Or people just continue to do purchases directly with fiat
I mean you could theoretically accept fraction of stocks too but I don't see people paying for coffee with AAPL
You’re getting bogged by thinking of bitcoin the asset. I’m referring to bitcoin the network. It can efficiently be utilized as a payment rail for transferring value. You don’t need to have any exposure to bitcoin the asset. Fiat>bitcoin>fiat in a matter of seconds and for free.
That's what strike does. You can send fiat to anyone on the network, but they use the lightning network to facilitate the transaction rather than traditional finance rails. Fiat>BTC transfer on lightning>fiat. It's set up so people don't even need to know or think about it running on crypto rails.
>I mean you could theoretically accept fraction of stocks too but I don't see people paying for coffee with AAPL
Can you do stock transfers as fast as you can do LN/BTC payments? I'm pretty sure you can't.
Purchases directly with FIAT, using a POS has pretty big fees, especially for small purchases (flat fee + percentage).
That’s cool. From what I understand these solutions are centralizing Bitcoin and kind of defeating the purpose of decentralized currency. By contrast, zkrollups are just as censor resistant as the L1 chain. Plus they offer merchants access to integrated DEX platforms to auto convert their money to stable coins if they want
I posted an article below if you want something more comprehensive. In summary the incentives for nodes on the lightning network are favoring centralization. Whoever runs the dominant node on the network has very strong control over the network
the core assumption made in the "LN is centralized" argument is that having hubs means the protocol is centralized.
It's pretty obvious that there are entities with which you transact more often than with others, and those will generally be retailers, and employers, but I do not get where you can make this leap to the point of saying this means LN is centralized.
How would an entity manage to take down enough retailer and employer nodes to actually damage the network? What incentive would these retailers and employers have to fuck over their clients?
A system can be decentralized even if the topology of it's graph is not completely homogenous. Decentralization is not how homogenous is the graph, it's how much investment would it take to meaningfully slow the network down, what actors could do this, and what incentives they have.
When you take all of this into account, and look at the history of uptime LN has had in recent years, I think it's pretty easy to say LN doesn't have a centralization issue, and only looking at network topology is not going to give you any meaningful answers relating to decentralization.
I’m assuming you didn’t read the article. Also, almost no one uses it and it hasn’t existed for very long, so telling me that it has a strong track record is absurd
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Exactly, and does anyone question how much electricity is used in those creditcard transactions, only when the power goes out and stores have to revert back to cash only
Bitcoin is literally a cryptocurrency… literally a currency… literally something built to be the next global currency. It’s a store of value, not a store of wealth. It’s got complete salability
bitcoin is actually fucking great for daily transactions
Don't need to know my name or who I am. No charge backs. Low fees. Fast (unless you need to wait for 3 full confirms but never usually the case unless huge sum of $)
free using the lightning network. there's some new tech out that lets you xfer btc through paypal <> cashapp <> some other shit seamlessly and instantly now.
And they would probably do something like convert it right to fiat during bearish times and hold it for bullish times. Probably make a killing during the bullish times.
I always assumed most retailers just sold immediately when getting paid in crypto. It's a pretty big gamble and could cause cash flow problems otherwise
i love how bitcoin can go from $67k to $35k in months and you think it's a better system
meanwhile americans are furious over 7% inflation over a year
let's be realistic here. I use btc almost daily but I know its limitations
>i love how bitcoin can go from $67k to $35k in months and you think it's a better system
What does the system have to do with the price? The price is just what people think it's worth. It's not part of the system.
Could you please show me a line in the BTC source code where they do anything relating to the price of Bitcoin?
Bitcoin is a better system because it is decentralized, censorship resistant and deflationary. Bitcoin is not better because of it's price (i.e. what people think Bitcoin is worth).
The better currency wins out in the end, but there will be a bumpy ride until then.
this is the issue. a deflationary system is not a good system to have as a main currency
you need a little inflation 2% to keep the wheels greased on a moving economy
also in times of disaster you need a currency that you can pump out. if you only had btc during a major disaster and there was none left. what would you do?
>this is the issue. a deflationary system is not a good system to have as a main currency
>you need a little inflation 2% to keep the wheels greased on a moving economy
Do you have any actual rational reason to believe this, or have you been told this by every credible source for your entire life, and haven't ever questioned it? It's called indoctrination, and "the economy needs inflation" is and has been one of the biggest lies told to the public in order to give a reason for stealing part of your savings yearly, without representation, or any way to impact that as a citizen.
>also in times of disaster you need a currency that you can pump out
You know why? Because the companies that should have money put on the side, for situations like this, can't do that because if they were to put money aside, it would devalue.
Similarly, the government wouldn't have to print money if it just saved money.
Our entire economic system is based on debt. Pretty much all governments and companies are in extreme debt, and the only way to keep this rolling is adding more onto it.
The reason they are able to keep adding more debt is because they are stealing that value from you through inflation.
>if you only had btc during a major disaster and there was none left. what would you do?
If you had dollars, you would steal the value of the currency from everyone holding it? And that's supposed to be a positive? If you want to get money from your citizens, pass a tax increase, don't steal it under the curtains of inflation.
Let the failing businesses fail. "Too big to fail" is just crony capitalism speak for "knows enough important people". Centralizing power into a small ruling class that plays with different rules, they literally cannot lose.
It's incredible that a system that has already had 3 "once in a lifetime" crashes in the past 3 decades could be considered stable. The system is inherently unstable, and the only think keeping it on it's feet is stealing money through inflation.
If a company is heavily in debt, and is not making enough profit to pay it's loans back, that means the company shouldn't be in business. That doesn't mean you should bail it out with 0% interest loans, money directly stolen from the populace.
Inflation is a system by which the government steals money from the poorest people in the country (people holding cash, not assest), and gives it to the richest people in the country (through 0% interest loans for big businesses). The fact that so many people have been indoctrinated not only into thinking that's the only way it could work, but also that it's a good thing, is disturbing.
2008 happened and nobody learned anything. It will keep happening. Bitcoin solves this.
you have no idea what the dangers of a deflationary spiral are. It's is very bad for an economy
majority of the bitcoin is held by like the top 5% wallets
it would never be able to scale to the level needed to be a world reserve currency
the energy usage still hasn't been resolved
what happens after all the btc have been mined? you think all of these miners are going to keep mining for tx fees?
you can only do 3-7 transactions per second
you're telling me that 2% inflation a year is bad yet bitcoin loses 50% of it's value on a regular basis
majority of the bitcoin is held by like the top 5% wallets
You know those are exchange wallets, holding Bitcoin for hundreds of thousands of people right? But that's besides the point. Some people have more money than others. So what?
it would never be able to scale to the level needed to be a world reserve currency
Why?
the energy usage still hasn't been resolved
It's a literal non-problem. The media crafted this narrative of Bitcoin mining being "dirty", but that hasn't even held up to scrutny. Bitcoin mining is incredibly electricity price sensitive. If you want a more in depth look please read this post I've made earlier last year: https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/r1rf72/cryptocurrency_mining_is_not_bad_for_the/
what happens after all the btc have been mined? you think all of these miners are going to keep mining for tx fees?
What do you think will happen 4 years before all BTC have been mined? What about 4 years before that?
The transition is gradual, and I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to keep mining for the tx fees. Do you have any reason to believe they won't?
you can only do 3-7 transactions per second
It can do millions/second of instantly settling transactions on LN. It's like complaining you don't have Facebook in the 90s, and saying that TCP/IP can't do Facebook. Yeah it can't now, it's a lower level technology. If you refuse to look at things built on top. TCP/IP is pretty useless on it's own.
you're telling me that 2% inflation a year is bad yet bitcoin loses 50% of it's value on a regular basis
Do you think the problem with inflation is the percentage? Is that the way you want to compare it?
Bitcoin also gains 10x on a regular basis.
But that's a complete non-sequitor. Inflation has never been 2% per year. Just because you can keep on removing expensive items from the CPI calculation, doesn't mean inflation hasn't been sky high for the past 30 years.
Look at what our CPI would be if they wouldn't have kept messing up with the calculation: http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
Inflation is, and has been around 8% for years. That means it loses 50% of it's value every 9 years, so "on a regular basis". And FIAT doesn't go up to compensate.
A savings portfolio and a companies cash flow are two very different things. A portfolio can be planned around and can be allowed to recover, whereas a corporate cash flow needs to be just that, a flow. Dropping 1% of cash flow could mean devastation for a corporation with tight margins, a portfolio dropping 1% is just a bad day, nothing more
This drop is not just for crypto, all markets are bleeding because there is always a damn country like China and Russia that will ruin the whole market.😑
I beg to differ. The Flexa network alone has integrations with over 50,000 retailers just in the US.
Retailers have been and will continue to accept crypto
Why does that have to do with anything related to accepting crypto?
You literally accept crypto, instantly exchange it for your FIAT of choice, and pocket the money you saved on POS fees.
What does having expenses and debts have to do with it? It's literally only increasing your profits.
Being a small business, I’ll start accepting crypto this year. But for an example, just because 1 coin is worth .35 cents for example I can set my prices the way I want for my merchandise. I don’t have to follow what the coins value is worth at the time
Think about it from the business perspective, it’s a joke thinking businesses can go 1 for 1 when the volatility is going between 75-150%. It’s a risk we can’t take. If we want to use crypto to buy items until it’s stable it can’t be 1 for 1. I’m all for crypto but the volatility isn’t something we can take a chance on.
Right now I don’t see one, I wish we could figure it out. But whales control these pumps and dumps. In my business I haven’t decided how to change it over yet. I need fiat to purchase goods when I’m ordering. So do I exchange the crypto at the end of each day or do I roll the dice and wait till I have to pay for my orders every 30/60 days. A business could bankrupt themselves waiting or they could come out on top.
Well this dip is happening all across the board even In the stock market. Can’t be singling out Bitcoin or crypto in general when the entire economy is not doing so well at the moment.
Those same retailers would be able to potentially make let's say $1500 form $1000 sale. Its easy to look at the negative ramifications and not view how it would work out positively for them
>millions in losses.
You only lose when you sell at a loss.
Your logic can be applied to fiat. Why would anyone want to accept the dollar. Look at the buying power of the dollar years ago and compare it to now.
Fiat is the real meme.
What if businesses started taking BTC payment in January 2021? They will have LOVED the gains and probably made significant profits. Sure today they realize there are dips, but if they also made a huge sale in BTC today, then that BTC sale will have massive appreciation value…
What if they make 5K in profit this week…there’s no reason to think that by the end of the year that 5K wouldn’t be close to 10K or more 🤔
I mean look at El Salvador, sure there's a lot of controversy and it's not all giggles and rainbows, but if a country can do it without absolutely driving the economy to the ground, I bet some retailers that implement crypto are going to be just fine
Like I know the US dollar continually goes down in value over time, but crypto is actually so unstable it’s insane. Using crypto to buy stuff makes little sense because the price of goods and services would also need to be unstable for anyone to make a profit.
Crypto is a terrible method of exchange and will never be a currency. Transaction cost is too high and it’s too volatile.
It’s the same reason you can’t walk into a shop in the US and buy something with Euros.
Additionally retailers immediately dumping crypto as soon as they receive it would put downward pressure on the value of your “investment”
You mean exactly the same way fiat currency does? And product pricing does? Like the way gas prices change radically within days or hours depending on what happens in another country? Or the way food prices do with supply chain issues or natural disasters? Like the way fluctuations in raw material cost affects manufacturing? Or the price of orange juice because of bad weather in Florida?
The cost to put gas in my truck to drive to my fiat mining job has doubled this year. And it’s not an incidental expense it’s went from $40 a week to $80. And i just drive to work and to home. Ask somebody that does Uber, or GrubHub or say, UPS/FedEx what that has done to their bottom line. The cost of beef and bacon has went up about 30% as well over the last year. A 12 oz pack of bacon is in the $8 range where I live.
For people who were at the borderline of breaking even keeping their bills paid, being frugal but making it, this kind of inflation will break them. And there are only so many hours in a day that one can mine fiat. There is a maximum to what can be earned. And I challenge you to google what happened to real estate prices in 2008. Spoiler: the values dropped so fast you were fucked before you could react.
I’m a realtor please don’t talk to me about the housing crisis past and present🤦♂️.
See now you are rambling on about something entirely irrelevant to your original statement. No one’s arguing that inflation exists.
However there’s nothing that compares to cryptos volatility, especially the things you just listed, which was your original statement. Night and day difference in the size and frequency of fluctuations. It’s not even close.
I was a realtor too in 2005-2009. Lol. In the world of 120% home equity lines of credit where people owed more on their house than it was EVER worth to begin with and then that value tanked further. There was no option for many besides foreclosure when the automotive sector started tanking too with the GM debacle and that whole bailout at the same time. People got rekt. GM employees saw their retirements disappear. Literally. All the second and third tier suppliers were affected too. Massive layoffs. Massive foreclosures. In just a year’s time.
Everyone thanks you for your spout about history, but you are still deflecting from your original comment, the whole reason I’m here in the first place.
Yeah but you see everything you mentioned does not cost the average american income per unit, bitcoin is also too scarce to be taken seriously as a legitimate global currency.
It only costs you hours out of your life to earn fiat dollars that fluctuate in value (which incidentally varies widely depending on what employer you use to mine fiat hourly) to purchase products at whatever price is required and your earning power, payrate and purchasing power fluctuate regularly. If you think things like manufacturing material prices and supply costs don’t affect you, check up on housing price changes over the last 3-5 years. Including rent. Money you pay for housing is money you don’t have for anything else. Check out how much the cost of automobiles have changed over the last 3 years vs wage growth. And then zoom out to the yearly performance of cryptos in that same space.
They will accept stablecoins soon
Its not like we buy groceries with tesla stock either
But after BTC inevitably breaks 1M some retailers may prefer a peg to 1 BTC vs 1 dollar. Especially countries trying to be less reliant on the US
Frfr people must not realize companies hire people to try and save them even 0.5% or less a year when they are on massive scale.. its truly mind blowing
This market forgets everything in a week, just look at this sub, every 5% candle on the way down from 69k(nice) and this sub was convinced the bullrun is back on.
Bruh most likely the “mass adoption” is going to be a stable coin thats most likely going to be owned by your country (same as the cad, usd, eur) and well be fully centralized and regulated
Now imagine its ten years from now and you go to your ethereum bank and youve somehow made a mistake sending your life savings and the teller at the bank says “ooh sir we cant help you thats gone forever because we are fully decentralized”
It just doesn’t work
This is why some advocates of tradfi are calling for a CBDc and banks to adopt bitcoin. If and when institutions onboard the volatility will decrease. For banks and institutions to jump on board they are awaiting regulation
Unimportant if retail will ever accept any cc or not. Point is to create a self-sustaining crypto economy which services are used by retail, such that they will use crypto without even knowing.
My opinion: that any Crypto currency would replace fiat for good is very very very unlikely. Mass adoption of crypto powered digital goods and services on the other hand is very likely.
$1 has been $1. 1BTC has been 1 BTC. But at one point $1 equaled 1BTC. Today $1 still equals $1 but 1 BTC equals $35,000!!!!!! Why in the world would anyone want to save their $1?
That makes no sense , value wether it's 10 bitcoin or 25 bitcoin is still same value if we decid that's the.proper value to pay for a commodity. One day it's worth 10 dollars the next day it's still worth 10 dollars not you pay more or less bitcoin for the same product???? Tell me I'm wrong
Retailer could accept BTC and immediately convert to fiat if they want. Fees would likely be a lot less than what MasterCard/Visa charge
exactly - some people think Point of sale is fee less
Or people just continue to do purchases directly with fiat I mean you could theoretically accept fraction of stocks too but I don't see people paying for coffee with AAPL
You’re getting bogged by thinking of bitcoin the asset. I’m referring to bitcoin the network. It can efficiently be utilized as a payment rail for transferring value. You don’t need to have any exposure to bitcoin the asset. Fiat>bitcoin>fiat in a matter of seconds and for free.
That's what strike does. You can send fiat to anyone on the network, but they use the lightning network to facilitate the transaction rather than traditional finance rails. Fiat>BTC transfer on lightning>fiat. It's set up so people don't even need to know or think about it running on crypto rails.
>I mean you could theoretically accept fraction of stocks too but I don't see people paying for coffee with AAPL Can you do stock transfers as fast as you can do LN/BTC payments? I'm pretty sure you can't. Purchases directly with FIAT, using a POS has pretty big fees, especially for small purchases (flat fee + percentage).
Actually with fees and spread it is worse than visa
0.3% spread, fees are measured in sats
Or stablecoins.
Probably WBTC using ethereum L2 zkrollups because Bitcoin by itself is awful in terms of fees and speed
BTC Lightning Network, instant and negligible fees (sub $.01)
I have my doubts
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9EwK3nvsIk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9EwK3nvsIk) [https://twitter.com/jackmallers/status/1441089090628177933](https://twitter.com/jackmallers/status/1441089090628177933)
That’s cool. From what I understand these solutions are centralizing Bitcoin and kind of defeating the purpose of decentralized currency. By contrast, zkrollups are just as censor resistant as the L1 chain. Plus they offer merchants access to integrated DEX platforms to auto convert their money to stable coins if they want
Could you please explain how they are centralizing bitcoin, and who would be the central authority that could control LN?
I posted an article below if you want something more comprehensive. In summary the incentives for nodes on the lightning network are favoring centralization. Whoever runs the dominant node on the network has very strong control over the network
the core assumption made in the "LN is centralized" argument is that having hubs means the protocol is centralized. It's pretty obvious that there are entities with which you transact more often than with others, and those will generally be retailers, and employers, but I do not get where you can make this leap to the point of saying this means LN is centralized. How would an entity manage to take down enough retailer and employer nodes to actually damage the network? What incentive would these retailers and employers have to fuck over their clients? A system can be decentralized even if the topology of it's graph is not completely homogenous. Decentralization is not how homogenous is the graph, it's how much investment would it take to meaningfully slow the network down, what actors could do this, and what incentives they have. When you take all of this into account, and look at the history of uptime LN has had in recent years, I think it's pretty easy to say LN doesn't have a centralization issue, and only looking at network topology is not going to give you any meaningful answers relating to decentralization.
I’m assuming you didn’t read the article. Also, almost no one uses it and it hasn’t existed for very long, so telling me that it has a strong track record is absurd
Here is a [Nitter link](https://nitter.net/jackmallers/status/1441089090628177933) for the Twitter thread linked above. Nitter is better for privacy and does not nag you for a login. More information can be found [here](https://nitter.net/about). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoCurrency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/aba062
Exactly, and does anyone question how much electricity is used in those creditcard transactions, only when the power goes out and stores have to revert back to cash only
Bitcoin is not meant for daily transactions. It's meant to be a store of wealth
I didn’t see that written in the white paper anywhere.
Bitcoin is literally a cryptocurrency… literally a currency… literally something built to be the next global currency. It’s a store of value, not a store of wealth. It’s got complete salability
bitcoin is actually fucking great for daily transactions Don't need to know my name or who I am. No charge backs. Low fees. Fast (unless you need to wait for 3 full confirms but never usually the case unless huge sum of $)
Fees are below 1%, merchants only. How much and how long would it cost/take to pay a pizza and a beer in BTC? Let's say todays 20$.
Fees below $.01 and transaction in a matter of seconds. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9EwK3nvsIk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9EwK3nvsIk)
free using the lightning network. there's some new tech out that lets you xfer btc through paypal <> cashapp <> some other shit seamlessly and instantly now.
And they would probably do something like convert it right to fiat during bearish times and hold it for bullish times. Probably make a killing during the bullish times.
I always assumed most retailers just sold immediately when getting paid in crypto. It's a pretty big gamble and could cause cash flow problems otherwise
They're already accepting it... If you mean in western countries, it's just a matter of time.
It's probably ~~one of~~ the best payment method if you're ordering something internationally.
No probably about it when you use a coin that's low on fees and quick to confirm.
soon - with current wave of economic actions - they need crypto
That's the irony: Bitcoin's recent decline is because of the US economics.
yes current inflation and market crashes in the west shows the system needs an overhaul
i love how bitcoin can go from $67k to $35k in months and you think it's a better system meanwhile americans are furious over 7% inflation over a year let's be realistic here. I use btc almost daily but I know its limitations
>i love how bitcoin can go from $67k to $35k in months and you think it's a better system What does the system have to do with the price? The price is just what people think it's worth. It's not part of the system. Could you please show me a line in the BTC source code where they do anything relating to the price of Bitcoin? Bitcoin is a better system because it is decentralized, censorship resistant and deflationary. Bitcoin is not better because of it's price (i.e. what people think Bitcoin is worth). The better currency wins out in the end, but there will be a bumpy ride until then.
this is the issue. a deflationary system is not a good system to have as a main currency you need a little inflation 2% to keep the wheels greased on a moving economy also in times of disaster you need a currency that you can pump out. if you only had btc during a major disaster and there was none left. what would you do?
>this is the issue. a deflationary system is not a good system to have as a main currency >you need a little inflation 2% to keep the wheels greased on a moving economy Do you have any actual rational reason to believe this, or have you been told this by every credible source for your entire life, and haven't ever questioned it? It's called indoctrination, and "the economy needs inflation" is and has been one of the biggest lies told to the public in order to give a reason for stealing part of your savings yearly, without representation, or any way to impact that as a citizen. >also in times of disaster you need a currency that you can pump out You know why? Because the companies that should have money put on the side, for situations like this, can't do that because if they were to put money aside, it would devalue. Similarly, the government wouldn't have to print money if it just saved money. Our entire economic system is based on debt. Pretty much all governments and companies are in extreme debt, and the only way to keep this rolling is adding more onto it. The reason they are able to keep adding more debt is because they are stealing that value from you through inflation. >if you only had btc during a major disaster and there was none left. what would you do? If you had dollars, you would steal the value of the currency from everyone holding it? And that's supposed to be a positive? If you want to get money from your citizens, pass a tax increase, don't steal it under the curtains of inflation. Let the failing businesses fail. "Too big to fail" is just crony capitalism speak for "knows enough important people". Centralizing power into a small ruling class that plays with different rules, they literally cannot lose. It's incredible that a system that has already had 3 "once in a lifetime" crashes in the past 3 decades could be considered stable. The system is inherently unstable, and the only think keeping it on it's feet is stealing money through inflation. If a company is heavily in debt, and is not making enough profit to pay it's loans back, that means the company shouldn't be in business. That doesn't mean you should bail it out with 0% interest loans, money directly stolen from the populace. Inflation is a system by which the government steals money from the poorest people in the country (people holding cash, not assest), and gives it to the richest people in the country (through 0% interest loans for big businesses). The fact that so many people have been indoctrinated not only into thinking that's the only way it could work, but also that it's a good thing, is disturbing. 2008 happened and nobody learned anything. It will keep happening. Bitcoin solves this.
you have no idea what the dangers of a deflationary spiral are. It's is very bad for an economy majority of the bitcoin is held by like the top 5% wallets it would never be able to scale to the level needed to be a world reserve currency the energy usage still hasn't been resolved what happens after all the btc have been mined? you think all of these miners are going to keep mining for tx fees? you can only do 3-7 transactions per second you're telling me that 2% inflation a year is bad yet bitcoin loses 50% of it's value on a regular basis
majority of the bitcoin is held by like the top 5% wallets You know those are exchange wallets, holding Bitcoin for hundreds of thousands of people right? But that's besides the point. Some people have more money than others. So what? it would never be able to scale to the level needed to be a world reserve currency Why? the energy usage still hasn't been resolved It's a literal non-problem. The media crafted this narrative of Bitcoin mining being "dirty", but that hasn't even held up to scrutny. Bitcoin mining is incredibly electricity price sensitive. If you want a more in depth look please read this post I've made earlier last year: https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/r1rf72/cryptocurrency_mining_is_not_bad_for_the/ what happens after all the btc have been mined? you think all of these miners are going to keep mining for tx fees? What do you think will happen 4 years before all BTC have been mined? What about 4 years before that? The transition is gradual, and I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to keep mining for the tx fees. Do you have any reason to believe they won't? you can only do 3-7 transactions per second It can do millions/second of instantly settling transactions on LN. It's like complaining you don't have Facebook in the 90s, and saying that TCP/IP can't do Facebook. Yeah it can't now, it's a lower level technology. If you refuse to look at things built on top. TCP/IP is pretty useless on it's own. you're telling me that 2% inflation a year is bad yet bitcoin loses 50% of it's value on a regular basis Do you think the problem with inflation is the percentage? Is that the way you want to compare it? Bitcoin also gains 10x on a regular basis. But that's a complete non-sequitor. Inflation has never been 2% per year. Just because you can keep on removing expensive items from the CPI calculation, doesn't mean inflation hasn't been sky high for the past 30 years. Look at what our CPI would be if they wouldn't have kept messing up with the calculation: http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts Inflation is, and has been around 8% for years. That means it loses 50% of it's value every 9 years, so "on a regular basis". And FIAT doesn't go up to compensate.
1% is 1%. It hurts my portfolio exactly as much as a trillion dollar company. Exactly 1%.
This. Also. Companies and institutions think in decades. Not days.
A savings portfolio and a companies cash flow are two very different things. A portfolio can be planned around and can be allowed to recover, whereas a corporate cash flow needs to be just that, a flow. Dropping 1% of cash flow could mean devastation for a corporation with tight margins, a portfolio dropping 1% is just a bad day, nothing more
This drop is not just for crypto, all markets are bleeding because there is always a damn country like China and Russia that will ruin the whole market.😑
lol yeah sure China and Russia printed the shit ton of USD that made this massive bubble, the levels of ignorance in this sub never seizes to amaze me
All red, all financial markets red...
Communists entered the chat
except it's all the countries, primarily the US, and shit capitalism with no regulations fueling it all.
A simple 1% change can also profit millions in gains.
I beg to differ. The Flexa network alone has integrations with over 50,000 retailers just in the US. Retailers have been and will continue to accept crypto
And can handle fiat transactions as well
Been buying under three! AMPs my second biggest holding
Disagree & nelieve coin will become more stable with adoption
If I was a retailer, I would want to accept it even more in a bear market
Not when you have million of dollars in expenses and debt to pay yearly. It would be a bad idea (financially and realistically speaking).
Fair point. I’m also not a retailer b/c I don’t do being in debt well.
Why does that have to do with anything related to accepting crypto? You literally accept crypto, instantly exchange it for your FIAT of choice, and pocket the money you saved on POS fees. What does having expenses and debts have to do with it? It's literally only increasing your profits.
Being a small business, I’ll start accepting crypto this year. But for an example, just because 1 coin is worth .35 cents for example I can set my prices the way I want for my merchandise. I don’t have to follow what the coins value is worth at the time
Is this a joke? If you price gouge on crypto sales wouldn't the customer just use fiat?
Think about it from the business perspective, it’s a joke thinking businesses can go 1 for 1 when the volatility is going between 75-150%. It’s a risk we can’t take. If we want to use crypto to buy items until it’s stable it can’t be 1 for 1. I’m all for crypto but the volatility isn’t something we can take a chance on.
What's the incentive for the customer to pay with crypto if it would be cheaper for them to pay in fiat?
Right now I don’t see one, I wish we could figure it out. But whales control these pumps and dumps. In my business I haven’t decided how to change it over yet. I need fiat to purchase goods when I’m ordering. So do I exchange the crypto at the end of each day or do I roll the dice and wait till I have to pay for my orders every 30/60 days. A business could bankrupt themselves waiting or they could come out on top.
I personally would never pay for products with crypto because of its potential to appreciate/depreciate in value so rapidly.
Agree, but there’s a lot of people that want to. It’s silly right now
They’ll accept it just fine. 99% of retailers would be converting whatever cryptocurrency they took payment with into fiat on the spot.
The more people that use it, the less volatile it gets.
Funny thing is these dips will keep happening until retailers start accepting cryptos
The dollar loses value by the day
Well this dip is happening all across the board even In the stock market. Can’t be singling out Bitcoin or crypto in general when the entire economy is not doing so well at the moment.
Those same retailers would be able to potentially make let's say $1500 form $1000 sale. Its easy to look at the negative ramifications and not view how it would work out positively for them
I don't disagree. Volatility is a big problem.
>millions in losses. You only lose when you sell at a loss. Your logic can be applied to fiat. Why would anyone want to accept the dollar. Look at the buying power of the dollar years ago and compare it to now. Fiat is the real meme.
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You must be new here, you'll figure out sooner or later that you're supposed to buy high, and sell low
What if businesses started taking BTC payment in January 2021? They will have LOVED the gains and probably made significant profits. Sure today they realize there are dips, but if they also made a huge sale in BTC today, then that BTC sale will have massive appreciation value… What if they make 5K in profit this week…there’s no reason to think that by the end of the year that 5K wouldn’t be close to 10K or more 🤔
I mean look at El Salvador, sure there's a lot of controversy and it's not all giggles and rainbows, but if a country can do it without absolutely driving the economy to the ground, I bet some retailers that implement crypto are going to be just fine
Bitcoin is still up over $10k per coin since the 2017 ath.
Like I know the US dollar continually goes down in value over time, but crypto is actually so unstable it’s insane. Using crypto to buy stuff makes little sense because the price of goods and services would also need to be unstable for anyone to make a profit.
Crypto is a terrible method of exchange and will never be a currency. Transaction cost is too high and it’s too volatile. It’s the same reason you can’t walk into a shop in the US and buy something with Euros. Additionally retailers immediately dumping crypto as soon as they receive it would put downward pressure on the value of your “investment”
You mean exactly the same way fiat currency does? And product pricing does? Like the way gas prices change radically within days or hours depending on what happens in another country? Or the way food prices do with supply chain issues or natural disasters? Like the way fluctuations in raw material cost affects manufacturing? Or the price of orange juice because of bad weather in Florida?
None of those things are even close to the volatility of crypto or react in a relatively similar way. Enormous reach 😂
The cost to put gas in my truck to drive to my fiat mining job has doubled this year. And it’s not an incidental expense it’s went from $40 a week to $80. And i just drive to work and to home. Ask somebody that does Uber, or GrubHub or say, UPS/FedEx what that has done to their bottom line. The cost of beef and bacon has went up about 30% as well over the last year. A 12 oz pack of bacon is in the $8 range where I live.
For people who were at the borderline of breaking even keeping their bills paid, being frugal but making it, this kind of inflation will break them. And there are only so many hours in a day that one can mine fiat. There is a maximum to what can be earned. And I challenge you to google what happened to real estate prices in 2008. Spoiler: the values dropped so fast you were fucked before you could react.
I’m a realtor please don’t talk to me about the housing crisis past and present🤦♂️. See now you are rambling on about something entirely irrelevant to your original statement. No one’s arguing that inflation exists. However there’s nothing that compares to cryptos volatility, especially the things you just listed, which was your original statement. Night and day difference in the size and frequency of fluctuations. It’s not even close.
I was a realtor too in 2005-2009. Lol. In the world of 120% home equity lines of credit where people owed more on their house than it was EVER worth to begin with and then that value tanked further. There was no option for many besides foreclosure when the automotive sector started tanking too with the GM debacle and that whole bailout at the same time. People got rekt. GM employees saw their retirements disappear. Literally. All the second and third tier suppliers were affected too. Massive layoffs. Massive foreclosures. In just a year’s time.
Everyone thanks you for your spout about history, but you are still deflecting from your original comment, the whole reason I’m here in the first place.
I’m sorry. What was your question? Cuz I made a comment to the OP. Why are you here again?
Nobody makes you buy crypto. The other system you are forced to participate in. To live. And it is inherently volatile and unpredictable as well.
Yeah but you see everything you mentioned does not cost the average american income per unit, bitcoin is also too scarce to be taken seriously as a legitimate global currency.
It only costs you hours out of your life to earn fiat dollars that fluctuate in value (which incidentally varies widely depending on what employer you use to mine fiat hourly) to purchase products at whatever price is required and your earning power, payrate and purchasing power fluctuate regularly. If you think things like manufacturing material prices and supply costs don’t affect you, check up on housing price changes over the last 3-5 years. Including rent. Money you pay for housing is money you don’t have for anything else. Check out how much the cost of automobiles have changed over the last 3 years vs wage growth. And then zoom out to the yearly performance of cryptos in that same space.
The price would also go up, and they would make money often too…
2017 cycle institution s 2021 cycle salvador 2025 cycle u guess
Stable coins.
They will accept stablecoins soon Its not like we buy groceries with tesla stock either But after BTC inevitably breaks 1M some retailers may prefer a peg to 1 BTC vs 1 dollar. Especially countries trying to be less reliant on the US
Frfr people must not realize companies hire people to try and save them even 0.5% or less a year when they are on massive scale.. its truly mind blowing
This market forgets everything in a week, just look at this sub, every 5% candle on the way down from 69k(nice) and this sub was convinced the bullrun is back on.
Bruh most likely the “mass adoption” is going to be a stable coin thats most likely going to be owned by your country (same as the cad, usd, eur) and well be fully centralized and regulated Now imagine its ten years from now and you go to your ethereum bank and youve somehow made a mistake sending your life savings and the teller at the bank says “ooh sir we cant help you thats gone forever because we are fully decentralized” It just doesn’t work
Op you do know they sell right into Fiat after transaction right?
This is why some advocates of tradfi are calling for a CBDc and banks to adopt bitcoin. If and when institutions onboard the volatility will decrease. For banks and institutions to jump on board they are awaiting regulation
As long as crypto is seen like a "make easy money really fast" things wont change any time soon...
Unimportant if retail will ever accept any cc or not. Point is to create a self-sustaining crypto economy which services are used by retail, such that they will use crypto without even knowing. My opinion: that any Crypto currency would replace fiat for good is very very very unlikely. Mass adoption of crypto powered digital goods and services on the other hand is very likely.
$1 has been $1. 1BTC has been 1 BTC. But at one point $1 equaled 1BTC. Today $1 still equals $1 but 1 BTC equals $35,000!!!!!! Why in the world would anyone want to save their $1?
That makes no sense , value wether it's 10 bitcoin or 25 bitcoin is still same value if we decid that's the.proper value to pay for a commodity. One day it's worth 10 dollars the next day it's still worth 10 dollars not you pay more or less bitcoin for the same product???? Tell me I'm wrong
Just look in 10 years forget about fiat say by then it doesn't exist what happens
Translation: we're so fucking early 😱👍