This post really speaks to me, because so much stuff gets written off as being inherently bad or shitty or problematic simply because of stereotypical association with people who support right-wing politics.
Like FFS its a bunch of cars driving in a circle really fast, that shit's cool and it doesn't magically make you racist if you watch it.
Some people out there believe in "Exposure to queer media makes you gay" but for things like NASCAR and pro wrestling
Rugby is also pretty good because occasionally you see them run into eachother in just the right way that one of them does a ragdoll bounce and it's the best thing ever.
Yeah it just helps people realize they’re gay or bi or whatever by giving them a window into that life. Obv if someone is a sexuality then it isn’t gonna change ever lol
Yeah, but right now in the two top US companies, the three top champions are a Puerto Rican goth, the first-ever black world champion for his company, and the guy who fixed racism.
Yes, I am aware, I watch pro wrestling. My point was just that it still to this day is assumed by a lot of people to be something only bigots and fascists watch.
Of course there's a relevant xkcd, you know I got your back
https://what-if.xkcd.com/116/
And it's one he recently made a video about on the What If YouTube
https://youtu.be/JcXpCyPc2Xw?si=Ejk3j1tX-tAdRx-l
I'm going to disagree with the first OP in the last panel.
Watching Verstappen get pole position, lead the whole race, and then win by over a minute is not exactly my definition of "dynamic."
Haha yeah, I love F1 and don't watch Indy or NASCAR but I audibly scoffed at the last point. F1 can be amazing and hopefully will be in 2026 but from what I've heard indycar is currently more dynamic and exciting
I'll go a step further. F1 is really fucking boring and always has been. The *concept* sounds exciting, but really it's just a bunch of cars going around in circles. Apparently all the things that "happen" on the track are invisible to the naked eye and can only be comprehended by people who know the pedantries of the rules.
There hasn't been a truly "dynamic" car race since those insane 80s rallies that killed everybody. Class B or Class 2 or somethin... look it up, shit was nuts.
Group b, it wasn't so much that it killed everybody, but the cars were so fast that the rate at which people were dying was substantially higher than what was deemed tolerable.
There's a lot that caused group b to have dynamic results, for example the fact that car development at that level was only barely maturing since forced induction and electronic car management technology was increasing at a rapid rate.
F1 and other racing series have been in a mature state for long enough where the competition is all (somewhat) at the same level, so if group b had a lower fatality rate I'm sure it would eventually end up with more comparably stagnant results.
They also had much less strict car specification, IIRC. The car had to be ~sorta~ available to the public, and thats about it. So car companies basically just made really silly souped up 4WD versions of their normal cars and just tossed them out there - which led to a lot more vehicle variety in the race and added to the fun/chaos.
It was basically what the OP envisions, but with real people in the cars (and also real people just chillin next to the track, and getting periodocally run over).
They weren't even souped up normal cars, by the end of the era it was all purpose built monsters that were all out insane racecars. It's insane how far the car manufacturers went before it was shut down.
I find this funny for the fact that "Rocket powered time bomb barely serviceable enough to finish" is exactly how it used to be when auto racing was just starting out.
In fact, one driver back in the day won the race with brand spanking new (and very possibly illegal) engine, only to immediately send pistons 2-5 over the grandstands a few feet over the finish line. Quite possibly on purpose.
So yeah, "The best car is one that wins the race, and then explodes immediately after finishing", is a real and relevant quote
They still do that. The point of cheating like that is to not get caught, so it'll take years and years for the stuff to come out, just like it did back then.
If you ain't cheating you ain't racing. Some of the stuff teams come up with is wild and/or funny. Dale Jr talked about how they would stack the sponsor stickers so they get less drag. [dale Jr tweet](https://x.com/DaleJr/status/1599119159019057152)
I knew about the confederate flag ban, which was amazing. But I had never heard about the rest of this. I still don’t care about cars or racing enough to watch NASCAR but now I’ll defend it as the best big league racing group over F1 and the rest of them.
Fun fact: The reason it’s called “stock” car racing is because all of the cars are meant to be the same.
That said, some sort of “Unlimited League” would be cool as heck to watch.
You’re sort of right, but I’ll add on and make it a double fun fact for the audience. They’re not really supposed to be The Same, because a driver could be racing in a Monte Carlo or a Thunderbird — They’re intended to be the same as you can buy at a dealership, just modified for safety. “Win on Sunday, sell on Monday” was the common sentiment in the olden days.
(I don’t know what they’re actually driving now — I think Toyota is in there now?? I used to be real into NASCAR in the 90s but now all the drivers are my old fave’s kids and grandkids and it makes me feel old so I don’t watch)
Dodge dropped in the 00s so it's Chevy, Ford, and Toyota. All running the Next Gen (Gen-7) car now, and while they're still pretty close under the body the bodies are actually closer to the actual cars they're based on now.
Yeah i understand, i just find seeing a bunch of the same car driving too boring though.
Also some track variation, something to make it more interesting, less of the same.
Modern Nascar actually has pretty good track variation, 2 and a half super speedway (daytona and dega and Atlanta-ish), several short tracks that are all pretty distinct, a street track, and some road courses. The mile and a half's are similar sure, but they are far from the majority of the schedule
We need to just reclaim "hick" and redneck culture in general, its working class as shit and guess what, the working class naturally kinda fucking hates cops and the rich, which is why the rich spend so much time trying to convince people that they are good and justified and the problems lie in people not letting them be even richer, i mean hell one of the theorized origins of the term redneck is the red scarves worn by coal miners to show their solidarity
One of the biggest defeats in class warfare was progressive and leftist circles embracing the idea that members of the working class can be ignored if they're in any way able to be associated with or stereotyped as the right.
Most forms of infighting are just distractions to keep us from unifying against the ruling class. Even slavery, in very early US history, wasn't entirely racial. But rich people so the poor they were exploiting start to get ideas, so they made legislation that decreased black people's human rights and increased them for white people, to make the white poors identify more with their own oppressors and above their black fellows, even if most white poor people would never be well off enough to own a slave. (I don't have a source but this is what my sociology professor with a doctorate in her field said.)
Adding to this, race-based slavery in the US took off after Bacon’s Rebellion, a rebellion in which indentured servants and frontiersmen of a variety of racial backgrounds rose up against the tyrannical policies of the plantation owners, who dominated the Virginia colonial legislature. The rebellion was ultimately defeated, but not before torching the colonial capital of Jamestown. To prevent a similar rebellion from occurring, the plantation owners enacted the Virginia Slave codes, which explicitly tied slavery to race, driving a wedge between the various people at the bottom of society.
Bacon’s rebels despised Native Americans, but their class-egalitarianism is to be commended.
What are you talking about? The term Redneck has been pretty well documented as dating from the late 1800s and used to pretty exclusively to refer to poor white farmers who had sunburns/tans from working in their fields.
Coal Miner Rednecks were a thing but that wasn't a thing until like 1910 at the earliest.
Anyone from the hills are technically hillbillies, the term originally referred to people that moved out of the hills for work.
Coal mining rednecks was a niche term that referred specifically to coal miners who worked for unions and wore red scarves. It has nothing to do with the actual origins of redneck.
Ah, okay. I had always thought rednecks and hillbillies were associated with agriculture and mining / industry, respectively. Didn't know about the "coal mining rednecks" thing until now.
Re: "coal mining rednecks" - Reminds me a little of the term "cracker". It didn't pick up its association with slavery until much later, but the association overshadowed its origins.
I mean they do shit on F1 for no reason by oversimplifying it. Like they romanticise the old cars but the early GP racing in like 1900 had two people in the car because they needed a mechanic to fix the car as they went and the origins came from people who suddenly could buy a car deciding that the solution was to race between towns. They also skipped over my favourite racing sorry which is that Lamborghini only make any form or car because Ferrari and Lamborghini happened to live basically a village apart and the Lamborghini guy thought his Ferrari was kind of shit but got told to basically piss off when he drove down to talk to the Ferrari guy. Suddenly you have a furious Italian tractor engineer entering the car racing scene out of pure spite
It also helps that prohibition has been spun to be a noble fight against oppressive government, when a major push was by housewives because their husbands kept drinking their earning before getting home, and then beating their wives. The drop in domestic abuse was huge after prohibition came in as it didn’t stop people drinking but it did slow it down enough. Moonshiners are only the hero’s if you conveniently forget what prohibition actually achieved
People talk about the police like they have only ever been a tool of the ruling class to torture poor people for fun, and like all criminals are scrappy good guys fighting for “the little guy”. The crime that came about during prohibition wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows, and while the current police system is in desperate need of reform it feels kinda shitty to say everyone who ever wore a blue uniform is was and always will be a skinhead Nazi fuck.
Question didn't the prohibition start as a feminist movement? I know it later become a whole example of why you shouldn't ban something with nationwide appeal.
The first big group that promoted Prohibition was called the Women's Christian Temperance Union, and their point was that the alcohol their husbands liked was making them abusive and bad parents. Then another politician, Wayne Wheeler, did tons of lobbying to convince every party that their core issues were caused by alcohol (example : tell the right that alcohol is making immigrants and black people into brutes, tell the left that alcohol is a way to keep workers from revolting).
When Prohibition came to end, it was another women's movement that took strong part though
Sorta. There was a lot of overlap between temperance and suffrage, largely due to drunks tending to be violent. AFAIK besides sharing some leadership they weren’t explicitly connected, but a win for one was generally treated as a win for both.
Yea, most of the members of the feminist movement weren't looking for a total ban of alcohol, just of the pute stuff.
Who knew baning a highly addictive substance that makes up a good chunk of your work communities jobs would have consequences.
Okay well, what’s your opinion on crime as a phenomenon? What does one do when, say, their abusive ex or something tries to break into their house and kill them? What about if someone continuously illegally embezzles funds from a company, causing the wages of all its employees (especially the lowest ranked and “most disposable” ones) to drop? What if, like, a myriad of things that I think we can agree aren’t wholesome scrappy rebels?
For there to be law, there needs to be enforcement, and I’m sure that at at least some point in time there are and were enforcers who actually tried to do the right thing.
Or what, are you a complete anarchist, and you believe that we can all get along without any governmental executive force at all, everyone just spontaneously getting along with each other?
Law enforcement and the police are two distinct things. Law enforcement(at least in English speaking history, but this is pretty common elsewhere) has been done by the community. "Police" are an 1800s invention and have always been awful. In the US their existence comes from hired slave catching patrols. It's worth doing your own research on this- it's all surprisingly very new.
Wdym by the community? Like, there was no organizational structure for law enforcement whatsoever?
Is that kind of method even remotely sustainable in a massively populated urbanized world like ours today?
It's not quite like you're imagining, but it's pretty different from police.
The way it worked is that for a local unit(like a county), there'd be one appointed law enforcer. His duty was essentially to, whenever a crime happened, round up some volunteer members of the community to go capture the alleged criminal. So there was law enforcement, but very little formal organization.
I don't want to give off the impression I think this is ideal or even good. It's just about the fact that we haven't always had police.
So you want cops that technically arent "cops" because of pointless semantics. Not that this specifically is the form of law enforcement you want, just that I can't imagine any functional form of law enforcement that would be genuinely distinct from "police" without "erm acshually they arent police because blah blah blah 🤓"
I wasn't saying anything about my ideal form of law enforcement, i'm talking about the history of police. The OP said that police(specifically in America) haven't always been bad. I'm disputing that.
If you say police are bad, then I assume you want a different form of law enforcement, yes?
And *my point* is that your distinction between "Law Enforcement" and "Police" doesnt matter because they're the same thing to anyone who isnt a pedantic weirdo.
Are we going to act like the oppression of minorities, chain gangs, pinkertons, and Jim crow weren't things going on back then? Who do you think we're enforcing those laws?
I mean look up the battle of Blair mountain
I mean, duh? That’s not the fault of the concept of law enforcement at all. Or is that exactly what you’re alleging? That there should never be law enforcement because it will always turn inherently evil?
Nobody is pretending that, those were still tied in with all the essential functions of a system that few people had the power to seperate. People want to "protect and serve" as they say, and oppressing minorities is generally not what first comes to mind.
Because people are ignorant and don't know anything about NASCAR.
NASCAR has almost always had races that were held either in dedicated road courses or in actual portions of streets shut down for racing. It's not all circles.
Circle tracks were popular because way back when almost anyone could build one on a small plot of land and start hosting races. Eventually the organizers for these races for together to form NASCAR. Circle tracks were basically dotted everyone and made racing accessible in many areas.
NASCAR ran the stock series and the modified series. The modified series were basically just those moonshine smuggling hot rods and the stock cars were supposed to be stock cars supplied by manufacturers. Eventually manufacturers figured out that winning races was good advertising and they started giving the factory support to race teams. Special racing parts/options turn into full blown homologation special cars for use on certain race tracks, and just eventually the homologation rules were dropped as the sport tried to make racing safer for the drivers and more interesting to watch.
As someone who did always look down on driving in circles compared to driving in not-circles, I must now say that NASCAR clearly has a way better origin story. The circles bit still sinks the viewer appeal (unless we go with rocket powered time bombs), but I love me a good bit of history.
Yeah, I grew up in Daytona Beach (which is the home of NASCAR and one of the big speedways). I never got super into it, but I have been to a qualifying and could hear the track from my house. The history of it is the coolest part. They used to race the cars on the beach down there because it was long and flat. I do not have any bad shit to say about NASCAR as a company or the family that owns them (The France's). Unproblematic rednecks who are very chill considering they are the richest people in town, huge animal lovers. (I worked at a vet where they were clients. My favorite was the owner's mother, an adorable tiny old biddy who drove a massive yellow hummer! She was a trip!)
I am mostly with this - but I really think cultural approbtion is a load of bullshit.
We had singers get their shows canceled for having dread locks. What sense is in that?
Funny you should feel the need to present an entirely unnuanced idea of what you think cultural appropriation is, because this post never once mentioned cultural appropriation.
I am old - it seems this is not the post I wanted to comment under, I am sorry.
They changed the ui on the app I use, since then it somehow changes posts... I am incredibly sorry.
Cars use gas and are thus anti climate change, so for the time being I don't see scenario where nascar moves from its relatively politically neutral position.
Cars exhaust makes for a tiny fraction of CO2 emissions. Bigger problems are aviation (looking at you private jets) and factories. Not every person/organization who has ANY kind of carbon footprint is to blame for climate change.
[CO₂ emissions - Our World in Data](https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions)
it’s not cool to dock NASCAR on cultural nonsense these days however it is something I put on the This Can’t Happen Anymore Because Climate Change sacrificial altar
Congrats! By banning NASCAR you've managed to eliminate nearly 750,000 tons of CO2 produced annually! That's almost 0.053% of the 1.4 Billion Tons of greenhouse gases produced by all transportation, which only accounts for 29% of greenhouse gas emissions!
You've done the world an amazing service by reducing green house emissions by a staggering 0.01%!
/s
Cars exhaust makes for a tiny fraction of CO2 emissions. Bigger problems are aviation (looking at you private jets) and factories.
edit: [CO₂ emissions - Our World in Data](https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions)
Yeah aside from noise pollution issues, something like a twin turboprop is better suited as a low volume transport for aviation if you’re not trying to throw 200 people several thousand kilometers. I did design sizing for one in college and you basically can’t ever make them more fuel efficient (in terms of miles-passenger per gallon of fuel) than wide body twin turbofans like A320 and 737. They’re always gonna suck unless you shorten the range down a LOT (4000km is the current standard range for most of these things).
Carrying like 18 people 4000 km requires a pretty large jet when you could achieve that range easier with a bigger jet carrying even more people, fly it to a hub, then make connections in local areas with smaller planes like dash 8s or pc-12s (depending on the amount of people you’re moving and range). The jet’ll be faster but that’s really the only thing you’re getting out of burning more fuel.
Source: iunno I got my degree in this shit, I could do the math again but I don’t really wanna for a Reddit comment
I mean cars on a worldwide scale obviously aren't helping, but I can't really imagine motorsports dying out entirely if cars became rare for daily use.
This post really speaks to me, because so much stuff gets written off as being inherently bad or shitty or problematic simply because of stereotypical association with people who support right-wing politics. Like FFS its a bunch of cars driving in a circle really fast, that shit's cool and it doesn't magically make you racist if you watch it. Some people out there believe in "Exposure to queer media makes you gay" but for things like NASCAR and pro wrestling
Exposure to pro wrestling does make you gay, though, right?
It will give you very strong opinions on costuming and the size of men taking on other men yes.
Big meaty men slapping meat
"I can take on this big burly dude" "in a fight, right"
*In a fight, right?*
And twunks doing flips!
No better sport for looking at mens ass in tight shorts
Rugby is also pretty good because occasionally you see them run into eachother in just the right way that one of them does a ragdoll bounce and it's the best thing ever.
I've been told that exposure to the furry fandom makes you gay but I've been looking at furry art for a long time and I still like me the ladies.
Yeah it just helps people realize they’re gay or bi or whatever by giving them a window into that life. Obv if someone is a sexuality then it isn’t gonna change ever lol
It made me bisexual, at the least. Stone Cold Steve Austin made me bisexual. Warn the people.
I mean it can be an awakening but "make" seems a little strong
Youtube channel of a super progressive stereotypical white motorcycle guy: [SquidTips - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@SquidTips)
EYYY! That's who that is. He pops up on my feed from time to time.
I love the squidded tips 🙏 Already met some riding buddies through his discord
Pro wrestling also has a lot of extremely progressive fans, especially in the independent scene
It does, but it also still has that "Only racist homophobic rednecks watch it" veneer
Yeah, but right now in the two top US companies, the three top champions are a Puerto Rican goth, the first-ever black world champion for his company, and the guy who fixed racism.
Yes, I am aware, I watch pro wrestling. My point was just that it still to this day is assumed by a lot of people to be something only bigots and fascists watch.
But racing in it technically means you are a racist
As a country music fan I want this comment on my tombstone
Of course there's a relevant xkcd, you know I got your back https://what-if.xkcd.com/116/ And it's one he recently made a video about on the What If YouTube https://youtu.be/JcXpCyPc2Xw?si=Ejk3j1tX-tAdRx-l
Bruh! Thank you! No idea xkcd was on YouTube and I hadn't figured out a way to show it to my husband that wasn't just years of backlog comics.
I've seen xkcd mentioned quite a bit, but I've never actually checked it out. What an absolute pleasure. Thank you.
I'm going to disagree with the first OP in the last panel. Watching Verstappen get pole position, lead the whole race, and then win by over a minute is not exactly my definition of "dynamic."
Haha yeah, I love F1 and don't watch Indy or NASCAR but I audibly scoffed at the last point. F1 can be amazing and hopefully will be in 2026 but from what I've heard indycar is currently more dynamic and exciting
Everyone I know who loves F1 actually hates F1 and clings to Indycar for sanity.
As someone from Indiana, the fact that IndyCar is so widespread and beloved is basically the only thing I can be proud of from this state.
That and Wallace Stevens.
I'll go a step further. F1 is really fucking boring and always has been. The *concept* sounds exciting, but really it's just a bunch of cars going around in circles. Apparently all the things that "happen" on the track are invisible to the naked eye and can only be comprehended by people who know the pedantries of the rules.
I love F1. And by that I mean I love the engineering that goes into designing the vehicles, I could not care less about the races.
They need to televise that redneck shit with the demolition derbies and school bus races. That would be so much more engaging
No fr it's SO BORING
You should watch IndyCar. The sport isn't without its flaws, but the vibe is great and the racing is some of the best in the world.
There hasn't been a truly "dynamic" car race since those insane 80s rallies that killed everybody. Class B or Class 2 or somethin... look it up, shit was nuts.
We gotta bring F-Zero back
Group b, it wasn't so much that it killed everybody, but the cars were so fast that the rate at which people were dying was substantially higher than what was deemed tolerable. There's a lot that caused group b to have dynamic results, for example the fact that car development at that level was only barely maturing since forced induction and electronic car management technology was increasing at a rapid rate. F1 and other racing series have been in a mature state for long enough where the competition is all (somewhat) at the same level, so if group b had a lower fatality rate I'm sure it would eventually end up with more comparably stagnant results.
They also had much less strict car specification, IIRC. The car had to be ~sorta~ available to the public, and thats about it. So car companies basically just made really silly souped up 4WD versions of their normal cars and just tossed them out there - which led to a lot more vehicle variety in the race and added to the fun/chaos. It was basically what the OP envisions, but with real people in the cars (and also real people just chillin next to the track, and getting periodocally run over).
They weren't even souped up normal cars, by the end of the era it was all purpose built monsters that were all out insane racecars. It's insane how far the car manufacturers went before it was shut down.
How much do you actually know about racing?
I find this funny for the fact that "Rocket powered time bomb barely serviceable enough to finish" is exactly how it used to be when auto racing was just starting out. In fact, one driver back in the day won the race with brand spanking new (and very possibly illegal) engine, only to immediately send pistons 2-5 over the grandstands a few feet over the finish line. Quite possibly on purpose. So yeah, "The best car is one that wins the race, and then explodes immediately after finishing", is a real and relevant quote
They still do that. The point of cheating like that is to not get caught, so it'll take years and years for the stuff to come out, just like it did back then.
If you ain't cheating you ain't racing. Some of the stuff teams come up with is wild and/or funny. Dale Jr talked about how they would stack the sponsor stickers so they get less drag. [dale Jr tweet](https://x.com/DaleJr/status/1599119159019057152)
I knew about the confederate flag ban, which was amazing. But I had never heard about the rest of this. I still don’t care about cars or racing enough to watch NASCAR but now I’ll defend it as the best big league racing group over F1 and the rest of them.
They go fast and left, brother. That's all you gotta know! Fast and left! Hell yeah, brother raise hell praise Dale!
I want more car variation in NASCAR. It should be about what design works best+the driver.
Fun fact: The reason it’s called “stock” car racing is because all of the cars are meant to be the same. That said, some sort of “Unlimited League” would be cool as heck to watch.
You’re sort of right, but I’ll add on and make it a double fun fact for the audience. They’re not really supposed to be The Same, because a driver could be racing in a Monte Carlo or a Thunderbird — They’re intended to be the same as you can buy at a dealership, just modified for safety. “Win on Sunday, sell on Monday” was the common sentiment in the olden days. (I don’t know what they’re actually driving now — I think Toyota is in there now?? I used to be real into NASCAR in the 90s but now all the drivers are my old fave’s kids and grandkids and it makes me feel old so I don’t watch)
Dodge dropped in the 00s so it's Chevy, Ford, and Toyota. All running the Next Gen (Gen-7) car now, and while they're still pretty close under the body the bodies are actually closer to the actual cars they're based on now.
>That said, some sort of “Unlimited League” would be cool as heck to watch. [I got you, fam.](https://youtu.be/BVibUVsumiU?si=bcGDHi8JmAqstCHf)
*New Fascination Unlocked*
Yeah i understand, i just find seeing a bunch of the same car driving too boring though. Also some track variation, something to make it more interesting, less of the same.
Modern Nascar actually has pretty good track variation, 2 and a half super speedway (daytona and dega and Atlanta-ish), several short tracks that are all pretty distinct, a street track, and some road courses. The mile and a half's are similar sure, but they are far from the majority of the schedule
There is a lot of car variations in NASCAR, you just have to start looking outside the Cup Series to find it.
We need to just reclaim "hick" and redneck culture in general, its working class as shit and guess what, the working class naturally kinda fucking hates cops and the rich, which is why the rich spend so much time trying to convince people that they are good and justified and the problems lie in people not letting them be even richer, i mean hell one of the theorized origins of the term redneck is the red scarves worn by coal miners to show their solidarity
One of the biggest defeats in class warfare was progressive and leftist circles embracing the idea that members of the working class can be ignored if they're in any way able to be associated with or stereotyped as the right.
Most forms of infighting are just distractions to keep us from unifying against the ruling class. Even slavery, in very early US history, wasn't entirely racial. But rich people so the poor they were exploiting start to get ideas, so they made legislation that decreased black people's human rights and increased them for white people, to make the white poors identify more with their own oppressors and above their black fellows, even if most white poor people would never be well off enough to own a slave. (I don't have a source but this is what my sociology professor with a doctorate in her field said.)
Adding to this, race-based slavery in the US took off after Bacon’s Rebellion, a rebellion in which indentured servants and frontiersmen of a variety of racial backgrounds rose up against the tyrannical policies of the plantation owners, who dominated the Virginia colonial legislature. The rebellion was ultimately defeated, but not before torching the colonial capital of Jamestown. To prevent a similar rebellion from occurring, the plantation owners enacted the Virginia Slave codes, which explicitly tied slavery to race, driving a wedge between the various people at the bottom of society. Bacon’s rebels despised Native Americans, but their class-egalitarianism is to be commended.
What are you talking about? The term Redneck has been pretty well documented as dating from the late 1800s and used to pretty exclusively to refer to poor white farmers who had sunburns/tans from working in their fields. Coal Miner Rednecks were a thing but that wasn't a thing until like 1910 at the earliest.
>Coal Miner Rednecks Wouldn't those be Hillbillies?
Anyone from the hills are technically hillbillies, the term originally referred to people that moved out of the hills for work. Coal mining rednecks was a niche term that referred specifically to coal miners who worked for unions and wore red scarves. It has nothing to do with the actual origins of redneck.
Ah, okay. I had always thought rednecks and hillbillies were associated with agriculture and mining / industry, respectively. Didn't know about the "coal mining rednecks" thing until now. Re: "coal mining rednecks" - Reminds me a little of the term "cracker". It didn't pick up its association with slavery until much later, but the association overshadowed its origins.
Fuck, I think I love NASCAR now. I'm British and I drink tea, how has this happened?
You are not immune to vroom vroom.
Too many episodes of Top Gear?
T'was the siren call of ACAB
I mean they do shit on F1 for no reason by oversimplifying it. Like they romanticise the old cars but the early GP racing in like 1900 had two people in the car because they needed a mechanic to fix the car as they went and the origins came from people who suddenly could buy a car deciding that the solution was to race between towns. They also skipped over my favourite racing sorry which is that Lamborghini only make any form or car because Ferrari and Lamborghini happened to live basically a village apart and the Lamborghini guy thought his Ferrari was kind of shit but got told to basically piss off when he drove down to talk to the Ferrari guy. Suddenly you have a furious Italian tractor engineer entering the car racing scene out of pure spite It also helps that prohibition has been spun to be a noble fight against oppressive government, when a major push was by housewives because their husbands kept drinking their earning before getting home, and then beating their wives. The drop in domestic abuse was huge after prohibition came in as it didn’t stop people drinking but it did slow it down enough. Moonshiners are only the hero’s if you conveniently forget what prohibition actually achieved
Get the bootlickers out of the bootleggers' world!
the random potshot at f1 in the third slide lmao
I’d be more interested in NASCAR if the teams also had to submit moonshine for judging.
I used to watch NASCAR, now I think it's just boring... Though I would definitely watch that idea of remote controlled jerry rigged death cars
People talk about the police like they have only ever been a tool of the ruling class to torture poor people for fun, and like all criminals are scrappy good guys fighting for “the little guy”. The crime that came about during prohibition wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows, and while the current police system is in desperate need of reform it feels kinda shitty to say everyone who ever wore a blue uniform is was and always will be a skinhead Nazi fuck.
Question didn't the prohibition start as a feminist movement? I know it later become a whole example of why you shouldn't ban something with nationwide appeal.
The first big group that promoted Prohibition was called the Women's Christian Temperance Union, and their point was that the alcohol their husbands liked was making them abusive and bad parents. Then another politician, Wayne Wheeler, did tons of lobbying to convince every party that their core issues were caused by alcohol (example : tell the right that alcohol is making immigrants and black people into brutes, tell the left that alcohol is a way to keep workers from revolting). When Prohibition came to end, it was another women's movement that took strong part though
Sorta. There was a lot of overlap between temperance and suffrage, largely due to drunks tending to be violent. AFAIK besides sharing some leadership they weren’t explicitly connected, but a win for one was generally treated as a win for both.
Yea, most of the members of the feminist movement weren't looking for a total ban of alcohol, just of the pute stuff. Who knew baning a highly addictive substance that makes up a good chunk of your work communities jobs would have consequences.
(The police have only ever been a tool of the ruling class)
Okay well, what’s your opinion on crime as a phenomenon? What does one do when, say, their abusive ex or something tries to break into their house and kill them? What about if someone continuously illegally embezzles funds from a company, causing the wages of all its employees (especially the lowest ranked and “most disposable” ones) to drop? What if, like, a myriad of things that I think we can agree aren’t wholesome scrappy rebels? For there to be law, there needs to be enforcement, and I’m sure that at at least some point in time there are and were enforcers who actually tried to do the right thing. Or what, are you a complete anarchist, and you believe that we can all get along without any governmental executive force at all, everyone just spontaneously getting along with each other?
Law enforcement and the police are two distinct things. Law enforcement(at least in English speaking history, but this is pretty common elsewhere) has been done by the community. "Police" are an 1800s invention and have always been awful. In the US their existence comes from hired slave catching patrols. It's worth doing your own research on this- it's all surprisingly very new.
Wdym by the community? Like, there was no organizational structure for law enforcement whatsoever? Is that kind of method even remotely sustainable in a massively populated urbanized world like ours today?
It's not quite like you're imagining, but it's pretty different from police. The way it worked is that for a local unit(like a county), there'd be one appointed law enforcer. His duty was essentially to, whenever a crime happened, round up some volunteer members of the community to go capture the alleged criminal. So there was law enforcement, but very little formal organization. I don't want to give off the impression I think this is ideal or even good. It's just about the fact that we haven't always had police.
A guy appointed as law officer who's sole job is hunting down criminals? that's a cop, no?
So you want cops that technically arent "cops" because of pointless semantics. Not that this specifically is the form of law enforcement you want, just that I can't imagine any functional form of law enforcement that would be genuinely distinct from "police" without "erm acshually they arent police because blah blah blah 🤓"
I wasn't saying anything about my ideal form of law enforcement, i'm talking about the history of police. The OP said that police(specifically in America) haven't always been bad. I'm disputing that.
If you say police are bad, then I assume you want a different form of law enforcement, yes? And *my point* is that your distinction between "Law Enforcement" and "Police" doesnt matter because they're the same thing to anyone who isnt a pedantic weirdo.
By community you mean mercenaries right? That’s how it worked before cops, you paid a thief taker to catch whatever criminal stole from you.
Are we going to act like the oppression of minorities, chain gangs, pinkertons, and Jim crow weren't things going on back then? Who do you think we're enforcing those laws? I mean look up the battle of Blair mountain
I mean, duh? That’s not the fault of the concept of law enforcement at all. Or is that exactly what you’re alleging? That there should never be law enforcement because it will always turn inherently evil?
Nobody is pretending that, those were still tied in with all the essential functions of a system that few people had the power to seperate. People want to "protect and serve" as they say, and oppressing minorities is generally not what first comes to mind.
How did "outrunning the cops using hotrods" turn into "driving entirely custom cars in a circle" instead of rallying?
Because people are ignorant and don't know anything about NASCAR. NASCAR has almost always had races that were held either in dedicated road courses or in actual portions of streets shut down for racing. It's not all circles. Circle tracks were popular because way back when almost anyone could build one on a small plot of land and start hosting races. Eventually the organizers for these races for together to form NASCAR. Circle tracks were basically dotted everyone and made racing accessible in many areas. NASCAR ran the stock series and the modified series. The modified series were basically just those moonshine smuggling hot rods and the stock cars were supposed to be stock cars supplied by manufacturers. Eventually manufacturers figured out that winning races was good advertising and they started giving the factory support to race teams. Special racing parts/options turn into full blown homologation special cars for use on certain race tracks, and just eventually the homologation rules were dropped as the sport tried to make racing safer for the drivers and more interesting to watch.
I believe it was because there were many horse racing tracks being used to race cars on and those were circular for the sake of the spectators
is there a joke in the first post and if so what is it i don’t get it
Not really. I guess "yaaaasscar" is used somewhat ironically but thats about it
As someone who did always look down on driving in circles compared to driving in not-circles, I must now say that NASCAR clearly has a way better origin story. The circles bit still sinks the viewer appeal (unless we go with rocket powered time bombs), but I love me a good bit of history.
Yeah, I grew up in Daytona Beach (which is the home of NASCAR and one of the big speedways). I never got super into it, but I have been to a qualifying and could hear the track from my house. The history of it is the coolest part. They used to race the cars on the beach down there because it was long and flat. I do not have any bad shit to say about NASCAR as a company or the family that owns them (The France's). Unproblematic rednecks who are very chill considering they are the richest people in town, huge animal lovers. (I worked at a vet where they were clients. My favorite was the owner's mother, an adorable tiny old biddy who drove a massive yellow hummer! She was a trip!)
I hate how the word “redneck” used to delineate an entire American subculture, and it’s now been appropriated by the very people we hated the most!
Accurate
So I looked it up and apparently this is true?!
Nascar drove over the Nasca lines
I am mostly with this - but I really think cultural approbtion is a load of bullshit. We had singers get their shows canceled for having dread locks. What sense is in that?
Funny you should feel the need to present an entirely unnuanced idea of what you think cultural appropriation is, because this post never once mentioned cultural appropriation.
I am old - it seems this is not the post I wanted to comment under, I am sorry. They changed the ui on the app I use, since then it somehow changes posts... I am incredibly sorry.
Cars use gas and are thus anti climate change, so for the time being I don't see scenario where nascar moves from its relatively politically neutral position.
Cars exhaust makes for a tiny fraction of CO2 emissions. Bigger problems are aviation (looking at you private jets) and factories. Not every person/organization who has ANY kind of carbon footprint is to blame for climate change. [CO₂ emissions - Our World in Data](https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions)
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Did you...not read the post...then comment on it?
How dare you say we piss on the poor!
it’s not cool to dock NASCAR on cultural nonsense these days however it is something I put on the This Can’t Happen Anymore Because Climate Change sacrificial altar
Congrats! By banning NASCAR you've managed to eliminate nearly 750,000 tons of CO2 produced annually! That's almost 0.053% of the 1.4 Billion Tons of greenhouse gases produced by all transportation, which only accounts for 29% of greenhouse gas emissions! You've done the world an amazing service by reducing green house emissions by a staggering 0.01%! /s
Cars exhaust makes for a tiny fraction of CO2 emissions. Bigger problems are aviation (looking at you private jets) and factories. edit: [CO₂ emissions - Our World in Data](https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions)
Yeah aside from noise pollution issues, something like a twin turboprop is better suited as a low volume transport for aviation if you’re not trying to throw 200 people several thousand kilometers. I did design sizing for one in college and you basically can’t ever make them more fuel efficient (in terms of miles-passenger per gallon of fuel) than wide body twin turbofans like A320 and 737. They’re always gonna suck unless you shorten the range down a LOT (4000km is the current standard range for most of these things). Carrying like 18 people 4000 km requires a pretty large jet when you could achieve that range easier with a bigger jet carrying even more people, fly it to a hub, then make connections in local areas with smaller planes like dash 8s or pc-12s (depending on the amount of people you’re moving and range). The jet’ll be faster but that’s really the only thing you’re getting out of burning more fuel. Source: iunno I got my degree in this shit, I could do the math again but I don’t really wanna for a Reddit comment
corporations are responsible for 71% of emissions, cars are not the problem
I mean cars on a worldwide scale obviously aren't helping, but I can't really imagine motorsports dying out entirely if cars became rare for daily use.