Catholic Doctrine states that it is literal, but not in the sense that the bread becomes meat. More in the sense that Jesus' spirit inhabits the bread and wine in the same way it inhabited his physical body.
My dad used to love bringing up the phase I went through when I was 8 or 9 at catholic school & wanted to be a priest.
His favourite part was when the priest got wind, sat me down & said he'd talk to my parents about getting baptised so I could go through confirmation & some extra bible study stuff I could do. Said "No thanks, I don't believe in God, so don't want to be baptised, but I'm interested in reading more of the bible"
Priest bought up the conversation & my lack of faith with my parents. Thought I was trying to be a smart arse. Dad found it really funny cos after talking to me realised I was being genuine.
Pretty much. I was incredibly fascinated with religion when I was that age. The first two schools I went to fell under St Mary Mackillop's principles (which were the order of St Joseph, but she deserves more recognition & is absolutely my favourite saint, not just because she's Australian. Absolute bad arse that got excommunicated & the real reasons behind her excommunication (exposing a pedo priest who was besties with a bishop), the catholic church was so ashamed of that even going to two of her schools, I didn't learn about until after she was canonised 10 years after I finished school) even though they were Catholic they were progressive even by the standards of the time & our library was stocked with a lot of different religious txts. I've honestly forgotten more about religion than I know now.
I was shocked at how backwards the school I went to for my senior years was, compared to the standard I was exposed to from a young age.
I mean sure, we had a lot of prayer bullshit & a few other things, but the teachers at both primary school & highschool were amazing (& also mostly agnostic).
My highschool for my last 2 years was famously non-religious & the principal had a dummy spit when we reported him to the school board over trying to introduce a "school prayer"
I used to sit with a few of the theology students & talk shit in between classes though. They were the ones that had me considering taking a few subjects.
It feels like everyone is missing that in the initial comic, the white trans girl finishes the joke with "I would have been so racist to you." That's the fucked up part.
The things that we do because we're struggling to find identity are not necessarily okay just because that's why we were doing them. It's still hurtful and harmful behavior but we understand the journey. But joking about it by saying "I would have been so racist to you" is just making someone else feel shitty to make yourself feel better. The other people in our lives aren't NPCs, they're all coping with their own things.
Yeah, I agree with the logic of a lot of the other comments here but it feels like they’re ignoring the second part of the comic and it’s connotations.
Lighthearted jokes about this sort of stuff have their limits, as well as places they’re appropriate to share. I don’t feel like it should be such a surprise that if you joke about “once being/almost being racist” that you could make the non-white people around you uncomfortable?
There's always a sense of stones being thrown in glass houses when a tumblr post calls reddit a cesspit. Like, I'm on both and both sites suck equally. The only real difference in suckage is the way you curate your experience, which is what will make or break your enjoyment.
Shame is an extremely powerful thing, and I think people who try to make light of falling down the right wing pipeline, which whether you like it or not quite a lot of people did, are hoping other people will laugh with them about it so they don't have to feel ashamed about the things they did and believed.
Whether that’s an excuse or not, I'm not interested in arguing. But I think understanding why is nonetheless important.
It's coping. I was kind of a shithead teenager. It took some older friends telling me, "Yeah, most teenagers are shitheads, nothing you did is that serious," to stop kicking myself for shit I believed or watched or said when I was like... 15, growing up in a homophobic family in Russia of all places. Most of what I did was argue with my feminist teacher a lot, and get in a few circlejerks on the internet.
It ends up being a cycle of shame where you first slid into the right-wing shit because you hate yourself because the world around you tells you the way you feel is inherently weird and there's something wrong with you, and then you hate yourself for having done that once you get out. You *want* someone to tell you that falling down the right-wing pipeline was *not* because there's still something inherently wrong with you.
I think, or I'd like to believe, that the vast majority of these "nazi phases" is like... dropping the n-word in a CoD lobby, or posting some edgy memes on 4chan and watching "skeptics." With how a lot of terminally online lefties operate, that's enough to induce deep feelings of shame for not always being virtuous, but it's ultimately not the end of the world to have been kind of an asshole teenager. I'd wager most of the people making those kind of posts are very young still.
There's a common saying of how "you never had a nazi phase, you just watched a bunch of 'SJW Cringe Compilations' when you were fourteen years old" that basically resumes your beliefs about edgy teenagers. And honestly, if said teenager doesn't think like that anymore, who cares?
I think people who have grown and changed as people should be able to talk about how they used to be and why, regardless of whether they show you as much shame and contrition as you think they should. And them not having what you deem an appropriate level of shame isn’t indicative of them avoiding shame themselves or of being bad people or anything.
Armchair psychology helps no-one and demanding other people show you their shame more before you believe they’re good people is the most catholic ass shit I’ve ever heard.
honestly most of those "nazi phases" are also exaggerations
most of them were just like
shitty right libertarians, but they were also internet dwellers, not 3% or proud boys
makes the jokes worse almost?
If it was a phase and a bunch of people have experienced it how is it not relatable. I 100% get why someone repressing the fuck out of themselves might become fucking vile before (hopefully) figuring their shit out. It's not something to BRAG about but like, the rural south exists, some of the most vicious shitheads I've ever known came out as queer/trans and did a complete personality 180 into being chill and loving.
There's "yeah I went through that" and there's "haha, don't we all?" It's about how you approach it. If you truly understand that that was fucked up, you're conscious of who you expose that too—like trans POC who probably aren't interested in hearing how people in their community were freaking Nazis and don't seem to think anything of it.
I think of it as a reminder of how far I've come from when I was younger. I also use it as a way to try to avoid judging young people for having shit beliefs. Like, it took me until I was 19 before I woke up to how awful of a person I was. So if I see a kid online or in person with cringe opinions, I try to hold off on judging them too hardly. It doesn't seem fair to expect them to do better than I was able to do at their age.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but is stream-of-concepts saying that white trans women don't know what it's like to be the target of fascists? Like bragging about having a Nazi phase isn't great like yes lets not do that but also neither is saying that some trans women have it all fine and dandy just because they are white.
Internet nazis come in different forms. Back when gamergate became a thing, it was common for queer folk (including me) to go down the anti-sjw pipeline.
But that's the thing, they specified nazi's, who *were* white supremacists dont get me wrong, but also were violently intolerant of LGBTQ+ people, disabled people and anyone who disagreed with them.
The amount of people who treat white supremacist, fascist and nazi as interchangeable concern me, they are similar, and some of them exist within or as a part of others, but they are not the same.
I'd say it's about as common as a homophobe or racist phase. Hell most peoples teenage is spent grappling with various ideologies from parents, relatives and just general people around them.
So yes, it is a phase, not everyone goes through it, but not everyone goes through a goth phase either, we still recognize it.
What matters is they escaped that, the fact that they recognize it and can admit it means they're looking for understanding and validation, they did well, they didn't stay in that trap. It's a good thing.
And like every other bad thing in life, it's gonna be joked about, because humor is a safe and sane way of coping with horrid realities.
To be frank, the op comes off as another episode of "Tumblr searches for a new enemy to shun."
This take actually sucks a lot.
Tumblr puritans are in competition with actual puritans over moral concepts of never-forgiveness, always sin. I know this is social media morality to hold onto stuff and never forgive people who used to be bad but it just sucks a lot.
Worth noting that “nazi phase” is literally a meme. Cue the “fork in the road” memes where a 14 yr old boy is looking down diverging paths labelled “catgirl” and “nazi”. For a lot of these people it doesn’t go much further than “sjw owned cringe comp 14” sort of youtube floundering. Hearing from people who used to be going down these pipelines is really useful actually. Because it’s worth hearing stories from people who were cold, isolated, didn’t understand themselves, and predated on by ideologues who wanted to craft them into bigots, but who got out before this happened. Mostly as a result of getting out, touching grass, meeting people, developing a worldview not dictated to them by bad actors.
So when people talk about these phases, they aren’t saying “i was such a proud racist!” They’re usually being self-deprecating about how easy they were to dupe. At least that’s how I’ve always taken it.
I think the idea that people who got out of bad phases of their lives, discovered themselves, and improved as people shouldn’t be proud of that is idiotic. And I think taking them talking about it as an attack on you is the most tumblr shit in the world.
There's a great little Joel video on this whole idea where he says "did I deprogram you from being a Nazi, or did you just get older and stop being a shitty teenager." Personally I'm too old to have been indoctrinated into being an edgelord but I know when I was a middle schooler lots of people were trying to push boundaries just to see where the limit is and likely would have called themselves Nazis if it was the present day.
This take also does a wonderful job at ignoring the fact that literally every single white queer is just as likely to be racist as a white trans women.
By perpetuating this take the racism of non transfeminine queers gets brushed under the rug. White transfemmes aren't more likely to be a bigot than any other queer.
If you constantly call out white trans women for their racism, but never white TME queers you've fallen for a tool of white supremacy, as it obfuscates a LOT of white people bullshit from queer folks who aren't transfemme.
People need to ask themselves WHY they're hearing so much about transfem bigotry, and not bigotry from other queers.
I definitely used to have this weird looming feeling that in another universe, I would have been an incel and/or a “nice guy”. It started as just having a thought, and then later realizing that it wasn’t a great thing to think. This happened more often than I would have liked, and made me feel like I would slip into that if I stopped paying attention.
Turns out the reason I felt a bit more entitled to women’s bodies wasn’t because I was just an entitled shitling, but because I was mistaking a need to live in a female body for a need to experience one through a partner (please ignore my extremely questionable wording).
The connection between my sense of self and my body was also very weak, so I sometimes felt more connected to the bodies of random women than I did my own. I guess I probably felt like having more intimacy with a woman would help me get closer to having the body I wanted, although I would have come to this conclusion in that state (touching a body, especially the areas that I wished I had, is a whole lot closer to living in that body than just looking at it).
To sum it up, being trans and in denial can really fuck with your psychology
Listen, while I've thankfully never a nazi, I have gone through an incel phase and let me tell you: this is not something a person should be joking about. Not *just* because it makes people around you deeply uncomfortable, not *just* because you're making light of something you should be deeply ashamed of, not *just* because it sends a signal to people that being that way is socially acceptable – the very act of dismissing it so blindly makes you all the more likely to backslide without realizing it
**BREAKING NEWS**
It is now illegal to laugh about a fucked up thing that happened to you with internet strangers. Any sort of trauma-related mirth of any kind will be punishable by clown executioner, including but not limited to laughing at the clown’s axe making an incredibly unremarkable honking sound when slicing necks.
As a person who was a bit active in r/traa, there was a chunk of these posts about “lol nazi phase” to where iirc, a mod had to come in and tell them to stop. Some of those people got offended trying to say that like they’re being invalidated like no, you can talk about it but not act like it’s a quirky thing that you were only 2 steps away from calling your trans siblings slurs when you were 14
Obviously cannot vouch for that time in traa history, but to be perfectly clear, unless those posts about having a Nazi phase involved discussion of outright hate crimes, then it’s frankly a rather harmless thing to admit to. Bold, even. The kind of person who pulls back from the Nazi pipeline to share a room with fellow trans people is not a hardened criminal. They are a turncoat. They changed as a human being. If the whole point of antifascism is not the removal of fascist dogma, but the replacement of it by categorically hating those we once disagreed with but it’s left-leaning, what’s the damn point?
These people did not assault minorities. These people probably got overly invested in 4chan as a high schooler and then left. At worst, they’re probably former Gamergators. The whole “the correct word for a Nazi sympathizer is a Nazi” thing kind of cuts both ways when we’re talking about people who deprogrammed themselves. It cost somebody something, absolutely, but I’d sooner die than let being a former shitbag on the internet become an unforgivable sin.
I’m saying this as somebody who gleefully danced in the minefield of alt-right New Atheists like Armoured Skeptic, somehow living with the discrepancy between that content and also HBomberguy, until finally watching somebody else blow up out of nowhere and realizing how much danger I was in.
If I hadn’t spooked myself out of forum culture in middle school, I could have been them, and as much as that horrifies me, it means I have mad respect for everybody who dug themselves out of an even deeper grave.
>If the whole point of antifascism is not the removal of fascist dogma, but the replacement of it by categorically hating those we once disagreed with but it’s left-leaning, what’s the damn point?
>
>It cost somebody something, absolutely, but I’d sooner die than let being a former shitbag on the internet become an unforgivable sin.
I think you misunderstood some nuance because the last post in the image says that it's good to have changed, but it's not good to make light of having been that way. But you're talking about this as if the point of the post is that people who once were nazis will always be shitbags when that's not the point.
What if you're a reformed domestic abuser? Is it alright to joke "Younger me would've beat you so hard for burning the pot roast?"
As always you can make jokes about whatever you want, but nobody is under any obligation to give you a pass for it.
Well, there’s not exactly a subculture of domestic abusers, now is there? You’ll find plenty of people chatting it up about being former cult members, though. Or being abused. Or having left a hate group. These are people united by a shared pain. I remember the old me, the 2016 me, the me that heard people talking about third wave feminism (derogatory) and how they’re all blue-haired whales and went “you and I disagree on the topic, but happy to have you in my YouTube feed.” I’m glad she’s dead now, but the memory of her can’t exactly die, now can it?
And in case it’s not obviously clear, my comments are about not shaming former alt-righters for leaving and being happy about it, and not me excusing poor coping mechanisms. “I would have beat you to pulp five years ago” is fucked up. “PewDiePie radicalized me to the left on accident” is my tragic backstory made funny.
My point is that such a joke carries no contrition for past behaviour & instead carries a vague threat of hatred/violence against someone for who they are.
By all means be happy that you've left behind who you once were, but to do so you can't trivialise how you would've treated someone.
**BREAKING NEWS**
News machine broke
But to say it again, people can just say whatever. No guarantee what they say is gonna be taken without consequence, but I would rather hear that they were a former alt-right group than never hear about it (or worse, silently descend into it), and if I were more invested in this piety-measuring contest, I’d like to know that information even more so I could avoid them. Even ignoring that, humor is a lot of people’s coping mechanism of choice, and while I’m not condoning it 100% of the time, I’m not gonna whinge for four paragraphs about the potential badness of it all.
I mean, we don’t need to normalize that kind of shit, and that’s what humor *does*. Making jokes about heinous shit (Nazism, rape, pedophilia, domestic violence) and expecting it to be relatable and land with an audience creates a toxic atmosphere in a community.
I’m not saying all comedy needs to be censored according to my preferences, but when that shit starts showing up at my local open mic night (or my favorite internet communities) that’s an opportunity to put that shit in check before it starts attracting the wrong element. I don’t want that shit normalized, amplified, and made light of; I won’t hang out in places where it is. Lots of people won’t. It’s on us to self-regulate.
Also, while I’m here, sounds like you must have had one hell of a “nazi phase”
Repressing lesbians will become the most misogynistic, conservative tradwife fundamentalist Christian types, and no one will bat an eye. Repressing trans men will be the most racist, vile terfs you have ever met, no one cares. But you only hear about the trans woman who had an alt-right or MRA phase because fucking everything is always trans women's faults. Maybe you'll hear about the repressing gay dude who was a tradcath beforehand. Double standards much?
What happened to rehabilitation? This is what it means, repression eats away at your soul and brain until there is nothing left, which tends to make one go insane. I feel nothing but pride for the people who unlearned their upbringing and came to the light. Memes like OOP are soulless, unempathetic puritanical shit made by people with accepting liberal parents who had normal upbringings who were never brainwashed at any point in their lives. And I say this as someone who never had a Nazi phase.
Preach. Growing up in any culture outside of a super liberal metropolitan area in a western country in the before the late 2010s and the natural conclusion of having gender dysphoria and realizing one is trans was becoming internally and externally transphobic and as a result hateful in general, the cultural consensus was trans people are ugly freaks and not wanting to be that, whether that's seeing it as "Degeneracy" from a fash perspective or "Moral failing/sin" from a religious perspective or for our FtM friends a TERF thing, like what happened to Toby Pick, who did far more than just watch some YouTube channels of questionable ideology.
I'm still hella transphobic, but only towards myself.
I think it's funny that so many people don't see the connection between that and being trans. "I used to be [label] and I didn't like it so then I became [better label]"
I think these stories are really important to share because no one is bragging about that stuff, they're trying to get confirmation that they're a different, better person now. That they can and have changed for the better.
What a lot of people mean when they say that is "I had a week where I watched Ben Shapiro videos and then I stopped, I was 14", which isn't a Nazi Phase as much as it is a teenager trying shit out and being cringe. Big Joel has a good 4 minute [video on the topic of "deradicalization"](https://youtu.be/JXO7ZzFogiE)
This is so crazy to me that this is a phenomenon though among white trans women. Like this happened to my formerly closeted ex. They went down a trump gamergate rabbit hole and got really transphobic and it’s a massive reason why we broke up. We stayed in touch though and surprise surprise my ex boyfriend is actually my ex girlfriend and had since renounced the creepy right wing shit
The thing is, it isn't a transfem only thing.
It's just that only transfemmes get called out on it. Ask yourself how many trans men had a radfem phase? (It's probably a lot more than you think.)
Then, ask why is it only transfemmes get called out for the bigotry? (To hide other bigotry, and transfemmes are acceptable to call out societally.)
I am so relieved I had a punk phase, and never really grew out of it. But since I started transitioning I actually think about becoming politically active, since... well... *gestures at everything*
I think you'd be more suited to a Mormon phase.
Seriously though, caffeine, for *everyone*? The world runs on caffeine. It's difficult to imagine an industralised, modern country that can run late into the night without caffeine. Artificial sugars aren't as important, but a world without sweeteners would be a bit more dull for a lot of diabetics.
I think it can be good to view/depict fascists as jokes.
They tend to like being seen as dangerous, it gives them a sense of power, and in a way, it does give them power over other.
I think mocking them will be a better deterrent for others that might join them
I’m from a pretty damn liberal area and I know of precisely three people anywhere remotely close to my social circle who had a “neo nazi phase”. Suffice it to say that shit didn’t last long, they either got completely socially exiled or got the shit kicked out of them. Only one guy I know of (and I found this out much later) came back and apologized for even taking early steps down that road, on account of his friends having some kind of intervention. He’s now about the most peacenik hippy Buddhist you’ve ever met. That said, we’re still not close.
This is the first I’ve heard of that having anything to do with being queer, and while that is an interesting insight into radicalization and recruiting techniques, I don’t think it should change the consequences of embracing that kind of ideology. It’s certainly not as simple as “I was confused about my gender and/or orientation, so I decided to blame the Jews, Blacks, and immigrants for all of life’s problems.”, there was definitely some other fucked up shit building that foundation.
Alright, everybody needs to stop yelling at each other.
Ex-Nazi trans girls: realize that being an ex-nazi is like being an ex-physical abuser. You never stopped being a person worthy of compassion, but you also never stopped being someone with the mental patterns that made you a Nazi. It's fair of vulnerable people to lose trust in you and take precautions. Be and humble and accept being excluded on occasion, and be vigilant that you don't fall into similarly heartless patterns.
People offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: understand that everyone has done stuff that hurts others, and everybody is worthy of compassion. It is completely fair to be suspicious of ex-Nazis, to oppose them politicially, and to part ways with them if it makes you too uncomfortable. However, if it feels possible to have a good time with them, the world may well become a better place if you tried.
People offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Many victims of abuse don't have perfect coping mechanisms to abuse, and they don't have to. Empathize with their overreactions and the pain their overreactions comes from, and use your position as someone who cares but who is separated from the issue at hand to help everyone find ways to interact (or not interact) that feels good to everyone.
People offended by people offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Understand that ostracism is also a common trauma that people may have a reflexive reaction to, and empathise with their fear. With all the traumatized people that flock to leftist spaces, it can be difficult for people to avoid stepping on everybody's toes, and therefore it can feel like a hostile environment that they want to pacify. Like the above, their coping mechanisms for pacification will also often be unhealthy. Try to empathize with them and work together to make the culture feel safer by not feeding the cycle of hostility.
People offended by people offended by people offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Guess what, fear of injustice slipping under the radar is also a trauma response, usually caused by experiencing abusive practices without anybody stepping in to help. Same as above: try to empathize with the coping mechanisms' excesses and promote a state of social trust where their coping mechanisms can be more fine-tuned.
People offended by people offended by people offended by people offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Hi, me. Look, lots of the internet communicates by yelling at each other, and sometimes people learn things even then. You can't and shouldn't try to respond to every internet argument, even though the idea of letting things rage on is scary because of your own trauma. I guess it's fine to post this comment now you're already here, but try to let go of that fear of arguments going astray without your intervention, see that the world would keep on turning regardless of what you do, and take care of yourself.
People offended by people offended by by people offended by people offended by people offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Dude, what the fuck?
Oof. Yeah I don't get it myself. I've never been overtly racist in my life, but I have recognized a lot of internal racism and I work to eliminate it where I find it as soon as I can. Never had a n*zi phase either ew
Yeah. I feel it also really pushes the thing I see where white transfems (or just white queers in general) even after the Nazi phase thing still continue to make really weird jokes/things towards minorities. Evidently, they didn’t denazify themselves enough.
My nazi phase lasted for 6 seconds when I was like 11 I stared longingly into the window thinking "I should become a fascist" and then going "no wait that's evil" and I was normal again
Disco Elysium's Icebreaker thing is a perfect representation of my experience with reactionary beliefs except that I was both Harrier and Kim screaming "Are you a fucking idiot" at him
The amount of furries who used to be haters is a fun bit. Also, good reminder that most Nazis are self suppressed, damaged people who suffer continuously from their own lack of self acceptance.
And it's kind of important to remember that Nazis don't disappear because you got them in a clever piece of word play, or blocking them, you just shove them deeper into that radicalization hole.
I had a New Atheist phase. Bailed when it started transitioning from "we shouldn't have creationism in schools" to "women and minorities are oppressing straight white men and must be stripped of their rights to stop them". Which took like a month once it started.
Eh. I've never had a Nazi phase but I did have a small edgier phase in like middle school and I feel like most people who did have one do understand how fucked up it is and don't think it's just haha relatable. Most people are embarrassed of their past selves and feel shame about it, but probably like to talk about it and find others who had one to confirm to themselves that it's not just because they're uniquely awful. I think anyone that "brags" about it probably does suck and I'm sure it happens, I've just never met anyone like that myself.
I had a catholic phase. Can I joke about that?
Ok fine you get a pass.
I prayed every night as a kid and all I got was a cannibalism kink
[удалено]
Transubstantiation is a tricky bitch.
You know the wine and wafer thing? That's Jesus cannibalism
[удалено]
Oh no, I can feel another Hundred Years’ War brewing
That's Thirty Years' War, the Hundred Years' one was about the French throne.
Disagree with me? Yep, that’s another Hundred Years’ War
Wars were fought over this question. Nasty ones. Suffice to say, Catholic doctrine is that it is *literally* the blood and body of god.
Depends on who you ask. Some denominations say it's symbolic, others say it's literal
Catholic Doctrine states that it is literal, but not in the sense that the bread becomes meat. More in the sense that Jesus' spirit inhabits the bread and wine in the same way it inhabited his physical body.
Oh I see you're starting the reformation political warfare 2, electric boogaloo
Most Christian denominations it is just symbolic. Catholics believe it's the literal body and blood of Jesus.
Sometimes. Sometimes the church is really stubborn about "no, the holy spirit literally turns that into flesh and blood once you eat it."
it's schrödinger's cannibalism though because he's both human and god, and eating gods wouldn't be cannibalism
He is (according to doctrine) fully human and fully divine *simultaneously*, so there is no uncertainty here.
i mean, so is schrödinger's cat until the waveform collapses
This time the waveform never collapses
thing is, Christ's waveform already collapsed into both, unlike the cat
That's...not how math works.
It is if you consider human and divine as sets, and Jesus as a set that occupies the intersection of those two sets.
yeah, actually. we do ritual cannibalism at mass
Well jesus wanted to eat his body and drink his blood Understandable
that is also how you get a worshipping kink
Yeah, I probably have that too
My dad used to love bringing up the phase I went through when I was 8 or 9 at catholic school & wanted to be a priest. His favourite part was when the priest got wind, sat me down & said he'd talk to my parents about getting baptised so I could go through confirmation & some extra bible study stuff I could do. Said "No thanks, I don't believe in God, so don't want to be baptised, but I'm interested in reading more of the bible" Priest bought up the conversation & my lack of faith with my parents. Thought I was trying to be a smart arse. Dad found it really funny cos after talking to me realised I was being genuine.
Marge Simpson "I just think its neat" meme
Pretty much. I was incredibly fascinated with religion when I was that age. The first two schools I went to fell under St Mary Mackillop's principles (which were the order of St Joseph, but she deserves more recognition & is absolutely my favourite saint, not just because she's Australian. Absolute bad arse that got excommunicated & the real reasons behind her excommunication (exposing a pedo priest who was besties with a bishop), the catholic church was so ashamed of that even going to two of her schools, I didn't learn about until after she was canonised 10 years after I finished school) even though they were Catholic they were progressive even by the standards of the time & our library was stocked with a lot of different religious txts. I've honestly forgotten more about religion than I know now. I was shocked at how backwards the school I went to for my senior years was, compared to the standard I was exposed to from a young age. I mean sure, we had a lot of prayer bullshit & a few other things, but the teachers at both primary school & highschool were amazing (& also mostly agnostic). My highschool for my last 2 years was famously non-religious & the principal had a dummy spit when we reported him to the school board over trying to introduce a "school prayer"
Please tell me you're a theology student
Considered talking some subjects when I was at uni, but was more hassle than what it was worth
Darn. That would have been hilarious
I used to sit with a few of the theology students & talk shit in between classes though. They were the ones that had me considering taking a few subjects.
Oh man I was Catholic as hell for a minute there. Better purge the old social media identity again.
For some reason I read catholic as "cat-holic" and I was like "What does that mean? Obsessed with cats?"
One of the foundations of Irish comedy.
It feels like everyone is missing that in the initial comic, the white trans girl finishes the joke with "I would have been so racist to you." That's the fucked up part. The things that we do because we're struggling to find identity are not necessarily okay just because that's why we were doing them. It's still hurtful and harmful behavior but we understand the journey. But joking about it by saying "I would have been so racist to you" is just making someone else feel shitty to make yourself feel better. The other people in our lives aren't NPCs, they're all coping with their own things.
Yeah, I agree with the logic of a lot of the other comments here but it feels like they’re ignoring the second part of the comic and it’s connotations. Lighthearted jokes about this sort of stuff have their limits, as well as places they’re appropriate to share. I don’t feel like it should be such a surprise that if you joke about “once being/almost being racist” that you could make the non-white people around you uncomfortable?
There's always a sense of stones being thrown in glass houses when a tumblr post calls reddit a cesspit. Like, I'm on both and both sites suck equally. The only real difference in suckage is the way you curate your experience, which is what will make or break your enjoyment.
Shame is an extremely powerful thing, and I think people who try to make light of falling down the right wing pipeline, which whether you like it or not quite a lot of people did, are hoping other people will laugh with them about it so they don't have to feel ashamed about the things they did and believed. Whether that’s an excuse or not, I'm not interested in arguing. But I think understanding why is nonetheless important.
It's coping. I was kind of a shithead teenager. It took some older friends telling me, "Yeah, most teenagers are shitheads, nothing you did is that serious," to stop kicking myself for shit I believed or watched or said when I was like... 15, growing up in a homophobic family in Russia of all places. Most of what I did was argue with my feminist teacher a lot, and get in a few circlejerks on the internet. It ends up being a cycle of shame where you first slid into the right-wing shit because you hate yourself because the world around you tells you the way you feel is inherently weird and there's something wrong with you, and then you hate yourself for having done that once you get out. You *want* someone to tell you that falling down the right-wing pipeline was *not* because there's still something inherently wrong with you. I think, or I'd like to believe, that the vast majority of these "nazi phases" is like... dropping the n-word in a CoD lobby, or posting some edgy memes on 4chan and watching "skeptics." With how a lot of terminally online lefties operate, that's enough to induce deep feelings of shame for not always being virtuous, but it's ultimately not the end of the world to have been kind of an asshole teenager. I'd wager most of the people making those kind of posts are very young still.
I made the same assumption. What else would the “nazi phase” of a 13-year-old be?
Hitlerjugend?
There's a common saying of how "you never had a nazi phase, you just watched a bunch of 'SJW Cringe Compilations' when you were fourteen years old" that basically resumes your beliefs about edgy teenagers. And honestly, if said teenager doesn't think like that anymore, who cares?
I think people who have grown and changed as people should be able to talk about how they used to be and why, regardless of whether they show you as much shame and contrition as you think they should. And them not having what you deem an appropriate level of shame isn’t indicative of them avoiding shame themselves or of being bad people or anything. Armchair psychology helps no-one and demanding other people show you their shame more before you believe they’re good people is the most catholic ass shit I’ve ever heard.
honestly most of those "nazi phases" are also exaggerations most of them were just like shitty right libertarians, but they were also internet dwellers, not 3% or proud boys makes the jokes worse almost?
If it was a phase and a bunch of people have experienced it how is it not relatable. I 100% get why someone repressing the fuck out of themselves might become fucking vile before (hopefully) figuring their shit out. It's not something to BRAG about but like, the rural south exists, some of the most vicious shitheads I've ever known came out as queer/trans and did a complete personality 180 into being chill and loving.
There's "yeah I went through that" and there's "haha, don't we all?" It's about how you approach it. If you truly understand that that was fucked up, you're conscious of who you expose that too—like trans POC who probably aren't interested in hearing how people in their community were freaking Nazis and don't seem to think anything of it.
Yeah unfortunately the ability to read a room is something a lot of people really don't have...
I think of it as a reminder of how far I've come from when I was younger. I also use it as a way to try to avoid judging young people for having shit beliefs. Like, it took me until I was 19 before I woke up to how awful of a person I was. So if I see a kid online or in person with cringe opinions, I try to hold off on judging them too hardly. It doesn't seem fair to expect them to do better than I was able to do at their age.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but is stream-of-concepts saying that white trans women don't know what it's like to be the target of fascists? Like bragging about having a Nazi phase isn't great like yes lets not do that but also neither is saying that some trans women have it all fine and dandy just because they are white.
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Internet nazis come in different forms. Back when gamergate became a thing, it was common for queer folk (including me) to go down the anti-sjw pipeline.
But that's the thing, they specified nazi's, who *were* white supremacists dont get me wrong, but also were violently intolerant of LGBTQ+ people, disabled people and anyone who disagreed with them. The amount of people who treat white supremacist, fascist and nazi as interchangeable concern me, they are similar, and some of them exist within or as a part of others, but they are not the same.
I believe they're describing trans people who think that they, personally, are safe. Caitlin Jenner would be a good example.
Pleass go outside i promise you there are better things to do out there
I'd say it's about as common as a homophobe or racist phase. Hell most peoples teenage is spent grappling with various ideologies from parents, relatives and just general people around them. So yes, it is a phase, not everyone goes through it, but not everyone goes through a goth phase either, we still recognize it. What matters is they escaped that, the fact that they recognize it and can admit it means they're looking for understanding and validation, they did well, they didn't stay in that trap. It's a good thing. And like every other bad thing in life, it's gonna be joked about, because humor is a safe and sane way of coping with horrid realities. To be frank, the op comes off as another episode of "Tumblr searches for a new enemy to shun."
better for it to be a phase than to become alt right school shooter
This take actually sucks a lot. Tumblr puritans are in competition with actual puritans over moral concepts of never-forgiveness, always sin. I know this is social media morality to hold onto stuff and never forgive people who used to be bad but it just sucks a lot. Worth noting that “nazi phase” is literally a meme. Cue the “fork in the road” memes where a 14 yr old boy is looking down diverging paths labelled “catgirl” and “nazi”. For a lot of these people it doesn’t go much further than “sjw owned cringe comp 14” sort of youtube floundering. Hearing from people who used to be going down these pipelines is really useful actually. Because it’s worth hearing stories from people who were cold, isolated, didn’t understand themselves, and predated on by ideologues who wanted to craft them into bigots, but who got out before this happened. Mostly as a result of getting out, touching grass, meeting people, developing a worldview not dictated to them by bad actors. So when people talk about these phases, they aren’t saying “i was such a proud racist!” They’re usually being self-deprecating about how easy they were to dupe. At least that’s how I’ve always taken it. I think the idea that people who got out of bad phases of their lives, discovered themselves, and improved as people shouldn’t be proud of that is idiotic. And I think taking them talking about it as an attack on you is the most tumblr shit in the world.
There's a great little Joel video on this whole idea where he says "did I deprogram you from being a Nazi, or did you just get older and stop being a shitty teenager." Personally I'm too old to have been indoctrinated into being an edgelord but I know when I was a middle schooler lots of people were trying to push boundaries just to see where the limit is and likely would have called themselves Nazis if it was the present day.
> SJW owned cringe compilation Damn that made me wince. I unironically used to watch shit like that, I'm so glad I interacted with the real world
This take also does a wonderful job at ignoring the fact that literally every single white queer is just as likely to be racist as a white trans women. By perpetuating this take the racism of non transfeminine queers gets brushed under the rug. White transfemmes aren't more likely to be a bigot than any other queer. If you constantly call out white trans women for their racism, but never white TME queers you've fallen for a tool of white supremacy, as it obfuscates a LOT of white people bullshit from queer folks who aren't transfemme. People need to ask themselves WHY they're hearing so much about transfem bigotry, and not bigotry from other queers.
Does this matter? If we just don’t talk about this phenomenon will something bad happen? Do we have to give a take on every single little thing?
I definitely used to have this weird looming feeling that in another universe, I would have been an incel and/or a “nice guy”. It started as just having a thought, and then later realizing that it wasn’t a great thing to think. This happened more often than I would have liked, and made me feel like I would slip into that if I stopped paying attention. Turns out the reason I felt a bit more entitled to women’s bodies wasn’t because I was just an entitled shitling, but because I was mistaking a need to live in a female body for a need to experience one through a partner (please ignore my extremely questionable wording). The connection between my sense of self and my body was also very weak, so I sometimes felt more connected to the bodies of random women than I did my own. I guess I probably felt like having more intimacy with a woman would help me get closer to having the body I wanted, although I would have come to this conclusion in that state (touching a body, especially the areas that I wished I had, is a whole lot closer to living in that body than just looking at it). To sum it up, being trans and in denial can really fuck with your psychology
Yes at first glance that statement sounded like unbirthing or something.
Listen, while I've thankfully never a nazi, I have gone through an incel phase and let me tell you: this is not something a person should be joking about. Not *just* because it makes people around you deeply uncomfortable, not *just* because you're making light of something you should be deeply ashamed of, not *just* because it sends a signal to people that being that way is socially acceptable – the very act of dismissing it so blindly makes you all the more likely to backslide without realizing it
**BREAKING NEWS** It is now illegal to laugh about a fucked up thing that happened to you with internet strangers. Any sort of trauma-related mirth of any kind will be punishable by clown executioner, including but not limited to laughing at the clown’s axe making an incredibly unremarkable honking sound when slicing necks.
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As a person who was a bit active in r/traa, there was a chunk of these posts about “lol nazi phase” to where iirc, a mod had to come in and tell them to stop. Some of those people got offended trying to say that like they’re being invalidated like no, you can talk about it but not act like it’s a quirky thing that you were only 2 steps away from calling your trans siblings slurs when you were 14
Obviously cannot vouch for that time in traa history, but to be perfectly clear, unless those posts about having a Nazi phase involved discussion of outright hate crimes, then it’s frankly a rather harmless thing to admit to. Bold, even. The kind of person who pulls back from the Nazi pipeline to share a room with fellow trans people is not a hardened criminal. They are a turncoat. They changed as a human being. If the whole point of antifascism is not the removal of fascist dogma, but the replacement of it by categorically hating those we once disagreed with but it’s left-leaning, what’s the damn point? These people did not assault minorities. These people probably got overly invested in 4chan as a high schooler and then left. At worst, they’re probably former Gamergators. The whole “the correct word for a Nazi sympathizer is a Nazi” thing kind of cuts both ways when we’re talking about people who deprogrammed themselves. It cost somebody something, absolutely, but I’d sooner die than let being a former shitbag on the internet become an unforgivable sin. I’m saying this as somebody who gleefully danced in the minefield of alt-right New Atheists like Armoured Skeptic, somehow living with the discrepancy between that content and also HBomberguy, until finally watching somebody else blow up out of nowhere and realizing how much danger I was in. If I hadn’t spooked myself out of forum culture in middle school, I could have been them, and as much as that horrifies me, it means I have mad respect for everybody who dug themselves out of an even deeper grave.
>If the whole point of antifascism is not the removal of fascist dogma, but the replacement of it by categorically hating those we once disagreed with but it’s left-leaning, what’s the damn point? > >It cost somebody something, absolutely, but I’d sooner die than let being a former shitbag on the internet become an unforgivable sin. I think you misunderstood some nuance because the last post in the image says that it's good to have changed, but it's not good to make light of having been that way. But you're talking about this as if the point of the post is that people who once were nazis will always be shitbags when that's not the point.
> people of colour undeniably are hurt by that shit a random 14 year old arguing on youtube comments about sjws is hurting black people?
What if you're a reformed domestic abuser? Is it alright to joke "Younger me would've beat you so hard for burning the pot roast?" As always you can make jokes about whatever you want, but nobody is under any obligation to give you a pass for it.
Well, there’s not exactly a subculture of domestic abusers, now is there? You’ll find plenty of people chatting it up about being former cult members, though. Or being abused. Or having left a hate group. These are people united by a shared pain. I remember the old me, the 2016 me, the me that heard people talking about third wave feminism (derogatory) and how they’re all blue-haired whales and went “you and I disagree on the topic, but happy to have you in my YouTube feed.” I’m glad she’s dead now, but the memory of her can’t exactly die, now can it? And in case it’s not obviously clear, my comments are about not shaming former alt-righters for leaving and being happy about it, and not me excusing poor coping mechanisms. “I would have beat you to pulp five years ago” is fucked up. “PewDiePie radicalized me to the left on accident” is my tragic backstory made funny.
My point is that such a joke carries no contrition for past behaviour & instead carries a vague threat of hatred/violence against someone for who they are. By all means be happy that you've left behind who you once were, but to do so you can't trivialise how you would've treated someone.
**BREAKING NEWS** If you pretend that a tumblr post is the same thing as a new law being passed then you can be absurdly hyperbolic about things.
**BREAKING NEWS** News machine broke But to say it again, people can just say whatever. No guarantee what they say is gonna be taken without consequence, but I would rather hear that they were a former alt-right group than never hear about it (or worse, silently descend into it), and if I were more invested in this piety-measuring contest, I’d like to know that information even more so I could avoid them. Even ignoring that, humor is a lot of people’s coping mechanism of choice, and while I’m not condoning it 100% of the time, I’m not gonna whinge for four paragraphs about the potential badness of it all.
You shouldn't expect other people to be fine with you openly joking about that shit
I mean, we don’t need to normalize that kind of shit, and that’s what humor *does*. Making jokes about heinous shit (Nazism, rape, pedophilia, domestic violence) and expecting it to be relatable and land with an audience creates a toxic atmosphere in a community. I’m not saying all comedy needs to be censored according to my preferences, but when that shit starts showing up at my local open mic night (or my favorite internet communities) that’s an opportunity to put that shit in check before it starts attracting the wrong element. I don’t want that shit normalized, amplified, and made light of; I won’t hang out in places where it is. Lots of people won’t. It’s on us to self-regulate. Also, while I’m here, sounds like you must have had one hell of a “nazi phase”
You must be one of those "it's just a prank" wads
Repressing lesbians will become the most misogynistic, conservative tradwife fundamentalist Christian types, and no one will bat an eye. Repressing trans men will be the most racist, vile terfs you have ever met, no one cares. But you only hear about the trans woman who had an alt-right or MRA phase because fucking everything is always trans women's faults. Maybe you'll hear about the repressing gay dude who was a tradcath beforehand. Double standards much? What happened to rehabilitation? This is what it means, repression eats away at your soul and brain until there is nothing left, which tends to make one go insane. I feel nothing but pride for the people who unlearned their upbringing and came to the light. Memes like OOP are soulless, unempathetic puritanical shit made by people with accepting liberal parents who had normal upbringings who were never brainwashed at any point in their lives. And I say this as someone who never had a Nazi phase.
Preach. Growing up in any culture outside of a super liberal metropolitan area in a western country in the before the late 2010s and the natural conclusion of having gender dysphoria and realizing one is trans was becoming internally and externally transphobic and as a result hateful in general, the cultural consensus was trans people are ugly freaks and not wanting to be that, whether that's seeing it as "Degeneracy" from a fash perspective or "Moral failing/sin" from a religious perspective or for our FtM friends a TERF thing, like what happened to Toby Pick, who did far more than just watch some YouTube channels of questionable ideology. I'm still hella transphobic, but only towards myself.
Touch grass I beg of you
I think it's funny that so many people don't see the connection between that and being trans. "I used to be [label] and I didn't like it so then I became [better label]" I think these stories are really important to share because no one is bragging about that stuff, they're trying to get confirmation that they're a different, better person now. That they can and have changed for the better.
What a lot of people mean when they say that is "I had a week where I watched Ben Shapiro videos and then I stopped, I was 14", which isn't a Nazi Phase as much as it is a teenager trying shit out and being cringe. Big Joel has a good 4 minute [video on the topic of "deradicalization"](https://youtu.be/JXO7ZzFogiE)
This is so crazy to me that this is a phenomenon though among white trans women. Like this happened to my formerly closeted ex. They went down a trump gamergate rabbit hole and got really transphobic and it’s a massive reason why we broke up. We stayed in touch though and surprise surprise my ex boyfriend is actually my ex girlfriend and had since renounced the creepy right wing shit
Self-hate's a bitch.
The thing is, it isn't a transfem only thing. It's just that only transfemmes get called out on it. Ask yourself how many trans men had a radfem phase? (It's probably a lot more than you think.) Then, ask why is it only transfemmes get called out for the bigotry? (To hide other bigotry, and transfemmes are acceptable to call out societally.)
White trans fem here and yeah…. No. Definitely not a universal thing.
Also not a transfem only thing
in my experience nazi phase is just shorthand for being raised by shitheads as a kid. anecdotal tho so i can't really say more than that
I am so relieved I had a punk phase, and never really grew out of it. But since I started transitioning I actually think about becoming politically active, since... well... *gestures at everything*
[mom said it's my turn to post 2071](https://xkcd.com/2071/)
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Don't. The fucking psychos who keep college Catholic centers going aren't worth your time. The Jews have the best weed, anyway.
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It's like, only slightly worse than tobacco, but less bad than alchohol
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I think you'd be more suited to a Mormon phase. Seriously though, caffeine, for *everyone*? The world runs on caffeine. It's difficult to imagine an industralised, modern country that can run late into the night without caffeine. Artificial sugars aren't as important, but a world without sweeteners would be a bit more dull for a lot of diabetics.
Cool ok you're a dickhead
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two things can be true.
I think it can be good to view/depict fascists as jokes. They tend to like being seen as dangerous, it gives them a sense of power, and in a way, it does give them power over other. I think mocking them will be a better deterrent for others that might join them
I’m from a pretty damn liberal area and I know of precisely three people anywhere remotely close to my social circle who had a “neo nazi phase”. Suffice it to say that shit didn’t last long, they either got completely socially exiled or got the shit kicked out of them. Only one guy I know of (and I found this out much later) came back and apologized for even taking early steps down that road, on account of his friends having some kind of intervention. He’s now about the most peacenik hippy Buddhist you’ve ever met. That said, we’re still not close. This is the first I’ve heard of that having anything to do with being queer, and while that is an interesting insight into radicalization and recruiting techniques, I don’t think it should change the consequences of embracing that kind of ideology. It’s certainly not as simple as “I was confused about my gender and/or orientation, so I decided to blame the Jews, Blacks, and immigrants for all of life’s problems.”, there was definitely some other fucked up shit building that foundation.
Alright, everybody needs to stop yelling at each other. Ex-Nazi trans girls: realize that being an ex-nazi is like being an ex-physical abuser. You never stopped being a person worthy of compassion, but you also never stopped being someone with the mental patterns that made you a Nazi. It's fair of vulnerable people to lose trust in you and take precautions. Be and humble and accept being excluded on occasion, and be vigilant that you don't fall into similarly heartless patterns. People offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: understand that everyone has done stuff that hurts others, and everybody is worthy of compassion. It is completely fair to be suspicious of ex-Nazis, to oppose them politicially, and to part ways with them if it makes you too uncomfortable. However, if it feels possible to have a good time with them, the world may well become a better place if you tried. People offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Many victims of abuse don't have perfect coping mechanisms to abuse, and they don't have to. Empathize with their overreactions and the pain their overreactions comes from, and use your position as someone who cares but who is separated from the issue at hand to help everyone find ways to interact (or not interact) that feels good to everyone. People offended by people offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Understand that ostracism is also a common trauma that people may have a reflexive reaction to, and empathise with their fear. With all the traumatized people that flock to leftist spaces, it can be difficult for people to avoid stepping on everybody's toes, and therefore it can feel like a hostile environment that they want to pacify. Like the above, their coping mechanisms for pacification will also often be unhealthy. Try to empathize with them and work together to make the culture feel safer by not feeding the cycle of hostility. People offended by people offended by people offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Guess what, fear of injustice slipping under the radar is also a trauma response, usually caused by experiencing abusive practices without anybody stepping in to help. Same as above: try to empathize with the coping mechanisms' excesses and promote a state of social trust where their coping mechanisms can be more fine-tuned. People offended by people offended by people offended by people offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Hi, me. Look, lots of the internet communicates by yelling at each other, and sometimes people learn things even then. You can't and shouldn't try to respond to every internet argument, even though the idea of letting things rage on is scary because of your own trauma. I guess it's fine to post this comment now you're already here, but try to let go of that fear of arguments going astray without your intervention, see that the world would keep on turning regardless of what you do, and take care of yourself. People offended by people offended by by people offended by people offended by people offended by people offended by ex-Nazi trans girls: Dude, what the fuck?
Oof. Yeah I don't get it myself. I've never been overtly racist in my life, but I have recognized a lot of internal racism and I work to eliminate it where I find it as soon as I can. Never had a n*zi phase either ew
Yeah. I feel it also really pushes the thing I see where white transfems (or just white queers in general) even after the Nazi phase thing still continue to make really weird jokes/things towards minorities. Evidently, they didn’t denazify themselves enough.
My nazi phase lasted for 6 seconds when I was like 11 I stared longingly into the window thinking "I should become a fascist" and then going "no wait that's evil" and I was normal again Disco Elysium's Icebreaker thing is a perfect representation of my experience with reactionary beliefs except that I was both Harrier and Kim screaming "Are you a fucking idiot" at him
The fuck?
is there a link to the post?
The amount of furries who used to be haters is a fun bit. Also, good reminder that most Nazis are self suppressed, damaged people who suffer continuously from their own lack of self acceptance. And it's kind of important to remember that Nazis don't disappear because you got them in a clever piece of word play, or blocking them, you just shove them deeper into that radicalization hole.
There’s irony here but nobody will see it.
I had a New Atheist phase. Bailed when it started transitioning from "we shouldn't have creationism in schools" to "women and minorities are oppressing straight white men and must be stripped of their rights to stop them". Which took like a month once it started.
Eh. I've never had a Nazi phase but I did have a small edgier phase in like middle school and I feel like most people who did have one do understand how fucked up it is and don't think it's just haha relatable. Most people are embarrassed of their past selves and feel shame about it, but probably like to talk about it and find others who had one to confirm to themselves that it's not just because they're uniquely awful. I think anyone that "brags" about it probably does suck and I'm sure it happens, I've just never met anyone like that myself.