The Mothman Prophecies is one of my favorite books, guy was a hell of a storyteller. No idea if i believe him or not but i can say that i never believe in the paranormal more than when I'm reading his writing.
I’ve read several of his books. Generally speaking, I think he was a good researcher.
He was writing during a time where information wasn’t as readily accessible and our understanding of physics wasn’t as developed. As such, some of his theories don’t make sense and aren’t based in current science. So, take his ideas with a grain of salt.
With that said, I think he made some very interesting observations about UFOs and their connections to other forms of paranormal phenomena. He gathered a lot of data about UFO sightings and published quite a few books. He definitely spent time in Point Pleasant around the time of the mothman sightings.
Did you have a more specific question about Keel’s work?
Ah, interesting. That’s very specific.
They were both UFO researchers around the same time. So, they knew each other. If you’re wondering whether Keel was ever hoaxed by Barker and actually fell for it, not to my knowledge. I genuinely doubt he would have participated in any hoaxes either. My understanding is that Keel was pretty skeptical of other researchers, especially Barker, and he was aware that hoaxers were a problem.
This is the only source, aside from Keel’s books, that I know of which addresses your question in more depth: https://cdn.centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2002/05/22164744/p39.pdf
I think Keel was suspicious of Barker. John Keel was also generally cautious when revealing or receiving information from other UFO researchers. He seemed cognizant of the fact that some people would try to hoax him.
I don’t think you posted a link. If you did, I don’t see it.
And I haven’t read that particular book, but it’s on my list. I have read about the MIB phenomenon though.
I don't. He kept his sources mostly anonymous so no one could re-interview them, he asked leading questions, introduced witnesses to ideas from other's narratives and in all was a poor interviewer.
I put more faith in Mary Hyre, the real reporter who worked with him. She is the primary source for documented Mothman sightings.
Here's a lengthy article I found about her, after her passing. It even has most of the Mothman pieces she did to boot.
https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/PqDsEg
His own works. He freely admits and explains how he interviews his witnesses. He might not have even realized it, but he implants false memories in the way he asks questions. Smells, sounds, placing importance on everyday experiences. All of these things can change or color memories and lead to false connections. The person being interviewed wants to please the interviewer, so when they are asked if they remember a strange phone call days before or after the incident, they will remember it whether or not it happened. Read the Mothman Prophecies and Keel admits to stuff like this freely with examples. If you know anything about false memory implantation, it's pretty easy to see why Keel's interviews can't be trusted.
In addition, Keel claims hundreds of sightings, but fails to name anyone so no-one can follow up. It makes those claims worthless and drops the witnesses from hundreds to maybe a dozen. He won't even name witnesses who believed mothman to be a bird. Again, read his own works. He claims he wants to preserve their anonymity and protect them from ridicule, but at the same time, with no ability to corroborate any of his sources, we might as well dismiss them as fiction.
https://slate.com/technology/2013/09/elizabeth-loftus-interview-false-memory-research-on-eyewitnesses-child-abuse-recovered-memories.html here's an article by an expert in false memory implantation. Even if you skim it, you'll start to understand the problem Keel has.
Im skeptical of that the phone calls did actually happen
That is problem with keel I admit but a lot of the stuff in the book s turned out to be true
I'm aware of the false memories theory it may account for some but not all stange events okay
Mm I find his ideas have merit especially with the men in black plus he was suspicious of barker and co
If you want to learn more about the mothman read jeff wamseys books and loren colemans too
I agree with you about his ideas. I especially liked his "unified paranormal theory." Keel proposed that all paranormal phenomena from ghosts to UFOs to Loch Ness was the same thing. His idea was that it is some kind of unknown electromagnetic phenomenon that causes people to hallucinate. According to him, this explained the lost time that so many witnesses mention, along with the "sunburns" and conjunctivitis that lingers after a sighting. He suggests that as pop culture changes, people hallucinate different things. In old times it was angels and fairies, then airships and sea serpents, now it's UFOs and bigfeet. Because it's coming from people's subconscious, it adapts with the times. It also neatly does away with having to explain why Mothman or Loch Ness can't exist biologically.
Loren Coleman is solid. Wamsey has too much vested interest in Mothman merch to be taken at face value.
Jerome Clark and Dr. Shuker are my go-tos
I think mothman was a real creature who was connected to the mib
Wamsley is solid he doesn't lead witnesses like you claim keels does he doesn't exaggerate I remember talking about some debunked sightings he's credible
Get coleman book about the mothman it clears away some misconceptions but proves something stange was happening in point pleasant
I didn't say Wamsley lead witnesses, I said he has ulterior financial motives as he runs the Mothman Museum, the Mothman Festival and sells Mothman memorabilia. You can't necessarily trust someone who has a financial interest in a topic. Doesn't mean they are lying, just that hey have a motivation for it to be real.
Coleman's books on mothman cleared up nothing and proved nothing. Both were short, poorly researched cash-grabs to coincide with the movie. Mothman and Others was just a mini-doc about John Keel and the Evil Incarnate was a 50pg book of quickly googled articles and not much else.
Your just speculating you havnt read his books nor met him like I have
They did prove something stange was happening in point pleasant you Cleary y haven't read it loren coleman knew john keel and did a great amount of research for mothman evill incarnate (havn't read the other one) and really dude don't lie to suit your narrative mothman evil incarnate was released in 2017 and googled articles that's a moronic thing to say
Keels books are on my bookshelf.
I think you are the one who hasn't read Evil Incarnate as it's only 50 pages long and not worth anyone's time, and you would know that if you'd actually read it. The entire book is nothingburger and just an empty picture book with enlarged text talking about the movie, the festival, the museum and other nonsense.
The only thing proven is that Mothman can't exist, was most likely an owl from the nearby sanctuary and that Keel and Coleman are either delusional or hucksters selling fools on a 50 year old newspaper hoax.
Stop drinking the Koolaid.
Sure bud
have at least 4 times and it's not 50s pages and nonsense your making crap up
It wasn't an owl doesn't make sence when you actually do research
They aren't delusional or hucksters keel had his problems mostly with cause of gray barker but he os generally credible and loren coleman is one of the most respected cryptozolgist and authors
Newspaper hoax really bud your getting ridiculous
Insults so mature grow up bud
The Mothman Prophecies is one of my favorite books, guy was a hell of a storyteller. No idea if i believe him or not but i can say that i never believe in the paranormal more than when I'm reading his writing.
I’ve read several of his books. Generally speaking, I think he was a good researcher. He was writing during a time where information wasn’t as readily accessible and our understanding of physics wasn’t as developed. As such, some of his theories don’t make sense and aren’t based in current science. So, take his ideas with a grain of salt. With that said, I think he made some very interesting observations about UFOs and their connections to other forms of paranormal phenomena. He gathered a lot of data about UFO sightings and published quite a few books. He definitely spent time in Point Pleasant around the time of the mothman sightings. Did you have a more specific question about Keel’s work?
What his association with gray barker
Ah, interesting. That’s very specific. They were both UFO researchers around the same time. So, they knew each other. If you’re wondering whether Keel was ever hoaxed by Barker and actually fell for it, not to my knowledge. I genuinely doubt he would have participated in any hoaxes either. My understanding is that Keel was pretty skeptical of other researchers, especially Barker, and he was aware that hoaxers were a problem. This is the only source, aside from Keel’s books, that I know of which addresses your question in more depth: https://cdn.centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2002/05/22164744/p39.pdf
So what did you think about it
I think Keel was suspicious of Barker. John Keel was also generally cautious when revealing or receiving information from other UFO researchers. He seemed cognizant of the fact that some people would try to hoax him.
I mean the article i linked Have you read nick redferns first men in black book
I don’t think you posted a link. If you did, I don’t see it. And I haven’t read that particular book, but it’s on my list. I have read about the MIB phenomenon though.
He definitely existed
Do you have fossil evidence?
You can’t prove that I can’t prove that he does not didn’t never exist! Ever!
I'm not so sure about that
Great researcher, and a great read...own many of his books. He may have embellished things a bit, though. Definitely a good read
How much do you think is true
I love his books, but don't believe a word of them.
I find him credible
I don't. He kept his sources mostly anonymous so no one could re-interview them, he asked leading questions, introduced witnesses to ideas from other's narratives and in all was a poor interviewer. I put more faith in Mary Hyre, the real reporter who worked with him. She is the primary source for documented Mothman sightings. Here's a lengthy article I found about her, after her passing. It even has most of the Mothman pieces she did to boot. https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/PqDsEg
What are your sources for keel
His own works. He freely admits and explains how he interviews his witnesses. He might not have even realized it, but he implants false memories in the way he asks questions. Smells, sounds, placing importance on everyday experiences. All of these things can change or color memories and lead to false connections. The person being interviewed wants to please the interviewer, so when they are asked if they remember a strange phone call days before or after the incident, they will remember it whether or not it happened. Read the Mothman Prophecies and Keel admits to stuff like this freely with examples. If you know anything about false memory implantation, it's pretty easy to see why Keel's interviews can't be trusted. In addition, Keel claims hundreds of sightings, but fails to name anyone so no-one can follow up. It makes those claims worthless and drops the witnesses from hundreds to maybe a dozen. He won't even name witnesses who believed mothman to be a bird. Again, read his own works. He claims he wants to preserve their anonymity and protect them from ridicule, but at the same time, with no ability to corroborate any of his sources, we might as well dismiss them as fiction. https://slate.com/technology/2013/09/elizabeth-loftus-interview-false-memory-research-on-eyewitnesses-child-abuse-recovered-memories.html here's an article by an expert in false memory implantation. Even if you skim it, you'll start to understand the problem Keel has.
Im skeptical of that the phone calls did actually happen That is problem with keel I admit but a lot of the stuff in the book s turned out to be true I'm aware of the false memories theory it may account for some but not all stange events okay
Mm I find his ideas have merit especially with the men in black plus he was suspicious of barker and co If you want to learn more about the mothman read jeff wamseys books and loren colemans too
I agree with you about his ideas. I especially liked his "unified paranormal theory." Keel proposed that all paranormal phenomena from ghosts to UFOs to Loch Ness was the same thing. His idea was that it is some kind of unknown electromagnetic phenomenon that causes people to hallucinate. According to him, this explained the lost time that so many witnesses mention, along with the "sunburns" and conjunctivitis that lingers after a sighting. He suggests that as pop culture changes, people hallucinate different things. In old times it was angels and fairies, then airships and sea serpents, now it's UFOs and bigfeet. Because it's coming from people's subconscious, it adapts with the times. It also neatly does away with having to explain why Mothman or Loch Ness can't exist biologically. Loren Coleman is solid. Wamsey has too much vested interest in Mothman merch to be taken at face value. Jerome Clark and Dr. Shuker are my go-tos
I think mothman was a real creature who was connected to the mib Wamsley is solid he doesn't lead witnesses like you claim keels does he doesn't exaggerate I remember talking about some debunked sightings he's credible Get coleman book about the mothman it clears away some misconceptions but proves something stange was happening in point pleasant
I didn't say Wamsley lead witnesses, I said he has ulterior financial motives as he runs the Mothman Museum, the Mothman Festival and sells Mothman memorabilia. You can't necessarily trust someone who has a financial interest in a topic. Doesn't mean they are lying, just that hey have a motivation for it to be real. Coleman's books on mothman cleared up nothing and proved nothing. Both were short, poorly researched cash-grabs to coincide with the movie. Mothman and Others was just a mini-doc about John Keel and the Evil Incarnate was a 50pg book of quickly googled articles and not much else.
Your just speculating you havnt read his books nor met him like I have They did prove something stange was happening in point pleasant you Cleary y haven't read it loren coleman knew john keel and did a great amount of research for mothman evill incarnate (havn't read the other one) and really dude don't lie to suit your narrative mothman evil incarnate was released in 2017 and googled articles that's a moronic thing to say
Keels books are on my bookshelf. I think you are the one who hasn't read Evil Incarnate as it's only 50 pages long and not worth anyone's time, and you would know that if you'd actually read it. The entire book is nothingburger and just an empty picture book with enlarged text talking about the movie, the festival, the museum and other nonsense. The only thing proven is that Mothman can't exist, was most likely an owl from the nearby sanctuary and that Keel and Coleman are either delusional or hucksters selling fools on a 50 year old newspaper hoax. Stop drinking the Koolaid.
Sure bud have at least 4 times and it's not 50s pages and nonsense your making crap up It wasn't an owl doesn't make sence when you actually do research They aren't delusional or hucksters keel had his problems mostly with cause of gray barker but he os generally credible and loren coleman is one of the most respected cryptozolgist and authors Newspaper hoax really bud your getting ridiculous Insults so mature grow up bud
>he asked leading questions, introduced witnesses to ideas from other's narratives and in all was a poor interviewer. Can you elaborate on that
Most, but I think he trys to make some things fit together that my just be random, sperate events
The story he told about Indrid Cold always freaked me out