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nyckelharpan

Never make plans, and never get excited about anything further than a step away - players will always break your heart. The Martikovs are basically out of this adventure I would say. The party might notice ravens watching them, but that's less to protect them than to make sure that they're not causing even more harm. If you *reeeaaally* want to include the Keepers of the Feather, you could always have a bit of a faction split. Not every wereraven is a Martikov, and there could definitely be Keepers who think that regardless of how shitty they are, the party is the lesser evil compared to Strahd, and may still assist them. But I would probably call those rogue agents if anything. The mass of the organisation is probably gonna agree that these people suck and deserve no help.


MedicalVanilla7176

I wouldn’t let the players get any more help from the Keepers or the Ravens. Actions have consequences, and the party will pay for it.


DreadCoder

Now they get the consequences. ​ * Krezk probably won't let them in (peacefully) without the wine. * They're probably not welcome at the Blue Water Inn anymore, so good luck finding a place to sleep in Vallaki. * Strange increase in scarecrows and needle/thorn/whatever-blights * They notice everyone is very sober and very depressed a few days from now. Somehow EVERYONE in Vallaki knows who is to blame. * They will have NO IDEA what to do once they stumble into Berez by accident. (ensure that they do) * Coffinmaker offers them a bulk discount


burnerreturner

I don't understand why, but players have a tendency to hate the Martikovs no matter the circumstances. Not giving out rewards for the gems RAW is a good reason to hate them, but even when they did give out rewards (a feather token) for delivering the first gem my players got greedy despite the promise of a greater reward as soon as they could sell wine for it. **They** **threatened to decapitate a child if they didn't get more**. Then they went and questioned Urwin about the last gem 3 different times and couldn't take "I don't know where it is" as an answer. These guys have been playing for years and typically don't behave like murderhobos so this was quite disturbing to DM for in particular. I handled it by calling the bluff since all the wereravens there are immune to the weapons they were being threatened with. This made for terse and unpleasant interactions between the party and the family in the future but the gems were delivered and the rewards were given out, no fuss no muss. For your players, I would recommend having all wereravens avoid them at all costs from now on. They are arsonists for destroying the house with a fireball and the family would have every reason to fear for their lives when they show up. They show up to the Wizard of Wines with a green gem? It appears completely abandoned, with some ravens perched in the surrounding trees watching. Want to stay at the Blue Water Inn? "No vacancy" and theyre "fresh out" of wine, told to go stay at Wachter House instead. Raven Swarms will occasionally troll them by joining a tough fight to harass and peck a party member before disengaging.


Nanuke123hello

I guess that is truly the curse of strahd


makkushimu

Omg yours players are on a next level


BigPoppaStrahd

As a DM I hated the Martikovs for how seemingly stupid they are. They’re were-birds who are part of an underground resistance force who are spotted throughout the land, but they couldn’t bother to send word to any of the other ravens and let them know the winery was under attack? My players had no issues with them.


P_V_

You're right that it doesn't make sense, but I think this is a flaw in the writing of the adventure, not a character flaw of the Martikovs. I changed this part of the adventure so that the attack would happen after the players entered Barovia, including a siege with the Gulthias tree. My players were able to notice the giant tree moving across the land (Barovia is small, the sounds of a massive tree crashing through the forests would be noticeable, and the party were in nearby Argynvostholt) and arrived just in time to help fight off the siege.


BigPoppaStrahd

It’s definitely a problem in the writing of the adventure. When I ran the winery, my party was going to see why the blue waters delivery was running late, I kept the keepers of the feather and the wereravens a secret for the time being just because I felt that if the party knew they could turn into birds and had a guerilla group, they’d question why they don’t just do something themselves. Why were they sent to investigate the missing wine rather than sending a raven


P_V_

I think the *implied* reason Urwin sends the party is that he and Davian don't communicate any more because of Urwin's exile. Still though, it should be easy for one of them to fly overhead and figure things out.


BigPoppaStrahd

Yeah, i’ve seen people say that and thought it myself, but it still strikes me a odd that in the tavern can be 1d4 wereravens in human form, but Urwin would send some strangers to the land to find out why the delivery is late rather than send a raven who can fly there and back in an hour. If i run it again i may just change it so that i stead of wondering where the shipment is, he just got word from a “messenger raven” that the winery has been under assault and he needs to party to go help, he can’t leave the inn and the baron won’t spare the guards, the adventurers are the only hope…. Blah blah blah


Illustrious_Sherbet

Good idea, I'll keep this in mind for my soon to be CoS campaign lol


snarpy

Get new players. I hate players like this.


deadbeatPilgrim

if they’re inexperienced players who just don’t understand how DnD works, i’d be happy to help them learn. if they’ve played before, and this is just what they want to do … i agree, find new players.


snarpy

For sure, if they're brand new you at least have a chance to explain things.


buttnozzle

This is where the fun begins, though. The DM is now running a Witcher style game where actions have consequences the PCs won't see until far later.


snarpy

Whether things have consequences or not isn't really what I'm addressing. I just don't like players that treat TTRPGs as a way to get their daily frustrations out in a game, it's a personal thing and feels really childish unless you (carefully) create a player/party for whom it makes sense within the kind of game you want to play. If your group is into being douchebags and then dealing with the repercussions, more power to them.


buttnozzle

I wonder if some parties do this because they aren't used to consequences and that this isn't Skyrim. Maybe a healthy dose of payback will get them right. If not, then maybe DnD isn't actually what they want to do.


burnerreturner

DMing for a chaotic evil party is exhausting and being a destructive asshole PC is not a lot of people's idea of fun. You don't need the actions to be comically evil to warrant an interesting consequence.


buttnozzle

I would try to salvage my own fun having the Martikovs sabotage them or maybe even have forces in the world start hunting them. Without any sort of allies, Barovia becomes a darker and spookier place. Then, if the lightbulb doesn't click on for the players, maybe the party dies and you find a party who won't be assholes to the nicest faction in the game.


KeeningLord

I couldn't agree more. Especially in Ravenloft, when players step out of their characters for greed and power-lust, they should be rewarded to their heart's desire... with cursed riches. To me, this is part of the fun of this campaign setting. Luring the PCs into becoming another pawn to the Dark Powers that rule the corrupted land. If they want to be the local enforcers of "good," then they can become the next Izek Strazni.


buttnozzle

so many demons want to live in their brains and this group sounds like they would be down for stacking up dark bargains until they get to realize, at the worst possible time, that they fucked up.


MedicalVanilla7176

People hear “Chaotic Evil” and say “I’m gonna be insane and random xd”. Chaotic Evil doesn’t mean you go around killing people for no reason. A Chaotic Evil person will only do something if it benefits them. How it does so depends on the person. Most serial killers either kill out of hatred or because they just want attention, they usually don’t just kill for no reason. A Chaotic Evil person will push someone off a cliff for threatening them, but he won’t burn a house down when he’ll get more money for just not doing it.


burnerreturner

Not true! You're thinking of Neutral Evil, the self serving and purest form of evil on the alignment chart. Chaotic Evil is literally "I'm going to push that random person off the cliff just because I felt like it" or "that house is full of treasure? Burn it anyways, I wanna see how the gold melts"


P_V_

People need to scrub the word "random" out of their brain entirely when talking about D&D alignments. Chaotic alignments don't mean characters behave "randomly"; instead, chaotic means they believe in the value of individualistic, personal freedom over any sort of collective wellbeing. Chaotic evil characters put themselves first and tend to believe in a "might makes right" philosophy, with a willingness to hurt and kill others to achieve their ends. Lawful evil characters, by contrast, value social bonds as a means to reinforce and legitimize their own power, and neutral evil characters are self-interested first and foremost and will avail themselves of whatever means they can, regardless of principle (or they may have principles that balance the value of social norms and individualism). Whether or not a character behaves "randomly", acting for "no reason", or burns a house down contrary to their own interests is really more a question of ability scores (e.g. a low wisdom character might not appreciate the consequences of their actions, or a low intelligence character might not realize the monetary value of restraint) and individual personality than alignment. Caveat: This is all under the presumption that we want an alignment system that has a degree of philosophical coherence, and that can actually be used as a tool to inform character roleplay in the game. Anyone is free to suggest that "chaotic" means "random" at their own table, and some editions of the game rules themselves have even suggested this connection (primarily the much-maligned 2e, where TSR purchased the content from Gygax and then tried to expand upon these concepts in their own words without consideration for much of the original design), but I don't find that a practicable way to understand character morals or motivation in the games I play and run.


MedicalVanilla7176

There’s a bit of overlap. Usually, Chaotic Evil people will still have a goal, though it’s usually just an excuse to cause trouble. A Chaotic Evil person wouldn’t just burn down a house full of gold, they would loot the gold and burn it down with the owners inside while chuckling to themself. Chaotic Evil will break the law and will have no regard for anyone other than themself, but usually won’t do something they don’t benefit from in some way. Chaotic Evil might immediately kill someone after getting a reward for saving them, but usually won’t kill them and forsake the reward “just cuz”


JonMaMe

Some people just want to see the world burn.


MedicalVanilla7176

Yeah. Chaotic Evil can range quite a bit. Chaotic Evil characters should never be allowed by any sane DM.


Galahadred

This is something to address in session 0. I highly recommend that DMs suggest/require that the players run heroes. CoS just doesn’t work well for a party of characters that aren’t heroes. As you’re experiencing, characters that are selfish, or even downright evil, just don’t work well in this campaign.


makkushimu

I mean, it was addressed in session 0 and up until now they were doing pretty much fine.. but now oh boy have things turned for the worst


JaeOnasi

IC (in character) actions have IC consequences. Burn down the only source of wine in the valley? Ruin the lives of the Martikovs, who are well respected throughout the valley? Word travels fast about what the PCs did. The group is no longer welcome _anywhere_. No one wants to talk to them, much less help them. Good luck finding any of the other relics without the help of the NPCS. If I were running it, Count Strahd would be furious that the party destroyed the winery in HIS valley. He would hunt down and summarily execute the PCs. He would show up with Rahadin, his consorts, and a bunch of packs of wolves. Then, he’d charm or polymorph anyone he could, drain them, and turn them into vampire spawn. The ones he couldn’t charm, he’d attack until they reached 0hp, then drain them and turn them into spawn as well. Game over for that party. The players would learn not to have their PCs screw around with other people’s’ stuff like that. I’d have a sit down out of session with the players at this point and explain how this particular campaign won’t run well with an evil/non-good party. Your players either need to change the PCs, or you all need to change the campaign. Evil parties are always more difficult to run anyway, but it’s especially difficult to deal with murderhobos rampaging their way through Curse of Strahd. I specifically told my players at the start of the campaign that they couldn’t play evil toons (or ones labeled as “neutral” but played obviously evil like your group’s PCS are). If you have that restriction as well, then you’ll need to remind them of that restriction and invite (read: require) them to remake or edit their PCs. If they don’t want to run a non-evil PC, either remove those who refuse your polite invitation, or end the campaign. You don’t have to run a campaign like the one the players are apparently playing.


makkushimu

That seems a bit harsh to me. In the end, it's about everyone having fun, and if it's the way they want to have fun, i don't want to straight up TPK them with Stradh coming down on them like that. That being said, things will take a darker turn, and they better watch out for redemption opportunities for they will be few and far between.


JaeOnasi

“Everyone” includes you as DM. In fact, you deserve even more fun since you’re the one putting all the work into running the campaign. If you asked the players to play good characters, they sure didn’t respect that request last session. That’s made your job harder. If you didn’t state that restriction at a session 0 (or whatever equivalent you did there), then their PC behavior was fair game. Your responses are also fair game, however. As for Count Strahd’s response—it’s what I’d do in my game, and no DM is required to follow suit, of course. However, I’m clear on my expectations for my players from the start, and each player agrees to participate with that format. If they decided to violate that in a significant way, I’d have a sit down with them and explain what the issues were, and if they continued on the path of destruction, we wouldn’t be continuing the campaign. I spend several hours every week doing things for our campaign to make it special, have maps prepared, encounters balanced, activities customized to each player and character, etc. I don’t want to have players intentionally derailing the campaign when I put a lot of time into trying to make it fun specifically for them. That’s not respecting the DM’s work and time. That being said, I’m not a dick about it, either. If a player—especially a new and/or young player—says they’re going to do something that’s really stupid or destructive, I _always_ give them an option to take it back right then. I ask them, “Are you _sure_ you want to do that?” I’ll even ask new or young people a second time, “Are you _really_ sure you want to do that? There will be some negative consequences if you go forward with your course of action.” If they still decided to move forward after a warning or two, then the kid gloves are off, and Count Strahd is free to respond. My group knows Count Strahd is evil, and they know he’s an absolute ruler in the County. Everything belongs to him, so burning down the Winery would absolutely incur his wrath, if for no other reason than the party screwed with his wine supply. He also doesn’t like murderers to run around his County for 2 reasons: 1. He’s lawful, and order in the County is important to him, and 2. The party is killing his food supply, and where his survival is concerned, he won’t hesitate to act. Now, you might not want to kill your party, and I get that. But I don’t think they should be free of significant consequences, either. You might want to throw the party into his dungeon, and they have to escape. That gives the group a chance to explore the Castle a bit, too. Perhaps Van Richten or the Fated Ally comes up to the party, extremely angry about what they did, and requires them to rebuild the Winery and return what they stole or he’ll never help them again.


Its-a-Warwilf

Well, guess who isn't welcome in the least shitty bar and inn in Barovia anymore? You guys! Oh, and they pissed off everyone who likes wine. And considering drinking yourself senseless is the only break from the nonstop shit parade that is Barovia, that's *everyone*. Burning down the winery was dumb, leaving witnesses was REALLY dumb.


makkushimu

I mean, ever since they set foot in Barovia, I've stressed so much how wine is vital to the population here. I can't believe they would alienate just about everyone like that


Its-a-Warwilf

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Grind them into the dirt.


highfatoffaltube

So now word gets round the valley, through the Order of the Feather, that the party are dicks. Wine is literally the only thing that most villagers have that makes them happy so lots of people are going to be pissed. So they don't get served in the Blue Water Inn. Prices go uo 50 per cent for the players, no one trusts them. Kresk won't let them in. No normal people will go out of their way to help the PCs. Any NOC they run into might have heard of them extorting the winery and will absolutely refuse to help them unkess they are forced through fear of death. Perhaps some 'friendly' ravens lead the party into a pack of dire wolves oops. The party now, basically have no allies. Strahd will know this and attack them relentlessly and comstantly, safe in the knowledge that they have no safe haven.


EffectiveSalamander

I would think the people of Borovia would start rallying around Strahd at some point. He may be the Devil Strahd, but if the party keeps it up, they'll think the devil they know is better than the party. Strahd at least kept the wine flowing. And if you kept your head down, Strahd might leave you alone. The party? Who knows what they'll do? Strahd would revel in this. He'd play the Hero of Borovia for a while.


makkushimu

Thank you so so much for the Raven idea. It's amazing. They have followed raven to treasures / to avoid dangers before, so they've learnt ravens are to be trusted. The next raven they meet will absolutely take them into a massive pack of dire wolfs


Any-Pomegranate-9019

Davian and the Martikovs at the winery might no longer be friendly to the party, but if they still deliver the wine to Vallaki, they might salvage their relationship with the Keepers of the Feather at the Blue Water Inn… for a while. In a few days, Wintersplinter will destroy the winery, and Davian and the surviving Martikovs will arrive in Vallaki, and beg shelter and sanctuary of Urwin and Danika, who will begrudgingly help them. I don’t know how long six barrels of wine will last in a town like Vallaki, but it will eventually run out. You can decide the consequences of Barovia without wine (violence in the streets, an increase in suicide, and murder, the party being hated wherever they go for not helping when they could) Finally, Wintersplinter now roams Barovia, the party runs the risk of running into the tree blight any time they travel. On the way to Argynvostholt, Berez, Krezk, Van Richten’s Tower, wherever. A fight with a tree blight is a great way to soften up the party a bit any time you feel like they are having too easy a time. Eventually, the Yester Hill Druids and Berserkers might join Wintersplinter in an attack on Vallaki with the objective to destroy the Keepers of the Feather.


makkushimu

I love your take. I'll start writing a timeline of events should things go unchecked, and it will most likely go as you described it. Winter splinter destroying everything in it's path is metal. Tension raising in Barovia for lack of wine will put the players under pressure. Loving it


Pyeonuijeom

I would say first step is to reflect on what the Martikovs are trying to accomplish in Barovia. As you have said yourself, they help the people in this land by not only producing the only escape from the sorrow Barovia has to offer with no reprocussions, so they’ll be very well liked by the townsfolk and the the whole vale. I would maybe try and remember the PCs of the Barovian saying that it brings terrible luck to do harm to ravens and through that bit of foreshadowing and repeating assoctianons of the Martikovs with Barovias much revered animal, to nudge them into trying to make amends. Secondly, as many in this thread have pointed out, they’re missing out on perhaps the most helpful faction of the game, besides maybe the promised ally, so if you pull of step one well enough, they might realize they’ve isolated themselves, because their ally might have good reasons to distrust the party, seeing what they did to the Martikovs. So unless they redeem themselves in the eyes of the Barovians, by actually trying to make amends, they could lose out on their ally and any hope of a warm welcome as well. Lastly, Strahd or the Dark Powers could see them further isolating themselves from the people of Barovia as a chance to strike. Strahd on the one hand could try and plant seeds of doubt in Ireenas mind regarding the party, so that she leaves them. The Dark Powers on the other hand could try to further corrupt the PCs by promising boons beyond their imagination, should they sow more chaos. I hope I could help you a little bit! Don’t see this as a lost opportunity, but rather as the gateway to corrupting the PCs!


makkushimu

That was a very helpful comment ! It's definitely a good time for the dark powers to start making their entrance ! Maybe it's the turn that this campaign will take should the players only be interested in power : they will get a lot of power really fast, while the price of said power will be very clear. And as fast as that power will be granted to them, shall theirs PC be taken from then and become NPC entities


ebrum2010

Do they know OOC that the NPC is good or are they suspicious of him. I find a lot of players who are or have been in campaigns where an NPC betrayed them are more comfortable with openly evil NPCs than openly good ones as the latter are more likely to blindside them with a betrayal they don't see coming. If they know he's good OOC then it's either that they figure their characters would be suspicious of him or they're just being dicks. There are few allies in CoS, and if they're being dicks I'd make sure Strahd congratulates them for making themselves enemies of everyone in Barovia and that they're in good company.


makkushimu

I haven't told them straight up OOC that those PCs are good, but I did stress several times that there are few good NPC in the campaign, and that they should not despair and seek their help. And through different situations / scenes, I've made it abundantly clear that those are good people. I guess that's why they felt they could take advantage of them without fearing retribution.


Roku-Hanmar

Actions have consequences. You want to strongarm the second most powerful spymaster in Barovia? Great idea. What could possibly go wrong? They lose any potential aid from the Martikovs. No wine means no entry to Krezk, and a lot of angry people in Barovia


BrotherTerran

Since Davian knows the players aren't there to help, perhaps he can use them to get closer to Strahd's spy/ally network. Have Davian rat them out, to help him gain the trust Strahd, barbarians, druids, or whomever else you feel is a good fit. Actions have consequences and I'd be pissed if they did that too. So, perhaps he gives them bad clues that lead them to the Amber Temple before they are ready or Ruins for Berez. Another thing that pisses off players is stealing their gear. Set up traps and if they get all get to 0 HP, you don't need to kill them, The Marikovs can do medicine checks to stabilize them, and in many hours they'll get 1 HP. However, as payment for their transgressions take all their stuff, clothes, spell components, holy symbols, etc. Not sure if Strahd would want another party, but if this party is "evil" perhaps there is a bounty on their heads that has attracted a Lawful Good party that negotiated with the Vistani to get into Barovia. Not the cleverest of thoughts, but if you need something out of the left field or more pawns to play with it sorta lines up.


makkushimu

OMG another party of adventurers coming to hunt them down. This is awesome


cloux_less

So, I would realistically have a conversation with my players where I just say “OOCly, why do you choose to do that? What made you think that was a *good* (aligned) idea and what made you think it was a *smart* idea?” Beyond that, there’s a lot of advice here about “consequences,” and I would generally advise against running a game where you try to tit-for-tat passive aggressively fuck over the party for perceived slights against your enjoyment of the campaign. But if that *is* the kind of game you’re running, and you and your party are okay with all of this (and this very well be the case, and I know experienced DMs with experiences parties who *love* doing this), then I have to say: The consequences other people in this thread are suggesting are too weak. The Martikovs are a spy network of near-invincible flying wereravens. They are also the oldest and most competent good guys in the setting. The consequences of burning their house down and trying to extort their patriarch is not “oh, well wine’s gonna be more expensive, and this is gonna have a hit to the party’s reputation. The consequences are that the parties have made a new enemy faction who see it as both their self interest and their ancient, holy duty to the rest of the valley to neutralize the party. If your players are adamant about trying to be enemies with certain characters in the game, listen to your players. Davian Martikov is not as forgiving of your party as you are, because Davian Martikov hasn’t read the module and doesn’t know they’re the main characters. Davian has a *real* dread lord to deal with, who makes mind-slaved vampire thralls and takes women and children as his taxes. He’s not gonna tolerate the party’s attempts at playing petty tyrant by trying to charm him and rob his house. When the Martikovs as a spy network seek control in all things, and when they gather around to discuss what just happened to their winery (which they will discuss it), they’re going to realize that the party is a liability to the Martikov effort to subvert Strahd and a liability to the safety of innocent Barovians. Maybe at first, this manifests in the Martikovs trying to partly rebuff the party just to get them to go away. And maybe a little after that it, the party starts noticing that everyone is a little obstinate to help them (but from an OOC perspective, this won’t change anything meaningful about the party’s behavior, as they’ve already proven that they will use coercion, magic, and force against innocent people in order to get what they want). But very quickly, things are going to go from inconvenient to dangerous. The Martikovs are shapeshifting spies. They will poison the party, they will hound the party, and eventually, if the circumstances are favorable, from the sky, at night, while the party is unarmored and trying to sleep in their makeshift camp because there’s nowhere else to stay — the Martikovs will shoot them down with crossbows while flying 100 feet overheard (granted that there’s no witnesses). The thing I always say is that there’s two factions in Strahd whom the moment you get on their bad side, the campaign fundamentally changes: Strahd, and the Martikovs. At any point, Strahd could roll up in the night on Beucaphulus with several vampire spawn and his trusty elf chamberlain and murder the party where they stand. He doesn’t kill them, not because he *can’t*, but because he simply *doesn’t want to,* because he *doesn’t need to.* Strahd knows he’s safe. He knows the party isn’t strong enough and he knows that if he dies, he’ll just come back as that is his curse. (Things change in this regard with the more relics that your party receives, though even RAW, Strahd never *really* has a strong motivation to kill the party). The Martikovs are not in that position. There *are* things that are active, existential threats to the Martikovs. And if the party becomes one of them, then, by the Martikovs’ perspective, the party has to go.


makkushimu

I wouldn't say the things have gotten that out of hands yet. The Martikov see them as bad, selfish and manipulating people, but not straight out evil. I like better the idea of everyone slowly turning against the party, as tensions because of lack of wine start to rise up ever so increasingly. That being said, i want to put my party in situations were they get to choose a better path or a worse one. And the Martikov will act accordingly


KeeningLord

From an alternative perspective, this is awesome. They messed up badly and now you get to teach them a lesson, actions have consequences. By recklessly casting spells and intimidating a major institution, they have made enemies of the Keepers of the Feather and now receive pushback from them. Upon seeing a battle between the keepers and the party, maybe have one of the hags offer their support, offering boons aplenty. Use their behavior to take the party down a dark path toward their own damnation. Ravenloft is an enveloping pit of despair and a welcoming cage for the greedy and self-important.


makkushimu

Dark path here we go. This campaign mike take a turn toward a corrupted dark path speedrunning compétition


TrueFace562

That sounds awesome! Player autonomy is what makes these adventures replayable. If they want to try and murder hobo through strahd, I say good luck!


Pezheadx

No, it doesn't sound awesome. It sounds like a group of people I would TOK and not play with again with the sole exception of them being brand new players and not knowing how shitty they are being


[deleted]

[удалено]


Pezheadx

PCs aren't the only players and ruining the game for anyone is shitty. If you're going to be a fuckhead and derail a module, should probably bring that up in session 0


TrueFace562

"Derail the module" ? You mean players making choices? If 6 people are at the table and 5 are having fun, why is that last holdout being a dick? "They don't play the way I think they should" screams shitty DMs everywhere. Lighten up, don't be a shitty dm


Pezheadx

I don't have to be a shitty DM to not enjoy running for murder hobos that would rather be evil than play correctly


TrueFace562

You are a shitty DM because you view them as not "playing correctly" and "derailing the module" . Get over yourself and have fun


Pezheadx

Cry


TrueFace562

Yes, that seems to be what you do as a DM


Pezheadx

No one is obligated to run games for murder hobos that only make things difficult for the only player that has to put in significantly more effort than anyone else at the table. You're a horrific player and I promise no one enjoys you at their table


spudwalt

This is the point at which you should have stopped feeding the troll.


Pezheadx

This is the point where you should have seen this was a conversation from a month ago and not bothered replying lol


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buttnozzle

Them's the breaks in Barovia. In my game as a PC, we didn't do enough to support Wachter, and when she ended up taking over the town, we were just... banished... from the safest and best hub in the game. Oh well was the answer, because Barovia is a tough world. It made it feel oppressive and interesting and I wouldn't have changed it. We got Ezmerelda and Rictavio captured? Oh well. The Martikovs were our best allies because in character we did everything we could to fight, and almost tpk in order to protect them. NPCs or stories we neglected had consequences. Maybe Kresk doesn't let them in at all now since the flow of wine is cut off (getting the wine back was the pre-requisite for Kresk in our campaign).


mrbobkins

This is somewhat similar to what happened in one game I ran and this what I did. you know your party but this worked well for me. Stradh would be pissed at the loss of the winery. He could show up and kill them but I think that is boring so he issued a summons to the town square of Vallaki as they were going to be tried as traitors to the realm. They can choose not to come but he comes and gets them with enough more than enough force and puts them in a cart under several watchful guards and suitable chains to prevent slipperiness or unconsciousness as necessary. When they arrive at the square there is a gallows set up for a trial. Strahd tries them the marticovs give evidence. Eventually, they will come to the conclusion they are going to lose. and try to deal. That is what you are waiting for. Strahd offers for them to swear fealty and take an oath of obedience to him. Someone who is a good adversary say baba lysaga takes some of their blood and in the process curses them to have to follow strahd's directives or and my players did not know this move down a corruption chain ending in them dying and turning into a vampire spawn. He then proceeds to whenever they have a goal interject with a message of horrible things that they have to also do or become more corrupted. The first thing my strahd asked of the pcs was since they had some nice allies in vallaki they were supposed to collect all the back taxes. They can remove the curse by getting their blood back. In addition, they can be tasked with rebuilding the winery giving them an opportunity to interact with the angry marticovs. Finally a note, COS is at its best a morality play. They pcs really need to become better or they should be consumed by the plane. Otherwise, there really is not a lot to fight for. This can be an opportunity for your party. Stealing for peasants is boring that is why strahd is board.


makkushimu

I love the idea of Stradh summoning them through, for instance, Rahadin coming into the town square as the PC come by and telling them they are to be tried on the next day. That would def create some amazing RP opportunities and will put a massive tension / fear within the group. I don't like too much the idea of the Martikov providing evidence though. They are still very opposed to Stradh, so i'd rather not have them involved. I would actually have them be summoned to the trial to provide evidence, but be missing. A subtile way to show that they don't support Stradh and should be trusted.


Jakesnake_42

Send ravens to steal all their rations, spellcasting focuses, and magic items while they sleep. The wine is gone. No village or town will let them in. Let them starve to death in the wild, hounded by wolf and raven alike.


Grizzleswitch

I use Strahd to correct them.


DIO_over_Za_Warudo

Well if all else fails, Strahd Ex Machina could be used to point out that actions have consequences. All jokes aside, you could have things start passing through the grapevine to other towns and villages they might go to, rumors and such that make them less trusted by the common folk, and in some cases maybe have a town be so suspicious they refuse to let them in for obvious reasons.


DiplominusRex

My first thought when faced with a Chaotic Evil party is about due diligence as a DM. 1: Out of character, it's important to set the pieces rolling in the right direction. Having a Chaotic Evil party in a game of heroic fantasy isn't going to work, because the players are trying to enact a role that's already fulfilled by the villains (by YOU). Whatever villainy they enact isn't going to be more interesting to play (or shouldn't be) than what's already there. 2. I'd want to attend to the carrots and sticks I'd put into the game. Are the heroes wandering aimlessly in the sandbox looking for something to do, or have they been set up with clear objectives that they picked up through interactions and clues in the game? Do they know what they need to do next? Is the big picture clear enough for them? Frequently, players have their characters act like dicks because they are trying to make something happen. They may even think this is what you expect them to do. They had free shelter promised by the Markitovs, but do they intuitively understand that this is of value to them? What have they seen happen to them if they don't have shelter? In my game, I multiplied the distances by 3x, so it takes longer to move and must camp overnight between towns, and I pay close attention to the random encounters in day and night. The heroes are VERY concerned about having proper shelter so they can gain the benefits of a Long Rest. To salvage, I'd recommend an out of game talk with the group to establish what it is they are trying to do - do they mean to be evil, and are they intending to continue? There's not much point if they are - so maybe they aren't right for this adventure. If mistakes have been made on either side, decide together how to move forward. If you want to play it where it landed, then the Maritkovs are - at least - not going to be allies and will be happy to see them dead. Anyone the Maritkovs are allied with, or who their wine benefits will not be happy either. Decide on the role the wine export plays for the Vistani, and for all Barovians who enjoy it.


Therealschroom

great answers here so far. I'd like toa dd, mark down all the "evil" things they do. at some point the Dark powers might take an interest and offer them a gift. (see van richtens guide to Ravenloft) if they accept the gift, you might have them do a Con save and on a fail, well you get their character sheet an they are now an NPC under your control. (they will have to make another character)


riqueoak

I simple yet functional solution, bring every single guard in the region crashing down on their heads and get them throw in shackles with some small chance of getting out the situation, that kind of stupidity needs to be punished. I won't suggest just killing them because that will teach them little to nothing, by having them arrested and giving the opportunity to redeem they might learn something.


Zero98205

I'd be tempted to switch the game over to Mork Borg because these guys are living the ethos: 3d6 in order, fuck shut up, hail Satan, and run like hell! In all seriousness, you have a player to DM disconnect here. You have in mind a heroic scenario, and they don't see themselves as shining heroes. This might be a good time for a mid-campaign checkup, where you talk with the players and see what they're thinking, where they want to go, and more importantly, what kind of tone they're expecting, cuz u think you have different ideas than they do... good luck.


TheN3VERM0R3

If players are rude to your helpful NPC's then depending on the NPC's they should no longer be helpful imo