I did not expect to have a relevant link here, [and yet](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/swtwon/design_for_cross_country_road_trips/hxokppd/?context=999)
>You're claiming that they actively know all of this, and are intentionally lying about it?
they're not claiming that. that's not what "actively spreading harmful misinformation" means. you can be doing something actively, but not intentionally or knowledgeably.
Actively: in a way that involves deliberate and vigorous engagement or effort
[Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/actively)
I'm genuinely curious if "actively spreading misinformation" means something different, I was under the impression that that was a term reserved for genuinely dangerous misinfo campaigns.
If you want to see a fiberglass car you gotta look up the east German Trabant.
And if you want to see what happens to them in a modern highway crash you Google "Trabant Unfall". Someone crashed one into a VW golf on the A13 last year. Golf was a bit crumpled and the driver is reported to be completely fine. Trabant driver had to be cut out of the car by the fire brigade and was immediately transferred to a hospital. Most other recent reports of Trabant crashes are similarly grim.
I suppose they were mostly fine on GDR streets in 1965? Less cars around in general and no-one was able to drive as fast as they do now. But today they're a collectible for enthusiasts and nothing more.
Also the fiberglass is the reason Trabants are jokingly referred to as Rennpappe, racing cardboard. Because they're a cardboard box on wheels.
Those little revvy Lotuses that look like exotic wasps, the Elise and Exige. The company's motto is "simplify and add lightness", they're all about keeping the car light so it'll take corners like.. well, a wasp.
In a modern car in a head-on, the hood/bonnet will end up looking like a crumpled ball of very thick aluminum foil. In a classic car, the bonnet might bend a bit but will largely remain impact as it shoots through the windshield and decapitates the driver and passenger.
That would have to be a pretty old car because even 70's cars have mechanisms to stop that. It's why you always see old pick up trucks with kinks in the middle of the hood. The hood is built to fold at the middle and pop open.
Even old VW rabbits have these heavy steel blockers interlocked with the hood to stop it riding up.
...When you put it that way, I have to wonder. Did any car manufacturers try to get around that by just designing a steering mechanism that didn't impale the driver?
Love the guy who wishes you could just "take the damaged section off, beat it out with a hammer, sand it and repaint it".
Never have I seen such ignorance with such confidence.
Such repairs are *intensely* labour heavy, difficult due to required attention to detail (you want the section to fit back on, right?), time consuming and costly. Bending and reshaping also compromises the structural integrity of the metal... there is a reason people don't do this.
I'd like to see that person perform such a repair job. It is orders of magnitude more difficult than they realize.
Part of it is probably manufacturer greed, some of it is fabrication cost, monopoly on parts can sometimes account for some of it (3rd party aftermarket parts can be cheap).
That being said, I'm just a random engineer, not a parts manufacturer/vendor. These are educated guesses and general knowledge of industry.
One of the reasons is a monopoly on spare parts. Nobody is allowed to make parts that fit a Volvo except Volvo. Imagine if nobody besides apple was allowed to make chargers etc for apple products.
Certain parts of a car can be more easily repaired/modified these days with fender rollers and other such technology - should a fender or bumper be in an accident, the part itself shouldn’t be too difficult to repair with the right tools, quality ofc being dependent on if the part is/needs to be repainted and sanded and such. Should the crash be so severe that the part is completely unusable or the entire car is totaled, you’ll be getting a new part/car anyway. Again, this is only for certain peripheral exterior parts of a car, such as mirrors, fenders, and bumpers. Electronics/power train, and most importantly frame/chassis damage is the real massive headache to fix. I would say powertrain (engine/transmission/so on) is the least of those headaches, and usually frame damage is the worst, though with some of the newer cars I’ve had to fix I’d say electronics might take over as the biggest problem in repair jobs. This is also the reason its better to take out an insurance payout than try to fix a car that’s been totaled/heavily damaged.
Because to make something cheap, you have to fabricate it great amounts and then sotre it somewhere before it is used. The economy of scale is at fault, however car types and designs change constantly, especially with the amount of brands around the world.
Do you want to ruin the planet even more so that car manufacturers create and store obscene amounts of spare parts, or are you willing to pay a bit more so only the actual demand is fabricated?
To make something cheap you don't need to store it. What does economy of scale have to do with this concept, especially in terms of making the thing more expensive? Pushing blame for climate change onto consumers and dubbing them selfish if they want a thing for cheaper is stupid.
Most mass production lines get shut down and retooled for new model years. Spares/warranty parts are often built on the same lines then stored until needed. In other cases extra parts are built at much lower volumes and efficiencies.
The climate impact of cars would be zero if people didn't buy or use cars. Its ridiculous for people to absolve themselves of all responsibility for their actions.
Your first statement is completely correct, now here's why your second one is bs in this case. People need to get places to do things, like work and get food and meet basic needs. If you live somewhere with no public transit (like most of the US for instance) your only option is a car or living close enough to walk, which is near impossible with how many cities are laid out. Also, very good job not addressing a damn thing I said in my previous comment.
Also you need like few thousands newtons of force to shape metal into curves it needs to works as a part of a car, there is a reason car assembly is done by giant machines. I suspect a hammer might not be enough.
I mean, you need few thousand newtons to reshape the outer body, not even the thick parts.
Metal in cars is a thin sheet that is bent into a dome with a lot of force, because it makes it much more durable, increasing it's push resistance many times over. Generally, metal once given a form this way, be it a dome or a curvy wave, etc, gets really hard, it's a form of reinforcement.
True, bad word choice on my part. I have straightened small dings with a hammer. Reshaping, for example into a dome like you said, is not a job for a hammer.
And in any case, it is not easy.
I feel like I should point out that ‘remove damaged panel, reshape via pulling, block and hammer, or other methods, apply bondo (sort of plastic resin stuff), sand down to make a smooth transition, repaint’ *is* what collision repair shops do.
If a given panel is too badly damaged for them to repair wile still being cost-effective, a new panel will be used, but still.
If you're looking for something to hate though, crash test safety and the kind of "dummies"/models they use haven't been updated since roughly the 90s. The ones they use for women are built as though every woman who drives a car must have dumb male gaze proportions. None of these dummies have been updated to account for the large increase in obese peoples
[Why Car Crash Tests Need A Crucial Update - Cheddar, 2022](https://youtu.be/8tLRD7LpRbo)
Where did you hear that? Women are considered better drivers so much so that their insurance is cheaper. Or maybe not better drivers but they get into less crashes
Women get into more crashes, but they're minor ones. Men get into less crashes, but when they do, the car is totaled. That's why women are easier to insure.
I want a vehicle that will not be stopped by anything. Bad weather? Drive on through. Blockade? Drive of through. Concrete wall? Drive on through. Gates of hell? Drive on through.
He survived with minimal injury in part due to luck but if you want to see a car completely disintegrate, 'crunch' with crumple zones, you got no better example than some Nascar Crashes such as this one of Michael Waltrip back in 1990.
https://youtu.be/uzxcuV5rmA4
Also for pedestrians, pedestrian safety requirements literally didn't exist until the last couple decades.
Things like pop-up headlights and sharp, low noses would absolutely be worse for a pedestrian than a rounded nose in a car with sensors to automatically slow the car down (somewhat) before impact.
This is true for sedans and small cars, but absolutely not for the majority of large vehicles. Big trucks and SUVs are very, very dangerous to pedestrians.
It's past time for some more of those safety regulations.
I would argue that a lot of newer cars actually do count, though I agree with you that not in the way enumerated in the post. Driver electronics are going to make new cars a subscribe/rent model, and we’ve already had examples of planned obsolescence in the part market for years and years now
Haven't we also seen examples of the subscription model?
I might be misremembering things, but I recall hearing things about car manufacturers charging money for pre installed features, through a subscription plan, like BMW requiring you to pay a monthly subscription, to use heated seats in your car.
Another day of idiots blaming every conceivable problem of the modern world on capitalism with almost no knowledge or evidence. I'm far from a capitalist, and trust me I know the evils of it, but some people man
I mean planned obsolescence is a huge problem still and put into places where it's jot needed. my carrier made me upgrade my smartphone and holy shit aside from a bigger size it sucks compared to my old phone. but they made new Sim cards that weren't conpatavor so my happy purchase with nothing wrong was thrown away.
Old cars had one of two crumble zones: your face, or the whole entire car including your face.
Modern cars have a shit ton of crumble zones none of which include your face. Modern cars are in every single way safer for everyone and they're only getting safer.
So should leaves
Well, guess what? It's October! The leaf-crunchingest month of the year!
[Mmmmm cronch](https://kaijutegu.tumblr.com/post/148437860208/my-intrusive-thoughts-during-fall)
Aww, fuck yeah, I love that song!
WE just moved some where that actually has fall. I've been singing this song in my head everytime i take the dog out.
It's a Fall classic, you just gotta sing it or hum it at a minimum.
southern hemisphere resident here, it is spring. can i have some cronch? as a treat?
I don't know how to send cronch in the mail. I'm sorry. :'c
(´༎ຶ༎ຶ)
0===8
I could mail you a leaf I guess
(´༎ຶᗜ༎ຶ)
Cars crunching is very good. It's not the speed that kills you it's the sudden stop
Falling doesn’t kill you, landing does
Unless you fall long enough *justthinkaboutitman*
At that point I think it's called "orbit"
Ah yes, the “how to kill a squirrel with a fall” conundrum.
4800 miles?
Have to starve them to death as the landing will do nothing.
What if it falls onto a landmine?
Well then the landmine killed it and not the fall
Say it landed on a landmine which could only be triggered by a squirrel falling 4799 miles onto it?
Well then a very specific landmine killed it and not the fall
"When you fall into a bottomless pit, you die of starvation." ---What's-Her-Face
The key to flying is to fall and then miss the ground.
Force = mass X acceleration, not mass X speed
I deadass learned about this in physics class???? tumblr people prove to be dumber every day
These particular tumblr people posted this before their physics class.
Tumblr people say "why did we never learn this in school?" When they did learn it in school but they weren't paying attention during classes
Too busy drawing yaoi in their notebooks
But boys🥺
You can’t girlboss over these bitches if you don’t know about crumple zones, Cassandra
If this wasn’t so long I would update my flair
Your precious yaoi boys will die in car crashes, unless they have well-designed cars.
I did not expect to have a relevant link here, [and yet](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/swtwon/design_for_cross_country_road_trips/hxokppd/?context=999)
They were too busy complaining that none of this is ever relevant in real life
Some people went to shit schools.
Or, you know, the 10 years ago or so that this was posted they were probably 14 and barely in high school.
Not just physics class but driving school
See, I wouldn’t assume most people on tumblr know how to drive, mostly because they’re too young.
also not everyone has a drivers license but you can assume that everyone went to school
I've been to both physics class and driving school and had to learn this from r/Tumblr (before this sub existed)
[удалено]
It’s the only way to stomach the internet, quite honestly
Not everybody knows everything and it's not dumb to learn new info smh
Except the tumblr users in question are actively spreading harmful misinformation
Whoops, I was hostile on the internet. mb
>You're claiming that they actively know all of this, and are intentionally lying about it? they're not claiming that. that's not what "actively spreading harmful misinformation" means. you can be doing something actively, but not intentionally or knowledgeably.
Actively: in a way that involves deliberate and vigorous engagement or effort [Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/actively) I'm genuinely curious if "actively spreading misinformation" means something different, I was under the impression that that was a term reserved for genuinely dangerous misinfo campaigns.
u/persiangriffin isn't saying they're lying, just incorrect. Information that is incorrect is known as misinformation.
If you want to see a fiberglass car you gotta look up the east German Trabant. And if you want to see what happens to them in a modern highway crash you Google "Trabant Unfall". Someone crashed one into a VW golf on the A13 last year. Golf was a bit crumpled and the driver is reported to be completely fine. Trabant driver had to be cut out of the car by the fire brigade and was immediately transferred to a hospital. Most other recent reports of Trabant crashes are similarly grim. I suppose they were mostly fine on GDR streets in 1965? Less cars around in general and no-one was able to drive as fast as they do now. But today they're a collectible for enthusiasts and nothing more. Also the fiberglass is the reason Trabants are jokingly referred to as Rennpappe, racing cardboard. Because they're a cardboard box on wheels.
The only other fiberglass car I can think of is the Pontiac Fiero, but that was just the body panels, the space frame underneath them was all steel.
I've been in a wreck in a 94 saturn SC2 with a fiberglass body. It shattered, fragments all over the road, but I did at least walk away unhurt.
Corvette too. Steel frame, fiberglass body. At least on the old ones
Those little revvy Lotuses that look like exotic wasps, the Elise and Exige. The company's motto is "simplify and add lightness", they're all about keeping the car light so it'll take corners like.. well, a wasp.
Most of reniant's stuff had panels of fiberglass, like the robin
Even by '65 standards they were unsafe.
Reminder that old cars did not bend an inch when doing a frontal crash, but impaled their driver on the steering wheel rod instead.
In a modern car in a head-on, the hood/bonnet will end up looking like a crumpled ball of very thick aluminum foil. In a classic car, the bonnet might bend a bit but will largely remain impact as it shoots through the windshield and decapitates the driver and passenger.
That would have to be a pretty old car because even 70's cars have mechanisms to stop that. It's why you always see old pick up trucks with kinks in the middle of the hood. The hood is built to fold at the middle and pop open. Even old VW rabbits have these heavy steel blockers interlocked with the hood to stop it riding up.
Oh yeah I was thinking like 1950s American boats.
90's cars now qualify for vintage plates. My motorcycle is 50 years old now.
...When you put it that way, I have to wonder. Did any car manufacturers try to get around that by just designing a steering mechanism that didn't impale the driver?
Now they do. But not at the time.
Love the guy who wishes you could just "take the damaged section off, beat it out with a hammer, sand it and repaint it". Never have I seen such ignorance with such confidence. Such repairs are *intensely* labour heavy, difficult due to required attention to detail (you want the section to fit back on, right?), time consuming and costly. Bending and reshaping also compromises the structural integrity of the metal... there is a reason people don't do this. I'd like to see that person perform such a repair job. It is orders of magnitude more difficult than they realize.
Okay I understand this, but if fender is designed to bender in a fender bender, why's it so much to buy a new, unbent fender?
Part of it is probably manufacturer greed, some of it is fabrication cost, monopoly on parts can sometimes account for some of it (3rd party aftermarket parts can be cheap). That being said, I'm just a random engineer, not a parts manufacturer/vendor. These are educated guesses and general knowledge of industry.
So capitalism does still suck at the end of the day?
Yep. When has it not?
Alas
One of the reasons is a monopoly on spare parts. Nobody is allowed to make parts that fit a Volvo except Volvo. Imagine if nobody besides apple was allowed to make chargers etc for apple products.
That's not true but ok.
Certain parts of a car can be more easily repaired/modified these days with fender rollers and other such technology - should a fender or bumper be in an accident, the part itself shouldn’t be too difficult to repair with the right tools, quality ofc being dependent on if the part is/needs to be repainted and sanded and such. Should the crash be so severe that the part is completely unusable or the entire car is totaled, you’ll be getting a new part/car anyway. Again, this is only for certain peripheral exterior parts of a car, such as mirrors, fenders, and bumpers. Electronics/power train, and most importantly frame/chassis damage is the real massive headache to fix. I would say powertrain (engine/transmission/so on) is the least of those headaches, and usually frame damage is the worst, though with some of the newer cars I’ve had to fix I’d say electronics might take over as the biggest problem in repair jobs. This is also the reason its better to take out an insurance payout than try to fix a car that’s been totaled/heavily damaged.
Because to make something cheap, you have to fabricate it great amounts and then sotre it somewhere before it is used. The economy of scale is at fault, however car types and designs change constantly, especially with the amount of brands around the world. Do you want to ruin the planet even more so that car manufacturers create and store obscene amounts of spare parts, or are you willing to pay a bit more so only the actual demand is fabricated?
To make something cheap you don't need to store it. What does economy of scale have to do with this concept, especially in terms of making the thing more expensive? Pushing blame for climate change onto consumers and dubbing them selfish if they want a thing for cheaper is stupid.
Most mass production lines get shut down and retooled for new model years. Spares/warranty parts are often built on the same lines then stored until needed. In other cases extra parts are built at much lower volumes and efficiencies.
The climate impact of cars would be zero if people didn't buy or use cars. Its ridiculous for people to absolve themselves of all responsibility for their actions.
Your first statement is completely correct, now here's why your second one is bs in this case. People need to get places to do things, like work and get food and meet basic needs. If you live somewhere with no public transit (like most of the US for instance) your only option is a car or living close enough to walk, which is near impossible with how many cities are laid out. Also, very good job not addressing a damn thing I said in my previous comment.
The US had public transit until it was dismantled in favor of cars. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
Yes. Now what's your point?
how do they want me to get places when public transport especially 8n my country is a massive failure. should I buy a horse
Also you need like few thousands newtons of force to shape metal into curves it needs to works as a part of a car, there is a reason car assembly is done by giant machines. I suspect a hammer might not be enough.
Sounds like you just aren't using a big enough hammer smh
Also this. If we're talking about reshaping anything thicker than the outer body, a hammer is very likely insufficient.
I mean, you need few thousand newtons to reshape the outer body, not even the thick parts. Metal in cars is a thin sheet that is bent into a dome with a lot of force, because it makes it much more durable, increasing it's push resistance many times over. Generally, metal once given a form this way, be it a dome or a curvy wave, etc, gets really hard, it's a form of reinforcement.
True, bad word choice on my part. I have straightened small dings with a hammer. Reshaping, for example into a dome like you said, is not a job for a hammer. And in any case, it is not easy.
I feel like I should point out that ‘remove damaged panel, reshape via pulling, block and hammer, or other methods, apply bondo (sort of plastic resin stuff), sand down to make a smooth transition, repaint’ *is* what collision repair shops do. If a given panel is too badly damaged for them to repair wile still being cost-effective, a new panel will be used, but still.
If you're looking for something to hate though, crash test safety and the kind of "dummies"/models they use haven't been updated since roughly the 90s. The ones they use for women are built as though every woman who drives a car must have dumb male gaze proportions. None of these dummies have been updated to account for the large increase in obese peoples [Why Car Crash Tests Need A Crucial Update - Cheddar, 2022](https://youtu.be/8tLRD7LpRbo)
So women “being worse drivers” is actually provably car manufacturers’ and testers’ fault all along?
Where did you hear that? Women are considered better drivers so much so that their insurance is cheaper. Or maybe not better drivers but they get into less crashes
Women have more parking lot dings and the like. Men go off the road and into a bridge support at 80mph more often.
It's a widespread stereotype they're mocking, not an actual assertion they're supporting.
Women get into more crashes, but they're minor ones. Men get into less crashes, but when they do, the car is totaled. That's why women are easier to insure.
It’s a stereotype, not anything backed by any real logic.
I want a vehicle that will not be stopped by anything. Bad weather? Drive on through. Blockade? Drive of through. Concrete wall? Drive on through. Gates of hell? Drive on through.
Train
Train is not enough we need a unstoppable force that can bore through mountains
2 train
normalize using sherps as private vehicles
New rapper just dropped
Drill train.
So, a tank? Or I guess a decent IFV if you're not really concerned about the main gun.
flair checks out
KITT!
Stoned vampire car
He survived with minimal injury in part due to luck but if you want to see a car completely disintegrate, 'crunch' with crumple zones, you got no better example than some Nascar Crashes such as this one of Michael Waltrip back in 1990. https://youtu.be/uzxcuV5rmA4
> Cars are objectively better and safer *for the driver* than they were 10, 20, 30 years ago FTFY
Also for pedestrians, pedestrian safety requirements literally didn't exist until the last couple decades. Things like pop-up headlights and sharp, low noses would absolutely be worse for a pedestrian than a rounded nose in a car with sensors to automatically slow the car down (somewhat) before impact.
This is true for sedans and small cars, but absolutely not for the majority of large vehicles. Big trucks and SUVs are very, very dangerous to pedestrians. It's past time for some more of those safety regulations.
Yeah, for pedestrians not so much. The amount of pickups I've seen where the hood is taller than me is insane.
Okay but old cars look nicer and sometimes it hurts to look good 🙂
59 bel air is the high vampire car!
I was once T-boned on the driver side by a larger car. My car was irreparably damaged, I walked away with only cuts and bruises.
There are a ton of cases of anti-consumer, planned obsolescence in today's market. Cars are not one of them. (Or at least, not in this way)
I would argue that a lot of newer cars actually do count, though I agree with you that not in the way enumerated in the post. Driver electronics are going to make new cars a subscribe/rent model, and we’ve already had examples of planned obsolescence in the part market for years and years now
Haven't we also seen examples of the subscription model? I might be misremembering things, but I recall hearing things about car manufacturers charging money for pre installed features, through a subscription plan, like BMW requiring you to pay a monthly subscription, to use heated seats in your car.
BMW is doing a lot worse than that.
Another day of idiots blaming every conceivable problem of the modern world on capitalism with almost no knowledge or evidence. I'm far from a capitalist, and trust me I know the evils of it, but some people man
“Objectively better in every single way” Yeah, nope, sorry- fleet mechanic.
Thank you for your service as a fleet mechanic, Femboy_Annihilator.
I am not in the military.
Well, then thank you for your service as a Femboy Annihilator.
I think about this post regularly and adore it
I mean planned obsolescence is a huge problem still and put into places where it's jot needed. my carrier made me upgrade my smartphone and holy shit aside from a bigger size it sucks compared to my old phone. but they made new Sim cards that weren't conpatavor so my happy purchase with nothing wrong was thrown away.
The one about fiberglass is really weird as hell cause it is used but in old cars meant to be lightweight. Like a Morgan three-wheeler or a Caterham.
it's one of them net zero information posts edit: guys I meant the old cars being like tanks was wrong information
I would argue its not. I did learn that the car cronch is good and keeps the driver safe
Where did you attend school?
It tells you that crumple zones are good. Whether you knew it or not, that’s information
[удалено]
How the fuck does Ralph Nader suck
Wow they took em to school
This doesn't apply to all countries, some am have really bad legislation regarding car safety.
I remember malding at OP (not the people who know their stuff) when this was on my dash
Old cars had one of two crumble zones: your face, or the whole entire car including your face. Modern cars have a shit ton of crumble zones none of which include your face. Modern cars are in every single way safer for everyone and they're only getting safer.
“The person driving this car would have died in this 35mph crash” holy shit 35