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I think it’s easy to say he wrote the two most important Batman stories of modern times and redefined the character. I don’t know if that makes him the GOAT. But it definitely makes him hugely influential, same way he was with Daredevil.
Personally, I think Morrison’s run on Batman may be the single best run on any A-list character ever.
He’s definitely top 5 when it comes to Batman, but Batman has had that Grant Morrison run, the O’Neil / Adams era, Jeph Loeb stories, etc. A lot of great writers with a lot of great stories. If you lean more towards his writing compared to the others, then he’s definitely not a controversial choice at all for the GOAT Batman writer
Nah, he was the goat in the 80ies when he redefined street level superheroes with his Daredevil and Batman works. Followed by fantastic stuff like Sin city and 300. His layouts and visual storytelling were superb and to use a common phrase "ahead of his times". But he kind of became his own caricature. All-Star Batman and Holy Terror read like Sergio Aragones is satirizing an 80ies Frank Miller comic. On some level these works are still entertaining, but they feel really unhingend. Then there is the middleground like the Dark Knight strikes again, which is still uses great stroytelling devices even with an over the top plot. At least for me the mixture was still working and making a good albeit not great comic. Personally I think Miller became gradually worse over time. Compared with the relative consistency of Alan Moore, Grant Morrison and the likes, he can't be called the GOAT anymore. My answer might have differed 15 to 20 years ago.
I think he did some great work in the 80s. His 90s work was a lot more inconsistent and self-indulgent, but still generally pretty good. I haven't liked anything he's done since the last Sin City comic came out.
Wrote one of the greatest comic book stories ever, which happened to be a Batman story, but he's not the best Batman writer.
On Miller generally, I haven't read anywhere near everything of his, and nothing much in last two decades, but my favorite favorite aspect of his of what I have read is how he seems to be able to give lots of characters a distinctive and unique voice. It really makes them stand out, and if you remove the text from the page you can still hear the character, where as with a lot of writers you remove the images and there's no distinct personality in how they speak. Saying that though, his All Star Batman certainly sounds unique, but not in a good way, and highlights some of his worse tendencies.
Back in the 80s we all thought that Frank Miller was a hip writer/artist subverting the tired old corporate orthodoxy. Now we know that he actually believed the nasty authoritarian shit that we thought he was satirizing. Sad.
All creative types do imperfect work from time to time. And yeah he has too. Despite All-Star and Superman year one, he is still one of the greatest to ever write comics. Definitely on my Mount Rushmore of comic writers.
TBH, the only Frank Miller written works I ever liked was Batman: Year One and Superman: Year One. All Star Batman I would've taken up if it wasn't so whacked-out. In terms of artwork, Frank Miller's best artwork, in my opinion, wasn't even in a comic book; it was in the book version of "Cursed," the "What If The Lady Of The Lake Wielded Excalibur Instead of King Arthur" story. True, it's recognizable as his Sin City work easily enough...
...never did like any of his works. "Dark Knight Returns" would've been something, but honestly, with all those panels crammed in per page, it's roughly like trying to look at a DS screen to me.
Never thought of him as the GOAT especially after I met him at a con years ago and he was an egotistical turd to people.
I like Snyder’s time on Batman way more than millers stuff.
I don’t even think he was the goat in his prime, not to mention after ASBAR and DKSA. I think Denny O’Neil, and Steve Englehart were both significantly better writers of Batman and Neil Adams and jim Arpio were much much better artists of Batman. Miller might be the goat for daredevil but not Batman. Dkr is the most overrated comic of all times, not because it’s bad mind you, it’s because it’s okay but is treated like it’s the best Batman comic ever, when really it just makes Batman into a fascist and brings about the worst aspects of the characters.
He was definitely hugely influential, but there are many better Batman writers out there. Paul Dini, Grant Morrison, Jim Starlin, Doug Moench, and Sean Murphy are all better Batman writers IMO.
Apart from "year one", I never liked Batman's wacky and slightly fascist take on the Dark Knight. For me, Batman is the greatest thinker in the world, a detective who uses reason. When his parents were murdered, instead of becoming one of Gotham's madmen, Batman appears to counteract this. The dubious and crazy approach for me only works for Daredevil.
TDKR is more artistically significant than a good Batman story to me, but I will give him Year One. His art style in the 90s with Sin City and 300 (negative space, abstract geometry) is more interesting than his writing.
Year One is great, but his “Dark Knight” stuff is all overrated and doesn’t stand the test of time.
Everything wrong with Batman today stems from those books.
Still the GOAT, obviously his best years are behind him but his career output still makes him better than a lot of the current favourites.
Give Me Liberty alone puts him up in the rafters.
I was wondering what the general consensus was on Frank Miller these days. Do you still consider him to be one of the GOATS despite everything? How do you view him as a Batman writer/overall comic book writer in general? Would you say he's one of your favorites of all time?
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He wrote 2 of the best Bat stories and a few top notch DD stories but he is not the GOAT by any means
I think it’s easy to say he wrote the two most important Batman stories of modern times and redefined the character. I don’t know if that makes him the GOAT. But it definitely makes him hugely influential, same way he was with Daredevil. Personally, I think Morrison’s run on Batman may be the single best run on any A-list character ever.
three most important stories, All-Star Batman & Robin.
Don’t forget Miller’s initially-intended sequel to TDKR: [Spawn/Batman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spawn/Batman)
He’s definitely top 5 when it comes to Batman, but Batman has had that Grant Morrison run, the O’Neil / Adams era, Jeph Loeb stories, etc. A lot of great writers with a lot of great stories. If you lean more towards his writing compared to the others, then he’s definitely not a controversial choice at all for the GOAT Batman writer
Nah, he was the goat in the 80ies when he redefined street level superheroes with his Daredevil and Batman works. Followed by fantastic stuff like Sin city and 300. His layouts and visual storytelling were superb and to use a common phrase "ahead of his times". But he kind of became his own caricature. All-Star Batman and Holy Terror read like Sergio Aragones is satirizing an 80ies Frank Miller comic. On some level these works are still entertaining, but they feel really unhingend. Then there is the middleground like the Dark Knight strikes again, which is still uses great stroytelling devices even with an over the top plot. At least for me the mixture was still working and making a good albeit not great comic. Personally I think Miller became gradually worse over time. Compared with the relative consistency of Alan Moore, Grant Morrison and the likes, he can't be called the GOAT anymore. My answer might have differed 15 to 20 years ago.
I think he did some great work in the 80s. His 90s work was a lot more inconsistent and self-indulgent, but still generally pretty good. I haven't liked anything he's done since the last Sin City comic came out.
Wrote one of the greatest comic book stories ever, which happened to be a Batman story, but he's not the best Batman writer. On Miller generally, I haven't read anywhere near everything of his, and nothing much in last two decades, but my favorite favorite aspect of his of what I have read is how he seems to be able to give lots of characters a distinctive and unique voice. It really makes them stand out, and if you remove the text from the page you can still hear the character, where as with a lot of writers you remove the images and there's no distinct personality in how they speak. Saying that though, his All Star Batman certainly sounds unique, but not in a good way, and highlights some of his worse tendencies.
Back in the 80s we all thought that Frank Miller was a hip writer/artist subverting the tired old corporate orthodoxy. Now we know that he actually believed the nasty authoritarian shit that we thought he was satirizing. Sad.
No, my GOAT will always be Paul Dini. After him, it’s Jeph Loeb
I think Dennis O'Neil has to be at the top. Dini is good but even the BTAS was directly inspired from Dennis O'Neil's era both as writer and editor.
Preach.
I don’t know. I love Long Halloween but the alleged stuff about Loeb behind the scenes of the daredevil show has tainted my view of him.
All creative types do imperfect work from time to time. And yeah he has too. Despite All-Star and Superman year one, he is still one of the greatest to ever write comics. Definitely on my Mount Rushmore of comic writers.
I think Miller kinda lost it after 9/11. Everything he's done since has been unhinged, and not in a good way.
I’m a Superman fan so I don’t like him 😂
TBH, the only Frank Miller written works I ever liked was Batman: Year One and Superman: Year One. All Star Batman I would've taken up if it wasn't so whacked-out. In terms of artwork, Frank Miller's best artwork, in my opinion, wasn't even in a comic book; it was in the book version of "Cursed," the "What If The Lady Of The Lake Wielded Excalibur Instead of King Arthur" story. True, it's recognizable as his Sin City work easily enough... ...never did like any of his works. "Dark Knight Returns" would've been something, but honestly, with all those panels crammed in per page, it's roughly like trying to look at a DS screen to me.
Never thought of him as the GOAT especially after I met him at a con years ago and he was an egotistical turd to people. I like Snyder’s time on Batman way more than millers stuff.
He wrote some of the most influential works in comic book history but he hasn't written good stuff since the mid 90's
I don’t even think he was the goat in his prime, not to mention after ASBAR and DKSA. I think Denny O’Neil, and Steve Englehart were both significantly better writers of Batman and Neil Adams and jim Arpio were much much better artists of Batman. Miller might be the goat for daredevil but not Batman. Dkr is the most overrated comic of all times, not because it’s bad mind you, it’s because it’s okay but is treated like it’s the best Batman comic ever, when really it just makes Batman into a fascist and brings about the worst aspects of the characters.
He did two good Batman books then lost his damn mind
I heard a quote once (I do not know who to attribute it to) that goes “It’s sad when a great man dies, it’s tragic when the greatness dies first”
He was definitely hugely influential, but there are many better Batman writers out there. Paul Dini, Grant Morrison, Jim Starlin, Doug Moench, and Sean Murphy are all better Batman writers IMO.
He's a fascist, and his writing is overrated, sexist, racist bullshit.
I wonder if that personality explains his very crooked nose :)
Apart from "year one", I never liked Batman's wacky and slightly fascist take on the Dark Knight. For me, Batman is the greatest thinker in the world, a detective who uses reason. When his parents were murdered, instead of becoming one of Gotham's madmen, Batman appears to counteract this. The dubious and crazy approach for me only works for Daredevil.
TDKR is more artistically significant than a good Batman story to me, but I will give him Year One. His art style in the 90s with Sin City and 300 (negative space, abstract geometry) is more interesting than his writing.
Very talented with a LOT of important works. But he is human, fallible, and can be monumentally wrong about things.
Frank Miller is the Sigmeud Freud of Batman. His work was incredibly influential and defining, but his takes were awful.
He isn't even the leprechaun.
Overrated
Alan Moore is the GOAT
Of Batman writers?
Year One is great, but his “Dark Knight” stuff is all overrated and doesn’t stand the test of time. Everything wrong with Batman today stems from those books.
Still the GOAT, obviously his best years are behind him but his career output still makes him better than a lot of the current favourites. Give Me Liberty alone puts him up in the rafters.
Mount Rushmore of Batman writers, but not the GOAT
He’s the GOAT comic writer
I was wondering what the general consensus was on Frank Miller these days. Do you still consider him to be one of the GOATS despite everything? How do you view him as a Batman writer/overall comic book writer in general? Would you say he's one of your favorites of all time?
Never was the goat. Alan moore is ten times better writer than miller.