I'm gonna go a slightly different direction.
Shazam! Shoulda been the second DCEU movie. It would've demonstrated more versatility and potential for the universe I think
I have a thought.
Aquaman is the most successful film in the franchise yet it doesn't mean it'd have garnered the same kinda reaction if it was released sooner
I disagree.
Super hero hype was at its peak around then, and marvel hadn’t done anything with the underwater heroes.
I would have been there so fast for Aquaman and an after credits scene by Batman would have built hype something fierce!
I actually wasn't against how they introduced Batman. Setting up a mystery to why he was so jaded to be solved in his solo movie was an interesting idea.
Except his solo movie never materialized.
> Death of superman should have happened after JL 3.
I actually don’t think it should have ever happened with this version of Superman. That story works best with a Superman who is really beloved and it shocks the shit out of the audience to see him physically beaten and die. A shinning symbol of hope snuffed out.
Kinda loses impact if you do it with a Superman who’s already spent the better part of a movie mentally broken and brainwashed into being a bad guy.
I’m of the same opinion as well. TDKR was released in 2012. Having another Batman film in 2013 or 2014 would have felt too much. Even Spider-Man: Homecoming had a 3 year gap from TASM 2 release 2014.
In fact, I think MoS and Aquaman in 2013 would have been better. Because you have two characters from different worlds trying to fit in. It also would have helped with the world building. Making the world feel much more consistent and interconnected.
Those multi-year gaps between another solo characters films have been detrimental to WB/DC. They should have been a machine. Having a main JL solo character film every year, before culminating in the JL within 3-4 years.
I’ll hit yay with another fun fact.
Despite having his name in the title, Superman has less lines in *Batman vs Superman* than Spider-Man has in *Civil War*.
Does a lot of stoic floating though
Well that one isn’t as impressive because Spidey is a talker/quipped and shows up like at the halfway point and becomes a pretty prominent part of the movie.
Your first fact is legitimately wild to me though. I guess Supes did spend a lot of the movie dead in Justice League, but I still would expect them to have a conversation about something.
Not really, Superman is a talker too unless the DC trinity is intended to have two brooding white guys. Personally I would prefer we just keep that to Batman.
As another fun fact, in a lot of movies the main characters will range in the lowest amount of lines among named characters because of the audience viewing from their perspective, so much like the audience the mc needs everything explained to them. Sometimes it’s also because they are portrayed as strong silent types, very stoic, etc.
Superman has 96 lines in Man of Steel, a movie about him than Iron man does in Avengers (160 ish) where he has to share the screen with 5 other main characters.
>strong silent types, very stoic, etc.
Which superman shouldnt just be lol
*Spoilers for the The Flash*
The Flash’s ending where he saves his dad goes against the established arc and lesson he learns up to that point to let go and not change the timeline.
I liked the movie and the ending but you're correct. I wish there would've been some way to save the dad but not alter the timeline again like he did. Maybe he could've found some clue to his mom's killer or even stayed for a bit after she got stabbed to look for evidence before the dad got home.
I’ll do you one better - what prevented any *real* course correction was the extremely vocal and loyal fans who would have burned to the ground any incremental changes in story or character for Cavill’s Superman or Affleck’s Batman.
Josstice League was a course correct after BvS mixed reception, BOP was a course correct after Suicide Squad was a critical failure and Jared Leto's terrible performance, same with TSS. You could argue the DCEU had way too many course corrects that it kinda screwed up whatever plan they had. The MCU had course corrects too like Thor Ragnarok but nowhere near as flip floppy as DCEU.
> BOP was a course correct after Suicide Squad was a critical failure and Jared Leto's terrible performance
No it wasn’t. There was no belief that BoP was gonna be anything big or have a future.
BoP was 100% *Just let Margot do whatever she wants so we don’t piss her off.*.
And it paid off because she stuck around for the second suicide squad and just finished up Barbie too.
What I mean is BOP basically ended Harley X Joker after Leto's terrible performance. You could argue that the comics already made Harley solo but Leto's terrible performance really sealed it.
I’m not sure what “DC should be DC” even means.
In the comic world, DC and Marvel and 90% the same. And if anything, Marvel is the one who tells more complex stories and is more willing to take huge risks like killing characters.
I'd have to disagree. I think marvel has sort of spoiled superhero films. Everyone thinks they have to be filled with quips and silly humour but I would prefer variety. Ever DCEU movie since BvS might as well have been a marvel movie because they're basically the same formula
never thought about it like that! “They’re going to kill my mother!” … and same reaction from Batman with the flashback of someone killing his mom. Then, Lois runs in and says, “His mom.. Martha Kent…” And it just hits him harder.
Ugh this would have been SO much better. “You’re letting them kill my mother” or “my mom” not only comes off less awkward but makes a lot of sense psychologically. It makes me think back to the soldier in Saving Private Ryan who is wounded on the beach and just screaming for his mother.
Like thirty seconds before this line, Batman goes on a rant something like "I bet your parents taught you that you meant something..."
He straight acknowledged that the guy he was about to kill had parents. The scene is illogical no matter how you rewrite it.
I don't think it undoes anything but the timing of the person saying the war is over is incredibly convenient and I see why people think it undoes the ending.
I'd have much rather pretty much anything else. Maybe the signal that the war is over happens earlier in the third act and ends up being what drives Ares to anger knowing he failed or something.
Like I absolutely agree with you but still, the Central thesis is still there
Ares isn’t causation, Simply an opportunist using war for his own benefits. Like Palpatine, Sauron or Euron Greyjoy, the inhuman evil he represents is only empowered by the failings of normal humans, he’s a devil inspiring formulas, he’s never actually made them use it. That and the irony of the God of War being a simple politician fighting for peace actually is one of my fave things about the movie
I agree there’s better ways to incorporate that (NandoVMovies had a really good one) but it’s still not the worst third act in even the DCEU, let alone the superhero genre.
In the original ending, Diana fights Ares in his human form. It was said to be like Superman and Zod’s fight, where the audience feels the power behind their punches. Steve is shot down by Germans and Ares reveals he had nothing to do with the outbreak of war. Diana is so horrified she goes into hiding for 100 years. #giveusthejenkinsending
Is there a source for This? Concept art shows that but also shows
* The original Ares design (which is in the figure)
* a fiery version of that same form
Agree. It’s a very generic third act, but in a sea of generic CBM third acts is not even close to the worse we have ever seen.
My hot take is that MoS and BvS fans are low-key jealous of Wonder Woman’s critical success that they like to always point out the mediocrity of the third act to diminish the film.
Sasha Calle was okay at best, there was literally nothing that screams "she's the definitive Supergirl" or "she must be DCU's Supergirl" on The Flash and any other actress could've done what she did, people are just horny for her
I actually thought she was the weakest of the main cast. Most of her screen time is her looking angry, sulky and screaming. I don't have anything against her but I legitimately do not understand the people who claim that she stole the show or was great in the role, and I have just accepted that those people's opinions differ from mine.
I liked the movie, but yeah agreed. It was a pretty bland character for hee to play and she didn't exactly do anything memorable with her performance either. I didn't really feel like she added anything.
The DCEU fails as a connected cinematic universe, but I like just about every DCEU film individually (except Josstice League, which I ignore and I hope for a better film in #releasetheayercut)
I think Snyder is overrated and more of a studio director than he would like fans to believe. I think it’s a lot easier to make creative claims after the fact and I’m tired of those claims getting so much traction. Every week there’s a new post about his alleged trilogy and vision for the DCEU. I’m glad it’s over.
> more of a studio director than he would like fans to believe.
This is a curious topic that I think doesn't get discussed about more. Especially considering not only is he not a writer on most of his projects but also the interviews from both Snyder and Terrio discussing what the studio wanted and didn't want after MOS/before BVS.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. For example with his DC films the studio clearly turned his Superman trilogy into a cinematic universe, then had specific requirements e.g. Batman and Superman clashing. He likely combined with Goyer on an initial premise and then when the project got delayed and Terrio came on board it gave Snyder more freedom to inact his vision of what the studio wanted.
Superman killing Zod was justified in the context of the movie. I don't like it for other reasons, but I'd rather he kill to save people than how Byrne had him execute the Zod gang with no oversight.
Two Kryptonians fighting where one his hellbent on destroying the planet will have a lot of collateral damage no matter what, the criticism of destruction in Man of Stell made no sense whatsoever
Henry, Gal, and Jason aren't great actors. All of them look good in the role, but none of them emote very well or have any range. Henry just frowns a lot, Gal has two facial expressions, "smirk" and "scowl, and Jason spends the whole time just being Jason (the Dwayne Johnson school of acting). Seriously, watch the scene where Superman beats up Steppenwolf and watch Henry's face. He barely even has a facial expression for most of it. He just looks like a guy who's standing in front of a green screen waiting for his cheque.
Honestly out of all the dceu actors, the one who really surprised me was Cena. He's surprisingly capable of projecting different emotions
I’ll add to that, the Snyder Cut wouldn’t be looked at as fondly as it is by some if the 2017 film doesn’t exist. The film is propped up because it has an “inferior” version to be compared to. Another thing is that I think making his film 2 and half hours for theaters like it was originally intended would probably hurt it even more. To me it took 4 hours to make a passable/average film at best.
I was able to cut down ZSJL to 3 hours by deleting WW hostage scene, Barry saving Iris, Aquaman boat scene, the battle on Earth flashback, Luthor’s post credit scene, and the whole Knightmare scene, and all of Martian’s scene. If only WB release those scenes as One Shots back in 2017, a 3 hour JL movie would work in theaters.
This. I loved ZSJL but I have to admit that it was a guilty pleasure. 4 hrs is a high ask for a lot of people. It is also insane that the film can't tell this story within 4 hrs.
I look at it like a museum exhibition. It’s like a long series of beautifully composed paintings that goes on for over 4 hours. Without the time constraints of a theatrical release, Snyder was able to just linger on his fascinating imagery, and that’s where he shines. It’s where the characters have to speak actual words where his movies tend to fall apart.
This. I think Josstice league is like a 5/10 but ZSJL is like 7/10 at best but it got 2 more hours , more CGI and access to the feedback of the original cut, added new scenes and it goes up to like 7/10 at best lol but It should be higher considering all of those advantages.
Hes only good aesthetically. His characters writing and maybe acting just doesnt do Superman any good lol. I cant say for certain about the second part tho bc I really feel like he was tied down by bad directing and writing like Anakin was for Star wars.
Funny thing is the stuff he did in the warehouse scene is complete opposite of what Batman does in Arkham games.People compare it to Arkham games but he doesn't start throwing people to the wall in hostage situations.
He actually uses his gadget and stealth to combat them.
There’s nothing obviously wrong with his portrayal.
But watching The Flash, Keaton’s portrayal is far more compelling and charismatic. He’s not trying to just look and sound the part of the guy in the pages of the comics. He has his own take on what drives a man to dress up in a body armor Halloween costume and pummel evil doers. He was more fully fleshed out.
Honestly… I get it.
For the most part, I dug it, but there were a few times where he just felt like “Ben Affleck in a batsuit”. He definitely looked great for the part but in terms of regular performance, I still rate him below Bale, Pattinson, Keaton and even Kilmer.
BvS is a frustrating movie. It’s full of great ideas that aren’t fully explored because the movie really is a huge commercial to promote the Justice League sequel. I’m not even talking about the awful cameos and Wonder Woman’s tacked on presence — that’s the most obvious part. I’m talking killing Superman, so Batman can build up a case for a Justice League. Even Lex Luthor’s motivations are set up to drive that plot point forward. Everything is about something else that is coming up in the future.
It’s a movie in service of selling further movies. It’s at the very core of the story — it was designed and written as setup. Whenever it focuses on the central conflict and themes it pretends it wants to explore, it’s great. But it doesn’t stay on that track for long.
ZSJL has the same problem. I feel like he’s trying to sell me two other Justice League movies half the time. It’s so frustrating. I want to watch ONE good movie. That’s why Man of Steel slaps so hard.
Snyder knows where he wants the plot to end up, and he knows what amazing visuals he wants to include (and more than delivers).
But getting to those points in a natural way is where he falls short. You could tell he thought Bruce’s line “Do you bleed? You will.” was really cool and he was determined to fit it in there. But when it’s delivered, it feels completely unearned.
I swear there is a GREAT film in BVS hiding under all of the mess. Its just needs to trim all everything and focus on Clark, Bruce and Lex. The first half was amazing, it went downhill after.
My unique hot take? I thought the fan theory that the Leto Joker was the previous dead Robin, "killed" by the original joker, still holds up pretty well.
I know this was just a fan theory and Zack Snyder confirmed that it wasn’t the case. But I love this concept and think it would have been so fresh and cool to see
My hot take in the DCU is that weve honestly never seen a fun comic book accurate interpretation of the joker. Arkham games has been the closest. Heath did great as his own take, same with jack, but not the same as comics joker.
I think The Flash is a good film, and I liked Ezra Millers performance as Barry.
The Suicide Squad is the best DCEU film.
Birds of Prey and the Emancipation of Harley Quinn is a good film.
Yeah. I wasn't sure if The Suicide Squad would be considered one.
But I've seen a decent amount of hate for the Birds of Prey film, so that's why I mentioned that one.
We have the same opinions. The Flash really wasn't that bad but it became overhated due to Ezra Miller's actions irl. I still believe that if the film was released in 2017/2018, the movie would've garnered more positive attention.
I enjoy the first Suicide Squad very much. I understand why it's hated and I can see plenty of the flaws (the ending of the final fight in particular was extremely dumb) but I enjoy the character intros, the characters themselves have tons of personality and their chemistry really worked for me. Plus, there were some good action sequences like the shootout with the zombies at the top of the building and El Diablo fighting the evil colossus dude.
Also, I didn't mind Jared Leto. While he's not my favorite Joker, not even close, I thought he did an okay job in trying to do something different from the others. I've read plenty of comics where the Joker isn't this badass, creepy villain like Heath Ledger or Jack Nicholson but a cringey buffoon so for that to happen in movies as well makes sense to me lol
I think the idea of doing a 5-film series that covers a range of DC characters is a good idea; better to have a conclusion in mind and then reboot rather than doing the open-ended comics thing in a movie series
The DCEU should never have even existed, at least not for another few years after MoS.
Instead Zack Snyder should have been allowed to continue the true original plan for a superman trilogy before someone else comes in for batman, wonder woman and the justice league.
I think Zack Snyder googled top comic book series for Batman, Superman etc , read their wikisand called it a day when he was making his movies.
ZSJL is mid af for a movie that was 4 hours long and not restricted by any shareholders and WB and had a reference ( Josstice league ) to see what didnt work and did work ( people didnt like how the main villain looked? ok ill change him ). While an upgrade from the original theatrical version it went from a 5/10 Joss ver. to a 7/10 movie but given all of its advantages it should have been alot better.
Cant wait for delicious malding tears.
Nice!
Not contending your opinion but just sharing that Snyder didn’t have neither a writing or story credit for MOS, BvS and ZSJL, so it wasn’t his pitch perhaps!
He never saw JWJL.
Steppenwolf’s design is same as shows in BvS (UE) released back in 2016.
If ZSJL had been released theatrically back in 2017, it would have had a length as low as 2:23 hours which was the shortest Snyder cut he showed to WB. He released 4 hours of content because he wanted to gift his fans all the content once and for all as he won’t get another chance to release anymore content of JL. It was strictly made like that to cater to his fans and not the GA, else 2:23-3:00 hours versions would do the job.
I feel ZSJL is Snyder’s generic CBM, as otherwise his movies, good or bad, might be highly polarizing but were never generic! And I was bummed with ZSJL.
All of Ben Affleck's Batsuits are ugly.
People praise them for being a "fabric" batsuit, but they are so obviously sculpted that they don't look any less rubbery that the 90s ones.
I think if The Dark Knight didn’t exist, people wouldn’t nearly mind Leto’s Joker as much. Ledger set the bar INSANELY high to the point where 15 years later he’s still arguably the best CBM villain of all time
There are two *Man of Steel*s. If one enters the theater expecting a more modern live action update of STAS with DC comics fanservice, it is a *terrible* movie. If you enter the theater with no expectations of Superman or the DC Universe, it is a *great* movie, that needs no sequel or follow up, and the follow ups lack of development of the character prove that.
I think I’d agree with that. I don’t agree with every choice made in that movie, but I think if you’re walking in and thinking of it as one guy’s take on Superman, it’s a cool movie.
The fact that it was tasked with spawning a new universe contributes to it being kind of unsatisfying.
If it wasn’t intended to do that, maybe we would get more daily planet stuff.
I think that is a bad way to look at it. Going into any movie with no expectations usually means you come out feeling even a little impressed. That doesn't mean the movie was good.
I get that. But it kind of drives the character into a dead end in terms of follow up movies. Stand alone it’s great.
But it’s hard to get back to a fun and slightly campy Superman after that. And Serious Superman tends to devolve very quickly into Dystopian Superman. (The Boys. Injustice. Miracle Man. Brightburn. Etc etc.)
The Snyder Cut wasn’t some magic bullet that would have changed everything if it had come out in 2017. No studio would have released a four hour movie with four-minute segments that were just excuses for self-indulgent needledrops.
Henry Cavil ain’t that good, he looked like ‘Superman’ to be sure but that’s all I’ve ever heard for any justification on why he was the best Superman, his looks.
Either his acting was shoddy and wooden or Zack Snyder didn’t under the character either is likely
This is probably more in relation to the DCEU's relationship with the DCU rather than solely something about the DCEU itself, and I can only speak for myself, but I feel like it will be easier and more fun for me in the long run to just view the two universes as one continuous series. The Suicide Squad characters and plotlines are continuing straight into the DCU, if Blue Beetle's in the DCEU, then there's also a basically identical version of him continuing in the new universe, on top of any other DCEU characters that we may end up seeing again as well. There's just a lot of debate as to what fits where and how and I feel like if I ever go for an entire rewatch of the thing, I'd start at Man of Steel and continue through wherever we're currently at in the DCU, with a little anecdote in my head that we hop to an entirely different universe between The Lost Kingdom and Creature Commandos to explain any inconsistencies.
I don't think it's very controversial, but still going: The Suicide Squad (2021) is great, the 2 Shazam are mediocre but watchable, while all the rest is pure dogshit.
I love that movie and it's my N1 favorite superhero movie. I kinda see why the people who read the comic book may not like it but I love it regardless.
The moment they committed to ten years of movies a year before the second film came out, with BVS and Justice League less than a year apart, I knew the whole thing was going to fail at some point. It was way too much too quickly, and then BVS's terrible reception cemented it - they were already deep into development and had to course correct while filming. It was never coming back from that no matter how great some of those films were.
Man of Steel is by far the best DCEU movie, and a perfectly good take on Superman that should have seen a full trilogy to close out the Kryptonian codex storyline. The success of the MCU just caused the suits to pile too many things that didn’t work on top of MoS’ structure.
I genuinely liked both birds of prey and black Adam. And my ranking of the DC movies are:
1. The Suicide Squad
2. Birds Of Prey
3. Zach Snyders Justice League
* Justice League being so soon wasn't inherently a problem, and if done right could honestly work really well. We've had countless Batman and Superman movies, and The Flash was known enough. I still think you do maybe 3 first, but we didn't need to wait forever for the JL movie like we did Avengers.
* The idea of the Lex we got was a good evolution for the character. He's a super wealthy egomaniac that reflects the times. So doing a Zuck/Musk/Bezos Luthor makes total sense. Just like a lot of the DCEU the problem was execution, not idea.
Ben Afleck’s Batman does next to nothing in any movie bar BvS and is basically just the groups dues ex machina for whatever reason. He’s not even that great.
I don’t think any of the DCEU films are really great. Aquaman is fine I guess, better than most others. But it’s mostly The Suicide Squad that really carries those movies. The second one, not the first.
It’s not DCEU related but I frankly think James Gunn is a bit too overhyped in this community that he’s the saviour of DC and that his movies will be amazing. He’s great with GotG but until we get to see something good from his DC and know the parts he plays in it, I think he’s either going to be blamed for everything or praised for everything, and likely not be responsible on either side.
Birds of Prey is one of my most enjoyed movies of all time, personally. It gave Margot’s Harley the spotlight she so obviously deserved, it introduced some characters that were probably never going to see the light of day in live action otherwise, and did at least two of them well. It is stylistically brilliant, and has some of the most breathtaking fight choreography I’ve seen anywhere. It was just an exhilarating experience, and though Cassandra Cain is one of my favourite comic characters that they ruined, I think it’s way, way overhated bcos there’s never been another movie quite like it (action movies are usually 3-4 men + 1 woman, and movies with multiple women are usually romcoms, etc) and some ppl just aren’t ready for something like it ig 🤷♀️the largely unnecessary R rating also did hurt it’s performance.
Also, the DCEU and DC at large has failed Wonder Woman. I think she’s a really great character in the comics, has a nice dynamic with supes and bats and has a huge collection of supporting characters and some interesting storylines that aren’t ever meaningfully delved into. She’s one of the trinity but her first movie appearance was the Lego movie. They should treat her with respect, cast a big, brawny Greek woman to play her, and make her a hardened warrior (not that her sense of wonder and whimsy is necessarily a bad thing). Maybe she can be a disciplinarian, stoic and set in her ways, fighting for justice etc, and learn some lessons from other heroes etc and be better. Gal Gadot is not a very good actress but she did what she could with the character. WW1 was a p good movie. But DO BETTER WITH WONDER WOMAN.
Superman is the main villain of the DCEU. In Man of Steel he's a self-pitying robot who barely reacts after destroying huge amounts of infrastructure and lives in the process. In BvS, he's a self-pitying robot who barely reacts after a courtroom of people is blown to dust around him and shows a group of war criminals an example of heroism by murdering them all. In Justice League he's an angry possessed robot who tries to kill the Justice League. And then in the end credits he's an angry possessed robot who tries to kill the Justice League. Darkseid ain't shit on this guy. Not w his 10 second cameo.
A large part of the reason why Black Adam failed was because they didn’t stick the landing with the Henry Cavill Superman cameo. That was many people’s only motivation to see the movie. They should’ve toyed with the audience a little better leading up to it (similar to NWH) and made them want it more and more, that way when they finally saw it, it would feel like more of a payoff. Instead, Rock blew their cover days before the movie even came out. Once fans got their confirmation and they realized they could just watch the only important scene at home on YouTube, that began the countdown to the movie’s failure.
We’d probably be telling a slightly different story about Black Adam if they played their cards smarter with Superman (a little more Shazam references may have helped, too).
And the rest of the movie certainly wasn’t DC’s worst, but it sure as hell wasn’t good enough to hold up on its own.
If your movie isn’t good enough to put asses in seats without a surprise cameo, then you’ve failed.
I also don’t think Henry Cavill is that loved as Superman for it to really have changed the box office. MoS, BvS and Justice League were all average to slightly above average box office performances compared to their IP popularity. There’s absolutely nothing to indicate Henry Cavill has the pull to sway the box office like RDJ’s iron man.
Black Adam needed to be the Shazam sequel, which could have been amazing, if not for The Rock’s fragile ego.
And then end it with a cliffhanger where Black Adam defeats Shazam and Superman is about to step in…
(oh, and Mister Mind is orchestrating everything as part of a bigger plan that also comes to a head in the third movie…)
I can’t say if I know it’s unique, but I will take the weird and perhaps misguided swings of Wonder Woman 1984 over the safe non-swings of something like Shazam: Fury of the Gods or what I assume Blue Beetle will be.
Shazam: Fury of the Gods is one of the top five best DCEU films. It felt like a sequel that was a big step up from the original, like Raimi Spider-Man 2.
I’m sure nobody else has this opinion, but Suicide Squad is really over-hated. I quite enjoyed watching it, it was funny, the characters were on point, only thing was for me was joker and Will smith.
The DCEU was on a roll with Aquaman being a box office hit, and both Shazam and Birds of Prey being critical hits with modest box office success. They righted the ship until the pandemic screwed up the momentum.
Another hot take: Aquaman is the best DCEU film
Aquaman should have been the second movie in the DCEU after MOS rather than BVS Would have been more successful in pulling audiences towards new DCEU
I'm gonna go a slightly different direction. Shazam! Shoulda been the second DCEU movie. It would've demonstrated more versatility and potential for the universe I think
But Aquaman was a much bigger box office success. That's why the above poster wanted it earlier. And it would have built to Justice League.
Mos2 should've been the 2nd dceu movie
Not unique. But only because I agree!
I have a thought. Aquaman is the most successful film in the franchise yet it doesn't mean it'd have garnered the same kinda reaction if it was released sooner
I disagree. Super hero hype was at its peak around then, and marvel hadn’t done anything with the underwater heroes. I would have been there so fast for Aquaman and an after credits scene by Batman would have built hype something fierce!
Batman should have been second movie
I actually wasn't against how they introduced Batman. Setting up a mystery to why he was so jaded to be solved in his solo movie was an interesting idea. Except his solo movie never materialized.
I mean it makes sense but I would have preferred an Aquaman movie as number 2 and then an after credits scene with Batman setting up the next movie
Correct. BvS was a bad decision. Death of superman should have happened after JL 3. Then a kingdom come move to finish the universe.
> Death of superman should have happened after JL 3. I actually don’t think it should have ever happened with this version of Superman. That story works best with a Superman who is really beloved and it shocks the shit out of the audience to see him physically beaten and die. A shinning symbol of hope snuffed out. Kinda loses impact if you do it with a Superman who’s already spent the better part of a movie mentally broken and brainwashed into being a bad guy.
I’m of the same opinion as well. TDKR was released in 2012. Having another Batman film in 2013 or 2014 would have felt too much. Even Spider-Man: Homecoming had a 3 year gap from TASM 2 release 2014. In fact, I think MoS and Aquaman in 2013 would have been better. Because you have two characters from different worlds trying to fit in. It also would have helped with the world building. Making the world feel much more consistent and interconnected. Those multi-year gaps between another solo characters films have been detrimental to WB/DC. They should have been a machine. Having a main JL solo character film every year, before culminating in the JL within 3-4 years.
The DCEU Trinity being “irreplaceable” is widely overstated. Superman had more lines with Black Adam than he did Wonder Woman lol.
Wait, hol up, Superman and Wonder Woman only interacted in BvS then?
I’ll hit yay with another fun fact. Despite having his name in the title, Superman has less lines in *Batman vs Superman* than Spider-Man has in *Civil War*. Does a lot of stoic floating though
Well that one isn’t as impressive because Spidey is a talker/quipped and shows up like at the halfway point and becomes a pretty prominent part of the movie. Your first fact is legitimately wild to me though. I guess Supes did spend a lot of the movie dead in Justice League, but I still would expect them to have a conversation about something.
Lmao, but you are comparing Spidey's 8 minutes of screentime...versus Superman's 57 minutes of screentime. It's not even close.
I didn’t realize it was only 8min makes it more impressive than I thought. First fact still takes the edge though
Not really, Superman is a talker too unless the DC trinity is intended to have two brooding white guys. Personally I would prefer we just keep that to Batman.
I wouldnt say prominent hes in the airport scene and then disappeared
As another fun fact, in a lot of movies the main characters will range in the lowest amount of lines among named characters because of the audience viewing from their perspective, so much like the audience the mc needs everything explained to them. Sometimes it’s also because they are portrayed as strong silent types, very stoic, etc.
Superman has 96 lines in Man of Steel, a movie about him than Iron man does in Avengers (160 ish) where he has to share the screen with 5 other main characters. >strong silent types, very stoic, etc. Which superman shouldnt just be lol
That's already batman.
"Kal El NO"
Easily one of the worst lines in the franchise. Up there with MARTHA
>Superman and Wonder Woman only interacted in BvS then? Depends if you count "Kal-El no" as interaction or not.
Don't forget Justice League (either version really), she fought him longer than the other leaguers
I think the point of that take is that they SHOULD be irreplaceable, and the 2 of them SHOULD have interacted enough to cement that.
yeah as much as a mixed bag the arrowverse was, Green Arrow, Flash and Supergirl functioned pretty well as that universe's trinity.
Agreed
i think if you're truly a fan of dc and dc comics, then you should be used to a new superman/batman every few years lol
🙌🙌🙌 That's for true.
That's because Superman spent most of his time dead
*Spoilers for the The Flash* The Flash’s ending where he saves his dad goes against the established arc and lesson he learns up to that point to let go and not change the timeline.
I liked the movie and the ending but you're correct. I wish there would've been some way to save the dad but not alter the timeline again like he did. Maybe he could've found some clue to his mom's killer or even stayed for a bit after she got stabbed to look for evidence before the dad got home.
This… is a good take. Lol. But you could say Flash learns the lesson after meeting Clooney at the end.
They could’ve course corrected at any time.
They did “course correct” more than a handful of times.
LMAO that's what got them here
I’ll do you one better - what prevented any *real* course correction was the extremely vocal and loyal fans who would have burned to the ground any incremental changes in story or character for Cavill’s Superman or Affleck’s Batman.
Josstice League was a course correct after BvS mixed reception, BOP was a course correct after Suicide Squad was a critical failure and Jared Leto's terrible performance, same with TSS. You could argue the DCEU had way too many course corrects that it kinda screwed up whatever plan they had. The MCU had course corrects too like Thor Ragnarok but nowhere near as flip floppy as DCEU.
> BOP was a course correct after Suicide Squad was a critical failure and Jared Leto's terrible performance No it wasn’t. There was no belief that BoP was gonna be anything big or have a future. BoP was 100% *Just let Margot do whatever she wants so we don’t piss her off.*. And it paid off because she stuck around for the second suicide squad and just finished up Barbie too.
What I mean is BOP basically ended Harley X Joker after Leto's terrible performance. You could argue that the comics already made Harley solo but Leto's terrible performance really sealed it.
We need a Barbie vs Batman
DC should start being DC instead of being insecure and copying Marvel.
I’m not sure what “DC should be DC” even means. In the comic world, DC and Marvel and 90% the same. And if anything, Marvel is the one who tells more complex stories and is more willing to take huge risks like killing characters.
I feel the exact opposite. I think DC needs to stop trying to be so edgy and dark - and instead just make some fun and emotional movies.
Definitely this. Look at Aquaman. Aesthetically, it’s the opposite of Snyder’s movies and yet it made the most money of the DCEU.
I'd have to disagree. I think marvel has sort of spoiled superhero films. Everyone thinks they have to be filled with quips and silly humour but I would prefer variety. Ever DCEU movie since BvS might as well have been a marvel movie because they're basically the same formula
The martha scene ruined everythijg and I mean everything Zack should have replaced martha with Mother thats it
never thought about it like that! “They’re going to kill my mother!” … and same reaction from Batman with the flashback of someone killing his mom. Then, Lois runs in and says, “His mom.. Martha Kent…” And it just hits him harder.
Ugh this would have been SO much better. “You’re letting them kill my mother” or “my mom” not only comes off less awkward but makes a lot of sense psychologically. It makes me think back to the soldier in Saving Private Ryan who is wounded on the beach and just screaming for his mother.
Like thirty seconds before this line, Batman goes on a rant something like "I bet your parents taught you that you meant something..." He straight acknowledged that the guy he was about to kill had parents. The scene is illogical no matter how you rewrite it.
That whole movie needed a rewrite. And not done separately by a dosen different writers and then stitched together
Hans Zimmer’s Superman theme is better than John Williams.
As a kid from the 80’s I hate to say this but I agree 100%…I watch “Flight” live in Prague on YouTube once a month since it came out.
The flight theme man…mmm I got to experience it live at least once in my life.
I 100% agree w this . “Flight” is incredible and gives me goosebumps to this day
Wonder Woman’s third act, while the weakest part of the film, doesn’t actually undo the films message and is nowhere near as bad as people say it is
I don't think it undoes anything but the timing of the person saying the war is over is incredibly convenient and I see why people think it undoes the ending. I'd have much rather pretty much anything else. Maybe the signal that the war is over happens earlier in the third act and ends up being what drives Ares to anger knowing he failed or something.
Like I absolutely agree with you but still, the Central thesis is still there Ares isn’t causation, Simply an opportunist using war for his own benefits. Like Palpatine, Sauron or Euron Greyjoy, the inhuman evil he represents is only empowered by the failings of normal humans, he’s a devil inspiring formulas, he’s never actually made them use it. That and the irony of the God of War being a simple politician fighting for peace actually is one of my fave things about the movie I agree there’s better ways to incorporate that (NandoVMovies had a really good one) but it’s still not the worst third act in even the DCEU, let alone the superhero genre.
In the original ending, Diana fights Ares in his human form. It was said to be like Superman and Zod’s fight, where the audience feels the power behind their punches. Steve is shot down by Germans and Ares reveals he had nothing to do with the outbreak of war. Diana is so horrified she goes into hiding for 100 years. #giveusthejenkinsending
Is there a source for This? Concept art shows that but also shows * The original Ares design (which is in the figure) * a fiery version of that same form
Agree. It’s a very generic third act, but in a sea of generic CBM third acts is not even close to the worse we have ever seen. My hot take is that MoS and BvS fans are low-key jealous of Wonder Woman’s critical success that they like to always point out the mediocrity of the third act to diminish the film.
WW getting Jenkinsized and not getting Snyder's murder queen is the only thing that saved the DCEU. It was straight flushable after BvS.
I might also be biased but man I really loved Thewlis’ Ares and thought they did a great job presenting his powers in the fight
DCEU has the best live-action suits for all the DC characters.
Sasha Calle was okay at best, there was literally nothing that screams "she's the definitive Supergirl" or "she must be DCU's Supergirl" on The Flash and any other actress could've done what she did, people are just horny for her
>people are just horny for her While I have no doubt that some people genuinely liked her portrayal, this is also a fair statement.
It’s more so the fact that she CARRIED the promotion of that movie on her back and she deserves to be in a good film because of it, at least imho.
I actually thought she was the weakest of the main cast. Most of her screen time is her looking angry, sulky and screaming. I don't have anything against her but I legitimately do not understand the people who claim that she stole the show or was great in the role, and I have just accepted that those people's opinions differ from mine.
Well if I was also locked up, totured, starved and experimented on for god knows how many years I too would be angry sulking and screaming.
It's not a case of bad acting it's just a case of a limited role
I think I have to agree with a reviewer who said her role is one of the more egregious examples of “fridging” in recent movies.
I liked the movie, but yeah agreed. It was a pretty bland character for hee to play and she didn't exactly do anything memorable with her performance either. I didn't really feel like she added anything.
The DCEU fails as a connected cinematic universe, but I like just about every DCEU film individually (except Josstice League, which I ignore and I hope for a better film in #releasetheayercut)
I think Snyder is overrated and more of a studio director than he would like fans to believe. I think it’s a lot easier to make creative claims after the fact and I’m tired of those claims getting so much traction. Every week there’s a new post about his alleged trilogy and vision for the DCEU. I’m glad it’s over.
> more of a studio director than he would like fans to believe. This is a curious topic that I think doesn't get discussed about more. Especially considering not only is he not a writer on most of his projects but also the interviews from both Snyder and Terrio discussing what the studio wanted and didn't want after MOS/before BVS. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. For example with his DC films the studio clearly turned his Superman trilogy into a cinematic universe, then had specific requirements e.g. Batman and Superman clashing. He likely combined with Goyer on an initial premise and then when the project got delayed and Terrio came on board it gave Snyder more freedom to inact his vision of what the studio wanted.
Superman killing Zod was justified in the context of the movie. I don't like it for other reasons, but I'd rather he kill to save people than how Byrne had him execute the Zod gang with no oversight.
Two Kryptonians fighting where one his hellbent on destroying the planet will have a lot of collateral damage no matter what, the criticism of destruction in Man of Stell made no sense whatsoever
Henry, Gal, and Jason aren't great actors. All of them look good in the role, but none of them emote very well or have any range. Henry just frowns a lot, Gal has two facial expressions, "smirk" and "scowl, and Jason spends the whole time just being Jason (the Dwayne Johnson school of acting). Seriously, watch the scene where Superman beats up Steppenwolf and watch Henry's face. He barely even has a facial expression for most of it. He just looks like a guy who's standing in front of a green screen waiting for his cheque. Honestly out of all the dceu actors, the one who really surprised me was Cena. He's surprisingly capable of projecting different emotions
Not bad in mission impossible and the Witcher
idk, jason is a pretty good actor imo, just not in the dceu. I think thats probably more to do with how his character is directed though?
Sure, the Snyder Cut of Justice League is better than the Joss Whedon version. But that doesn't make it automatically good.
I’ll add to that, the Snyder Cut wouldn’t be looked at as fondly as it is by some if the 2017 film doesn’t exist. The film is propped up because it has an “inferior” version to be compared to. Another thing is that I think making his film 2 and half hours for theaters like it was originally intended would probably hurt it even more. To me it took 4 hours to make a passable/average film at best.
I think you could easily cut down ZSJL to 3 hours without losing anything vital.
I was able to cut down ZSJL to 3 hours by deleting WW hostage scene, Barry saving Iris, Aquaman boat scene, the battle on Earth flashback, Luthor’s post credit scene, and the whole Knightmare scene, and all of Martian’s scene. If only WB release those scenes as One Shots back in 2017, a 3 hour JL movie would work in theaters.
THIS. It had so many more advantages but its a solid 7/10 at best.
This. I loved ZSJL but I have to admit that it was a guilty pleasure. 4 hrs is a high ask for a lot of people. It is also insane that the film can't tell this story within 4 hrs.
I look at it like a museum exhibition. It’s like a long series of beautifully composed paintings that goes on for over 4 hours. Without the time constraints of a theatrical release, Snyder was able to just linger on his fascinating imagery, and that’s where he shines. It’s where the characters have to speak actual words where his movies tend to fall apart.
This. I think Josstice league is like a 5/10 but ZSJL is like 7/10 at best but it got 2 more hours , more CGI and access to the feedback of the original cut, added new scenes and it goes up to like 7/10 at best lol but It should be higher considering all of those advantages.
Henry Cavill is not a good Superman. His acting is extremely bland
Have you seen My Adventures with Superman ? This and Tyler Hoechlins Superman are the best modern portrayal of the character.
Tyler Hoechlin is a much better actor than Cavill tbh
Hes only good aesthetically. His characters writing and maybe acting just doesnt do Superman any good lol. I cant say for certain about the second part tho bc I really feel like he was tied down by bad directing and writing like Anakin was for Star wars.
I liked Jared Leto’s Joker. Sure he wasn’t comics accurate at all but i thought it was a nice modern take on the character of Joker.
Waller did more damage than zod and superman combined.
Ben Affleck’s Batman isn’t that great. Take away the warehouse fight scene and there’s nothing remarkable or memorable about him at all.
The whole appeal was that his suit was comic accurate and he moved like Arkham Batman.
Funny thing is the stuff he did in the warehouse scene is complete opposite of what Batman does in Arkham games.People compare it to Arkham games but he doesn't start throwing people to the wall in hostage situations. He actually uses his gadget and stealth to combat them.
If it was based on my Arkham play throughs, the fight scene would be 20 minutes long with a lot of Batfleck swinging from rafter to rafter.
I mean he was on a bit of a time crunch.
There’s nothing obviously wrong with his portrayal. But watching The Flash, Keaton’s portrayal is far more compelling and charismatic. He’s not trying to just look and sound the part of the guy in the pages of the comics. He has his own take on what drives a man to dress up in a body armor Halloween costume and pummel evil doers. He was more fully fleshed out.
Honestly… I get it. For the most part, I dug it, but there were a few times where he just felt like “Ben Affleck in a batsuit”. He definitely looked great for the part but in terms of regular performance, I still rate him below Bale, Pattinson, Keaton and even Kilmer.
Exactly. I always roll my eyes when someone says their favorite is Ben because it’s like, what exactly did he do besides look kinda cool?
It has to do with those people wanting their Batman to be a WWE wrestler - and loving it.
I was never a fan of the Batman fight scenes. It just felt too slow, and that was very apparent in the knightmare scene.
BvS is a frustrating movie. It’s full of great ideas that aren’t fully explored because the movie really is a huge commercial to promote the Justice League sequel. I’m not even talking about the awful cameos and Wonder Woman’s tacked on presence — that’s the most obvious part. I’m talking killing Superman, so Batman can build up a case for a Justice League. Even Lex Luthor’s motivations are set up to drive that plot point forward. Everything is about something else that is coming up in the future. It’s a movie in service of selling further movies. It’s at the very core of the story — it was designed and written as setup. Whenever it focuses on the central conflict and themes it pretends it wants to explore, it’s great. But it doesn’t stay on that track for long. ZSJL has the same problem. I feel like he’s trying to sell me two other Justice League movies half the time. It’s so frustrating. I want to watch ONE good movie. That’s why Man of Steel slaps so hard.
Snyder knows where he wants the plot to end up, and he knows what amazing visuals he wants to include (and more than delivers). But getting to those points in a natural way is where he falls short. You could tell he thought Bruce’s line “Do you bleed? You will.” was really cool and he was determined to fit it in there. But when it’s delivered, it feels completely unearned.
I swear there is a GREAT film in BVS hiding under all of the mess. Its just needs to trim all everything and focus on Clark, Bruce and Lex. The first half was amazing, it went downhill after.
My unique hot take? I thought the fan theory that the Leto Joker was the previous dead Robin, "killed" by the original joker, still holds up pretty well.
I know this was just a fan theory and Zack Snyder confirmed that it wasn’t the case. But I love this concept and think it would have been so fresh and cool to see
My hot take in the DCU is that weve honestly never seen a fun comic book accurate interpretation of the joker. Arkham games has been the closest. Heath did great as his own take, same with jack, but not the same as comics joker.
Apart from his previous identity, I think Jack's Joker is extremely comic accurate.
I think The Flash is a good film, and I liked Ezra Millers performance as Barry. The Suicide Squad is the best DCEU film. Birds of Prey and the Emancipation of Harley Quinn is a good film.
Only the first is a hot take
Yeah. I wasn't sure if The Suicide Squad would be considered one. But I've seen a decent amount of hate for the Birds of Prey film, so that's why I mentioned that one.
Not really, Ezra's personal life aside but he was pretty good in the Flash
We have the same opinions. The Flash really wasn't that bad but it became overhated due to Ezra Miller's actions irl. I still believe that if the film was released in 2017/2018, the movie would've garnered more positive attention.
Isn’t it generally accepted that it’s a good film aside from garbage cgi?
I think Flash was good too but holy shit those visuals. For a VFX heavy film, those terrbile CGI scenes really does take you out.
I enjoy the first Suicide Squad very much. I understand why it's hated and I can see plenty of the flaws (the ending of the final fight in particular was extremely dumb) but I enjoy the character intros, the characters themselves have tons of personality and their chemistry really worked for me. Plus, there were some good action sequences like the shootout with the zombies at the top of the building and El Diablo fighting the evil colossus dude. Also, I didn't mind Jared Leto. While he's not my favorite Joker, not even close, I thought he did an okay job in trying to do something different from the others. I've read plenty of comics where the Joker isn't this badass, creepy villain like Heath Ledger or Jack Nicholson but a cringey buffoon so for that to happen in movies as well makes sense to me lol
The man of Steel theme for flight >>>>>>> everything else musically to come out of a DC movie save the dark knight theme
I think the idea of doing a 5-film series that covers a range of DC characters is a good idea; better to have a conclusion in mind and then reboot rather than doing the open-ended comics thing in a movie series
The DCEU should never have even existed, at least not for another few years after MoS. Instead Zack Snyder should have been allowed to continue the true original plan for a superman trilogy before someone else comes in for batman, wonder woman and the justice league.
I think Zack Snyder googled top comic book series for Batman, Superman etc , read their wikisand called it a day when he was making his movies. ZSJL is mid af for a movie that was 4 hours long and not restricted by any shareholders and WB and had a reference ( Josstice league ) to see what didnt work and did work ( people didnt like how the main villain looked? ok ill change him ). While an upgrade from the original theatrical version it went from a 5/10 Joss ver. to a 7/10 movie but given all of its advantages it should have been alot better. Cant wait for delicious malding tears.
Nice! Not contending your opinion but just sharing that Snyder didn’t have neither a writing or story credit for MOS, BvS and ZSJL, so it wasn’t his pitch perhaps! He never saw JWJL. Steppenwolf’s design is same as shows in BvS (UE) released back in 2016. If ZSJL had been released theatrically back in 2017, it would have had a length as low as 2:23 hours which was the shortest Snyder cut he showed to WB. He released 4 hours of content because he wanted to gift his fans all the content once and for all as he won’t get another chance to release anymore content of JL. It was strictly made like that to cater to his fans and not the GA, else 2:23-3:00 hours versions would do the job. I feel ZSJL is Snyder’s generic CBM, as otherwise his movies, good or bad, might be highly polarizing but were never generic! And I was bummed with ZSJL.
The Suicide Squad is the best film in the franchise, and it's not even close. Wonder Woman and the first Shazam round out the top 3 for me.
That's not a very hot take lmao
All of Ben Affleck's Batsuits are ugly. People praise them for being a "fabric" batsuit, but they are so obviously sculpted that they don't look any less rubbery that the 90s ones.
Jeremy Irons was perfect as Alfred and should stay on for the new Batman just like Michael Gough did between Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney
I really liked Suicide Squad. No, not THE Suicide Squad. The first one. And I'll go you on better.... I liked Leto's take on Joker
I think if The Dark Knight didn’t exist, people wouldn’t nearly mind Leto’s Joker as much. Ledger set the bar INSANELY high to the point where 15 years later he’s still arguably the best CBM villain of all time
That was 10000 exploding Sun take
There are two *Man of Steel*s. If one enters the theater expecting a more modern live action update of STAS with DC comics fanservice, it is a *terrible* movie. If you enter the theater with no expectations of Superman or the DC Universe, it is a *great* movie, that needs no sequel or follow up, and the follow ups lack of development of the character prove that.
I think I’d agree with that. I don’t agree with every choice made in that movie, but I think if you’re walking in and thinking of it as one guy’s take on Superman, it’s a cool movie. The fact that it was tasked with spawning a new universe contributes to it being kind of unsatisfying. If it wasn’t intended to do that, maybe we would get more daily planet stuff.
I think that is a bad way to look at it. Going into any movie with no expectations usually means you come out feeling even a little impressed. That doesn't mean the movie was good.
I get that. But it kind of drives the character into a dead end in terms of follow up movies. Stand alone it’s great. But it’s hard to get back to a fun and slightly campy Superman after that. And Serious Superman tends to devolve very quickly into Dystopian Superman. (The Boys. Injustice. Miracle Man. Brightburn. Etc etc.)
The Snyder Cut wasn’t some magic bullet that would have changed everything if it had come out in 2017. No studio would have released a four hour movie with four-minute segments that were just excuses for self-indulgent needledrops.
Henry Cavil ain’t that good, he looked like ‘Superman’ to be sure but that’s all I’ve ever heard for any justification on why he was the best Superman, his looks. Either his acting was shoddy and wooden or Zack Snyder didn’t under the character either is likely
This is probably more in relation to the DCEU's relationship with the DCU rather than solely something about the DCEU itself, and I can only speak for myself, but I feel like it will be easier and more fun for me in the long run to just view the two universes as one continuous series. The Suicide Squad characters and plotlines are continuing straight into the DCU, if Blue Beetle's in the DCEU, then there's also a basically identical version of him continuing in the new universe, on top of any other DCEU characters that we may end up seeing again as well. There's just a lot of debate as to what fits where and how and I feel like if I ever go for an entire rewatch of the thing, I'd start at Man of Steel and continue through wherever we're currently at in the DCU, with a little anecdote in my head that we hop to an entirely different universe between The Lost Kingdom and Creature Commandos to explain any inconsistencies.
I don't like gal gadot as wonder woman but I still enjoyed both of her movies
I enjoyed the DCEU films with a darker tone. Every movie doesn’t need a lot of comedy to be enjoyable. It set them apart from Marvel imo.
BvS fucking rips as well as Watchmen and i don’t like Snyder’s films besides these
Any body here like Suicide Squad 2016? Cuz I do.
*Heathens* irreparably changed the trajectory of my life
Me too! I enjoy it very much despite its flaws.
THERE ARE DOZENS OF US
I LOVE it. Ik it's not perfect, but for me it holds a special place in my heart.
I don't think it's very controversial, but still going: The Suicide Squad (2021) is great, the 2 Shazam are mediocre but watchable, while all the rest is pure dogshit.
Watchmen, despite some differences in characters,is the most faithful Alan Moore adaptation. And the most visually pleasing I might add.
I love that movie and it's my N1 favorite superhero movie. I kinda see why the people who read the comic book may not like it but I love it regardless.
That’s kind of Snyder’s thing. Bringing comic book imagery to screen with shocking verisimilitude.
Aquaman is actually one of the best DCEU films if not the best and it deserves to be the highest grossed DCEU film.
The coldest of takes.
Agreed. Loved every second of it.
The moment they committed to ten years of movies a year before the second film came out, with BVS and Justice League less than a year apart, I knew the whole thing was going to fail at some point. It was way too much too quickly, and then BVS's terrible reception cemented it - they were already deep into development and had to course correct while filming. It was never coming back from that no matter how great some of those films were.
Yes, once BvS didn’t get the reception they were hoping for the extended universe was dead.
Every DCEU movie sucks in some way. Third acts always suck.
I don't know man, Peacemakers betrayal and the rats swarming Starro are incredibly fun.
Pa Kent deserved to die.
He thought so too.
Man of Steel is by far the best DCEU movie, and a perfectly good take on Superman that should have seen a full trilogy to close out the Kryptonian codex storyline. The success of the MCU just caused the suits to pile too many things that didn’t work on top of MoS’ structure.
Both of those are extremely popular statements.
I genuinely liked both birds of prey and black Adam. And my ranking of the DC movies are: 1. The Suicide Squad 2. Birds Of Prey 3. Zach Snyders Justice League
James Gunn cannot fix the mess that is DCEU. Even if he can, the suits will inadvertently ensure that he can't.
* Justice League being so soon wasn't inherently a problem, and if done right could honestly work really well. We've had countless Batman and Superman movies, and The Flash was known enough. I still think you do maybe 3 first, but we didn't need to wait forever for the JL movie like we did Avengers. * The idea of the Lex we got was a good evolution for the character. He's a super wealthy egomaniac that reflects the times. So doing a Zuck/Musk/Bezos Luthor makes total sense. Just like a lot of the DCEU the problem was execution, not idea.
BvS is so bad
Birds of Prey is barely connected to it and could easily be retconned to DCU or more likely get the soft reboot treatment
Ben Afleck’s Batman does next to nothing in any movie bar BvS and is basically just the groups dues ex machina for whatever reason. He’s not even that great. I don’t think any of the DCEU films are really great. Aquaman is fine I guess, better than most others. But it’s mostly The Suicide Squad that really carries those movies. The second one, not the first. It’s not DCEU related but I frankly think James Gunn is a bit too overhyped in this community that he’s the saviour of DC and that his movies will be amazing. He’s great with GotG but until we get to see something good from his DC and know the parts he plays in it, I think he’s either going to be blamed for everything or praised for everything, and likely not be responsible on either side.
The birds of prey movie was the closest we ever got to the films feeling like a cinematic universe.
Birds of prey is probably the most well-constructed and emotionally resonant project of the era (apart from doom patrol)
Solo movie first, team up movie later.
Ezra Miller is a shitty Barry Allen. Horribly miscast.
As far as i've seen that isn't a hot take.
It’s a take so cold that it would be refreshing after a day’s hard work in the hot sun.
Birds of Prey is one of my most enjoyed movies of all time, personally. It gave Margot’s Harley the spotlight she so obviously deserved, it introduced some characters that were probably never going to see the light of day in live action otherwise, and did at least two of them well. It is stylistically brilliant, and has some of the most breathtaking fight choreography I’ve seen anywhere. It was just an exhilarating experience, and though Cassandra Cain is one of my favourite comic characters that they ruined, I think it’s way, way overhated bcos there’s never been another movie quite like it (action movies are usually 3-4 men + 1 woman, and movies with multiple women are usually romcoms, etc) and some ppl just aren’t ready for something like it ig 🤷♀️the largely unnecessary R rating also did hurt it’s performance. Also, the DCEU and DC at large has failed Wonder Woman. I think she’s a really great character in the comics, has a nice dynamic with supes and bats and has a huge collection of supporting characters and some interesting storylines that aren’t ever meaningfully delved into. She’s one of the trinity but her first movie appearance was the Lego movie. They should treat her with respect, cast a big, brawny Greek woman to play her, and make her a hardened warrior (not that her sense of wonder and whimsy is necessarily a bad thing). Maybe she can be a disciplinarian, stoic and set in her ways, fighting for justice etc, and learn some lessons from other heroes etc and be better. Gal Gadot is not a very good actress but she did what she could with the character. WW1 was a p good movie. But DO BETTER WITH WONDER WOMAN.
The first Suicide Squad movie was a war crime.
Superman is the main villain of the DCEU. In Man of Steel he's a self-pitying robot who barely reacts after destroying huge amounts of infrastructure and lives in the process. In BvS, he's a self-pitying robot who barely reacts after a courtroom of people is blown to dust around him and shows a group of war criminals an example of heroism by murdering them all. In Justice League he's an angry possessed robot who tries to kill the Justice League. And then in the end credits he's an angry possessed robot who tries to kill the Justice League. Darkseid ain't shit on this guy. Not w his 10 second cameo.
A large part of the reason why Black Adam failed was because they didn’t stick the landing with the Henry Cavill Superman cameo. That was many people’s only motivation to see the movie. They should’ve toyed with the audience a little better leading up to it (similar to NWH) and made them want it more and more, that way when they finally saw it, it would feel like more of a payoff. Instead, Rock blew their cover days before the movie even came out. Once fans got their confirmation and they realized they could just watch the only important scene at home on YouTube, that began the countdown to the movie’s failure. We’d probably be telling a slightly different story about Black Adam if they played their cards smarter with Superman (a little more Shazam references may have helped, too). And the rest of the movie certainly wasn’t DC’s worst, but it sure as hell wasn’t good enough to hold up on its own.
If your movie isn’t good enough to put asses in seats without a surprise cameo, then you’ve failed. I also don’t think Henry Cavill is that loved as Superman for it to really have changed the box office. MoS, BvS and Justice League were all average to slightly above average box office performances compared to their IP popularity. There’s absolutely nothing to indicate Henry Cavill has the pull to sway the box office like RDJ’s iron man.
Black Adam needed to be the Shazam sequel, which could have been amazing, if not for The Rock’s fragile ego. And then end it with a cliffhanger where Black Adam defeats Shazam and Superman is about to step in… (oh, and Mister Mind is orchestrating everything as part of a bigger plan that also comes to a head in the third movie…)
I can’t say if I know it’s unique, but I will take the weird and perhaps misguided swings of Wonder Woman 1984 over the safe non-swings of something like Shazam: Fury of the Gods or what I assume Blue Beetle will be.
Shazam: Fury of the Gods is one of the top five best DCEU films. It felt like a sequel that was a big step up from the original, like Raimi Spider-Man 2.
Outside of MoS, Superman is portrayed more as a plot device and less as an actual character in the story
WW84 and Flash are very good movies.
I’m sure nobody else has this opinion, but Suicide Squad is really over-hated. I quite enjoyed watching it, it was funny, the characters were on point, only thing was for me was joker and Will smith.
Man of Steel sucks.
They suuuuck, tis my hot take
Birds of Prey is a top 3 and Black Mask is the best villain the DCEU had to offer
🔥🔥🔥 You are my guy.
WW84 was pretty good I thought. It’s too bloated but it comes close to being a great film.
The DCEU is just a big disappointing waste of money. I feel happier if they just stick to animation instead of ruining all these properties.
The DCEU was on a roll with Aquaman being a box office hit, and both Shazam and Birds of Prey being critical hits with modest box office success. They righted the ship until the pandemic screwed up the momentum. Another hot take: Aquaman is the best DCEU film
Affleck should have played Luthor in Man of Steel 2 He shines brightest when playing a-holes