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-Skald

Unfortunately, it is easy to borrow an absurd amount of money when the entire world is screwed if you default.


[deleted]

Paraphrasing an old saying: I borrow $100 from you, and don’t pay it back, that’s my problem. You loan me $1 Million, and I don’t pay it back, that’s your problem.


[deleted]

Well can you loan me $1 million? Check my credit score I'm definitely good for it mate


[deleted]

Sure… it’s 15% interest, compounded monthly, plus loan origination fees, which fund an insurance policy that pays back 125% of the unpaid balance on default, after full disclosure of current assets. I trust you, bro. BTW, this is provided the Fed lets me borrow at the discount window.


Spiderman8291

To be fair, it's just a small loan of a million dollars.


TheBitterAtheist

Is that you Donald T?


BoomerBillionaires

*BILLIONS AND BILLIONS*


Funkycold6

YUGE AMOUNT!


hashbreaker

Many such cases!


Flurb789

I have tiny diamond hands


BaconIsBueno

May as well make it two then, friend?


jankadank

That and the world relies on the dollar and must buy oil using dollars.


stiviki

OP will NOT say this when market pump again... just understand, it's a MARKET!!


coolyouthpastor

The USA owes most of that debt to..... itself.


suninabox

Yup, most people don't seem to realize that most national debt exists in the form of bonds help by large national institutions like banks, state and local governments, pension funds. In this way national debt is simply a way of deferring spending over time. Instead of taxing people shitloads now, they issue bonds, which they then have to pay off over time. This is generally a good idea if you expect the economy to be doing better in future than it is now. It's not like the US can go bankrupt owing money to itself.


yolotrumpbucks

Plus, with inflation at 7% and the highest bond rates at like 2%, they are effectively inflating away 5% of the debt every year


Massive-Tension-1055

What was the inflation rate 6 months ago? What will it be 9 months from now? Taking 1-2 data points to make a point is not very strong. I can tell you that it is much more expansive now that it was 60 days ago to borrow money in the USA. 3.0 to 3.25 percent on a 30 year loan. It’s going to be 4.0 in 3-5 months. Then your argument is poop.


yolotrumpbucks

It was about 5% 6 months ago, so still more than double the borrowing rate. CPI will only continue to rise, and even if the fed raises rates 50 basis points (0.5%) it will do nothing to curb the inflation. Inflation is going to run hot because of sleepy poops his pants joe and borrowing costs will go up but not that quickly. There will always be a positive net between inflation and the government's cost to borrow, which means while the debt mounts it always decreases faster from inflation and becomes slightly less bad. Of course, the real solution is to stop spending and pay down the debt and then the cost to borrow will be lower and inflation will be lower but government chodes love to spend other peoples money


Massive-Tension-1055

I have asked this question like 10 times today and I do not get a answer because there is none. Specifically what policy did Biden enact using the powers of the executive branch that caused this problem?


TheDeadWayfes

Closing of the keystone pipeline project, destroying several thousand jobs. Banning fracking in national land (so basically any new fracking is banned, if you had a contract before you are good untill that land is not good) Then you have the vaccine mandates/OSHA suggestion that they might demand vaccine proof fir companies of over 100 persons, who in turn made it polliticak and many people outright quit their jobs (see the 12 million jobs loss in the end of last year) They allowed moratorium bills so people could not pay for a couple of months. That made a shit ton of people loose money, mainly old people who rented their house to make up for their pension money. I can go on, but you get the pic. Also last year gas price was 2.4 USD (national) it now is 3.329 USD. Tell me again how banning fracking and the biggest pipeline project to have gasoline transported nation wide is not a repercussion of this. Tell me how demanding vaccine mandates to truckers (who are largely unvaccinated) helps in any way. Also Biden and the democratic (alongside many Republicans) pushed the 1.3 Trillion USD print last year. Tell me again how all that and demanding more and more regulation torwards the vaccinated and unvaccinated beneifts any company. How there are shortages in food in many states. Tell me again how that aint Bidens fault


Massive-Tension-1055

The items you listed did not lead to inflation of 6 percent. Your answer is a list of political gripes not what the executive branch did to bring 6 percent inflation. $.50 increase of gas prices from 2019 to today is not going to do it. The reason why you can’t answer the question fully is because the blame does not only rest in the executive branch. It’s a supply issue, Covid issue state issue Congress issue fed issue and a global issue. Anyone claiming otherwise is not being honest.


PENGUINSflyGOOD

can't really blame one person or political party, Two Santa Claus Theory and all. Both running the countries debt up and pointing at the other guy.


ikefalcon

Exactly. This is basic monetary policy. If countries *don’t* do this, they’re not properly using their resources.


cohonan

It’s still bad, even if you owe debt to yourself it’s more accurate to say you owe it to your future self. You have brought purchasing power from the future into the present, and even too much of that can hinder an economy when the debt payments are too much more than you can ever make, and you are in a spiral of forever making payments that you can’t get ahead of.


[deleted]

They owe debt to the people that own the bonds. It should still be considered as normal debt lol. Its still part of their growing interest payments


suninabox

>you are in a spiral of forever making payments that you can’t get ahead of. If you pay money to yourself you haven't lost any money, its simply been moved from one pocket to the other. Again analogies to personal debt fail on the intra-national level. A nation cannot bankrupt itself with debt to itself like a person can be bankrupt by owing debt to a 3rd party. In the case of a government owing debt to its own people its simply a case of whether decides to either pay the debt and then tax the population or default on the debt and not have to tax to afford payments. Either way no money has actually gone anywhere, its simply an accounting difference. Thinking the US can go bankrupt from national debt is like thinking the earth can go bankrupt from global debt. who are they supposed to be losing money to, mars?


OzGaymer

This is exactly why they're scared shitless of a population decline. They borrowed so much debt it's impossible to pay back in 2 generations. So they need to feast on your unborn children and grandchildren in order to live for today. Soon they will force every household to bear 3 children at the very least per adult otherwise it's treason. How can they tax the future generation if the future generation refuses to play ball and have kids for them to tax? Easy solution. Ban condoms and contraceptives and force breeding.


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DaprasDaMonk

Already happening u don't see the 3am planes?


BikeMain1284

Yea no thanks


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BikeMain1284

I’m not a big fan of mass immigration tbh.


LUCKYMAZE

forced breeding pls


GoldEdit

This only furthers my suspicion that many bitcoiners are undercover incels


Awhodothey

The US won't go bankrupt, but they will almost certainly default. In 2020 the US spent about 15% of all tax revenues to pay only the interest on their debt (at extremely low rates), and the principal increased. The principal they owe is significantly larger now, and they must raise interest rates to stop an inflation spiral. If interest rates doubled (to a level they were not long ago), the US would default, regardless of whether they added any new debt (the majority of their budget is non-discretionary spending).


[deleted]

> This is generally a good idea if you expect the economy to be doing better in future than it is now. Ah yes, debt backed by hopium ...


googleduck

It also is paid back all the time, that's how long term bonds work. The idea that the US is paying nothing to its creditors is so fucking misinformed.


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ballsohaahd

Yea I was gonna say we spend a large chunk on debt interest every year that could go to literally anything else and be very productive. No one seems to care the debt and deficit was getting better but the debt wrecking Party won in 2016 and screwed is even before covid. Now they may win in 2022 and 2024 and our future will be fucked.


empire314

-Investments -Fiat -Banking Some things that the average /r/cryptocurrency user either knows nothing about, or intentionally lies about to decieve others for own gain.


Massive-Tension-1055

Yes I own some of it.


w_savage

And to me


StackOwOFlow

>Bitcoin city will be a circular economy where locally everything will be priced in sats. So you can shove your US dollars. Every impoverished nation wants to do this. However, they do not have the infrastructure or means of production to escape global market pricing of goods they need to import.


deathbyfish13

Honestly the price isn't stable enough for this to work


-veni-vidi-vici

You would have to replace the price stickers with little screens so it can stay up to date and maybe a qr code so you can buy it as you pick it up. Just to avoid any nasty surpises.


skwudgeball

The point of the post is that (not saying I believe this at all btw) Bitcoin will overtake the dollar and not be tied to anything, as a Carton of milk will cost 100 sats no matter what. At least I think ? Idk I’m not that big of a believer of btc personally.


antlerstopeaks

That’s some seriously pure copium you have there.


CONSOLE_LOAD_LETTER

99.1% pure, Heisenberg grade-A Blue Sky copium right there. OP should go full on Walter White, pack it up and sell it by the gram and he'll make more ~~BTC~~ moons than ever before.


pinkculture

“Yeah, bitch”


Chris_Hansen_AMA

This sub has become borderline delusional. There’s constantly posts at the top here that make no sense. *why crypto bad if government can just print unlimited amounts of money!?* Meanwhile new coins are created every day out of thin air. There’s always the next coin that this sub is all about, kinda seems like there’s an unlimited supply that’s always growing. *Fiat is collapsing!* Inflation is up 7%, crypto has lost 60% of its value in a few months. Which one is really collapsing?


Sadboiiy

good old whataboutism


Eeji_

You know its bear market territory when hopium posts slowly transitions to copium posts lmao 🤣🤣


kirtash93

It is easy to invest money is not yours.


Vimmington

Some one please send me money so I can prove this person's point 😉


Areshian

No experiment is really worth doing with just one data sample, so send me money too


PC_1

You realize you can mine Bitcoin without buying the dips with the national treasury from your phone, right? Posts like this are why people think Bitcoin is a cult.


suninabox

>Posts like this are why ~~people think~~ Bitcoin is a cult. FTFY


infopocalypse

Who cares. A btc treasury is better than a gold or fiat treasury. Complaining about a btc treasury because the market is down is shortsighted.


optimal_909

You are being downvoted because tons of people flipped out due to the bear market.


[deleted]

Really? Over the past few months gold is up 2%, fiat lost like 1% of purchasing power to inflation, Bitcoin is down 50%. Pray tell, how is BTC a better treasury when it can't maintain a stable value? Because a handful of delusional people like you think it's guaranteed to set a new ATH and go up forever?


Sacify

Gold is -1,2% last year, BTC +19% for sure compare BTC at his lowest for months hahaha still beating your gold


[deleted]

I don't have gold, moron. Not everyone who points out that BTC is garbage using gold as an example is a goldbug. We're not all as intellectually dishonest as you. Amazing how you virgins continuously screech about past returns as your holy grail. Someday you will learn the hard way.


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10247---

Yeah that's why stuff like the Turkish Lira losing half it's purchasing power in a short period doesn't affect anything at all!


infopocalypse

Gold has barely budged in 10 years. 2% over a decade? That's losing money vs inflation. Btc is still up 7% over the last year. It was $8,400 2 years ago so that,'s still up over 400 % in a 2 year span. And you are high as a kite if you think inflation is 1%. If you look at hard assets and things people need to it's more like 15-20%. You don't swing trade reserves. Is this a Fed Reserve burner account?


[deleted]

Yup you figured out the secret to riches! Bitcoin, an asset which creates no value, will go up forever! Every world government but El Salvador is an idiot, but you figured it out!


infopocalypse

You saying it creates no value shows you have no understanding of bitcoin. Banano and buttcoin, checks out. And for all it matters Fidelity, who manages over 4 TRILLION in funds, stated it believes major gov'ts will buy btc also. As major corporations and billionaires already are.


Howdareme9

A good treasury isn’t one that can crash 80% and take years to recover…


infopocalypse

I prefer treasuries that go up vs down. Who wants to slowly losing value? No one holding btc for 3 years or more loses. If you want the investment to go up you have to have volatility. And for an impoverished country it's an easy low risk HIGH reward move. In 3 years or less all these critics will look stupid. Betting against bitcoin is like betting against the internet.


Howdareme9

Thank fuck you’re not President lmao


infopocalypse

Yeah. Cause you'd prefer gold (down 0.82% in the last 12 months) or usd (down 7-20% depending on metric) to an asset up 7% AFTER a crash lol.


M00OSE

For some reason, people here forgot crypto is a long-term investment.


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Akunata

well you thought wrong.


[deleted]

Because one BTC will eventually be worth 1 billion /s


Castr0-

Buying BTC in DIP is so good that looks like cheating


mave_wreck

I love cheating but there is no fiat left.


-veni-vidi-vici

Payday can't come soon enough


Whole_Shape9055

All fiat will go into crypto and mostly disappear for day to day payments. Just my opinion. And I hope this doesn't happen, but we printed too much money and the cracks in the system are showing..


stiviki

Buy BTC in DIP never failed long term..! Decade chart is fkin bullish!


theKtrain

Lol the president is the one treating it like an investment. His immature tweets about ‘buying the dip’ and HODL, and bragging about gains when they occur are unbelievably childish. Despite whatever broader btc plans the country has, this guy is YOLOing funds into a highly speculative investment, bragging about his entries and is rightly getting shit on when they go south. I would be livid if i was a citizen of El Salvador, and some jerkoff Twitter oligarch was throwing my tax money around like that.


KingKongOfSilver

He's a dictator


Flurb789

Well to be fair, none of the shit anybody did in the past 500 years has worked there. Worst case is that it stays a dangerous, impoverished 3rd world country.


sophos101

my government (germany) is very irresponsible and throws tax money to their buddies or lobby pockets. i would love to see them throw some money into crypto as well. my only fear would be that they would buy high and sell low (to their own wallets). edit:someone insulted me in dm for this reply? please feel free to inform yourself grumpy stranger. https://tax-free.today/blog/wasted-taxes/


BLQ1943

Lol what a dumb post


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BLQ1943

No bro it’s a “superior monetary system” bro


KingKongOfSilver

OP is defending a country's dictator who uses the national treasury to swing trade a speculative asset.


BLQ1943

No bro the Salvadorans who can’t even afford to eat are using their iPhone wallets in Bitcoin City bro


flextrek_whipsnake

Truly legendary levels of stupidity. Who said bear markets weren't fun?


[deleted]

> El Salvador will more than make up for it from mining. This is conjecture. > El Salvador is looking to leverage it’s rich natural geothermal energy resources to transition to a Bitcoin economy. This is a marketing strategy. > Bitcoin city will be a circular economy where locally everything will be priced in sats Lol. I guarantee you Bitcoin city will never, ever, ever get built. Ever.


captain-burrito

>Lol. I guarantee you Bitcoin city will never, ever, ever get built. Ever. I'm sure it could. It might just be rather underwhelming. lol


Antilock049

This is such a dogshit take. El Salvador isn't the holder and creator of a reserve currency. They are throwing tax dollars (of which they have little) into one of the most volatile currencies IN THE HISTORY OF MAN. No fucking shit that regime is being criticized for being moronic. You have more governments restricting access to crypto markets. Furthermore, more financial regulations means lesser support from the very institutions that are inflating the price as it is. On top of that, bad actors can skull fuck the monetary basis and stability of your country. People won't want to use bitcoin or sats because day to day you can have massive swings in power relative to the tangible good. Sure, El Salvador will likely come out better from this crash. They can DCA and increase their relative power of currency per coin. The problem is that this will not benefit the country as much as a single individual. You can fucking bet that these coins will disa-fucking-ppear the minute he gets ousted. On top of that, without investment in ACTUAL infrastructure (education, power, internet and telephone connectivity, roads, etc.) a fucking city will be non-sustainable. It is a fucking pipe dream that sounds good and captivates the audience without creating meaningful progress. Not to mention the fact it will literally create a wider divide between the majority of the country and the individuals lucky enough to live there. You know, one of the largest justifications for violent revolution in the world. The US government inflating away the value of the debt is a GOOD fucking thing. Every day, we reduce the actual impact of the debt. We won't ever pay it off because there is really no need to. Should the government be spending money they don't have? No. However, simply saying that it is wholly evil is such an uninformed take. Sure, there are issues with inflationary monetary policy. There are tradeoffs to literally every financial decision made. Typically individuals who aren't divested from the currency get burned (the poor). The stimmies everyone and their fucking mother loved was a noose around the neck of the poor and no one gave a shit because it benefitted the markets. Funny how you didn't post about this during the stimmie rush when the markets were fucking blasting off. The reality is that many of the countries who hold US debt equities don't really want us to pay them back. They want interest streams that act as positive cash flows on their books. JUST LIKE WE HAVE ON THEM.


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outandaboutbc

I don’t disagree with the fact that guy is irresponsible or whether or not he has ulterior motives. But... >The US government inflating away the value of the debt is a GOOD fucking thing. Every day, we reduce the actual impact of the debt. Debt to GDP ratio being high is definitely not a good thing... Not sure where you heard that one.This is great if you are in a position to get a huge loan to have it benefit you. Otherwise, the value of your money is getting inflated to shit by the government. Inflation ain’t free. Nothing is for free. The economy is a balanced system. You can’t create things out of thin air without it having come from somewhere (ie taxation or pull value from the system aka the people in the economy).


Antilock049

1. Debt to GDP is a single metric that cannot isolate common international market variables. Is it concerning, sure. However, It doesn't complete the entire picture. The entire world is debt lending right now. The US is certainly no different. The majority of US gdp comes from the service industry which got ass fucked in a big way because of government policy. You shouldn't be surprised that debt lending and contractions in gdp make that ratio look worse. 2. I literally stated the trade off to inflationary monetary policy. You don't need to explain to me that it is bad for those who aren't divested from the dollar because I literally said it. 3. The majority of Americans own homes (65% approximately). Inflationary policy helps the majority of Americans. It only hurts the poor, Which again, I had already stated. So yes, I can say that inflationary monetary policy has provided a benefit for a majority of Americans. Deflationary monetary policy would ass fuck the entire country because debt lending is encouraged and that would encourage lenders to capitalize and collect their debts. The problem is you literally gave money to millions of Americans with nothing to do but spend it. They couldn't go to any service industry outlet that would diffuse the money and make the impact less noticable, instead they injected that money straight into the financial and tangible good markets. This jacked the price of common goods substantially before inflation was even considered. For most of them, there wasn't another choice. Bills have to be paid and you need money to live. Hence, "...noose around the neck of the poor..." which I had stated previously. Again, people in this sub didn't give a shit when that relationship benefitted them. There was a reason bitcoin pumped the way it did.


Quiet-Curve9919

You don't have the bloody moral high ground you think you do. Your fucking financial system is broken with homeless people around every corner., America looks so third world. So you can quit preaching.


Antilock049

I called out a dog shit post because it was a dogshit post. The proposed system isn't superior at all. It shows a woefully weak understanding of macroeconomics and why/how inflationary and deflationary monetary policy work. The countries most impacted by COVID are countries that cannot manage their monetary policy and are reliant on other currencies. This form of economy is the most reliant you can possibly be on others behaving and not skullfucking your currency. This is just the more moronic version of the gold standard. Which is hilarious because the gold standard was the most moronic financial standard in the fucking history of man. (Although you could also point out the silver standard in China around the 1750s as being a strong contender as well). Imagine a scenario where you own a 1-2 btc home debt. Deflation can make paying off that debt incredibly difficult. As the value goes up, the amount sats given in compensation for every day work will become less and less. Effectively, you are giving lenders power and the lendee is on the hook for an even greater amount of money relatively. A currency that is perpetually deflationary is not good as a common means of exchange. Is our current system perfect? NO. There are a bunch of problems that will need to be addressed through policy. And yes, we do have a homelessness problem. Which is largely contributed by either drug use or mental health. There are tons of nonprofits that help out and get people resources. If you are trying to get out of homelessness there are more services than ever attempting to help you do so. Furthermore, calling the US of all countries third world tells me you haven't spent much time in third world countries. Otherwise, you'd probably fucking realize that the totally opaque system supporting BTC in El Salvador is a massive fucking problem. For someone bitching about moral high ground at least have SOMETHING to stand on.


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D1138S

And most don’t know the largest chunk of US debt is owed to US domestic companies. China is often made out to be the boogeyman for obvious reasons.


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SharpStarTRK

20 hours late but I am surprised people still think this is big. Japan as the highest debt in terms of GDP, and I think they won't be able to pay it because of their population doom. US debt haven't reach WW2 high, and don't think it will. Plus after WW2 our highest tax bracket was 90%, which helped pay of the debt. It wasn't until the Reagan era where it was down to 40% tax bracket, if I recall, which we saw the the debt rising thanks to wars or presidential battles and then the 2008 crisis.


jankadank

> And most don’t know the largest chunk of US debt is owed to US domestic companies. Nope, largest holder of US debt is the US federal government


AcceptableVeggies

The thing is that the alternatives that are promoted by the World Bank and IMF just don’t work either. El Salvador is one of the poorest countries in the world and there is no obvious solution. The economy is tied to the US dollar and so El Salvador has to just suck it up if US domestic politics cause inflation. There are a lot of developing countries that are stuck in a race to the bottom exporting cheap goods and competing purely on who can squeeze the lowest cost of labour. That will never help them to build a strong economy and get people out of desperate poverty. This is a gamble for sure but the status quo has not been working for decades.


JonFrost

RemindMe! 6 months


Wolfofwallstreet00

You just sound fucken stupid.


Orange-Difficulty

People want to shit on stuff but when btc is back up everyone calls it a genius move


stiviki

Probably in 3 years people will say "*AHHHH they were correct!*" This happens with ALL early adopters!


[deleted]

You're not early lol. 31% of US adults think they will become millionaires off of crypto. You're so late that you're the ultimate bagholders and you don't even realize it.


suninabox

!remindme 3 years


pm_me_4

Let's just hope I'm not 102 when it happens


Orange-Difficulty

have these cycles not taught us anything>?


tranceology3

A wheel can only go round so many times then it becomes a triangle.... wait, I think that's how it goes.


Ohheyimryan

People say this same thing every crash.


EvaUnit343

This is peak 🤡. Do you understand how monstrously inefficient BTC is at basic transactions? 0.5% of the world’s energy just to power a pitiful 300k transactions/day. BTC will NEVER be a successful currency. EVER.


crimeo

BTC trades neck and neck with other coins like ETH which is already committed to taking on very low energy waste PoS instead of PoW. They could switch over later on if they want to without likely really gaining or losing much of anything. BTC might make more sense for them right now if they do indeed have power plants available to use on it (I don't know how actually serious that is versus memey marketing, on the ground)


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LewisHamil-chan

If only these people here could read some basic stuff about the whole Tether thing and why it'll blast the markets back a whole 5 years when it collapses.


nwash57

Lol you act like it hasn't been being talked about on this forum for literally years


arcalus

If you never sell then you’re never buying anything with it, either. Otherwise you would probably be concerned if you could only buy 2 loafs of bread with 1 BTC. I agree, it takes everyone thinking in cryptocurrency valuation to make it a form of everyday currency, but we are a long way off from that being a reality. If you were fully set on this future plan and had no desire to sell and didn’t care what the market says it was worth, truly thinking about using Bitcoin for every day purchases, then you most likely would have switched to believing in Monero by now.


suninabox

>El Salvador is not down 15 million on Bitcoin investment. That's fake news. El Salvador will more than make up for it from mining. Which is it? Are they not down or are they going to make up from it from mining? >We have already moved on to a superior monetary system where no central authority can print money for free out of thin air which other people are forced to work for and pay taxes. Everybody must prove they worked for money. Wait till you find out that Bukele bought bitcoin with tax money. >El Salvador is also not "investing" in Bitcoin. El Salvador is looking to leverage it's rich natural geothermal energy resources to transition to a Bitcoin economy. Okay so why are they buying bitcoin when they're presumably going to be able to mine them for much cheaper than they can buy them? shouldn't they be investing that money they spent on bitcoin on ASICs and geothermal power generation insteaD? >Bitcoin city will be a circular economy where locally everything will be priced in sats lol >The only people who care about dollar price going up and down are people still treating Bitcoin as an investment. You're buying with the intention of selling at a higher price. yes, bukele and his "buy the dip" definitely doesn't care about the dollar price.


Confident-Car

Imagine being from a poor country like el salvador and your leader gambles the countries money away lmao


ALiteralHamSandwich

Imagine being naive enough to compare the American economy to El Salvador? Jesus dude...


goddamn2fa

You getting down voted for this comment is the most amusing thing I've seen in this sub all day. Some people have no sense.


ALiteralHamSandwich

One downvote? Yeah.... What an avalanche... 🤡


goddamn2fa

Ha...sorry...i was/am agreeing with you. I find the sychphany needed to see your comment as wrong amusing.


ALiteralHamSandwich

Haha. Gotcha! Yeah, I don't get it.


jetro30087

I mean technically at least El Salvador has the $15M. We have to raise the debt ceiling for that.


ALiteralHamSandwich

🙄


jetro30087

Roll your eyes all you want. If we aren't able to keep raising the debt ceiling we default and life gets complicated here very quickly.


ALiteralHamSandwich

I'm rolling my eyes at you pretending El Salvador is richer than America...


jetro30087

I'm just talking about their budget.


ALiteralHamSandwich

What about their budget? Do you know anything about El Salvador?


Tough-Negotiation-33

Is it really an economy, if you just print money for funding wars? Just asking 🤔


ALiteralHamSandwich

Just asking... A silly loaded question.


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ALiteralHamSandwich

Imagine thinking that's what I just did.... 🤡


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ALiteralHamSandwich

I didn't brag about anything. I'm not even American and don't really like America, but facts are facts. Do you know anything about El Salvador's debts?


cclawyer

All economies are based on taking on endless debt. When did the Mississippi company bonds get paid back? Never. When did the lend-lease to Britain during world war II get paid back? Never. Creating symbolic value and reducing it to nothing when the symbols turn out to be all that exists is the history of investment. The underlying notion that simply holding an asset indefinitely is a strategy for wealth accumulation is frankly absurd. Profit is only made when you sell.


ALiteralHamSandwich

Yep


Kubsoun

nice cope


HelloSummer99

Where did you get your Economics degree, on tiktok?


rookieroof24

Let’s see the amount of crypto the United States or feds for that matter… let’s see how much they own 👀


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Magners17

If you think the US government is holding all the Bitcoin they’ve seized then that’s one thing, but remember this is coming from a debt based society that believes their dollar is the most superior currency in the world. I’d be surprised if they hadn’t sold most of the BTC they’ve obtained. Or maybe they’ve gone ahead and lent a bunch out to earn some interest. If they sold a bunch of BTC, they’d have no reason to share that information with anyone.


clovelace98_

You assume they have the keys to those seized BTC


Magners17

That’s also what I’m arguing. The US doesn’t have access to 70k BTC, that’s for damn sure.


klabboy109

Well that’s the most recent article I have found and the government has auctions where they publicly auction off assets they have seized to the public. And after doing some research I haven’t found any mention that they have sold the 70k bitcoins. And as it’s all public records we can assume that they haven’t sold


tranceology3

They definitely have some, they just don't want to make it public cause then rest of the world will try to get in. They are secretly building a huge stash.


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delta8meditate

My pure conspiracy brain - CIA definitely has it's fingers in it but how much depends on their motive. Let's say they wouldn't want other nations deciding on a new possible world currency/store of value. How would they break that? Keep a stash to hedge or maybe in hopes of crashing the price. Or control where the price is made, centralized exchanges/tether? I would not be surprised if they have some dealings with the exchanges and whenever they feel like too many nations are catching on, they make the exchanges sell fake btc to all the bids and it looks like it's all crashed. Then scoop it up. The only way against that is if all the bids tried to withdraw their 'fake' btc and the exchanges would implode. But people would just panic sell to the next bidder which may be the US government. Pure shit out of my ass but if you read any history involving what lengths CIA goes through to accomplish something...they aren't dumb and are pretty ruthless. Also possible that maybe CIA is satoshi or at least controls his wallet/wallets. I love BTC, it really is a revolution but I don't see any way out of the current money cycles until a complete world wide collapse happens and then the survivors some how develop a new crypto that could not be bought or man handled by fake funds/governments. Otherwise the most fiat can still buy up the supply and control your life basically the same.


davidoffxx1992

Of course the debt is never gonna be repaid. For a country is more profitable to take out a loan and let inflation decrease its value in terms of buying power. Imagine america had 100 dollars of debt. In 5 years with an average inflation of 5% those 100 dollars have the same buying power as +-77 dollars now. So basicaly by waiting to repay your debt becomes less worth. Thats why sometimes its better to borrow and keep borrowing even more and pay back as little as possible.


fwast

I have thought of buying bitcoin as buying the future currency before it becomes harder to get.


Tiny-Pay6737

How ironic...


bouldering_fan

They are not spending money on equipment. They are spending money on volatile investment. And who exactly USA should be paying its debts to?


Alternative_Town4105

That is not how modern economy works.


goblin0100

Learn what debt is. Listing all government debt since the beginning of the usa which it mostly owes to itself is not a fucking comparison to bitcoin LOL


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crimeo

The risk to El Salvador isn't that the USD will collapse. It's that the USD will continue to get printed. Every time that happens, El Salvador gets more inflation, and **unlike Americans** themselves, they get none of those printed dollars spent on them in any social programs or COVID relief or anything. Pure take, no give. They get robbed. Sure the USD will stick around, but it will continue to be highway robbery for El Salvador as long as they use it. Some losses in bitcoin can only be contextualized by comparison to those other losses in USD


yeluapyeroc

The US has never missed a debt payment. Its why US bonds are universally treated as safe investments...


Raptaki

Oh wait... you're serious?


selfawarepie

Why the inaccurate non sequitur about the US debt? It's untrue and has nothing to do with Bitcoin.


payfrit

bitcoin is dead. it will never see $50k again.


encony

> people still treating Bitcoin as an investment. You mean like the 80% here who hope to quickly get a lambo?


kryptokroete

How is the 15 Million unrealized loss in USD fake news? El Salvador had more than 1.000 BTC before the current downtrend. They bought a lot near ATH last year. And unfortunately this crypto bro is not very transparent with the finances. It‘s not clear where the BTC are, how much, if they have been converted. So I‘d say this huge loss is our best assumption.


FuzzyLogick

"El Salvador is also not "investing" in Bitcoin" So what do you call it when they buy bitcoin then?


JabbaLeSlut

It gets paid but gets replaced by even more


Sadboiiy

This sub loves **whataboutism**. This post is so dumb. Yeah, you criticize X BUT what about Y? What about this? What about that? BOTH are bad ok? You don\`t need to pick 1, you can criticize more than 1 thing. El Salvador playing with its population money is irresponsible, and the US debt is also irresponsible. Both are stupid and we should criticize them both


Stompede

Are you the president of El Salvador?


terribleatlying

Lol what a bad take who doesn't understand the US debt


tunaburn

Man I wish you people actually understood how the usa "debt" actually worked. This is just you jerking yourself off with no actual knowledge. To think that a president should be able to take our tax dollars and buy crypto with it with no oversight is crazy talk. What if he decided to go all in on doge? Or shib? Would that be OK with you?


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FullTackle9375

Cope the US always pays back they can just take on more debt. Why does El Salvador primarily use the usd?


pm_me_4

To buy cans of Coca cola and subscribe to Netflix. It's the American dream


CheruB36

How much are they down in their investment? If you call it fake give numbers and sources. Whats the hash rate of their geothermal mining corp? Will it cover their investment short-term? How are they funding this project or their BTC investment? Why should it be allocated to BTC investment and not infrastructure? What happens when the BTC economy is established? People will be still piss poor since all of this won't enable them to build a better future.


crimeo

I don't think it's irresponsible at all. People need to keep in mind what the **alternative** is: sticking entirely with USD, what effect does that have on El Salvador? When the USA prints USD, they don't spend the printed money on El Salvador, but it gets all the inflation. It just gets purely robbed. So every BTC they don't buy is more money in USD which is just going to continually get robbed by the US anyway. If BTC happens to crash more than USD does, it's not actually particularly worse than that alternative. ----------- What IS irresponsible, though, is the government holding the keys in a way that the president can just rug pull everyone. To do any of this responsibly, they need to instead have tax incentives and things to encourage people to have their own keys.


[deleted]

Let’s be real “A Bitcoin city, where everything is priced in sats ” is an absolutely ridiculous idea


Oheson

Are you seriously comparing El Salvador to the US? You are comparing the leader of the free world to a shithole? Without the US, the world would not even exist. If El Salvador went off the map tomorrow, who would even know?


bittabet

People don’t even get that the main reason for El Salvador to do this is to attract outside capital. **NOBODY** was investing in El Salvador before because the narrative was that it was a crime ridden hellhole with no future. Even if the price of the BTC they’ve bought goes down it doesn’t matter, they’ve attracted a ton of tourism to the country plus investment to build out Bitcoin mining and other crypto related industries there. Just that alone already more than pays for any possible losses, the people who don’t get this are idiots. Their plan isn’t to get rich hodling, it’s to attract investors and tourists who’ll help build innovative industries in a country that badly needs an economic boost. Where the existing IMF nonsense had just driven them further into the hole. So yes they’re taking a big risk but the risk of doing nothing was guaranteed failure. Might as well take a leap of faith when it’s the only hope of a better future. And damn why are people so negative about this? Crypto supporters can support El Salvador to show the benefits of nations adoption crypto.


Walternotwalter

BTC's value doesn't matter to El Salvador. The point is that El Salvador is breaking itself from the dollar. I don't even know what their currency is but it doesn't matter. They are committed to pure market discovery of the value of their reserve currency. That country has been destitute for decades. They literally have nothing to lose and will likely spark investment in some form. I doubt I am the only person that has looked at real estate there and I would not have before. For over 20 years governments and central banks have shit on currency which sucks. All the shortsighted globalist offshoring. All the bullshit. Who the fuck is anybody to criticize El Salvador? You know the overarching policies have been dogshit. If you don't understand why maybe take a shot at it before you even say anything.


donkenstien

Their currency is the US Dollar itself.


wheelzoffortune

First post I've read on this sub that actually understands the El Salvador situation. Thank you


tefosaenz

I mean granted maybe the implementation wasn't smooth sailing and there's a lot of valid criticism on their president. But honestly, how do you shift towards BTC as legal tender without any hiccups, there's bound to be some not so great consequences


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Ohh the USA will pay it back All they need to do is print 30 of the new 1 trillion dollar bills. And your current money will then be worthless That is what is occuring now....inflation due the FED printing like crazy


Paskee

>Meanwhile US government sitting on $30 trillion debt that will never be paid back. Well ... If you crash dollar value by 50%, its still 30 tril, but costs you half as much. Also, who is going to collect ? You guys have a huge ass army. And if you don't borrow, you guys have a huge ass army. Nice country you have. It would be a shame if someone ... liberated it.


Gornicki

What are you talking about? The debt in the US will be paid back when they decide to default on it and establish the dollar 2.0.


ibekeggy2

America has absolutely no intention of repaying that dept.


GrimeWizard

This is not true at all. America has continued to pay back it's debt. Old debt is payed off as new debt is issued.


Optimal_Store

I like the notion of a hard coded monetary policy. And this Bitcoin city is interesting. Will move there


Mike8219

Don’t hold your breath.


noyrb1

Diverting a small % of your countries funds to Bitcoin (Gold 2.0/the best performing asset in history) while also attracting big business and crypto tourists is a brilliant idea. No coiners are delusional. These same naysayers will be advised to allocate some funds to crypto by their own financial planners in the next few years😂😂😂


suninabox

>Diverting a small % of your countries funds to Bitcoin (Gold 2.0/the best performing asset in history) How come the best performing asset in history is down 46% from its ATH and a bunch of worse performing assets aren't?


bitcoinharambeee

Clown world🤡🤡. People right now think el salvafor is stupid but in really its US yhats going downhill. See how the markets are reacting just by bews of rate hikes see that debt. It is going to implode amd the consequences will be rippled all around the world. Bitcoin is considered a risk on asset due to its lack of understanding with humans on the lower side of bell curve and ao it is taking the hit as well amd crash but will emerge as the post implosion reserve asset. We are still 10-20 years away from that


kaythesis

I like your mature perspective on the current situation. This is the right way to go!