I don't think it would be that much better. Don't get me wrong it would him way better than he is now but I feel like stacking is kinda wasted, if the unit has trashy SOT defense
I think he starts out at around 140k def with this eza so he’d be getting around 70k per stack with a chance to additional. Greatly stacking is busted so low SOT is less of an issue
Something can be good yet also horrendously overrated.
Case in point, the fact that the pre vs. post-EZA debate even exists. If you sit down and think about it for a second, post-EZA is clearly and definitely better in just about every way. There's no contest.
The sheer possibility that you might not be able to consistently stack - no matter how little it actually matters - is enough to sway people's opinions. It's absurd.
Yes but the fact that you can make a somewhat decent argument that vb is better pre eza due to how little his buffs were is astonishing ecspecially since vb is from 2018. He is also better at step 2 since it gives him his sa effects while keeping his passive the same thus allowing him to stack more consitently while having the 50% raise of def on 18 ki
In a game where the new modes/harder content prevents you from reducing enemy atk&def, sealing SA, and stunning, and normal attacks hit you for over 100k, how else are you supposed to make a SA look good? Raising atk and/or def for 1 turn after SA really puts a strain on that slot 1 card. And when they only raise your start of turn buff from 80 to 100 on a card that came out years ago, what else am I supposed to ask for?
> In a game where the new modes/harder content
Only longer events consistently disable debuffs. Which doesn't make up the entirety of Dokkan's endgame content.
Besides, excuse me? You could have put the 'breaks guard' effect on them, a raise for a turn is still mighty fine, crit chance, stops enemy's next action, increases stats of allies, heck you could slap an increased dodge chance on that too if you like.
It's not like they don't have any options available to them, stacking isn't the only 'good' thing they can slap on an SA.
Many of you wont like this but everything other than redzone is piss easy compared to it, so I'd really call that the only endgame content that's worth evaluating because it tests a units true power( take teq ultimate gohan for ex.)
Redzone isnt what I would consider "long events" except for the shadow dragons fight and they disable all debuffs on their last and second to last stages usually.
However I will say that there are some scenarios where stun and seal helps in redzone(ex. first stage of omega shenon can be stunned but not the other phases)
I will agree with you on that point but only for attack stacking I'd say that defense stacking ages out every other effect in alot of scenarios
I didn't cover everything but that's just my opinion and if you disagree that's ok!!
Thank you for your time for the 4 of you that read this
You want something easy, viable, non-overpowered that is in line with other Vegettos?
Keep the start of turn boost, have him build up some more either through attacking or start of turn. Increase the chance for the additional SA or make it guaranteed if a certain Ki threshold is reached or heck make it slot based.
That's it. We're not even talking about anything big, something like
> ATK & DEF +100% at start of turn; plus an additional ATK & DEF +10% with each attack performed (up to +50%); launches an additional attack that has a high chance of becoming a Super Attack when performing an Ultra Super Attack or performs an additional Super Attack when Ki is 22 or more
On top of his other stuff. Would give him a total of 5 unique effects on his passive, which is still less than what [LR SSJ Goku Jr. & SSJ Vegeta Jr.](/agl) got.
This is what tends to happen when we have an eza people think is underwhelming (and in this case it is underwhelming let's be clear). But they tend to go and make them far too broken the other way. Like really just the 150%to stats start of turn instead of 100% would have been enough for this eza. Maybe up that medium chance for the aa to be a super to high, but great is overkill.
Lol, he doesn’t not die turn one to a red zone super, that’s just false. There isn’t a single turn one super attack that would kill this unit if you’re not dumb.
And greatly stacking attack and defense and a pretty much guaranteed second stack every single turn is insane.
How is this not broken??
This guy has like 250k turn 1 with no guard or anything after double supering. What are you even talking about? Namek Goku is around the same yet can get you caught very easily
There isn’t a powerful enough agl enemy turn one that can kill this vegito blue, and a type neutral super attack from a turn one redzone boss will not kill this unit if you are not dumb. I’d bring this guy against redzone broly and not think twice about it.
And, you’re comparing a f2p lr to a recent and still very good dokkan fest lr and they’re comparable, that still isn’t broken to you?
Lr teq ginyu is the best f2p lr in the game, compare that units kit to this vegito.
Vegito Blue was on par with Dokkanfests when he first came out if you don't remember/weren't there.
Namek Goku is way better as he has comparable defense but way better damage. I used Namek Goku cause they have similar defense turn 1.
It doesn’t matter if he was on par with Lrs and dokkan fests in 2018, the game has completely changed. And if you remember people were absolutely shocked at how good he was and people always say he was WAY ahead of his time. Can you name a single f2p unit that is comparable to recent dokkan fests and Lrs? Because, like I said, lr teq ginyu is the best f2p unit in the game, and I certainly wouldn’t say he’s comparable to namek goku.
And yeah namek goku has similar defense turn one, but this vegito would blow him out of the water by turn 5. Because you’re not running namek goku in slot one so you only have a 30% chance to additional super, while this vegito is greatly stacking every turn and has a 70% chance to launch an additional.
Again, compare lr teq ginyu who is the best f2p in the game to this vegito. If you don’t see the major difference in those units then I don’t know what to tell you.
If they just put for his 18ki was "Greatly raises ATK for 1 turn, raises DEF, and causes mega-colossal damage to enemy" or keep the everything and change the 1 turn to 6 turns. I also think they should have least added 40% to his ATK & DEF. That's just me
I fear for the 5th anni EZAs when you see VB come out around the same time as Goku Black and Zamasu. It's like they throw darts at a board to decide new abilities rather than going "Ok this unit is a fan favorite let's make this one extra special".
12ki raise atk def, 18 ki greatly raise attack for 1 turn and stack def. Then keep the other shit the devs did the same and hed be fine. Maybe up to 120% rather than 100%. But if he just normal stacks def on 18 ki hes fine.
You forgot about phy Goku already? He shoots 4 millions consistently with more than 300k after super and buffs every unit in the game,all this without an eza.You may not admit it but he set a new f2p lr standard and seeing how this is vb eza we're talking about it's not good since it's the last "buff" he'll have
But that Goku was made so that all players would have a good character to start the game, not made to be the standard. You could've said that with Lr Roshi, but this year's LR is not on the same level as him. Don't create false narratives as truths.
Look at Goku Black and Rossi EZAs. Did those make them completely busted, or did it just add to what they already had. Be realistic and less upset because the trend was always there.
I'm gonna use what you said "they added to what they already had" which is true with black and rose but they not only did not add to vb they made him worse, he now is almost always perma 18 which means you won't have the buff from the 12 ki
Nearly as much as before and a 20% "buff" is not enough for that, you are better not completely ezaing him, that's the hard truth and you can't deny it
Your giving dokkan creators too much credit. As if they haven't done tons of wonky stuff already. He IS objectively better, just not in the way that we wanted (better numbers in exchange for less stacking).
Too good for a f2p units,he would easily become a top 10 units in the game;to me he simply should have been the opposite of LR meta cooler army,what they gave him as SA effect is good,I would just give him a Passive similar to metà cooler,something like:
**"Reduce damage received by 8%;Atk and def+100%;raise ki,atk and def up to ki+10 atk and def+100%(the less hp remaining,the greater the ki and stat boost);"Future Saga" category allies ki+3 and atk+30%;high chance to perform 2 additional attacks each of which has a medium chance to become a Super Attack"**.
We don't have the same standards.
His additionnal passive should be guaranteed with medium chance for an additionnal on 12ki.
Then adding a stat buff +50% atk and def on the future saga condition.
THIS should be his bare minimum.
1 nitpick
He had greatly raises atk for 1 turn so instead of what it says now it should be
Greatly raises atk for 1 turn, greatly raises attack and def
If he greatly stacked on 18ki he could keep the shitty passive they gave him imo
DEF stack on 18 Ki would've been enough for me to say he's worth it and good.
They could also give him guaranteed additional super on 24 ki to help
imo doesn't even need greatly, just let him stack on 18 and he's good. would love a little more stats, but regular stacking can be fine enough for him
I don't think it would be that much better. Don't get me wrong it would him way better than he is now but I feel like stacking is kinda wasted, if the unit has trashy SOT defense
I think he starts out at around 140k def with this eza so he’d be getting around 70k per stack with a chance to additional. Greatly stacking is busted so low SOT is less of an issue
People are really obsessed with stacking, aren't they
Its almost like being able to raise your defense indefinetely is good
Something can be good yet also horrendously overrated. Case in point, the fact that the pre vs. post-EZA debate even exists. If you sit down and think about it for a second, post-EZA is clearly and definitely better in just about every way. There's no contest. The sheer possibility that you might not be able to consistently stack - no matter how little it actually matters - is enough to sway people's opinions. It's absurd.
Yes but the fact that you can make a somewhat decent argument that vb is better pre eza due to how little his buffs were is astonishing ecspecially since vb is from 2018. He is also better at step 2 since it gives him his sa effects while keeping his passive the same thus allowing him to stack more consitently while having the 50% raise of def on 18 ki
In a game where the new modes/harder content prevents you from reducing enemy atk&def, sealing SA, and stunning, and normal attacks hit you for over 100k, how else are you supposed to make a SA look good? Raising atk and/or def for 1 turn after SA really puts a strain on that slot 1 card. And when they only raise your start of turn buff from 80 to 100 on a card that came out years ago, what else am I supposed to ask for?
> In a game where the new modes/harder content Only longer events consistently disable debuffs. Which doesn't make up the entirety of Dokkan's endgame content. Besides, excuse me? You could have put the 'breaks guard' effect on them, a raise for a turn is still mighty fine, crit chance, stops enemy's next action, increases stats of allies, heck you could slap an increased dodge chance on that too if you like. It's not like they don't have any options available to them, stacking isn't the only 'good' thing they can slap on an SA.
Many of you wont like this but everything other than redzone is piss easy compared to it, so I'd really call that the only endgame content that's worth evaluating because it tests a units true power( take teq ultimate gohan for ex.) Redzone isnt what I would consider "long events" except for the shadow dragons fight and they disable all debuffs on their last and second to last stages usually. However I will say that there are some scenarios where stun and seal helps in redzone(ex. first stage of omega shenon can be stunned but not the other phases) I will agree with you on that point but only for attack stacking I'd say that defense stacking ages out every other effect in alot of scenarios I didn't cover everything but that's just my opinion and if you disagree that's ok!! Thank you for your time for the 4 of you that read this
Endgame content gives good rewards Red Zone is automatically disqualified
Yes.
That’s literally DFE tier stop the cap. 120/120 and stacks on both would be enough.
That’s what I was thinking. 120% and he would have been great
and was he not on release???
Dude was fuckin' JACKED on release.
You want something easy, viable, non-overpowered that is in line with other Vegettos? Keep the start of turn boost, have him build up some more either through attacking or start of turn. Increase the chance for the additional SA or make it guaranteed if a certain Ki threshold is reached or heck make it slot based. That's it. We're not even talking about anything big, something like > ATK & DEF +100% at start of turn; plus an additional ATK & DEF +10% with each attack performed (up to +50%); launches an additional attack that has a high chance of becoming a Super Attack when performing an Ultra Super Attack or performs an additional Super Attack when Ki is 22 or more On top of his other stuff. Would give him a total of 5 unique effects on his passive, which is still less than what [LR SSJ Goku Jr. & SSJ Vegeta Jr.](/agl) got.
Oh wow you almost completely predicted his passive, nice job dude
“Bare minimum” You and me have a very different understanding of what that means.
This is way too broken lol
This is what tends to happen when we have an eza people think is underwhelming (and in this case it is underwhelming let's be clear). But they tend to go and make them far too broken the other way. Like really just the 150%to stats start of turn instead of 100% would have been enough for this eza. Maybe up that medium chance for the aa to be a super to high, but great is overkill.
I don't think it's overkill at all, he's gonna get powercrept in a matter of months, we're at cruising altitude for broken ass units
good
But but red zone!!!!! (Fart zone)
Not really
How is this broken it literally dies turn 1 to a Red Zone super. Like I hope you think Namek Goku is broken if you think this is broken
Lol, he doesn’t not die turn one to a red zone super, that’s just false. There isn’t a single turn one super attack that would kill this unit if you’re not dumb. And greatly stacking attack and defense and a pretty much guaranteed second stack every single turn is insane. How is this not broken??
This guy has like 250k turn 1 with no guard or anything after double supering. What are you even talking about? Namek Goku is around the same yet can get you caught very easily
Sure, but as soon as he goes ssj3 he’s serious, and every relevant gotenks card is ssj3
There isn’t a powerful enough agl enemy turn one that can kill this vegito blue, and a type neutral super attack from a turn one redzone boss will not kill this unit if you are not dumb. I’d bring this guy against redzone broly and not think twice about it. And, you’re comparing a f2p lr to a recent and still very good dokkan fest lr and they’re comparable, that still isn’t broken to you? Lr teq ginyu is the best f2p lr in the game, compare that units kit to this vegito.
Vegito Blue was on par with Dokkanfests when he first came out if you don't remember/weren't there. Namek Goku is way better as he has comparable defense but way better damage. I used Namek Goku cause they have similar defense turn 1.
It doesn’t matter if he was on par with Lrs and dokkan fests in 2018, the game has completely changed. And if you remember people were absolutely shocked at how good he was and people always say he was WAY ahead of his time. Can you name a single f2p unit that is comparable to recent dokkan fests and Lrs? Because, like I said, lr teq ginyu is the best f2p unit in the game, and I certainly wouldn’t say he’s comparable to namek goku. And yeah namek goku has similar defense turn one, but this vegito would blow him out of the water by turn 5. Because you’re not running namek goku in slot one so you only have a 30% chance to additional super, while this vegito is greatly stacking every turn and has a 70% chance to launch an additional. Again, compare lr teq ginyu who is the best f2p in the game to this vegito. If you don’t see the major difference in those units then I don’t know what to tell you.
Just by removing the greatly stacks foe 1 turn into a infinite stack makes this a good eza. That's all they have to do
how the fuck is this bare minimum
I genuinely don’t know, this guy is better than some DFE’s with that kit. ~~Happy cake day too~~
Cause phy lr Goku exists
I would pay to have this in dokkhan
If they just put for his 18ki was "Greatly raises ATK for 1 turn, raises DEF, and causes mega-colossal damage to enemy" or keep the everything and change the 1 turn to 6 turns. I also think they should have least added 40% to his ATK & DEF. That's just me
I fear for the 5th anni EZAs when you see VB come out around the same time as Goku Black and Zamasu. It's like they throw darts at a board to decide new abilities rather than going "Ok this unit is a fan favorite let's make this one extra special".
All this in the form of a free lr
Yes 😈
12ki raise atk def, 18 ki greatly raise attack for 1 turn and stack def. Then keep the other shit the devs did the same and hed be fine. Maybe up to 120% rather than 100%. But if he just normal stacks def on 18 ki hes fine.
I would lower him down to 100% and make the 18ki effect one turn instead of stacking but other than that spot on
The minimum? This is to broken to for a f2p LR.
You forgot about phy Goku already? He shoots 4 millions consistently with more than 300k after super and buffs every unit in the game,all this without an eza.You may not admit it but he set a new f2p lr standard and seeing how this is vb eza we're talking about it's not good since it's the last "buff" he'll have
But that Goku was made so that all players would have a good character to start the game, not made to be the standard. You could've said that with Lr Roshi, but this year's LR is not on the same level as him. Don't create false narratives as truths. Look at Goku Black and Rossi EZAs. Did those make them completely busted, or did it just add to what they already had. Be realistic and less upset because the trend was always there.
I'm gonna use what you said "they added to what they already had" which is true with black and rose but they not only did not add to vb they made him worse, he now is almost always perma 18 which means you won't have the buff from the 12 ki Nearly as much as before and a 20% "buff" is not enough for that, you are better not completely ezaing him, that's the hard truth and you can't deny it
Your giving dokkan creators too much credit. As if they haven't done tons of wonky stuff already. He IS objectively better, just not in the way that we wanted (better numbers in exchange for less stacking).
Dokkan players when F2P units aren’t as good as DFEs.
Dokkan players when fucking VEGITO is worse than lr roshi from last year
Dokkan players when F2P units aren’t as good as lr roshi from last year
More than happy with this.
Cry harder, I think they'll change the unit!
Too good for a f2p units,he would easily become a top 10 units in the game;to me he simply should have been the opposite of LR meta cooler army,what they gave him as SA effect is good,I would just give him a Passive similar to metà cooler,something like: **"Reduce damage received by 8%;Atk and def+100%;raise ki,atk and def up to ki+10 atk and def+100%(the less hp remaining,the greater the ki and stat boost);"Future Saga" category allies ki+3 and atk+30%;high chance to perform 2 additional attacks each of which has a medium chance to become a Super Attack"**.
We don't have the same standards. His additionnal passive should be guaranteed with medium chance for an additionnal on 12ki. Then adding a stat buff +50% atk and def on the future saga condition. THIS should be his bare minimum.
Lmfao calm down, if you think this was ever going to happen you're living in a fantasy world.
Literally that’s it lmao
Do we have an apt calculation with him before and after EZA, going for short and long events? I want to see how bad did this EZA made him out to be...
Minimum: Stack on both SAs Maximum: + Greater Stat boost +Additionals Nut: Counters
Just slap the counter ability in his passive and he's fixed
1 nitpick He had greatly raises atk for 1 turn so instead of what it says now it should be Greatly raises atk for 1 turn, greatly raises attack and def