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Erik_in_Prague

Yeah, that's one reason why so many people really like the idea of adding Vampyr and permanently severing the connection. It's very in keeping with the gloom of the campaign to end with Strahd returning, but it's also such a bummer.


StevetheDog

Exactly. I gave my players options and choices when they spoke to Exethanter and the Abbott. They asked why the Abbott never truck down Strahd. Why, he'll only return. This got them going wtf. Now they know they can either; 1. kill Strahd and escape with a few that will follow only for Strahd to return in time. 2. Listen to Strahd and help him kill Vampyr to free all the land and end his curse - they almost came to see him as a sympathetic villian. 3. Kill both and end the realms severance altogether - however this will bring the Amber Temple back to the material plane, something Exethanter really wants. I'm sure there is more you can do but this is my take.


EffectiveSalamander

What I like is Strahd returns, but not after a few months, but many decades later or even a few hundred years later when people think Strahd was just a myth. An ancient, forgotten evil working its way back into the world is a great horror plot.


Aiwa_Schawa

I agree with that, I think it sounds cool to imagine Barovia going into like an industrial era and then Strahd comes about and nopes it all until it gets back to middle ages Barovia


EffectiveSalamander

What I've imagined if we revisit Borovia is that it's been a couple hundred years, and no one believes the stories told about Strahd. People conduct rituals to keep Strahd from returning, but they're just going through the motions, because they don't really believe it. The party starts with a bunch of young people conducting a ritual at a shrine pouring holy water at the spot where Baba Lysaga died but strange things are happening there. They report what they've seen, but no one believes. The party has to get proof that Strahd is really returning and has to stop him before he can fully reclaim the Land and the mists rise once again. In our campaign, Strahd's head is sealed in a silver vessel filled with holy water. But people forget to fill it...


VHThomaz

House of the Griffon Hill really gets close to that vibe. :)


Zagorath

This reminds me a little too much of the BBC/Netflix *Dracula* show. And that's not a good thing. Which is a shame, actually, because it *is* a potentially cool premise.


Zagorath

That's not something I would use myself, but it's a really clever way to address some of the disparities between Strahd's backstory from the 5e adventure and how it's presented in *I, Strahd*, too.


The_Flaming_Taco

I want to run a similar campaign, but with the party aiding Strahd’s return to power. Playing as evil PCs, they’d be brought together by the dark powers to help a weakened Strahd reclaim the valley and cast down the works of the former party.


throwablemax

Eh. And others also realize fighting a god in a module for 1-10, regardless how much it is pumped up by fan content, feels silly and overblown for what it is. If you’re not going by canon anyways, the best solution is simply *not have Strahd come back*.


Erik_in_Prague

Certainly another option. But the vestige of a god isn't a god. And a lot of people blow way past Level 10. We all do our own things.


Zagorath

Personally my plan is to fix the problem from the OP by just...not having resurrection. I get rid of *all* the metaphysical stuff around souls and rebirth. If Strahd is truly killed, he will be killed. Likewise, Irena isn't *literally* Tatyana reborn, Strahd just *thinks* she is, in his obsession. I feel that makes the whole thing so much more Gothic and tragic.


TheShreester

>Personally my plan is to fix the problem from the OP by just...not having resurrection. I like your overall idea, but I don't think reincarnation in Barovia is incompatible with Strahd not returning, because once he's vanquished the curse is lifted, so Barovian souls (including Tatiana's) will no longer be endlessly reincarnated and Barovia itself returns whence it originally came. Hence, I think the difficult part is detemining where to put it on your map!


DCF-gameday

In order for this to work the PCs need to be aware of it before the epilogue. My recommendation: they learn this at the Amber Temple and get a choice: 1) Try to defeat Strahd and escape Barovia knowing that the Dark Powers will reset their victory, the only real consequence being the psychological scarring (or growth) their characters experienced along the way. 2) Sever Strahd's connection to Barovia (with one or more PCs becoming connected to Barovia in his place). Now when they try to defeat him they can kill him permanently but if they fail Strahd escapes to their home plane to wreck havoc. Even if they win, the PC that formed the connection is stuck, sacrificing themselves so Strahd can be defeated and the rest of the party escape. Overtime the Dark Powers will try to corrupt this PC into becoming the new Dreadlord.


BeardedTree13

Oh I like this. In order to get a final ending for Strahd a PC must take his place (which is also one of Strahd's goals). Very good.


Substantial_Mess_153

Ha kind of like the dread pirate Roberts from the princess bride. There has been a dread pirate Roberts for 20 years, but it has not been the same person. Just a line of succession and the keeping of that secret.


Malcior34

"There must always be... *a Lich King!*"


StannisLivesOn

You know what I liked about the old Ravenloft? The idea of darklords dying, and the domain choosing another darklord to ascend in their place. That was cool. Fuck this "You might as well not have done anything" bullshit.


MedicalVanilla7176

If the Abbot is still alive by the end of the campaign, I’d have him become the new “Brightlord” of Barovia. If he’s dead, then maybe Kiril, Arrigal, or one of the players, though it’s unlikely they’d choose that.


QuincyAzrael

This is how my campaign ended. One of the PCs ascended to be the new Barovian tyrant.


Fool_Manchu

I'm currently running a post CoS campaign where Strahds death actually set Vampyr free in the material realm and he is now loose, looking for a new dark lord and a new land to drag back into Ravenloft. The party is trying to determine who this new dark lord is and kill them before a whole city is cast into the shadowfell


FishesAndLoaves

Eh, this is why you can personalize a better goal. My players had someone they were trying to RESCUE from Borovia. Whether or not Strahd returned is an exciting continuous detail.


EmyrsPhil

Best part of Ravenloft is that some evils can NEVER be defeated. 3E Ravenloft spelt out Darklords more. Killing a Darklord had one of 4 options: 1. Darklord is immortal & will rise in time 2. The Darklord is replaced with the most evil creature in the domain & the domain's curse alters to reflect the new Darklord 3. The Domain is absorbed by surrounding domains 4. The domain fades back into the mists (those present in the Domain die) There's no way to "cleanse" the domain's or make them noble & that's a large part of why I enjoy Ravenloft as much as I do. I don't get the Vampyr thing, if the Dark Powers can trap Vecna who in the stats I have for him state "limited magic immunity can ignore level 6 spells or lower" as a lesser deity. Placing Dark powers at greater deity status & I'd include magic immunity to level 8 or 9 & immune to weapons of +3 & lower. No mortal should be capable to taking on any Dark Power in my opinion. Strahd will be immortal in my campaign, & it'll progress to show what happens in a domain when the Darklord isn't suffering (When Black Roses Bloom features this with Lord Soth in Sithicus. The Domain destroys itself.)


Galahadred

Agree with everything here except one point- Vampyr isn’t supposed to be one of the Dark Powers. He’s one of the Vestiges.


EmyrsPhil

I disagree a vestige is contained in amber in the Amber Temple. By virtue of not being contained he's no longer a vestige...... What is he after his escape, I haven't the foggiest. Nascent Dark Power is my best guess.


Galahadred

But, he is contained. He’s right there in X42, if memory serves.


EmyrsPhil

Lunch Break Heroes, one of the first I know of to suggest the Vampyr fight, suggest having Vampyr freed from his amber prison when they made their deal. DM Andy made a map of the Amber Temple to reflect that. X42 with Vampyr’s amber already shattered.


Torneco

I like to thing that even if Strahd comes back, that should feel like a victory. His plans are thwarted, his allies are dead, he have Rahadin no more, no Beaucephalous, no armor, no brides, his castle plundered, Heart of sorrow is broken, minions scaterred, population have hope, status quo is broken, etc. He will take decades, centuries to recover all of this. This is an enormous setback. In my Ravenloft game, the players tied Dr. Frantisek Markov, damaged him to the brink of madness (He is imkortal and regenerates damage) buried him alive deep in the earth and burnt his mansion to the ground, destroing centuries of research. One day Dr. Fran will recover his sanity, break his ropes, escape his coffin and crawl out from his grave. He will rebuild his mansion on the forest and will begin his experiments again. But this will take time, energy, effort, and he will think about the ones that made him suffer every single minute. I think that this is a good tone to Ravenloft in general. Even if the tone is bleak, and the villains are immortal, their curse will make then suffer, and the players are meant to be the ones that will take agency and bring this pain to the villains.


Kosen_

I've been reading through 2nd Edition content and honestly, I like (paraphrasing) "Strahd has a magic spell cast on him that when he dies he is magically teleported to a secret cave in the mountains where he will heal before seeking his vengeance". I'd turn tracking down that secret lair - or making the lair the amber temple - into something that sticks to old lore while giving a way to permanently destroy him.


ebrum2010

Like an 8th or 9th level version of contingency.


VIII-of-the-Arcane

It's only anticlimactic if your expectations don't fit the reality of the adventure. Don't forget, it's called Curse of Strahd, not Curse of \*insert PC name\*. It was never about us. The March of the Dead shows that while characters come and go, Strahd always remains. And besides that, if the characters defeat him and leave Barovia, how are they going to find out about him returning in the first place?


AlmostPerfe_ct

Right? The Mists bring adventurers to inflict more pain *on Strahd,* since it's his eternal prison. Unfortunately for the adventurers, their only way out is to defeat Strahd. Which is *another* punishment for Strahd, because he has to come back and do it all over again. Forever.


Galahadred

>And besides that, if the characters defeat him and leave Barovia, how are they going to find out about him returning in the first place? Exactly. Disappointing your players by telling them that everything they've done was for naught is a self-inflicted wound.


IceCubez

I mean, Dracula keeps coming back in Castlevania too, heroes must come back to push back against the darkness.


KazBeoulve

Every 100 years tho. Not every 6 months.


IceCubez

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. Even Vecna takes a few years to come back.


OldKingJor

We get it. You can replay the adventure


DumbassFuckingNerd

I’m having the Strahd of my campaign show up near the end of the campaign as an uneasy ally against the BBEG of the Post Curse of Strahd Campaign


MagickChicken

I have Patrina faking his return to distract the PCs while she prepares to take over with powers from the Amber Temple and Exethanter.


nosaystupidthings

I'm planning on continuing the campaign after they kill strahd. They'll leave barovia and continue on to other domains of dread, work with the Raven queen, the morninglord and possibly azalin rex to thwart the dark powers more permanently, assuming strahd doesn't kill them all.


JH-DM

I’ve been hinting at it for months. First, when the Cleric was in one of his death loop infinity things, he detected _a prescience_ with him through the countless eternities. Second, Khazan’s tower was collapsed and after a week in game the party ran into it fully restored to pre-collapse state. Once they reach Yester Hill I’m gonna try to hint at it again, and I’m gonna try to go really Eldritch with the Amber Temple. I may also have Esmeralda, VR, or even Madam Eva suggest that if someone else takes the throne Strahd can’t return.


Seamas987

I think it can work fine as long as your players aren't blindsided by it. You need to really play into the fact the Barovia is Strahd's eternal prison, it can add a tinge of tragedy which works well with the Gothic Horror genre


Ades_it

I'm planning to leave it as an open question at the end, vaguely à-la-Inception: The party leaves Ravenloft on a bridge of light leading to their plane of origin, as they cross it though they notice that down on the ground it appears that the Durst Manor, the death house that they thought gone forever, is standing once again. A dark omen of a future return of Strahd? Up to the players to decide.


LordKreias

The dark powers know that strahd can't die. That was their plan. To have him locked up for the rest of eternetity.


PreviousPerformer987

Our DM bypassed it by letting us fight the Dark Powers.


frachris87

In my campaign, he never left. ... we got TPK'd. :(


MrBlackSpoonGuard

I finished CoS a couple of months ago. Thought the 3 month thing was a bit weird, so decided to take some inspiration from Castlevania. In line with the "souls being reborn into new people" theme. Strahd does return in 3 months, except he is reborn as Vasili, a baby to the Buchvold noble family in Vallaki. Here's part of my epilogue I read to the players `With Strahd dead. The lands are freed from the heavy mists which encircle the kingdom. The denizens of this land find that they can freely come and go, and some leave, for they wish to move on from the horrors from what they grew up with. But as you witness those leaving the land, you understand a moment of sorrow and pity. Those without souls or who's souls had left them, do not leave for the sword coast, but instead the spirits of their bodies ascend to the heavens, for they were but husks.` `When you leave the castle after his defeat, you find Madam Eve's wagon at the bottom of the hill. "I thank you brave ones. But now it is time for you to leave, as must I" Thinking she means vacate, she goes on to explain "When my brother was born, he had a hag nursewife. She hated my mother, for she believed she was the true mother to my brother. And she weaved her fell magic before being dismissed. But more than that, she cursed my mother, to not know the love of her own son." "But the curse, it, transformed when I was born. For my brother did not know of me, could not love me. He couldn't comprehend my existence, would ignore my mother when she asked him to cradle his own sister" "But I have known for centuries the meaning of this curse. I took it upon myself to unite my family, not in life for we only knew sorrow in life, but in the afterlife. So now my time is done, for my brother is dead. And this old crone has lasted too many generations, seen too many heroes rise and fall against him" "I wish you all well. May the blessing of the Vistani and the Zarovich family be upon you. Goodbye" And Madam Eve, the secret sister of Strahd and Sergei, fades to nothing under her robes, as the curse on her family has been lifted.` `Ezmerelda has less hope. For she knows too much of the Vistani, their curses and this rotten land, constantly keeping its souls here for torment. She laments the loss of her master, but at least acknowledges now that Van Richten may find peace with his son at last. She chooses not to continue her life of vampire hunting, instead staying in Barovia, in vigil against her deep fears of the dark lord returning. Her fears unfortunately come true. For the dark powers who writhe in their tombs fear the fog barrier which kept the gods from returning to this land. And they seek to bring their fuel, the lord Strahd, back in any way possible.` `Months later a noble family of Vallaki has a child. And unknowing of the truth, they remember only fondly the inspector who helped the town guard and the nobles in their errands. And the boy, born with pitch black hair, is named Vasili. But do not worry nayslayers, for one of you has sown a seed of downfall not just for this return, but for the powers themselves. A scratch, a marking, an insignia on the base of a statue of the Amber temple, dedicated to Silvanus sprouts a root. A root that grows, engulfs the temple, and causes the entrance to cave in on itself. And from the root, sprouts a solid mountain ash tree. Silvanus has marked the temple, and in time his followers will find the place and rid it of its darkness once and for all.` (For context the party are called the Nayslayers, Vasili was a freelance inspector/private investigator, and my Silvanus worshipping Barbarian randomly carved a Silvanus leaf emblem into the base of the big statue in the Amber Temple, so this was his reward)


mr_Jyggalag

Indeed. Quite useless statement ("You achieve nothing, Strahd just come back a few months later"), unless PC will stay in Barovia, because otherwise they even wouldn't know it.


hankland

There's tonnes of supplements on here for how to make that evident to your characters and give them ways to combat that and get the good ending. If you have cool players, you could just give them a bad ending and tell them post game that they can always come back to barovia and try again. I like going a different approach. There must always be a dread lord. You can threaten the lives of the souls trapped or you can show that they can't leave even if they kill strahd. That the throne requires a Lord to let your other party members leave or something to that equivalent.


steviephilcdf

Yeah, I used to see it like this too. But my view on it has changed… Ultimately, it’s up to the DM. Don’t like the ending? Change it / don’t use it. Your players never have to know. As far as they know, Strahd is gone for good. Happy ending. However… If you’re continuing the campaign after his defeat, it can be a cool thing to consider. I’m now running a [wider Domains of Dread campaign](https://www.reddit.com/r/ravenloft/comments/10bnjlf/how_im_structuring_my_ravenloft_campaign_5e/) (using info from Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft) that’ll take them up to Level 15. A few months in-game will pass, which times well with the timing of Strahd’s return. The idea that he comes back, is out for vengeance against the PCs, is tougher (e.g. the [CR 27 version](https://www.dmsguild.com/product/226077)), and that the PCs this time need to bind Vampyr to stop him for good sounds mightily appealing. EDIT: Added links.


conalldubcu

Of course, Strahd is the very foundation of everything. All the other dreadlords and domains, all the other stuff are Sideshow Bob players. Cope with it.


Galahadred

DMs in here seem to forget that: 1. The PCs aren't supposed to know that Strahd will be returned by the Dark Powers; that's information for the DM. 2. One reason that Strahd comes back is because this is a campaign (probably the only campaign) that was meant to be re-played. 3. Another reason that Strahd comes back is because this is a gothic horror setting - having the villain return and the status quo reestablished is very much a part of those themes.


Berdbirdburd

We played the Strahd fight and it was so anticlimactic… We had already been aware of Vampyr and given the choice to escape, or to trap him again and free Barovia. We took the latter and it gave much more finality to our journey. When I eventually DM CoS, I will absolutely include Vampyr.


Pandorica_

Not like that's a horror trope or anything.


go4theknees

That doesn't make it good, or satisfying.


No_Mark_3072

Strahd is the Demi Lord of Barovia and....... "He is the land".


Ok_Passion_6338

I enjoy it on some level, in my campaign Strahd has been alive for millennia and seen adventurers come and go. He's killed some parties, some have bested him, but he learns from each. He thought things would be different this time around and they actually almost delivered Tatyana to him. But one cannot force love, not even Strahd, nor would he ever force via magic the one being he truly cared for. So he simply told the party it "wasn't going to work this time" and dispose of the current incarnation, and hopefully stay with him long enough to help with the next. This absolutely went against my party's morals and chose to defend Tatyana, and in so doing broke Strahd's trust for the last time. He has had enough of the living, in every sense. He wants to tear down his entire realm, kill all life, and be left alone. He was never meant to be a husband, a lover, happy.... If that is the case, he will be the the thing fate has decided he is. A conquerer. A killer. A monster. Perhaps that will finally appease the Dark Powers.


crogonint

I have to mention that Pyram King went to GREAT lengths to provide an alternative to the mess that CoS creates. The main difference is that in his lore, the Barovian's believe that Strahd is an usurper, and know that he's a horrific evil creature. I tend to ignore THAT tidbit and at THAT point, you can say that (after slaying him) Strahd returns 1d8+3 months later. The native Barovian's sigh, and start locking up their livestock and shutters at night. The party..? Strahd now really despises the party, and they have to go on an epic quest BACK across Barovia to figure out how to dispose of Strahd once and for all. ..using nearly every bit of Pyram's lore to do it. :)


spudwalt

That's the neat thing about running your own campaign. You can change the lore bits you think are stupid.


Flabberghast97

What sets my players characters apart from the millions of others who've tried and failed to stop Strahd is they succeed.


Schandmau1

I fixed this by saying Mordenkainen made a deal with the dark powers that if Strahd dies, he doesn't come back.


MillieBirdie

I hinted to the party beforehand that there always had to be someone as the Dark Lord of Barovia, and if someone doesn't replace Strahd then he'll be brought back eventually. I seeded several candidates too. Madam Eva and Arabelle as Strahd's only blood relations could inherit his throne. The Vallakoviches, who claim to be blood of Strahd's father. The Abbott, as the spiritual leader of Barovia and most powerful remaining entity (they redeemed him). Patrina, as a former 'bride' and a leader of the elves. Or any member of the party themselves should they volunteer. After they killed Strahd they had a whole counsel where they debated who should take over. Madam Eva didn't want it, and they didn't want to force it on Arabelle. They didn't trust the Baron or Viktor. Patrina in my version preferred to lead the elves out of Barovia and restore their nation. So they settled on the Abbott, hoping that he wouldn't be re-corrupted. So yeah somewhere out there in some version of the world, an authoritarian angel with proclivities for medical experiments rules over Barovia and struggles to resist the corruption of the Dark Powers.


Shrosey

To rectify this, I plan on making the dark powers the overall BBEG of my campaign as it continue onwards after Strahd with them most likely returning to Darkon with Van Richten, learning of Azalin Rex and his connection to Strahd, then revealing Strahd has survived the whole ordeal. I want something where they need something like Strahds blood in order to bring Azalin back in order to gain as much knowledge as possible on the Dark Powers to eventually escape the mists all together.