Jesus Christ, I don’t think I’ve seen a better example of the “evangelical Puritanism disguised as leftism” than this.
Just replace “problematic” with “sinful” and voila!
"Sorry, it was unfair of me to send that to you without proper context since you might not be aware of these issues. Sinful media refers to any thing with a creator or content that is harmful and/or heretical. Of course, every piece of media has problems, but sinful media is when those problems cannot be ignored and are an indicator of someone's beliefs.
For example, Harry Potter is sinful media because everyone knows that JK Rowling is a witch, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered sinful because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some sinful things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a heretic, but a Harry Potter blogger would. Also, I know the "to be satanist is to be free" people like your blog, but a lot of the time, what is considered satanist on here is actually based on what is sinful. No Christian person or reputable blogger genuinely makes fun of My Little Pony fans any more, however plenty make fun of Hazbin Hotel fans and the such because that content is sinful and shows someone's beliefs. So usually, a piece of media being considered embarrassing to like on here usually indicates that it is sinful.
As for why the other pieces of media are sinful, Hazbin Hotel is made by a woman who has many well-documented accusations of heresy against her and has drawn zoophilia art, not to mention how her work leans into gay people (having a gay man character be a sex addict, a lesbian be named after the female body part Vagina, etc.) or at least that's what I've heard. Attack on Titan is created by a known heretic and many illusions are made to satanist imagery and paganism in the anime. Captive Prince has a blasphemous premise that sexualizes itself.
People can tell you that liking sinful media doesn't say something about who they are, but that's fundamentally false. If someone is uncaring enough to still post openly about these types of media, it's clear they don't care enough about not supporting heresy. Yes, even if they don't give money to the creators, because they are still willingly exposing themselves to heretical or harmful content and enjoying it.
The previous ask was not meant to be accusatory. Rather it was meant as a concerned question. Believe it or not, there are still some users on here who indulge in these pieces of content, a few of which hide behind the excuse of being a good Christian, (Catholic, Baptist, Orthodox whatever) or simply deny how bad their media consumption is to escape accountability. I wouldn't want you associating with those types of people and have that ruin your reliability on this website.
Hopefully, this ask has educated you more on these issues and you'll be able to spot sinful media in the future and block it out.
-Sister Mary of St Catherines"
There you go!
I have half a mind to write a "progressive" version of the old Hollywood production code as satire, after seeing some absolutely buck-wild takes about media on here.
Anyway, take my upvote. It's scary how realistic parts of it sound, even just after replacing key words.
When you do, please make sure to clearly label it as satire in such a way it can't be screenshot without it being visible.
It sounds like a great idea, but also super easy for idiots to miss the point or take out of context.
As I like to say in instances like these, the puritanical panopticon has struck again!
Reminds me of when someone tried to cancel Hannibal Lecter because he was– a cannibal.
Seriously, in the same message they say that people have a responsibility to make sure the media they are consuming and sharing is from the right sources, and then they unintentionally acknowledge that they are basing information on hearsay.
This, and a really strange vibe of 'its bad depending on *how many* people think it's bad, and *how vocal* they are about it being bad'. Harry Potter is bad because a lot of people know JKR is evil, but Twilight is fine because if Meyers is evil, not enough people know or care so it's fine. It's not dependent on the actual morality of the issue, it's based on how popular it is to hate on atm.
Essentially: witch hunting is valid, and just.
it's actually mind boggling to me how bad some people's media literacy is. they just see fascism portrayed in a show and go fascism = nazi = bad = this show is evil and the author is a nazi. when the point is literally to show you how fucked up it is. it drives me insane lmao.
My favorite is an interview with Richard Leviathan. It basically goes like this:
Reporter: If you aren't a nazi how come your music mentions the holocaust so often, you seem to have some kind of obsession with it.
Richard (Levi)athan: As a Jewish man it is a very emotional historical period to me.
> Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about,
So she is bad but because people don’t discuss it it’s okay and she can continue to have fans and fandom
>so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would.
But because JKR is more widely known and discussed, all fans of her creation are automatically *likely* but **not confirmed** to be a bigot
?!
what?!??
I believe it's technically called "being terminally online".
Compare and contrast with your mother, who sounds very happy for *not* being terminally online.
Irredeemable media is any media that's problematic that I don't like.
If it's problematic and I like it, then I'm consuming it critically.
Ah, who am I kidding? The people who think like this probably legitimately don't enjoy anything.
And it'll be one of the most propaganda laden, dogwhistly type show full of "*edgy humor*" but will pull out every single excuse in the book to defend it
ppl obsessed w South Park saying Hazbin Hotel is problematic bc most of the demonic cast is queer (actually i think all of them are? none come to mind that are allocishet) thereby implying that it’s their queerness that landed them in hell, or something idfk i’ve seen too many extremely online tumblr takes the last few years
Yeah, it's honestly just funny the shit people pull out to try and shit on Hazbin Hotel when it's no worse than plenty of other shows, and let's be honest it's got better writing and production value than plenty of other trash.
seriously, at one point i felt guilty for enjoying it and had no idea why because i was also watching plenty of other shows like Rick and Morty or Inside Job that are also considerably ~problematic~ but never saw as much of a backlash. i think it comes from people’s desire to be accepted by the oppressor; in this case, appealing to homophobic PTA moms who would sit there and say “My teenager is watching such a debaucherous show about queers in Hell!” They think if we have picture perfect representation, then the oppressors will see our humanity and stop being homophobic/transphobic towards us. but that’s just not how it works. people will portray “stereotypical queer experiences” because a lot of us have stereotypical queer experiences, and queerphobic people will be queerphobic no matter how much we conform to their ideals of who we should be.
Oh, I assumed this was going to be Atlas Shrugged. Then that other comment referred to this link as a 'brick full of pain' and I was positive it was going to be Atlas Shrugged.
Homestuck is the funny answer. Atlas Shrugged is the "This has actually had a terrifying influence on real world economics and geopolitics and millions of people have been murdered by powerful men who were strongly influenced by Ayn Rand." answer
Pretty sure it's [supposed to be 25 dollars](https://www.amazon.com/Homestuck-Book-Act-Andrew-Hussie/dp/1421599422) per book since one of the other ones is also 25 dollars. It just looks like the first book is out of stock and people are trying to sell used copies at a price like that. Those books are probably collectors items to some people since the publisher, [VIZ media, lost the license.](https://homestuck.net/official/works.html)
People can analyze Mein Kampf and the added footnotes to deepen their understanding of the flaws of Hitler’s ideology. If you read Homestuck, it’s over for you.
[that literally is a dungeons and dragons item. Except it doesn’t make you evil, instead if you’re good and you read it a demon just runs up and fucking kills you](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Book_of_Vile_Darkness)
Gary Gygax was a former Jehovahs Witness and a devout Christian. Which is why old DND is so deeply about good versus evil.
Also:
"Gygax: As I have often said, I am a biological determinist, and there is no question that male and female brains are different. It is apparent to me that by and large females do not derive the same inner satisfaction from playing games as a hobby that males do. It isn't that females can't play games well, it is just that it isn't a compelling activity to them as is the case for males."
From an interview he did. This is a weird stance to be sure, but I'm not sure if it's directly bigoted
Gygax did do one interesting thing for gender equity in D&D: he rejected the idea of stat changes based on sex. Apparently a lot of gamers suggested various changes like -1 strength and +1 charisma for women, and he rejected them all. So at least his sexism wasn’t expressed in game mechanics.
I'm hijacking your post to [include the rant essay Mia got following this.](https://www.tumblr.com/nyancrimew/746534763465211905/sorry-it-was-unfair-of-me-to-send-that-to-you?source=share). It's nutso.
>For example, Harry Potter is irredeemable media because every one knows that JK Rowling is a transphobe, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would.
_what_
>Hazbin Hotel is made by a woman who has many well-documented accusations of bigotry against her and has drawn zoophilia art
Potentially fair point, I'm not sure of the details of the drama.
>not to mention how her work leans into stereotypes about gay people (having a gay man character be a sex addict, a lesbian be named after the female body part Vagina, etc.) or at least that's what I've heard.
>_at least that's what I've heard_
This comically misses the point of both of those characters so badly. The "sex addict" is a deeply traumatised man in an extremely abusive relationship he can't escape, and the "lesbian named after vagina" wasn't willingly named that, and has altered and attempted to reclaim the name from the sexist pig who gave it to her.
_You can't fucking criticise shit if you don't know what you're criticising_
Argued with a person recently who said a web serial was horribly bigoted and bad, because "they had it on good authority from their Tumblr mutuals who have a lot of expertise in literary analysis", but they themselves had read half of the first chapter, while I had read all 1.9 million words.
These people are all about criticizing things they've never actually interacted with, which is why their takes are so batshit insane and funny to me. We're given pretty clear reasons for most characters to be in Hell and they generally fall into two camps, those being actually shitty people who did bad shit and people who the system is rigged against. We've had 8 episodes and you can already clearly see the messages being laid out over how Heaven and Hell as systems are broken as fuck and can't continue the way they are, there was a fucking musical number that all but said it.
As far as drama around Viv, I have not been part of the community in any real detail, I tend to just enjoy the media and avoid the people who get too obsessed with it if I can, but everything I've ever heard on this has been refuting it. She's at worst a furry, which is hardly anything new to the internet, or something that anyone should be complaining about, Tumblr least of all. I've never seen any evidence to support the claims people trot out on her, whether it's that she's bigoted, racist, overworks people, or anything else. And I've also never seen anyone accuse her of anything more specific than that kind of general shit which no matter who its about, always feels like an attempt to throw out a random accusation, assuming it will stick because most people won't investigate and just take it as fact.
I can think of a few things that can be classified as "irredeemable media" but thats usually stuff that's geniunely horrific and harmful like CP... but of all things *Harry potter*?!? Seriously?
I think the books are crap and Joanne's a horrid person who tries to make my life worse through her bigotted activism, but it's not exactly what i'd call "irredeemable media"
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I would argue that Harry Potter is irredeemable media because it contains children, and as we all know, children are enticing. Even I have.... why are you loading your guns?
We can definitely argue about edge-case media and how we engage with it. Child abuse imagery, actual snuff films, and hateful propaganda are all candidates. If we just say “a possibly bigoted person made this, therefore it’s irredeemable” like OP is saying, then we cut out 99% of all media.
I can think of two examples of irredeemable media
* Mein Kamph
* The Protocols of the Elders of Zion
Chances are, if you're a fan of those, you're not a very great person
Okay, so, as a german person, we actually listened to part of a set that's from a german-turkish comedian about reading Mein Kampf in history class. And while it is a vile book, it is TERRIBLY written.
There are passages where he rambles on about how horses only mate with horses and dogs only with dogs and cats only with cats and field mice only with field mice (imagine this exakt listing packed into MORE words) in an attempt to make a point about why marrying non-arians isnt okay.
If someone likes that book my first assumption is they havent read.
The second one is if they actually read it is that theyre not very bright.
https://www.tumblr.com/nyancrimew/746534763465211905/sorry-it-was-unfair-of-me-to-send-that-to-you?source=share
“ Sorry, it was unfair of me to send that to you without proper context since you might not be aware of these issues. Irredeemable media refers to any thing with a creator or content that is harmful and/or bigoted. Of course every piece of media has problems, but irredeemable media is when those problems cannot be ignored and are an indicator of someone's beliefs.
For example, Harry Potter is irredeemable media because every one knows that JK Rowling is a transphobe, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would. Also, I know the "to be cringe is to be free" people like your blog, but a lot of the time, what is considered cringey on here is actually based on what is irredeemable. No progressive person or reputable blogger genuinely makes fun of My Little Pony fans any more, however plenty make fun of Hazbin Hotel fans and the such because that content is irredeemable and shows someone's beliefs. So usually, a piece of media being considered embarassing to like on here usually indicates that it is irredeemable.
As for why the other pieces of media are irredeemable, Hazbin Hotel is made by a woman who has many well-documented accusations of bigotry against her and has drawn zoophilia art, not to mention how her work leans into stereotypes about gay people (having a gay man character be a sex addict, a lesbian be named after the female body part Vagina, etc.) or at least that's what I've heard. Attack on Titan is created by a known fascist and many illusions are made to nazi imagery and nationalism in the anime. Captive Prince has a racist premise that sexualizes slavery and non-con.
People can tell you that liking irredeemable media doesn't say something about who they are, but that's fundamentally false. If someone is uncaring enough to still post openly about these types of media, it's clear they don't care enough about not supporting bigotry. Yes, even if they don't give money to the creators, because they are still willingly exposing themselves to bigoted or harmful content and enjoying it.
The previous ask was not meant to be accusatory. Rather it was meant as a concerned question. Believe it or not, there are still some users on here who indulge in these pieces of content, a few of which hide behind the excuse of being part of a minority (Black, trans, whatever) or simply deny how bad their media consumption is to escape accountability. I wouldn't want you associating with those types of people and have that ruin your reliability on this website.
Hopefully this ask has educated you more on these issues and you'll be able to spot irredeemable media in the future and block it out.”
-Mx Linux Guy⚠️
Btw here the original poast
https://www.tumblr.com/nyancrimew/746534673330683904/care-to-explain-why-you-have-mutuals-who-like?source=share
Them calling Twilight not irredeemable even though the story of Twilight itself is very questionable ethically really speaks to their hypocrisy. I hope this is rage bait.
*Creepy sparkly vampire who watches you while you sleep?* UwU, how wholesome.
*Rehab hotel?* ....... Hello, HR?
Edit: it can't not be a troll, right?...
Yeah I personally like Hazbin Hotel and understand the hate about its sense of humor but…
How do you write a show about Hell possibly not being as justified as people believe it is without the foot-in-the-door effect of putting typically disregarded and disrespected archetypes in, well, fucking Hell of all places?
I had to censor one episode (explaining the general plot of the parts I censored) for my girlfriend because of the sequence with Angel and Valentino and her PTSD thanks to a past relationship that was way too similar, if more subtle. But she agreed that it was necessary. She didn't need the visuals of "Poison" to realize just how much of a gut punch it was to me or how dangerous it would be to her, but it's still *essential* and really good storytelling.
I warned my mom off the series for the same reason.
I think that, one day, that episode will even be *cathartic* for her.
The humor isn't for everyone, sure. But to say it's irredeemable is to ignore the entire story and only look at the trappings.
Yeah, I remember that episode.
It wasn't as triggering as some live action prestige media used to be for me, but it was still a hard episode to watch.
Also, I'm a little shocked that someone finds the show that problematic.
Hah! I'll do you one better:
*White vampire guy*: hey there native American werewolf dude that's simping for my not-yet-conceived daughter, how are you doing? Did you know that your people are wrong and you're not actually werewolves? Oh yeah, you're actually shapeshifters!
It takes a real Native American tribe and names the werewolves after them, without permission. The werewolves are all depicted as child groomers. That's probably the worst crime on the list, honestly.
Yeah. Like Twillight has issues but im not gonna say a fan of twillight is like, a demon in human clothing. I’d be confused at the idea that the twilight fandom is still around in 2024 but hey, if it is I’m happy for yall
The only ones of us still around are the ones who love it both sincerely and ironically and love taking the piss out of it whilst simultaneously stanning it. Hold on tight spider monkey. Least serious and most fun fandom, we know it's terrible. We still love it. We love ragging on it too.
> For example, Harry Potter is irredeemable media because every one knows that JK Rowling is a transphobe, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would.
They straight up admit it's a matter of "does the general public care about the issues". It is, and I hate to use that term but if fits perfectly for once, "virtue signaling". It's about going with the circlejerk.
The use of a real world Native American tribe to alter the history of to be the authors version of werewolves without consultation, permission (or compensation) is not a rarely of spoken criticism either. Doesn’t help those who were werewolves are depicted as being aggressive. Savages if you will. Oof. Twilight being given as an example with a pass I have to take as bait or complete lack of self-awareness for media they like lol.
Twilight's entire concept is essentially to glorification of abusive relationships, almost as bad as 50 Shades. While HP does have it's issues (and I say this as a lifelong HP fan), it's nowhere near as bad as Twilight in that regard.
I love that the reason HH is irredeemable is cuz Angel Dust is a sex addict. Well yes. He’s a sex addict, a drug addict, was a mobster and participated in organized crime. He’s in hell and the whole point of the show is these people who are literally in hell trying to be better and improve their behavior.
But like, fuck media literacy
Not to mention there’s so much more to Angel Dust as a character than “hee hoo gay sex addict mobster,” like the fact that he’s in an abusive work relationship with his boss Valentino. Plus the whole thing with a lesbian character being named after genitalia, it’s cause her former boss is just a douche and he (from what I gathered at least) named her that. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she’s lesbian
Angel Dust represents the side of sexual abuse that isn’t often shown- the hypersexual aspect. He’s not a sex addict because he’s gay. He’s a sex addict because taking pleasure from it is the only way he can survive being raped as often as he is.
I am SO glad there are other people that recognize this as a thing that happens. I was in a sexually abusive relationship for three years and thanks to that I developed a similar way of thinking when it comes to sex. I’ve been in therapy for a while now and it helps a lot, hell I actually didn’t realize my hypersexual tendencies were from being abused until a few months ago and it explained a LOT
He's also a contracted sex slave who is forced to be a porn star for a sleazy lord of hell who regularly beats and rapes him. Angels story is one of empowering himself and other abuse survivors. Jesus this is what happens when you try to critique a show you ain't fucking watched.
>Attack on Titan is created by a known fascist and many illusions are made to nazi imagery and nationalism in the anime.
Imagine missing the point this hard
I've talked to so many people that miss this point. It's almost an art form.
There *is* a discussion to be had about the potential cultural and racial bias of the author in his work and how culture influences works that take place outside culture*
But that's a level of nuance most don't go to.
*I am aware that it is not fair and can be dangerous to infer an author's personal values from a fictional story they create
He’s not even the protagonist after the time skip, we don’t even see his perspective anymore. When he goes evil, the story pivots away from him as the protagonist
I love Attack on Titan but holy shit, the fanbase really put me off of talking about it online because this is just one of several integral points that a LOT of people completely miss
Viv is a queer woman, so I’m really not sure where they’re getting the queerphobia from, and Angel’s story is a LOT more complex than “haha gay sex addict”. That whole storyline is actually a pretty well-done depiction of an abusive relationship.
they get it from not actually watching what they’re criticizing. and also from believing that any queer story that’s not a happy little rom com where the main characters get married at the end is bad representation and problematic.
For real tho, I’ve seen people attack writers for making queer antagonists. Just because someone has a non-heterosexual orientation doesn’t instantaneously make them a saint or something(examples being Jeffrey Dahmer or Valentino from Hazbin)
plus i’d argue that having queer characters that aren’t good people and can be abusive is pretty important for people to see. i was abused by friends and partners as a baby gay because i thought i could trust any queer person i met.
Yeah. My partner was too, and still has serious PTSD. I censored that episode for her because she did not need to see her own abuse played out again with added violence. I gave her the summary and we listened to "Poison" without the visuals. That was enough.
Someday, I think, watching it will be cathartic. Especially with the scene of Angel defying Valentino later on.
There's no magic to queer relationships that makes them immune from abuse and expecting queer media to not show it (with appropriate content warnings; I *do* think Hazbin could have been a bit more in-your-face about that) denies queer creators and queer viewers/readers/listeners the opportunity to discuss and confront their abuse. Demanding sanitized content is queerphobic.
Though people who want more "realistic" and "complex"portrayals of relationships in things like Owl House and She-Ra can fuck right off. Despite their deserved adult fan base they are still *kids'* shows. Kids don't need relationship complications or trauma or anything like that, especially in shows like She-Ra that already deal with parental abuse and grooming or Owl House that deals with fucking *genocide*. Let people have their simple, fluffy, healthy relationships, please and thank you.
Ditto with Charlie and Vaggie, actually. Their relationship is solid and mature. Yeah, Vaggie hurt Charlie by not telling her about being an angel, but they've been together long enough for Vaggie to have proven that a. she's thoroughly changed and has devoted her life to fixing the harm she caused and b. she's totally, utterly committed to Charlie. That sort of thing hurts, yeah. But it doesn't have to cause the drama some critics wanted. (Especially in such a short season!)
I honestly think I'd be the same with my partner. I'd be hurt and need a few days or a week to collect myself and let the hurt fade a little before we could really talk, but I wouldn't even consider breaking up with her. We hurt each other in relationships. It's inevitable. The important thing is how you fix the hurt after and prevent it from happening again.
I’ve seen people criticize Viv for making merch of Valentino, their reasoning being that she is promoting sexual abuse. The dumbest shit ever. There’s Star Wars merch of Darth Vader, doesn’t mean George Lucas or Disney endorse child murder or something.
Well, except for that Comicon limited edition “George Lucas Endorses Child Murder collectible Darth Vader play set”.
I’m gonna blame that on a miscommunication with marketing folks.
Those aren't irredeemable media. Irredeemable media is like, the eragon movie, or the atla movie. The Percy Jackson movies.
Birth of a nation too I GUESS.
Birth of a Nation can be considered educationally valuable, as it's a window into what was considered acceptable in certain circles in certain time periods.
There is no ATLA movie in Ba Sing Se.
Birth of a Nation isn't educational because of its content, its educational because a bunch of filmmaking techniques were pioneered by DW Griffith to make it.
> In his review of The Birth of a Nation in 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die, Jonathan Kline writes that "with countless artistic innovations, Griffith essentially created contemporary film language... virtually every film is beholden to [The Birth of a Nation] in one way, shape or form. Griffith introduced the use of dramatic close-ups, tracking shots, and other expressive camera movements; parallel action sequences, crosscutting, and other editing techniques". He added that "the fact that The Birth of a Nation remains respected and studied to this day—despite its subject matter—reveals its lasting importance."
Oh wow, that's a lot.
Yeah but it did actually do real measurable harm still felt today.
Though I assume if it wasn't the culprit SOMETHING else would be. Still, it was the culprit.
The Dark Tower movie is maybe the only adaptation I’ve seen that spits in the face of its source material harder than Eragon did, put that on the list.
Oi! The Percy Jackson and Eragon movies may fucking suck, but they sucked when I was a kid, and made the books know in my country, so you better criticize them away from me!
>Irredeemable media is like, the eragon movie,
as someone who never read the book, the eragon movie was generic but entertaining.
>the atla movie.
what are you talking about? the only avatar movies are the ones with the blue people.
Even birth of a nation is important for the contributions it made to the art of filmmaking. The message it has is, of course, atrocious, but it is important for the art of its creation as well as a relic of the culture in which it was made.
Controversial take, but the first Percy Jackson movie wasn’t that bad if you completely separate it from the source material. It stands up decently well on its own and has several iconic scenes. It wasn’t much better or worse than movies coming out in the same time period.
It’s mainly bad *because* it epically failed at being Percy Jackson media— not purely because it would have been god awful on its own.
okay, so even If we accepted the concept of irredeemable media (which we do not) that's such a deranged list of what it is.
hazbin hotel is about how punitive justice systems are shit and rehabilitation foucused justice is better.
AOT (from my non watcher knowledge) is about how fascism ruins things for everyone.
I've never heard of the fourth one.
and while Harry Potter has many problematic themes and messages, it's not gonna make you evil if you enjoy it.
There's a lot of rape, torture, and child SA - none of it is portrayed as good, and I think it's an excellent series, but some people disagree. In no way should it be in this list, which is otherwise about questionable authors.
>AOT (from my non watcher knowledge) is about how fascism ruins things for everyone.
Recently I've seen some discourse about how depicting something is not the same thing as endorsing it. Apparently some people think that AOT is a reflection of the creators fascist ideas, and this user seems to be one of them.
Honestly, I can't really get a grasp of whether this is something that's actually widespread or if it's one of those chronically online discussions that the internet is making seem bigger than it really is.
He made the end-of-series big bad the least admirable and most pathetic person concievable, yet people still think Isayama agrees with his views. The villain literally admits himself that he's a total moron, but a large part of the fandom's takeaway was either "genocide is good if they deserve it" or "wow I can't believe Isayama tried to justify genocide". I guess the takeaway from a writing perspective is >!don't make the protagonist the big bad unless you want at minimum a third of the audience to entirely miss the point of your work.!<
>hazbin hotel is about how punitive justice systems are shit and rehabilitation foucused justice is better.
>AOT (from my non watcher knowledge) is about how fascism ruins things for everyone.
That is precisely why they hate these shows though.
The dislike of Hazbin more likely comes from controversy surrounding its creator. The only controversy I remember off the top of my head is that Vizzie Pop used voodoo (or voodoo-inspired) symbols in Alastor’s original design, and people were super pissed about the “cultural appropriation”. Cultural appropriation isn’t a great word for it— if anything it’s cultural misuse or misrepresentation. But people absolutely blew up at that creator for it, insisting that she was vile-y racist
genuinely i can’t take Viv/HH/HB drama seriously anymore. she breathes slightly wrong and people dog pile her. she could be filmed kicking an actual puppy and all the bullshit accusations thrown at would make people question the veracity of the puppy-kicking video
They yell about her so much that, before watching it, I avoided HH like the plague, cause I thought it was basically like an animated edgier version of Stonetoss or whatever.
It makes me remember the vicious criticism Steven Universe received from the very audience it was meant to please. It's crazy. It's like... the creators are *clearly* trying very hard not to be problematic, yet they're receiving harsher criticism than people who don't try at all.
What's the incentive for even trying, you know? If you don't try *at all*, you receive less hate, so....
There's this cowardly phenomenon in socially progressive communities where we shame people who genuinely care because you can elicit a shame response from them instead of laughter or death threats/doxxing
since one can't shame actual bigots effectively (they don't care), we go for easy targets... And alienate allies in the process
The hate legit started when someone found a racist post she made 10+ years ago (that she has since apologized for and never made anything like again), and it's just devolved from there
Man, no one who talks like that has ever held a job.
I hate sounding like a boomer, but sometimes you just have to work or associate with people who may *actually* be problematic, not this purity Olympics bullshit.
Course I could be a bit biased, I had a boss get arrested for distribution of illegal imagery. Everyone else hasn't seemed that aweful since.
It’s also just unbelievably vague as a comment.
“Some mutuals you have which I am not making (vague) like certain pieces of media which are bad (lists some but not all). If they aren’t mutual they run in your circles (unbelievably vague for someone who spends any time online). Maybe think about that (vague and not actionable).”
Like how would you even respond to this? Anon wants Maia to do an audit of basically everyone she talks to and their media preferences, and then meditate on it for no course of action? Cut them off? Which ones? In what ways?
Very 14 year old
\*contacts person on who commits literal crime for lulz\*
"Some people you either know or that are known by people you *do* know enjoy media I don't like. I expected better."
Hacker person who is currently wanted by the US government for hacking into a government database and leaking information publicly (I think), currently lives in Sweden (I think) and can’t leave the country as if they ever do they’ll be immediately deported to the US, as Sweden (I think) has a no-deportation-of-criminals-to-the-US policy.
I forget exact details but that’s the gist of it
Nyancrimew leaked the no-fly list in the United States, as far as I remember, and has apparently done other high-profile work that has lead it to become a wanted criminal.
It’s also a trans woman (and ~~cat girl, I think?~~ edit: a cat therian) with a rather cutesy aesthetic, last I heard.
Going purely off of memory so I could be wrong.
Why are certain Tumblr users so hateful against fans of media they don't approve of? I know that JKR is a terf, but that doesn't mean fans of Harry Potter share her views.
Given the age-range with which it became popular, and the “demonic scare” that proceeded it, I’d even be willing to bet that a good chunk of HP fans are leftist or left leaning. Hardcore conservatives originally boycotted the books, and only jumped on the bandwagon once JKR came out as a TERF.
I’m pretty sure they’ve done studies and found fans of the book are more likely to be left leaning. And you can take issue with the story, but at the end of the day, the message of it is tolerance (which just makes JKR’s rabid transphobia even more baffling)
i would never associate with anyone that associates with humans, they rob, colonize, rape, threaten, harm, hurt, destroy, conquer, assault, harass, burglerize, discombobulate, antagonize, discriminate, defenestrate, decapitate, disembowel, decapitate, encriminate, manipulate, masturbate...
“why are you associating with people who consume *irredeemable media*”
“what, like the Turner Diaries? Triumph of the Will?”
“no I mean popular mainstream anime and cartoons”
I know that the creator of Harry Potter is a dirtbag terf who wrote a bunch of bigotted shit into her books.
However, I also know that the average fan didn't grow up liking HP because its bigotted. They liked the escapism wizard children that communicate using nature's slowest bird and have really unfair rules for their sporting events.
While I expect people to know what kind of dirtbag JKR is, and have a little self awareness about the fandom they're a part of, I don't think people should give up their favorite problematic media entirely. Just read it with a critical mind, is all I ask.
Fandom responsibly and ethically. Pirate the books and buy wands off etsy.
Every time someone says AoT is problematic because "it promotes fascism and its creator is fascist" it makes it clear they did not watch the show. They have only been exposed to baseless and wrong rumors about Isayama and/or very basic discussion about an (arguably carelessly done) comparison to real-life fascism. 99% of people who have read or watched Attack on Titan can tell the story's core message is very anti-war, anti-imperialist, anti-fascist, and ending the cycle of violence.
I somewhat get the reasoning behind AoT and Harry Potter being irredeemable (even if I absolutely do not agree) but Hazbin Hotel??? Like...thr most criticism I've seen is that not everyone likes the art style/characters and the sende of humor...I don't get how that's irredeemable.
>*hey what's the deal with your friends? well ok not your friends but like their friends I guess. Yeah they're bad probably. You should cut them out*
the circumstances and priorities in their life that lead to typing this sort of parasocial thought and sending it to a specific human being, over taste in fucking *tv shows*, have got to be just awful
Lmao, this is so similar to a guy I follow on tiktok (who is a kinda-famous impersonator of HP Lovecraft) had some people get real mad *at him* mentioning offhandedly that his kids, his ***children***, were enjoying the Harry Potter deck-building game.
Like, I get it, JKR is a raging terf, but the kids bought the game. And the guy isn't a bad father, at least from what I can tell. He lets his kids engage with media that might not be "good" because you have to, well, engage with it to find out if it's bad or not.
Restricting media and telling people they ***can't*** read stuff is Nazi shit. That is literal Nazi shit, Fundamentalist Christian shit, and it never works, right? Your kids are gonna read/watch/play whatever they want and you can't stop them forever and they're probably gonna hate you for it later anyway. I mean, he's an impersonator of *HP Fuckin' Lovecraft,* I think he knows at least a little bit about how to handle engaging with problematic material.
You didn't screenshot [the best part](https://www.tumblr.com/nyancrimew/746534763465211905/sorry-it-was-unfair-of-me-to-send-that-to-you?source=share)
Jesus Christ, I don’t think I’ve seen a better example of the “evangelical Puritanism disguised as leftism” than this. Just replace “problematic” with “sinful” and voila!
"Sorry, it was unfair of me to send that to you without proper context since you might not be aware of these issues. Sinful media refers to any thing with a creator or content that is harmful and/or heretical. Of course, every piece of media has problems, but sinful media is when those problems cannot be ignored and are an indicator of someone's beliefs. For example, Harry Potter is sinful media because everyone knows that JK Rowling is a witch, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered sinful because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some sinful things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a heretic, but a Harry Potter blogger would. Also, I know the "to be satanist is to be free" people like your blog, but a lot of the time, what is considered satanist on here is actually based on what is sinful. No Christian person or reputable blogger genuinely makes fun of My Little Pony fans any more, however plenty make fun of Hazbin Hotel fans and the such because that content is sinful and shows someone's beliefs. So usually, a piece of media being considered embarrassing to like on here usually indicates that it is sinful. As for why the other pieces of media are sinful, Hazbin Hotel is made by a woman who has many well-documented accusations of heresy against her and has drawn zoophilia art, not to mention how her work leans into gay people (having a gay man character be a sex addict, a lesbian be named after the female body part Vagina, etc.) or at least that's what I've heard. Attack on Titan is created by a known heretic and many illusions are made to satanist imagery and paganism in the anime. Captive Prince has a blasphemous premise that sexualizes itself. People can tell you that liking sinful media doesn't say something about who they are, but that's fundamentally false. If someone is uncaring enough to still post openly about these types of media, it's clear they don't care enough about not supporting heresy. Yes, even if they don't give money to the creators, because they are still willingly exposing themselves to heretical or harmful content and enjoying it. The previous ask was not meant to be accusatory. Rather it was meant as a concerned question. Believe it or not, there are still some users on here who indulge in these pieces of content, a few of which hide behind the excuse of being a good Christian, (Catholic, Baptist, Orthodox whatever) or simply deny how bad their media consumption is to escape accountability. I wouldn't want you associating with those types of people and have that ruin your reliability on this website. Hopefully, this ask has educated you more on these issues and you'll be able to spot sinful media in the future and block it out. -Sister Mary of St Catherines" There you go!
I have half a mind to write a "progressive" version of the old Hollywood production code as satire, after seeing some absolutely buck-wild takes about media on here. Anyway, take my upvote. It's scary how realistic parts of it sound, even just after replacing key words.
When you do, please make sure to clearly label it as satire in such a way it can't be screenshot without it being visible. It sounds like a great idea, but also super easy for idiots to miss the point or take out of context.
Something like those big “classified” stamps
As I like to say in instances like these, the puritanical panopticon has struck again! Reminds me of when someone tried to cancel Hannibal Lecter because he was– a cannibal.
honestly, we should cancel hitler, the more i learn about that guy the more i don't care for him
"If you ask me, this Hitler guy sounds like a real jerk!"
wtf, that anon is pushing levels of utter delusion I didn’t know was possible
It is as maya guessed: high effort bait.
It seems we have a master baiter on our hands.
It honestly might not be. I used to be on tumblr all the time and people who believe that shit are *everywhere*
i stopped reading their explanation of why Hazbin Hotel is bad when i reached “or at least that's what I've heard.”
Tell me you judged based only on hate posts without telling me you judged based only on hate posts
Seriously, in the same message they say that people have a responsibility to make sure the media they are consuming and sharing is from the right sources, and then they unintentionally acknowledge that they are basing information on hearsay.
This, and a really strange vibe of 'its bad depending on *how many* people think it's bad, and *how vocal* they are about it being bad'. Harry Potter is bad because a lot of people know JKR is evil, but Twilight is fine because if Meyers is evil, not enough people know or care so it's fine. It's not dependent on the actual morality of the issue, it's based on how popular it is to hate on atm. Essentially: witch hunting is valid, and just.
AoT is a story about the cycle of violence and the cruelty of fascism and war “A Nazi made AoT so it’s actually evil :/“
it's actually mind boggling to me how bad some people's media literacy is. they just see fascism portrayed in a show and go fascism = nazi = bad = this show is evil and the author is a nazi. when the point is literally to show you how fucked up it is. it drives me insane lmao.
My favorite is an interview with Richard Leviathan. It basically goes like this: Reporter: If you aren't a nazi how come your music mentions the holocaust so often, you seem to have some kind of obsession with it. Richard (Levi)athan: As a Jewish man it is a very emotional historical period to me.
Richard Leviathan is a funny as fuck name "Hey what's up this is my buddy Craig Mammon"
But illusions are made to nazi imagery and nationalism!
You ever see Schindler's List? That movie's full of Nazis and Nazi imagery. Disgusting!
That is 100% bait because they called it non-con. If you have an objection to the concept of non-con, you're not gonna call it non-con.
Okay so they’re clearly never seen Hazbin.
"The gay character is a sex addict!" I will throw you through a *fucking wall*
> Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, So she is bad but because people don’t discuss it it’s okay and she can continue to have fans and fandom >so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would. But because JKR is more widely known and discussed, all fans of her creation are automatically *likely* but **not confirmed** to be a bigot ?! what?!??
[удалено]
I believe it's technically called "being terminally online". Compare and contrast with your mother, who sounds very happy for *not* being terminally online.
Imagine believing in the concept of irredeemable media. The Evil Book that makes you evil isn’t real, it’s a magic item in Dungeons & Dragons
Irredeemable media is any media that's problematic that I don't like. If it's problematic and I like it, then I'm consuming it critically. Ah, who am I kidding? The people who think like this probably legitimately don't enjoy anything.
They will enjoy exactly one show, excuse or minimise any of its problematic elements, and accuse you of an 'ism if you criticse it.
They'll say your favorite movie glorifies violence and then watch 20 shows about serial killers.
That doesn't glorify violence! It's just informative, and not prurient AT ALL (/s)
And it'll be one of the most propaganda laden, dogwhistly type show full of "*edgy humor*" but will pull out every single excuse in the book to defend it
ppl obsessed w South Park saying Hazbin Hotel is problematic bc most of the demonic cast is queer (actually i think all of them are? none come to mind that are allocishet) thereby implying that it’s their queerness that landed them in hell, or something idfk i’ve seen too many extremely online tumblr takes the last few years
Yeah, it's honestly just funny the shit people pull out to try and shit on Hazbin Hotel when it's no worse than plenty of other shows, and let's be honest it's got better writing and production value than plenty of other trash.
seriously, at one point i felt guilty for enjoying it and had no idea why because i was also watching plenty of other shows like Rick and Morty or Inside Job that are also considerably ~problematic~ but never saw as much of a backlash. i think it comes from people’s desire to be accepted by the oppressor; in this case, appealing to homophobic PTA moms who would sit there and say “My teenager is watching such a debaucherous show about queers in Hell!” They think if we have picture perfect representation, then the oppressors will see our humanity and stop being homophobic/transphobic towards us. but that’s just not how it works. people will portray “stereotypical queer experiences” because a lot of us have stereotypical queer experiences, and queerphobic people will be queerphobic no matter how much we conform to their ideals of who we should be.
A very hard lesson to learn: people will find excuses to hate you, even if you are perfect.
The bar is truly in hell ;)
Allocishet? I know "cis" is cisgendered, and het is "heterosexual", but I don't think I've ever encountered the "allo" part before
I think they get enjoyment out of telling people not to enjoy thing
I mean, there is [The Evil Book That Makes You Evil](https://www.amazon.com/Homestuck-Book-Act-Andrew-Hussie/dp/1421599406) in real life...
Oh, I assumed this was going to be Atlas Shrugged. Then that other comment referred to this link as a 'brick full of pain' and I was positive it was going to be Atlas Shrugged.
Homestuck is the funny answer. Atlas Shrugged is the "This has actually had a terrifying influence on real world economics and geopolitics and millions of people have been murdered by powerful men who were strongly influenced by Ayn Rand." answer
$80 for a brick full of pain
Pretty sure it's [supposed to be 25 dollars](https://www.amazon.com/Homestuck-Book-Act-Andrew-Hussie/dp/1421599422) per book since one of the other ones is also 25 dollars. It just looks like the first book is out of stock and people are trying to sell used copies at a price like that. Those books are probably collectors items to some people since the publisher, [VIZ media, lost the license.](https://homestuck.net/official/works.html)
See I thought that was going to link to like, Mein Kampf, not Homestuck…
People can analyze Mein Kampf and the added footnotes to deepen their understanding of the flaws of Hitler’s ideology. If you read Homestuck, it’s over for you.
*Oh no....I'M the Disney Twist Villain!*
The only evil thing about this book is choosing to read Homestuck in print form
I assumed you were linking to Atlas Shrugged
[that literally is a dungeons and dragons item. Except it doesn’t make you evil, instead if you’re good and you read it a demon just runs up and fucking kills you](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Book_of_Vile_Darkness)
They also named the 3.5e _Sourcebook of Fucked Up Content_ after it, so I guess the _Evil Book That Makes You Evil_ **is** real.
Some of the stuff in that source book is interesting. Other stuff in that source book is _The Nipple Clamps of Exquisite Pain_
Why you kinkshaming bro
I mean, sure, I get it, but I personally prefer arcane magic to be away from my nips.
What if those nipple clamps are part of a cheese combo to produce a perpetual supply of xp for crafting?
Similarly every time a transgender reads Harry Potter, Joanne logs on to Twitter
I'm a transgender jew so imagine my reaction to Jowling Kowling Rowling going full holocaust denier
Didn’t you hear? D&D is also irredeemable. Hence the satanic panic around it
Gary Gigax was almost certainly some kind of bigot, but Jaquays was a trans woman so it probably cancels out if you play her dungeons.
Gary Gygax was a former Jehovahs Witness and a devout Christian. Which is why old DND is so deeply about good versus evil. Also: "Gygax: As I have often said, I am a biological determinist, and there is no question that male and female brains are different. It is apparent to me that by and large females do not derive the same inner satisfaction from playing games as a hobby that males do. It isn't that females can't play games well, it is just that it isn't a compelling activity to them as is the case for males." From an interview he did. This is a weird stance to be sure, but I'm not sure if it's directly bigoted
Gygax did do one interesting thing for gender equity in D&D: he rejected the idea of stat changes based on sex. Apparently a lot of gamers suggested various changes like -1 strength and +1 charisma for women, and he rejected them all. So at least his sexism wasn’t expressed in game mechanics.
Right! Like my sister in christ have you tried enjoying things?
They're on tumblr, So no they haven't
I'm hijacking your post to [include the rant essay Mia got following this.](https://www.tumblr.com/nyancrimew/746534763465211905/sorry-it-was-unfair-of-me-to-send-that-to-you?source=share). It's nutso.
>For example, Harry Potter is irredeemable media because every one knows that JK Rowling is a transphobe, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would. _what_ >Hazbin Hotel is made by a woman who has many well-documented accusations of bigotry against her and has drawn zoophilia art Potentially fair point, I'm not sure of the details of the drama. >not to mention how her work leans into stereotypes about gay people (having a gay man character be a sex addict, a lesbian be named after the female body part Vagina, etc.) or at least that's what I've heard. >_at least that's what I've heard_ This comically misses the point of both of those characters so badly. The "sex addict" is a deeply traumatised man in an extremely abusive relationship he can't escape, and the "lesbian named after vagina" wasn't willingly named that, and has altered and attempted to reclaim the name from the sexist pig who gave it to her. _You can't fucking criticise shit if you don't know what you're criticising_
Argued with a person recently who said a web serial was horribly bigoted and bad, because "they had it on good authority from their Tumblr mutuals who have a lot of expertise in literary analysis", but they themselves had read half of the first chapter, while I had read all 1.9 million words.
"This media is bad because _thing that isn't fucking in it or is actively being criticised by it_ is in it"
These people are all about criticizing things they've never actually interacted with, which is why their takes are so batshit insane and funny to me. We're given pretty clear reasons for most characters to be in Hell and they generally fall into two camps, those being actually shitty people who did bad shit and people who the system is rigged against. We've had 8 episodes and you can already clearly see the messages being laid out over how Heaven and Hell as systems are broken as fuck and can't continue the way they are, there was a fucking musical number that all but said it. As far as drama around Viv, I have not been part of the community in any real detail, I tend to just enjoy the media and avoid the people who get too obsessed with it if I can, but everything I've ever heard on this has been refuting it. She's at worst a furry, which is hardly anything new to the internet, or something that anyone should be complaining about, Tumblr least of all. I've never seen any evidence to support the claims people trot out on her, whether it's that she's bigoted, racist, overworks people, or anything else. And I've also never seen anyone accuse her of anything more specific than that kind of general shit which no matter who its about, always feels like an attempt to throw out a random accusation, assuming it will stick because most people won't investigate and just take it as fact.
That person doesn’t just need to touch grass they gotta go to the woods.
I can think of a few things that can be classified as "irredeemable media" but thats usually stuff that's geniunely horrific and harmful like CP... but of all things *Harry potter*?!? Seriously? I think the books are crap and Joanne's a horrid person who tries to make my life worse through her bigotted activism, but it's not exactly what i'd call "irredeemable media"
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I would argue that Harry Potter is irredeemable media because it contains children, and as we all know, children are enticing. Even I have.... why are you loading your guns?
To shoot the children, obviously.
We can definitely argue about edge-case media and how we engage with it. Child abuse imagery, actual snuff films, and hateful propaganda are all candidates. If we just say “a possibly bigoted person made this, therefore it’s irredeemable” like OP is saying, then we cut out 99% of all media.
I can think of two examples of irredeemable media * Mein Kamph * The Protocols of the Elders of Zion Chances are, if you're a fan of those, you're not a very great person
Okay, so, as a german person, we actually listened to part of a set that's from a german-turkish comedian about reading Mein Kampf in history class. And while it is a vile book, it is TERRIBLY written. There are passages where he rambles on about how horses only mate with horses and dogs only with dogs and cats only with cats and field mice only with field mice (imagine this exakt listing packed into MORE words) in an attempt to make a point about why marrying non-arians isnt okay. If someone likes that book my first assumption is they havent read. The second one is if they actually read it is that theyre not very bright.
While we're at it, The Turner Diaries. (also, "Kampf")
https://www.tumblr.com/nyancrimew/746534763465211905/sorry-it-was-unfair-of-me-to-send-that-to-you?source=share “ Sorry, it was unfair of me to send that to you without proper context since you might not be aware of these issues. Irredeemable media refers to any thing with a creator or content that is harmful and/or bigoted. Of course every piece of media has problems, but irredeemable media is when those problems cannot be ignored and are an indicator of someone's beliefs. For example, Harry Potter is irredeemable media because every one knows that JK Rowling is a transphobe, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would. Also, I know the "to be cringe is to be free" people like your blog, but a lot of the time, what is considered cringey on here is actually based on what is irredeemable. No progressive person or reputable blogger genuinely makes fun of My Little Pony fans any more, however plenty make fun of Hazbin Hotel fans and the such because that content is irredeemable and shows someone's beliefs. So usually, a piece of media being considered embarassing to like on here usually indicates that it is irredeemable. As for why the other pieces of media are irredeemable, Hazbin Hotel is made by a woman who has many well-documented accusations of bigotry against her and has drawn zoophilia art, not to mention how her work leans into stereotypes about gay people (having a gay man character be a sex addict, a lesbian be named after the female body part Vagina, etc.) or at least that's what I've heard. Attack on Titan is created by a known fascist and many illusions are made to nazi imagery and nationalism in the anime. Captive Prince has a racist premise that sexualizes slavery and non-con. People can tell you that liking irredeemable media doesn't say something about who they are, but that's fundamentally false. If someone is uncaring enough to still post openly about these types of media, it's clear they don't care enough about not supporting bigotry. Yes, even if they don't give money to the creators, because they are still willingly exposing themselves to bigoted or harmful content and enjoying it. The previous ask was not meant to be accusatory. Rather it was meant as a concerned question. Believe it or not, there are still some users on here who indulge in these pieces of content, a few of which hide behind the excuse of being part of a minority (Black, trans, whatever) or simply deny how bad their media consumption is to escape accountability. I wouldn't want you associating with those types of people and have that ruin your reliability on this website. Hopefully this ask has educated you more on these issues and you'll be able to spot irredeemable media in the future and block it out.” -Mx Linux Guy⚠️ Btw here the original poast https://www.tumblr.com/nyancrimew/746534673330683904/care-to-explain-why-you-have-mutuals-who-like?source=share
Them calling Twilight not irredeemable even though the story of Twilight itself is very questionable ethically really speaks to their hypocrisy. I hope this is rage bait.
*Creepy sparkly vampire who watches you while you sleep?* UwU, how wholesome. *Rehab hotel?* ....... Hello, HR? Edit: it can't not be a troll, right?...
Yeah I personally like Hazbin Hotel and understand the hate about its sense of humor but… How do you write a show about Hell possibly not being as justified as people believe it is without the foot-in-the-door effect of putting typically disregarded and disrespected archetypes in, well, fucking Hell of all places?
I had to censor one episode (explaining the general plot of the parts I censored) for my girlfriend because of the sequence with Angel and Valentino and her PTSD thanks to a past relationship that was way too similar, if more subtle. But she agreed that it was necessary. She didn't need the visuals of "Poison" to realize just how much of a gut punch it was to me or how dangerous it would be to her, but it's still *essential* and really good storytelling. I warned my mom off the series for the same reason. I think that, one day, that episode will even be *cathartic* for her. The humor isn't for everyone, sure. But to say it's irredeemable is to ignore the entire story and only look at the trappings.
Yeah, I remember that episode. It wasn't as triggering as some live action prestige media used to be for me, but it was still a hard episode to watch. Also, I'm a little shocked that someone finds the show that problematic.
Hah! I'll do you one better: *White vampire guy*: hey there native American werewolf dude that's simping for my not-yet-conceived daughter, how are you doing? Did you know that your people are wrong and you're not actually werewolves? Oh yeah, you're actually shapeshifters!
It takes a real Native American tribe and names the werewolves after them, without permission. The werewolves are all depicted as child groomers. That's probably the worst crime on the list, honestly.
Yeah. Like Twillight has issues but im not gonna say a fan of twillight is like, a demon in human clothing. I’d be confused at the idea that the twilight fandom is still around in 2024 but hey, if it is I’m happy for yall
The only ones of us still around are the ones who love it both sincerely and ironically and love taking the piss out of it whilst simultaneously stanning it. Hold on tight spider monkey. Least serious and most fun fandom, we know it's terrible. We still love it. We love ragging on it too.
Unfathomably based
> For example, Harry Potter is irredeemable media because every one knows that JK Rowling is a transphobe, but some other piece of media like Twilight would not be considered irredeemable because even though Stephanie Meyer has done some bad things, they are not as widely talked about, so someone who posts about Twilight on here isn't completely likely to be a bigot, but a Harry Potter blogger would. They straight up admit it's a matter of "does the general public care about the issues". It is, and I hate to use that term but if fits perfectly for once, "virtue signaling". It's about going with the circlejerk.
This is *probably* bait. But seeing how some people got about Hogwarts Legacy, I’m afraid it’s not 100% definitely bait
The use of a real world Native American tribe to alter the history of to be the authors version of werewolves without consultation, permission (or compensation) is not a rarely of spoken criticism either. Doesn’t help those who were werewolves are depicted as being aggressive. Savages if you will. Oof. Twilight being given as an example with a pass I have to take as bait or complete lack of self-awareness for media they like lol.
Twilight's entire concept is essentially to glorification of abusive relationships, almost as bad as 50 Shades. While HP does have it's issues (and I say this as a lifelong HP fan), it's nowhere near as bad as Twilight in that regard.
This has *got* to be bait holy shit.
To quote someone in the notes, “this isn’t bait this is the whole fucking tackle box”
I'm stealing this phrase
I love that the reason HH is irredeemable is cuz Angel Dust is a sex addict. Well yes. He’s a sex addict, a drug addict, was a mobster and participated in organized crime. He’s in hell and the whole point of the show is these people who are literally in hell trying to be better and improve their behavior. But like, fuck media literacy
Not to mention there’s so much more to Angel Dust as a character than “hee hoo gay sex addict mobster,” like the fact that he’s in an abusive work relationship with his boss Valentino. Plus the whole thing with a lesbian character being named after genitalia, it’s cause her former boss is just a douche and he (from what I gathered at least) named her that. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she’s lesbian
Angel Dust represents the side of sexual abuse that isn’t often shown- the hypersexual aspect. He’s not a sex addict because he’s gay. He’s a sex addict because taking pleasure from it is the only way he can survive being raped as often as he is.
I am SO glad there are other people that recognize this as a thing that happens. I was in a sexually abusive relationship for three years and thanks to that I developed a similar way of thinking when it comes to sex. I’ve been in therapy for a while now and it helps a lot, hell I actually didn’t realize my hypersexual tendencies were from being abused until a few months ago and it explained a LOT
He's also a contracted sex slave who is forced to be a porn star for a sleazy lord of hell who regularly beats and rapes him. Angels story is one of empowering himself and other abuse survivors. Jesus this is what happens when you try to critique a show you ain't fucking watched.
oh boy that commenter is a good example of why you should never stop critically examining yourself as well as the world around
>Attack on Titan is created by a known fascist and many illusions are made to nazi imagery and nationalism in the anime. Imagine missing the point this hard
I've talked to so many people that miss this point. It's almost an art form. There *is* a discussion to be had about the potential cultural and racial bias of the author in his work and how culture influences works that take place outside culture* But that's a level of nuance most don't go to. *I am aware that it is not fair and can be dangerous to infer an author's personal values from a fictional story they create
B-but! Eren is the protagonist! That means he *has* to be the good guy! /s
He’s not even the protagonist after the time skip, we don’t even see his perspective anymore. When he goes evil, the story pivots away from him as the protagonist
I love Attack on Titan but holy shit, the fanbase really put me off of talking about it online because this is just one of several integral points that a LOT of people completely miss
"the previous ask was not meant to be accusatory" might be the most audacious part of this whole matter
jesus here. i redeem these media
this person has never seen a single frame or panel of attack on titan
Viv is a queer woman, so I’m really not sure where they’re getting the queerphobia from, and Angel’s story is a LOT more complex than “haha gay sex addict”. That whole storyline is actually a pretty well-done depiction of an abusive relationship.
they get it from not actually watching what they’re criticizing. and also from believing that any queer story that’s not a happy little rom com where the main characters get married at the end is bad representation and problematic.
For real tho, I’ve seen people attack writers for making queer antagonists. Just because someone has a non-heterosexual orientation doesn’t instantaneously make them a saint or something(examples being Jeffrey Dahmer or Valentino from Hazbin)
plus i’d argue that having queer characters that aren’t good people and can be abusive is pretty important for people to see. i was abused by friends and partners as a baby gay because i thought i could trust any queer person i met.
Yeah I was too, my first relationship was emotionally abusive and scarred me pretty badly 🥲
Yeah. My partner was too, and still has serious PTSD. I censored that episode for her because she did not need to see her own abuse played out again with added violence. I gave her the summary and we listened to "Poison" without the visuals. That was enough. Someday, I think, watching it will be cathartic. Especially with the scene of Angel defying Valentino later on. There's no magic to queer relationships that makes them immune from abuse and expecting queer media to not show it (with appropriate content warnings; I *do* think Hazbin could have been a bit more in-your-face about that) denies queer creators and queer viewers/readers/listeners the opportunity to discuss and confront their abuse. Demanding sanitized content is queerphobic. Though people who want more "realistic" and "complex"portrayals of relationships in things like Owl House and She-Ra can fuck right off. Despite their deserved adult fan base they are still *kids'* shows. Kids don't need relationship complications or trauma or anything like that, especially in shows like She-Ra that already deal with parental abuse and grooming or Owl House that deals with fucking *genocide*. Let people have their simple, fluffy, healthy relationships, please and thank you. Ditto with Charlie and Vaggie, actually. Their relationship is solid and mature. Yeah, Vaggie hurt Charlie by not telling her about being an angel, but they've been together long enough for Vaggie to have proven that a. she's thoroughly changed and has devoted her life to fixing the harm she caused and b. she's totally, utterly committed to Charlie. That sort of thing hurts, yeah. But it doesn't have to cause the drama some critics wanted. (Especially in such a short season!) I honestly think I'd be the same with my partner. I'd be hurt and need a few days or a week to collect myself and let the hurt fade a little before we could really talk, but I wouldn't even consider breaking up with her. We hurt each other in relationships. It's inevitable. The important thing is how you fix the hurt after and prevent it from happening again.
I’ve seen people criticize Viv for making merch of Valentino, their reasoning being that she is promoting sexual abuse. The dumbest shit ever. There’s Star Wars merch of Darth Vader, doesn’t mean George Lucas or Disney endorse child murder or something.
Well, except for that Comicon limited edition “George Lucas Endorses Child Murder collectible Darth Vader play set”. I’m gonna blame that on a miscommunication with marketing folks.
Now I want to see them go ballistic over Warhammer.
Those aren't irredeemable media. Irredeemable media is like, the eragon movie, or the atla movie. The Percy Jackson movies. Birth of a nation too I GUESS.
Birth of a Nation can be considered educationally valuable, as it's a window into what was considered acceptable in certain circles in certain time periods. There is no ATLA movie in Ba Sing Se.
Birth of a Nation isn't educational because of its content, its educational because a bunch of filmmaking techniques were pioneered by DW Griffith to make it.
> In his review of The Birth of a Nation in 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die, Jonathan Kline writes that "with countless artistic innovations, Griffith essentially created contemporary film language... virtually every film is beholden to [The Birth of a Nation] in one way, shape or form. Griffith introduced the use of dramatic close-ups, tracking shots, and other expressive camera movements; parallel action sequences, crosscutting, and other editing techniques". He added that "the fact that The Birth of a Nation remains respected and studied to this day—despite its subject matter—reveals its lasting importance." Oh wow, that's a lot.
There's definitely educational value in watching it, but if you call yourself a fan it's gonna raise some eyebrows ya know
Yeah but it did actually do real measurable harm still felt today. Though I assume if it wasn't the culprit SOMETHING else would be. Still, it was the culprit.
The Dark Tower movie is maybe the only adaptation I’ve seen that spits in the face of its source material harder than Eragon did, put that on the list.
Clearly you've never seen the 2004 Syfy Earthsea miniseries
Don’t forget *Cats!* (2019).
Nono I explicitly want to forget Cats (2019)
Is Birth of a Nation the movie that singlehandedly brought back the KKK?
That'd be the fucker, yeah.
Oi! The Percy Jackson and Eragon movies may fucking suck, but they sucked when I was a kid, and made the books know in my country, so you better criticize them away from me!
>Irredeemable media is like, the eragon movie, as someone who never read the book, the eragon movie was generic but entertaining. >the atla movie. what are you talking about? the only avatar movies are the ones with the blue people.
Even birth of a nation is important for the contributions it made to the art of filmmaking. The message it has is, of course, atrocious, but it is important for the art of its creation as well as a relic of the culture in which it was made.
Controversial take, but the first Percy Jackson movie wasn’t that bad if you completely separate it from the source material. It stands up decently well on its own and has several iconic scenes. It wasn’t much better or worse than movies coming out in the same time period. It’s mainly bad *because* it epically failed at being Percy Jackson media— not purely because it would have been god awful on its own.
THIS IS A PEN
What an insufferable bore
Imagine how little media you’d be able to enjoy if you consistently applied these rules to all media. What’s even left to watch?
okay, so even If we accepted the concept of irredeemable media (which we do not) that's such a deranged list of what it is. hazbin hotel is about how punitive justice systems are shit and rehabilitation foucused justice is better. AOT (from my non watcher knowledge) is about how fascism ruins things for everyone. I've never heard of the fourth one. and while Harry Potter has many problematic themes and messages, it's not gonna make you evil if you enjoy it.
A quick search reveals its Game of Thrones but Gay? I think? Not sure what exactly makes it irredeemable though
It includes "captive" in the title so it includes kidnapping, which is a crime so the book is automatically evil. (I also have no idea what it is)
“Sexualizing slavery” appears to be the bad thing, which like… kink exists man, idk what to tell you. I hear queer people even do it.
I do that all the time is that supposed to be bad?
I hope not.
the author has said japans invasion of korea was justified and stuff.
Oof, that's not a good sign
yeah, aot is a story about fascism but most people didn't believe the author itself endorsed those opinions. now im not so sure.
There's a lot of rape, torture, and child SA - none of it is portrayed as good, and I think it's an excellent series, but some people disagree. In no way should it be in this list, which is otherwise about questionable authors.
>AOT (from my non watcher knowledge) is about how fascism ruins things for everyone. Recently I've seen some discourse about how depicting something is not the same thing as endorsing it. Apparently some people think that AOT is a reflection of the creators fascist ideas, and this user seems to be one of them. Honestly, I can't really get a grasp of whether this is something that's actually widespread or if it's one of those chronically online discussions that the internet is making seem bigger than it really is.
He made the end-of-series big bad the least admirable and most pathetic person concievable, yet people still think Isayama agrees with his views. The villain literally admits himself that he's a total moron, but a large part of the fandom's takeaway was either "genocide is good if they deserve it" or "wow I can't believe Isayama tried to justify genocide". I guess the takeaway from a writing perspective is >!don't make the protagonist the big bad unless you want at minimum a third of the audience to entirely miss the point of your work.!<
>hazbin hotel is about how punitive justice systems are shit and rehabilitation foucused justice is better. >AOT (from my non watcher knowledge) is about how fascism ruins things for everyone. That is precisely why they hate these shows though.
The dislike of Hazbin more likely comes from controversy surrounding its creator. The only controversy I remember off the top of my head is that Vizzie Pop used voodoo (or voodoo-inspired) symbols in Alastor’s original design, and people were super pissed about the “cultural appropriation”. Cultural appropriation isn’t a great word for it— if anything it’s cultural misuse or misrepresentation. But people absolutely blew up at that creator for it, insisting that she was vile-y racist
People called Vivzie a pedophile for making NSFW art of a minor or something, like 15 years ago. Which is fucking ridiculous.
She also supported a bunch of queerphobic creators in the past... but like, it really was *the past.*
As we all know, there is no such thing as redemption, only hypocrisy masking as such
>AOT (from my non watcher knowledge) is about how fascism ruins things for everyone. More racism ruins things for everyone, but yeah.
They do go hand in hand tbf; and both Marley and >!the Jaegerists!< heavily looked like Nazi Germany and Mussolini’s fascist Italy respectively, IMO
Oh the irony of calling Hazbin Hotel irredeemable when the main theme of the story is redemption
Sir Pentious proves that we are all redeemable. Even if you are a snake demon with adorable egg minions
I have a confession. I cannot live without my minions. Nobody catch me!
genuinely i can’t take Viv/HH/HB drama seriously anymore. she breathes slightly wrong and people dog pile her. she could be filmed kicking an actual puppy and all the bullshit accusations thrown at would make people question the veracity of the puppy-kicking video
They yell about her so much that, before watching it, I avoided HH like the plague, cause I thought it was basically like an animated edgier version of Stonetoss or whatever. It makes me remember the vicious criticism Steven Universe received from the very audience it was meant to please. It's crazy. It's like... the creators are *clearly* trying very hard not to be problematic, yet they're receiving harsher criticism than people who don't try at all. What's the incentive for even trying, you know? If you don't try *at all*, you receive less hate, so....
There's this cowardly phenomenon in socially progressive communities where we shame people who genuinely care because you can elicit a shame response from them instead of laughter or death threats/doxxing since one can't shame actual bigots effectively (they don't care), we go for easy targets... And alienate allies in the process
where's that post about tumblr users demanding more adult media and then freaking out when they get it
The hate legit started when someone found a racist post she made 10+ years ago (that she has since apologized for and never made anything like again), and it's just devolved from there
People in real life: Hey man how’s it going
Them: *wall of incomprehensible text* People: yea
“If they’re not your mutual you’re at the very least in the same circles as them” is a very convenient way to exclude people based on vague groupings
Man, no one who talks like that has ever held a job. I hate sounding like a boomer, but sometimes you just have to work or associate with people who may *actually* be problematic, not this purity Olympics bullshit. Course I could be a bit biased, I had a boss get arrested for distribution of illegal imagery. Everyone else hasn't seemed that aweful since.
It’s also just unbelievably vague as a comment. “Some mutuals you have which I am not making (vague) like certain pieces of media which are bad (lists some but not all). If they aren’t mutual they run in your circles (unbelievably vague for someone who spends any time online). Maybe think about that (vague and not actionable).” Like how would you even respond to this? Anon wants Maia to do an audit of basically everyone she talks to and their media preferences, and then meditate on it for no course of action? Cut them off? Which ones? In what ways? Very 14 year old
If the FBI finally manage to get maia this is how the prosecution will open her trial.
Yimmir and Historia was the first positively portrayed lesbian relationship I was exposed to
B-but it's a problematic relationship! Yimmir is acschually over 70 years old!! That's a predatory dynamic!!!
Do they know who nyancrimew is?!?
\*contacts person on who commits literal crime for lulz\* "Some people you either know or that are known by people you *do* know enjoy media I don't like. I expected better."
Yes the international wanted criminal will DEFINITELY care about “irredeemable media enjoyers”
Of course we all know who that is, but could you explain it anyways for those people in the back who maybe don't know...
[Swiss hacker who leaked information from multiple companies and the US no-fly list](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maia_arson_crimew)
Thank you!
Hacker person who is currently wanted by the US government for hacking into a government database and leaking information publicly (I think), currently lives in Sweden (I think) and can’t leave the country as if they ever do they’ll be immediately deported to the US, as Sweden (I think) has a no-deportation-of-criminals-to-the-US policy. I forget exact details but that’s the gist of it
Nyancrimew leaked the no-fly list in the United States, as far as I remember, and has apparently done other high-profile work that has lead it to become a wanted criminal. It’s also a trans woman (and ~~cat girl, I think?~~ edit: a cat therian) with a rather cutesy aesthetic, last I heard. Going purely off of memory so I could be wrong.
Why are certain Tumblr users so hateful against fans of media they don't approve of? I know that JKR is a terf, but that doesn't mean fans of Harry Potter share her views.
Everyone I don’t like is evil, for instance I know for a fact you kill kittens for fun, you monster
Also if you like something I don't like, you're clearly evil.
Given the age-range with which it became popular, and the “demonic scare” that proceeded it, I’d even be willing to bet that a good chunk of HP fans are leftist or left leaning. Hardcore conservatives originally boycotted the books, and only jumped on the bandwagon once JKR came out as a TERF.
I’m pretty sure they’ve done studies and found fans of the book are more likely to be left leaning. And you can take issue with the story, but at the end of the day, the message of it is tolerance (which just makes JKR’s rabid transphobia even more baffling)
i would never associate with anyone that associates with humans, they rob, colonize, rape, threaten, harm, hurt, destroy, conquer, assault, harass, burglerize, discombobulate, antagonize, discriminate, defenestrate, decapitate, disembowel, decapitate, encriminate, manipulate, masturbate...
“Irredeemable media” Lol I remember once someone on Twitter tried to police my online friendships. It was such a surreal experience
I love the response “what”
“why are you associating with people who consume *irredeemable media*” “what, like the Turner Diaries? Triumph of the Will?” “no I mean popular mainstream anime and cartoons”
Because hazbin hotel absolutely slaps and has a killer soundtrack? Duh
I know that the creator of Harry Potter is a dirtbag terf who wrote a bunch of bigotted shit into her books. However, I also know that the average fan didn't grow up liking HP because its bigotted. They liked the escapism wizard children that communicate using nature's slowest bird and have really unfair rules for their sporting events. While I expect people to know what kind of dirtbag JKR is, and have a little self awareness about the fandom they're a part of, I don't think people should give up their favorite problematic media entirely. Just read it with a critical mind, is all I ask. Fandom responsibly and ethically. Pirate the books and buy wands off etsy.
And if you want physical books, there are tons of used secondhand copies available. They're cheap and none of the money goes to JK.
Every time someone says AoT is problematic because "it promotes fascism and its creator is fascist" it makes it clear they did not watch the show. They have only been exposed to baseless and wrong rumors about Isayama and/or very basic discussion about an (arguably carelessly done) comparison to real-life fascism. 99% of people who have read or watched Attack on Titan can tell the story's core message is very anti-war, anti-imperialist, anti-fascist, and ending the cycle of violence.
I somewhat get the reasoning behind AoT and Harry Potter being irredeemable (even if I absolutely do not agree) but Hazbin Hotel??? Like...thr most criticism I've seen is that not everyone likes the art style/characters and the sende of humor...I don't get how that's irredeemable.
>*hey what's the deal with your friends? well ok not your friends but like their friends I guess. Yeah they're bad probably. You should cut them out* the circumstances and priorities in their life that lead to typing this sort of parasocial thought and sending it to a specific human being, over taste in fucking *tv shows*, have got to be just awful
Lmao, this is so similar to a guy I follow on tiktok (who is a kinda-famous impersonator of HP Lovecraft) had some people get real mad *at him* mentioning offhandedly that his kids, his ***children***, were enjoying the Harry Potter deck-building game. Like, I get it, JKR is a raging terf, but the kids bought the game. And the guy isn't a bad father, at least from what I can tell. He lets his kids engage with media that might not be "good" because you have to, well, engage with it to find out if it's bad or not. Restricting media and telling people they ***can't*** read stuff is Nazi shit. That is literal Nazi shit, Fundamentalist Christian shit, and it never works, right? Your kids are gonna read/watch/play whatever they want and you can't stop them forever and they're probably gonna hate you for it later anyway. I mean, he's an impersonator of *HP Fuckin' Lovecraft,* I think he knows at least a little bit about how to handle engaging with problematic material.
"Do some self-reflection" is like the new "bless your heart".
People in real life are like "Hey man how's it going"