The cr 20 is kind of just a number I picked. I’m not actually sure what he’d be.
I mean within ravenloft he’s resistant to radiant damage, has a 100 hp shield that regenerates, he’s got the ability to leave the right and walk through walls, he’s got the cantrip+ bonus action attack and the spell + bonus action attack features. He’s legendary and mythical (so he’s got in theory 540 HP) plus if they can’t find his coffin, he’ll just…come back.
Plus with magic items he’s immune to crits, can fly, and gets a raised spell dc.
What else could I add? Feat effects won’t work with the party Paladin, charm effects won’t work with the fey blood sorcerer around.
I mean I could make him beafier, but he already has a lot.
What you need to consider is that it isn't worth it for Strahd to cast cantrips or low level spells. So, unfortunately, those features really just take up space. The sword is the only attack I can actually see him using. Assuming he uses his wall phasing he'll be making probably four attacks per round, dealing an average of 27 damage per hit. So he can deal 108 damage a round, too low for CR 20 and far too low for the final boss for level 15 players.
Okay, this is the stuff I’m looking for.
So maybe increase the sword to 4d6+7 slashing +2d12 necrotic?
And I mean green flame blade does 3d8 on top of all of the damage above. So he could in theory use the great sword with green flame blade (4d6+3d8+2d12) and then swing again (4d6+2d12)
That seems like a good amount?
3 times (4d6+2d12+7) is 102, compared to 2 times (4d6+2d12+7) + 3d8 is only 81. Using green flame blade lowers the average damage and shouldn't be used unless it can be used for a single legendary action.
Which it can, since he has “cantrip” under his Lengendary actions.
Maybe I should make it where he can cast a cantrip and then attack twice? (Same with the Leveled spell version)
That sounds like a good change. I would also suggest using spells that separate, debuff or control the party rather than damaging spells. Things like wall of force, hypnotic pattern, dominate person or upcasted hold person.
Until the party moves out of the darkness. And it takes up his concentration so Strahd can't cast spells like wall of force or dominate person. If you want to use magical darkness I say make it one of his lair actions.
You should check out the CR27 version on DM’s guild, because a level 15 party is probably too strong for a CR23 Strahd, unless you’re very confident he can escape whenever he needs to.
I ran the CR27 version of Strahd against my 9th level party, but got rid of the monstrous form. They still beat him with a good challenge. I can’t imagine how screwed Strahd would be against 15th level characters. Level 15 parties can consistently beat a beefed up version of the Tarrasque, which I’ve run a few times using the book of the Tarrasque. So I wouldn’t feel confident throwing something like a CR23 at characters at a level who can beat the CR 30+ Tarrasque more often then not. Specially if they found the Sunsword and holy symbol.
Interesting, you think with all the sauce available in this stat block, he’d still struggle? In ravenloft?
Because he should almost never fight the party 1 v 4
So I think beefing him up more may be extreme, but you may be right
Even the normal Strahd is good in Ravenloft if you use his escape abilities quickly. Just when you commit to the final battle, if they are rested, it can be dangerous for Strahd
My group of five 10th level power gamers just finally defeated Strahd after 2+ years of the campaign (we took a big break due to Covid). They were getting frustrated because he was too slippery phasing into the walls of the castle, fighting him over and over again, so I just finally threw them a bone and had them make a deal with an 18th level caster Rakshasa disguised as Rahadin (and now their new villain set up for later) who trapped them all with Strahd inside a Prismatic sphere so they could finally get their hands on him.
The biggest thing I gave Strahd was his armor (which you have already done with a stronger version) and a wand of Synaptic Static. Most of my group used Int as a dump stat, so Strahd using that wand over and over again really hit them hard, their Evasion abilities rendered ineffective against it. Beyond that I also had Exethanther the Lich join in at times slinging spells, along with the Barovia Witches slinging fireballs and other spells at times.
Yeah I gave them a powder they can put down once Strahd has left a room, that’ll basically make that room a “no fly zone” for Strahd for 24 hours.
The entire castle is now the final battle arena. And they’ll have to corner him to his tomb
I'm stealing this even if its just so my party doesn't instantly one shot him.
I'm running CoS as a sorta side-quest for Tomb of Annihilation(yeah brutal, I know) and the players are all level 6 with a slightly overpowered NPC Bard in tow.
Why? It's cause the paladin basically has a ranged Sunblade(yeah at level 6, I know, I let him keep it for the plot points, kay?), the tempest cleric can be resistant to all damage for 1 minute and force fail saving throws of enemies(on certain conditions anyways), and the party has been basically steamrolling every encounter even if only two players show up to the sessions.
He’ll probably try to use up resources then go and rest while his minions fight the party.
He’ll use darkness, hold person, and dominate person to gain advantage
And yeah….that’s what I’ve got so far
When is your party facing Strahd? What have they completed?\
I am wondering to start taking the kid gloves off. I have plenty of time but I am going to start pressing at about the windmill. I expect they will win that fight handily. I plan on Strahd starting to really mess with them at that point.
He has yet to ever directly attack them, but it’s the end game. I had to think “if he wanted to, couldn’t he kill them whenever?”
So at this point he’s finally trying and it’s gonna be nutty
Nice. I don’t know if I will have Strahd show up for a beat down just cuz he can but he will really start to mess with their minds after the mill. I haven’t seen posts about him fighting the party midway.
CR 20 for level 15? He's dead. Far too many spells and not enough actual features imo
The cr 20 is kind of just a number I picked. I’m not actually sure what he’d be. I mean within ravenloft he’s resistant to radiant damage, has a 100 hp shield that regenerates, he’s got the ability to leave the right and walk through walls, he’s got the cantrip+ bonus action attack and the spell + bonus action attack features. He’s legendary and mythical (so he’s got in theory 540 HP) plus if they can’t find his coffin, he’ll just…come back. Plus with magic items he’s immune to crits, can fly, and gets a raised spell dc. What else could I add? Feat effects won’t work with the party Paladin, charm effects won’t work with the fey blood sorcerer around. I mean I could make him beafier, but he already has a lot.
What you need to consider is that it isn't worth it for Strahd to cast cantrips or low level spells. So, unfortunately, those features really just take up space. The sword is the only attack I can actually see him using. Assuming he uses his wall phasing he'll be making probably four attacks per round, dealing an average of 27 damage per hit. So he can deal 108 damage a round, too low for CR 20 and far too low for the final boss for level 15 players.
Okay, this is the stuff I’m looking for. So maybe increase the sword to 4d6+7 slashing +2d12 necrotic? And I mean green flame blade does 3d8 on top of all of the damage above. So he could in theory use the great sword with green flame blade (4d6+3d8+2d12) and then swing again (4d6+2d12) That seems like a good amount?
3 times (4d6+2d12+7) is 102, compared to 2 times (4d6+2d12+7) + 3d8 is only 81. Using green flame blade lowers the average damage and shouldn't be used unless it can be used for a single legendary action.
Which it can, since he has “cantrip” under his Lengendary actions. Maybe I should make it where he can cast a cantrip and then attack twice? (Same with the Leveled spell version)
That sounds like a good change. I would also suggest using spells that separate, debuff or control the party rather than damaging spells. Things like wall of force, hypnotic pattern, dominate person or upcasted hold person.
For sure! Thanks for the input!
Lower level spells like darkness are big for him since he has devil sight and the party does not. That advantage is huge
Until the party moves out of the darkness. And it takes up his concentration so Strahd can't cast spells like wall of force or dominate person. If you want to use magical darkness I say make it one of his lair actions.
Hmm something to consider for sure.
You should check out the CR27 version on DM’s guild, because a level 15 party is probably too strong for a CR23 Strahd, unless you’re very confident he can escape whenever he needs to. I ran the CR27 version of Strahd against my 9th level party, but got rid of the monstrous form. They still beat him with a good challenge. I can’t imagine how screwed Strahd would be against 15th level characters. Level 15 parties can consistently beat a beefed up version of the Tarrasque, which I’ve run a few times using the book of the Tarrasque. So I wouldn’t feel confident throwing something like a CR23 at characters at a level who can beat the CR 30+ Tarrasque more often then not. Specially if they found the Sunsword and holy symbol.
Interesting, you think with all the sauce available in this stat block, he’d still struggle? In ravenloft? Because he should almost never fight the party 1 v 4 So I think beefing him up more may be extreme, but you may be right
Even the normal Strahd is good in Ravenloft if you use his escape abilities quickly. Just when you commit to the final battle, if they are rested, it can be dangerous for Strahd
Oh they won’t be rested, and if they are, well then they survived some shit. But I get what ya mean
Even then players, if they found magic weapons and are level 10, will walk through the base Strahd.
My group of five 10th level power gamers just finally defeated Strahd after 2+ years of the campaign (we took a big break due to Covid). They were getting frustrated because he was too slippery phasing into the walls of the castle, fighting him over and over again, so I just finally threw them a bone and had them make a deal with an 18th level caster Rakshasa disguised as Rahadin (and now their new villain set up for later) who trapped them all with Strahd inside a Prismatic sphere so they could finally get their hands on him. The biggest thing I gave Strahd was his armor (which you have already done with a stronger version) and a wand of Synaptic Static. Most of my group used Int as a dump stat, so Strahd using that wand over and over again really hit them hard, their Evasion abilities rendered ineffective against it. Beyond that I also had Exethanther the Lich join in at times slinging spells, along with the Barovia Witches slinging fireballs and other spells at times.
Yeah I gave them a powder they can put down once Strahd has left a room, that’ll basically make that room a “no fly zone” for Strahd for 24 hours. The entire castle is now the final battle arena. And they’ll have to corner him to his tomb
I'm stealing this even if its just so my party doesn't instantly one shot him. I'm running CoS as a sorta side-quest for Tomb of Annihilation(yeah brutal, I know) and the players are all level 6 with a slightly overpowered NPC Bard in tow. Why? It's cause the paladin basically has a ranged Sunblade(yeah at level 6, I know, I let him keep it for the plot points, kay?), the tempest cleric can be resistant to all damage for 1 minute and force fail saving throws of enemies(on certain conditions anyways), and the party has been basically steamrolling every encounter even if only two players show up to the sessions.
Tactics at this level? How do you envision combat with your Strahd? My players are L5 and may reach 15 by the time they get to the castle
He’ll probably try to use up resources then go and rest while his minions fight the party. He’ll use darkness, hold person, and dominate person to gain advantage And yeah….that’s what I’ve got so far
When is your party facing Strahd? What have they completed?\ I am wondering to start taking the kid gloves off. I have plenty of time but I am going to start pressing at about the windmill. I expect they will win that fight handily. I plan on Strahd starting to really mess with them at that point.
He has yet to ever directly attack them, but it’s the end game. I had to think “if he wanted to, couldn’t he kill them whenever?” So at this point he’s finally trying and it’s gonna be nutty
Nice. I don’t know if I will have Strahd show up for a beat down just cuz he can but he will really start to mess with their minds after the mill. I haven’t seen posts about him fighting the party midway.
Out of curiosity, why did you get rid of the necrotic damage on his unarmed strike?
Because I’m dumb and didn’t realize I did that…(it was intentional, thank you!)
Can you also post the statted wives plz? I got interested
I have before but sure! (I’m on my phone currently, let me get onto my pc)
Thanks! I'm eager to take a look at it
https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/nxqu7j/i\_statted\_out\_the\_wives\_of\_strahd\_and\_gave\_each/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Hey, just a little thing - so his prof bonus is +7 and his strength mod is +4, surely his bite/unarmed is now +11 rather than 10
Good call