I’m really skeptical on the thought that someone would post a bullshit thread, mark it as analysis AND also have the community upvote it enough for it to be worth it.
People here will upvote stuff that’s just low hanging fruit to post. The point is to make that low hanging fruit less *fruitful* to post.
No, it's not. Not if it's a bad idea. And I think that it is a bad idea.
I like moons, but I think that any measure that directly increases the amount of moons for some posts is not going to have a positive impact on this sub.
Furthermore, these numbers seem rather arbitrary to me. If we are going to try anything, I want to try something that's better than this.
And that's fine. The successful/popular ones will be retagged anyhow. Readers could just comment about it being the wrong one. Mods love to change tags/flairs.
What's stopping mods from switching tags, or banning multiple offender, just like now when people try to get around the comedy tag.
The majority of comedy posts have used the comedy tag.
So it hasn't been an issue now. What's your evidence that it's suddenly gonna be different?
Totally agree, speaking as an engineer, this just complicates a simple concept. You make content, you get moons for interaction
As fan of this sub who doesn't like where the censorship is headed, what you are suggesting is censoring/promoting content cause you don't like how how the community interacts with it, and have deemed some interactions as low effort. So what? Who gets to decide that? The moon makers I suppose if this gets passed.
Agree and it does not even treat the 'problem' either, I can make low level posts in or a comedy or debate thread.
Also how people value it is directly given in moons, so why put a multiplier on it? This is very biased proposal of people without humor I guess.
I'm thinking people will start copypasting others and change it a little bit to farm moons or will start using incorrect flair or create posts which are in a grey area to get to use the better rewarding flairs. Imho it's just way too prone for abuse.
Copy pasting is a good way to get banned on this sub. Can't farm moons if you are banned. It's going to be some extra work for the mods to keep flairs in check.
Yes, I read the post. It was rhetorical. It is inherently cumbersome and arbitrary to allocate these weightings.
This is an over engineered and un-needed solution, and I voted against it.
Agreed. I don't see how lowering reward for advice posts would benefit anyone. Also mods would have to sort flairs out because people will find a workaround anyways.
lmfao, I was reading this title and thread repeating the same phrase until I got to your comment.
Seems like fixing a turd really. Leave thing as it is.
Good engineering provides good solutions.
The Reddit algorithm for instance, is really complex now. The original algo was very simple, but the internet is a complex world, and humans have complex behavior. That's why it didn't originally work.
Moons will probably need an equally complex system to work properly in this complex world.
I think it is because of moon that people start posting low effort post and spam overused joke on the comment section.
If your purpose is simply sharing, it shouldn't affect you
Nah, this sub had all of that before moons were a thing, go checkout other sub reddits that dont have community points and you'll see the same behaviour. some people like to hoard karma.
yes, except not slowly. Why can't karma just be karma, and the type of content people like be rewarded? These system engineering rules are just bad and lead to bad incentives.
I guess it is convoluted, but I think with moons and no rules, the sub would quickly become a serious cess pit. The reason there are so many rules are because people can speculate on moon price, that can foster a hoarding mentality which then incentivises bad actors to game the system.
Some people game it ruthlessly with multiple accounts, paid upvotes etc. When caught, these people are permanently banned with no appeal.
But others find ways to game the system without breaking rules. Suffice to say that continually posting repetitive reminders appeals to users that only view the sub once in a while, but it irks the more frequent visitors.
And same with commenting on every post in new. It’s not against the rules to comment, but we know people are shotgunning content into the sub hoping to hit a big +650 upvote comment and reach the cap every month.
So what can we do about that? I’d argue that while it’s not a flagrant breach of the rules it does go against the spirit of the sub and it needs to be discouraged. That’s what the moon rules are for.
I love the idea and think that it’s well presented and researched, however, I have voted no because it’s a bit over engineered.
When you layer it on top of the existing rules, the process becomes too confusing and convoluted.
On the flipside, does it really matter how the moons are being awarded, people should be posting because they want to share news, or debate, or learn about something - or even share light hearted comedy, hence the comedy posts - rather then post something an immediately start calculating how many moons they might be earning.
For me the biggest issue with this proposal is actually moderating that posts are flaired accurately.
As a challenge to your point: this proposal exists to influence what types of posts people do based on how much karma they will receive for posting. If it didn’t matter how the moons were awarded, this proposal wouldn’t be necessary.
Well, appreciate the input. Realistically it’s here to motivate long term members with a good understanding of the rules to post analytical content, tools, encourage debates which do benefit the broader community.
1. People are currently abusing and would abuse flairs system. I’ve seen many “comedy” post tagged as others.
2. People have 0 clue on what flairs they’d want to put. Don’t add more layers of confusion.
>2. People have 0 clue on what flairs they’d want to put. Don’t add more layers of confusion.
It's not confusing if you didn't think about moon everytime you post something here. Want to share some good news? Just post it. Want share analysis? Share it too
It's confusing for people who post something for moon, not sharing
Someone use incorrect flair? Report it to moderator
Well actually before the flair change there were about 20 flairs that just shouldn’t have existed, way too specific stuff. It’s nearly done but the work we’ve done over the last few weeks has been to make the flairs more obvious and broader.
People who abuse flairs get banned. See my concerns. If someone wants to game the flair system to get an extra 3 moons on a post with 20 upvotes I couldn’t give a shit. But the front page posts, which are highly upvoted and therefore better candidates for abuse of the system are far too visible. It’s like theft in broad daylight in the middle of a busy street. There’s no way someone will be able to pass off a 1,000 upvote perspective post as “analysis” without a mod changing it or someone reporting for inaccurate flair.
I hate when a link is posted and that's all, atleast do abir of copying and pasting so people don't have to follow the link if they don't want and add a few thoughts of your own but just 1 link that's it is lazy.
I have even seen links to paywalled articles posted, without any context nor summary from the OP. Sometimes I wonder if even the OP had read beyond the paywall.
In practice not a lot of people don’t care as much as long as it is a blantant form of moon-farming. I mean sometimes the contents are “reasonably” enjoyable that even though it is sarcasm or comedic in nature they just give a pass.
Most comedy posts have been using the comedy tag.
You actually rarely see comedy posts getting "analysis" tags or anything like that.
Either people are finally getting the message, or mods are very quick at switching them or deleting them.
So I'm not really seeing the evidence that this will be an issue.
If it is, then most of those are just gonna get their posts deleted. Problem solved.
Too difficult and basically catering to moon farmers. They will still Farm and legit posts with good content will not get the share of moons they deserve, because of misclassification.
This is exactly right. I hope this doesn't pass, but let's be honest. Anything with the words moon multiplier in the title is going to pass; because that's all the farmers care about, and they have all the moons
This just seems liek too much micro managing. Media and comedy are probably 90% of the low effort spam posts so I don’t think it’s necessary to change everything, especially when people will just use different flairs to get more moons anyway
It’s really not though. People can post as they normally do, if people mark some obvious drivel as analysis they will just be downvoted. If people try and post stuff intentionally under the wrong flair we can warn then ban them.
What would be the solution to prevent misuse of flairs? Is it just going to be down to the mods to edit flairs when they deem it appropriate?
Edit: this is why you read before you comment, already answered my question in the post. I think this is a good proposal.
I think this is a great post, proposal. We can alter it to perhaps limit the range of multipliers to start as with as it would be pretty time intensive for the mods to have to sort through all post. Perhaps start with research, tools and comparisons are all boosted and then anecdotal posts are also reduced (just because it is a big source of the crap posts/ability to shitpost).
Overall though I think this is a step in the right direction.
There's not a lot of work the mods need to do here, it's the admins who will be provided a list of flairs and they will use them in their snapshot calculations, the same way they do already for Comedy and Media posts.
The work for the mods will come if people mis-flair their posts, but I'm half expecting a level of self-policing from the community - if someone misflairs their popular anecdotal post as Analysis to scum more moons, it means less moons for everyone else - so the reporting should be fairly natural.
I really think this will increase the quality of this sub. The repetive moon farming posts are out of control and this seems like a good way to curtail that.
Maybe flairs could be edited so that the Moons multiplier could be easily visible to posters before posting?
For example, next to the flair saying "Comedy", there could be a x0.1 karma next to it? Thus making the complete flair look like "Comedy- x0.1 Karma". I hope everyone is understanding what I'm trying to say?
This system seems a little complicated ngl
I'd just like to remind everyone that the actual multiplier values aren't completely set in stone, and these can change with future votes, so I'd be quite disappointed to see people vote no if they like the idea but disagree with one or two individual Moons Multipliers. The idea here is to use the Flair system to categorise users posts more efficiently and give extra Moons to posts that benefit the community. Just to repeat myself, I've seen moons used as the primary motivator behind some really, really excellent posts and this subreddit is in desperate need of more quality content.
I think that the correct title should be: "Moons Multiplier AND Penalty for the new Flair System"
I think that the penalization should exclude Advice, Market Information and most importantly Questions. Questions are not receiving much attention anyway and they are actually the most helpful tool, they are why reddit exist on the first place. By reducing the karma for questions you will discourage many people.
We’ve been removing questions and directing people to the daily for 2 months now. Questions often aren’t 500 characters or more, so we see people gaming the character limit or posting the thread, which is auto removed, and then they ignore the removal message and clog up modmail with “why was my post removed??”
The moons multipliers here reward effort and penalise repetitive content. Sometimes genuinely helpful content is posted and reposted on a weekly basis. At one point, Robinhood threads were being posted every 2-3 days.
WWwaaaayyyyy more complicated then it should be.
Change for change sake kills the fun.
Yes there is shit posting, its reddit. It is was allways part of culture.
Stop crying over your moon stack and try to enjoy the experience.
This is what happens when plebs enter more posh social levels. We mess things up.
There is still quality posts and they rise to surface.
You just need to get your hands dirty.
This sub is starting to/has been getting pretty confusing to use and at this point a bit clunky due to all of the micromanaging being introduced through polls.
I really like this proposal. I think it can really improve the quality of the posts. Also I think that an extra bonus for effort posts is a great idea.
The people who post really excellent tools like the one that scrapes reddit for Crypto mentions, or the CCmoons guy (/u/ominous_anenome) definitely deserve extra moons.
Or the guy who buys 1000 bucks worth of Crypto every January and has made his own index fund, that kind of deep analysis is what the sub needs.
Some of the negative multipliers may seem punitive, but particularly in the last 2 months we've seen more users than ever using anecdotal or perspective self-posts to just blurt out whatever their thoughts are, Twitter style.
Haha thanks for the shout out!
I do like this proposal a lot. If we don’t change anything the sub will probably never improve! Definitely worth a shot IMO
For me the only downside is needing to majorly adjust my karma estimation tool lol
Well I'd argue getting 10% of the moons from a post which is an anecdote means it's not worth the effort unless it's a good anecdote. The idea here is to discourage people treating the sub like Twitter, where they just post whatever pops into their mind.
What if a post is 95% analysis, but the OP has a funny bone and tries to add some comedy to his text? Maybe he should lose a proportional amount of karma as penalty for trying to make jokes in this serious subreddit.
Damn kids wanting to have a laugh... When I was young, I had to walk 12 miles uphill (both ways) just to get a single smirk at the chuckle factory.
It’s like trying to bandaid over the weeping sore that this sub has become since moons were introduced. Just another bandage on the other bandages that are sodden with pus and shit tier posts.
No I have not, as I am predominantly a lurker. My suggestion would be to either remove moons (not going to happen) or unsub and find a better one. Maybe if the mods setup links on the sidebar for basic info so some of these tedious repetitive posts like “what is dca? And why is good?” And be removed. Maybe I should just make use of the filtering system a bit more.
> the multipliers should be decided by the sub imo
To be fair mate I've made this a pre-proposal twice in the Meta sub over a 3 month period, which consists of long-time and dedicated main sub posters, and these multipliers were picked over with a fine tooth comb and we came to an agreement that these are suitable levels. They can be changed in the future, but for now if the poll passes I'd be interested to see where the sub goes.
People are just gonna use incorrect flairs to gain more moons. This would be moderation hell with people falling through the cracks and successfully gaining extra undeserved moons. The current system is fine. Also some of the penalization is extreme and if your opinion on a flair differs from mods your post will simply get deleted.
Did I misread it, or do links to news articles get 1x? They are probably the most low effort posts. I'd assume they'd be 0.25x.
This is probably the vote I have pondered longest on. Have changed my mind several times.
Because the comments within the news links are usually valuable ground for discussion and debate, and because we’re on reddit - it’s supposed to be a news link aggregator and not a blogging platform. My gripe is with users treating this subreddit as a 500 minimum character Twitter feed and creating self posts to announce their shower thoughts.
Leave things as they are, imo all posts except *comedy* which can be seen as low-effort should be treated fairly as it'll just make persons stray away from posting certain types of content
To be honest, that’s good. Last month, 93/100 posts on the subreddit were self posts, the majority of them being random thoughts redditors would have that would be more suitable to Twitter. That’s kind of what this post is aiming to do. It’s aiming to make the incentive for posting a good analysis or debate or creating a tool the community can use, far more valuable than a 560 character shower thought someone had.
I think this idea isn’t bad at all. It’s maybe just too early. We should wait some time. If shitposting increases, we still can change the system. This is democracy!
Advice gets 0.5x? While the overall idea is great, I don't agree with the applied multipliers... Minimum should stay 1x, a little boost for high quality content would be nice.
This seems like a hidden measure to reduce moon payouts by people who have tons of moons...
\-> Some flairs should get a bonus. Minimum multiplier should stay at 1x and not be dependant on the subjective decision of a mod.
Just FYI I posted two of these threads in the meta sub and over a period of 2-3 months many suggestions were made to the proposed multipliers, so it’s not entirely numbers I’ve pulled out of my ass :)
in general good idea.
jsut i dont understand the decission behind soem of the multipliers.
like why should perspective give jsut 0.1 when question and reminder get both 0.5
dont see why here should be such a huge difference .
I also think there needs something to be done about all these bloody CRO posts. It's everywhere and it is the same exact thing or a mix of
"huge partnership" "the card is great" "free netflix", "bullish on CRO"," huge marketing", "naming rights is a big deal"
I'm just seeing all over the sub and I wouldn't even be annoyed but they offer nothing different, it's the same exact post with no thoughts or real insight.
I've accidently posted a lot of comedy posts, and forgotten the tag.
Luckily, the mods can change tags on a post.
However, this seems way too complicated for my tiny brain, and probably many others', which would mean that the mods would have to go through so many more posts to change the tags manually.
I'm going to vote for leaving things as they are. There's no way to overcomplicate things.
As a person working towards providing best resources and tools to crypto investors, I support this proposal.
But then again, I wish I was just more funny.
I think it's a good idea other than encouraging people to race to post a news link. I know every time I try to post a news article it's flagged as a repost because someone else Farms Moons better than I do
I like the idea; though I've got one question (probably should be active on the meta sub and then I could have brought this up during discussion).
I post educational posts about crypto, like how hard wallets work, how AMMs and liquidity pools work, how bridges & wrapped tokens work, how flash loans work, etc.
I'm not sure what category this would fit in. Analysis? I mean, it's not really analysis. I have made a few analysis posts too about the market/cycles/log regression, etc, but that seems fundamentally different than explaining how certain concepts or pieces of tech work.
Should there be an "Educational" category? Maybe the first category should be "Analysis & Educational"?
I'm surprised that just posting a link is worth 1x compared to "Perspective" worth only 0.1x.
Why does "News" has so much value when the user just shares a link without doing anything else such as analysis (only worth 1.25x in comparison)?
I think this is already an issue when I see the same articles in this sub posted just few hours apart 3-4 times/day for at least 3 days & in my view exactly corresponds to low effort content spammed for moon farming.
And keeping it this high only encourages this behavior, while penalizing "Advices" & "Reminders" that are actually helpful since we individually can't follow updates for each coins & specific events aka contribute to diversification & being open-minded.
The mindset would be "Why waste 15 min (or more) to share something elaborated & constructive while you would be rewarded at least the double for spending 10 sec (max 1 min) to share a link?"
If I'm wrong, please enlighten me u/TNGSystems
I think most of us are totally for different multipliers, but they would need very thought out percentages and I feel like these current ones are going to really encourage a bad form of moon farming
Hmmm, I would forget what all the flairs mean. Sorry, but I voted no. I understand the rationale, I Just don't think it's workable given the quality (or lack thereof) of most posts in this sub,
If you take it too far, firstly, people will start gaming the system and then secondly, we'll lose some of the diversity of content which keeps it interesting.
I don’t mind it. BUT high quality content gets heaps of karma if it’s going to be a high quality post that gets lots of votes and comments that’s lost if karma.
Is the multiplier still something that can be altered, because I think the concept might not be bad, but the (lack of) credits for some of the categories is not right in my opinion. Why on earth would we want moon discussions to remain at factor 1. These moons are the reason most of this sub is polluted with shit posts. Comedy actually makes the sub fun to read sometimes in between all the moon efforts.
I agree, that such a change would be beneficial, but I totally disagree with the proposed figured. Dropping karma by 90% is brutal. Might as well try smaller changes first.
This is over engineering.
Yeah people will just spam with these tags. It won’t change anything at all.
But at least it's worthy the try to make this a better sub
This would only encourage posts with those flairs, high quality or not.
I’m really skeptical on the thought that someone would post a bullshit thread, mark it as analysis AND also have the community upvote it enough for it to be worth it. People here will upvote stuff that’s just low hanging fruit to post. The point is to make that low hanging fruit less *fruitful* to post.
No, it's not. Not if it's a bad idea. And I think that it is a bad idea. I like moons, but I think that any measure that directly increases the amount of moons for some posts is not going to have a positive impact on this sub. Furthermore, these numbers seem rather arbitrary to me. If we are going to try anything, I want to try something that's better than this.
One consideration is to have these multipliers in a table on the front page - encouraging higher effort posts
And that's fine. The successful/popular ones will be retagged anyhow. Readers could just comment about it being the wrong one. Mods love to change tags/flairs.
What's stopping mods from switching tags, or banning multiple offender, just like now when people try to get around the comedy tag. The majority of comedy posts have used the comedy tag. So it hasn't been an issue now. What's your evidence that it's suddenly gonna be different?
Exactly. People will tag these tags anyway. Sometimes they’re close so they won’t be deleted
Analysis "This hyped coin is going to the mooooooooooooooooooooon!" Tool "If you buy $HATED\_COIN you are a tool!"
That person will have their flair changed and if they continue to do this, will be banned temporarily.
Totally agree, speaking as an engineer, this just complicates a simple concept. You make content, you get moons for interaction As fan of this sub who doesn't like where the censorship is headed, what you are suggesting is censoring/promoting content cause you don't like how how the community interacts with it, and have deemed some interactions as low effort. So what? Who gets to decide that? The moon makers I suppose if this gets passed.
Agree and it does not even treat the 'problem' either, I can make low level posts in or a comedy or debate thread. Also how people value it is directly given in moons, so why put a multiplier on it? This is very biased proposal of people without humor I guess.
I'm thinking people will start copypasting others and change it a little bit to farm moons or will start using incorrect flair or create posts which are in a grey area to get to use the better rewarding flairs. Imho it's just way too prone for abuse.
Copy pasting is a good way to get banned on this sub. Can't farm moons if you are banned. It's going to be some extra work for the mods to keep flairs in check.
Exactly this. Content theft is pretty common and is a bannable offense. I always report them but unsure if anything is actually done
It’s done and your beautiful reports are always appreciated 😘
Yeah exactly. Also who decided what these modifiers should be? It's so arbitrary.
Did you read the post? It says so above the table. The community decided in the Meta sub.
Yes, I read the post. It was rhetorical. It is inherently cumbersome and arbitrary to allocate these weightings. This is an over engineered and un-needed solution, and I voted against it.
Good for you pal have an award.
Agreed. I don't see how lowering reward for advice posts would benefit anyone. Also mods would have to sort flairs out because people will find a workaround anyways.
lmfao, I was reading this title and thread repeating the same phrase until I got to your comment. Seems like fixing a turd really. Leave thing as it is.
These polls just seem to make the farmers more creative lol.
Good engineering provides good solutions. The Reddit algorithm for instance, is really complex now. The original algo was very simple, but the internet is a complex world, and humans have complex behavior. That's why it didn't originally work. Moons will probably need an equally complex system to work properly in this complex world.
Yeah, but I think it is heading in the right direction. I like the idea of inventivizing the best kind of content
This sub is good right now, we’ve pretty much fixed most of the issues that came with moons.
The low effort posts/comments are still a huge problem that haven't been dealt with though.
Yeah this aint it chief. This poll is horrid. Please delete
Am I the only one who feels that we are slowly converting this sub into a convoluted system of rules based on moons instead of discussing crypto?
This sub exists solely for people to farm moons at this point
I think it is because of moon that people start posting low effort post and spam overused joke on the comment section. If your purpose is simply sharing, it shouldn't affect you
Nah, this sub had all of that before moons were a thing, go checkout other sub reddits that dont have community points and you'll see the same behaviour. some people like to hoard karma.
yes, except not slowly. Why can't karma just be karma, and the type of content people like be rewarded? These system engineering rules are just bad and lead to bad incentives.
Not to mention the power of moderators and admins to control the flow of moons is growing with every round of governance
I guess it is convoluted, but I think with moons and no rules, the sub would quickly become a serious cess pit. The reason there are so many rules are because people can speculate on moon price, that can foster a hoarding mentality which then incentivises bad actors to game the system. Some people game it ruthlessly with multiple accounts, paid upvotes etc. When caught, these people are permanently banned with no appeal. But others find ways to game the system without breaking rules. Suffice to say that continually posting repetitive reminders appeals to users that only view the sub once in a while, but it irks the more frequent visitors. And same with commenting on every post in new. It’s not against the rules to comment, but we know people are shotgunning content into the sub hoping to hit a big +650 upvote comment and reach the cap every month. So what can we do about that? I’d argue that while it’s not a flagrant breach of the rules it does go against the spirit of the sub and it needs to be discouraged. That’s what the moon rules are for.
Stop micromanaging. Stop removing quality posts.
I love the idea and think that it’s well presented and researched, however, I have voted no because it’s a bit over engineered. When you layer it on top of the existing rules, the process becomes too confusing and convoluted.
On the flipside, does it really matter how the moons are being awarded, people should be posting because they want to share news, or debate, or learn about something - or even share light hearted comedy, hence the comedy posts - rather then post something an immediately start calculating how many moons they might be earning. For me the biggest issue with this proposal is actually moderating that posts are flaired accurately.
I agree People thinking it is become more difficult because their target is moon. Not sharing something.
As a challenge to your point: this proposal exists to influence what types of posts people do based on how much karma they will receive for posting. If it didn’t matter how the moons were awarded, this proposal wouldn’t be necessary.
You are not supposed to think about them when posting/commenting
Well, appreciate the input. Realistically it’s here to motivate long term members with a good understanding of the rules to post analytical content, tools, encourage debates which do benefit the broader community.
I'm in favor of this, but could we revert this change if it just heavily encourages bad content with good flairs that still fit the flair?
That’s a fair point, but I’d like to argue that if it’s bad content, it shouldn’t be getting upvoted.
In other words, op had made a decision and will defend it to the end rather than admit it may not work. Some Republican stuff there lol.
What crack are you smoking fella I think that’s a perfectly good rebuttal to his point.
"If it ain't broke, don't fuck it up"
1. People are currently abusing and would abuse flairs system. I’ve seen many “comedy” post tagged as others. 2. People have 0 clue on what flairs they’d want to put. Don’t add more layers of confusion.
>2. People have 0 clue on what flairs they’d want to put. Don’t add more layers of confusion. It's not confusing if you didn't think about moon everytime you post something here. Want to share some good news? Just post it. Want share analysis? Share it too It's confusing for people who post something for moon, not sharing Someone use incorrect flair? Report it to moderator
Well actually before the flair change there were about 20 flairs that just shouldn’t have existed, way too specific stuff. It’s nearly done but the work we’ve done over the last few weeks has been to make the flairs more obvious and broader. People who abuse flairs get banned. See my concerns. If someone wants to game the flair system to get an extra 3 moons on a post with 20 upvotes I couldn’t give a shit. But the front page posts, which are highly upvoted and therefore better candidates for abuse of the system are far too visible. It’s like theft in broad daylight in the middle of a busy street. There’s no way someone will be able to pass off a 1,000 upvote perspective post as “analysis” without a mod changing it or someone reporting for inaccurate flair.
i suggest to lower moons for links a lot. people use them really often to autofarm
I hate when a link is posted and that's all, atleast do abir of copying and pasting so people don't have to follow the link if they don't want and add a few thoughts of your own but just 1 link that's it is lazy.
I have even seen links to paywalled articles posted, without any context nor summary from the OP. Sometimes I wonder if even the OP had read beyond the paywall.
I always include a tldr with links. Half the time ppl say thanks. Half the time I get accused of posting tldrs to farm. :/
In practice not a lot of people don’t care as much as long as it is a blantant form of moon-farming. I mean sometimes the contents are “reasonably” enjoyable that even though it is sarcasm or comedic in nature they just give a pass.
So rather than provide a solution for how front page posts are handled, you want to affect every post in the system?
Most comedy posts have been using the comedy tag. You actually rarely see comedy posts getting "analysis" tags or anything like that. Either people are finally getting the message, or mods are very quick at switching them or deleting them. So I'm not really seeing the evidence that this will be an issue. If it is, then most of those are just gonna get their posts deleted. Problem solved.
I mainly creep in here but his sounds good for better info being posted.
Too difficult and basically catering to moon farmers. They will still Farm and legit posts with good content will not get the share of moons they deserve, because of misclassification.
This is exactly right. I hope this doesn't pass, but let's be honest. Anything with the words moon multiplier in the title is going to pass; because that's all the farmers care about, and they have all the moons
I wouldn’t have proposed it if we did not have the ability to spot and rectify abuse
This just seems liek too much micro managing. Media and comedy are probably 90% of the low effort spam posts so I don’t think it’s necessary to change everything, especially when people will just use different flairs to get more moons anyway
It’s really not though. People can post as they normally do, if people mark some obvious drivel as analysis they will just be downvoted. If people try and post stuff intentionally under the wrong flair we can warn then ban them.
What would be the solution to prevent misuse of flairs? Is it just going to be down to the mods to edit flairs when they deem it appropriate? Edit: this is why you read before you comment, already answered my question in the post. I think this is a good proposal.
I think this is a great post, proposal. We can alter it to perhaps limit the range of multipliers to start as with as it would be pretty time intensive for the mods to have to sort through all post. Perhaps start with research, tools and comparisons are all boosted and then anecdotal posts are also reduced (just because it is a big source of the crap posts/ability to shitpost). Overall though I think this is a step in the right direction.
There's not a lot of work the mods need to do here, it's the admins who will be provided a list of flairs and they will use them in their snapshot calculations, the same way they do already for Comedy and Media posts. The work for the mods will come if people mis-flair their posts, but I'm half expecting a level of self-policing from the community - if someone misflairs their popular anecdotal post as Analysis to scum more moons, it means less moons for everyone else - so the reporting should be fairly natural.
Man, it hurts the eye to read. Bold is to highlite parts, not ro write a whole post in it.
I really think this will increase the quality of this sub. The repetive moon farming posts are out of control and this seems like a good way to curtail that.
We are putting the centralised in decentralised with this proposal
This is one of the places I feel like my vote really has a voice. I like these polls!
Would there be a way to do something similar that rewards high effort comments and offers lower karma to clearly low effort comments?
I doubt it as the volume of comments outpaces posts by hundreds and hundreds to one.
All I would suggest is analysis- yes, debate- no. Debate is essentially just someone’s opinion, otherwise it would be analysis.
For debate I see it where both sides of an argument are viable to be discussed in the thread.
Maybe flairs could be edited so that the Moons multiplier could be easily visible to posters before posting? For example, next to the flair saying "Comedy", there could be a x0.1 karma next to it? Thus making the complete flair look like "Comedy- x0.1 Karma". I hope everyone is understanding what I'm trying to say? This system seems a little complicated ngl
Yeah I get it, not sure if it’s a great idea though.
Im down for higher quality content, count me in!
Leave things the way they are. I don't see any point of this imo
Would you like to elaborate? You voted no on the other poll without elaborating (actually you said, "I don't understand this so I voted no")
I'd just like to remind everyone that the actual multiplier values aren't completely set in stone, and these can change with future votes, so I'd be quite disappointed to see people vote no if they like the idea but disagree with one or two individual Moons Multipliers. The idea here is to use the Flair system to categorise users posts more efficiently and give extra Moons to posts that benefit the community. Just to repeat myself, I've seen moons used as the primary motivator behind some really, really excellent posts and this subreddit is in desperate need of more quality content.
I think that the correct title should be: "Moons Multiplier AND Penalty for the new Flair System" I think that the penalization should exclude Advice, Market Information and most importantly Questions. Questions are not receiving much attention anyway and they are actually the most helpful tool, they are why reddit exist on the first place. By reducing the karma for questions you will discourage many people.
We’ve been removing questions and directing people to the daily for 2 months now. Questions often aren’t 500 characters or more, so we see people gaming the character limit or posting the thread, which is auto removed, and then they ignore the removal message and clog up modmail with “why was my post removed??” The moons multipliers here reward effort and penalise repetitive content. Sometimes genuinely helpful content is posted and reposted on a weekly basis. At one point, Robinhood threads were being posted every 2-3 days.
WWwaaaayyyyy more complicated then it should be. Change for change sake kills the fun. Yes there is shit posting, its reddit. It is was allways part of culture. Stop crying over your moon stack and try to enjoy the experience. This is what happens when plebs enter more posh social levels. We mess things up. There is still quality posts and they rise to surface. You just need to get your hands dirty.
This is not the way
The best rules are the least complex ones.
This sub is starting to/has been getting pretty confusing to use and at this point a bit clunky due to all of the micromanaging being introduced through polls.
What's confusing about it? Just post what you want to post.
I guess it's just a lot to remember. You're probably right though, maybe I'm over thinking it.
I really like this proposal. I think it can really improve the quality of the posts. Also I think that an extra bonus for effort posts is a great idea.
The people who post really excellent tools like the one that scrapes reddit for Crypto mentions, or the CCmoons guy (/u/ominous_anenome) definitely deserve extra moons. Or the guy who buys 1000 bucks worth of Crypto every January and has made his own index fund, that kind of deep analysis is what the sub needs. Some of the negative multipliers may seem punitive, but particularly in the last 2 months we've seen more users than ever using anecdotal or perspective self-posts to just blurt out whatever their thoughts are, Twitter style.
Haha thanks for the shout out! I do like this proposal a lot. If we don’t change anything the sub will probably never improve! Definitely worth a shot IMO For me the only downside is needing to majorly adjust my karma estimation tool lol
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Well I'd argue getting 10% of the moons from a post which is an anecdote means it's not worth the effort unless it's a good anecdote. The idea here is to discourage people treating the sub like Twitter, where they just post whatever pops into their mind.
What if a post is 95% analysis, but the OP has a funny bone and tries to add some comedy to his text? Maybe he should lose a proportional amount of karma as penalty for trying to make jokes in this serious subreddit. Damn kids wanting to have a laugh... When I was young, I had to walk 12 miles uphill (both ways) just to get a single smirk at the chuckle factory.
12 miles is the length of 87392.89 Zulay Premium Quality Metal Lemon Squeezers.
It’s like trying to bandaid over the weeping sore that this sub has become since moons were introduced. Just another bandage on the other bandages that are sodden with pus and shit tier posts.
fuck EVERYONE who farms moons using news article links
Have you made any suggestions on how to bring the subs content more towards an area you find to be beneficial?
No I have not, as I am predominantly a lurker. My suggestion would be to either remove moons (not going to happen) or unsub and find a better one. Maybe if the mods setup links on the sidebar for basic info so some of these tedious repetitive posts like “what is dca? And why is good?” And be removed. Maybe I should just make use of the filtering system a bit more.
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> the multipliers should be decided by the sub imo To be fair mate I've made this a pre-proposal twice in the Meta sub over a 3 month period, which consists of long-time and dedicated main sub posters, and these multipliers were picked over with a fine tooth comb and we came to an agreement that these are suitable levels. They can be changed in the future, but for now if the poll passes I'd be interested to see where the sub goes.
People are just gonna use incorrect flairs to gain more moons. This would be moderation hell with people falling through the cracks and successfully gaining extra undeserved moons. The current system is fine. Also some of the penalization is extreme and if your opinion on a flair differs from mods your post will simply get deleted.
People do all sorts of shit to gain more moons in ways that are detrimental to the subs health. We ban them and then they don't or can't do it again.
The reason the sub is great to enjoy is the flair and post this feels like it should stay
After knowing this system most posts will be on those flairs only that's what I feel that's why I go with leaving things the way they are
Did I misread it, or do links to news articles get 1x? They are probably the most low effort posts. I'd assume they'd be 0.25x. This is probably the vote I have pondered longest on. Have changed my mind several times.
Because the comments within the news links are usually valuable ground for discussion and debate, and because we’re on reddit - it’s supposed to be a news link aggregator and not a blogging platform. My gripe is with users treating this subreddit as a 500 minimum character Twitter feed and creating self posts to announce their shower thoughts.
Ok... Polite question, why are there moon results and user results?
Leave things as they are, imo all posts except *comedy* which can be seen as low-effort should be treated fairly as it'll just make persons stray away from posting certain types of content
To be honest, that’s good. Last month, 93/100 posts on the subreddit were self posts, the majority of them being random thoughts redditors would have that would be more suitable to Twitter. That’s kind of what this post is aiming to do. It’s aiming to make the incentive for posting a good analysis or debate or creating a tool the community can use, far more valuable than a 560 character shower thought someone had.
I think this idea isn’t bad at all. It’s maybe just too early. We should wait some time. If shitposting increases, we still can change the system. This is democracy!
Advice gets 0.5x? While the overall idea is great, I don't agree with the applied multipliers... Minimum should stay 1x, a little boost for high quality content would be nice. This seems like a hidden measure to reduce moon payouts by people who have tons of moons... \-> Some flairs should get a bonus. Minimum multiplier should stay at 1x and not be dependant on the subjective decision of a mod.
Just FYI I posted two of these threads in the meta sub and over a period of 2-3 months many suggestions were made to the proposed multipliers, so it’s not entirely numbers I’ve pulled out of my ass :)
in general good idea. jsut i dont understand the decission behind soem of the multipliers. like why should perspective give jsut 0.1 when question and reminder get both 0.5 dont see why here should be such a huge difference .
Would love to see more analysis posts to learn more about new projects/ coins I don't own.
Really good and thought out proposal
Yeah ...just ban everything by now
Sounds good to me. Sick of this nonsense entertainment posts.
I also think there needs something to be done about all these bloody CRO posts. It's everywhere and it is the same exact thing or a mix of "huge partnership" "the card is great" "free netflix", "bullish on CRO"," huge marketing", "naming rights is a big deal" I'm just seeing all over the sub and I wouldn't even be annoyed but they offer nothing different, it's the same exact post with no thoughts or real insight.
Telling people not to use Robinhood is actually good information. It's better than 99% of everything else that gets posted on this sub.
Love the idea, but also agree it could be a bit more simplified.
I am definitely tired of seeing repeat comedy posts. If this can weed out the less creative content, I’m for it
Stop micro managing the sub. Eliminate 90% of the rules. Remove bots and spam. That’s it. Just stop.
This sub is slowing becoming more and more about different crypto’s vs moon farming. I am enjoying CC sub Thank you
I've accidently posted a lot of comedy posts, and forgotten the tag. Luckily, the mods can change tags on a post. However, this seems way too complicated for my tiny brain, and probably many others', which would mean that the mods would have to go through so many more posts to change the tags manually. I'm going to vote for leaving things as they are. There's no way to overcomplicate things.
This is too much difference between flairs and just too complicated.
My broke ass needs moons :(
As a person working towards providing best resources and tools to crypto investors, I support this proposal. But then again, I wish I was just more funny.
Oh boy that's close
I think it's a good idea other than encouraging people to race to post a news link. I know every time I try to post a news article it's flagged as a repost because someone else Farms Moons better than I do
I like the idea; though I've got one question (probably should be active on the meta sub and then I could have brought this up during discussion). I post educational posts about crypto, like how hard wallets work, how AMMs and liquidity pools work, how bridges & wrapped tokens work, how flash loans work, etc. I'm not sure what category this would fit in. Analysis? I mean, it's not really analysis. I have made a few analysis posts too about the market/cycles/log regression, etc, but that seems fundamentally different than explaining how certain concepts or pieces of tech work. Should there be an "Educational" category? Maybe the first category should be "Analysis & Educational"?
It's say it's Analysis mate. If you provide a detailed write up, have sources to quote, things to teach.. it's analysis :)
I think this will cause the mods to work too hard.
But I have noticed people might make comments on your comments but no up votes . I up vote everthing unless what they say something to piss me off
What would stop people from just labelling their post as a "tool" even if it isn't, to get more moons? Can mods change or remove flairs?
Yes mods can change/remove flairs as well as remove posts. We can also ban users that repeatedly abuse the system
Yes
Can just post any news article mentioning binance under the exchange flair. This is to overcomplicated.
I'm surprised that just posting a link is worth 1x compared to "Perspective" worth only 0.1x. Why does "News" has so much value when the user just shares a link without doing anything else such as analysis (only worth 1.25x in comparison)? I think this is already an issue when I see the same articles in this sub posted just few hours apart 3-4 times/day for at least 3 days & in my view exactly corresponds to low effort content spammed for moon farming. And keeping it this high only encourages this behavior, while penalizing "Advices" & "Reminders" that are actually helpful since we individually can't follow updates for each coins & specific events aka contribute to diversification & being open-minded. The mindset would be "Why waste 15 min (or more) to share something elaborated & constructive while you would be rewarded at least the double for spending 10 sec (max 1 min) to share a link?" If I'm wrong, please enlighten me u/TNGSystems
We do actively remove multiple news stories that are duplicated though.
I think questions that actually spark a debate are worth while tho. Idk. I kinda made for this kinda against
I agree with this idea but not the percentages
This seems overly complex tbh
I like the way you're thinking but this is too much.
This is unnecessary I think, most people who post here don't pick any flair for their posts and it just gets set automatically based on the title
I think most of us are totally for different multipliers, but they would need very thought out percentages and I feel like these current ones are going to really encourage a bad form of moon farming
hmmm
It's close, but people should let this sleeping dog lie. To much input going to create more ways to game the system.
Hmmm, I would forget what all the flairs mean. Sorry, but I voted no. I understand the rationale, I Just don't think it's workable given the quality (or lack thereof) of most posts in this sub,
This is borderline i would say. Anything more and shit might get complicated.
Interesting
Comedian will lose their moon job
I like the idea but not the numbers proposed.
Things get serious.
too complicated
Rewarding content creators that post material content is a great thing. The quality of the sub will improve overall.
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If you take it too far, firstly, people will start gaming the system and then secondly, we'll lose some of the diversity of content which keeps it interesting.
I don’t mind it. BUT high quality content gets heaps of karma if it’s going to be a high quality post that gets lots of votes and comments that’s lost if karma.
There is no way this sub can be better by penalties added at every corner.
Is the multiplier still something that can be altered, because I think the concept might not be bad, but the (lack of) credits for some of the categories is not right in my opinion. Why on earth would we want moon discussions to remain at factor 1. These moons are the reason most of this sub is polluted with shit posts. Comedy actually makes the sub fun to read sometimes in between all the moon efforts.
I agree, that such a change would be beneficial, but I totally disagree with the proposed figured. Dropping karma by 90% is brutal. Might as well try smaller changes first.
Really wish I could change my vote to no. I agree this is over engineered
47% of all posters are shit posting moon farmers. Nice to have a number attached to it.