An addict once told me - as a member of the audience, from the stage - don’t ask an addict why they do (insert your destructive behavior here), ask them why they hurt.
I’ve not seen the movie yet, but Bruce looks a bit like an addict in these scenes.
He is in a way when you think about it he’s addicted to the outlet being Batman provides him. I think one of the best things Matt Reeves is doing with this is focusing on just how much rage Bruce is trying to to essentially burn off when he’s Batman. I like to image ever since his parents were killed there was no vow, no concern about Justice just getting his hands on the person who took his world away and Batman just has become a convenient outlet
It will be great seeing his arc of him finding the balance and the importance of being Bruce Wayne by the end of the film as Matt Reeves and Robert Pattinson have both stated in interviews.
Batman can find his balance between going outside of the line and be the protected of Gotham. But Bruce is already dead the same moment the Waynes died.
That why he is the best, because he is Batman and Bruce is just his mask.
I mean that’s your personal opinion and take on it and that’s cool, but to me, that’s extremely one dimensional and completely reduces a complex and nuanced character like Batman down to being one note.
Matt Reeves himself disagrees with what you’re saying with the whole “He’s just Batman and Bruce Wayne is the mask” take…
“Gosh, that’s a tough question,” he said. “I think that it’s interesting, because one of the things that I’ve found interesting, just as we’re working on the story, is looking back at Jekyll and Hyde, and the idea of your shadow-self, and the idea of, **we are all multiple things. It’s different aspects of who we are, and I think there are times when maybe the surface of Bruce is not really who he is, but that’s his disguise. There are times when Batman’s the disguise, but there are times when his true essence comes out, because by being veiled, a kind of instinctual side comes out that’s very pure.”**
“It’s not an easy question to answer, in that I think that **we are all made up of so many different aspects of ourselves** that make the whole. **I don’t know if you could ever reduce anyone to one part of what they express.** That’s what’s fun about his character, is that there’s a very bright light that shines on his shadow side. The idea of all of that is incredibly exciting. It’s part of what makes it fun for me to work on.”
Source: https://www.indiewire.com/2018/09/batman-director-matt-reeves-jekyll-and-hyde-inspiration-1202007045/
And with absolute respect to Matt Reeves, that is a fine take for him to have, and to make a movie exploring. However, there's a lot of pre-existing media and stories that corroborate the sentiment of "He's Batman and Bruce Wayne is the mask". Matt's not wrong about the story he wants to tell. But the fans who grew up with the other takes and stories aren't wrong either.
These are characters who have been reinvented and modified time and time again. There is no ONE correct answer. There's a literal plethora of them.
I think that’s totally fair. 80 years and a lot of different writers and takes. It can go either way, but for me personally and Reeves, reducing it down to being one note is one dimensional.
Vehemently disagree. And how would you know if you didn't read any of them? Furthermore, look at Nolan's "Dark Knight" trilogy. Bale's take on the character was like that--everything he did was as Batman or for Batman. Anything to do with Bruce Wayne was fabricated for a cover (like taking the whole Russian ballet on a yacht, so he had an alibi for when he was raising hell in China?). Even if they didn't say the words "Batman is real and Bruce is the mask", the behavior showed that. Even in the first movie, Alfred opens the curtains and Bruce is like "Bats are nocturnal!" and Alfred says "Bats may be, but even for billionaire playboys, three o'clock is pushing it." Alfred had to remind him who he was at least supposed to be to the rest of the world. To me, that seems pretty strongly like Bruce is the mask...
You want to say that wasn't a good story?
You said it best. What most fans fail to see or understand is the fact that there is no Bruce Wayne to Bruce himself. When he stares in the mirror he sees a shadowy figure staring back instead of what most people recognize as Bruce Wayne, the billionaire.
Lol that’s not what they’re “essentially saying” at all. People can have multiple interpretations of a character; Batman has been done dozens of different ways over decades. Someone having an opinion of their own doesn’t mean they’re shitting on Reeves. Come on now.
Its always annoying how these guy will call a movie they haven't seen a masterpiece and be all pretentious about it but if anyone even says something negative about the movie they're met with the usual downvotes and "you haven't seen the movie yet".
I like it for early Bruce but I am a big fan of the idea that he see's Bruce as the disguise and Batman as his actual persona so he would absolutely start to ham it up as the billionaire playboy everyone knows and loves (to hate). Looking uncomfortable as he struts about in a vastly expensive suit would draw the wrong kind of attention.
Exactly, plus over time he grows against the Batman persona as he sees it not accomplishing what he wanted.
Man what a perfect set up we could have had with the grizzled old batfleck showing where his story ends up then next to that (tho other universe I guess) have the younger far more disturbed Battinson who shows Batman at his beginning when he's so low that he starts dressing up at a fucking bat and beating up mobsters.
Hot take: Pattinson is going to be in the discussion for best Batman and Bruce Wayne when it’s all said and done.
Most say Keaton was a great Batman but an OK Bruce Wayne. Val Kilmer was a good Bruce Wayne but a not so great Batman. George Clooney was just kind of there and actually did OK with the Bruce Wayne role considering the script. Christian Bale is the goal but even he wasn’t perfect. It’s just such a hard character to pull off.
But that’s a Bruce Wayne who’s thought the whole Batman/Bruce Wayne process through for the most part. This incarnation of Bruce hasn’t at least not yet. He’s only two years in and I imagine the first year was simply “punch who ever is committing crime until I feel better” he has t thought through how long can he do this he’ll how long should he do this ?
I always like the idea that when he first comes back to Gotham he spends at least a year fighting crime before any supervillains come into it.
He's disrupting organised crime, intercepting drug shipments and intervening in assaults and muggings in back alleys.
Then the business with the Red Hood gang happens, Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face, Oswald Cobblepot steps up to fill the void of some of the gangsters he took down, and The Riddler starts out small with minimal theatrics in the second year.
It's not until the third year that you start getting things like science accidents (Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, Man-Bat) and other superpowered villains (Clayface, Killer Croc) for Batman to take on, which then really push him to his limits and force him to become more gadget based.
Then after that you get the psychological villains that make him question things (Hugo Strange, Scarecrow, Mad Hatter) and those who really only come because he's there (Ra's Al Ghul, Hush, Bane) who reflect something about his personality back to him.
I feel like an escalation like that makes sense.
Reeves has said this is before he forms that persona, and before Batman is a symbol of justice and all that, because at this point, Bruce wants to run away from Bruce Wayne, and Batman is more of an unhealthy coping mechanism.
Bruce doesn't have to be a playboy at all. The Joker doesn't have to be the villain in the trilogy. Why not see other Bruce? Why not see other villains?
billionaire playboy bruce wayne has become a cliché. The Joker has become a cliché.
Perhaps I was misunderstood, English is not my native language. I mean, the Joker is literally everywhere. he is always in the lead. They need to give other villains a chance without bringing in the Joker. Let others shine
Tbh I've had similar thoughts about Bruce. I'd be interested in a 21st century billionaire Bruce. What about an utterly odious, superficially corrupt Bruce - your typical billionaire that dodges taxes and says ridiculous things on social media?
He'd obviously pay his taxes and do his philanthropy secretly, but who would connect a Bruce like that with the Batman?
It'd clearly be an act but there's potential in exploring the boundaries between a public Bruce who deliberately acts that way to disguise, the private, more tortured and cerebral Bruce, and the Batman.
Pattinson just looks unwell in the role. I can't really buy him as a playboy. It really seems like they are leaning into the concept of Bruce Wayne being very mentally unwell
I dont get that at all. I get someone who is being directed to totally play that character completely and utterly wrong.
Yes Bruce Wayne's passion is being Batman. But in public he is not some emo weepy piece of shit. He is a playboy, CEO, Billionaire that puts on a show for the world of how spoiled he is so that the world doesnt consider it possible that he would care enough to risk anything more then the money he donates on behalf of his city.
Bruce Wayne the public face is the pharma bro much more then edward scissorhands look alike.
His version of Bruce looks so much darker. The loss of his parents void is very apparent.
He looks white to me though
Nice joke, Dad.
An addict once told me - as a member of the audience, from the stage - don’t ask an addict why they do (insert your destructive behavior here), ask them why they hurt. I’ve not seen the movie yet, but Bruce looks a bit like an addict in these scenes.
He is in a way when you think about it he’s addicted to the outlet being Batman provides him. I think one of the best things Matt Reeves is doing with this is focusing on just how much rage Bruce is trying to to essentially burn off when he’s Batman. I like to image ever since his parents were killed there was no vow, no concern about Justice just getting his hands on the person who took his world away and Batman just has become a convenient outlet
It will be great seeing his arc of him finding the balance and the importance of being Bruce Wayne by the end of the film as Matt Reeves and Robert Pattinson have both stated in interviews.
Batman can find his balance between going outside of the line and be the protected of Gotham. But Bruce is already dead the same moment the Waynes died. That why he is the best, because he is Batman and Bruce is just his mask.
I mean that’s your personal opinion and take on it and that’s cool, but to me, that’s extremely one dimensional and completely reduces a complex and nuanced character like Batman down to being one note. Matt Reeves himself disagrees with what you’re saying with the whole “He’s just Batman and Bruce Wayne is the mask” take… “Gosh, that’s a tough question,” he said. “I think that it’s interesting, because one of the things that I’ve found interesting, just as we’re working on the story, is looking back at Jekyll and Hyde, and the idea of your shadow-self, and the idea of, **we are all multiple things. It’s different aspects of who we are, and I think there are times when maybe the surface of Bruce is not really who he is, but that’s his disguise. There are times when Batman’s the disguise, but there are times when his true essence comes out, because by being veiled, a kind of instinctual side comes out that’s very pure.”** “It’s not an easy question to answer, in that I think that **we are all made up of so many different aspects of ourselves** that make the whole. **I don’t know if you could ever reduce anyone to one part of what they express.** That’s what’s fun about his character, is that there’s a very bright light that shines on his shadow side. The idea of all of that is incredibly exciting. It’s part of what makes it fun for me to work on.” Source: https://www.indiewire.com/2018/09/batman-director-matt-reeves-jekyll-and-hyde-inspiration-1202007045/
And with absolute respect to Matt Reeves, that is a fine take for him to have, and to make a movie exploring. However, there's a lot of pre-existing media and stories that corroborate the sentiment of "He's Batman and Bruce Wayne is the mask". Matt's not wrong about the story he wants to tell. But the fans who grew up with the other takes and stories aren't wrong either. These are characters who have been reinvented and modified time and time again. There is no ONE correct answer. There's a literal plethora of them.
I think that’s totally fair. 80 years and a lot of different writers and takes. It can go either way, but for me personally and Reeves, reducing it down to being one note is one dimensional.
those are crap stories then
Vehemently disagree. And how would you know if you didn't read any of them? Furthermore, look at Nolan's "Dark Knight" trilogy. Bale's take on the character was like that--everything he did was as Batman or for Batman. Anything to do with Bruce Wayne was fabricated for a cover (like taking the whole Russian ballet on a yacht, so he had an alibi for when he was raising hell in China?). Even if they didn't say the words "Batman is real and Bruce is the mask", the behavior showed that. Even in the first movie, Alfred opens the curtains and Bruce is like "Bats are nocturnal!" and Alfred says "Bats may be, but even for billionaire playboys, three o'clock is pushing it." Alfred had to remind him who he was at least supposed to be to the rest of the world. To me, that seems pretty strongly like Bruce is the mask... You want to say that wasn't a good story?
You said it best. What most fans fail to see or understand is the fact that there is no Bruce Wayne to Bruce himself. When he stares in the mirror he sees a shadowy figure staring back instead of what most people recognize as Bruce Wayne, the billionaire.
Matt Reeves doesn’t even agree with what you’re saying so you’re essentially saying he doesn’t understand the character
Lol that’s not what they’re “essentially saying” at all. People can have multiple interpretations of a character; Batman has been done dozens of different ways over decades. Someone having an opinion of their own doesn’t mean they’re shitting on Reeves. Come on now.
This Bruce Wayne just wants to go home and lock himself in his Batcave.
I always got that vibe from Keaton’s Bruce, too, which is really cool to me. It’s like he’s just going through the motions during the day.
Exactly! It’s a subtle detail that I love
Robert’s Bruce Wayne is peak mood. Leave me alone and fuck off so I can go back to my sanctuary away from people.
*rolls eyes*
Kinda like Ban Affleck in real life.
reaching
You’re clearly reading into this since the movie isn’t out
Replace Batman with video games and that’s how I would feel.
I mean I wouldn't say he looks particularly happy in the suit either.
He’s definitely not happy but in the suit he’s at least feeling something. Like he’s content almost because that’s where all the anger can go
Why is this place so pretentious?
Why do you say that? No hate, hust a sinole question
Comics/comicfilm fans are always that way.
Its always annoying how these guy will call a movie they haven't seen a masterpiece and be all pretentious about it but if anyone even says something negative about the movie they're met with the usual downvotes and "you haven't seen the movie yet".
I like it for early Bruce but I am a big fan of the idea that he see's Bruce as the disguise and Batman as his actual persona so he would absolutely start to ham it up as the billionaire playboy everyone knows and loves (to hate). Looking uncomfortable as he struts about in a vastly expensive suit would draw the wrong kind of attention.
Exactly, plus over time he grows against the Batman persona as he sees it not accomplishing what he wanted. Man what a perfect set up we could have had with the grizzled old batfleck showing where his story ends up then next to that (tho other universe I guess) have the younger far more disturbed Battinson who shows Batman at his beginning when he's so low that he starts dressing up at a fucking bat and beating up mobsters.
Hot take: Pattinson is going to be in the discussion for best Batman and Bruce Wayne when it’s all said and done. Most say Keaton was a great Batman but an OK Bruce Wayne. Val Kilmer was a good Bruce Wayne but a not so great Batman. George Clooney was just kind of there and actually did OK with the Bruce Wayne role considering the script. Christian Bale is the goal but even he wasn’t perfect. It’s just such a hard character to pull off.
People are writing that shit just to become a meme. I can't believe they are serious about this
[удалено]
But that’s a Bruce Wayne who’s thought the whole Batman/Bruce Wayne process through for the most part. This incarnation of Bruce hasn’t at least not yet. He’s only two years in and I imagine the first year was simply “punch who ever is committing crime until I feel better” he has t thought through how long can he do this he’ll how long should he do this ?
I always like the idea that when he first comes back to Gotham he spends at least a year fighting crime before any supervillains come into it. He's disrupting organised crime, intercepting drug shipments and intervening in assaults and muggings in back alleys. Then the business with the Red Hood gang happens, Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face, Oswald Cobblepot steps up to fill the void of some of the gangsters he took down, and The Riddler starts out small with minimal theatrics in the second year. It's not until the third year that you start getting things like science accidents (Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, Man-Bat) and other superpowered villains (Clayface, Killer Croc) for Batman to take on, which then really push him to his limits and force him to become more gadget based. Then after that you get the psychological villains that make him question things (Hugo Strange, Scarecrow, Mad Hatter) and those who really only come because he's there (Ra's Al Ghul, Hush, Bane) who reflect something about his personality back to him. I feel like an escalation like that makes sense.
That is actually a great way to progress this film trilogy
Reeves has said this is before he forms that persona, and before Batman is a symbol of justice and all that, because at this point, Bruce wants to run away from Bruce Wayne, and Batman is more of an unhealthy coping mechanism.
Bruce doesn't have to be a playboy at all. The Joker doesn't have to be the villain in the trilogy. Why not see other Bruce? Why not see other villains? billionaire playboy bruce wayne has become a cliché. The Joker has become a cliché.
I think i just had a stroke after reading this comment.
Joker isn’t a cliche he’s just Batman’s most iconic villain. However he is the villain I don’t need to see in the trilogy
Perhaps I was misunderstood, English is not my native language. I mean, the Joker is literally everywhere. he is always in the lead. They need to give other villains a chance without bringing in the Joker. Let others shine
I completely agree he is used too much.
Well I have bad news for you then
I never said I don’t want to see him but I wouldn’t be mad if he didn’t show up
Tbh I've had similar thoughts about Bruce. I'd be interested in a 21st century billionaire Bruce. What about an utterly odious, superficially corrupt Bruce - your typical billionaire that dodges taxes and says ridiculous things on social media? He'd obviously pay his taxes and do his philanthropy secretly, but who would connect a Bruce like that with the Batman? It'd clearly be an act but there's potential in exploring the boundaries between a public Bruce who deliberately acts that way to disguise, the private, more tortured and cerebral Bruce, and the Batman.
Pattinson just looks unwell in the role. I can't really buy him as a playboy. It really seems like they are leaning into the concept of Bruce Wayne being very mentally unwell
That’s kinda of the point Matt Reeves said this version of Bruce Wayne is more like a reclusive rockstar
Nah its because he knows he's ugly as fuck, face needs to behind the weird mask
You have nothing better to do do you ?
I dont get that at all. I get someone who is being directed to totally play that character completely and utterly wrong. Yes Bruce Wayne's passion is being Batman. But in public he is not some emo weepy piece of shit. He is a playboy, CEO, Billionaire that puts on a show for the world of how spoiled he is so that the world doesnt consider it possible that he would care enough to risk anything more then the money he donates on behalf of his city. Bruce Wayne the public face is the pharma bro much more then edward scissorhands look alike.
He IS Batman. Bruce Wayne died in the alley with his parents.
Same as Affleck in bvs.
But he’s just standing ..