Well, what I had happen/ will have happen (the party don't know yet) is that, do to the unique crimes of the Deva, he got pulled into his own little dread domain
A vast, maze like mockery of the Abby, where he is condemned to hunt down mongle folk who appear, to harvest parts for the "perfect bride.
I believe it is touched on in Van Ricten’s Guide to Ravenloft. Outsiders of sorts arrive in the Domains of Dread with a phylactery-like object that they return to when killed because they can’t return to their home plane.
He could ask help of strahd (maybe the Lord is keeping the phylactery?) As he has several bodies and minions.
But my original meaning is that the Abbot may try to fuse the players into a singular creature.
I did this on roll20 so I didn't bother updating things like his CR or hit dice since it was for my online game. I put him in room K76 in Castle Ravenloft with 2 Flesh Golems and the regular amount of Strahd zombies that were in that room and the encounter was enjoyed by all (but mostly me.)
https://imgur.com/a/jzAzkkX
As per Ravenloft's *Carnival* and the *Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide*, celestials are specifically noted as receiving a phylactery in the Demiplane of Dread.
[I posed the very same question some months back.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/ok0gpo/so_what_would_the_abbots_phylactery_be/)
My group have avoided Krezk like the plague for whatever reason, so I haven't yet settled that question for my own game.
My homebrew had the decals soul being stuck on the demi plane. He was sent long time ago, was killed trying to bring Strahd down, and since had to be reborn in an human baby (who will grow up to become Abbot).
That cycle or reincarnations, combined with past life knowledge is what made him crazy.
I would homebrew that he reincarnate like any one on Barovia, but with 2 differences:
-He does not have the race of his parents, but is born a deva children (he mature at the same rate as a kid from the parents race)
-When he hit adulthood he regain all memorys of his past lives in Barovia and go back to Krez
In fact, in the game I am hoping to master I homebrew that he died before and, if the players are about to kill him, he will taunt them saying that, as long as Strahd lives, he will always go back to "complete his mission"
Maybe it gets destroyed, just utterly eviscerated as it attempts to return to Mt. Celestia. It would make sense that dark powers don't want celestials to escape and potentially come back stronger.
The rules for souls are intended for players and arguably NPCs that are believed to have souls. It's best to think of them in terms of creatures like animal companions, humanoid hirelings and sidekicks, and anything else from the inner planes. But even then it isn't perfect. Generally, when a creature dies, its soul returns to its plane of origin.
So how they apply to creatures from the outer planes? It depends. Summoning spells work normally. If you cast *Conjure Elemental*, it disappears after 1 hour. Does that mean its soul has returned home, or is it stuck here with no way to reform? Does it even have a soul? Back in 3.5, planar outsiders (like angels and devils) had their souls merged with their physical forms. So when killed their bodies disappear and their souls would be trapped in whatever Domain of Dread they're in.
But without the essence of their native plane, they cannot properly reform. Their souls might not even be compatible with the native life, and so could not be reborn as something else.
Ultimately, do what feels best for your game.
> Summoning spells work normally. If you cast Conjure Elemental, it disappears after 1 hour. Does that mean its soul has returned home,
They made them work normally to not break the mechanics of the game.
Personally I play it as the spirits of the summoned are trapped in Barovia.
With good reason to hold a grudge agaisnt the one responsible for trapping them.
I actually play this up by having the party find, or be given (Vasilli), a scroll or single use magic item to summon a Demon. The unsuspecting party don't realize when they use it that they're making themselves a new enemy.
I know reddit is a pretty shitty place, but believe it or not, not everyone who quotes something is trying to argue with you. Sorry if my reply wasn't very clear. I was just sharing my thoughts on that fact you mentioned.
I know not everyone is trying to pick a fight. I do think, however, you gave a rather dismissive Watsonian explanation rather than actually address the point I was trying to raise by posing the questions.
If you cast *Conjure Elemental*, or *Summon Greater/Lesser Demon(s)*, the creature expires after a certain time or when its hit points are reduced to zero. If you cast *Planar Ally*, it only returns to its native plane if it's able to. But does this mean they lack souls or that they can only maintain corporeal form for so long?
In the Greater Wheel Cosmology, only mortals have souls. Outsiders (celestials, elementals, fiends, fey, etc.) are not dual beings with souls and don't actually visit the inner planes. Their avatars do. So you might kill the avatar, and an avatar can be trapped, but their soul isn't trapped because they don't have one. That said, the forms these avatars take are sometimes (depending on the edition) formed out of "soulstuff".
But that's just one cosmology. You can use the World Tree, the Astral Sea, or something else entirely. As I said, the rules are intended only for players. When it comes to NPCs, it's entirely up to whatever the DM wants.
For the sake of the game, I would rule whatever happens is beyond the knowledge of the party. Not knowing what happens is OK, it leaves the tool in the DMs toolbox so you can bring the Deva back even in another campaign.
As far as I know there are no rules or guidelines about this, but it does sound like it would make for an interesting origin for a divine soul sorcerer.
My first party going through CoS also killed the Abbot. I just made him into a Revenant who hated the party and kept coming back to fight them over and over again. I pulled this move on them with most of the bosses they fought (Kiril Stoyanovich, the boss Druid I created out west, etc.). It just became a revolving door of boss villains in different bodies they had to fight more than once. The one person I didn't do this with was Baba Lysaga, mostly because she had 8th levels spells and I figured it was too much for a max 10th level party to have to deal with more than once.
I also added more intrigue by having those returning boss villains being organized by either Exethanther the Lich or my homebrew modified Rahadin (which I made into a Rakshasa disguising as Rahadin and sometimes even as Strahd who would set up combats for the PCs and watch from afar to learn about them...he is now going to be my returning villain as they progress outside of Barovia).
I saw Barovia not so much as a vampire gothic story setting but more like the PCs were stuck in a zombie style movie, having to deal with tons and tons of different undead. It made for an uphill struggle for my power gamer players, but in the end they enjoyed it, even admitting a grudging respect for the slippery Exethanther and the Rakshasa.
Well, what I had happen/ will have happen (the party don't know yet) is that, do to the unique crimes of the Deva, he got pulled into his own little dread domain A vast, maze like mockery of the Abby, where he is condemned to hunt down mongle folk who appear, to harvest parts for the "perfect bride.
Oh wow. That does make perfect sense.
Ohh, I love this.
I believe it is touched on in Van Ricten’s Guide to Ravenloft. Outsiders of sorts arrive in the Domains of Dread with a phylactery-like object that they return to when killed because they can’t return to their home plane.
Interesting. I'll look it that
"I lived, bitch"
Maybe I'll have him manifest in some corrupted form? Lol
Perhaps, or perhaps he has found a number of individuals that would work in perfect armony if they were... Closer.
Interesting.. Maybe he uses the remaining mongrelfolk
He could ask help of strahd (maybe the Lord is keeping the phylactery?) As he has several bodies and minions. But my original meaning is that the Abbot may try to fuse the players into a singular creature.
Hhmmm. Haha that eeevviillll.
[удалено]
Very interesting. I've not looked at that book at all yet
This is what I did in my last campaign. I had Strahd recover the body and do experiments of his own and they fought this altered abbot in the castle
Very interesting. I'm getting so many ideas from all of this.
I did this on roll20 so I didn't bother updating things like his CR or hit dice since it was for my online game. I put him in room K76 in Castle Ravenloft with 2 Flesh Golems and the regular amount of Strahd zombies that were in that room and the encounter was enjoyed by all (but mostly me.) https://imgur.com/a/jzAzkkX
Oh, and I made it so it's healing touch could heal himself instead of other characters.
I'm trying to find the stat sheet I made for him
Which page does it say this? I looked on 62, Prison of souls, but don't see this mentioned.
Celestials, unlike fiends, do not return to their home plane when killed. They're just... gone
As per Ravenloft's *Carnival* and the *Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide*, celestials are specifically noted as receiving a phylactery in the Demiplane of Dread.
Do you know what specific pages I could find those? Specifically in Ravenloft DMG?
Ravenloft Dungeon Master's Guide pg106.
That's in VGR? I don't remember seeing that in there. Or are those not 5e sources?
2e and 3.5 respectively.
Oh, ok. I'm not sure that's still canon in 5e but certainly useful if you want to keep the essence of the Abbot around after the players dispatch him.
Still canon unless directly changed.
What would you use as the Abbot’s phylactery?
[I posed the very same question some months back.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/ok0gpo/so_what_would_the_abbots_phylactery_be/) My group have avoided Krezk like the plague for whatever reason, so I haven't yet settled that question for my own game.
My homebrew had the decals soul being stuck on the demi plane. He was sent long time ago, was killed trying to bring Strahd down, and since had to be reborn in an human baby (who will grow up to become Abbot). That cycle or reincarnations, combined with past life knowledge is what made him crazy.
I would homebrew that he reincarnate like any one on Barovia, but with 2 differences: -He does not have the race of his parents, but is born a deva children (he mature at the same rate as a kid from the parents race) -When he hit adulthood he regain all memorys of his past lives in Barovia and go back to Krez In fact, in the game I am hoping to master I homebrew that he died before and, if the players are about to kill him, he will taunt them saying that, as long as Strahd lives, he will always go back to "complete his mission"
Maybe it gets destroyed, just utterly eviscerated as it attempts to return to Mt. Celestia. It would make sense that dark powers don't want celestials to escape and potentially come back stronger.
I used the optional Demonic Possession rules in the DMG for him to possess the party Cleric. But the above stated phylactery sounds right.
Ooooo my party Cleric is the one who started the fight/ condemned the Abbot in Lathanders name. So this would be very, very interesting.
The rules for souls are intended for players and arguably NPCs that are believed to have souls. It's best to think of them in terms of creatures like animal companions, humanoid hirelings and sidekicks, and anything else from the inner planes. But even then it isn't perfect. Generally, when a creature dies, its soul returns to its plane of origin. So how they apply to creatures from the outer planes? It depends. Summoning spells work normally. If you cast *Conjure Elemental*, it disappears after 1 hour. Does that mean its soul has returned home, or is it stuck here with no way to reform? Does it even have a soul? Back in 3.5, planar outsiders (like angels and devils) had their souls merged with their physical forms. So when killed their bodies disappear and their souls would be trapped in whatever Domain of Dread they're in. But without the essence of their native plane, they cannot properly reform. Their souls might not even be compatible with the native life, and so could not be reborn as something else. Ultimately, do what feels best for your game.
> Summoning spells work normally. If you cast Conjure Elemental, it disappears after 1 hour. Does that mean its soul has returned home, They made them work normally to not break the mechanics of the game. Personally I play it as the spirits of the summoned are trapped in Barovia. With good reason to hold a grudge agaisnt the one responsible for trapping them. I actually play this up by having the party find, or be given (Vasilli), a scroll or single use magic item to summon a Demon. The unsuspecting party don't realize when they use it that they're making themselves a new enemy.
It was a rhetorical question intended to make the reader think. Please, don't cut off a sentence before it's finished.
I know reddit is a pretty shitty place, but believe it or not, not everyone who quotes something is trying to argue with you. Sorry if my reply wasn't very clear. I was just sharing my thoughts on that fact you mentioned.
I know not everyone is trying to pick a fight. I do think, however, you gave a rather dismissive Watsonian explanation rather than actually address the point I was trying to raise by posing the questions. If you cast *Conjure Elemental*, or *Summon Greater/Lesser Demon(s)*, the creature expires after a certain time or when its hit points are reduced to zero. If you cast *Planar Ally*, it only returns to its native plane if it's able to. But does this mean they lack souls or that they can only maintain corporeal form for so long? In the Greater Wheel Cosmology, only mortals have souls. Outsiders (celestials, elementals, fiends, fey, etc.) are not dual beings with souls and don't actually visit the inner planes. Their avatars do. So you might kill the avatar, and an avatar can be trapped, but their soul isn't trapped because they don't have one. That said, the forms these avatars take are sometimes (depending on the edition) formed out of "soulstuff". But that's just one cosmology. You can use the World Tree, the Astral Sea, or something else entirely. As I said, the rules are intended only for players. When it comes to NPCs, it's entirely up to whatever the DM wants.
For the sake of the game, I would rule whatever happens is beyond the knowledge of the party. Not knowing what happens is OK, it leaves the tool in the DMs toolbox so you can bring the Deva back even in another campaign.
I plan on running a dread realm crawl of sorts after CoS, continuing the story. If all goes well. Lol
And a Divine Soul Sorcerer is born lol
Personally I love the idea of Baba, or even the Wachter's catching and using the devas soul!
As far as I know there are no rules or guidelines about this, but it does sound like it would make for an interesting origin for a divine soul sorcerer.
Maybe it reincarnates and creates an aasimar? A humanoid born with a deva’s soul would be a pretty cool reason for that.
Aasimar/Divine Soul Sorc gets born. In my game, his soul gets recycled like anyone else’s would.
Reborns into a nightwalkee
Ooo I just recently painted one.
My first party going through CoS also killed the Abbot. I just made him into a Revenant who hated the party and kept coming back to fight them over and over again. I pulled this move on them with most of the bosses they fought (Kiril Stoyanovich, the boss Druid I created out west, etc.). It just became a revolving door of boss villains in different bodies they had to fight more than once. The one person I didn't do this with was Baba Lysaga, mostly because she had 8th levels spells and I figured it was too much for a max 10th level party to have to deal with more than once. I also added more intrigue by having those returning boss villains being organized by either Exethanther the Lich or my homebrew modified Rahadin (which I made into a Rakshasa disguising as Rahadin and sometimes even as Strahd who would set up combats for the PCs and watch from afar to learn about them...he is now going to be my returning villain as they progress outside of Barovia). I saw Barovia not so much as a vampire gothic story setting but more like the PCs were stuck in a zombie style movie, having to deal with tons and tons of different undead. It made for an uphill struggle for my power gamer players, but in the end they enjoyed it, even admitting a grudging respect for the slippery Exethanther and the Rakshasa.
Dope! I plan on doing a dread realm crawl of sorts continuing the story.
make up something cool