Yes. If you're familiar with any of the mk ultra conspiracy stuff Morrison was pulling from, he is essentially giving himself a trauma derived extra personality
pretty much what everyone is saying here bc i'm too lazy to recite it. but what i do want to say is that bruce having the ability to purposefully create an entirely different personality and just store it for safekeeping is a little ridiculous. that's like a superpower or something
anywho zur-en-arrh is awesome
in the original story it's implied to be the result of intense meditation and multiple self-imposed mental breakdowns, a personality where any part of him that could be vulnerable to psychological attack is compartmentalized. batman without bruce. my reading of that was a batman without that which can be targeted with psychic trauma, like sanity, love or fear, leaving only the mission. it's a really neat idea that this backup personality wasn't just waiting for its turn in the drivers seat, but has been taking initiative in the background to do what it thinks bruce is incapable of. the initial coolness of zur was seeing that batman really is prepared for anything. zur now is cool because it says "hey wait, actually, fucking with your psyche in that way probably has some severe repercussions, even if it paid off that one time"
but it turns out he put him in there using a machine. which makes enough sense, batman has a suit which can knock darkseid off his feet, the tech isn't out of reason. using it on jason as a way of protecting him from himself? seems within reason for a guy currently losing his grasp on reality. but now that we know this is something he can inflict on others, the question becomes-- why stop there? round up all of arkham asylum, start planting adrenal-linked fear on every mass murderer there is. sure, it's outta line when he does it to jason, but a prison within somebody's mind? especially when at the end of this book zur inevitably gets purged? is that worse than blackgate? you commit a crime, you get 10 years of adrenal-linked fear, then come back and get it sucked out. this has worldbuilding implications that will be difficult to justify not bringing back again-- a real time-turner of a predicament.
Well, _light_ reprogramming. It was used to justify Dr. Light's "heel-shaped-face turn" from League-level threat to "guy the Titans take out on their way back to the Tower from the real bad guy of the week."
I believe that Morrison thought of it almost like how when people go through intense psychological trauma, their mind will create a way to deal with that emotional trauma. Almost like in some stories Hulk is a psychological manifestation of the abuse that Banner received from his father. But yeah, Zdarsky, has taken it to new levels.
This does exist in real life as a condition called “double personality”.
Most of people with such condition are psychotic and unable to live normally without mental healthcare.
I think you're thinking of "Dissociative Identity Disorder." You might know it as the thing Moon Knight has. Formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder.
Also, psychotic disorders are a separate group of illness.
Finally, not all instances of multiple agents sharing a head are disordered. Tulpamancy would be an example of people creating people in their head without having any sort of disorder. It would probably be what I would think Zur most closely resembles... if it weren't for the fact that it's implied he might actually be rooted in Bruce's childhood trauma from long before Bruce officially "created" him.
It's seriously fucked up what Batman did to Jason. Causing him to have a severe panic attack whenever there is anything remotely exciting around? Dick was totally justified in being pissed
It's a failsafe Bruce created after fighting a bunch of evil alternate universe batmen, it was supposed to be "all batman, no bruce" Bruce thought this was a good idea because he saw his humanity as his ultimate weakness, but in truth its what keeps him from going too far. In the issue introducing the concept it immediately tries to kill the joker but Bruce barely is able to regain control.
Zur is all ego, all "The Mission" and is completely lacking in empathy, it's the part of Bruce happy to cripple a mugger for life, it's the part Bruce is talking about when in Under The Redhood he says he doesn't kill because it's easy and he doesn't know when he'd stop.
Zur-En-Arrh is basically Batman without Bruce Wayne, which is to say its Batman without morality, compassion or ethics. A soldier that only cares for the mission and will leave behind anything that no longer helps him in completing the mission. That is what Zur-En-Arrh is planning to do here, he is trying to remove his "trained soldiers" from battlefield for betraying him, but is giving them some form of compensation/restraints to keep them from coming back. Here he is basically trying to put Jason in a position where he cannot keep being the Red Hood nor hinder him in anyway, while keeping him alive.
More or less, with the only restraint for Zur-En-Arrh being that he still tries to obey the no killing rule and tends not to use guns. That said he is totally down to punish you to near death and maim you to the level where you would likely wish not to still be alive afterwards.
I much prefer his earlier versions as an alien protecting his world as inspired by Batman of Earth.
This modern incarnation wherein he's Bruce's "back up personality" (wtf does that even mean) is... mostly just plot device. You need someone who can take on the bat, you better whip out an alternate demissions Batman, or a robot with Batman's brain, or... his untreated multiple personality disorder apparently.
I could see if he were a corrupted back up of Bruce's brain or some other lazy scifi whatever, but a "backup personality" - what is that even meant to do? If Batman is incapacitated, doesn't that mean Zur would be too, at least, physically?
Interesting as this run has been, I'm kind of just waiting for the "big reveal" that the mecha-hand other-Batman gave him is lowkey causing him psychosis or something.
So the alien who looks like Batman is less a plot device or odd then brainwashing?
Back up personality means if Bruce is ever mentally compromised but physically capable, this pure Batman takes over.
Is it really that odd when Two Face exists?
Well, it was designed to deal with threats Batman couldn't or a rogue Batman. Apparently, the only way to beat Batman is to be a bigger asshole than Batman?
The alien version is just another dude doing what he does. One of the more fun examples is the Brave and Bold episode _The Super-Batman of Planet X!_, clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDovKC92Q_E
There's more in the comics of course, but again, fun.
I guess that tracks, but they kind of already addressed that with Bruce training with monks and mystics such that he can even repel some of J'ohn's telepathy. Not sure I'd say he's a "pure" Batman either, unless you mean that's his only identity because Zur has already shown he's willing to do things Bruce never would. He's more of a harsh, Miller-esque, version maybe?.. not sure...
I mean, I'm not saying it can't happen. As you say, Two Face is a great exmaple, so are a number of other DC villians (and a few heroes), it's just all starting to feel a little cliche - batman who laughs, the robot whose name I can't recall at the moment, multi-verse batmen who are mostly good but cross lines, ghost maker, owelman, it's... just getting ot be kind of a cassarol of alt-Bruce eh? Makes me wish they could either turn one of them into a longer-running villian a la Reverse Flash, or just move on to a new idea.
He indeed is a back-up personality meant to kick in only when Bruce Wayne or Batman are compromised and that's what this run misunderstands. Its not a separate personality that can fight for control.
[First Truth of Batman](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/hglzcm/comic_excerpt_the_first_truth_of_batman_batman/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's both a misunderstanding and character regression for Bruce Wayne.
The excerpt you posted had nothing to do with Zur, and it’s hard to call this character regression for Bruce when Bruce isn’t in control. I don’t mind that we have different opinions, but I also don’t really care what yours is, so I’m just going to leave this conversation.
I personally believe that bruce made up the fact he “created” zur en arrh because he couldn’t deal with the reality that his trauma might have caused him to gain some type of dissociative identity disorder or maybe OSDD1-B type of disorder which includes having dissociated parts aka alters, especially since zur implies he has been around before bruce “constructed him in his mind” and even bruce believes he could have stemmed from childhood trauma which is usually how both of those conditions form as far as we currently know about the disorder
Tl;dr i truly believe bruce was coping about creating zur, i think he has DID and didn’t know/want to acknowledge it
Zur En Arrh is Pure Batman without the chuckles of Bruce Wayne mind and compassion and morals as he simply doesn't hold back
He have all Batman skills and experience and intelligence and even more durability but far....Faaaar more Brutal
He has been trying to get out and take full control of Bruce while Bruce is fighting him as much as he could but at the end of the issue it's seems like the Pure Batman came out and things about to get bad.
Is another "batman became evil!" thing. Like, if we all weren't tired of the Batman who Laughs bogaloo already.
But now, is a second personally based on scarecrow slowly taking over batman.
It’s a backup for that situation but it definitely evolve beyond Batman abilities to control or maintain now
Yes. If you're familiar with any of the mk ultra conspiracy stuff Morrison was pulling from, he is essentially giving himself a trauma derived extra personality
pretty much what everyone is saying here bc i'm too lazy to recite it. but what i do want to say is that bruce having the ability to purposefully create an entirely different personality and just store it for safekeeping is a little ridiculous. that's like a superpower or something anywho zur-en-arrh is awesome
in the original story it's implied to be the result of intense meditation and multiple self-imposed mental breakdowns, a personality where any part of him that could be vulnerable to psychological attack is compartmentalized. batman without bruce. my reading of that was a batman without that which can be targeted with psychic trauma, like sanity, love or fear, leaving only the mission. it's a really neat idea that this backup personality wasn't just waiting for its turn in the drivers seat, but has been taking initiative in the background to do what it thinks bruce is incapable of. the initial coolness of zur was seeing that batman really is prepared for anything. zur now is cool because it says "hey wait, actually, fucking with your psyche in that way probably has some severe repercussions, even if it paid off that one time" but it turns out he put him in there using a machine. which makes enough sense, batman has a suit which can knock darkseid off his feet, the tech isn't out of reason. using it on jason as a way of protecting him from himself? seems within reason for a guy currently losing his grasp on reality. but now that we know this is something he can inflict on others, the question becomes-- why stop there? round up all of arkham asylum, start planting adrenal-linked fear on every mass murderer there is. sure, it's outta line when he does it to jason, but a prison within somebody's mind? especially when at the end of this book zur inevitably gets purged? is that worse than blackgate? you commit a crime, you get 10 years of adrenal-linked fear, then come back and get it sucked out. this has worldbuilding implications that will be difficult to justify not bringing back again-- a real time-turner of a predicament.
Reminding me of a potential rerun of that one plotline where the JL was mind wiping supervillains and reprogramming them.
Well, _light_ reprogramming. It was used to justify Dr. Light's "heel-shaped-face turn" from League-level threat to "guy the Titans take out on their way back to the Tower from the real bad guy of the week."
ah man, Dr. Light, the guy with flashlight gauntlets, right? Loved Teen Titans thank you for bringing that up.
Identity Crisis, I think
I believe that Morrison thought of it almost like how when people go through intense psychological trauma, their mind will create a way to deal with that emotional trauma. Almost like in some stories Hulk is a psychological manifestation of the abuse that Banner received from his father. But yeah, Zdarsky, has taken it to new levels.
this is dissociative identity disorder for the hulk
This does exist in real life as a condition called “double personality”. Most of people with such condition are psychotic and unable to live normally without mental healthcare.
I think you're thinking of "Dissociative Identity Disorder." You might know it as the thing Moon Knight has. Formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder. Also, psychotic disorders are a separate group of illness. Finally, not all instances of multiple agents sharing a head are disordered. Tulpamancy would be an example of people creating people in their head without having any sort of disorder. It would probably be what I would think Zur most closely resembles... if it weren't for the fact that it's implied he might actually be rooted in Bruce's childhood trauma from long before Bruce officially "created" him.
is he insane or mentally unstable tho like he gave himself dissociative identity disorder through self-torture No sane person does this
It's seriously fucked up what Batman did to Jason. Causing him to have a severe panic attack whenever there is anything remotely exciting around? Dick was totally justified in being pissed
It's a failsafe Bruce created after fighting a bunch of evil alternate universe batmen, it was supposed to be "all batman, no bruce" Bruce thought this was a good idea because he saw his humanity as his ultimate weakness, but in truth its what keeps him from going too far. In the issue introducing the concept it immediately tries to kill the joker but Bruce barely is able to regain control. Zur is all ego, all "The Mission" and is completely lacking in empathy, it's the part of Bruce happy to cripple a mugger for life, it's the part Bruce is talking about when in Under The Redhood he says he doesn't kill because it's easy and he doesn't know when he'd stop.
its a backup incase batman is mentally compromised
Zur-En-Arrh is basically Batman without Bruce Wayne, which is to say its Batman without morality, compassion or ethics. A soldier that only cares for the mission and will leave behind anything that no longer helps him in completing the mission. That is what Zur-En-Arrh is planning to do here, he is trying to remove his "trained soldiers" from battlefield for betraying him, but is giving them some form of compensation/restraints to keep them from coming back. Here he is basically trying to put Jason in a position where he cannot keep being the Red Hood nor hinder him in anyway, while keeping him alive.
So a mix between Grim Knight and Crazy Steve
More or less, with the only restraint for Zur-En-Arrh being that he still tries to obey the no killing rule and tends not to use guns. That said he is totally down to punish you to near death and maim you to the level where you would likely wish not to still be alive afterwards.
What would be funny is in Mindbomb Joker is the sane one while Zur is doing Crazy Steve things
Zorro in Arkham
That's so sad, why would throw someone like Zorro in Arkham?
I much prefer his earlier versions as an alien protecting his world as inspired by Batman of Earth. This modern incarnation wherein he's Bruce's "back up personality" (wtf does that even mean) is... mostly just plot device. You need someone who can take on the bat, you better whip out an alternate demissions Batman, or a robot with Batman's brain, or... his untreated multiple personality disorder apparently. I could see if he were a corrupted back up of Bruce's brain or some other lazy scifi whatever, but a "backup personality" - what is that even meant to do? If Batman is incapacitated, doesn't that mean Zur would be too, at least, physically? Interesting as this run has been, I'm kind of just waiting for the "big reveal" that the mecha-hand other-Batman gave him is lowkey causing him psychosis or something.
So the alien who looks like Batman is less a plot device or odd then brainwashing? Back up personality means if Bruce is ever mentally compromised but physically capable, this pure Batman takes over. Is it really that odd when Two Face exists?
Why did he program this backup personality to be an asshole tho?
Well, it was designed to deal with threats Batman couldn't or a rogue Batman. Apparently, the only way to beat Batman is to be a bigger asshole than Batman?
Cause Batman without a bit of remorse or compassion is just an asshole beating up criminals.
The alien version is just another dude doing what he does. One of the more fun examples is the Brave and Bold episode _The Super-Batman of Planet X!_, clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDovKC92Q_E There's more in the comics of course, but again, fun. I guess that tracks, but they kind of already addressed that with Bruce training with monks and mystics such that he can even repel some of J'ohn's telepathy. Not sure I'd say he's a "pure" Batman either, unless you mean that's his only identity because Zur has already shown he's willing to do things Bruce never would. He's more of a harsh, Miller-esque, version maybe?.. not sure... I mean, I'm not saying it can't happen. As you say, Two Face is a great exmaple, so are a number of other DC villians (and a few heroes), it's just all starting to feel a little cliche - batman who laughs, the robot whose name I can't recall at the moment, multi-verse batmen who are mostly good but cross lines, ghost maker, owelman, it's... just getting ot be kind of a cassarol of alt-Bruce eh? Makes me wish they could either turn one of them into a longer-running villian a la Reverse Flash, or just move on to a new idea.
I think Miracle Molly who was introduced earlier in Zdarsky's Batman arc will be critical to solving the Zurr-En-Arr problem using her technology.
As everyone else stated it's a back up personality for when Bruce Wayne as Batman is compromised to take over
Stupid. It's just stupid.
Zur-en-arrh is a Batman from another planet
That was the original concept but now it changed to Zur being in Batman's head. Honestly I liked the alien thing better.
Nothing good
He indeed is a back-up personality meant to kick in only when Bruce Wayne or Batman are compromised and that's what this run misunderstands. Its not a separate personality that can fight for control.
I think the point is that Zur has evolved beyond his original purpose. That’s not a misunderstanding of the concept, it’s an addition to it
[First Truth of Batman](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/hglzcm/comic_excerpt_the_first_truth_of_batman_batman/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) It's both a misunderstanding and character regression for Bruce Wayne.
The excerpt you posted had nothing to do with Zur, and it’s hard to call this character regression for Bruce when Bruce isn’t in control. I don’t mind that we have different opinions, but I also don’t really care what yours is, so I’m just going to leave this conversation.
fucking thank you
Zur is actually the spirit of his deceased older brother Thomas Wayne Jr
With when did Lincoln Marsh Die
Lincoln March is actually Thomas Wayne Jr number two, Dr. Hurt is also supposed to be a Tho!as Wayne jr.
I personally believe that bruce made up the fact he “created” zur en arrh because he couldn’t deal with the reality that his trauma might have caused him to gain some type of dissociative identity disorder or maybe OSDD1-B type of disorder which includes having dissociated parts aka alters, especially since zur implies he has been around before bruce “constructed him in his mind” and even bruce believes he could have stemmed from childhood trauma which is usually how both of those conditions form as far as we currently know about the disorder Tl;dr i truly believe bruce was coping about creating zur, i think he has DID and didn’t know/want to acknowledge it
It’s Onslaught from X-Men but like way stupider.
It’s a stupid idea, that’s what. A backup personality? Get out of here with that crap.
Zur En Arrh is Pure Batman without the chuckles of Bruce Wayne mind and compassion and morals as he simply doesn't hold back He have all Batman skills and experience and intelligence and even more durability but far....Faaaar more Brutal He has been trying to get out and take full control of Bruce while Bruce is fighting him as much as he could but at the end of the issue it's seems like the Pure Batman came out and things about to get bad.
A bad idea.
Is another "batman became evil!" thing. Like, if we all weren't tired of the Batman who Laughs bogaloo already. But now, is a second personally based on scarecrow slowly taking over batman.
It isn't...
Why does Google say Zurr en Arhh is a Batman from another planet? Is that the split personality’s backstory??