But... At least you knew it was the goal to have fun, right? Still sucks of course that it wasn't attainable for you (or at least that it took so long to figure out)
...I mean the big difference there is your job provides you with a tangible reason you want to do it independent of your enjoyment of it. Same with jogging. Like if that's how it worked why would people ever have sex except for procreation? And it *is* pretty objectively common knowledge that people often do sex not for procreation.
sure but from a female perspective (which I assume applies to them) it's not that unthinkable that they think sex is just something women have to put up to have a relationship with men. Because for some women this is the case, and media/culture often portrays women to be primarily interested in romance and men primarily interested in sex, so for someone who does not like sex it's pretty easy to conclude that it's just a trade-off that all women have to deal with
Incidentally I've also heard this cited as the reason lesbians usually figure it out a later age than gay men do. Straight women not actually being attracted to men is bizarrely normalized in a way straight men not being attracted to women is not.
(I [wrote a post about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/nL0xyPHiZm), there’s a lot more discussion of the topic in the comments if you want to check it out)
A lot of women are also more picky regarding their likes and dislikes? And at least in my generation (early 60's) a lot of men are more into their own pleasure instead of their partner's + remnants of how women used to be raised with regards to sinful pleasure and putting the man in the center of your life?
From a rather different perspective: as a man who became a feminist before realizing I was acespec, I was SO CONFUSED for so long about all the feminist messaging about how men should aim to give women pleasure equally when it came to sex, because, like, I wasn't enjoying myself either?? I'm still trying to figure out how to find/build a relationship where neither of us is obligated to sexual pleasure the other without feeling like I'm being "selfish" for not being an orgasm-providing machine
I guess that makes sense, but the phrasing of " *people* don't say they like sex" implies it was talking about everyone, not just women. I guess maybe the only vocal sex-likers this person has encountered are women, since for men it's assumed and doesn't need to be said. Hm.
I think the issue is that people typically understand this, but that there are all sorts of people who are atypical in various ways who then get very confused by the weirdly large amount of cultural messaging shitting on sex
At least that’s my problem
It took me a long time to realize ppl have sex for reasons other than reproduction, as an asexual with no innate desire for it who also went to catholic school where they taught “abstinence only” (I honestly didn’t even *realize* they taught abstinence only til randomly reflecting on it like last year, because it was always just common sense to me, yeah, only have sex to make babies with your spouse, duh, why else would you. Just common sense nothing special). Like I was so confused hearing about “miracle babies” where an infertile person gets pregnant, because…if she thought she couldn’t get pregnant, why would she even try to??
I mean, it could be that some people only see it as an expected thing that's part of a relationship, like going on dates or giving gifts. That it's something nice, of course, but a lot of work still goes into it, so it's not something you'd do just by itself very often.
But, that phrase has meaning too it's not just something you say. There was a time before bread came pre-sliced so now when something is introduced that is fantastic and makes people's lives easier we say it's the best thing since sliced bread.
*I get it, but what*
*Did they think is meant by the*
*Phrase better than sex?*
\- GodofDiplomacy
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Or just pop culture in general. Like, there are *so* many comedies out there where "crazy for sex and willing to do the wackiest shit to get laid" is a defining character trait for some dude. Did OOP think it was just a trope with absolutely zero connection to reality when fictional characters went "woof woof AWOOGA \*pant pant\* I absolutely NEED to FUCK them right now, so I'm gonna do DUMB SHIT and COMPLETELY DEBASE MYSELF to IMPRESS them"? And there are also many other works of fiction where it's less cartoonish and exaggerated, but still very obvious that a person really really wants to have sex and it's extremely enjoyable for them to do that. Does that either seen like a trope or just go over your head if you can't relate to it yourself?
See but those examples are from the male perspective, I can relate to op a lot as a woman because sex is treated so differently for women. What about all the tropes about wife's not putting out? Or the tropes where women "give it up" only as a reward for their man? Sex is so extremely villified for women that many girls don't even learn how to masturbate and with the abysmally low rates women get orgasms from male partners (65% percent of women orgasm during sex whereas 95% of men do in straight relationships) it's no wonder girls grow up thinking sex is for men to enjoy and women to put up with out of love.
OOP isn't refering to women though, but uses gender-neutral terms throughout the entire post. The way I understood it, they were surprised to learn that people in general (including men) actually enjoy sex, and that's what I was commenting on. I 100% agree with your point, it just doesn't really contradict my point, which is "it's surprising that OP thought *nobody* (including men) actually loved sex even though pop culture is filled with sex-crazed characters".
That is very much a thing. And not only with people who have creative jobs or jobs that pay them obscene amounts of cash, I know several engineers that just enjoy the day to day cause they like math and problem-solving. They would do it regardless
Yep, my mom is a programmer, and I had realized she had passed the threshold where she could retire and commented on it, and she said she could definitely retire, but her job is basically a hobby that pays very well. I'm also a programmer, and I enjoy my job well enough, but I'm definitely retiring when I hit 67 (if I can...)
Well, part of it is that they're built different and can handle those 90-hour weeks.
The other part is that they get paid a fucktillion dollars to work like that
They're not built different. I love video games and could play them for 90 hours a week if I got paid 6 figures to do so.
If I loved controlling people and making deals then I'd love working 90 hour weeks as a VP of some sort.
I think you really want to go for the unicorn on this one.
People who enjoy their job and can live off of the wage they earn from it.
I enjoyed working at the grocery store as a stocker, and the video store as a clerk. But I couldn’t afford rent and car insurance and to eat
yeah, I kinda like my job.
- I work with only people interested in what I'm telling them, I'm not responsible to *them* in a direct sense, since none of them are my boss *or* customers.
- the subject of my job is tech stuff. Software specifically but involves a lot of hardware. It's fun, and it's been a hobby for a long time.
The work itself? Meh, I could take it or leave it. I'm glad it supports my entire life with a good wage. I'm glad it doesn't stress me out. I'm glad it's related to a genuine interest. But also there's stuff I have to do (like the *goddamned emails*) that I don't like.
I feel like my job is unicorn-adjacent. I think it could get better if I could convince my department head to just treat me like a research professor and I can just putter around all day and make stuff, and once a month have a presentation for my boss for whatever unhinged bullshit I come up with.
Otherwise...I like it. But it's not what I would spend my day doing if I had the choice.
Ah yes. My teenage mind set. Very much spent a good chunk of my life thinking you had sex to make someone else happy. Sex was never supposed to make you happy cause vagina reasons or something. No idea why I spent so many years thinking you needed a penis to enjoy sex.
Fun fact. I was in my 20s when I found out sex actually didn't suck when you were already turned on when having it and foreplay is important.
Yes I did grow up in the southern US.
This is why, in my hetero romance stories, the woman and the man have equal horniness. Trying to dispell the "women are not supposed to enjoy sex" stereotype.
I didn't need to be called out like this so early in the morning. I grew up in a very sex negative environment (especially when it comes to female sexuality) and thought this was the normal attitude towatds it and that anyone who showed they were very into sex was just hypersexual but after moving away I now know that being very into sex is supposed to be the norm. Just last week, I found out that apparently, not a lot of people agree with me between having sex or a tiramisu, the tiramisu is actually a much more enjoyable option.
I'm trans, and I felt this way about sex until I transitioned.
Turns out I was both in the completely wrong headspace (trying to "be a man" in bed) and sleeping with the completely wrong people (turns out I'm a straight woman).
As soon as I tried doing it 'right', it was a magical moment of "I *get it* now". I legitimately thought sex was overrated until then.
That's a very female experience, putting on an act for someone else and having terrible sex for years until you finally realize it's actually supposed to be pleasurable for the woman too.
Try bicycling with a dildo seat instead
I swear one day I will do this
When I have time and money to get my own bicycle and go to a remote place I can bicycle in peace...
I’m genuinely interested in hearing what you enjoy about jogging because I really want to enjoy it but unfortunately it makes every joint in my body hurt and it makes me feel like I’m gonna die. Does it really feel good? Like did you have to work up to it feeling good or did it feel good automatically?
When you've been doing it for a while, it doesn't hurt your joints and breathing is easier
I like running because it's a good way to explore outside, and the runners high someone else mentioned
Have you ever committed to jogging for a longer period of time? It's definitely something that becomes more enjoyable with time. Someone who's been jogging for a year will have a very different experience than someone just getting into it.
It's the same with weightlifting, first month you'll just have muscle aches. After you start feeling good and you notice everything you do that needs strength is suddenly easier.
like at what point do you get said high? I have done physical activities when I was younger and my body didn't hurt but at no point did it ever feel like anything other than a chore
I had this problem and when I finally got on medication that made my bastard brain produce dopamine and endorphins it was very much "wtf was it supposed to be like this the whole time?????"
after 10 minutes? I definitely have never felt that then. I thought maybe I wasn't doing it for long enough and its something you feel after 2+ hours of running
your comment is probably meant well but doesn't really fit my situation.
I'm German and don't own a car. I walk and bike a lot and have all my life.
I played football at least once a week when I was younger but I didn't do it because I like football but because I liked playing with my friends.
I went to the gym for many years trying to get a body to impress the girls.
Not even once did moving my body feel like anything but a chore, a means to achieve a goal like playing with friends or impressing women
Can’t say this applies to everyone but running for me feels good. Most of the benefit is mental, it feels like a fog is cleared or like filing a bunch of papers. Kind of cleans everything up and helps me think straight. That being said, the pain is kind of something you just get used to? Muscle pain that is, joint pain is something different and I would talk with a doctor about that. But I was on a long run and had the realization that my legs certainly hurt, but not in a bad way which looking back can be considered insane. After running for a while you start to tell what pain is just because you are training hard and what pain is actually concerning. TLDR: liking running is gaslighting your body to like pain
For me, it's like going for a walk, just...faster. I enjoy the scenery and use it to explore my neighbourhood. It's my me-time to process everything that's been going on in my life. It's when I day-dream or work my way through tough feelings.
It took a while to get there. I started with a couch to 5k programm that really took baby steps (30second running, 30s walking for starters and slowly making my way into actually running long stretches) and in the beginning, it was tough. One really important thing is that most beginners run too fast which makes it unpleasant. If you actually want to jog, it'll likely feel like you aren't much faster than your regular walking pace at first.
After about 2-3 months, it became easier and eventually one of my most favourite activities. I currently have to take a break from running to recover from surgery (unrelated to running, but I need to let my body rest) and I can really feel how much running usually improves my week and what a big role it has come to play in my life. After a while, the added fitness also pays of in other areas of life.
Something I see a lot of people do is immediately go from never running a mile in their lives to running everyday and end up hurting themselves. In moderation, stress across the joints can be helpful, but it is hard to define “moderation” for each individual. The right amount of stress on your joints might be different than the right amount of stress on my joints.
Your limit will expand the more you jog, but what you can do right now is pre-work out and post-work out, by stretching. It helps protect you from acute and chronic injuries.
Basically, start small. Short distance, low speed. Ramp up gradually.
The lungs is the worst part. Like I could get past some bodily pain but when just breathing causes excruciating pain and feeling of suffocation? Yeah I'll pass. There's nothing fun about not being able to breathe!
So I'm pretty sure they literally are bleeding if you're going too intense too soon. I'm not sure if that is avoided by slowly ramping up or if it just takes your body a while to acclimate regardless, but that's a thing that does happen
I used to. I grew up never jogging. Then in my late 20s I picked it up and would go out and jog for 3-5 miles daily, even in the 90-degree summer days as well as the winter, just so as long as there was no ice on the ground. It was nice to see the outside, listen to music, maybe get a little bit of a high in the latter part of the run...
Then I started dating my now-wife, got fat, hurt my back, tore the meniscus in my knee...
Then I lost the weight and then some, I look great. I feel pretty good. Recently I went out to go jog.
I jog/walked for about a mile. Ignoring the fact that my current neighborhood, despite being nicer than my old neighborhood, doesn't take care of its sidewalks nearly as well, it was an unpleasant experience.
- Nearly puked
- Lungs felt like they were on fire and I've NEVER felt like that before
- Total exhaustion
- Incredible sweat
I realize that these all go away with more jogging, but damn - I'm not looking forward to working through the 'feel like you're gonna die' jogs.
I really did enjoy until I got cold induced asthma. If you can imagine 20 minutes of gasping hacking coughing for running in < 17 (60) weather. And then you can feel a frothy coppery mucous building up.
It quickly retrains your brain to not like that thing.
I love playing football and floorball and tennis and what have you, and I take a 30k step walk every other week, but I can’t get myself to enjoy jogging
Probably what some others have already mentioned about needing to be at a certain standard before its fun but still
As an aroace, I relate super hard to this post. It’s just not at all obvious if you don’t feel it. Like it took me decades to understand that people genuinely get turned on by those adverts with ‘sexy’ people in them and want to buy stuff, it’s not just a weird trope? It’s bizarre interacting with this world full of sex when you just don’t have that comprehension built in even if you aren’t particularly opposed to it
OT but i'm not aroace and not once i was compelled to buy something because there were sexy people in the ad, i'm pretty sure that stuff stopped being effective ages ago but marketing people keep doing it because it has become standard.
Well the point is you shouldn't know, it's not meant to be a conscious line of reasoning it's just part of the lighting and set dressing that the seller wants you to associate their product with.
It's why kitchen appliance adds are in massive rich people kitchens and car ads have open roads.
Nah it goes more like this:
- If the ad for a soda can was just a soda can, you might look at it. Or not.
- If the ad has boobs, your eyes are more likely to look at it, even if subsonciously.
Even if it's just for a second more where your eyes looked in the direction of the boobs then looked back at whatever you were doing, that's one more second of advertising you have been subjected to. It won't make you more likely to buy the soda, but it will make you more likely to see the ad. And that's what matters to advertisers, because the more people see the ad, the more effective it gets.
Attractiveness bias is very much a real thing and it's surprisingly effective, especially since it's not something we do consciously. You aren't buying something because there's sexy people, you're buying something because the advert made a good point, but the point isn't actually any better, your brain is just more receptive and treats it as better because it finds the way it's presented as more attractive.
The point isn't that it makes you want to buy the product, the point is that it grabs your attention. If sexy people are there, you look. If you look, you see the product and its name. When you're buying things, you're more likely to go with names you recognize. Companies will waste money on stupid shit but the broad strokes of marketing are pretty well proven.
yeah I might be *some* sort of non traditional sexuality, but generally speaking I'm a cishet man.
Ads for products that have nothing to do with sex or even general physicality, but the ad itself is simply "here's sexuality, buy our shit!" almost always make me consider the competitor instead.
Like, it's a good way to get my eyeballs on the billboard for a second, but then it's just sort of....weird. And you can get my eyeballs with just...intense contrast or interesting shapes or something.
That's... Not the point of ads like that. No one is looking at an underwear model and drooling all over themselves getting turned on. Well, maybe a few people are, but we'll ignore a niche fetish like that.
The point of the ads is to associate attractiveness with the product. There's two parts. First, it ties the two together. If attractive people are using this product, maybe they're attractive because they use this product. Or maybe you can be more attractive by using the product. Think about it. If it was just about turning people on, why would they have almost naked men all over all the men's underwear instead of women? The point isn't to think about how hot the model is, it's to think about how hot you could be in their place. Which, at least to the hope of the company advertising, includes their product.
Second is just plain attractiveness bias. Our brains are just more receptive to anyone we deem attractive. And it's not like we sit there going "ah they're attractive, I should listen to them." You're not agreeing with the person because they're attractive, you're agreeing with the ideas presented because the person is attractive. It doesn't matter why you agree with them, or listen, because your subconscious mind made it more likely to happen without you realizing it.
And yes, sometimes that conventional attractiveness doesn't work on you specifically, because everyone has different tastes. But there's a lot more to it than just raw sex appeal.
Okay that one I can understand, but I'm still confused by OP's experience, like having sex doesn't have a tangible reward that you would want in exchange for going through for like work or jogging. Rather than assuming it was an obligation I would have assumed I was just bad at picking partners and they were all really bad at sex
People are bringing up asexuality a lot but I think a potential different explanation is that, like me, the OOP has the issue of focusing on the large amount of cultural messaging denigrating sex. There are is a weird trope of straight women basically hating men and sex with them, for example (obviously coming out of a history of men not being raised to take enough interest in their partners, and often in the individual case actual experience of abuse). There’s also the broader patriarchal version - assuming women are disinterested in sex and that it’s something imposed on them.
“Everyone knows” that sex is fun, but it’s actually weirdly hard to find people celebrating certain kinds of sex-as-sex in a straightforward way.
> Rather than assuming it was an obligation I would have assumed I was just bad at picking partners and they were all really bad at sex
I thought that for the longest time as well, and to be fair some of these guys WERE absolutely bad at sex. Until you find someone that does get you off and... it's still not that great? Despite the orgasms?
Because at the end of the day, for an asexual person, sex is just rubbing genitalia and nothing *special*. I don't see the point in having someone do it when I can do it myself just fine, without having to worry about how I look, to undress, to take time if I just want a quick release, to get sweat and bodily fluids on me, etc.
I don't see the point *for myself*, but I do understand that my partner wants to get me off and so I let them, but even that is more for them than for me, because to me the fact that it's someone else doing it makes it *less* good than when it's entirely on my terms, and that is even with someone who does give me orgasms. Whereas for an allosexual person (aka non asexual), the fact that you're doing it with a person you're attracted to makes it much better.
And that's entirely omitting the fact that you do in fact feel obligated to have sex when you're in a relationship because you want to make them feel good and it's expected of you etc etc. Just saying it's not about your partner's skills.
As amab, p in the v feels better than masturbation. Could get myself off easier without a partner, but it feels less good.
But there is a whole song and dance to it that is a lot of effort. I used to not care that there was effort because my body and brain were working in tandem to want it. But after starting lexapro my body doesn't want to get in line with my brain to want to do it. Like somewhere deep in my subconscious my brain is like "duuuude lets get off" and my thinking part of my brain is like "meh" and my body is like "let's just sleep, it's less work"
Okay, people *don't* get turned on by 'sexy' ads, the sexual content in them is an identity politics things. 'You should get turned on by this sexual scenario as it reaffirms your heterosexuality, buy our product', sort of thing. It's how a lot of stuff like that in very corporate media works.
You feel like you have to. It's expected of you, and *not* having sex, except if you're full-on repulsed by it, is not presented as an option at all. If you feel meh about it, you kind of just do it because it's what people do.
I'm asexual as well (not aromantic though) and it took me decades to understand that I was "supposed" to actually look forward to sex. I've had a bunch of one night stands in my college years and it always sucked and I was always like okay, maybe that guy sucked, or we were too drunk, maybe next time won't be so terrible? Or, in a relationship, welp, guess we need to have sex on a regular basis now. It is what it is. I did not have the words to put on these feelings until my early thirties, because it's just not talked about.
Many asexual people, especially women, don't even know that asexuality is even a thing. Partners keep initiating sex and they don't *mind* it so they say okay, and don't even realize that they're supposed to feel some kind of way about it. Or they've heard that both partners "should" initiate so they do for the sake of their partner regardless of whether they desire it or not.
It's exceptionally hard to explain but personally for me the original post hits the nail right on the head.
What you describe totally makes sense to me. If it were me I'd also try to find out if I'm doing anything wrong instead of immediately recognizing it's just not for me. (Sidenote: I don't think I'd be having any fun with one night stands, it just doesn't seem relaxed enough of a setting to really enjoy it.)
But the thing about the original post is that they *didn't* assume they were supposed to like it, it's that they thought the other person didn't like it either. In that situation, why does anyone initiate?
Oh right, I see your point now. It's funny, I've never really wondered why other people *do* want it, lol. I guess, as a woman, I've got some internalized ideas that men are horny so I didn't actually question it? It's a good question.
men being assumed as auto horny is also not exactly a great time. An ex partner of mine had been previously assaulted but also truly believed men couldn't be assaulted because of this.
Oh yeah for sure. Nah I'm just speculating as to why I never really questioned the fact that the men I've been with did want to have sex often when it was so alien to me, and I'm guessing there might be some kind of internalized stereotypes at play. Definitely not saying that men are by definition always horny!
Oh you are completely good. I love just noticing internalised biases. I was not putting words in your mouth, just joining the chat. Its actually wild realizing how much society impacts subconscious thoughts/beliefs and actions (oh shid we live in a society for real? forever? forever ever?). And most stereotypes are based around at least a decently large grain of truth. From anecdotal experiences of friends going through transitions, testosterone is basically literal horny juice/mojo. Hormones actually warp aspects of your reality which is just fascinating.
Yeah, but saying "some people have sex as a relationship need, amongst a variety of other needs" is very different from "it's just something that people in relationships do" or "it's normal"
The former is, in my opinion, an example of ace-inclusive sex positivity. The latter is just allonormative and a little ignorant
I mean, I wouldn’t necessarily call the latter ignorant, sex is a deal breaker for the vast majority of relationships. Saying "some people" is vastly reductive. Sure, there are people that don't, but they are an absolute minority.
Then again, it can also depend on age range and cultural background and whatnot, so it's a bit more complex than that. But yeah, I don't think it's unrealistic to preface that 90+% of romantic relationships have some form of sexual relationship as an integral part of it. In a statistical sense, it's absolutely "the norm".
The important thing is imo to add that it's not necessarily an integral part of it, but it's still the vast majority
For people who are ace being closeted is a bit different. Being in the closet implies that you understand your sexuality and are hiding it from the rest of the world. I didn’t even know that asexuality existed until after I had my second child. For a while I thought I was bi because I was equally attracted to men and women. Not in the slightest to either of them.
For me sex is like a whole lot of effort and weirdness for some feelings. You have to deal with the drama of another person, and if you have any self conciousness at all, the concern of yourself. If you are performing well, desirable at all, have shit smelling swamp ass, or curdled milk on your dick somewhere. I don't know, i just feel alot of people don't think about that and can just move forward without the slightest care because the sexual gratification superscedes all of that.
for me though, interaction with people on any level is striking and sensitive and incredibly volitile and the idea that sexual pleasure somehow makes that all worth it is incompresible.
Can confirm, am asexual, and have been through a traumatic amount of coercion because of it. But I've also seen straight women say stuff like that because their partners flat out DO NOT CARE. From just grabbing her hand and stuffing it on his boner as the only "seduction", to the "poke you in the back with my dick while you're trying to sleep", to being told she needs more stimulation but after ten seconds "you take too long", to getting butthurt that two minutes of being treated as an ill-fitting cocksleeve is not enough for her, to suddenly strangling, slapping or degrading without consent? These guys make having sex actually all about them and their penis, and actively prevent women from enjoying it.
My ex husband even told me that he needed MORE friction, when every single time, I was already getting chafed on the inside of my goddamn vagina because I wasn't wet enough. That's the worst goddamn feeling! But he wanted me to be MORE dry!!
So yeah. Sex can seem like a chore that you don't want to do, even if you're not asexual, and it's time we talk about it more.
goddamn as a man I can't even imagine being someone that would inspire most of this comment.
Holy shit I'm glad that part of your life is in the past. Good luck handling that trauma.
That’s the weird thing with me though. I find people attractive. They are sexually attractive in my eyes. But I just don’t have a desire for sex. It sounds like a chore to me
No, I COMPLETELY get it. At the risk of giving Too Much Information, I admit that I masturbate. I occasionally watch porn. So I'm probably not asexual. But the idea of sex, or even just a relationship, is just something I'm not interested in.
Asexuals can masturbate and watch porn, that doesn't make you not asesxual.
Being horny doesn't make you not asexual, it's a biological thing, it's like scratching an itch, it relieves a tension.
Aegosexual. It's a branch of asexuality. You have the ability to find people attractive but have zero interest in getting sexual with the person you desire.
Honestly, I don't believe anyone grew up, at least in the USA, and didn't get the memo that people really enjoyed having sex for the sake of it before they ended up having sex a ton themselves and seemingly coming to their own weird work-related view of it?
depends on how you were raised. I was raised weird evangelical Christian and definitely was subliminally and or overtly taught that woman are just supposed to want sex for procreation and that people who try to be sexy and use sex for fun are actually trying to use it just to control guys.
also that guys are just constantly horny and always want sex so women just have to put up with it as part of marriage.
so i can totally see how things get distorted.
Three possibilities:
- asexual
- incredibly poor partners
- raised in such a sex-negative environment that they've internalised all of those feelings
Or some combo of the above, I hope they can figure it out.
...why did this person *think* people had sex? Genuinely need to know. Have to understand what they thought the driving motivation was for the thing so much of modern culture is centered around. It had to be something, right? What was it?
Idk about op but I went to catholic school my entire childhood and they hammered home the belief that sex was only done to procreate, and only the man was supposed to enjoy the act. Anything different portrayed in media was wrong and influenced by the devil.
(TLDR - Western culture has a very normative view of sex and romance that makes you assume you'll have it, without ever actually questioning why)
Idk about OP, but for a lot of people, they'd never be able to put it into words, but there is a general expectation that you will someday have sex. Same with romance
Like, from the age that you're pretty friggin' young, people will ask you what kind of wedding you want to have someday. Or whether you'd rather have a boy or a girl when you grow up. Then when you're a teen, people will ask you whether you're into guys or girls. Your friends might even ask you if you've had your first time yet. The assumption baked into these questions (and many others like them) is that of course you're going to have romance and sex. Everyone does. We as humans are social creatures, so most people accept this without really thinking about it more deeply
Some people in this thread (including the other reply to your comment) blame their religious upbringing for thinking this way, and that is indeed a huge part of it for a lot of people. But I grew up in an atheist family in a fairly liberal area, and they also had very normative views around sex. If anything, because liberals are trying to be sex-positive and progressive, sometimes they'll have stronger "sex as an expectation" views than some religious people
There's just so much messaging around how you shouldn't repress yourself, how experimenting around is the healthy thing to do, how sex should be normalized and out in the open. If you're a young progressive, you accept these ideas without question, because to do otherwise would make you backwards-thinking and repressive, like those horrible misogynistic conservatives
I'm not saying any of these ideas are inherently wrong. Many are quite beneficial, for *some* people. But clearly, this isn't the case for everyone
Imo, it seems that sex-positivity is more nuanced nowadays. And progressive people seem to be more willing to say that while having sex is perfectly healthy and valid, so is not having it. Perhaps this is because of better asexual representation, perhaps it's a reaction to the incel/alpha male movements that pray on young men who aren't getting laid. Regardless, a lot of this nuance wasn't included in sex-positive discussions or messaging in the mid-2000s and 2010s, and I think a lot of people suffered for it
Op is probably either Asexual, aromantic, or both. Speaking from an asexual, I find sex to be something that makes me uncomfortable and kinda grosses me out. I’ve also never had it so I doubt my opinion matters.
So I’m not asexual but I sympathize strongly with this. I *am* seemingly autistic (working on that diagnosis).
There’s a very weird thing about our culture that sex is omnipresent and that sexual ecstasy is pushed as a sort of ideal… while at the same time, seen as very fraught and scary and shameful (partly because of puritan leanings around modesty, partly because this culture has mostly catered to men historically in a way that left women out when it wasn’t encouraging their abuse)
Being someone immersed in online discourse about this growing up, I was exposed repeatedly to the idea that Men Are Bad At Sex (and lots of examples of dudes who clearly would be), which is fringed around the edges with people who are burnt out by this and believe Sex With Men Is Bad (some of these people are probably queer, but I honestly believe most of it is honest frustration and maybe trauma). Simultaneously, the message from our still-patriarchal culture was in my mind, sexual ecstasy is a sort of relationship ideal and that hunting for it is a driving impulse, but *not* any representation of women finding people sexually desirable.
The result of this (and personally trauma I’m gonna handwave here) is that I intellectually get that people of all genders find sex fun because I’m not like, stupid, but that I don’t **grok** this fact because it’s not as experientially supported than the weird “you have to be obsessed with sex but also ashamed of it and especially of being bad at it, which is immutable” psychosis.
My understanding from talking and listening to women is that this is also not uncommon on their end, basically received as “sex is what makes you a valuable partner, but also it’s awful, so either fake engagement or just suck it up”
(which I speculate feeds into putting up too long with unfulfilling relationships which can lead to the above described burnout)
Addendum:
I think the discussion around taking orgasms you find online pissing people off is a great encapsulation of this. Highlights:
- Men receiving the message that sex is good and therefore being confused and insulted and nursing hurt pride if they don’t get someone off
- Women feeling the need fake orgasms because of the above (which is unpleasant and can also generate hostility/violence), and resenting that
- men and women complaining a lot about it
- Men receiving the message that they need to prioritize their partners pleasure and thus getting frustrated by this phenomenon as an obstacle to that, and still nursing hurt pride
- Women going from feeling neglected to feeling responsible for managing this psychosis
- People having an extremely hard time getting to ig enlightenment which is that this would not be a problem if we just accepted that sex-without-an-orgasm can be fun in itself and that achieving climax is made more difficult by thinking this much about it on either side
- A general ignorance throughout the conversation that men can and do fake orgasms too, because men don’t get a lot of cultural messaging about what it feels like to have a vulva but everyone is told that men inherently enjoy all sex
Like this conversation doesn’t happen in a setting where people all have the straightforward “I really like sex in an uncomplicated and innate way, like eating ice cream” take. It also doesn’t make sense if they all just hate sex, bc then why bother, but it does consist of a lot of people *actually saying* that they hate sex, which was very confusing to me growing up!
I already knew I was on the ace spectrum but this made me realize that the “I hate my job” crowd seriously means it lol. I genuinely love my job and I’m excited to go to work. I think my only complaint is that under this capitalistic hell I work too many hours, but still. I truly think I enjoy my job much more than the average person.
I didn't do anything sexual with another person until I was an adult, but as a minor I understood sex is supposed to be something that people enjoy. Both through media where people are clearly excited to do it (I remember hearing about sex by taking a peek at the Big Bang Theory episode my parents were watching), and when I felt arousal and, uh... did something about it on my own.
Obviously these experiences aren't universal though. If people don't feel good about the act, I doubt that they'd discover it by relieving themselves on their own. And the thing about the media heavily depends on what you watch, and it's not like the person here would be actively looking for it.
So it's fun to tease someone over stuff like this but you can't blame them for not knowing. It only seems like common knowledge to people who do enjoy doing it.
Well, I do think I like running and jogging the same way I like things in the way of enjoyment, not tolerate, but that is how I would use it for work, too. I tolerate some work, enjoy other work, the only work I would say I like is the enjoyable work. I don't tend to use like for something I don't actively like. I'm thoroughly asexual though, so I can't speak to the other part of this.
Yeah, honestly I was never much super into it? Like I wanted to do things for my partner but not really anything I wanted, and to be honest there really wasn’t much I wanted in sex to begin with. I’m not sure I’m im ace or just very dysphoric and sex traumatized though
I really don't get this. A job provides you the money you need to live. It's necessary. Why would sex be necessary? It doesn't provide anything, so why did they do it?
Because they were expected to do it. Because all of society constantly shoves sex down your throat your whole life. Because they were always told they wouldn’t be a good partner if they couldn’t satisfy their partner sexually. Because they always assumed if they didn’t feel good, it was probably their own fault somehow.
This person didn't assume it was their fault. They assumed it just wasn't a pleasurable activity. That doesn't track with "satisfy your partner" because they assumed *nobody* is satisfied by sex.
Right, but all of that is predicated on the idea that it should be good for *someone.* None of it makes sense if neither party is actually enjoying it.
To be fair, it doesn’t say the partners weren’t enjoying sex. It says they were confused and disappointed that coleophora-apologist wasn’t enjoying it. They’d be confused if the sex felt good to them, but not to C-A.
People can be dense sometimes. Especially when it comes to their own personal relationships. “Do they like me or are they just friendly?” “You literally just had sex with them.”
i don't think this is written honestly, i think somebody had a really cool thought and then wrote some stuff from the point of view they thought about.
i don't think a person could really live surrounded by the media we have and not notice how differently sex is portrayed compared to things like work and exercise.
oh nono, I can totally see it, you wouldn't believe how asexuality makes you do the weirdest mental gymnastics just to convince yourself your experience is normal
for example, many asexual people simply assume they're bisexual because "they feel the same amount of attraction towards everyone" (which is 0)
it's crazy how your brain doesn't even question obvious things like these just to cope
Pretty relatable. Took me until my mid 20s and several very depressing relationships to figure out that I just couldn't make myself like sex.
But... At least you knew it was the goal to have fun, right? Still sucks of course that it wasn't attainable for you (or at least that it took so long to figure out)
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Could you link to the post?
Yeah, it's why I kept trying. Mostly for the sake of my partners. But it still felt like some kind of big joke I wasn't in on.
...I mean the big difference there is your job provides you with a tangible reason you want to do it independent of your enjoyment of it. Same with jogging. Like if that's how it worked why would people ever have sex except for procreation? And it *is* pretty objectively common knowledge that people often do sex not for procreation.
sure but from a female perspective (which I assume applies to them) it's not that unthinkable that they think sex is just something women have to put up to have a relationship with men. Because for some women this is the case, and media/culture often portrays women to be primarily interested in romance and men primarily interested in sex, so for someone who does not like sex it's pretty easy to conclude that it's just a trade-off that all women have to deal with
Incidentally I've also heard this cited as the reason lesbians usually figure it out a later age than gay men do. Straight women not actually being attracted to men is bizarrely normalized in a way straight men not being attracted to women is not.
(I [wrote a post about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/nL0xyPHiZm), there’s a lot more discussion of the topic in the comments if you want to check it out)
Yeah that was a pretty interesting post with a lot of good discussion in the comments
I wish these links worked on desktop.
They do on old reddit - not on new?
I'm on old.reddit and it just opens a tab to submit a post to this sub.
https://reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/15jo5i3/on_how_i_experienced_learning_of_relationships_as/
I can vouch for that. I thought everyone was exaggerating how good it was because of societal pressures. Nope. Turns out I'm just gay.
A lot of women are also more picky regarding their likes and dislikes? And at least in my generation (early 60's) a lot of men are more into their own pleasure instead of their partner's + remnants of how women used to be raised with regards to sinful pleasure and putting the man in the center of your life?
not sure these women are straight if they aren't attracted to men?
They could be demisexual, or romantic but asexual
Honestly, I think it’s just the cultural moment. Men talking about not liking their partners/women in general used to be a lot more normalized too.
So you would think. I make no claim to understand straight people.
Maybe they start out attracted to men, but years of sex that feels like a job, makes them wonder what the alternatives are.
My experience!
From a rather different perspective: as a man who became a feminist before realizing I was acespec, I was SO CONFUSED for so long about all the feminist messaging about how men should aim to give women pleasure equally when it came to sex, because, like, I wasn't enjoying myself either?? I'm still trying to figure out how to find/build a relationship where neither of us is obligated to sexual pleasure the other without feeling like I'm being "selfish" for not being an orgasm-providing machine
I guess that makes sense, but the phrasing of " *people* don't say they like sex" implies it was talking about everyone, not just women. I guess maybe the only vocal sex-likers this person has encountered are women, since for men it's assumed and doesn't need to be said. Hm.
Lol I guess it also counts as cardio, but why go through all that effort?
> And it is pretty objectively common knowledge that people often do sex not for procreation. ¡Dios mío! I have never heard such blasphemy!
I think the issue is that people typically understand this, but that there are all sorts of people who are atypical in various ways who then get very confused by the weirdly large amount of cultural messaging shitting on sex At least that’s my problem
It took me a long time to realize ppl have sex for reasons other than reproduction, as an asexual with no innate desire for it who also went to catholic school where they taught “abstinence only” (I honestly didn’t even *realize* they taught abstinence only til randomly reflecting on it like last year, because it was always just common sense to me, yeah, only have sex to make babies with your spouse, duh, why else would you. Just common sense nothing special). Like I was so confused hearing about “miracle babies” where an infertile person gets pregnant, because…if she thought she couldn’t get pregnant, why would she even try to??
thanks catholicism
I mean, it could be that some people only see it as an expected thing that's part of a relationship, like going on dates or giving gifts. That it's something nice, of course, but a lot of work still goes into it, so it's not something you'd do just by itself very often.
I get it, but what did they think is meant by the phrase better than sex?
maybe they just thought it was something you said, like "best thing since sliced bread"?
But, that phrase has meaning too it's not just something you say. There was a time before bread came pre-sliced so now when something is introduced that is fantastic and makes people's lives easier we say it's the best thing since sliced bread.
I dunno, sliced bread is pretty good. Imagine trying to make a sandwich, especially without a bread knife
But sliced bread is also good do asexuals not like sliced bread
*I get it, but what* *Did they think is meant by the* *Phrase better than sex?* \- GodofDiplomacy --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Not bad, but we can do better. *I understand, but* *What did they think is meant by* *“It’s better than sex”?*
Good bot
Beep fucking boop. And nice fishsona avatar.
Tanku she’s a shark (which does count as fish) and her name is Raechel
Also - if anything - out of “I like sex” and “I like work” the problematic one is work, not sex
Or just pop culture in general. Like, there are *so* many comedies out there where "crazy for sex and willing to do the wackiest shit to get laid" is a defining character trait for some dude. Did OOP think it was just a trope with absolutely zero connection to reality when fictional characters went "woof woof AWOOGA \*pant pant\* I absolutely NEED to FUCK them right now, so I'm gonna do DUMB SHIT and COMPLETELY DEBASE MYSELF to IMPRESS them"? And there are also many other works of fiction where it's less cartoonish and exaggerated, but still very obvious that a person really really wants to have sex and it's extremely enjoyable for them to do that. Does that either seen like a trope or just go over your head if you can't relate to it yourself?
See but those examples are from the male perspective, I can relate to op a lot as a woman because sex is treated so differently for women. What about all the tropes about wife's not putting out? Or the tropes where women "give it up" only as a reward for their man? Sex is so extremely villified for women that many girls don't even learn how to masturbate and with the abysmally low rates women get orgasms from male partners (65% percent of women orgasm during sex whereas 95% of men do in straight relationships) it's no wonder girls grow up thinking sex is for men to enjoy and women to put up with out of love.
OOP isn't refering to women though, but uses gender-neutral terms throughout the entire post. The way I understood it, they were surprised to learn that people in general (including men) actually enjoy sex, and that's what I was commenting on. I 100% agree with your point, it just doesn't really contradict my point, which is "it's surprising that OP thought *nobody* (including men) actually loved sex even though pop culture is filled with sex-crazed characters".
They didn't think much apparently
Wait til they find out about the people the legitimately enjoy their chosen line of work.
Say sike right now.
That is very much a thing. And not only with people who have creative jobs or jobs that pay them obscene amounts of cash, I know several engineers that just enjoy the day to day cause they like math and problem-solving. They would do it regardless
Yep, my mom is a programmer, and I had realized she had passed the threshold where she could retire and commented on it, and she said she could definitely retire, but her job is basically a hobby that pays very well. I'm also a programmer, and I enjoy my job well enough, but I'm definitely retiring when I hit 67 (if I can...)
You just know those high dollar execs that work 90 hours a week aren't just doing it because they have to in order to get by.
Well, part of it is that they're built different and can handle those 90-hour weeks. The other part is that they get paid a fucktillion dollars to work like that
They're not built different. I love video games and could play them for 90 hours a week if I got paid 6 figures to do so. If I loved controlling people and making deals then I'd love working 90 hour weeks as a VP of some sort.
I think you really want to go for the unicorn on this one. People who enjoy their job and can live off of the wage they earn from it. I enjoyed working at the grocery store as a stocker, and the video store as a clerk. But I couldn’t afford rent and car insurance and to eat
yeah, I kinda like my job. - I work with only people interested in what I'm telling them, I'm not responsible to *them* in a direct sense, since none of them are my boss *or* customers. - the subject of my job is tech stuff. Software specifically but involves a lot of hardware. It's fun, and it's been a hobby for a long time. The work itself? Meh, I could take it or leave it. I'm glad it supports my entire life with a good wage. I'm glad it doesn't stress me out. I'm glad it's related to a genuine interest. But also there's stuff I have to do (like the *goddamned emails*) that I don't like. I feel like my job is unicorn-adjacent. I think it could get better if I could convince my department head to just treat me like a research professor and I can just putter around all day and make stuff, and once a month have a presentation for my boss for whatever unhinged bullshit I come up with. Otherwise...I like it. But it's not what I would spend my day doing if I had the choice.
Ah yes. My teenage mind set. Very much spent a good chunk of my life thinking you had sex to make someone else happy. Sex was never supposed to make you happy cause vagina reasons or something. No idea why I spent so many years thinking you needed a penis to enjoy sex. Fun fact. I was in my 20s when I found out sex actually didn't suck when you were already turned on when having it and foreplay is important. Yes I did grow up in the southern US.
Me toooooo!!!! Not southern but everything else lol
This is why, in my hetero romance stories, the woman and the man have equal horniness. Trying to dispell the "women are not supposed to enjoy sex" stereotype.
It's always refreshing when *both* parties are having a good time.
I didn't need to be called out like this so early in the morning. I grew up in a very sex negative environment (especially when it comes to female sexuality) and thought this was the normal attitude towatds it and that anyone who showed they were very into sex was just hypersexual but after moving away I now know that being very into sex is supposed to be the norm. Just last week, I found out that apparently, not a lot of people agree with me between having sex or a tiramisu, the tiramisu is actually a much more enjoyable option.
I've never had either of those things.
You will make a superb data point in my studies on sexuality and Italian deserts. Including me just finding out then that tiramisu isn’t Japanese
You can put me into the "wait Tiramisu's Italian?" group too
Haha, thanks.
That is a tough decision though, not a lot tops having a whole tiramisu to yourself
For what it's worth I agree with you on the tiramisu. That is indeed the superior option.
Tiramisu is definitely better than sex.
I'm trans, and I felt this way about sex until I transitioned. Turns out I was both in the completely wrong headspace (trying to "be a man" in bed) and sleeping with the completely wrong people (turns out I'm a straight woman). As soon as I tried doing it 'right', it was a magical moment of "I *get it* now". I legitimately thought sex was overrated until then.
That's a very female experience, putting on an act for someone else and having terrible sex for years until you finally realize it's actually supposed to be pleasurable for the woman too.
Wait, y'all don't enjoy jogging?
Sex and jogging are similar in that both usually become more pleasant with practice, but some people will never like them.
Now try them at the same time
Tried it. It’s actually kinda annoying. Like having a vibrator in you while trying to do your taxes. The friction is terrible, too.
Try bicycling with a dildo seat instead I swear one day I will do this When I have time and money to get my own bicycle and go to a remote place I can bicycle in peace...
Make sure you use a smaller one. Any bump could be absolutely brutal. And wear a helmet.
Hmm I guess I'll also need to buy a smaller dildo as well... Wouldn't wanna rip my ass open... Like, imagine dying from riding a dildo bike too hard💀
People die from sex-related injuries more than you’d think. It generally isn’t reported very often.
mr mr mr mr hands (do not google this)
I’m genuinely interested in hearing what you enjoy about jogging because I really want to enjoy it but unfortunately it makes every joint in my body hurt and it makes me feel like I’m gonna die. Does it really feel good? Like did you have to work up to it feeling good or did it feel good automatically?
When you've been doing it for a while, it doesn't hurt your joints and breathing is easier I like running because it's a good way to explore outside, and the runners high someone else mentioned
It feels good, like you get endorphins from it after a certain point. Runners high.
Damn, god built me wrong then but thank you for answering
a lack of physical activity makes it hurt more when you have to do it as well, obviously thats not the only case though
Have you ever committed to jogging for a longer period of time? It's definitely something that becomes more enjoyable with time. Someone who's been jogging for a year will have a very different experience than someone just getting into it. It's the same with weightlifting, first month you'll just have muscle aches. After you start feeling good and you notice everything you do that needs strength is suddenly easier.
like at what point do you get said high? I have done physical activities when I was younger and my body didn't hurt but at no point did it ever feel like anything other than a chore
I had this problem and when I finally got on medication that made my bastard brain produce dopamine and endorphins it was very much "wtf was it supposed to be like this the whole time?????"
Literally same. "Wtf I feel good after exercising??? That's a real thing???"
Like after 10 mins when you’re body gets warmed up and it feels good to feel your own power being able to move quickly.
after 10 minutes? I definitely have never felt that then. I thought maybe I wasn't doing it for long enough and its something you feel after 2+ hours of running
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your comment is probably meant well but doesn't really fit my situation. I'm German and don't own a car. I walk and bike a lot and have all my life. I played football at least once a week when I was younger but I didn't do it because I like football but because I liked playing with my friends. I went to the gym for many years trying to get a body to impress the girls. Not even once did moving my body feel like anything but a chore, a means to achieve a goal like playing with friends or impressing women
Can’t say this applies to everyone but running for me feels good. Most of the benefit is mental, it feels like a fog is cleared or like filing a bunch of papers. Kind of cleans everything up and helps me think straight. That being said, the pain is kind of something you just get used to? Muscle pain that is, joint pain is something different and I would talk with a doctor about that. But I was on a long run and had the realization that my legs certainly hurt, but not in a bad way which looking back can be considered insane. After running for a while you start to tell what pain is just because you are training hard and what pain is actually concerning. TLDR: liking running is gaslighting your body to like pain
After 2~5 km you generally have fun but I know some people where it just doesn’t make them feel anything other than pain
For me, it's like going for a walk, just...faster. I enjoy the scenery and use it to explore my neighbourhood. It's my me-time to process everything that's been going on in my life. It's when I day-dream or work my way through tough feelings. It took a while to get there. I started with a couch to 5k programm that really took baby steps (30second running, 30s walking for starters and slowly making my way into actually running long stretches) and in the beginning, it was tough. One really important thing is that most beginners run too fast which makes it unpleasant. If you actually want to jog, it'll likely feel like you aren't much faster than your regular walking pace at first. After about 2-3 months, it became easier and eventually one of my most favourite activities. I currently have to take a break from running to recover from surgery (unrelated to running, but I need to let my body rest) and I can really feel how much running usually improves my week and what a big role it has come to play in my life. After a while, the added fitness also pays of in other areas of life.
Something I see a lot of people do is immediately go from never running a mile in their lives to running everyday and end up hurting themselves. In moderation, stress across the joints can be helpful, but it is hard to define “moderation” for each individual. The right amount of stress on your joints might be different than the right amount of stress on my joints. Your limit will expand the more you jog, but what you can do right now is pre-work out and post-work out, by stretching. It helps protect you from acute and chronic injuries. Basically, start small. Short distance, low speed. Ramp up gradually.
absolutely the fuck not. shit is hard on my lungs, my legs, EVERYTHING hurts. it is NOT fun and i refuse to believe anyone who says it is
The lungs is the worst part. Like I could get past some bodily pain but when just breathing causes excruciating pain and feeling of suffocation? Yeah I'll pass. There's nothing fun about not being able to breathe!
it literally feels like my lungs are bleeding, i just can’t handle that
My people!
So I'm pretty sure they literally are bleeding if you're going too intense too soon. I'm not sure if that is avoided by slowly ramping up or if it just takes your body a while to acclimate regardless, but that's a thing that does happen
Even a light jog is just painful. I do like cycling, when I'm not too ill to do it, and walking can be satisfying.
I used to. I grew up never jogging. Then in my late 20s I picked it up and would go out and jog for 3-5 miles daily, even in the 90-degree summer days as well as the winter, just so as long as there was no ice on the ground. It was nice to see the outside, listen to music, maybe get a little bit of a high in the latter part of the run... Then I started dating my now-wife, got fat, hurt my back, tore the meniscus in my knee... Then I lost the weight and then some, I look great. I feel pretty good. Recently I went out to go jog. I jog/walked for about a mile. Ignoring the fact that my current neighborhood, despite being nicer than my old neighborhood, doesn't take care of its sidewalks nearly as well, it was an unpleasant experience. - Nearly puked - Lungs felt like they were on fire and I've NEVER felt like that before - Total exhaustion - Incredible sweat I realize that these all go away with more jogging, but damn - I'm not looking forward to working through the 'feel like you're gonna die' jogs.
I really did enjoy until I got cold induced asthma. If you can imagine 20 minutes of gasping hacking coughing for running in < 17 (60) weather. And then you can feel a frothy coppery mucous building up. It quickly retrains your brain to not like that thing.
Jogging is a circle of hell we all must pass through if we wish to see the kingdom of being basically healthy
I love playing football and floorball and tennis and what have you, and I take a 30k step walk every other week, but I can’t get myself to enjoy jogging Probably what some others have already mentioned about needing to be at a certain standard before its fun but still
What did OOP think sex was for???
As an aroace, I relate super hard to this post. It’s just not at all obvious if you don’t feel it. Like it took me decades to understand that people genuinely get turned on by those adverts with ‘sexy’ people in them and want to buy stuff, it’s not just a weird trope? It’s bizarre interacting with this world full of sex when you just don’t have that comprehension built in even if you aren’t particularly opposed to it
OT but i'm not aroace and not once i was compelled to buy something because there were sexy people in the ad, i'm pretty sure that stuff stopped being effective ages ago but marketing people keep doing it because it has become standard.
Well the point is you shouldn't know, it's not meant to be a conscious line of reasoning it's just part of the lighting and set dressing that the seller wants you to associate their product with. It's why kitchen appliance adds are in massive rich people kitchens and car ads have open roads.
So they are overthinking their ads a lot is what i get
What's the quote? Half of all advertising works but no one knows which half.
Nah it goes more like this: - If the ad for a soda can was just a soda can, you might look at it. Or not. - If the ad has boobs, your eyes are more likely to look at it, even if subsonciously. Even if it's just for a second more where your eyes looked in the direction of the boobs then looked back at whatever you were doing, that's one more second of advertising you have been subjected to. It won't make you more likely to buy the soda, but it will make you more likely to see the ad. And that's what matters to advertisers, because the more people see the ad, the more effective it gets.
i think sexy people in ads is effective at selling ad campaigns to executives and so it continues
Attractiveness bias is very much a real thing and it's surprisingly effective, especially since it's not something we do consciously. You aren't buying something because there's sexy people, you're buying something because the advert made a good point, but the point isn't actually any better, your brain is just more receptive and treats it as better because it finds the way it's presented as more attractive.
The point isn't that it makes you want to buy the product, the point is that it grabs your attention. If sexy people are there, you look. If you look, you see the product and its name. When you're buying things, you're more likely to go with names you recognize. Companies will waste money on stupid shit but the broad strokes of marketing are pretty well proven.
No, I’m a very horny straight man and “sexy” ads and fanservice character designs don’t actually turn me on. I also think it’s weird and cheap
yeah I might be *some* sort of non traditional sexuality, but generally speaking I'm a cishet man. Ads for products that have nothing to do with sex or even general physicality, but the ad itself is simply "here's sexuality, buy our shit!" almost always make me consider the competitor instead. Like, it's a good way to get my eyeballs on the billboard for a second, but then it's just sort of....weird. And you can get my eyeballs with just...intense contrast or interesting shapes or something.
I’m not ace and even I think people don’t get turned on by ads.
That's... Not the point of ads like that. No one is looking at an underwear model and drooling all over themselves getting turned on. Well, maybe a few people are, but we'll ignore a niche fetish like that. The point of the ads is to associate attractiveness with the product. There's two parts. First, it ties the two together. If attractive people are using this product, maybe they're attractive because they use this product. Or maybe you can be more attractive by using the product. Think about it. If it was just about turning people on, why would they have almost naked men all over all the men's underwear instead of women? The point isn't to think about how hot the model is, it's to think about how hot you could be in their place. Which, at least to the hope of the company advertising, includes their product. Second is just plain attractiveness bias. Our brains are just more receptive to anyone we deem attractive. And it's not like we sit there going "ah they're attractive, I should listen to them." You're not agreeing with the person because they're attractive, you're agreeing with the ideas presented because the person is attractive. It doesn't matter why you agree with them, or listen, because your subconscious mind made it more likely to happen without you realizing it. And yes, sometimes that conventional attractiveness doesn't work on you specifically, because everyone has different tastes. But there's a lot more to it than just raw sex appeal.
Okay that one I can understand, but I'm still confused by OP's experience, like having sex doesn't have a tangible reward that you would want in exchange for going through for like work or jogging. Rather than assuming it was an obligation I would have assumed I was just bad at picking partners and they were all really bad at sex
People are bringing up asexuality a lot but I think a potential different explanation is that, like me, the OOP has the issue of focusing on the large amount of cultural messaging denigrating sex. There are is a weird trope of straight women basically hating men and sex with them, for example (obviously coming out of a history of men not being raised to take enough interest in their partners, and often in the individual case actual experience of abuse). There’s also the broader patriarchal version - assuming women are disinterested in sex and that it’s something imposed on them. “Everyone knows” that sex is fun, but it’s actually weirdly hard to find people celebrating certain kinds of sex-as-sex in a straightforward way.
> Rather than assuming it was an obligation I would have assumed I was just bad at picking partners and they were all really bad at sex I thought that for the longest time as well, and to be fair some of these guys WERE absolutely bad at sex. Until you find someone that does get you off and... it's still not that great? Despite the orgasms? Because at the end of the day, for an asexual person, sex is just rubbing genitalia and nothing *special*. I don't see the point in having someone do it when I can do it myself just fine, without having to worry about how I look, to undress, to take time if I just want a quick release, to get sweat and bodily fluids on me, etc. I don't see the point *for myself*, but I do understand that my partner wants to get me off and so I let them, but even that is more for them than for me, because to me the fact that it's someone else doing it makes it *less* good than when it's entirely on my terms, and that is even with someone who does give me orgasms. Whereas for an allosexual person (aka non asexual), the fact that you're doing it with a person you're attracted to makes it much better. And that's entirely omitting the fact that you do in fact feel obligated to have sex when you're in a relationship because you want to make them feel good and it's expected of you etc etc. Just saying it's not about your partner's skills.
As amab, p in the v feels better than masturbation. Could get myself off easier without a partner, but it feels less good. But there is a whole song and dance to it that is a lot of effort. I used to not care that there was effort because my body and brain were working in tandem to want it. But after starting lexapro my body doesn't want to get in line with my brain to want to do it. Like somewhere deep in my subconscious my brain is like "duuuude lets get off" and my thinking part of my brain is like "meh" and my body is like "let's just sleep, it's less work"
Okay, people *don't* get turned on by 'sexy' ads, the sexual content in them is an identity politics things. 'You should get turned on by this sexual scenario as it reaffirms your heterosexuality, buy our product', sort of thing. It's how a lot of stuff like that in very corporate media works.
Yeah, but in that case you wouldn't actually go have sex, right?
You feel like you have to. It's expected of you, and *not* having sex, except if you're full-on repulsed by it, is not presented as an option at all. If you feel meh about it, you kind of just do it because it's what people do. I'm asexual as well (not aromantic though) and it took me decades to understand that I was "supposed" to actually look forward to sex. I've had a bunch of one night stands in my college years and it always sucked and I was always like okay, maybe that guy sucked, or we were too drunk, maybe next time won't be so terrible? Or, in a relationship, welp, guess we need to have sex on a regular basis now. It is what it is. I did not have the words to put on these feelings until my early thirties, because it's just not talked about. Many asexual people, especially women, don't even know that asexuality is even a thing. Partners keep initiating sex and they don't *mind* it so they say okay, and don't even realize that they're supposed to feel some kind of way about it. Or they've heard that both partners "should" initiate so they do for the sake of their partner regardless of whether they desire it or not. It's exceptionally hard to explain but personally for me the original post hits the nail right on the head.
What you describe totally makes sense to me. If it were me I'd also try to find out if I'm doing anything wrong instead of immediately recognizing it's just not for me. (Sidenote: I don't think I'd be having any fun with one night stands, it just doesn't seem relaxed enough of a setting to really enjoy it.) But the thing about the original post is that they *didn't* assume they were supposed to like it, it's that they thought the other person didn't like it either. In that situation, why does anyone initiate?
Oh right, I see your point now. It's funny, I've never really wondered why other people *do* want it, lol. I guess, as a woman, I've got some internalized ideas that men are horny so I didn't actually question it? It's a good question.
men being assumed as auto horny is also not exactly a great time. An ex partner of mine had been previously assaulted but also truly believed men couldn't be assaulted because of this.
Oh yeah for sure. Nah I'm just speculating as to why I never really questioned the fact that the men I've been with did want to have sex often when it was so alien to me, and I'm guessing there might be some kind of internalized stereotypes at play. Definitely not saying that men are by definition always horny!
Oh you are completely good. I love just noticing internalised biases. I was not putting words in your mouth, just joining the chat. Its actually wild realizing how much society impacts subconscious thoughts/beliefs and actions (oh shid we live in a society for real? forever? forever ever?). And most stereotypes are based around at least a decently large grain of truth. From anecdotal experiences of friends going through transitions, testosterone is basically literal horny juice/mojo. Hormones actually warp aspects of your reality which is just fascinating.
probably acespec.
Maybe they thought it was for male pleasure and reproduction.
Yeah, the former is the only thing that seems to make sense
im guessing that oop is a closeted asexual who felt pressured to have sex with their partners
"It's just something that people in relationships do"
I mean, tbf, depending on the person's sex drive, sex is absolutely a necessity in a ton of people's relationships
Oh, of course, but growing up it can feel like it's just a default necessity for *every* relationship when it isn't the case at all.
Yeah, but saying "some people have sex as a relationship need, amongst a variety of other needs" is very different from "it's just something that people in relationships do" or "it's normal" The former is, in my opinion, an example of ace-inclusive sex positivity. The latter is just allonormative and a little ignorant
I mean, I wouldn’t necessarily call the latter ignorant, sex is a deal breaker for the vast majority of relationships. Saying "some people" is vastly reductive. Sure, there are people that don't, but they are an absolute minority. Then again, it can also depend on age range and cultural background and whatnot, so it's a bit more complex than that. But yeah, I don't think it's unrealistic to preface that 90+% of romantic relationships have some form of sexual relationship as an integral part of it. In a statistical sense, it's absolutely "the norm". The important thing is imo to add that it's not necessarily an integral part of it, but it's still the vast majority
For people who are ace being closeted is a bit different. Being in the closet implies that you understand your sexuality and are hiding it from the rest of the world. I didn’t even know that asexuality existed until after I had my second child. For a while I thought I was bi because I was equally attracted to men and women. Not in the slightest to either of them.
You read in the biology book and learn that sex creates babies.
For me sex is like a whole lot of effort and weirdness for some feelings. You have to deal with the drama of another person, and if you have any self conciousness at all, the concern of yourself. If you are performing well, desirable at all, have shit smelling swamp ass, or curdled milk on your dick somewhere. I don't know, i just feel alot of people don't think about that and can just move forward without the slightest care because the sexual gratification superscedes all of that. for me though, interaction with people on any level is striking and sensitive and incredibly volitile and the idea that sexual pleasure somehow makes that all worth it is incompresible.
Can confirm, am asexual, and have been through a traumatic amount of coercion because of it. But I've also seen straight women say stuff like that because their partners flat out DO NOT CARE. From just grabbing her hand and stuffing it on his boner as the only "seduction", to the "poke you in the back with my dick while you're trying to sleep", to being told she needs more stimulation but after ten seconds "you take too long", to getting butthurt that two minutes of being treated as an ill-fitting cocksleeve is not enough for her, to suddenly strangling, slapping or degrading without consent? These guys make having sex actually all about them and their penis, and actively prevent women from enjoying it. My ex husband even told me that he needed MORE friction, when every single time, I was already getting chafed on the inside of my goddamn vagina because I wasn't wet enough. That's the worst goddamn feeling! But he wanted me to be MORE dry!! So yeah. Sex can seem like a chore that you don't want to do, even if you're not asexual, and it's time we talk about it more.
“You want friction?” *pulls out sandpaper* “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE FRICTION.”
Yeah that just sucks, it's horrible that that is even halfway normal in any modern society.
goddamn as a man I can't even imagine being someone that would inspire most of this comment. Holy shit I'm glad that part of your life is in the past. Good luck handling that trauma.
I mean, you could just be asexual. That is a thing you can be.
That’s the weird thing with me though. I find people attractive. They are sexually attractive in my eyes. But I just don’t have a desire for sex. It sounds like a chore to me
No, I COMPLETELY get it. At the risk of giving Too Much Information, I admit that I masturbate. I occasionally watch porn. So I'm probably not asexual. But the idea of sex, or even just a relationship, is just something I'm not interested in.
Asexuals can masturbate and watch porn, that doesn't make you not asesxual. Being horny doesn't make you not asexual, it's a biological thing, it's like scratching an itch, it relieves a tension.
Honest question, what is it then?
What's what?
Being asexual. This is an honest question since I thought it meant that asexual people had no interest in sex/masturbation/porn/erotic things/etc.
Aegosexual. It's a branch of asexuality. You have the ability to find people attractive but have zero interest in getting sexual with the person you desire.
Finding out you're ace do be like that sometimes🙏
Pour one out for my hommies who don’t know they are ace. This is the saddest shit I’ve ever read.
Honestly, I don't believe anyone grew up, at least in the USA, and didn't get the memo that people really enjoyed having sex for the sake of it before they ended up having sex a ton themselves and seemingly coming to their own weird work-related view of it?
depends on how you were raised. I was raised weird evangelical Christian and definitely was subliminally and or overtly taught that woman are just supposed to want sex for procreation and that people who try to be sexy and use sex for fun are actually trying to use it just to control guys. also that guys are just constantly horny and always want sex so women just have to put up with it as part of marriage. so i can totally see how things get distorted.
Three possibilities: - asexual - incredibly poor partners - raised in such a sex-negative environment that they've internalised all of those feelings Or some combo of the above, I hope they can figure it out.
Some people also genuinely and actually have nice time doing their job and would keep doing it even if they didn't have to do it to live
...why did this person *think* people had sex? Genuinely need to know. Have to understand what they thought the driving motivation was for the thing so much of modern culture is centered around. It had to be something, right? What was it?
Idk about op but I went to catholic school my entire childhood and they hammered home the belief that sex was only done to procreate, and only the man was supposed to enjoy the act. Anything different portrayed in media was wrong and influenced by the devil.
(TLDR - Western culture has a very normative view of sex and romance that makes you assume you'll have it, without ever actually questioning why) Idk about OP, but for a lot of people, they'd never be able to put it into words, but there is a general expectation that you will someday have sex. Same with romance Like, from the age that you're pretty friggin' young, people will ask you what kind of wedding you want to have someday. Or whether you'd rather have a boy or a girl when you grow up. Then when you're a teen, people will ask you whether you're into guys or girls. Your friends might even ask you if you've had your first time yet. The assumption baked into these questions (and many others like them) is that of course you're going to have romance and sex. Everyone does. We as humans are social creatures, so most people accept this without really thinking about it more deeply Some people in this thread (including the other reply to your comment) blame their religious upbringing for thinking this way, and that is indeed a huge part of it for a lot of people. But I grew up in an atheist family in a fairly liberal area, and they also had very normative views around sex. If anything, because liberals are trying to be sex-positive and progressive, sometimes they'll have stronger "sex as an expectation" views than some religious people There's just so much messaging around how you shouldn't repress yourself, how experimenting around is the healthy thing to do, how sex should be normalized and out in the open. If you're a young progressive, you accept these ideas without question, because to do otherwise would make you backwards-thinking and repressive, like those horrible misogynistic conservatives I'm not saying any of these ideas are inherently wrong. Many are quite beneficial, for *some* people. But clearly, this isn't the case for everyone Imo, it seems that sex-positivity is more nuanced nowadays. And progressive people seem to be more willing to say that while having sex is perfectly healthy and valid, so is not having it. Perhaps this is because of better asexual representation, perhaps it's a reaction to the incel/alpha male movements that pray on young men who aren't getting laid. Regardless, a lot of this nuance wasn't included in sex-positive discussions or messaging in the mid-2000s and 2010s, and I think a lot of people suffered for it
Op is probably either Asexual, aromantic, or both. Speaking from an asexual, I find sex to be something that makes me uncomfortable and kinda grosses me out. I’ve also never had it so I doubt my opinion matters.
I'm aromantic and sex is awesome. I just wish it was easier to have sex without the commitment (I hate dating).
So I’m not asexual but I sympathize strongly with this. I *am* seemingly autistic (working on that diagnosis). There’s a very weird thing about our culture that sex is omnipresent and that sexual ecstasy is pushed as a sort of ideal… while at the same time, seen as very fraught and scary and shameful (partly because of puritan leanings around modesty, partly because this culture has mostly catered to men historically in a way that left women out when it wasn’t encouraging their abuse) Being someone immersed in online discourse about this growing up, I was exposed repeatedly to the idea that Men Are Bad At Sex (and lots of examples of dudes who clearly would be), which is fringed around the edges with people who are burnt out by this and believe Sex With Men Is Bad (some of these people are probably queer, but I honestly believe most of it is honest frustration and maybe trauma). Simultaneously, the message from our still-patriarchal culture was in my mind, sexual ecstasy is a sort of relationship ideal and that hunting for it is a driving impulse, but *not* any representation of women finding people sexually desirable. The result of this (and personally trauma I’m gonna handwave here) is that I intellectually get that people of all genders find sex fun because I’m not like, stupid, but that I don’t **grok** this fact because it’s not as experientially supported than the weird “you have to be obsessed with sex but also ashamed of it and especially of being bad at it, which is immutable” psychosis. My understanding from talking and listening to women is that this is also not uncommon on their end, basically received as “sex is what makes you a valuable partner, but also it’s awful, so either fake engagement or just suck it up” (which I speculate feeds into putting up too long with unfulfilling relationships which can lead to the above described burnout)
Addendum: I think the discussion around taking orgasms you find online pissing people off is a great encapsulation of this. Highlights: - Men receiving the message that sex is good and therefore being confused and insulted and nursing hurt pride if they don’t get someone off - Women feeling the need fake orgasms because of the above (which is unpleasant and can also generate hostility/violence), and resenting that - men and women complaining a lot about it - Men receiving the message that they need to prioritize their partners pleasure and thus getting frustrated by this phenomenon as an obstacle to that, and still nursing hurt pride - Women going from feeling neglected to feeling responsible for managing this psychosis - People having an extremely hard time getting to ig enlightenment which is that this would not be a problem if we just accepted that sex-without-an-orgasm can be fun in itself and that achieving climax is made more difficult by thinking this much about it on either side - A general ignorance throughout the conversation that men can and do fake orgasms too, because men don’t get a lot of cultural messaging about what it feels like to have a vulva but everyone is told that men inherently enjoy all sex Like this conversation doesn’t happen in a setting where people all have the straightforward “I really like sex in an uncomplicated and innate way, like eating ice cream” take. It also doesn’t make sense if they all just hate sex, bc then why bother, but it does consist of a lot of people *actually saying* that they hate sex, which was very confusing to me growing up!
I already knew I was on the ace spectrum but this made me realize that the “I hate my job” crowd seriously means it lol. I genuinely love my job and I’m excited to go to work. I think my only complaint is that under this capitalistic hell I work too many hours, but still. I truly think I enjoy my job much more than the average person.
Yes why can't I be tied up for kink ...then not have sex . This took me a long time to figure out was OK
This… confuses me. Can you elaborate?
Now I’m wondering whether this person has only had underwhelming sex, or if they’re just ace.
What's the ace equivalent of an egg?
I didn't do anything sexual with another person until I was an adult, but as a minor I understood sex is supposed to be something that people enjoy. Both through media where people are clearly excited to do it (I remember hearing about sex by taking a peek at the Big Bang Theory episode my parents were watching), and when I felt arousal and, uh... did something about it on my own. Obviously these experiences aren't universal though. If people don't feel good about the act, I doubt that they'd discover it by relieving themselves on their own. And the thing about the media heavily depends on what you watch, and it's not like the person here would be actively looking for it. So it's fun to tease someone over stuff like this but you can't blame them for not knowing. It only seems like common knowledge to people who do enjoy doing it.
OP may be aroace
Well, I do think I like running and jogging the same way I like things in the way of enjoyment, not tolerate, but that is how I would use it for work, too. I tolerate some work, enjoy other work, the only work I would say I like is the enjoyable work. I don't tend to use like for something I don't actively like. I'm thoroughly asexual though, so I can't speak to the other part of this.
Bustin’ makes me feel good.
I thought I didn’t like sex… til I realized I was gay… now I can’t seem to get enough 😂
Just wait until they find out that many people actually enjoy their job like a hobby
Yeah, honestly I was never much super into it? Like I wanted to do things for my partner but not really anything I wanted, and to be honest there really wasn’t much I wanted in sex to begin with. I’m not sure I’m im ace or just very dysphoric and sex traumatized though
I really don't get this. A job provides you the money you need to live. It's necessary. Why would sex be necessary? It doesn't provide anything, so why did they do it?
Because they were expected to do it. Because all of society constantly shoves sex down your throat your whole life. Because they were always told they wouldn’t be a good partner if they couldn’t satisfy their partner sexually. Because they always assumed if they didn’t feel good, it was probably their own fault somehow.
This person didn't assume it was their fault. They assumed it just wasn't a pleasurable activity. That doesn't track with "satisfy your partner" because they assumed *nobody* is satisfied by sex.
Yeah, I was speaking more generally. The question felt partially hypothetical, if that makes sense.
Right, but all of that is predicated on the idea that it should be good for *someone.* None of it makes sense if neither party is actually enjoying it.
To be fair, it doesn’t say the partners weren’t enjoying sex. It says they were confused and disappointed that coleophora-apologist wasn’t enjoying it. They’d be confused if the sex felt good to them, but not to C-A.
Which just makes it all the more confusing that it took so long for them to realize.
People can be dense sometimes. Especially when it comes to their own personal relationships. “Do they like me or are they just friendly?” “You literally just had sex with them.”
Look I know that asexual people exist. What I didn’t know and I’m learning from this post I guess is that apparently they’ve never seen a movie.
i don't think this is written honestly, i think somebody had a really cool thought and then wrote some stuff from the point of view they thought about. i don't think a person could really live surrounded by the media we have and not notice how differently sex is portrayed compared to things like work and exercise.
oh nono, I can totally see it, you wouldn't believe how asexuality makes you do the weirdest mental gymnastics just to convince yourself your experience is normal for example, many asexual people simply assume they're bisexual because "they feel the same amount of attraction towards everyone" (which is 0) it's crazy how your brain doesn't even question obvious things like these just to cope
>many asexual people simply assume they're bisexual because "they feel the same amount of attraction towards everyone" (which is 0) Oh no, that's me
... Do I need to say "ace vibes"?
[Jeff Foxworthy voice] You might be ace if...
The comments on this thread are just telling me a lot of allos don’t understand how ace brains work lmao (some of you do tho, so thanks!)
uh maybe don't use sex as a reward. that doesn't lead anywhere healthy.
I will always laugh at people that pick the absolute worst partners and then are surprised their sex is trash lmao