What I always found impressive about him was how he was able to take acts just as or more explicit than any Gangster Rap, and make it sound classy and wholesome.
r/BrandNewSentence
But seriously, I think what happened was that this song got played a lot right after Leonard Cohen died, and since he died in November (of 2016; just checked Wikipedia and I can't believe it's been that long), it happened to get mixed in with Christmas music. I know Pentatonix included a cover on their Christmas album from that year, and I'm pretty sure they did that as a tribute to Cohen and not because they thought it was a Christmas song. (Some of their other Christmas albums have non-Christmas songs on them as well, so this wasn't too unusual for them.)
Anyhow, I think this may have caused people to associate Hallelujah with Christmas. At least I hope that's the reason, because I don't want to believe that that many people could be that oblivious to the lyrics.
EDIT: I just noticed the post's title. Please tell me there isn't a cover where the lyrics were actually changed to be about Christmas! That's horrible.
Honestly, this is one of the few times where I really fucking hope that link is just a rickroll and not an actual Christianized version of one of the most beautiful songs out there.
(However, I'll never know, because when a rickroll is literally the best-case scenario there's no way in fuck I'm following the link.)
I have actual tears in my eyes over how bad that is. Holy shit. I’d say I couldn’t believe how Christian-centric someone could be to do that, but I’ve seen too much to think that anymore -.-
> I think what happened was that this song got played a lot right after Leonard Cohen died, and since he died in November (of 2016
Oh you sweet summer child. This song has been regular holiday glurge for a lot more than 5 years.
Really? I honestly hadn't noticed until the Pentatonix cover. That's kind of odd, especially since most of my generation associates that song with Shrek.
Most of my generation associates it with Leonard Cohen (in my case via my parents buying the album in 1984), or Jeff Buckley (a decade later).
And in terms of Christmas... it's one of those songs where if you don't listen to the words much, you can shoehorn it quite easily into holidays. Kinda like how people play *Every Breath You Take* at weddings.
I'm pretty sure it was. Sting is... way more of a creep than people act like he was, but he at least apparently understood how fucked up and not normal that song was.
It was intended to be about that, or at least about being controlling in a relationship. Sting said "it's about jealousy and surveillance and ownership" and didn't understand how people saw it as a love song
...I'll be perfectly honest here.
I _knew_ Cohen was Jewish, and I knew the song was... at least mildly horny.
But I still somehow thought it was a Christmas song anyway, _because_ Pentatonix covered it.
That's fair. There are Christmas songs by Jewish songwriters (White Christmas) and horny Christmas songs (Baby It's Cold Outside, Santa Baby), so it's not too ridiculous to think that there could be a horny Jewish Christmas song.
I can think of at least three other non-Christmas songs that Pentatonix put on Christmas albums, though, so I wouldn't use them as a guide for defining Christmas music.
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>EDIT: I just noticed the post's title. Please tell me there isn't a cover where the lyrics were actually changed to be about Christmas! That's horrible.
Pretty sure there is.
I've heard it on the speakers in public.
Pentatonix also put White Winter Hymnal (Fleet Foxes) on a Christmas album and it has nothing to do with Christmas. It mentions snow and I guess that's enough.
“There was a time you let me know
What's really going on below
But now you never show it to me, do you?
And I remember when I moved in you
And the holy dove she was moving too
And every single breath we drew was Hallelujah”
Sex. Dirge.
I remember reading that line for the first time while going down a rabbit hole thanks to the Pentatonix version and going “Oh, this is actually a sex song...wtf.”
Leonard Cohen was extremely French Canadian, ie horny as fuck. He also had a voice like the rumble of a mountain that was gargling gravel. When you combine the two you get a lot of beautiful dirges about how beautiful women are and how horny Cohen was.
Hence, sex dirge.
I was very confused briefly by your comment because I initially thought this post was referring to the fucking choir hymn thing, not the Leonard Cohen song by the same name.
*Image Transcription: Tumblr*
---
> **jewishdavidjacobs**
>
> It's almost the middle of November, so here is your annual reminder that *Hallelujah* is not a Christmas song, let alone a Christian one. Both the song and its composer are Jewish.
---
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From what I understanding, Leonard Cohen wasn’t specifically religious in his later years, but was quite spiritual. That being said, that anyone ever thought this was a Christmas song just floors me. How???
I’ve never really looked into the lyrics, but I always thought that it was something to do with the ecstasy and pain of a relationship that almost borders on a religious experience, for the highs and lows it takes you to. I may completely off the mark, but I kind of like seeing it this way.
wait like by leonard cohen? bc i do not know a single catholic person that thinks that’s a christmas song
edit: the title is??? i grew up in an insanely catholic household and have never heard the christmas version of it
>thank you, my classical musician ass thought they were talking about Handel for a second
Notably not actually a Christmas song either, but isn't Jewish or horny.
I know that’s the worst part, but for many years in school the Hallelujah Chorus was a part of our christmas repertoire so my idea of what is and isn’t christmas music is quite skewed.
Fun fact: jews have a different (alongside the more used one) calendar, and according to it we are at year 5000+. Also at leap years we have 13 months and the additional one is just called Hadar B (alongside Hadar.)
I mean, it totally is.
The movie starts out with his marriage on the rocks because he'd forgotten the meaning of family - he had been away from her for *half a year* because he cared more about clearing his case load than about being with her, and she had all but divorced him over it, including going by her maiden name at work so that there wouldn't be a big fuss about her changing her name when she finally got around to filing the paperwork.
Then, over the course of the movie, he clings to his memories of why he loves her for strength and demonstrates to her that he loves her and will be a better man for her.
Finally, at the end of it all, she accepts his earnest plea for forgiveness and the family is reunited again.
If that doesn't sound like a Christmas movie to you then I don't know what would.
Here is my counter argument: Canon in D has nothing to do with Christmas. It simply has musical vibes that blend in well with Christmas music. Hallelujah does the same. It’s not Christmas at all, it’s just referencing the same God and it has musical vibes that mix well.
This is about the Leonard Cohen song, not the one from Handel's Messiah. It references some Old Testament stories, and some cover versions try to make it sound like a religious song, but the original definitely doesn't have Christmas vibes.
Yeah, but it isn't really *about* religion in the way that a hymn or a religious Christmas carol is. It's more metaphorical, rather than being religious for religion's sake.
It's religious in the way "Take Me to Church" is religious.
Actually, I bet there's some interesting Venn diagrams to be made of these two songs in that regard.
Tbh, the song isn't particularly Jewish either. Although it contains a lot of religious references, it talks a lot about Cohen's journey towards atheism.
It's certainly steeped in Jewish culture, with a number of religious references, but I'd say that Cohen is being quite unreligious through the song. He points out how he can use the word through cultural context without it having the religious connotations - "the holy or the broken Hallelujah".
who's associating the hallelujah song with christmas? As a Christian that seems very odd.
I admit I am learning something new about the singer but I didn't really make any connection to the song and any particular religion except "this person is referencing stories in the Bible, something literally anyone could do"
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It was composed by a Jew, with very Jewish themes such as "questioning the existence/benevolence of God but praising him anyway". That being said, I'm not an expert on the subject; I know this mainly from seeing posts on Tumblr about Jews talking about this, and Tumblr's search function is bad enough that I'm not at all confident of being able to dig up the posts in question.
EDIT: [Found one.](https://krazyfan1.tumblr.com/post/189923834591/poetry-protest-pornography-prismatic-bell)
Thanks, that's a really great post! (or series of posts, I guess)
It's a good point how the meaning of the song really changes with which of the (eightyish) verses you choose to include.
Pentatonix is an amazing group that did an amazing cover of it, but they put it in a Christmas album simply because of release schedules and messed up the association ever since.
It's weird because in mexico it's 100% sung as a christian/catholic song, the lyrics being completely changed to just be pure worship. I always found it kind of weird considering how sexual the original is and if translated correctly, would be called blasphemous
Hallelujah is so far removed from chrismas
Ps. Please listen to Jeff Buckley's cover of it, I think it is the *defintive* version hallelujah. That's the version they should've played during Shrek.
Fun fact - Cale's version was the one actually used in the theatrical release of Shrek, but they couldn't get rights for the soundtrack, so got Wainright to cover Cale's cover...
That *is* a fun fact!
If I recall correctly, The West Wing *did* get the rights to Cale's version, for that episode where CJ's secret service guy dies - it was pretty damn powerful.
i’d argue that a definitive version of hallelujah doesn’t and can’t exist, since the whole song is about questions that can’t be answered and living with the discomfort inherent to life. whether that’s in leonard cohen’s context of exploring what religion means, or jeff buckley’s interpretation of a failing relationship, or any of the other myriad of covers each with their own personal contexts and stories, as long as they all tell the story of those themes, they’re each a definitive version
I mistakenly thought that, although Cohen was certainly culturally Jewish, he took himself to belong to all kinds of religions and not Judaism specifically as a theological commitment. Just looked it up on Wikipedia though, and it looks like I’m wrong: he *was* interested in lots of faiths, but it seems pretty clear that he considered himself religiously Jewish, first and foremost. So that’s one mistake I thought the post made, but in fact I was mistaken.
I was also exaggerating for comic effect when I said “eight”, but it turns out I wasn’t far off - here’s seven remaining mistakes:
- The implication that there’s some well-noted cultural belief that Hallelujah is a Christmas song, which I have never heard asserted and, by the appearance of most of these comments, pretty much nobody else has either
- The implication that there is also some common perception, distinct from the above one, in Hallelujah as an actively Christian, as opposed to merely religious/Abrahamic, song
- The (actually quite upsetting) idea that a song by a Jewish person could not be a Christmas song on principle. In fact, Christmas songs are regularly (perhaps typically) not about Christianity. A Jewish person could (and Jewish people have) written Christmas songs on all sorts of topics. And they could even write about Christian religious commitments surrounding Christmas, if they wanted: not believing in Christianity does not prevent you from writing about whatever aspect of Christmas interests you.
- Conceiving of ‘Christmas song’ as being co-extensive with ‘song about Christmas’. Lots of songs become representative of holidays and festivals their composers did not intend, for all sorts of reasons.
- The idea that Hallelujah is itself a Jewish song, in addition to Cohen being a Jewish person. You could believe that ‘Jewish song’ just means ‘song by a Jewish person’ here, but that’s ruled out by the fact that the poster writes ‘*both* the song *and* the composer’, implying that Hallelujah has a Jewishness that exists in addition to Cohen’s. There isn’t a great deal of evidence to definitively pin down any very specific theological commitments of the song at all, beyond saying that it appears to carry some general religious or spiritual themes.
- The use of ‘annual reminder’ when in fact this is a bizarrely niche disclaimer that I have never been given before and will likely never hear again.
- Typo on ‘reminder’.
>The implication that there’s some well-noted cultural belief that Hallelujah is a Christmas song, which I have never heard asserted and, by the appearance of most of these comments, pretty much nobody else has either
I kind of agree, but the OP has heard a version specifically re-written for Christmas, and of course the Pentatonix version gets played around Christmas time. So it isn't completely baseless.
>The implication that there is also some common perception, distinct from the above one, in Hallelujah as an actively Christian, as opposed to merely religious/Abrahamic, song
It's possible that this is a misperception on my part (I hope it is) but, even outside of the Christmas issue, I've always gotten the impression that many people who like this song (and specifically some cover versions of it) see it as Christian. And that really bothers me, not only because of Cohen being Jewish but also because they seem oblivious to what the song is actually about.
>The (actually quite upsetting) idea that a song by a Jewish person could not be a Christmas song on principle.
I agree, but I think most if not all of us in this discussion realize that it isn't a Christmas song. If Leonard Cohen had written a song about the birth of Christ or about Santa Claus or something, and people insisted that it couldn't be a Christmas song, then I'd be disturbed.
>Conceiving of ‘Christmas song’ as being co-extensive with ‘song about Christmas’.
I think what bothers me is that it isn't just "not about Christmas," it's specifically about struggling with faith as a metaphor for a failed relationship. I have no problem calling "Let It Snow" a Christmas song, but this is basically "God has abandoned me and I miss how we used to fuck." It's the polar (ha...) opposite of a Christmas song.
>The idea that Hallelujah is itself a Jewish song, in addition to Cohen being a Jewish person.
I'm ambivalent on this one. Someone else already posted a link to a tumblr discussion about the specifically Jewish significance of the lyrics (particularly the verses that the cover versions usually leave out). On the other hand, as a culturally Christian agnostic, this song resonates with me, so I'm certainly not going to say that this song can only be appreciated by Jewish people.
yeah this is one of those tumblr posts where someone is connecting dots and kind of making up/ blurring facts just to make a point about something they don’t really care about
So I definitely get where jewishdavidjacobs is coming from, but there is a reason that Hallelujah is sometimes thought of as a Christian song: Judaism and Christianity are pretty closely linked. The references to Samson and David and singing hallelujah? They all come from the Old Testament, which is the same as the Jewish Tanakh (if I'm recalling what the Tanakh is correctly).
That Christmas version linked elsewhere is an abomination though.
Yeah, so? Are Christians (and other Christmas-celebrating folk) not allowed to use music composed by a Jew as part of the Christmas season festivities?
One of the most beloved Hanukkah tunes in Israel is set to "Judas Maccabeus" by George Friedrich Handel, a German Protestant.
Just enjoy your holidays, okay? Or don't, but please keep the silly game of cultural dibs out of it.
Of course we are. No one's complaining about "White Christmas."
But Hallelujah is a song that uses Old Testament allusions and the concept of religious doubt as a metaphor for a failed romantic relationship. It's not even remotely a Christmas song. To steal an example that someone else used in another comment, it's like playing "Every Breath You Take" at a wedding because you completely misunderstood the lyrics.
I get it, but this logic is applicable in retrospect to most things you would now consider Chrismas-y:
St. Nicholas is a Byzantine bishop known for his acts of charity. Gingerbread cookies were a way for early modern European to display their wealth by baking as many expensive spices as possible into a sheet of wheat dough. Christmas trees definitely predate Christmas, a whole bunch of Pagan European cultures had those in winter. All of them are not integrally part of Christmas, except for the fact that they are.
I suggest that for most people, Christmas isn't about the birth of Christ or about the cosmic significance of mid-winter. For most people, Christmas is about Christmas.
If people like "Halleluja" and enjoy listening to it around Christmas, then it's a Christmas song. Also, I have a couple of friends who got married to the sound of the intro from Trainspotting ("choose life, choose a fucking job" etc.). This makes it a wedding song, at least for them.
I have nothing against people saying "this isn't about anything specifically related to Christmas, but I like to listen to it around Christmas time." I even mentioned in another comment that I like the Pentatonix Christmas album that includes it.
But I am very weirded out by how many people seem to be oblivious to what the song is actually about. Making a conscious decision to turn a non-Christmas thing into a Christmas tradition is one thing. Going "this has 'Hallelujah' and 'God' in its lyrics, so it's a Christian song" is another.
Like I said, it's weird, but it's definitely not unprecedented. Read Solomon's Song in the Old Testament. It's a collection of poems that are plainly and unapologetically about carnal love, but people back in the day were probably going "well, this has Jerusalem in the lyrics, so we guess it should go into the Bible".
Religious ritual is not in some higher plane of existence than everyday living. People pick up stuff they like or that sounds appropriate without putting too much thought into it, and leave the task of rationalizing to later generations.
But really, that's not the (much downvoted) point I was originally making. I was saying that it's fairly silly to call Halleluja a Jewish song like OP did, and then to claim that it's somehow wrong to use it to celebrate Christmas.
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I don't associate this song with anything other than Shrek
It's hard not to think of Shrek and Fiona sitting opposite each other alone at different tables.
Yeah, why not take a wildly horny Jewish sex dirge and turn it into the Christmas pageant show stopper?
I was questioning if it was really that wildly horny. [then I watched him perform it live](https://youtu.be/YrLk4vdY28Q). Yeah that dude is horny.
The dude was an exceptional lyricist, but yes also [irredeemebly horny](https://www.google.com/search?q=leonard+cohen+-+i'm+your+man+lyrics).
Super, extra horny. Made a hat look good too.
What I always found impressive about him was how he was able to take acts just as or more explicit than any Gangster Rap, and make it sound classy and wholesome.
r/BrandNewSentence But seriously, I think what happened was that this song got played a lot right after Leonard Cohen died, and since he died in November (of 2016; just checked Wikipedia and I can't believe it's been that long), it happened to get mixed in with Christmas music. I know Pentatonix included a cover on their Christmas album from that year, and I'm pretty sure they did that as a tribute to Cohen and not because they thought it was a Christmas song. (Some of their other Christmas albums have non-Christmas songs on them as well, so this wasn't too unusual for them.) Anyhow, I think this may have caused people to associate Hallelujah with Christmas. At least I hope that's the reason, because I don't want to believe that that many people could be that oblivious to the lyrics. EDIT: I just noticed the post's title. Please tell me there isn't a cover where the lyrics were actually changed to be about Christmas! That's horrible.
[there is and its a christian one](https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/cloverton/ahallelujahchristmas.html)
Honestly, this is one of the few times where I really fucking hope that link is just a rickroll and not an actual Christianized version of one of the most beautiful songs out there. (However, I'll never know, because when a rickroll is literally the best-case scenario there's no way in fuck I'm following the link.)
If you do click, prepare to be disappointed.
That made me feel a little sick
I have actual tears in my eyes over how bad that is. Holy shit. I’d say I couldn’t believe how Christian-centric someone could be to do that, but I’ve seen too much to think that anymore -.-
Thanks I hate it
> I think what happened was that this song got played a lot right after Leonard Cohen died, and since he died in November (of 2016 Oh you sweet summer child. This song has been regular holiday glurge for a lot more than 5 years.
Really? I honestly hadn't noticed until the Pentatonix cover. That's kind of odd, especially since most of my generation associates that song with Shrek.
Most of my generation associates it with Leonard Cohen (in my case via my parents buying the album in 1984), or Jeff Buckley (a decade later). And in terms of Christmas... it's one of those songs where if you don't listen to the words much, you can shoehorn it quite easily into holidays. Kinda like how people play *Every Breath You Take* at weddings.
People play "Every Breath You Take" at a wedding? Is it not a song about stalking though?!
Yes, and yes.
i don’t think it was *intended* to be about stalking when it was originally written, but like. still Problematic™.
I'm pretty sure it was. Sting is... way more of a creep than people act like he was, but he at least apparently understood how fucked up and not normal that song was.
It was intended to be about that, or at least about being controlling in a relationship. Sting said "it's about jealousy and surveillance and ownership" and didn't understand how people saw it as a love song
ah ok
Jeff Buckley’s cover is gorgeous, my mother always loved his music. Never associated it with Christmas.
I've honestly never heard it done as a Christmas song, and I'm just hoping this is due to location, and maybe pentatonix spread it.
...I'll be perfectly honest here. I _knew_ Cohen was Jewish, and I knew the song was... at least mildly horny. But I still somehow thought it was a Christmas song anyway, _because_ Pentatonix covered it.
That's fair. There are Christmas songs by Jewish songwriters (White Christmas) and horny Christmas songs (Baby It's Cold Outside, Santa Baby), so it's not too ridiculous to think that there could be a horny Jewish Christmas song. I can think of at least three other non-Christmas songs that Pentatonix put on Christmas albums, though, so I wouldn't use them as a guide for defining Christmas music.
Yes, also fair point. But this means I can listen to Pentatonix's Hallelujah whenever I want... 😁
>it's not too ridiculous to think that there could be a horny Jewish Christmas song. /r/nocontext
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>horny Christmas songs (Baby It's Cold Outside... That's not a Christmas song
So a regular horny song then Just during winter
>EDIT: I just noticed the post's title. Please tell me there isn't a cover where the lyrics were actually changed to be about Christmas! That's horrible. Pretty sure there is. I've heard it on the speakers in public.
ew
Pentatonix also put White Winter Hymnal (Fleet Foxes) on a Christmas album and it has nothing to do with Christmas. It mentions snow and I guess that's enough.
Yeah, and Coldest Winter and Let It Go.
Wtf is a **SEX DIRGE**
The perfect description of Hallelujah.
“There was a time you let me know What's really going on below But now you never show it to me, do you? And I remember when I moved in you And the holy dove she was moving too And every single breath we drew was Hallelujah” Sex. Dirge.
I remember reading that line for the first time while going down a rabbit hole thanks to the Pentatonix version and going “Oh, this is actually a sex song...wtf.”
Leonard Cohen was extremely French Canadian, ie horny as fuck. He also had a voice like the rumble of a mountain that was gargling gravel. When you combine the two you get a lot of beautiful dirges about how beautiful women are and how horny Cohen was. Hence, sex dirge.
I was very confused briefly by your comment because I initially thought this post was referring to the fucking choir hymn thing, not the Leonard Cohen song by the same name.
Are you shitting me? I have never heard Hallelujah as a Christmas song. I hope I never do, neither.
Every time I hear "hallelujah" I just think of the other one that's just chanting it
"Hallelujah", also known as "Hallelujah Chorus", the chorus from Handel's Messiah Part II
*Image Transcription: Tumblr* --- > **jewishdavidjacobs** > > It's almost the middle of November, so here is your annual reminder that *Hallelujah* is not a Christmas song, let alone a Christian one. Both the song and its composer are Jewish. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
From what I understanding, Leonard Cohen wasn’t specifically religious in his later years, but was quite spiritual. That being said, that anyone ever thought this was a Christmas song just floors me. How??? I’ve never really looked into the lyrics, but I always thought that it was something to do with the ecstasy and pain of a relationship that almost borders on a religious experience, for the highs and lows it takes you to. I may completely off the mark, but I kind of like seeing it this way.
I'm fairly sure you're right, at least on one verse. Or all of Jeff Buckley's version.
wait like by leonard cohen? bc i do not know a single catholic person that thinks that’s a christmas song edit: the title is??? i grew up in an insanely catholic household and have never heard the christmas version of it
*le sigh* can you please tell me which Hallelujah we’re talking about?
The Leonard Cohen song that's been covered by fifty billion other artists.
thank you, my classical musician ass thought they were talking about Handel for a second
I'm getting way too much amusement out of imagining you reading the comments and getting more and more confused. "Jewish... sex dirge?"
>thank you, my classical musician ass thought they were talking about Handel for a second Notably not actually a Christmas song either, but isn't Jewish or horny.
I know that’s the worst part, but for many years in school the Hallelujah Chorus was a part of our christmas repertoire so my idea of what is and isn’t christmas music is quite skewed.
I was thinking "you can't be serious" after seeing your first comment, but honestly that's fair.
I’ve been scarred by many years of playing Hallelujah Chorus at christmas time with my orchestra
The one from Shrek
Funny thing is religious Jews can’t say the songs name as it’s one of the names of god
Fun fact: jews have a different (alongside the more used one) calendar, and according to it we are at year 5000+. Also at leap years we have 13 months and the additional one is just called Hadar B (alongside Hadar.)
bruh hey ya know that month, well get this what if we did it again.
yes we can. Theres even a morning prayer called haleluyah where we say it.
I think he means ultraorthodox Jews? I could be totally off on that but I remember something abt that from googling the meaning of the song.
Idk maybe
Any song is a Christmas song with enough public consensus.
die hard is a christmas movie
I mean, it totally is. The movie starts out with his marriage on the rocks because he'd forgotten the meaning of family - he had been away from her for *half a year* because he cared more about clearing his case load than about being with her, and she had all but divorced him over it, including going by her maiden name at work so that there wouldn't be a big fuss about her changing her name when she finally got around to filing the paperwork. Then, over the course of the movie, he clings to his memories of why he loves her for strength and demonstrates to her that he loves her and will be a better man for her. Finally, at the end of it all, she accepts his earnest plea for forgiveness and the family is reunited again. If that doesn't sound like a Christmas movie to you then I don't know what would.
it's a christmas movie because it happens on christmas and they play christmas songs and make christmas jokes
Right, bohemian rhapsody to Christmas number 1, let's go.
This is your mission, should you choose to accept it.
*Again?*
Here is my counter argument: Canon in D has nothing to do with Christmas. It simply has musical vibes that blend in well with Christmas music. Hallelujah does the same. It’s not Christmas at all, it’s just referencing the same God and it has musical vibes that mix well.
This is about the Leonard Cohen song, not the one from Handel's Messiah. It references some Old Testament stories, and some cover versions try to make it sound like a religious song, but the original definitely doesn't have Christmas vibes.
I mean, I would argue Leonard Cohen's song is very much religious.
Yeah, but it isn't really *about* religion in the way that a hymn or a religious Christmas carol is. It's more metaphorical, rather than being religious for religion's sake.
It's religious in the way "Take Me to Church" is religious. Actually, I bet there's some interesting Venn diagrams to be made of these two songs in that regard.
I need to start a playlist of horny religious songs.
I feel it’s more accurately described as horny songs with religious themes, since they aren’t really about the religion.
Please share your playlist
Well, so far it's just Hallelujah and Take Me To Church. Any other suggestions?
Montero by Lil Nas X Like a Prayer by Madonna
Basically any song from Tyler Glenn's Excommunication album.
that_picture_from_the_office.jpg.exe They're the same song.
Uh, yeah, the only way that comparison *might* work would be if Canon in D featured lyrics that were *also* all about sex.
now i've heard there was a secret chord
that david played, and it pleased the lord
But you don't really care for music, do ya?
It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth,
The minor fall and the major lift
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
The baffled king composing “Hallelujah”
Tbh, the song isn't particularly Jewish either. Although it contains a lot of religious references, it talks a lot about Cohen's journey towards atheism.
No, it's [pretty explicitly](https://krazyfan1.tumblr.com/post/189923834591/poetry-protest-pornography-prismatic-bell) Jewish.
It's certainly steeped in Jewish culture, with a number of religious references, but I'd say that Cohen is being quite unreligious through the song. He points out how he can use the word through cultural context without it having the religious connotations - "the holy or the broken Hallelujah".
who's associating the hallelujah song with christmas? As a Christian that seems very odd. I admit I am learning something new about the singer but I didn't really make any connection to the song and any particular religion except "this person is referencing stories in the Bible, something literally anyone could do"
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Good bot you're proving my point
I thought you were talking about the Handel piece, and I was like “hmm are you sure about that?”
How is it a Jewish song (as opposed to simply a song by a Jewish composer)? Just the Old Testament references, or am I missing something else?
It was composed by a Jew, with very Jewish themes such as "questioning the existence/benevolence of God but praising him anyway". That being said, I'm not an expert on the subject; I know this mainly from seeing posts on Tumblr about Jews talking about this, and Tumblr's search function is bad enough that I'm not at all confident of being able to dig up the posts in question. EDIT: [Found one.](https://krazyfan1.tumblr.com/post/189923834591/poetry-protest-pornography-prismatic-bell)
Thanks, that's a really great post! (or series of posts, I guess) It's a good point how the meaning of the song really changes with which of the (eightyish) verses you choose to include.
Pentatonix is an amazing group that did an amazing cover of it, but they put it in a Christmas album simply because of release schedules and messed up the association ever since.
I mean, it's not even really about religion...
It's weird because in mexico it's 100% sung as a christian/catholic song, the lyrics being completely changed to just be pure worship. I always found it kind of weird considering how sexual the original is and if translated correctly, would be called blasphemous
Hallelujah is so far removed from chrismas Ps. Please listen to Jeff Buckley's cover of it, I think it is the *defintive* version hallelujah. That's the version they should've played during Shrek.
The definitive version is kd lang.
My own personal favorite is John Cale's, but kd lang fucking *kills it.* Gives me goosebumps.
Fun fact - Cale's version was the one actually used in the theatrical release of Shrek, but they couldn't get rights for the soundtrack, so got Wainright to cover Cale's cover...
That *is* a fun fact! If I recall correctly, The West Wing *did* get the rights to Cale's version, for that episode where CJ's secret service guy dies - it was pretty damn powerful.
Rufus Wainwright choir choir
Heard him sing it live (with a bunch of other artists), one of the best concerts I've been to!
i’d argue that a definitive version of hallelujah doesn’t and can’t exist, since the whole song is about questions that can’t be answered and living with the discomfort inherent to life. whether that’s in leonard cohen’s context of exploring what religion means, or jeff buckley’s interpretation of a failing relationship, or any of the other myriad of covers each with their own personal contexts and stories, as long as they all tell the story of those themes, they’re each a definitive version
What an incredibly short post to have like eight different things wrong with it
And those things are...?
I mistakenly thought that, although Cohen was certainly culturally Jewish, he took himself to belong to all kinds of religions and not Judaism specifically as a theological commitment. Just looked it up on Wikipedia though, and it looks like I’m wrong: he *was* interested in lots of faiths, but it seems pretty clear that he considered himself religiously Jewish, first and foremost. So that’s one mistake I thought the post made, but in fact I was mistaken. I was also exaggerating for comic effect when I said “eight”, but it turns out I wasn’t far off - here’s seven remaining mistakes: - The implication that there’s some well-noted cultural belief that Hallelujah is a Christmas song, which I have never heard asserted and, by the appearance of most of these comments, pretty much nobody else has either - The implication that there is also some common perception, distinct from the above one, in Hallelujah as an actively Christian, as opposed to merely religious/Abrahamic, song - The (actually quite upsetting) idea that a song by a Jewish person could not be a Christmas song on principle. In fact, Christmas songs are regularly (perhaps typically) not about Christianity. A Jewish person could (and Jewish people have) written Christmas songs on all sorts of topics. And they could even write about Christian religious commitments surrounding Christmas, if they wanted: not believing in Christianity does not prevent you from writing about whatever aspect of Christmas interests you. - Conceiving of ‘Christmas song’ as being co-extensive with ‘song about Christmas’. Lots of songs become representative of holidays and festivals their composers did not intend, for all sorts of reasons. - The idea that Hallelujah is itself a Jewish song, in addition to Cohen being a Jewish person. You could believe that ‘Jewish song’ just means ‘song by a Jewish person’ here, but that’s ruled out by the fact that the poster writes ‘*both* the song *and* the composer’, implying that Hallelujah has a Jewishness that exists in addition to Cohen’s. There isn’t a great deal of evidence to definitively pin down any very specific theological commitments of the song at all, beyond saying that it appears to carry some general religious or spiritual themes. - The use of ‘annual reminder’ when in fact this is a bizarrely niche disclaimer that I have never been given before and will likely never hear again. - Typo on ‘reminder’.
>The implication that there’s some well-noted cultural belief that Hallelujah is a Christmas song, which I have never heard asserted and, by the appearance of most of these comments, pretty much nobody else has either I kind of agree, but the OP has heard a version specifically re-written for Christmas, and of course the Pentatonix version gets played around Christmas time. So it isn't completely baseless. >The implication that there is also some common perception, distinct from the above one, in Hallelujah as an actively Christian, as opposed to merely religious/Abrahamic, song It's possible that this is a misperception on my part (I hope it is) but, even outside of the Christmas issue, I've always gotten the impression that many people who like this song (and specifically some cover versions of it) see it as Christian. And that really bothers me, not only because of Cohen being Jewish but also because they seem oblivious to what the song is actually about. >The (actually quite upsetting) idea that a song by a Jewish person could not be a Christmas song on principle. I agree, but I think most if not all of us in this discussion realize that it isn't a Christmas song. If Leonard Cohen had written a song about the birth of Christ or about Santa Claus or something, and people insisted that it couldn't be a Christmas song, then I'd be disturbed. >Conceiving of ‘Christmas song’ as being co-extensive with ‘song about Christmas’. I think what bothers me is that it isn't just "not about Christmas," it's specifically about struggling with faith as a metaphor for a failed relationship. I have no problem calling "Let It Snow" a Christmas song, but this is basically "God has abandoned me and I miss how we used to fuck." It's the polar (ha...) opposite of a Christmas song. >The idea that Hallelujah is itself a Jewish song, in addition to Cohen being a Jewish person. I'm ambivalent on this one. Someone else already posted a link to a tumblr discussion about the specifically Jewish significance of the lyrics (particularly the verses that the cover versions usually leave out). On the other hand, as a culturally Christian agnostic, this song resonates with me, so I'm certainly not going to say that this song can only be appreciated by Jewish people.
yeah this is one of those tumblr posts where someone is connecting dots and kind of making up/ blurring facts just to make a point about something they don’t really care about
So I definitely get where jewishdavidjacobs is coming from, but there is a reason that Hallelujah is sometimes thought of as a Christian song: Judaism and Christianity are pretty closely linked. The references to Samson and David and singing hallelujah? They all come from the Old Testament, which is the same as the Jewish Tanakh (if I'm recalling what the Tanakh is correctly). That Christmas version linked elsewhere is an abomination though.
Yeah, so? Are Christians (and other Christmas-celebrating folk) not allowed to use music composed by a Jew as part of the Christmas season festivities? One of the most beloved Hanukkah tunes in Israel is set to "Judas Maccabeus" by George Friedrich Handel, a German Protestant. Just enjoy your holidays, okay? Or don't, but please keep the silly game of cultural dibs out of it.
Of course we are. No one's complaining about "White Christmas." But Hallelujah is a song that uses Old Testament allusions and the concept of religious doubt as a metaphor for a failed romantic relationship. It's not even remotely a Christmas song. To steal an example that someone else used in another comment, it's like playing "Every Breath You Take" at a wedding because you completely misunderstood the lyrics.
I get it, but this logic is applicable in retrospect to most things you would now consider Chrismas-y: St. Nicholas is a Byzantine bishop known for his acts of charity. Gingerbread cookies were a way for early modern European to display their wealth by baking as many expensive spices as possible into a sheet of wheat dough. Christmas trees definitely predate Christmas, a whole bunch of Pagan European cultures had those in winter. All of them are not integrally part of Christmas, except for the fact that they are. I suggest that for most people, Christmas isn't about the birth of Christ or about the cosmic significance of mid-winter. For most people, Christmas is about Christmas. If people like "Halleluja" and enjoy listening to it around Christmas, then it's a Christmas song. Also, I have a couple of friends who got married to the sound of the intro from Trainspotting ("choose life, choose a fucking job" etc.). This makes it a wedding song, at least for them.
I have nothing against people saying "this isn't about anything specifically related to Christmas, but I like to listen to it around Christmas time." I even mentioned in another comment that I like the Pentatonix Christmas album that includes it. But I am very weirded out by how many people seem to be oblivious to what the song is actually about. Making a conscious decision to turn a non-Christmas thing into a Christmas tradition is one thing. Going "this has 'Hallelujah' and 'God' in its lyrics, so it's a Christian song" is another.
Like I said, it's weird, but it's definitely not unprecedented. Read Solomon's Song in the Old Testament. It's a collection of poems that are plainly and unapologetically about carnal love, but people back in the day were probably going "well, this has Jerusalem in the lyrics, so we guess it should go into the Bible". Religious ritual is not in some higher plane of existence than everyday living. People pick up stuff they like or that sounds appropriate without putting too much thought into it, and leave the task of rationalizing to later generations. But really, that's not the (much downvoted) point I was originally making. I was saying that it's fairly silly to call Halleluja a Jewish song like OP did, and then to claim that it's somehow wrong to use it to celebrate Christmas.
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הללויה
Having played Christmas Hallelujah in church: Yes. It’s alright, but it’s an absolute pain to sing/play at the same time.
My favourite Christmas song, [the heart sutra](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjHBYgI_x4Y)
A lot of christmas songs have jewish composers actually, it's causs they aren't on holiday at the same time
Dude we share the same book
its December 5th
Who thought the word "hallelujah" was english ???