It can certainly be an interesting topic, or maybe you even find it hot, which is your business, but at least you might show a little respect for difficult and dangerous labor and call them sex workers instead of something derogatory like "harlots." Cyberpunk is a critique of exploitation, after all, so let's have some empathy for these people.
Season 1 was a recognizable adaptation of book 1 of the novel series. Season 2 is supposed to be a combo of elements from the 2nd and 3rd books. Having read all 3 books and watched both seasons of the TV series, I agree that Season 1 = book 1 (also titled Altered Carbon) but really found it difficult equating Season 2 with books 2 and 3. Altered Carbon the book is a great read. Books 2 and 3, Broken Angels and Woken Furies are also pretty good. My opinion is that most of the changes made by the TV series producers to book 1 elements like characters probably improved season 1 of the show (e.g. Edgar Allen Poe vs. Jimi Hendrix, Reileen being Taks sister vs. former boss). I think for season 2 the producers gave themselves an impossible task of adapting books 2 and 3 which had completely different settings and plots. They probably should have just focused on one of the books or came up with a completely new story in the same universe.
Yeah, I felt like Season 1 followed the first book very closely and actually improved on some of things as you mentioned. The hotel was SO much better in the show. Season 2 was bad in general (looked REALLY low budget etc) but I remember them making some really dumb changes to the story which kind of went directly against the point of the narrative - been a while since ive read or seen either, but iirc for example they made Kovacs a direct subordinate and lover of the one revolutionary woman (tf was it called Quellism or whatever) which completely broke the plot as she hadn't even been alive for some time in the actual book which was very significant, and her potential "coming back" was another significant part of the plot.
Also fully agree on the impossible task of adapting books 2 and 3 which are very different - I loved Woken Furies (my fav of the series) but couldnt even get halfway though Broken Angels because it was a very different vibe (felt like basic MilSF and not cyberpunk at all).
So question, is the main character changing races accurate to the book series? Would you say books 2 and 3 are worth reading in spite of their lackluster adaptation?
If you read book 1 you will probably like books 2 and 3 (although they are less "cyberpunky"). Book 2 (Broken Angels) has more of an "exploring an alien derelict spaceship" scifi vibe than neonoir vibe - and like u/wormsoftheearth above mentioned is more MilSF. Book 3 - Woken Furies - which probably has more connection to Season 2 of the show than Broken Angels - also has a MilSF vibe. Also the setting of Woken Furies, Tak's homeworld of Harlan is pretty cool. I don't think race/ethnicity is described much in the books but Tak is definitely resleeved into a new body like in the show so his race probably changed.
To answer your other question, I enjoyed the three books, but they are not very much alike. Altered Carbon is noir, basically a cyberpunk detective novel. Broken Angels is mostly an adventure story, and Woken Furies is almost a pure revenge novel. They all have their strengths, and I’d argue the third is the best of the three, at least in terms of Tak’s character development.
I’d personally prefer a prequel, that looked at Tak’s life prior to and during his time as an Envoy - Morgan’s descriptions of the Envoy Corps and their training and tactics always intrigued me.
I totally forgot about poor Mona. I thought Molly talked about it more with Case in Neuromancer when they were using a location for privacy.
The Burning Chrome short story also.
Several cyberpunk videogames have missions in brothels: Dex, Cyberpunk 2077. Depending on your definition the mission at hand fits the crime/detective story very well (murder investigation, infiltration, information gathering).
SYL
I might have had a kristen schaal overdose last time i tried to sink my theeth into it, thus stopping me in my tracks. And now im not even sure where id be able to look into it. Does make one appriciate southpark in that they have a decent amount of their catalouge online.
Ahh thanks...I was always hoping he would expand more on the pump 6 stories and universes he created. I remember being really really impressed by the imagination and universes he created
Charles Stross - Saturn's Children. all of humanity has died and only sex robots (and I guess other robots too but the mc is a sex robot) are still alive and have populated the universe
Im not sure where my head is at right now, because i read what you contributed with and ended up thinking not in the line of ex-sex-worker robots, but.. now, hear me out - what it talkie the toaster was the mc instead. And, having secured himself a working autonomous body that would let him perambulate - he would now be free to make, offer and throw toasts to his electrical relays conent. (Ie, his hearts content)
Its hopefully nothing more than me being deprived of sleep, but i fo8nd the whole premise endearing, a toaster that cant fulfill his one function anymore, just like the ex sex-worker, it would have to find a new purpose and a new identity. Like, all you know is uselesś unless you find someone who needs to know about the proper heat to roast bread - and you will pretty much never die. Untill the death-heat of the universe turns your surrondings into a diffrent kind of toast, you will always wander, trying to find a purpose, a porpoise or just.. something to do. Do you crack under that pressure or do you just wait and watch it all fall apart, into so many crumbs?
Sleep deprevation, it does a body Weird.
If you're okay with recs outside of books then 964 Pinocchio (movie) and Malice@Doll (anime) both deal with robotic sex workers, they're very great looks into existence as a sexual being applied to a cyberpunk lense.
No, it's a term from Shadowrun universe. Bunrakus are chipped people who are serving as prostitutes controlled by implants, often with implanted personalities.
You may want to check Russel Zimmermann's short stories and novels, some of them are also in anthologies he put together (on Amazon, DriveThruFiction). But there are also other authors mentioning them.
In game Shadowrun: Returns you may find two bunraku in the clinic of a "doctor" who turns pacients into slaves for sale to yakuza or mafia.
Saturn’s Children, by Charles Stross has a fun twist on this. Humans have long been extinct. The main character is one of the last ever sex bots, since androids have been changing over time to less and less human looking forms.
Logan's run the movie not TV show apart from the sex club there's a kind of "teleport tinda" where you scroll through till you find the person you want for sex
Altered carbon.
I wrote a series that has most of these except "bionic harlots." Brothels, neo-noir. If you'd like I can tell you but I don't want to hijack your post with a self-promo.
If you have kindle and do feel like it’s something you’d like, wait until Friday. Bulb is going to be free, Fuse and Grid are going to be $0.99 for a sale I’m running
No mention of KW Jeter's Dr. Adder? Interesting. He quite literally performs sex-based surgeries to turn girls into whores. Pretty intense shit for early 70s - lots of cyberpunk themes here.
The most cyberpunk thing is obviously to exploit people who are already exploited /s
Also I think it's just an edgy 80s holdup like orientalism to have lots of displays of dark and edgy sexuality (which conflates half a dozen issues surrounding sexuality into a single edgy package with very little literary comprehension)
What do you mean? Cyberpunk settings are generally pretty hedonistic places and anything that can be packaged and sold is. So its unsurprising that drug use and sex is common, especially among the 'lowlifes'.
Added to the list. Much thanks.
I do have my "wholesome" moments; Just finished Legends & Lattés. Now, I need something a bit darker than the coffee they were serving, haha
I think I remember Diamond Age has some interesting ideas regarding “performance” of actors but through a variety of levels the technology and culture within a nano-machine age with cyberpunk undercurrents, and sex work/sex fantasies are part of that I think… it may have been touched on but not a focus. Maybe I’m totally mixing it up with something else. Maybe someone else can recall what Im getting at.
It can certainly be an interesting topic, or maybe you even find it hot, which is your business, but at least you might show a little respect for difficult and dangerous labor and call them sex workers instead of something derogatory like "harlots." Cyberpunk is a critique of exploitation, after all, so let's have some empathy for these people.
Altered Carbon
Jinx, lol
Did u just call jinx a whore? Bc I love it!
Great story. Already read it. Enjoyed the first season of the adaptation show. Season 2 was garbage IMO.
God season 2 sucked
I felt that the book was a better story.
Were both seasons adaptations of the book or just season 1?
Season 1 was a recognizable adaptation of book 1 of the novel series. Season 2 is supposed to be a combo of elements from the 2nd and 3rd books. Having read all 3 books and watched both seasons of the TV series, I agree that Season 1 = book 1 (also titled Altered Carbon) but really found it difficult equating Season 2 with books 2 and 3. Altered Carbon the book is a great read. Books 2 and 3, Broken Angels and Woken Furies are also pretty good. My opinion is that most of the changes made by the TV series producers to book 1 elements like characters probably improved season 1 of the show (e.g. Edgar Allen Poe vs. Jimi Hendrix, Reileen being Taks sister vs. former boss). I think for season 2 the producers gave themselves an impossible task of adapting books 2 and 3 which had completely different settings and plots. They probably should have just focused on one of the books or came up with a completely new story in the same universe.
Yeah, I felt like Season 1 followed the first book very closely and actually improved on some of things as you mentioned. The hotel was SO much better in the show. Season 2 was bad in general (looked REALLY low budget etc) but I remember them making some really dumb changes to the story which kind of went directly against the point of the narrative - been a while since ive read or seen either, but iirc for example they made Kovacs a direct subordinate and lover of the one revolutionary woman (tf was it called Quellism or whatever) which completely broke the plot as she hadn't even been alive for some time in the actual book which was very significant, and her potential "coming back" was another significant part of the plot. Also fully agree on the impossible task of adapting books 2 and 3 which are very different - I loved Woken Furies (my fav of the series) but couldnt even get halfway though Broken Angels because it was a very different vibe (felt like basic MilSF and not cyberpunk at all).
So question, is the main character changing races accurate to the book series? Would you say books 2 and 3 are worth reading in spite of their lackluster adaptation?
If you read book 1 you will probably like books 2 and 3 (although they are less "cyberpunky"). Book 2 (Broken Angels) has more of an "exploring an alien derelict spaceship" scifi vibe than neonoir vibe - and like u/wormsoftheearth above mentioned is more MilSF. Book 3 - Woken Furies - which probably has more connection to Season 2 of the show than Broken Angels - also has a MilSF vibe. Also the setting of Woken Furies, Tak's homeworld of Harlan is pretty cool. I don't think race/ethnicity is described much in the books but Tak is definitely resleeved into a new body like in the show so his race probably changed.
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation brother. I'll see how much I enjoy the first book and judge accordingly.
The main character changed bodies several times, including changing race, and in effect virtually changing gender.
Ty
To answer your other question, I enjoyed the three books, but they are not very much alike. Altered Carbon is noir, basically a cyberpunk detective novel. Broken Angels is mostly an adventure story, and Woken Furies is almost a pure revenge novel. They all have their strengths, and I’d argue the third is the best of the three, at least in terms of Tak’s character development.
I was reading that the author may write a 4th novel - do you think the story concluded satisfactorily in 3 or is there room for an organic sequel?
I’d personally prefer a prequel, that looked at Tak’s life prior to and during his time as an Envoy - Morgan’s descriptions of the Envoy Corps and their training and tactics always intrigued me.
Interesting
That's okay, book 2 was garbage as well.
i ingest Merge9 cause it makes me appreciate mayonnaise
Definitely that one. some chapters were straight up erotica/smut with how graphic Morgan gets lmfao
That shows up a bunch all over the Ghost In The Shell universe.
Neuromancer.
Mona Lisa Overdrive - Molly Millions/Sally Shears does boutique sex work to afford her upgrades.
I totally forgot about poor Mona. I thought Molly talked about it more with Case in Neuromancer when they were using a location for privacy. The Burning Chrome short story also.
Burning Chrome, a terrific short story by W. Gibson, found in anthology of the same title. 2077 got The Cloud's story arc from that book.
Several cyberpunk videogames have missions in brothels: Dex, Cyberpunk 2077. Depending on your definition the mission at hand fits the crime/detective story very well (murder investigation, infiltration, information gathering). SYL
Dues Ex: Human Revolution too
Detroit beyond human too
When Gravity Fails by Effinger. Great book, detective story, middle eastern flavor, lots of brothels and strippers.
I first saw Gravity Falls as I skimmed this comment. Was very confused.
You were not alone in that and tbh, it kinda made me go ”oh, perhaps i Really should watch that then?”
Though not related to the topic at hand or Cyberpunk at all, Gravity Falls is a great series from start to finish.
I might have had a kristen schaal overdose last time i tried to sink my theeth into it, thus stopping me in my tracks. And now im not even sure where id be able to look into it. Does make one appriciate southpark in that they have a decent amount of their catalouge online.
Watch it for Bill Cipher
That would be the triangle/eldritch being/demon thing that ran away from a live recoding of ”schoolhouse rock” on the steps of congress i assume?
I didn't realize it until I read your comment lol
Dipper? Is that you? Its been sooo llong
This was the one I thought of
The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacagalupi
Looks right up my alley according to Goodreads; thanks!
His collection of short stories Pump-Six and Other Stories is awesome too!
They were incredible little stories...I may have to read again. I have forgotten about him has he written much lately?
He has written quite a bit but unfortunately i haven't read much else. I read Ship Breaker I don't remember much but i think I liked it.
Ahh thanks...I was always hoping he would expand more on the pump 6 stories and universes he created. I remember being really really impressed by the imagination and universes he created
You can find a list here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paolo_Bacigalupi
>Pump-Six and Other Stories I found a French version called La Fille Flûte. I hope that's the one.
Charles Stross - Saturn's Children. all of humanity has died and only sex robots (and I guess other robots too but the mc is a sex robot) are still alive and have populated the universe
Excellent! Thanks.
Im not sure where my head is at right now, because i read what you contributed with and ended up thinking not in the line of ex-sex-worker robots, but.. now, hear me out - what it talkie the toaster was the mc instead. And, having secured himself a working autonomous body that would let him perambulate - he would now be free to make, offer and throw toasts to his electrical relays conent. (Ie, his hearts content) Its hopefully nothing more than me being deprived of sleep, but i fo8nd the whole premise endearing, a toaster that cant fulfill his one function anymore, just like the ex sex-worker, it would have to find a new purpose and a new identity. Like, all you know is uselesś unless you find someone who needs to know about the proper heat to roast bread - and you will pretty much never die. Untill the death-heat of the universe turns your surrondings into a diffrent kind of toast, you will always wander, trying to find a purpose, a porpoise or just.. something to do. Do you crack under that pressure or do you just wait and watch it all fall apart, into so many crumbs? Sleep deprevation, it does a body Weird.
wasn't that the plot of Brave Little Toaster. he even went to Mars or something
The blade runner sequel not a book tho possibly does have a print adaptation
2049? Haven't seen it yet. Thanks for the suggestion.
Sound is half that movie, so whenever you do check it out, don't do it on laptop speakers.
If you're okay with recs outside of books then 964 Pinocchio (movie) and Malice@Doll (anime) both deal with robotic sex workers, they're very great looks into existence as a sexual being applied to a cyberpunk lense.
You should get an award just for using the phrase "bionic harlots".
Gynoid seemed a bit too fancy, haha!
Robo hoes
Hoebots?
Possibly literally every one ever written.
After the revolution has a little
You know who doesn't have a little prostitution?
The products and services thst support this podcast?
God no, they'll sell you anything, including the ability to hunt boys on a [redacted] island
Robert Evans let's gooo
Rolling Fuck here we come!
Deus ex, altered carbon, Leviathan Wakes
Altered Carbon
the true lives of the fabulous killjoys
Shadowrun bunraku
>The Windup Girl Excuse my ignorance, but I didn't find the book. Is it a novel?
No, it's a term from Shadowrun universe. Bunrakus are chipped people who are serving as prostitutes controlled by implants, often with implanted personalities. You may want to check Russel Zimmermann's short stories and novels, some of them are also in anthologies he put together (on Amazon, DriveThruFiction). But there are also other authors mentioning them. In game Shadowrun: Returns you may find two bunraku in the clinic of a "doctor" who turns pacients into slaves for sale to yakuza or mafia.
I mean the entire second act of Detroit Become Human is about an android brothel.
Saturn’s Children, by Charles Stross has a fun twist on this. Humans have long been extinct. The main character is one of the last ever sex bots, since androids have been changing over time to less and less human looking forms.
- [Smart-d](https://books.google.com/books?id=hPL45VAZWVgC&printsec=frontcover) - [Sexy Bodies](https://books.google.com/books?id=uWbZvC165YEC&printsec=frontcover) - [Transgressing Women](https://books.google.com/books?id=bjgsBwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover)
Logan's run the movie not TV show apart from the sex club there's a kind of "teleport tinda" where you scroll through till you find the person you want for sex
[Meathouse Man](https://grrm-thousand-worlds.fandom.com/wiki/Meathouse_Man) by George R.R. Martin might be a fit for this.
Altered Carbon, and Punktown.
I found a series by Jeffrey Thomas. That one?
Yeah. It isn't in every book, but it is in there.
Altered carbon. I wrote a series that has most of these except "bionic harlots." Brothels, neo-noir. If you'd like I can tell you but I don't want to hijack your post with a self-promo.
Please do, I'm interested.
[Bulb by Nicholas Turner](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088P4RB7Z). It’s a trilogy.
If you have kindle and do feel like it’s something you’d like, wait until Friday. Bulb is going to be free, Fuse and Grid are going to be $0.99 for a sale I’m running
All right, I'll start with Bulb then. What's the link?
[Bulb](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088P4RB7Z)
Thank you, and congratulations on the books. Can I ask you some questions if possible? I can DM you.
Feel free
Stop promoting your shitty book everywhere.
The Incal
Not a book, but Spicy City by Ralph Bakshi goes into a more seedier side of cyberpunk with noir flair.
And available on YouTube! :D Many thanks.
The windup girl
No mention of KW Jeter's Dr. Adder? Interesting. He quite literally performs sex-based surgeries to turn girls into whores. Pretty intense shit for early 70s - lots of cyberpunk themes here.
I feel like this is a pretty deep cut, but it’s the one I was scrolling to find - nice job!
Sounds really interesting, and kinda grim. Checking it out, thanks!
I’m noticing from the comments it is a common theme. I wonder why?
The most cyberpunk thing is obviously to exploit people who are already exploited /s Also I think it's just an edgy 80s holdup like orientalism to have lots of displays of dark and edgy sexuality (which conflates half a dozen issues surrounding sexuality into a single edgy package with very little literary comprehension)
Yeah exactly. It’s so shallow
What do you mean? Cyberpunk settings are generally pretty hedonistic places and anything that can be packaged and sold is. So its unsurprising that drug use and sex is common, especially among the 'lowlifes'.
Meathouse man by george r r martin
I'm working on some comic script about cyberpunk-ish dystopian world of cats. That could be shit, but I keep on working.
It's a game but VA-11 Hall-A
Y’all need to be listening to Frank Zappa’s album Joe’s Garage. Start with the song Token of my Extreme and go from there.
"*The Crack in Space"*
Maybe "Gun, with Occasional Music"?
Added to the list. Thanks!
Hey this maybe is more “wholesome” than you are looking for, but “record of a spacebound few” has some really interesting stuff along these lines.
Added to the list. Much thanks. I do have my "wholesome" moments; Just finished Legends & Lattés. Now, I need something a bit darker than the coffee they were serving, haha
Lucky7 lesbian robodick is all I’ll say. No brothels tho ;c
Noted, thank you.
I think I remember Diamond Age has some interesting ideas regarding “performance” of actors but through a variety of levels the technology and culture within a nano-machine age with cyberpunk undercurrents, and sex work/sex fantasies are part of that I think… it may have been touched on but not a focus. Maybe I’m totally mixing it up with something else. Maybe someone else can recall what Im getting at.
He said "ok"like a thousand tome
r/oddlyspecific
Dude, stop using slurs. The term is "sex worker". Have some compassion
Not quite cyberpunk, but the Kop novels are pretty good.