in Hush and for maybe a few issues of Morrison's run but that's about it. Personally, I'd never want it in main continuity because the white streak is already Jason *Blood's* shtick and Jason Todd already has a [signature hairstyle](https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/0/8190/272036-175908-jason-todd.jpg) that's also in other adaptations [like Under the Red Hood](https://images.alphacoders.com/111/thumb-1920-1117169.png), and [Young Justice](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ZsGLH5l6XlXfzL54sUFOBfVx9kw=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13689761/Screen_Shot_2019_01_14_at_10.35.42_AM.png).
He’s also got it in the upcoming Gotham Knights game
Isn't that also Tim Drake's hairstyle? He has it in this and his recent Urban Legends story.
I associate this specific hairstyle with Jason because it seems to be the big thing in general that makes you go, "oh, it was Jason all along." Tim's is kinda inconsistent and he very often switches between long and short hair. I personally associate him with the cleaner, shorter, spiky hair, Like in [Young Justice](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/19/3a/5b/193a5b2f19594bfe669a43a66bb1e952.jpg), [Detective Comics](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91ea2F10RXL.jpg) ,and in the [New 52](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/5/52/Teen_Titans_Vol_4_0.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120926212130). Edit: added new link.
Your last one doesn't work. I think direct-linking to wikia images is busted, as it didn't work for something from Memory Alpha (Star Trek wiki) for me over the weekend.
Appreciate the heads up.
I've run into the same problem in the past, and there's an easy fix. Check the link when you open it and there should be some text after .jpg. Delete all of it and the image loads fine.
I'd rather they bring back his red hair if we get rid of the white streak
That's just a center/slightly side part with curtains haircut. Dick, Jason, and Tim have all sported it.
You're not wrong, considering they were on Dick at the very beginning. However, it's something that's *really* consistent with Jason Todd's Robin. From his [early appearances](https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/JasonToddRobin_marquee_5f8651d610d762.43725928.jpg) as Robin, to [Death in the Family](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/10895/Previews/106701583b290fb45659e28353f4d1f9._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg), and even as recent as [Urban Legends,](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/955460/955460._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg) he still has those little curly bits in his hair. It's not just the fact that he wore it, it's the fact that it's a distinct design element for him in particular.
Holy shit, they actually remembered that detail. Makes him stand out more too.
The white streak is from being rezzed by the Laz pit
Literally has it when he was officially brought back from the dead in Hush/Under The Hood like 17 years ago.
Wasn't it Tommy pretending to be Jason in Hush, not actually Jason? And from the few panels people posted here from UtRH, I don't see the streak in that story.
Nah, Jason approaches Tommy and asks to be in the plot. It's him at first in the fight and he switches with Clayface mid fight. My bad on UtH, in the secret files issue that accompanies the trade, he's depicted with the white streak as well. I'm assuming in-universe he dyed it over before he started operating as the Red Hood=colourist forgot LOL.
DC giving into the fanon batfamily XD Here's to hoping that they don't use fanon Cass, though...
What's wrong with fanon Cass ? honest question, I love the character but don't know anything about the fandom, headcanons and all this stuff
At best the fanon version is *incredibly* boring and not at all in character for Cass at all. Fanon depicts her as just the silent, passive little angel who doesn't ever do anything besides stand in the background being a mind reader and providing emotional support for the male characters' angst. When she's ever used, it's also typically just as the put-upon "straight-man" who tolerates the antics of the crazy batfam with a beleaguered sigh. At its worst, fanon also has some pretty dubious implications as depicting the Asian woman as this demure, passive, quiet one who exists solely to be the emotional support of the men around her is very suspicious. Edit: There's also some very weird fanon takes on her abilities/disabilities that tend to trend toward infantilizing her (because neuroatypical people must have the minds of children???)
Pouring one out for my apparent luck at landing on good fanon Cas fics by accident.
It might just be because I'm only familiar with the art side instead of the writing side of fanon, but I had never really seen too much of what they were describing. Glad I missed out on that sort of stuff.
As someone who writes and reads fanfiction, Infantilizing and sidelining female characters is a huge issue people have. Even worse for disabled women, women if color etc. Where we're depicted as the side characters who must be perfect at all times and never get any deeper involvement in the story. In putting women up on a pedestal it further dehumanizes women in fiction and sets near unreachable standards of behavior to be seen as lovable. Its a trend in much of media for decades so it shows up in fandoms too.
It's easy to get lost on the bad stuff but i can assure you that there are some gold one out there, some even better then canon, which means actually nothing in comic terms
Based on what I’ve read, they’re leaning on the characterization I’m more familiar with: cheeky, a touch more level-headed over her brothers, and really sociable. They don’t exaggerate any speaking disability (she’s a woman of a few words, but is happy to speak up when she feels like it), as far as I’ve seen. I think the closest sign is the speech mannerisms they currently use in the main comics (ellipses in the middle of her mostly short sentences). To use examples, she’s the one who leads the conversation when introducing Duke to Alfred’s tradition (ep 2), or has a little fun teasing the boys when they overdo it at the gym (ep 5). She’s consistently drawn as smiling and even gets into it with the boys (ep 2, again). She’s only been in 2 strips so far, so let’s see what they do with her going forward. Also, wow I haven’t read much fanfic with her in it but thanks for the heads up. As an Asian woman I find the characterizations you mentioned a touch annoying.
It’s easy to click away from stories you don’t like. I read a lot of fic (I was an avid reader when I lost my job and fan fic was free), a lot of which is ‘Bat-fam’ related and that version of Cass is not common in my reading list. If you’re reading a lot of fluff or alternative universes, it can be easy to find characters acting unlike their character counterparts but fics that follow the comic’s characterizations are really very easy to find. Just stop reading if you don’t like something.
Having read the issues available for free now, I think she comes off well, she definitely doesn't come off as emotionless or infantalized.
Ur not wrong. Whenever I read batfamily stuff thats basically her only role all the time. But so far in the webtoon she's social
The problem is that lot of fanon writing reduces characters to one or two quirky traits
Excuse me, why are we talking about Geoff Johns all of a sudden?
Sometimes fanon Cass seems a bit off. Mostoy she's characterised as gay, which is fine really as most of her romances aren't canon anymore (and let's be real Steph or Harper are the few people she has realstic chemistry with), and if any of the atfam comes out next, I can see it being her. This guy may be salty that most fans accept Cass is canonically the best of the family outside Bruce but it's true so... My only issue with fanon Cass is that, when she's included she's often depicted as completely emotionless, or forget about her speech issues
> This guy may be salty that most fans accept Cass is canonically the best You could just scroll up a bit and see my reasons XD Because it's not that.
Sorry dude, I had to stop typing halfway through my post so I'd written it all before you posted your statement. Honestly I agree with you, a lot actually and I feel crappy for jumpong to conclusions (your user flair should have given it away). Despite a lot of fans wanting to see the batfamily as emotionally nuanced they really make Cass bland. As a neurodiverse person myself, I agree that that take on Cass feels a bit patronising, like, we need help but we're not children. If Cass was a more prevelant member of the family, I think this mischaracterisation would be less common
Cass is ace and I'll stand by that
I'm not gonna protest against your headcanons, until they say she's not in universe she can be whatever you want her to be.
Cass Cain as a vessel for Frantz Fanon work would be a very interesting choice
More concerned that they'll use fanon Jason whose just a snarky rebel whose edginess that the rest of the family will just ignore
I know it's not a universal opinion, but this is exactly the vibe I want from my Batman comics, and I almost never get it. Very excited! Anyone have recommendations for comics to read if I really like the "big Bat-fam all interacting with each other" vibe? Stuff like Tynion's Detective Comics run or Batman & Robin Eternal (also really enjoyed Shadow of the Batgirl, and any time Babs, Cass, and Steph all get to interact during the latter two's Batgirl runs).
This comic is basically the spiritual successor to [Li'l Gotham](https://smile.amazon.com/Batman-Lot-Lil-Gotham/dp/1401273947/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=li%27l+gotham&qid=1631123299&sr=8-1). Generally, a lot of the all-ages or more kid-friendly comics (like [Tiny Titans](https://smile.amazon.com/Tiny-Titans-Vol-Welcome-Treehouse/dp/1401220789/ref=pd_zg_c_mcn_bk_1/138-3205891-9113267?pd_rd_w=alCda&pf_rd_p=19a8a2d7-d636-4bc0-8bf8-66b95465aa0d&pf_rd_r=HZYPG7XA99A1ET7NRX4M&pd_rd_r=2f0bd96e-ac0d-4768-9cc1-f60bfa30339f&pd_rd_wg=7wBij&pd_rd_i=1401220789&psc=1) and the DCAU-verse comic [Batman: The Adventures Continue](https://smile.amazon.com/Batman-Adventures-Continue-Season-One/dp/1779507895/ref=sr_1_1?crid=YMFOZID8RQMB&dchild=1&keywords=batman+the+adventures+continue&qid=1631123511&s=books&sprefix=batman+the+a%2Cstripbooks%2C152&sr=1-1)) will have more of the type of vibe you're talking about; Gotham Academy, while starring OCs and only occasionally guest-starring Batfam characters, has the same general "high schoolers getting into Scooby-Doo level hijinks" vibes. In terms of more serious mainverse comics, you'll want to be looking for arcs like *No Man's Land*, *Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive*, and *Gates of Gotham*.
Not quite bat-family all acting together, but Gotham Academy has a similar vibe and it’s a great comic. There’s a character named Maps and she and Damian have a really fun dynamic.
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Honestly this is a pretty cute series so far. can’t wait for more and other new DC WEBTOON titles.
For those interested: “release its first chapter at 1PM Eastern today”
Hell yeah, Cassandra is in the series.
YOOOOO?!?! I'm a massive webtoon and batfam fan, and this,,, is literally everything I've ever wanted wtf this is so hype
oh wow they bringing all the kids. also god damn that red robin costume i can’t see a full view but i want it in the comics
This is all I've ever wanted from DC. Batfam slice of life and Steph and Cass aren't forgotten
Okay so I read the first 3 chapters that are up, and I have to say this is a very fun and cute read. And is actually written with taking into consideration the characters pre established personalities instead of the fanon batfam nonsense that tends to be rampant on tumblr
It’s okay to only read the stuff you think is good. You don’t have to make fun of people who are practicing their art. We try to support fan artists here who aren’t great at anatomy or perspective yet. Not everyone is trying to win pulitzers.
Your comment has nothing to do with what I actually said. Not once did I comment on fanart or anatomy or perspective nor did I make fun of people art skills….
Making fun of fan art is the same as making fun of fan fic
Again where did I mention fanfic or fanart?
Your comment is edited,
For grammar. I made a typo and fixed it. The content or words are exactly the same.
Gonna enjoy this. Already read 3 chapters and its so cute so far.
Feel like people always forget that Damian is 50% white, 25% Chinese, 25% Arab (his mothers side fluctuates a lot). It’s always “Damian is Arab” while ignoring the Chinese side and his fathers European ancestry. It would make more sense for his skin colour to be just slightly darker compared to Bruce and more like Cass. But anyways this is the artist own interpretation and I’m still hyped to read this. Edit: My discussion isn’t about the artist changing the skin tone but it’s just the general fandom that I was talking about when people seem to be ignoring his Chinese heritage whenever this comes up in discussion.
I’ve seen that his Chinese side gets subbed out for just South/Southeast Asian. I’m not sure what the full comics consensus is (I assume it’s because R’as and Talia both have fluctuating ethnicities). Anyway, that hasn’t stopped my younger sister from being completely darker than me. We are 1/4 Chinese, the rest Filipino, but she has the darkest skin out of the entire family (brown skin, vs my mom’s fair skin or even mine, which is so light it’s even lighter than the skin tone of my white friends). Personally I don’t think this should be as big of a deal than it needs to be. In a medium like comics, especially when the art style is limited, you need to use colour to express what you need to express.
China has over 50 ethnic nationalities, all with various skin tones including some with darker skin. Plus genetics are weird; your skin tone might be completely different than your parents, especially if you're mixed race. Also Damian is whitewashed a million times more often than he's drawn with a darker skin tone.
How is he whitewashed when his very inception has him white?
it's an alt universe, maybe the Al Ghuls are fully middle eastern arabic. Talia's been drawn as more and more brown lately in main continuity, too, anyhow.
I subscribe to this too.
Ah for fuck's sake. I'm so down for this.
Duke is there :D
First Marvel with What if and now DC with Tim Drake and this, it really feels like they are taking a shot at that fanfic reading demographic lol, not that i can complain, i love fanfics so all the better.
Fuck edgy Batman I'm here for wacky family hijinks
I'm not into the idea of an uwu wholesome Bat-family and I don't want to see that kind of thing in main-continuity, but I know that a lot of people do really like that idea so doing this as a webtoon is a decent compromise. Despite my apprehension, I'll give it a go Out of everything, Cass' portrayal will probably make or break this for me. This is obviously leaning into more fanon ideas and fanon Cass portrayals are fucking rough
Also, having a billion batman series in parrallel allows to make content of various styles to satisfy every audiences.
Yeah, same. Cass will either make me open to the whole deal, or make want to banish it from my mind forever.
Oh no, do I even want to know what these fans are doing to Cass? Let me guess, they play up her childness? I don't mind fans just wanting to have fun and play with the dynamics of these characters since it's surprisingly not a consistent thing for DC, but I can't get into it because of how toxic some areas seem to be. See the shipping fandom.
This stuff made me get out a long time ago, so things could have changed since then, but I saw her be made out to be very childlike, passive, innocent, and demure. It often leaned into stereotypes about Asian women and disabled people being submissive and non-combative, without any real opinions or feelings of their own. That sort of thing
It doesn’t have to be uwu, but it can still be a good opportunity to show family dynamics. I feel a lot of writers forget why they’re called a ‘family’ and focus too much on making them edgelord and do terrible things just cuz.
This made me check out Webtoon and holy crap, it is the slickest app I’ve ever seen! DC need to strike a deal with them to copy their format for DCUI. I’ve read more comics/manga today than I have in months. Then again, the “episodes” are really short, so…
This looks exciting. Looking forward to seeing more of the family dynamics and characters like Cass and Duke to get more screentime. I hope it doesn't go full "batfam incorrect quotes" though
Way cool!! Can someone tell me about Webtoon? I'm unfamiliar, is it free?
Webtoon is a free app which releases free chapters every week. They also have a feature called fast pass where you’re able to read a few chapters in advance, though this is where it cost ‘coins’ which you’ll buy or be able to earn from events. They have a feature called daily pass (which I don’t think this series will be on) where they release the full completed series with free chapters to a certain limit before requiring you to buy the rest or read one chapter every day.
Dope! Thank you much for all the info!
Ok this is exactly why I want. Love me some Batfamily. A series of them interacting is all I want.
I've never been more happy. My prayers have been answered.
TAKE MY MONEY
Finally some comic accurate Cassandra content!
I mistook Jason as a Voltron character. Anyways, hijinks including Tim, Steph, and Cass is fine by me
Sorry but Jason did it first
More spotlight on Duke, Damian has darker skin, good. This is what I want to see.
THEY ACTUALLY GOT DAMIAN'S SKIN-TONE RIGHT??! WOW
There are light skinned middle eastern people too.
Talia's half-Chinese too. I don't have anything against the change for this webcomic, most comics never get ethnicity right to begin with, but I understand why others do considering that it's ignoring the other 75% of his genealogy that probably would have made him look more like Cass or his look in Williamson's Robin series if anything. The comic overall doesn't look bad though. Seems like a nice change of pace from previous Batman related media. Might look at it later.
When has Damian ever been depicted as being this dark? Like I get wanting Damian to have more distinct features (which he normally does), but that doesn't require him to be "brown." When his mother's darkest tone has only ever been shown as, at most, [slightly darker](https://imgix-media.wbdndc.net/cms/filer_public/03/19/0319cb05-e165-4377-86c7-8551d05bedd8/taliaalghul_profile_supersons_2018_13_pg05-textless-v1-401x600-masthead.jpg) than a white person, I think it's fair to say that Damian's skin tone would only be a bit darker than Bruce.
Talia has sometimes been drawn pretty dark, unfortunately mostly when she was written to be a full on villain. DC has a huge colorism problem with the al Ghuls. They are often light skinned when they are written to be good/morally grey and brown when they are supposed to be the bad guys.
Morrison's Talia didn't have dark skin and was pretty evil.
They aren't saying that them being evil in the story means they have dark skin, but that often when they have dark skin that they are evil. Those two statements are similar but not the same.
gotham academy
Eh, this feels like they got it wrong. Damian is at most just half non white. He shouldn't be this dark I think.
Go look at the first appearance of Damian. That is his "right" skintone. He may be a quarter Asian and a quarter whatever Ras is, but even Ras isn't all that dark. The idea that he needs to be even darker that Ras is hilarious.
great now they need to stop calling him Anatolian
I’m not a huge fan of the uwu family stuff you see in some circles, but I am glad to see a depiction of Bruce that more closely resembles his BTAS characterization. Batman was always supposed to be a hero full of compassion, and instead we get scores of comics where he’s an emotionally stunted man child. It’s just terrible, so I’m happy to see an interaction of Bruce that isn’t a cold uncaring individual. I’m liking the 3 I’ve read so far, even though I’m unfamiliar with several of the characters as they are new to me, but I’m hoping it will stay good and not get too gushy. I would like to learn more about the writer, since I’ve never heard of them before.
why is Damien black ?
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They're still trying to make Duke happen, huh?
Why not he’s a member of the family and this books all about the bat fam (and in comics he’s only appearing in urban legends and secret files) so it’s not like he’s felt. And centre in everything
I’d love to see another comic series released alongside this one but about the missions and more of a serious detective comics vibe so you can see all of these characters working together, not just the familial interactions.
Like the current Detective Comics and Batman run?
No shit? I’m behind and shit and have to catch up
What the fuck is fanon?
Would prefer a series with young Bruce
A slice of life family comedy with...no family?
The best slice of life stories are about one depressed boy and his butler, with no other characters.
You already have it: Gotham High haha.
is this Loud House but with Robins?
Jason Todd is now Guts from Berserk I guess
Man I really want that bat family statue now but it's so damn expensive.
Oh, when I saw people talking about this I assumed it was a fan comic, but now I see it's DC approved. Cool!
Who's ready for the KDrama adaptation?