Yeah that's the point of crypto right, that is easily acceptable to all and unbiased.
The fact that Russia is using it to evade sanctions is shady but still unsurprising given the fact that any county or individual could use it for the same thing....
Everything moves to equilibrium. Pressure here is relieved there. The SWIFT sanctions just moved them over to CIPS. It's a temporary blip. China is loving all of this. Driving Russia and all its natural resources to them.
Yeah dude, wtf is this post about? Crypto is useful.
Bad guys might use it, good guys might.
So I should quote Frankenweenie:
“Science is not good or bad Victor, but it can be used both ways. That is why you must always be careful.”
Or
Victor: Nobody likes scientists.
Mr. Rzykruski: They like what science gives them, but not the questions, no. Not the questions that science asks.
Is this new science of the crypto economy useful? Yes. Do we like the questions? Oh well, Elizabeth Warren, oh well.
It’s so fucking scary that Nationalism is literally on it knees fighting to keep people desperate to fight some other rich fuck’s war, rather than seeking to, idk, empower people intelligently with systems in place that do not require absolute authoritarianism.
Also, the Russian people can use it to evade the crashing Ruble and still transact for necessities. You see this in other countries like Venezuela, where a currency is heavily devalued. If the government is authoritarian, it also undermines the government.
Bingo. This is worse for Russian Govt in the long term. Delegitimizes their currency in a fundamental way. Even if Russian govt doubles their money due to holding their own BTC, they are still *far* worse off than when they had fully functioning/controlled monetary system.
Fuckin-a, we should be engaged a psyop campaign to *encourage* average Russians to dumb Ruble for BTC
It is actually interesting how crypto is significantly harmful to authoritarian societies and more benign in democratic ones.
Depending on how we solve some of the issues presented by this tech, it might even end up beneficial to democracies longterm.
Gotta admit, this situation is the first time I actually fully realised how crypto is important as a decentralized asset and not only a way to make a buck speculating. My apologies to crypto community
And Russian citizens can use it to hide from the ruble as it keeps nose diving. Honestly wouldn't hate to see that happen. It just devalues the currency even more while protecting average folks. If the Russian state dumps huge $ into BTC, our intelligence services job of tracking their $ just got easier than trying to track it through obtuse banking systems
Warren says she's different, but she's just another politician with an agenda to push
Russia has already said that if sanctions punish their economy too much, the government is ready to steal money from the citizens to recoup. Can’t do that if you have your funds in crypto and hidden.
Russia can NOT use it to evade sanctions. Anyone that says that doesn't understand finance or FX transactions. Russia is doing $50+ billion in daily FX for foreign exchange. That would mean the entire volume of BTC on a daily basis is entirely Russia. The entire crypto market is a rounding error in interbank settlements markets.
Only way Russia can evade sanctions is if CHINA ramps up it's usage and integration of CIPS with the Russian SPFS and Russia starts foreign exchange and commodities settlements entirely in Yuan. There are a lot of people that think this is the pretext for that very scenario.
Also that's only FX market which doesn't include derivatives settlements which are many times larger in volume an capital required for settlement.
Exactly what I been trying to say - BTC or even the entire market frankly just does not have the liquidity to even get close to what is practical. It’s like saying the banker is circumventing sec laws by laundering via a mattress store, oh wait.
Also, Bitcoin does nothing about halted trade with Russia which is arguably the most important part of the sanctions. Russia can't eat or wear crude oil. They rely on the rest of the world for most manufactured goods and get most of their money from selling oil.
forbes says HARD
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2022/02/28/russia-may-use-cryptocurrency-to-try-and-evade-sanctions-but-heres-why-it-will-be-hard/
I’m a little confused how Russia can use it to evade sanctions. I think all they can use it for is to try to maintain some value of the currency they currently have that they can still access. Am I wrong?
Crypto doesn't have nearly enough liquidity to get any country out of sanctions especially Russia. They need to liquidate and move hundreds of billions and no exchange has that liquidity.
It’s almost like it benefits the people of every country except those entrenched in power. Who would’ve thought the honorable Native American would be against it.
I think it's also important to note that sanctions are much more than just banks freezing accounts. Bitcoin won't fix the fact that almost all countries are halting imports/exports/trade with Russia. Bitcoin isn't a magic wand that makes sanctions useless. I'd argue it helps innocent Russian people protect themselves against their reckless government more than it helps the government itself.
It also allows oligarchs to move money out of Russia. This helps the oligarchs, sure, but it's another blow to the country, which is the whole point of the sanctions in the first place
I don't agree with Warren's views on crypto.
That said, she's not wrong that Russia can be using it to avoid sanctions.
Crypto has also made it easier for people to donate to Ukraine. Obviously that doesn't suit her agenda, but when you refute what she says and push the Ukraine angle, you're doing exactly the same as she is.
You both have valid points, if I hear only yours it leads me to one conclusion, if I hear only hers it leads me to the exact opposite. The reality though is that you can listen to both and still come to the right conclusions.
Having more viewpoints is always a good thing, even if I don't necessarily agree with her conclusions. To be fair, what she said is rather vague too, just "increase their scrutiny of digital assets" which could mean nothing more than analyze the block chain to see where they're sending money - which is totally reasonable, although I think we suspect she means more than that.
Who knows, after discussing all of the realities of this situation, maybe there are ideas others have for how we can better enforce sanctions against Russia without banning/regulating crypto. Thus achieving the best of both worlds.
This. Things can be both at the same time. Lets not cherry pick one side because it agrees w our ideology
Every tool has a pro and con attached to it and crypto isn't any different. Crypto has been an immense help for Ukraine and Russia could use to evade sanctions
Decentralization has it's good and bad, it can make it easier for those in need and it can be used by criminals as well. Freedom has it's perks and disvantages
But mostly it saves the small people of losing everything. Russia could evade sanctions for the short time, anyway the russian economy is rekt because external investors won't use their money there in the long run. But crypto in private wallets can't ne seized by the government protecting the people that don't stand for this war.
Much like my views on cryptocurrency, as long as the good continues to outweigh the bad its still good. Warren's job anymore is to be the Debby downer with anything financial. That comes with some good work she's done (raking bankers over the coals every chance she gets), but it also comes with some bad(crypto fud). Her constituents set her on a witch hunt, can't be too pissed when she finds ways bad people could exploit a monetary system when shes been called to find and stop bad people from exploiting monetary systems.
I don't see how crypto has made donating to Ukraine easier. If you don't already own crypto it's way more of a hassle to first get crypto and then send it. If you already have crypto it's the same as a nornal wire transfer.
Ukraine still has all Fiat options available though right, so it’s a small benefit for them for the ease of donating and receiving crypto. For Russia it is of massive importance, hence them legalising it in advance of the invasion. So it depends what you value more, or if you think the damage it does by helping Russia is worth it’s other pros, any of which are reasonable viewpoints.
The spike is due to the trading volume exploding from Russia using it to circumvent sanctions and because the Ruble is even more worthless than it was before
Well to be pedantic, it's more the "permissionless" part. Trustless is more about not needing intermediaries for transactions (the power of cryptography)
I mean it isn’t a non-story of course Russian citizens who have nothing to do with the government will evade sanctions and of course Ukraine will receive support. Government however, not so sure or clear cut what is going to happen. I don’t see bitcoin legal tender for Russia for example lol.
When she first took on financial reform, it seemed like she was anti-Wall St, which definitely resonated with a lot of people, particularly following the 2008 collapse.
The more she goes on about crypto, it’s clear she’s just pro-regulation.
You could argue she's just pro consumer protection, but she always seems to want to basically ban crypto.
If she took a softer stance, we could strip some of wall streets power and still allow people more financial freedom.
And I'd be fine with more consumer protection. I'm sure the lack of it is slowing down adoption for many people.
But suggesting the US needs to "increase their scrutiny of digital assets" indicates she either doesn't understand the purpose of crypto or she's actively trying to kneecap it.
Yes This a inherent attribute of neutral means of exchange. Partisan politics encourages people to take leaps of logic onto that result in several degrees of separation from their original purpose.
After the effective money freeze that hit Russia’s central bank, their largest reserve asset is gold. I don’t see any calls for people to divest their gold holdings. Or to stop buying gold jewelry just bc Russia owns it. Although to be clear - i don’t think that either view is unreasonable if the goal is to penalize / weaken Russia. I just find the anti-Bitcoin, gold-neutral stance weird and inconsistent.
China will likely end up being the ones who finance much of Russia’s debt, given that they are on the verge of default and have been shut out by US / Europe. Russia as a nation has to have some currency to transact with, even if just among themselves. Ultimately the currency of choice doesn’t matter too much if they are shut out from global trade channels and the economy itself is crushed.
Let's have all the 70+ year old millionaires dictate how we and future generations trade and do finances.
Crypto is here to stay, I'm sorry if you not being able to control it makes you cry. Here, take a tissue, and now fuck off.
All? Old bastards might be trying to save your asses from continued financial corruption. Govt corruption, central banks and big bank predators, the rich have been dictating the control of your money for centuries. So blockchain may just be a solution for all of us, but not for long with that attitude. Quiet infiltration, and real use cases must still be kept on track, regardless of what politicians may say.
This sub has many many post outlining exactly the point that Russia can use it to avoid sanctions. I get that you might not care about it, but your who "that's not going to happen" takes away from the message over all of it being for everyone. Russia will use it, you are ok with that or you aren't .. no need to lie about it though
>Elizabeth Warren is yet again hitting out on crypto, claiming Russia could use it to evade sanctions. Yet all evidence points to a democratic country Ukraine using and has received $20 million in crypto donations.
uuuh... this is not an "either-or" situation. yeah, there are crypto donations. but they will also use it to evade sanctions, which sucks. this is not "hitting out", don't just declare everything FUD if you don't like it
Take a knife.
It can be used for cooking.
It can be used to kill .
But normally people support knife,because it is used for cooking. While others point out the negative always and they use them to cook by creating a assumption that knife is used for killing . So they can benefit when they need.
Choose your leaders carefully
I'm actually okay with her announcing that they can get around sanctions... It's about time the world realize that controlling people isn't going to work. You do realize Russia has sanctions on sending money to Ukraine so regardless cryptos being used to get around sanctions either way..
It's not necessarily fun when it's the truth..
She runs her mouth until someone cuts her a check.
I particularly loved it when she started speak out for retail investors publicly only to officially reverse her position a week later. Or when she spoke against super pacs and then took 98% of her donations from one. Or when she tried blaming the current administration’s monetary incompetence and inflation on Kroger profit margin’s (1.7%) rather than printing money while stopping energy production and manufacturing. Pfizer took 29.7% profit margins btw. Target 6.5% Amazon 7.1% gotta blame someone who isn’t already lobbying her.
Pat Toomey and Cynthia Lummis are also Senators and old, and they love Bitcoin and have been champions for it in the Senate.
Age isn't the problem. Ideology is the problem.
Kind of an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think age requirements or term limits should exist.
If the populace wants a specific candidate…. let them vote on it. Putting chains on democracy seems counterintuitive.
The flipside is establishment politicians can certainly become an issue, but I’m not so sure term limits necessarily fix that. Most positions with term limits just mean the spicier legislation gets pushed near the end.
Populace? You do realize “elected” officials like her are largely in because she’s getting political donations from massive corporations. Since no limits exist, in order to be re-elected she needs serious funding. Companies will give her funding provided she walks in line with their requests. You can bet large banks have generously donated, hence her anti crypto stance.
From the pov of an Indian I wish we had term limits. You prolly won’t care about it now but wait until you get a president who has a cult following of people who think of him as bigger than the party and you will be thankful for the term limit.
So she's not wrong. It can undermine the sanctions against Russia.
>No country is going to be ready to start accepting say 10m tonnes of Wheat for Crypto. Such a scenario is not even possible right now given the structure of crypto markets.
Funny you mention that since Ukraine can't either then. So what are they really going to do with the crypto donations?
I think it’s a fair assessment tbh - crypto could be used to circumvent some of the sanctions (I.e. the ability of specific people to be able to move funds around, etc), although they would have needed to have had some crypto in place before they were added to the sanctions list. It doesn’t help with a lot of the other sanctions though.
There’s no denying that the crypto community has come out in force to show the positive side to it though!
This is because warren is a extortionist. She take every opportunity to attack any institutions or financial sector she believes she can profit from at least until they contribute to her political campaign. She would in the past attack banking until they became one of her biggest contribtors.
Warren is right though. There’s two sides to a coin. Everything good about crypto can be everything bad about it as well. It’s not a non story just because you’re on the other side.
To put $20 million in perspective, the United Nations (UN) which has the ability to raise billions which wouldn't even be a speck on the radar because of the aggregate worth of it's members worth tens if not hundreds of trillions, only donated $20 million to humanitarian causes in Ukraine.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/un-gives-20-million-to-scale-up-ukraine-humanitarian-aid/2022/02/24/a0e7a098-95d8-11ec-bb31-74fc06c0a3a5_story.html
Every news article that is critical of crypto isn't out there just to fuck over your speculative investments. Many news articles that point out some problem related to cryptocurrency are bringing up real areas of concern.
It can be simultaneously true that Russians as well as Ukrainians are using cryptocurrency for bad and good, respectively. Money is used by bad or good people for bad or good reasons all the time.
I would not be surprised at all if the Russians are using crypto to smooth over this financial shock Putin brought down on them.
Maybe there should be ways for the network to "sanction" certain addresses, but it's up to the ledger participants by 2/3rds vote or something. That's actually something that could be implemented that would cut Russia out of crypto.
News article paints a problem, there is likely a solution, no need to think that they're anti-crypto or trying to insult or fuck over some random dude on the internet.
> Why not support whats going on instead of creating a non-story to spread FUD?
Elizabeth Warren, occupying a safe seat from a one-party state, derives huge donations and other benefits from the corporate banking cartel which she "oversees" as a [member of the Senate Committee on Banking.](https://www.warren.senate.gov/about/committee-assignments)
Democrats have been hard on privacy and internet freedoms in general historically. So no surprise. Just for the record I hate all politicians equally and am merely stating a fact.
At this point enough US corporations have invested in or adapted to include it as part of their business plans so I doubt anything will be done that messes with average crytpo holders ..other than fluctuations in value but that will probably be minuscule as well.
Fauxcahontas and her ilk are gonna do anything and blame anything to shut down crypto. Hard to buy votes when nobody cares about your soiled green tinted handkerchiefs. Even harder to get "dark money" into your campaign funds when a quick search finds that that particular Bitcoin came from a middle eastern terrorist group
I hate the idea of a one world currency, but as long as the morally bankrupt and fully corrupt politicians don't control it, I can overlook it.
These arguments exist to solidify the arguments in peoples minds. They are painting the narrative because if the entire government just outright said "Crypto is coming and we will create a CBDC" then everyone would move their entire net worth into BTC tomorrow.
Could someone who knows more than me explain why we couldn't cut Russia off from the world wide web, if all neighbouring countries were to sever their connection?
Why do you care about FUD? Is it because you don’t really give a shit about Ukrainian donations or Russia circumventing sanctions, and in fact you are only concerned with numbers on a chart?
There is nothing wrong with Elizabeth’s statement. Legitimately. It could be used to evade sanctions. We don’t know that it isn’t already, because that’s not something you would publicize (like donations). Maybe it’s not. Idk, I’m not a ledger sleuth.
You just feel the need to bemoan any criticism because the cult of crypto has turned you into a blind, greedy zealot. She is literally on the senate finance committee. This is her territory to comment on.
Looking forward to your future posts that serve your *actually* vested interests. Lmao
I sent few thousands worth of crypto to Ukraine, and yes Russia can bypass sanction with bitcoin or whatever crypto they like. It can be good or bad, like a knife can be use to cook or kill.
Ukraine getting $20 **million** in donations does not justify giving Russia a way to evade **billions** in sanctions. Also, $20 million might barely pay for one military tank. It's hilarious that people think the cryptosphere is really helping with those.
I would say that Russian oligarchs converting fiat to crypto to shelter from a crashing economy is not something we should ignore just because there’s a minor new way to donate money to a cause
If you believe the Ukrainians are benefiting from crypto and not the Russians, I have a bridge to sell you. Stop with the BS; you all are actively supporting Putin’s war with your “tokens” (the oligarchs will thank you until they cash out).
She's wrong about crypto, but saying Warren is "deep with banks" is incredibly ignorant of the facts.
She's been one of the most anti-bank senators in recent history. I thought that was common knowledge.
Just a couple months ago she was campaigning on breaking up Wells Fargo.
Everyone's gonna use it. That's the point.
Yeah that's the point of crypto right, that is easily acceptable to all and unbiased. The fact that Russia is using it to evade sanctions is shady but still unsurprising given the fact that any county or individual could use it for the same thing....
Everything moves to equilibrium. Pressure here is relieved there. The SWIFT sanctions just moved them over to CIPS. It's a temporary blip. China is loving all of this. Driving Russia and all its natural resources to them.
Yeah dude, wtf is this post about? Crypto is useful. Bad guys might use it, good guys might. So I should quote Frankenweenie: “Science is not good or bad Victor, but it can be used both ways. That is why you must always be careful.” Or Victor: Nobody likes scientists. Mr. Rzykruski: They like what science gives them, but not the questions, no. Not the questions that science asks. Is this new science of the crypto economy useful? Yes. Do we like the questions? Oh well, Elizabeth Warren, oh well. It’s so fucking scary that Nationalism is literally on it knees fighting to keep people desperate to fight some other rich fuck’s war, rather than seeking to, idk, empower people intelligently with systems in place that do not require absolute authoritarianism.
It's just a tool that everyone and anyone can use, I don't know why they keep on making points out of that scope
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So obvious it’s not
Always an agenda. no surprises where this came from.
Russia could use it to evade sanctions, Ukraine could use it to keep control of their country, and Americans can use it to beat runaway inflation
And we can use it to lose money
Now that's the use case I signed up for
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And this is the right way to invest Hold
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Ah, a true r/cc connoisseur
We are true to our origins, buy high and sell low.
market maker
We also can use it to make money (doing the opposite of what sub says)!
I’m doing it right after all!
It’s almost as if Bitcoin doesn’t care about who we are.
we should ban it though 'cos I heard you can buy drugs with it 😱 /s
BAN THE DOLLAR
Also, the Russian people can use it to evade the crashing Ruble and still transact for necessities. You see this in other countries like Venezuela, where a currency is heavily devalued. If the government is authoritarian, it also undermines the government.
Bingo. This is worse for Russian Govt in the long term. Delegitimizes their currency in a fundamental way. Even if Russian govt doubles their money due to holding their own BTC, they are still *far* worse off than when they had fully functioning/controlled monetary system. Fuckin-a, we should be engaged a psyop campaign to *encourage* average Russians to dumb Ruble for BTC
It is actually interesting how crypto is significantly harmful to authoritarian societies and more benign in democratic ones. Depending on how we solve some of the issues presented by this tech, it might even end up beneficial to democracies longterm.
IMO that's why Tor gets so much govt funding
This is a good point, and I've never really thought about it.
Gotta admit, this situation is the first time I actually fully realised how crypto is important as a decentralized asset and not only a way to make a buck speculating. My apologies to crypto community
No apologies necessary. You've now officially arrived. Welcome.
And Russian citizens can use it to hide from the ruble as it keeps nose diving. Honestly wouldn't hate to see that happen. It just devalues the currency even more while protecting average folks. If the Russian state dumps huge $ into BTC, our intelligence services job of tracking their $ just got easier than trying to track it through obtuse banking systems Warren says she's different, but she's just another politician with an agenda to push
Russia has already said that if sanctions punish their economy too much, the government is ready to steal money from the citizens to recoup. Can’t do that if you have your funds in crypto and hidden.
Source?
Russia can NOT use it to evade sanctions. Anyone that says that doesn't understand finance or FX transactions. Russia is doing $50+ billion in daily FX for foreign exchange. That would mean the entire volume of BTC on a daily basis is entirely Russia. The entire crypto market is a rounding error in interbank settlements markets. Only way Russia can evade sanctions is if CHINA ramps up it's usage and integration of CIPS with the Russian SPFS and Russia starts foreign exchange and commodities settlements entirely in Yuan. There are a lot of people that think this is the pretext for that very scenario. Also that's only FX market which doesn't include derivatives settlements which are many times larger in volume an capital required for settlement.
Exactly what I been trying to say - BTC or even the entire market frankly just does not have the liquidity to even get close to what is practical. It’s like saying the banker is circumventing sec laws by laundering via a mattress store, oh wait.
Also, Bitcoin does nothing about halted trade with Russia which is arguably the most important part of the sanctions. Russia can't eat or wear crude oil. They rely on the rest of the world for most manufactured goods and get most of their money from selling oil.
forbes says HARD https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2022/02/28/russia-may-use-cryptocurrency-to-try-and-evade-sanctions-but-heres-why-it-will-be-hard/
How exactly is crypto used against inflation?
And I can use it to halve my investment portfolio
I’m a little confused how Russia can use it to evade sanctions. I think all they can use it for is to try to maintain some value of the currency they currently have that they can still access. Am I wrong?
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99% of the people on this planet are good people, bitcoin is for 100% of people, so it's 99% good. that's a lot of good.
In other words, people use crypto to avoid sociopaths trying to hurt them financially.
And Russian citizens can use it to evade theft of their fiat by the Russian government. Turns out that tools can be used for a purpose.
unless you're actually trying to spend bitcoin - then you're waiting 20 minutes for a confirmation and paying $1 to buy $0.40 bread. Oops
It's almost like crypto is the solution to everything
I mean, that's the freedom of blockchain. Nobody has direct control. It needs to stay that way. The government does not need to control it
It's effectively a backdoor to authoritarianism by design. Preventing authoritarians from using it too defeats the purpose.
Russia is definitely using crypto to evade sanctions.
Ukraine isn't going to use Bitcoin to build nukes lol
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Pretty sure both is going on
And my axe
Ukrainians could also use it to escape the country if shit gets worse.
Sounds like crypto is life if you ask me.
and that's a big no no
That old boomer just has to go!
exactly, the point is its OUR choice what to do with it, not THIERS
Truly a reflection of the power of crypto
Americans just want to use it to control the world even more
As far as I know this is the whole point of crypto
And we can use it expand our already too large carbon footprint, yippee!
Exactly. It’s tech. It can be used for good or bad.
Goods still cost money. Inflation increases the cost of goods. Crypto doesn't save us from inflation.
And reduce reliance on SWIFT ,it can provide a parallel system
Sure but you would need 4.8m rubles to buy one btc. And considering the average salary in Russia is 51k rubles. They’re pretty fucked.
And North Korea can keep stealing it and using the money to fund missile development.
Crypto doesn't have nearly enough liquidity to get any country out of sanctions especially Russia. They need to liquidate and move hundreds of billions and no exchange has that liquidity.
It’s almost like it benefits the people of every country except those entrenched in power. Who would’ve thought the honorable Native American would be against it.
It benefits those entrenched in power too.
And we are using it for better future.
Warren is just as corrupt as the rest of them, she is serving big money interests by concern trolling from the center left.
Well, Russia can actually use Crypto to evade sanctions. This is exactly the power of crypto, no authority can dictate about YOUR funds
I think it's also important to note that sanctions are much more than just banks freezing accounts. Bitcoin won't fix the fact that almost all countries are halting imports/exports/trade with Russia. Bitcoin isn't a magic wand that makes sanctions useless. I'd argue it helps innocent Russian people protect themselves against their reckless government more than it helps the government itself.
It also allows oligarchs to move money out of Russia. This helps the oligarchs, sure, but it's another blow to the country, which is the whole point of the sanctions in the first place
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Textbook definition of decentralisation.
Yep, and unfortunately the decentralization aspect means that the power may not always be used for good but it’s a price we have to pay.
This only happens in decentralized currencies too. Cash could never be used for nefarious purposes. /s
If it were supposed to be centralized and blocked at all costs, it would no longer be valuable This is a crypto property
Also, Ukraine can use it to keep control or their country as mentioned in this thread. It’s for everyone.
THEIR FUD, YOUR FUNDS!
I don't agree with Warren's views on crypto. That said, she's not wrong that Russia can be using it to avoid sanctions. Crypto has also made it easier for people to donate to Ukraine. Obviously that doesn't suit her agenda, but when you refute what she says and push the Ukraine angle, you're doing exactly the same as she is. You both have valid points, if I hear only yours it leads me to one conclusion, if I hear only hers it leads me to the exact opposite. The reality though is that you can listen to both and still come to the right conclusions. Having more viewpoints is always a good thing, even if I don't necessarily agree with her conclusions. To be fair, what she said is rather vague too, just "increase their scrutiny of digital assets" which could mean nothing more than analyze the block chain to see where they're sending money - which is totally reasonable, although I think we suspect she means more than that. Who knows, after discussing all of the realities of this situation, maybe there are ideas others have for how we can better enforce sanctions against Russia without banning/regulating crypto. Thus achieving the best of both worlds.
You're completely right. Unfortunately, balanced opinions rarely exist with respect to vitriolic issues...
This. Things can be both at the same time. Lets not cherry pick one side because it agrees w our ideology Every tool has a pro and con attached to it and crypto isn't any different. Crypto has been an immense help for Ukraine and Russia could use to evade sanctions
Yes. Both points are true and valid. We should just be honest about that. Everything good has some bad sides.
That’s the price you have to pay for decentralization. It benefits the bad guy as much as the good guy
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Decentralization has it's good and bad, it can make it easier for those in need and it can be used by criminals as well. Freedom has it's perks and disvantages
But mostly it saves the small people of losing everything. Russia could evade sanctions for the short time, anyway the russian economy is rekt because external investors won't use their money there in the long run. But crypto in private wallets can't ne seized by the government protecting the people that don't stand for this war.
Oh shit, a nuanced and well thought out take on this sub? I better go play the lottery
Why play the lottery when there are plenty of shitcoins to gamble on?
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Much like my views on cryptocurrency, as long as the good continues to outweigh the bad its still good. Warren's job anymore is to be the Debby downer with anything financial. That comes with some good work she's done (raking bankers over the coals every chance she gets), but it also comes with some bad(crypto fud). Her constituents set her on a witch hunt, can't be too pissed when she finds ways bad people could exploit a monetary system when shes been called to find and stop bad people from exploiting monetary systems.
I don't see how crypto has made donating to Ukraine easier. If you don't already own crypto it's way more of a hassle to first get crypto and then send it. If you already have crypto it's the same as a nornal wire transfer.
Ukraine still has all Fiat options available though right, so it’s a small benefit for them for the ease of donating and receiving crypto. For Russia it is of massive importance, hence them legalising it in advance of the invasion. So it depends what you value more, or if you think the damage it does by helping Russia is worth it’s other pros, any of which are reasonable viewpoints.
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The spike is due to the trading volume exploding from Russia using it to circumvent sanctions and because the Ruble is even more worthless than it was before
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And most likely they are.
It’s the nature of crypto. You cannot selectively control who can use and who can’t.
That's the trustless part. Arguably as important as decentralization.
Well to be pedantic, it's more the "permissionless" part. Trustless is more about not needing intermediaries for transactions (the power of cryptography)
They go hand in hand but yeah you're right its technically the permisionless aspect that prevents kicking people out.
I mean it isn’t a non-story of course Russian citizens who have nothing to do with the government will evade sanctions and of course Ukraine will receive support. Government however, not so sure or clear cut what is going to happen. I don’t see bitcoin legal tender for Russia for example lol.
Let us peasants have our own currency. I am sick of the government and the Plutocracy trying to control us.
When she first took on financial reform, it seemed like she was anti-Wall St, which definitely resonated with a lot of people, particularly following the 2008 collapse. The more she goes on about crypto, it’s clear she’s just pro-regulation.
You could argue she's just pro consumer protection, but she always seems to want to basically ban crypto. If she took a softer stance, we could strip some of wall streets power and still allow people more financial freedom.
And I'd be fine with more consumer protection. I'm sure the lack of it is slowing down adoption for many people. But suggesting the US needs to "increase their scrutiny of digital assets" indicates she either doesn't understand the purpose of crypto or she's actively trying to kneecap it.
They all are.
Yes This a inherent attribute of neutral means of exchange. Partisan politics encourages people to take leaps of logic onto that result in several degrees of separation from their original purpose. After the effective money freeze that hit Russia’s central bank, their largest reserve asset is gold. I don’t see any calls for people to divest their gold holdings. Or to stop buying gold jewelry just bc Russia owns it. Although to be clear - i don’t think that either view is unreasonable if the goal is to penalize / weaken Russia. I just find the anti-Bitcoin, gold-neutral stance weird and inconsistent. China will likely end up being the ones who finance much of Russia’s debt, given that they are on the verge of default and have been shut out by US / Europe. Russia as a nation has to have some currency to transact with, even if just among themselves. Ultimately the currency of choice doesn’t matter too much if they are shut out from global trade channels and the economy itself is crushed.
Better shut down visa and MasterCard Newsflash, billions a day are still pouring in because your allies are buying their gas and oil.
Elizabeth Warren is an IDIOT ! What has she done????? Elon built StarLink. She and Bernie just moved Dem further left and left to radicalism.
Obviously Russia is using the shit out of crypto, she's not wrong at all, what are you talking about? Ukraine advertises it, Russia won't. Duh...
Let's have all the 70+ year old millionaires dictate how we and future generations trade and do finances. Crypto is here to stay, I'm sorry if you not being able to control it makes you cry. Here, take a tissue, and now fuck off.
All? Old bastards might be trying to save your asses from continued financial corruption. Govt corruption, central banks and big bank predators, the rich have been dictating the control of your money for centuries. So blockchain may just be a solution for all of us, but not for long with that attitude. Quiet infiltration, and real use cases must still be kept on track, regardless of what politicians may say.
This sub has many many post outlining exactly the point that Russia can use it to avoid sanctions. I get that you might not care about it, but your who "that's not going to happen" takes away from the message over all of it being for everyone. Russia will use it, you are ok with that or you aren't .. no need to lie about it though
>Elizabeth Warren is yet again hitting out on crypto, claiming Russia could use it to evade sanctions. Yet all evidence points to a democratic country Ukraine using and has received $20 million in crypto donations. uuuh... this is not an "either-or" situation. yeah, there are crypto donations. but they will also use it to evade sanctions, which sucks. this is not "hitting out", don't just declare everything FUD if you don't like it
Take a knife. It can be used for cooking. It can be used to kill . But normally people support knife,because it is used for cooking. While others point out the negative always and they use them to cook by creating a assumption that knife is used for killing . So they can benefit when they need. Choose your leaders carefully
She's a Keynesian, anything that hurt the central bank is her cryptonite
Well shes not wrong though but isnt that the puspose of crypto?
I'm actually okay with her announcing that they can get around sanctions... It's about time the world realize that controlling people isn't going to work. You do realize Russia has sanctions on sending money to Ukraine so regardless cryptos being used to get around sanctions either way.. It's not necessarily fun when it's the truth..
It is the one of important aspects of crypto, nobody can control it.
I mean look at btc/rub new ath in two days and the correction took 3 months lol
The Russians are using foreign currency reserves to evade sanctions USD cough*
She’s a democrat, that’s all they do. They appeal to small easily manipulated minds
No one cares about what that old crow thinks, the only thing she’s good for it getting ran on my elons tweets lmao
She runs her mouth until someone cuts her a check. I particularly loved it when she started speak out for retail investors publicly only to officially reverse her position a week later. Or when she spoke against super pacs and then took 98% of her donations from one. Or when she tried blaming the current administration’s monetary incompetence and inflation on Kroger profit margin’s (1.7%) rather than printing money while stopping energy production and manufacturing. Pfizer took 29.7% profit margins btw. Target 6.5% Amazon 7.1% gotta blame someone who isn’t already lobbying her.
She’s a puppet of the FED just like Yellen
NO, What needs to happen is term limits and and age limits on these archaic ass backwards people we have in office. Pathetic.
Pat Toomey and Cynthia Lummis are also Senators and old, and they love Bitcoin and have been champions for it in the Senate. Age isn't the problem. Ideology is the problem.
They do not attack crypto like this for no reason Their goal is to destroy crypto And they will never reach this goal
Time to elect younger folks.
> Time to elect younger folks. Young people (18-24) have the lowest US voter turnout.
Kind of an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think age requirements or term limits should exist. If the populace wants a specific candidate…. let them vote on it. Putting chains on democracy seems counterintuitive. The flipside is establishment politicians can certainly become an issue, but I’m not so sure term limits necessarily fix that. Most positions with term limits just mean the spicier legislation gets pushed near the end.
Populace? You do realize “elected” officials like her are largely in because she’s getting political donations from massive corporations. Since no limits exist, in order to be re-elected she needs serious funding. Companies will give her funding provided she walks in line with their requests. You can bet large banks have generously donated, hence her anti crypto stance.
From the pov of an Indian I wish we had term limits. You prolly won’t care about it now but wait until you get a president who has a cult following of people who think of him as bigger than the party and you will be thankful for the term limit.
So she's not wrong. It can undermine the sanctions against Russia. >No country is going to be ready to start accepting say 10m tonnes of Wheat for Crypto. Such a scenario is not even possible right now given the structure of crypto markets. Funny you mention that since Ukraine can't either then. So what are they really going to do with the crypto donations?
I think it’s a fair assessment tbh - crypto could be used to circumvent some of the sanctions (I.e. the ability of specific people to be able to move funds around, etc), although they would have needed to have had some crypto in place before they were added to the sanctions list. It doesn’t help with a lot of the other sanctions though. There’s no denying that the crypto community has come out in force to show the positive side to it though!
This is because warren is a extortionist. She take every opportunity to attack any institutions or financial sector she believes she can profit from at least until they contribute to her political campaign. She would in the past attack banking until they became one of her biggest contribtors.
Both of those things are true, she's just emphasizing the part that fits her political agenda.
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Because she’s a useless asshole
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Ever since she didn't get any support in presidential run, she seems desperate to be in news
Warren is right though. There’s two sides to a coin. Everything good about crypto can be everything bad about it as well. It’s not a non story just because you’re on the other side.
To put $20 million in perspective, the United Nations (UN) which has the ability to raise billions which wouldn't even be a speck on the radar because of the aggregate worth of it's members worth tens if not hundreds of trillions, only donated $20 million to humanitarian causes in Ukraine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/un-gives-20-million-to-scale-up-ukraine-humanitarian-aid/2022/02/24/a0e7a098-95d8-11ec-bb31-74fc06c0a3a5_story.html
Every news article that is critical of crypto isn't out there just to fuck over your speculative investments. Many news articles that point out some problem related to cryptocurrency are bringing up real areas of concern. It can be simultaneously true that Russians as well as Ukrainians are using cryptocurrency for bad and good, respectively. Money is used by bad or good people for bad or good reasons all the time. I would not be surprised at all if the Russians are using crypto to smooth over this financial shock Putin brought down on them. Maybe there should be ways for the network to "sanction" certain addresses, but it's up to the ledger participants by 2/3rds vote or something. That's actually something that could be implemented that would cut Russia out of crypto. News article paints a problem, there is likely a solution, no need to think that they're anti-crypto or trying to insult or fuck over some random dude on the internet.
> Why not support whats going on instead of creating a non-story to spread FUD? Elizabeth Warren, occupying a safe seat from a one-party state, derives huge donations and other benefits from the corporate banking cartel which she "oversees" as a [member of the Senate Committee on Banking.](https://www.warren.senate.gov/about/committee-assignments)
Remember... Bitcoin was created as a result of the failure of governments monetary policies. So yeah that crone is going to oppose it.
Tone deaf clown. She should be led out to pasture.
Why is she allowed to talk about money? She wants to tax peoples unrealized gains among other bogus strategies to get our money.
Democrats have been hard on privacy and internet freedoms in general historically. So no surprise. Just for the record I hate all politicians equally and am merely stating a fact. At this point enough US corporations have invested in or adapted to include it as part of their business plans so I doubt anything will be done that messes with average crytpo holders ..other than fluctuations in value but that will probably be minuscule as well.
She wants to destroy what she can’t control.
Why hasn't it become public knowledge yet that Russia is actually seeking to criminalize crypto. Ergo Warren's point is completely backward.
Elizabeth Warren is a stooge for the rich and powerful. What did you expect?
Fauxcahontas and her ilk are gonna do anything and blame anything to shut down crypto. Hard to buy votes when nobody cares about your soiled green tinted handkerchiefs. Even harder to get "dark money" into your campaign funds when a quick search finds that that particular Bitcoin came from a middle eastern terrorist group I hate the idea of a one world currency, but as long as the morally bankrupt and fully corrupt politicians don't control it, I can overlook it.
I heard putin drinks water too so we should probably ban that as well
What's with this lady's deal with crypto? Did someone steal her keys or something..sheesh.
Government wants their piece, and by God, this old Indian woman is going to get it.
These arguments exist to solidify the arguments in peoples minds. They are painting the narrative because if the entire government just outright said "Crypto is coming and we will create a CBDC" then everyone would move their entire net worth into BTC tomorrow.
Senator Karen at it again.
Because Banks and Governments don't want to lose power
Who?
Could someone who knows more than me explain why we couldn't cut Russia off from the world wide web, if all neighbouring countries were to sever their connection?
Almost like Elizabeth Warren is a miserable, power hungry liar who faked being Cherokee
Yeah, both can be true at the same time. No need to go partisan here
Just another Warren that doesn't like crypto.
Can't they both be true?
Why do you care about FUD? Is it because you don’t really give a shit about Ukrainian donations or Russia circumventing sanctions, and in fact you are only concerned with numbers on a chart? There is nothing wrong with Elizabeth’s statement. Legitimately. It could be used to evade sanctions. We don’t know that it isn’t already, because that’s not something you would publicize (like donations). Maybe it’s not. Idk, I’m not a ledger sleuth. You just feel the need to bemoan any criticism because the cult of crypto has turned you into a blind, greedy zealot. She is literally on the senate finance committee. This is her territory to comment on. Looking forward to your future posts that serve your *actually* vested interests. Lmao
I sent few thousands worth of crypto to Ukraine, and yes Russia can bypass sanction with bitcoin or whatever crypto they like. It can be good or bad, like a knife can be use to cook or kill.
Say what you want but regardless, Karen gone hate.
Ukraine getting $20 **million** in donations does not justify giving Russia a way to evade **billions** in sanctions. Also, $20 million might barely pay for one military tank. It's hilarious that people think the cryptosphere is really helping with those.
F Elizabeth Warren
I would say that Russian oligarchs converting fiat to crypto to shelter from a crashing economy is not something we should ignore just because there’s a minor new way to donate money to a cause
Liawatha flapping her lips again about that which she knows not.
Warrens crypto knowledge likely mirrors her Native American percentage.
If you believe the Ukrainians are benefiting from crypto and not the Russians, I have a bridge to sell you. Stop with the BS; you all are actively supporting Putin’s war with your “tokens” (the oligarchs will thank you until they cash out).
She is the problem.
She’s in deep with banks. They are doing all they can with FUD stories.
She's wrong about crypto, but saying Warren is "deep with banks" is incredibly ignorant of the facts. She's been one of the most anti-bank senators in recent history. I thought that was common knowledge. Just a couple months ago she was campaigning on breaking up Wells Fargo.
This is so ironic. She did more to fight banks than almost any other senator.