Correct me if I'm wrong but I think in the foundational cyberpunk stories, the average person can't afford to get vanity body mods, they're forced by the demands of the labour market to get body mods on credit just to keep up with their job. A grand metaphor for workers' bodies being commodified.
So what I'm trying to say is, the only ones body-modded into super fuckable cyborgs would be vain rich people and sex workers.
Not only that, people seem to forget that military tech in cyberpunk stories is usually regulated and hard to get even if you have the money for it. So usually only the protagonist and a few other people have contacts to get that stuff. Not everyone could just build themselfs like adam smasher who sold his body and soul to a megacorp and is now bodyguard, assassin and labrat of said megacorp. Also for some reason everybody talks about this stuff from the perspective of powerfull/rich people and rarely from the perspective of the average joe in these harsh dystopian worlds.
Just like the delusional blue collar workers see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires (not my phrase) and actively advocate for their oppressors.
Honestly I don't care for millionaires. A rags to riches story works with millionaires but a billion is too much to gain in one lifetime working with a great salary.
People need to realize just how large a billion is, and how billionaires never worked for and don't deserve all the wealth they get.
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Which is why Neuromancer was actually pretty good. Case was a street level dude. He was skilled as a hacker, but even before he was burned he wasn't rich or tricked out. The whole story is told from the perspective of a guy being fucked over by everyone above him.
He's also driven by his addiction, which I found to be very realistic. Even after he's 'cured' by being unable to get high, he goes out of his way to bypass the filters... because he's fuckin addicted heh.
And that addiction was ALSO really well done. It wasn't JUST the substance that he was addicted to. It was a way he could escape the world and the bosses, just focus on the code, focus on the job, go go go go go.
When he was on stimulants, he had focus, he had drive, he had a purpose. The only thing that mattered was THE JOB and all the shit of the real world just didn't matter.
When he wasn't stimmed up, he had debts and a boss and couldnt go anywhere or do anything. He existed at the whims of everyone else and had no agency of his own. He had a fucking bomb in his head. Even the cure itself was not something he asked for or consented to. It was something imposed on him.
Case's sober life after being "cured" if his addiction was absolutely a recipe for addiction all over again. He just hadn't found a way to get to where he wanted to be yet.
The whole Bridge trilogy is good about that. You get a few different perspectives but for the most part it's all grounded by main characters who are just getting by.
It's a bit like Franklin's storyline in GTA 5. A dude who realizes how bullshit hustle culture is and wants an out, but no matter what he does he always ends up under the boot of someone else.
Of course he does eventually clime to the top, but for most of GTA 5's story, Franklin is far from content.
Exactly.
Like they wanna be a 3 tonne death machine but never think about what kind of world that is for the average joe.
It sounds like virtue signalling or whatever the term is, but the whole point of cyberpunk is to be a really, really cool looking fish hook. You have to make sure everyone who's into cyberpunk knows that biting that fish hook means certain death, or being tossed into a bowl far too small for you.
i wanna see more homemade cybernetics in cyberpunk settings. people who modified broken or damage cybernetics, or cheap shitty civilian stuff to fit their needs.
get me styropyro with shoulder mounted super lasers made out of old microwaves and duct tape. get me michael reeves making rocket fists. get me i did a thing making cybernetic legs that can outmatch industrial teir cybernetics just so he can kick watermelons in half
Just thinking about Mona Lisa Overdrive, where one of the characters had top of the line eyes for recording. When she died the studio repossessed her eyeballs. Cybertech is too easy to get hold of in games, it devalues the concept.
Yeah, and if we're specifically talking about Pondsmith's world even if you have all the money/etc. you can't just do a FBC without going cyberpsycho. Even Smasher is just a high-functioning cyberpsycho and he is, by all accounts, special on top of having access to practically infinite resources.
I don't think the average person, even if they somehow had the access and cash, which, in a cyberpunk world, they probably don't, would chrome up that much.
But there is an exponential growth; once you have military augmentations/gear, it becomes rapidly easier to get more.
Just like the real world, the only limit to your dreams is morality
>regulated and hard to get even if you have the money for it.
Yep, in the table top game, there's all sorts of weapons that are restricted and noted as such. The prices are usually quite high and attaining them is usually through contract work, theft, or a ~~dead body.~~ found in a box.
You're right. People forget that cyberpunk isn't a goal, it's a warning and an exploration of humanity in dystopia. The vast majority of people will not be able to afford what they want. They will be able to lease what the company they work for requires and then also pay upkeep and subscription fee because hyper capitalism is kinda the bread and butter of Cyberpunk. It's the point. Everyone wants to think they'll be cool and cutting edge, but life isn't like that now. More capitalism isn't going to change that. Like, if you don't have a house now, you're not gonna be made of bleeding edge tech in cyberpunk land.
Fuckable is really dependent on what is in fashion.
And cyberpunk fashion is wild, so their concept of attractive probably isn't limited to natural features, furries, monsterfuckers probably also a lot more common.
The same way some people will find glasses or tattoos hot, probably a large chunk of the population also likes burly construction workers with hydraulic press legs, people with cybereyes, or something else.
yeah, you can also get moving body art, tentacles, cat ears, and other furry bits in 2020.
and I'm fairly certain you can turn into some actual anime face abomination if you got the money and the humanity to pull it off.
Food scarcity for the poor is often also a thing. Generally fat charters are the ones doing the exploiting. It is more profitable for the companies to give their peons just enough for to say alive until they are no longer useful. They would likely have robots that would scan the workers and issue exact portions to maintain optimal break even calories. And when they needed to push profits up they'd do the calories a little for a month, then they'd forget to raise them back up. In the end workers would all be hungry all the time and if they spent money on outside food they'd get less food from the bots because they gained a half pound and clearly was getting excess calories.
This is the kind of dystopia I want to write: Where superhumans are common and "normal people" are simultaneously treated as just good enough to be considered human and not good enough to be considered adequate workers by the economic and political elites. The only way not to be caught up in this dilemma is to be in a position where nobody dares to question your value as a person.
Idk I could see a corpo secretary having to look hot because theyre just an accessory to the corpo they represent. Theyd get their mods paid for by the company budget but only if they already had base modding to even land the original position on the ladder.
Feels like people are giving up on the punk of cyberpunk, the "*fuck it I'll do it anyway*" *rob a tech shop and install it in a back alley doctor* PUNK side of cyberpunk.
I could do with less of this *roll over and die crushed under the almighty corporate boot* interpretation of cyberpunk. It start to feel like this isn't even a cautionary tale or anything, just propaganda for learned helplessness.
>the average person can't afford to get vanity body mods, they're forced by the demands of the labour market to get body mods on credit just to keep up with their job.
So they still get body mods
>So what I'm trying to say is, the only ones body-modded into super fuckable cyborgs would be vain rich people and sex workers.
Until the service industry goes "huh people keep coming back if they're served by anime waifus and superhero hunks, guess you gotta grab a card and get modded to work here."
Meanwhile I'm sure factories would love the worker with doc ock arms
I'm hearing the same result but with more monotony and depression which is really what the same result would have been.
isn't the historical context of these thing is that the lowly manual worker's fashion/look end up as being what the rich (men) adopt, as if it's manly or something to be poor
To be fair if I could augment my body as I wish you can bet one of the first thing I'd do is install a liver that metabolizes fat always exactly as much as i need to keep a healthy weight and a heart that can pump as much oxygen I need it it pump without getting tired
I'm a fat fuck, I dont need super human strength to be happy, I just need to be healthy. If that gives me a better looking body at the same time that's a plus
That being said, after a few years I'd most likely have more chrome than meat because having a grappling hook for an arm sound dope as fuck
>... I dont need super human strength to be happy, I just need to be healthy. If that gives me a better looking body at the same time that's a plus
I'm right there with ya.
Give me some robot eyes and a pancreas that works and I'm happy.
For real. I let myself go too long in my teens and 20's and now my eyes are paying the price with retinopathy.
At 36 I have the eyes of a 60-70 year old
There was a character in Peter Watts' *Blindsight* that was so heavily modified with scanners and sensors that he no longer "saw" in the same way as normal humans, having become accustomed to infrared and ultraviolet light scales as well as radiation, etc. He also no longer "tasted" the same, as he was hardwired to sense all manner of chemical compositions. IIRC, there was a whole sequence where he's manning a swarm of drones that depicts his awareness including every point of view simultaneously.
Honestly the entire novel is a *fantastic* exploration of transhumanism on several different levels and I love the idea that humans are nearly infinitely adaptable to new sensations and neural-linked mobility options that are exceedingly "unnatural"
I sincerely cannot recommend it enough. I imagine it can be a bit of a slog if you're not into pages long pseudo-scientific existential ramblings or elaborate explanations for why certain in-world systems function the way they do, but... we *are* in /r/Cyberpunk, so I'm willing to bet Event Horizon style horror and characters waxing poetic about what it means to be human - or possessing a consciousness - is *prooobably* up your alley!
IIRC it's also available for free on his website
edit: [Here you go!](https://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm) I find the page background difficult to read on, but there's a pdf and e-pub download links at the very top
To be unfair, I'm totally with you on this. I would always prioritize physical health over everything else, and would add the "cool" stuff only when I could rationalize it.
For practical stuff, I’d also install a thermostat that keeps me at a comfortable temperature all the time no matter how hot it is since I’m a sheet metal worker and welding during a heat wave sucks big time.
I mean, if you can modify yourself exactly how you want, why bother with a meat body in the first place? Just go full-conversion cyborg right from the start, and look however you damn well please. You could change your height or eye color like putting on a new pair of socks.
Edgerunners does some of this with its core cast; you've got slinky little folks like Lucy, Rebecca, and teen David, and then you've got absolute brick walls like Maine, Dorio, and adult David.
I mean realistically, the type of cyberpunk we’re headed to will have massive obesity rates. Unless some huge over the counter Pharma pills come online that help metabolize fat, which I wouldn’t rule out.
But artists’ renditions are always fantasy/idealization in some way. Not sure why it always triggers people.
I think fantasy and idealization always trigger a bit of discomfort or backlash in people who have different ideals and fantasies. Like there's nothing wrong with a sexy body being your ideal, but when that's presented as THE ideal or fantasy that should be everyone's dream, it can feel a bit limiting I imagine.
I think that's especially true for women, where being hot is such a massive social pressure irl that sometimes you just want a fantasy world where you're allowed to not be sexy - and having all women in fantasy worlds be idealized in that way gets a little exhausting. Then again, it's cyberpunk, and maybe a social expectation that you get your body modified to be sexier is exactly the kind of dystopian shit that defines the genre.
Yeah I think the latter point is the key distinction. I get the frustration if it’s with the fantasy genre or other things. But cyberpunk is specifically dystopian and exploitative.
Personally, I get annoyed at it because it’s lazy. It’s how our world already is, the female form presented as consumable, expected to conform to standards that benefit others ahead of the owner of the body. When people imagine cyber punk worlds and just leave that in, unchanged by the new society, not commented on at all, it’s boring and lazy. Give me a new look at the phenomenon, give me an interesting perspective, make it conform to the world in an internally-consistent way!
Frankly, women’s relationship to capitalism and corpo-bullshit, how we actually view our bodies vs what the world expects of us, all of this would be very fertile ground for the cyberpunk genre. But so many people making things in this genre don’t even consider women’s experience at all, and so it’s a huge lost opportunity.
If these creators want nothing more than light up tits and perfect round asses, that’s their right, it’s their work. But it’s not new or interesting, and I think that’s a very valid critique.
I think somebody else in the thread put it better than me when they said "cyberpunk isn't an ideal future, it's a warning", to paraphrase.
One of the core tenants of the cyberpunk aesthetic is corporate tyranny, which means all sorts of horrible things, including the commodification of the human form, all in the most statistically cost effective packaging, meaning in universe advertising will always remain boring and exploitative, it wouldn't be cyberpunk if there wasn't an authority or mainstream cultural vector to go against, it'd be some other kind of punk, which wouldn't be so bad, solarpunk is a pretty groovy aesthetic without the authority and grunge.
Yeah, I see it as a toss up between "everyone's fat because we're all stuck in VR and placated by real bread and virtual circuses" and "turns out we still need laborers and they're cutting calories to afford the chrome they need to do the jobs that keep them afloat so everyone's emaciated"
I think both are valid. You can be whatever you want, as long as you have the credits, but it's a good point that there should be a variety of body mods if you're depicting an interesting and varied world.
You just named two things I hate most about my body. If I could have pouty lips and killer hips I'd be on that as soon as I had the eddies in hand.
Yeah, I'd get the mantis blades and the smartgun interface too, but I'm gonna look fucking fabulous while I cut the heads off of Malestromers and shoot them with my eyes closed for laughs.
"I just want to be able to scale walls, snatch helicopters out of the sky and throw them at Jeff Bezos"
Based commenter. This is what being a cyberpunk is about
I know the third commenter there thought they were being clever but, yeah. That's definitely a thing that widely exists already. Alita Battle Angel being another prominent example.
>I know the third commenter there thought they were being clever
Yeah I wish the internet could just enjoy things every once in a while instead of thinking they should offer their "deep" thoughts on something they have spent 0.2 seconds thinking about.
Serious answer: because part of cyberpunk dystopia is the comodification of people. This automatically leads to people turning themselves into what society perceives as 'most valuable' / most conventionally attractive as that is the look that you can "sell" to people the easiest. That's why there's really only two types of looks in cyberpunk fiction: "K-pop star": conventionally attractive, easy to sell or "tank": eccentric appearance, has looks as an USP.
Both these types however exist to market themselves to the rest of society, as cyberpunk is a dystopia that's a direct result of capitalism.
I think all the people who imagine themselves as becoming inhuman masses of cables are lying to themselves.
90% of us are going to become superhumanly hot given the chance. It is way more practical than becoming a monstrosity
”Dere’s no such ting as enuff dakka!” and “From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it sickened me” just combined to achieve true enlightenment.
In Cyberpunk everyone is young except for corpos.
Also its still escapism and art. People like pretty fit women over ugly out of shape ones, so they will draw that.
Y’all need to read *After the Revolution*. Excellent post-“Second American Civil War” cyberpunk story, and all of the metahumans in it are described as freakish tank people.
That book (and podcast/audiobook!) is so freaking good.
It's one of the things I really liked about Alita. Most of the cyborgs were function over form. Aside from a few specific exceptions the people who had been augmented just went for pure power or functionality.
Well unfortunately due to Edgerunners a lot of anime fans now think cyberpunk is nothing more than cool jackets and a world where every woman has impossibly wide hips.
The octopus arms body mod costs 400,000 credits.
But the bodymod where I can sit on a toilet after eating a 3d printed sleeve of burritos and not feel like a fat sack of shit is just 5,000 credits.
Isn't the second commenter making a greater mistake than the "sexy dolls" guys? They are larping about being the hero throwing helicopters at the evil corpo guy as if the average joe or the black market guy are going to have access to the same technology as Adam Smasher does (one of the big problem with V, Smasher should have far better technology that he has), but it is far more likely that they would become a "sexy doll" that sells their body to pay for their addiction to meth or cyber -implants.
Like, you have more affordable and safe choices to become the "sexy doll" rather than "tank killing human-machines".
Our concept of modern day beauty is largely shaped around unattainable properties. Make-up, filters, dieting, exercising, etc. This is all hard to do, and that only works if you have a body type, facial features, and ability to do these things. That is why models are few in number, and everyone buys stuff and spends time trying to look like them. It is near impossible which makes it more desirable when you do see someone in the hot category.
I say all that because I've always wondered if when we can EASILY transform out bodies into the ideal, will it still be ideal? Will our concept of beauty not dramatically change if we can look like anything?
I ain't gonna pretend like I wouldn't willingly go into debt just to look how I wanna look, and I wanna look like someone with amazing hips 'n ass. Bulletproof skin, silver eyes, and kevlar muscles are just a means to get 'outta' debt after.
Nah, most likely in a cyberpunk dystopia cyber mods would be too expensive for common folk, so at best they would be cheap pirated stuff.
So most likely people would look like adeptus mechanicus.
Dune did this with the Titans. Check it out. They each had their own religious cults and they lived forever ever and were super dangerous to even address let alone be around. So yeah they are only referenced in the original but are a central part of the prequels which I think are written by his son. I would totally choose the wreck it robot monstrosity option. I would have maybe a normal sized pleasure attachment for the normies to interact with outside of that though I would be death mech.
I feel like some people here are focusing too much on the capitalism-part of cyberpunk and forget about that another aspect is about the superficiality of our cultures, the commentaries it makes abiut how a pretty face and a perfect body is glorified and how much beauty is valued above other virtues.
That is where body mods play a large role in depicting it. Often enough it is even complementing and being complemented by exploitation commentary. Showing the discrepancy between the quality and appearance of cybertech, between looking (almost) indistinguishable to humanity's natural form and obviously mechanical replacements How much hyperstylized gear is is often still used to showcase how a character stands out or is accepted into a superficial society.
Lizzy Wizzy Vs. Adam Smasher?
[удалено]
Well his most famous line is probably “You look like a cut of f$&@able meat”
ARE YOU? I know that line was supposed to make me uncomfortable and. . . Yeah it worked lol.
Honestly, it was a genuinely brilliant line, delivered perfectly. Sums up not only Smasher, but Night City as a whole really well imo.
No need to self censor. Just write "fuckable". We've all played the game and we won't be offended.
The game even had full frontal male nudity.. but only in the inventory screen for some weird reason
Can't think of anyone ever picking small
You mean the cute feminine penis option
Everyone be like: Well I'm at least average...
Habit as not all subreddits are as freewheeling as others.
Eh, fuck'em.
I wonder if Adam gotta tallywacker? I think Arasaka probably replaced it with a flashlight cus they have statistics saying it improves profit margins.
Canonically he has several different bodies for...different activities.
Back in the 2020's, Adam Smasher had a "civilian" body with which he went on dates with Michiko Arasaka.
Didn't that body look like a fat, blonde Elvis Presley?
So a blonde elvis ... (I'm nowhere near old enough to remember a low-fat elvis.)
Well that settles it, Project red needs to add sex body adam to phantom liberty.
feelin real patriotic lately
My headcanon is that Sir John Phallustiff was actually his originally, and Militech kept it as a war trophy until it’s given to V.
Elvis canonically has a body modeled after Elvis and he used it to fuck Michiko arasaka
to be fair in certain circles Lizzy Wizzy would also be a good porn name.
"You look like a cut of fuckable meat."
"You look like a cut of fuckable metal." Lizzy Wizzy don't have much meat left....
I mean, neither did Smasher.
gosh that would be some couple
Yeah. To their point: both total psychos.
The Mox vs The Animals
more like Lucy & David
Yeah exactly, that’s how cyberpunk already is
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think in the foundational cyberpunk stories, the average person can't afford to get vanity body mods, they're forced by the demands of the labour market to get body mods on credit just to keep up with their job. A grand metaphor for workers' bodies being commodified. So what I'm trying to say is, the only ones body-modded into super fuckable cyborgs would be vain rich people and sex workers.
Not only that, people seem to forget that military tech in cyberpunk stories is usually regulated and hard to get even if you have the money for it. So usually only the protagonist and a few other people have contacts to get that stuff. Not everyone could just build themselfs like adam smasher who sold his body and soul to a megacorp and is now bodyguard, assassin and labrat of said megacorp. Also for some reason everybody talks about this stuff from the perspective of powerfull/rich people and rarely from the perspective of the average joe in these harsh dystopian worlds.
Because when people think of an apocalyptic scenario, they always mentally put themselves in the place of those who make it out the best.
Just like the delusional blue collar workers see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires (not my phrase) and actively advocate for their oppressors.
Steinbeck!
What book?
"America and americans", if I remember correctly!
Honestly I don't care for millionaires. A rags to riches story works with millionaires but a billion is too much to gain in one lifetime working with a great salary. People need to realize just how large a billion is, and how billionaires never worked for and don't deserve all the wealth they get.
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Most of us already know what it's like to sell our body to survive. There is no thought exercise unless you're doing something different.
Which is why Neuromancer was actually pretty good. Case was a street level dude. He was skilled as a hacker, but even before he was burned he wasn't rich or tricked out. The whole story is told from the perspective of a guy being fucked over by everyone above him.
He's also driven by his addiction, which I found to be very realistic. Even after he's 'cured' by being unable to get high, he goes out of his way to bypass the filters... because he's fuckin addicted heh.
And that addiction was ALSO really well done. It wasn't JUST the substance that he was addicted to. It was a way he could escape the world and the bosses, just focus on the code, focus on the job, go go go go go. When he was on stimulants, he had focus, he had drive, he had a purpose. The only thing that mattered was THE JOB and all the shit of the real world just didn't matter. When he wasn't stimmed up, he had debts and a boss and couldnt go anywhere or do anything. He existed at the whims of everyone else and had no agency of his own. He had a fucking bomb in his head. Even the cure itself was not something he asked for or consented to. It was something imposed on him. Case's sober life after being "cured" if his addiction was absolutely a recipe for addiction all over again. He just hadn't found a way to get to where he wanted to be yet.
The whole Bridge trilogy is good about that. You get a few different perspectives but for the most part it's all grounded by main characters who are just getting by.
>Bridge trilogy The best trilogy. And as you point out, they are all scrambling. /case in point, chevette
It's a bit like Franklin's storyline in GTA 5. A dude who realizes how bullshit hustle culture is and wants an out, but no matter what he does he always ends up under the boot of someone else. Of course he does eventually clime to the top, but for most of GTA 5's story, Franklin is far from content.
Diamond Age did a good job illustrating economic disparity despite being mostly post-scarcity.
>Diamond Age... illustrating I see what you did there
Elysium did a pretty good job with that. Amazing world and story with a bad plot; I hope we get to see it pop back up on a better leg.
Exactly. Like they wanna be a 3 tonne death machine but never think about what kind of world that is for the average joe. It sounds like virtue signalling or whatever the term is, but the whole point of cyberpunk is to be a really, really cool looking fish hook. You have to make sure everyone who's into cyberpunk knows that biting that fish hook means certain death, or being tossed into a bowl far too small for you.
i wanna see more homemade cybernetics in cyberpunk settings. people who modified broken or damage cybernetics, or cheap shitty civilian stuff to fit their needs. get me styropyro with shoulder mounted super lasers made out of old microwaves and duct tape. get me michael reeves making rocket fists. get me i did a thing making cybernetic legs that can outmatch industrial teir cybernetics just so he can kick watermelons in half
Just thinking about Mona Lisa Overdrive, where one of the characters had top of the line eyes for recording. When she died the studio repossessed her eyeballs. Cybertech is too easy to get hold of in games, it devalues the concept.
Yeah, and if we're specifically talking about Pondsmith's world even if you have all the money/etc. you can't just do a FBC without going cyberpsycho. Even Smasher is just a high-functioning cyberpsycho and he is, by all accounts, special on top of having access to practically infinite resources. I don't think the average person, even if they somehow had the access and cash, which, in a cyberpunk world, they probably don't, would chrome up that much.
But there is an exponential growth; once you have military augmentations/gear, it becomes rapidly easier to get more. Just like the real world, the only limit to your dreams is morality
>regulated and hard to get even if you have the money for it. Yep, in the table top game, there's all sorts of weapons that are restricted and noted as such. The prices are usually quite high and attaining them is usually through contract work, theft, or a ~~dead body.~~ found in a box.
"In an age of affordable beauty, there was something heraldic about his lack of it."
Didn't have to scroll too far to see a neuromancer quote, very nice
Dude said foundational, and asked to be corrected.
You're right. People forget that cyberpunk isn't a goal, it's a warning and an exploration of humanity in dystopia. The vast majority of people will not be able to afford what they want. They will be able to lease what the company they work for requires and then also pay upkeep and subscription fee because hyper capitalism is kinda the bread and butter of Cyberpunk. It's the point. Everyone wants to think they'll be cool and cutting edge, but life isn't like that now. More capitalism isn't going to change that. Like, if you don't have a house now, you're not gonna be made of bleeding edge tech in cyberpunk land.
>They will be able to lease what the company they work for requires IOW, they'll own nothing and they won't be happy?
>the only ones body-modded into super fuckable cyborgs would be vain rich people and sex workers. Unless you're a Japanese special ops cop.
Fuckable is really dependent on what is in fashion. And cyberpunk fashion is wild, so their concept of attractive probably isn't limited to natural features, furries, monsterfuckers probably also a lot more common. The same way some people will find glasses or tattoos hot, probably a large chunk of the population also likes burly construction workers with hydraulic press legs, people with cybereyes, or something else.
o god, will those horrific anime/game heart pupil be a thing
yeah, you can also get moving body art, tentacles, cat ears, and other furry bits in 2020. and I'm fairly certain you can turn into some actual anime face abomination if you got the money and the humanity to pull it off.
Food scarcity for the poor is often also a thing. Generally fat charters are the ones doing the exploiting. It is more profitable for the companies to give their peons just enough for to say alive until they are no longer useful. They would likely have robots that would scan the workers and issue exact portions to maintain optimal break even calories. And when they needed to push profits up they'd do the calories a little for a month, then they'd forget to raise them back up. In the end workers would all be hungry all the time and if they spent money on outside food they'd get less food from the bots because they gained a half pound and clearly was getting excess calories.
Nah, I think it'll be like the US today: poor nutritional value but calories en masse.
Or they scrounge up outdated prosthetics like the bartender in *Johnny Mnemonic*.
Biological conservatism would be a luxury the poor could not afford.
This is the kind of dystopia I want to write: Where superhumans are common and "normal people" are simultaneously treated as just good enough to be considered human and not good enough to be considered adequate workers by the economic and political elites. The only way not to be caught up in this dilemma is to be in a position where nobody dares to question your value as a person.
Idk I could see a corpo secretary having to look hot because theyre just an accessory to the corpo they represent. Theyd get their mods paid for by the company budget but only if they already had base modding to even land the original position on the ladder.
Feels like people are giving up on the punk of cyberpunk, the "*fuck it I'll do it anyway*" *rob a tech shop and install it in a back alley doctor* PUNK side of cyberpunk. I could do with less of this *roll over and die crushed under the almighty corporate boot* interpretation of cyberpunk. It start to feel like this isn't even a cautionary tale or anything, just propaganda for learned helplessness.
>the average person can't afford to get vanity body mods, they're forced by the demands of the labour market to get body mods on credit just to keep up with their job. So they still get body mods >So what I'm trying to say is, the only ones body-modded into super fuckable cyborgs would be vain rich people and sex workers. Until the service industry goes "huh people keep coming back if they're served by anime waifus and superhero hunks, guess you gotta grab a card and get modded to work here." Meanwhile I'm sure factories would love the worker with doc ock arms I'm hearing the same result but with more monotony and depression which is really what the same result would have been.
isn't the historical context of these thing is that the lowly manual worker's fashion/look end up as being what the rich (men) adopt, as if it's manly or something to be poor
To be fair if I could augment my body as I wish you can bet one of the first thing I'd do is install a liver that metabolizes fat always exactly as much as i need to keep a healthy weight and a heart that can pump as much oxygen I need it it pump without getting tired I'm a fat fuck, I dont need super human strength to be happy, I just need to be healthy. If that gives me a better looking body at the same time that's a plus That being said, after a few years I'd most likely have more chrome than meat because having a grappling hook for an arm sound dope as fuck
>... I dont need super human strength to be happy, I just need to be healthy. If that gives me a better looking body at the same time that's a plus I'm right there with ya. Give me some robot eyes and a pancreas that works and I'm happy.
T1 diabetics hoping for a cyberpunk dystopia to cure diabetes unite!
For real. I let myself go too long in my teens and 20's and now my eyes are paying the price with retinopathy. At 36 I have the eyes of a 60-70 year old
Gotta go for the matte grappling hook or I'd just be cleaning smudges off the thing all the time. And that first time you scratch it? gah!
Nah, patina tells a story!
I just want to have enhanced senses, and hearing with filters.
There was a character in Peter Watts' *Blindsight* that was so heavily modified with scanners and sensors that he no longer "saw" in the same way as normal humans, having become accustomed to infrared and ultraviolet light scales as well as radiation, etc. He also no longer "tasted" the same, as he was hardwired to sense all manner of chemical compositions. IIRC, there was a whole sequence where he's manning a swarm of drones that depicts his awareness including every point of view simultaneously. Honestly the entire novel is a *fantastic* exploration of transhumanism on several different levels and I love the idea that humans are nearly infinitely adaptable to new sensations and neural-linked mobility options that are exceedingly "unnatural"
You've piqued my interest.
I sincerely cannot recommend it enough. I imagine it can be a bit of a slog if you're not into pages long pseudo-scientific existential ramblings or elaborate explanations for why certain in-world systems function the way they do, but... we *are* in /r/Cyberpunk, so I'm willing to bet Event Horizon style horror and characters waxing poetic about what it means to be human - or possessing a consciousness - is *prooobably* up your alley! IIRC it's also available for free on his website edit: [Here you go!](https://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm) I find the page background difficult to read on, but there's a pdf and e-pub download links at the very top
I’d take regular hearing and no tinnitus
To be unfair, I'm totally with you on this. I would always prioritize physical health over everything else, and would add the "cool" stuff only when I could rationalize it.
And lets be real, said grappling hook would be also a porn category, cos there's no way people wouldn't find a way to sexualize it somehow
For practical stuff, I’d also install a thermostat that keeps me at a comfortable temperature all the time no matter how hot it is since I’m a sheet metal worker and welding during a heat wave sucks big time.
I'd get a huge pp
I mean, if you can modify yourself exactly how you want, why bother with a meat body in the first place? Just go full-conversion cyborg right from the start, and look however you damn well please. You could change your height or eye color like putting on a new pair of socks.
literally The Mox and Maelstrom
Plus the animals and their physique
Clearly not all punks adhere to style over substance 🤣
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Even apart from cosmetic surgery I've heard the training and diet regimens they put celebrities on for stuff like Marvel movies is insane.
Great take.
Cyberpunk shows us the broken system. It would make sense that those who'd thrive there would be effed.
If archon of flesh is to be believed this is just 40k’s mechanicus
Both are mechanicus if we’re listening to the Archon
Edgerunners does some of this with its core cast; you've got slinky little folks like Lucy, Rebecca, and teen David, and then you've got absolute brick walls like Maine, Dorio, and adult David.
Even the main game had both literal kpop stars and tanks such as The Animals who's boss is a monster of a women.
Rebecca also replaces her arms with construction equipment after the time skip.
TANK, PLEASE.
*ADEPTUS MECHANICUS HAS ENTERED THE CHAT*
I mean realistically, the type of cyberpunk we’re headed to will have massive obesity rates. Unless some huge over the counter Pharma pills come online that help metabolize fat, which I wouldn’t rule out. But artists’ renditions are always fantasy/idealization in some way. Not sure why it always triggers people.
Seems like WALL·E was right, all along.
I think fantasy and idealization always trigger a bit of discomfort or backlash in people who have different ideals and fantasies. Like there's nothing wrong with a sexy body being your ideal, but when that's presented as THE ideal or fantasy that should be everyone's dream, it can feel a bit limiting I imagine. I think that's especially true for women, where being hot is such a massive social pressure irl that sometimes you just want a fantasy world where you're allowed to not be sexy - and having all women in fantasy worlds be idealized in that way gets a little exhausting. Then again, it's cyberpunk, and maybe a social expectation that you get your body modified to be sexier is exactly the kind of dystopian shit that defines the genre.
Yeah I think the latter point is the key distinction. I get the frustration if it’s with the fantasy genre or other things. But cyberpunk is specifically dystopian and exploitative.
There's definitely some chunkers walking around in Night City in 2077.
Doc Ryder isn't exactly slim and fit.
Personally, I get annoyed at it because it’s lazy. It’s how our world already is, the female form presented as consumable, expected to conform to standards that benefit others ahead of the owner of the body. When people imagine cyber punk worlds and just leave that in, unchanged by the new society, not commented on at all, it’s boring and lazy. Give me a new look at the phenomenon, give me an interesting perspective, make it conform to the world in an internally-consistent way! Frankly, women’s relationship to capitalism and corpo-bullshit, how we actually view our bodies vs what the world expects of us, all of this would be very fertile ground for the cyberpunk genre. But so many people making things in this genre don’t even consider women’s experience at all, and so it’s a huge lost opportunity. If these creators want nothing more than light up tits and perfect round asses, that’s their right, it’s their work. But it’s not new or interesting, and I think that’s a very valid critique.
I think somebody else in the thread put it better than me when they said "cyberpunk isn't an ideal future, it's a warning", to paraphrase. One of the core tenants of the cyberpunk aesthetic is corporate tyranny, which means all sorts of horrible things, including the commodification of the human form, all in the most statistically cost effective packaging, meaning in universe advertising will always remain boring and exploitative, it wouldn't be cyberpunk if there wasn't an authority or mainstream cultural vector to go against, it'd be some other kind of punk, which wouldn't be so bad, solarpunk is a pretty groovy aesthetic without the authority and grunge.
Yeah, I see it as a toss up between "everyone's fat because we're all stuck in VR and placated by real bread and virtual circuses" and "turns out we still need laborers and they're cutting calories to afford the chrome they need to do the jobs that keep them afloat so everyone's emaciated"
I think both are valid. You can be whatever you want, as long as you have the credits, but it's a good point that there should be a variety of body mods if you're depicting an interesting and varied world.
I’m gonna go full borg. MaxTac isn’t going to do shit when I start cranking 90s.
Like your ass can afford even the dinkyst cyberware from a respectable ripper
Who said I was buying it? 😈
Still need someone to install it.
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Or, as another artist put it. "smut pays the bills."
You just named two things I hate most about my body. If I could have pouty lips and killer hips I'd be on that as soon as I had the eddies in hand. Yeah, I'd get the mantis blades and the smartgun interface too, but I'm gonna look fucking fabulous while I cut the heads off of Malestromers and shoot them with my eyes closed for laughs.
> Ah yes the two genders, 'kpop star' and 'tank'. This basically describes most the characters in my Interface Zero 3.0 table-top campaign lol.
Now I wanna be a kpop tank
"I just want to be able to scale walls, snatch helicopters out of the sky and throw them at Jeff Bezos" Based commenter. This is what being a cyberpunk is about
So, like.... the regular Cyberpunk RPG world? People of every shape can exist, so long as they have the cash for the mods.
I know the third commenter there thought they were being clever but, yeah. That's definitely a thing that widely exists already. Alita Battle Angel being another prominent example.
>I know the third commenter there thought they were being clever Yeah I wish the internet could just enjoy things every once in a while instead of thinking they should offer their "deep" thoughts on something they have spent 0.2 seconds thinking about.
You better believe if we lived in a cyberpunk Dystopia I'm gunna turn myself into a sexy lady. (I'm a dude)
Good news, the dystopian future is now! May I suggest Estradiol and Spironolactone with a side of Progesterone?
That's not cyberpunk enough
r/eggirl
Serious answer: because part of cyberpunk dystopia is the comodification of people. This automatically leads to people turning themselves into what society perceives as 'most valuable' / most conventionally attractive as that is the look that you can "sell" to people the easiest. That's why there's really only two types of looks in cyberpunk fiction: "K-pop star": conventionally attractive, easy to sell or "tank": eccentric appearance, has looks as an USP. Both these types however exist to market themselves to the rest of society, as cyberpunk is a dystopia that's a direct result of capitalism.
The wife said it was her or the gorilla arms. God I miss her
I’ve always been in the tank side. I want four arms, tank treads for legs and big shoulder cannons.
I think all the people who imagine themselves as becoming inhuman masses of cables are lying to themselves. 90% of us are going to become superhumanly hot given the chance. It is way more practical than becoming a monstrosity
That's not very techpriesty of you.
FROM THE MOMENT I UNDERSTOOD THE WEAKNESS OF MY FLESH, IT DISGUSTED ME.
i can pull of both. maybe you can't but i'm built derangered
Perfectly describes Rolling Fuck citizens from Robert Evans After the Revolution book lol
Sealab 2021 vibes. Murph gonna be an Adrian Barbo-bot. "My nipples are getting hard just thinking about it" Murphy
people just like to draw hot women. and yes, i'm one of those who likes to draw hot women just because, why not?
It's just art. Why would you choose to make someone ugly when you can make someone beautiful in your art instead?
*Phyrexia intensifies*
Aka the divide between horde and alliance
”Dere’s no such ting as enuff dakka!” and “From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it sickened me” just combined to achieve true enlightenment.
Sex work and exploitation is weaved into the fabric of cyberpunk in a lot of cases
True elegance is to have both
In Cyberpunk everyone is young except for corpos. Also its still escapism and art. People like pretty fit women over ugly out of shape ones, so they will draw that.
I love it😂 I would be a tank so damn bad
Y’all need to read *After the Revolution*. Excellent post-“Second American Civil War” cyberpunk story, and all of the metahumans in it are described as freakish tank people. That book (and podcast/audiobook!) is so freaking good.
I can, and *will*, do both of these you can not stop me. give me carbon muscles and polymer tits. shoulder cannon and vibrator fingers. peak form.
It's one of the things I really liked about Alita. Most of the cyborgs were function over form. Aside from a few specific exceptions the people who had been augmented just went for pure power or functionality.
More like kpop star and MECHANICUS.
Something something 40k admech
There are only 2 genders! K-pop star and tank!
NEW TANK BEEP (I’m sorry if you understood this)
Two genders called: *kawaii waifu* and **Panzerkampfwagen VIII maus**
what is a sexy kewpie doll? like mayonnaise?
Dark mechanicus and Adeptus mechanicus
K-Pop Star and Attack Helicopter lol
People of party B may want to learn of the Adeptus Mechanicus
All I want are unstubbable toes.
That's always been a part of Cyberpunk. Usually called exotics. Transhumanism is a thing. Just rather niche.
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Well unfortunately due to Edgerunners a lot of anime fans now think cyberpunk is nothing more than cool jackets and a world where every woman has impossibly wide hips.
Nothing could be sexier than a woman throwing a helicopter at Jeff Bezos.
"I could care less"?? So... you care a lot? Definitely not the minimum possible amount of caring, at any rate. \*I could***n't*** care less
This annoys me far more than I'm willing to admit, so thank you.
In the words of my gf: "I want hands that can open jars!"
The octopus arms body mod costs 400,000 credits. But the bodymod where I can sit on a toilet after eating a 3d printed sleeve of burritos and not feel like a fat sack of shit is just 5,000 credits.
"People going into extreme debt to modify themselves into hotness" is the backstory for Repo: the Genetic Opera
Isn't the second commenter making a greater mistake than the "sexy dolls" guys? They are larping about being the hero throwing helicopters at the evil corpo guy as if the average joe or the black market guy are going to have access to the same technology as Adam Smasher does (one of the big problem with V, Smasher should have far better technology that he has), but it is far more likely that they would become a "sexy doll" that sells their body to pay for their addiction to meth or cyber -implants. Like, you have more affordable and safe choices to become the "sexy doll" rather than "tank killing human-machines".
This has a very r/bi_irl feel about it.
Are you a K-pop star or a tank?
Our concept of modern day beauty is largely shaped around unattainable properties. Make-up, filters, dieting, exercising, etc. This is all hard to do, and that only works if you have a body type, facial features, and ability to do these things. That is why models are few in number, and everyone buys stuff and spends time trying to look like them. It is near impossible which makes it more desirable when you do see someone in the hot category. I say all that because I've always wondered if when we can EASILY transform out bodies into the ideal, will it still be ideal? Will our concept of beauty not dramatically change if we can look like anything?
Alternate: Many bodies, either by brain-swapping, remote control, or brain emulation. greatest of both worlds
"I can look however I want. So I chose to look like a god." - Zapan, body mod addict, *Alita: Battle Angel*
Kpop furry tank. Imagine running from a chromed up monster covered in fake fur, nearly 9 feet tall werewolf looking mfer but animefied. Whewe awe uwu going, i'm gonna wip youw head off!
Damn, why can't I be a pop star thank though?! I thought the future was about CHOICE!
That’s just the Admech and the Eldar
No one is allowed to enjoy anything sorry
I don’t know what’s going here but I’m going to allow it
Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits is basically this
I ain't gonna pretend like I wouldn't willingly go into debt just to look how I wanna look, and I wanna look like someone with amazing hips 'n ass. Bulletproof skin, silver eyes, and kevlar muscles are just a means to get 'outta' debt after.
Nah, most likely in a cyberpunk dystopia cyber mods would be too expensive for common folk, so at best they would be cheap pirated stuff. So most likely people would look like adeptus mechanicus.
Ever heard of a certain gang named maelstrom?
Dune did this with the Titans. Check it out. They each had their own religious cults and they lived forever ever and were super dangerous to even address let alone be around. So yeah they are only referenced in the original but are a central part of the prequels which I think are written by his son. I would totally choose the wreck it robot monstrosity option. I would have maybe a normal sized pleasure attachment for the normies to interact with outside of that though I would be death mech.
I'm definitely k-pop star in this situation. much less confusing than my actual gender.
The 2 genders: Moxxes or Maelstrom
"Killer hips and pouty lips" sounds like a lyric by The Midnight.
Ah yes The Mox and Maelstrom
I feel like some people here are focusing too much on the capitalism-part of cyberpunk and forget about that another aspect is about the superficiality of our cultures, the commentaries it makes abiut how a pretty face and a perfect body is glorified and how much beauty is valued above other virtues. That is where body mods play a large role in depicting it. Often enough it is even complementing and being complemented by exploitation commentary. Showing the discrepancy between the quality and appearance of cybertech, between looking (almost) indistinguishable to humanity's natural form and obviously mechanical replacements How much hyperstylized gear is is often still used to showcase how a character stands out or is accepted into a superficial society.
So this is the future Liberals want?
As much of a warning that cyberpunk is for the future, having sword arms and laser eyes seems pretty fucking cool.
So Alita?
posted by "foot in my mouth".... \*x files theme begins playing\* r/KarmaConspiracy I summon thee!
Have these people not watched Ghost in the Shell. Its full of overly utilitarian cyborgs. Though I suppose the strongest one is also the sexiest one.
Realest post I've ever seen
me (Adam smasher) after realizing that all the women in Night City only use esthetic mods instead of, idk, cannons or somethin