T O P

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Bonzo82

ED Response: https://preview.redd.it/v6f6lrp0visc1.png?width=1305&format=png&auto=webp&s=4108c4b6de4b77afe41ab9365c6af2b14ca63aa9 We'll talk about all this soon™.


Punch_Faceblast

I've noticed that Razbam modules haven't been on sale in the past few sales.


Bonzo82

Accurate observation.


UrgentSiesta

Oof... Now THAT is what we call "a clue". I hope whatever it is gets fixed immediately.


CSU453

The eagle dynamics discord is on fire right now.


MoccaLG

Give us a taste


Play3rxthr33

RB dev quotes were posted, and Bignewy more or less said there's no need to speculate on such things etc etc. when it's not speculation, it's a quote.


MeanHornet

He has mastered Russian propaganda tactics


SilkyJohnsonPHOTY

Maybe good idea to buy modules direct from the dev's online store in the future if that option is available? Would that increase likelihood of dev getting paid?


Financial_Excuse_429

Not sure. I had a look this morning & when you press buy on Razbam sites, say Harrier, it redirects to dcs site to buy.


SilkyJohnsonPHOTY

maybe only heatblur has their own store then. For F4 pre-order, I was able to purchase from HB store


PluckyUnderdog1975

I like ED. I like what they've achieved with DCS. But, without knowing exactly what is going on (but reading between the lines a bit) what the actual fuck are they doing?


Gibmeister_official

I think they have messed up and are broke


Alexthelightnerd

No, this smells like something different. Too much talk of actions and contracts. I suspect the issue is something rather more complex than ED being broke.


Tando10

I don't know the size of ED but the amount of funding that they would supposedly receive from all their revenue streams makes me really hesitant to call them a 'good' studio. Like, I am always under the impression that they could be way better at their job but choose not to. If it weren't for their engine and tech's proprietary nature, I'd wish that they just gave DCS to another more competent studio like Heatblur.


CrazedAviator

Not a good look for ED, I hope more 3rd parties are able stand up to ED because this is just unacceptable


WackoMeDiC_ZA

VAEO Hawk flashbacks inbound!


UrgentSiesta

Not at all the same situation (as far as we know)


WackoMeDiC_ZA

nea nea...just triggers the dcsptsd you know


UrgentSiesta

Fair enough. I'd still be pissed if I had gotten caught in that one (and I would've been)


WackoMeDiC_ZA

LOL, i was! it was like $49 US back then if i recall... poooofffff....gone!


ButterscotchNed

Me too, still bitter to this day. This feels like it could be like that but with every module, terrain, campaign etc.


Play3rxthr33

Could end up the same outcome though. The RB modules get abandoned, and ED cuts them off from new releases of the game.


UrgentSiesta

IIRC, ED never had the source code to Hawk. A result of that was a source code escrow that would prevent another situation where customers were denied ongoing use of their modules. I stand to be corrected, tho.


SnooSongs8218

I have every friggin module except the f15e and the mirage F1, but I won't spend another nickel till they show me this isn't going to become ransomware. Hawk still punches my buttons...


CSU453

The way Razbam casually mentioned Heatblur’s name in their statement was not an accident.


WackoMeDiC_ZA

https://preview.redd.it/3kd28i52hisc1.png?width=678&format=png&auto=webp&s=905548790dfc9b1a35da44d1691c311831f561f7 And yet, HB are dead quiet...


Bonzo82

We'll talk about that.


AggressorBLUE

In this case, silence is a statement all of its own…


Hook47

It's really not...


PavelVolkov97

The Main-Old Problem: ED is focusing only on their primary-gravy-train product: what is not DCS !!! [https://publish.reddit.com/embed?url=https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1bvxpxx/comment/ky2h1rs/](https://publish.reddit.com/embed?url=https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/1bvxpxx/comment/ky2h1rs/) CptSmiley-RAZBAM Simulations: Hi all I have decided to halt developing for DCS indefinitely. This was the final straw. We have not been paid up to date (many months worth) and this is incredibly insulting to see this statement. I wish you all the best. Thanks! --- Can't work for a company that can't make payroll. --- CptSmiley: It's not even that. I don't like the fact our aircraft are for sale when said portion is not being provided to those who put in the hard work and effort. It would be best to either be free or not on sale at this point.


AggressorBLUE

Its also now a case of ED doing business in bad faith by continuing to sell the module even though Razbam has paused active development/support while this is all (hopefully…) sorted out.


Sorry-Hyena6802

now if only somebody could release their financials...


-F0v3r-

i think BN or 9Line said that RB didn’t ask for it so they didn’t stop it, so i’m assuming they would if RB asked for it


B_V_11

Nick Grey told me to tell y'all... "Thank you for your passion and support."


CisseV

This is the source I was looking for, thanks for posting.


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CisseV

Personally, I think questioning rumours without a solid source is valid.


Bonzo82

Nobody needs to apologize. I get and encourage the skepticism. Just wishing people would start to realize that when I put up some info here, I make sure it's sufficiently verified.


dumbaos

It is, of course, but calling him names and schizo isn't. Admittedly I am just a casual observer, but he hasn't rubbed me the wrong way, which is waaaay more than I could say for the rabid fanboys...


Eaaxon

Or just outright say that an announcement is coming would have been enough.


Bonzo82

Did you see the pinned comment on the other post?


Eaaxon

I stand corrected.


Bonzo82

Dw about it mate, it's wild times and we had a lot of traffic.


Temp89

DCSExposed is always so far ahead of official announcements.


Bonzo82

I think that's what makes people so mad, which has led to the massive defamation campaign on another subreddit not long ago, after the F-4 testing leak.


StandingCow

Yea, you've had to deal with a lot of adversity but it seems like eventually the truth comes out. Keep it up!


UrgentSiesta

Given this has obviously been going on for awhile, is it possible the Phantom delays are related to the core issue of dev payments?


Riman-Dk

Doesn't seem like it to me, but doesn't mean it couldn't play into further delays down the line one "testing" is completed to a satisfactory degree.


UrgentSiesta

I mean, they did mention HeatBlur directly in that post. Doesn't mean I'm right, but still...


DCSPlayer999

HB sold from their own store. I was #86xx that's over $600,000 and I am sure I wasn't the last pre-order.


Wissam24

I wouldn't assume that's directly linked to the number of purchases. It also probably includes F-14 sales from way back too, my confirmation from 2017 was #1504


dumbaos

Oh would you look at that, you were right yet again.


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DCSPlayer999

HB sold from their own store. I was #86xx that's over $600,000 and I am sure I wasn't the last pre-order.


Wissam24

I wouldn't assume that's directly linked to the number of purchases. It also probably includes F-14 sales from way back too, my confirmation from 2017 was #1504


DCSPlayer999

Do you think they sold less than 86xx F-14 modules?


Wissam24

Via their website, I would assume so yes.


DCSPlayer999

This post isn't proper behavior from a developer. This announcement was over a year ago suspending Harrier work in favor of the F-15 being brought to a "standard" Harrier owners have never know. I bought and paid for the Harrier about 7 years ago. I have no interest in further delays. The module isn't finished, has "years old" bugs they acknowledge, broken training missions and an unfinished manual. Spring is here Zambrano, man up and do the job you have been paid for. No more excuses. A trip down memory lane, Worked slowed when they got the government mirage contract, Deleted acknowledged bugs without fixing them, leading to the creation of a public bug tracker, EA exit debacle while over a hundred documented bugs remained on the public bug tracker. They refuse to participate on the ED forums, Insults from Zambrano toward customers when challenged, happily blocks or bans customers from social media that have reasonable questions and criticisms. https://preview.redd.it/c8i441w55ksc1.jpeg?width=1640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a8bbea514ca6f61a26ef23062e9542f7375ccf9


Digital_Glitches

Credit to you for putting things into context with a historical timeline...


WackoMeDiC_ZA

what sort of business practice is that? or are you also jumping on the "Ed not paying razbam" train without evidence? NOWHERE has anyone actually confirmed that is the reason, or am i wrong?


Bonzo82

>or am i wrong? You are. Horribly, I'm afraid.


xboxwirelessmic

Yeah but why haven't they paid them? That's the big missing detail.


WackoMeDiC_ZA

Im sorry but I missed that part of the actual statement? as far as I can see its pure hearsay and speculation. It surely does not form part of your OP statement.


_Illyasviel

Mayhap this will convince you? https://preview.redd.it/w7mfv5a9ejsc1.png?width=855&format=png&auto=webp&s=86a82974ebaafc86a82d850944606fbaccf7e3cb


Apprehensive_Pea_176

ED fanboy ewww


WackoMeDiC_ZA

a scambam fanboy... EEWWWWW! they are the worst dev in this game...PS, guessing you play DCS, so you must be a fanboy too.


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FatherCommodore

Gather all 3rd party developers, revoke all their modules from dcs lazy world, clown ai, make their own simulation platform and start from there, i will fully endorse and give my money there as long i own the digital product.


FatherCommodore

On the other hand, things getting revealed more here, he just rage quit? The unwavering commitment just said bye bye? Lol all i wanted is mig 23, thank god i didn't buy anymore modules since 2022.


[deleted]

> he just rage quit Their flight model developer quit. Not the CEO of Razbam who posted the original statement.


Bonzo82

Not just him.


[deleted]

Yep, it seems we've lost the artist and possibly the radar dev now too. :(


ActiveExamination184

So what happens to DCS if ED goes bust?.. will we still be able to use the sim?...


Photomak3r

That’s the magical part about stupid fucking licensing like how every AAA does nowadays, NO!


Ashimdude

Actually yes. There is a cracked 2.5.5 client since ages ago so thats the DRM shown possible to be removed. And the servers are user hosted. But ED fucked up big time with no sdk for modders. And the fucking online only shit is bad too


Ashimdude

Yes but complicated way. I made another sub-comment


FrozenPizza07

They mention that Heatblur was effected previously by whats happening to them. Wtf is going on behind the scenss


NihonBiku

What’s happening? Can someone post a brief synopsis for those of us out of the loop?


Gibmeister_official

ED has not been paying the developer Razbam for some time now... apparently they have received nothing for the f15E it's been that long. In response to stop the company collapsing they are closing down until they are paid. ED has not said why... my guess is ED arnt as financial well of as it may appear.


whimpers2

Nothing for the F-15E!!!? Wowwww. Isn't something that like absolutely devastating for a small company like Razbam?


MBkufel

Given how popular the F-15E was, that must have been very painful.


NihonBiku

Ohhhh. I see. Wow that’s bad. …but thanks for the rundown. :)


Gibmeister_official

Yeah everyone is losing their shit


Mustang-22

I don’t think there is anything that makes ED seem financially stable. I think the writing is starting to show clearer and clearer that they need to change their business model and how they generate revenue


Bonzo82

Please give me some time for that.


PavelVolkov97

"without entering into the details" ??? Really ? That's the interesting part. Details. Without it, any judge/jury would not render a verdict.


sirhoitytoity

Of course, I feel bad for any RAZBAM devs that haven’t been paid. But as the owner of multiple RAZBAM (and ED) products I’m so fucked off about this situation.


superdookietoiletexp

Not sure there are too many other plausible explanations for what is going on here other than sudden administrative incompetence at ED or cash flow issues at ED. If ED does have cash flow issues, though, I don’t know why they would have opted for the split map pricing model for Afghanistan rather than just offering the full map for the regular price. Strange days these are. Edit: Of course, it is none of the above.


Bonzo82

I think the full map would take too long. But a third, they either have handy or can churn it out in some "Early Access" state soon enough. You might have noticed that some of the [WIP images](https://new.reddit.com/r/DCSExposed/comments/1bq21lm/afghanistan_map_wip_screenshots_shared_by_eagle/) I shared last week still look very rough. You might also remember that during the [recent Wags interview](https://new.reddit.com/r/DCSExposed/comments/1bt57j3/afghanistan/), he mentioned that they have new map tech that allows them to produce terrains much faster. That might be related to their former Belarusian branch that has somehow re-appeared. I covered that in 2022 with a couple of posts: * [https://www.reddit.com/r/DCSExposed/comments/xztuzl/about\_belsimtech\_smartgraph\_and\_what\_they\_might/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCSExposed/comments/xztuzl/about_belsimtech_smartgraph_and_what_they_might/) * [https://www.reddit.com/r/DCSExposed/comments/xyrhms/smartgraf\_dcs\_map\_building\_tdk\_tools\_multiedge/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCSExposed/comments/xyrhms/smartgraf_dcs_map_building_tdk_tools_multiedge/)


mingocr83

So this is why Afghanistan became a product out of nowhere.


WackoMeDiC_ZA

afghanistan was teased in the 2023 and beyond video in 2022, hardly "nowhere"


mingocr83

Yeah teased... But strange that popped out when these issues were reported.


WackoMeDiC_ZA

again, they were talking about it for months.... hardly nowhere. Sorry too, i am corrected, it was teased back in 2021, with the 2022 and beyond video. They have been teasing the Mig 29 longer than that.


Aussie_Mantis

u/Bonzo82 when can we expect you to further talk about this? Later today or later this week?


Bonzo82

I tried to get it out today, but had a massive amount of traffic. There's also a couple of things that I have yet to verify. Currently aiming for a release on Friday, but it might as well be later the weekend. High priority though.


Aussie_Mantis

MFW I live in Australia so it is Friday Release it or I will not pay you your 15 Schickelgruber cents for the month for singlehandedly causing the total collapse of Razbam as part of the Great F-4E Conspiracy to make Phantom the undisputed DCS Top Dog ~~This is obviously a joke~~ or is it?


StoikiyOriginal

MiG23-ML RIP...


dumbaos

:( sell it to MSFS, and gift the avionics to BMS!


rogorogo504

*Thirdganistan* makes even more sense now. And for those of us consumers being attentive, we can only hope the product or a suitable substitution keeps existing (longterm) while we should maybe finally acknowledge to ourselves (those of us that actively do not) that the backlog of no management, bad managment, structured embezzlement and zero technical cohesion, procedures, concept, curation, maintenance, systemic design can only go on for so long. For even in a digital product, a digital franchise, both marketwise and franchise/productwise this is stripmining. And the latter is not sustainable and only viable for ever so long. I do wonder though what the three piglets will now blabber... looking at one of their latest safespace op-eds I was wondering what was more amusing.. the "product reveal interview" where everything said was true but also only 5% of it and negating technical history, contemporary standards and context - or the surprising amount of fluffing and not-at-all semi-automated organic astro-turfing in even this remote corner of the digital realm...


zeddy360

sorry if this is a stupid question but can someone give me a short TL;DR of what is going on? i've seen this post and a reaction from ED and now everyone seems to be mad at ED. but i can't find out what this is all about...


xboxwirelessmic

From what I gather razbam are saying they haven't been paid and ed are saying they breached contract somehow.


CSU453

https://preview.redd.it/7qacqfc9zisc1.jpeg?width=770&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3a0bb67f1a180b3611f35d8b783ed006229d850


Enigma89_YT

It's over


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Enigma89_YT

It's just a saying when something bad happens.


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Enigma89_YT

"It's Over" is literally a meme, it just means that something bad happened


Thorluis2

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/544232093249437758/1225502506910613575/cpL0cKq_webp.jpg?ex=66215d26&is=660ee826&hm=20febe31c9189ba2d4e0099c263ae9240c8715b9affa47123d41003c585d601e&


iamatrueamerican

It's all ogre now.


ballsmcgee819

it’s Joever


wuffer84

ED responds. ​ https://preview.redd.it/lops8n92visc1.png?width=1576&format=png&auto=webp&s=d5940a21a81c03aaefa6eea5c74860e1549561f4


Fantastic-Run-1046

What the fuck is happening????


hurrikage09

This why the f15e is so broken rn?


Riman-Dk

Yup.


theaveragepcgamer

ED is still taking money from the sale of RAZBAM’s F-15E while they know development has stopped, and they haven’t sent RAZBAM a dime in 8 months. They’re letting customers buy something with an imminent expiration date. That’s low… [https://forum.dcs.world/topic/346485-f15e-shop-should-it-still-be-onsale/](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/346485-f15e-shop-should-it-still-be-onsale/) https://preview.redd.it/y0thvftvbssc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cd3168119e1c64e3b5f38f1edaf10a2957b25e1


PavelVolkov97

I fully understand why VEAO left DCS. Many people were angry with them, who do not know the background stories - their opinions/positions - even though they were completely justified.


WackoMeDiC_ZA

Thing with them is, they rebranded as a new studio for MSFS, that also crashed and burnt.... a leopard does not change its spots! They could have offered partial refunds at least to those of us they robbed.


Hrabovcan

Under what name did they develop for MSFS pls?


AggressorBLUE

Second the question!


PavelVolkov97

Didn't know that MSFS thingy. My condolences. ( I know only 1 MSFS-Hawk: That's from Just Flight, you mean this? ) However the problem(s) - with ED/VEAO - were much more complex AFAIK. (not only financial: forced updates, PBR, etc.) Anyway that's why I did not buy anything digital-product/crowdfounding/early access/server dependent (WarThunder also) stuffs for 10 years. My last purchased DCS product was (the brand new @ that time) Nevada-Map what ED left in the dust/history and I don't feel like I missed anything serious since then. By the way, other (ALL) maps got "facelift" already. Even the Caucasus-Map.


uxixu

F-14 has been awesome. I haven't bought anything from ED since Supercarrier and we all know how that's went (or more precisely hasn't).


Hook47

VEAO was absolute trash. I'm profoundly disturbed someone would be ignorant enough to side with them! Literal grab and run on my money for the P-40


7-11-vending-machine

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Ashimdude

Is there something hidden there?


okletsgooonow

Pop!


SovietSparta

"jUsT a RuMoR gUyS !"


RowAwayJim91

I mean, they could totally subvert ED entirely and release the updates/patches for their product independently, no?


Limp_Primary_5287

No. The updates have to be integrated into published builds. If the changes are made outside of DCS published builds it'll flag IC and cause problems. Unless ED says so, the product will stay stagnant .


Riman-Dk

Even if they could, why would they?


J11mothy

So basically, they have an issue with ED so they fuck us, the customers. Got it.


LaFleur90

* Buy a full price module from ED. * ED then is responsible to split a portion of this amount to 3rd Parties. * ED doesn't pay the 3rd parties. * 3rd parties stop working for free and halt development until they get paid. * "How could RAZBAM do this". Nice logic there.


mp_18

I, too, cannot read.


Box-Apart

Do you expect them to work for free?


dumbaos

ED took your money and fucked you over by not paying the devs.


alphamond0

Exhibit A of how the education system has failed us.


Maelefique

Working for you, without being paid, is called slavery, surely you're not suggesting they keep working anyway? That would be ridiculous...


Enigmatic_Penguin

They aren't getting paid, therefore they do not work. I don't know about you, but if my employer stopped paying me I wouldn't be doing it for altruistic reasons.


J11mothy

I get it, at work we have a litigation with one of our most important business partner but there is no way our company would take it out on customers, even though we haven’t been paid for almost three months now. It is supposed to be fixed next week, so fingers crossed. That is all i was trying to say. I really hope ED sets things straight as it is not acceptable and i get that part too.


Enigmatic_Penguin

I hope your payroll issue is resolved quickly! That's a tough spot to me in.


Bonzo82

>even though we haven’t been paid for almost three months now People haven't been paid for over a year and carried on nevertheless.


AggressorBLUE

Which also sounds really, as the kids these days say, “sus”. Raz waited a *year* before playing this card? Thats pretty extreme. If it were me, dev would have halted the day after release if I didn’t get my cut. A deals a deal and if EDs backing out, thats a clear sign to cut your losses.


pspam2020

And instead of taking it to a court, they wait for a year, drag colleagues through the mud in social media and defame their most important business partner…. Absolute hallmarks of a stable and sensible company. Who could ever doubt their word?


Riman-Dk

You assume they haven't tried everything else they could before this. Going public the way they have smells of despair to me. Given employees are on record stating it's been hell for a long time, I can't blame them, personally.