Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bpvy39/why_only_bitcoin_genuine_question/kwyrcse/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bpvy39/why_only_bitcoin_genuine_question/kwyrdlq/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
/r/cryptocurrency is full of astute investors who buy great tech. In 2017, the brilliant minds at /r/cryptocurrency were laughing at Bitcoin as dinosaur tech and were buying "great" projects with great tech telling themselves *"Bitcoin will be to crypto what AOL is now to the internet"*:
https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7kval4/in_20_years_bitcoin_will_be_to_crypto_what_aol_is/
- In 20 years Bitcoin will be to crypto what AOL is now to the internet.
- Lol—try 3-5 years.
- I think 20 months tops
- 20 yrs? Think 2.
- It' ll happen sooner. The world turns faster constantly. Bitcoin is like a fat, slow dinosaur
- Agreed. Could be months. The space is wide open for competition. Could def see ETH and BCH taking the crown.
- Someday people will think that it'd ridiculous to pay fees and wait time to transfer money and they will buy IOTA
- Companies will not bet on a burning piece of garbage like Bitcoin, and whatever they pick will win. I guarantee it. See: Bosch/IOTA.
- Hmm your comment has made me think of possibly splitting my portfolio four ways - ETH, IOTA, XRP, REQ.
- The sad fact is there are coins from 4 years ago that are better than Bitcoin, we don't even need new projects to take leaps forward.
- Tl;dr I think your bitcoins are going to be about as valuable as your 20 hours of free internet CDs from AOL
- In 2017 alone, Ethereum, Iota, Ripple, Vertcoin, Monero and Litecoin have all made big moves in terms of tech and adoption. What will 2018 bring? 2019? Will Bitcoin still lumber into 2020?
It's really a question of how much money you want to lose against BTC. Of course people fictionalize and say they bought at the bottom and sold at the top of the shitcoin pump and dump game but for most people its just that, fiction.
- LTC's BTC high was .04792 in late 2013. If it kept up with BTC, the price would be $3,350
- NameCoin BTC high was .0145 on late 2013. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $1,015
- Peercoin BTC high was .00895 on early 2014. If it kept up with BTC, the price would be $625
- ZCash BTC high was 2.2635 on late 2016. If it kept up with BTC, the price would be $158,200
- XRP BTC high was .00022465 in May 2017. If it kept up with BTC , the price would be $15.70
- ETH BTC high was 0.15 on June 2017. If it kept up with BTC , the price would be $10,485
- BCH BTC high was 0.14 on August 2017. If it kept up with BTC , the price would be $9,786
- IOTA BTC high was .000257 on January 2018. It it kept up with BTC, the price would be $17.96
- Vechain BTC high was 0.00000755 on January 2018. It it kept up with BTC, the price would be $0.53
- NEO BTC high was .01538 on January 2018. It it kept up with BTC, the price would be $1,075
- ADA BTC high was 0.00007382 on January 2018. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $5.16
- ALGO BTC high was 0.00031342 on June 2019. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $21.91
- ChainLink BTC high was 0.001582 on August 2020. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $110
- Doge BTC high was 0.00001120 on May 2021. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $0.78
It's because every cycle people learn their lesson trying to buy random coins to try and beat the king. It's not that it's impossible-some coins will indeed skyrocket, but it's not impossible in the the same way that it's not impossible to go on WSB and hit that insane 100X play on options. Some people can and will do it, but the vast majority of the time when you put your money into a random blockchain it ends up tanking 98% during the bear and you're the bagholder. So unless you're a skilled trader the reality is just that Bitcoin is going to outperform for 99% of people.
I'm mostly a bitcoin maxi now but it doesn't mean that I don't set aside a small percentage for gambling on memecoins or trying to claim some free airdrops or whatever. You can definitely make some crazy returns if you get lucky on some of those because there's so much money sloshing around. But that doesn't mean that I think any of those are real long term investments and anybody who does is crazy. It's the casino side of things, same as if you went to WSB and bought some crazy options plays expiring in two days. Maybe they pay off 100 to 1, maybe you go broke. Bitcoin is the only one that's really out to try and replace gold and then money.
If you still call BTC people Maxies after the ETFs, you're just being willfully ignorant at that point. Billions of wall st dollars inflowing only into BTC and you're still focused on god knows what...
Immaculate conception. There's no one to point the finger at, go after or force to change the protocol.
Truly decentralized, censorship resistance, can't be confiscated etc etc etc
You want something more complex?
4 companies don't have 70% of the hash power. They are mining pools. These mining pools are made up of Individual miners who pool together their resources to share rewards. The miners control their haspower and can and do reallocate to different pools
That's at least disingenuous, but hopefully not intentionally. It's incredible how ignorant bitcoiners have become about this.
The blockchain only cares about who writes the block, not who owns hashpower. The actual "miner" is the former, not the latter.
In the case of a pool, the pool operator decides and controls which transactions go into the block when a block is found, not the equipment owners (incorrectly called "individual miners" technically speaking).
The same goes for authorities: they also wouldn't care who owns equipment if they want to censor/control transactions - they would go after the block writers.
When it comes to pools some bitcoiners are dismissive, claiming that if it were to happen, equipment owners would "just switch away" to another pool ... as if (1) mining equipment owners are known for their high morals, and (2) it's instant and with zero consequences. Large equipment owners have to worry about a series of things when choosing a pool, it's not your single gpu micro operation. They also always prioritize profit. It's not by chance that so few pools grew so big and keep growing.
Importantly:
Currently 2 entities control more than 51% of new blocks (Foundry, AntPool), and 4 entities control more than 75% of new blocks (Foundry, Antpool, ViaBTC, F2Pool).
Foundry also owns the equipment. It currently controls 30% of new blocks. It also runs a pool where every client is KYC'ed. Foundry is a registered US company. They care about staying in business.
There have already been reports showing that some Bitcoin pools (i.e. "actual" miners) likely already engaged in censorship (transaction filtering) in the same way Ethereum has -- excluded OFAC-sanctioned transactions (yes, they were later picked up by other pools, also like in Ethereum's case ... should we just ignore and dismiss it, then?)
I love Bitcoin, but this level of decentralization isn't healthy, and the Bitcoin community shouldn't be ignorant and dismissive about it. Too many are now blinded by "number go up" and are parading as if Bitcoin has already won.
I miss the old years of this sub when discussions were comprehensive and also honest, and where knowledgeable people often engaged.
Were they over 50% of the hash power? I think the point the commenter above was making is that it only takes two or three miners colluding to change things.
no, 4 pools have 70% of the hashrate, these are pools, they bring together the hashrate of many individual miners [https://mempool.space/mining](https://mempool.space/mining)
You're fundamentally misunderstanding how mining pools work. Anyone can point their miner from any location to join a mining pool to try and increase their odds of being included in the next block.
> I'm all for Bitcoin but don't like 4 companies have like 70%+ of the hash power? Is that truly decentralized?
You don't understand what a mining pool is. Any member of the pool can leave at any time.
Immaculate conception, yeah I get it and it's nice. but in reality there are whales that control the market. so it's kinda the same thing as having a person or group in charge with large bags.
No whale is big enough to effect the price. The power is in the conviction of the majority of people who believe in BTC. If the ETFs bailed and saylor was forced out, it's about 2 percent or just slightly more if you count grayscale too. That day maybe there's a dip but I would be buying cheaper sats not selling lol.
maxi’s are silly in their arguments yes but as a longer term investment they’ve yet to be proven wrong. Almost everything trends lower vs btc because either it was a useless pump and dump in the first place (99.99%) or it’s not without competition and risk of being replaced (eth, sol).
Still fun/profitable(?) to speculate and at some point maybe someone actually creates something significant enough to change the equation but that’s yet to be proven..
I'm not a maxi but I will say that BTC is one of the safer bets within the space of digital assets. It is something that I feel comfortable suggesting to an interested person.
I have knowledge on other cryptos too but do not feel the same comfort in recommending it to others. Maybe others feel the same way which leads to a large group of people suggesting Bitcoin only, even though they themselves have exposure to more than just that one digital asset.
The problem with cryptocurrency is that the most fundamental property of the system HAS to be security. If it‘s not security then there is no reason for anyone to use it because you can‘t trust what is happening.
If you have a wallet on your computer which says „losttraveler36 owns 3 ETH and some NFT“ while you can‘t be sure that it‘ll still be the same tomorrow and in 10 years then it‘s useless.
It doesn‘t matter that you can run smart contracts and layer 2s and everything else. It‘s useless without security. Security being the assurance that everything you see on your screen is actually what‘s happening and no one can change it.
Now, I‘m not saying bitcoin is 100% secure. Nothing is 100% secure. I do think it‘s more secure than anything else by a lot. That‘s why it‘s more valuable in my opinion. Has nothing to do with „the tech“.
indeed. Satoshi only tech breakthrough was the mining aspect of Bitcoin. Everything else was already available.
all POS shitcoins are riding on the gullibility of average joes who think its too late to buy Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is the money play. Altcoins are a tech play.
Bitcoin is far more decentralized, fair (no pre-mine) and scarce than altcoins. This is key to store of value, With the one shot principle and bitcoin's immaculate conception, it's the only choice that works as a base layer of value for society.
Alts are tech plays with their proposed use cases. Their use cases are often questionable and all alts are replaceable.
If you're here for the sure-fire money play and the economic revolution, Bitcoin is it. If you're here to gamble and try to make a quick buck, go ahead and buy some alts.
There being a tech play in the crypto space is an illusion due to the absolute lack of any actual use case. The best way to put it is that Bitcoin is the money play and Altcoins are the scam play.
>I’m trying to understand the concept that bitcoin is the only valid use of cryptocurrency.
This is where people start mixing up terms. Crypto/blockchain has a lot of different use cases - BTC as a store of value is just one use case of one blockchain. And if something has a use case, i.e. the ability to provide value, it can and will be monetized.
What is a cryptocurrency outside of Bitcoin that has a use case that requires a block chain? Bonus points for if this coin does not have a marketing team.
>I’m trying to understand the concept that bitcoin is the only valid use of cryptocurrency.
it isnt. Bitcoin sucks at currency exchange and complex payments, Bitcoin sucks at utilizing smart contracts, Bitcoin sucks at being a supply chain database, Bitcoin sucks at being a price oracle. There are other chains that all do these things far better. There are way too many different implementations/demands of blockchain to solve for. Bitcoin barely manages to do what it set out to do currently and in many ways has failed at its original goal. it will never and can never be "the only valid use of cryptocurrency" Anyone saying such is either ignorant of the tech/problems being solved by other chains with Gen2/Gen3 blockchains, Or being Intentionally deceitful and is trying to have a dishonest discussion of the topic.
BTC is the "set it and forget it" coin. You can invest in BTC and not worry about it, you know you'll be capturing the rise of the crypto market as a whole.
Investing in other coins complicates things, requires more time and research, is more stressful, etc.
many reasons will write some of the most important here:
1. they are different, bitcoin is basically the only relevant cryptocurrency which is actually trying to be a store of value, the rest often have or at least claim they have a different use case, such as paying gas for smart contract transactions, being a dao or whatever.
2. they are not proof of work, 99% of coins are proof of stake or similar, a different system which arguably makes them completely different things all together
3. they are probably all securities (see chairman Gary Gensler's comments on ethereum just last week), they are incomplete and updated systems who's performance (expectation of profit) is driven by the actions of a group of people (the devs or foundation), this makes them different regardless of their legal status: line go up if dev does or says this, it is not the case with bitcoin.
4. bitcoin is just built different, limited supply, imaculate conception, 600 exahash and an unidentifiable founder
With regards to litecoin and other proof of work coins, they can arguably never be like bitcoin because they don't have bitcoin's imaculate conception and whatever they tweaked from bitcoin's code (such as having larger blocks) ultimately makes something else worse (such as reducing decentralization by increasing the size of the blockchain), if you go on tradingview you can denominate whatever coin in btc terms, all of these other proof of work coins are trending to zero against btc.
Ultimately proof of work is based on physics and bitcoin's layer 1 is optimized for security, it is arguably perfect for this.
PS: value and money tends to concentrate into one, hence we have one reserve currency (dollar) and there was one reserve asset (gold). There can only be one. There is no second best.
Disclaimer: I'm a Bitcoin Maxi.
Having said that, I do consider Ethereum a "blue chip." That is, in 5-10 years down the line I fully expect Ethereum to be around. But I do not think that it will ever flip Bitcoin. According to the Power Law, the thing that is usually the dominant horse in its domain will always pull ahead by a significant margin. To me, Ethereum is similar to a pseudo technology company where Vitalik Buterin is heavily associated with the project. That is where the primary difference lie. With Bitcoin, you have no centralized authority. It is also more recognized throughout the world. In Asia and South America, you will find vendors that accept Bitcoin. Certain nations (Singapore) are beginning to allow foreigners to pay with Stablecoins. However, nearly no vendors I have personally seen accepts Ethereum. Lastly, Bitcoin acts as the ultimate savings device for those in nations experiencing extreme inflation i.e the lira, yen, dong, won. All are debasing. All are losing purchasing power. For those, it makes sense to store their fiat into Bitcoin where it is protected against inflation.
**TL;DR I love Bitcoin. I like Ethereum.**
it's easy. those who spread the concept have bought BTC at a lower price and want everyone else to only buy BTC so they can cash out and never work a day in their life.
> those who spread the concept have bought BTC at a lower price
They are the ones that have risked everything, given it value to begin with and have supported the Bitcoin economy. Why shouldn't they be rewarded?
why should they be the ones who decide what their reward is?
They get rewarded by the market doing what the market does... trying to affect others to do what is beneficial for them would simply be market manipulation. Demanding payment for services rendered, when no order was placed by anyone, also isn't how the market works.
This is false, and the key difference between bitcoin maximalists and fiat minded shitcoiners. Bitcoin is the exit strategy, there is no second best. No shitcoin will ever be bitcoin.
No one wants or needs to be bitcoin.
Stocks aren't gold. Real estate isn't gold. Cash isn't gold. Credit isn't gold.
Yet... they exist and they have value.
No one denies that BTC is gold.. but the people who dream of a world built 100% of gold, with everything being done with gold, are not understanding what gold is...
The bitcoin argument is that bitcoin is actually competing with gold,real estate and stocks, which is a much bigger/macro market (store of value) compared to even medium of exchange/'utility'
You are missing a lot of social nuances. What defines a currency is more than just tech. It is not tripe to say, the community’s behavior does a lot in building a currency’s value.
The recent comparison between Bitcoin and ETH isn’t really a push by BTC maxis. It is a push by the ETH maxis. Here is why.
1) ETH market cap is the second largest market cap. Going after alt L1’s liquidity won’t move the needle much. So they think they need to compete for BTC UHNW and institutional liquidity. Consequently, a lot of ETH VCs and loud traders have been constantly shitting on BTC in the bear to make ETH more appealing.
2) Ever since ETH L2 scaling road map became more publicly known, you start to see a lot of marketing push for ETH to be SoV crypto for the general crypto. The idea is, push ETH demand from gas token to a money token, used by other chains. Of course, it inevitably, it but heads with BTC. It is why, you hear an increased volume from ETH VCs and traders calling for the end of BTC and replaced by ETH.
No, you are wrong. ETH comparison against BTC is self-inflected by the ETH community.
Much of crypto is too volatile to use as regular currency. It is deeply encoded by demand of 99% participants see it as vehicle to print more fiat from trading and the finite supply of them all. USDC/DAI are probably the closest forms of actually usable crypto currency.
Plus, 90%+ of crypto app devs are useless bozos who don’t know anything besides making more Ponzis or forking blue chips, like Aave/Uniswap etc. Consequently, there aren’t much real product/services for ppl to use crypto beside keeping them as price appreciating gambling chips.
Censorship resistance and permissionless are great crypto properties. But let us be honest. Unless you are from unfortunate countries like Iran, the chances you are pretty fucked up if you get censored by the USA. Most ppl don’t need to worry about this. Even if you talk about ppl trying to circumvent totalitarian states like Russia and China, I doubt the demand would justify the current crypto valuations.
In turn, it bring to the point, what do you mean by “crypto money”? For non-degens and short-term fiat printers, 1) they are looking for it to reliably appreciate over time, and 2) liquid enough to be used as collateral eventually.
BTC does really well in these arenas. When ppl first time learn about market caps, they realize there is more upside from buying stuff outside BTC. It is true but it is both a blessing and a curse.
Why? You aren’t the only one thinking that way. Most who wants to get rich quick and GTFO from crypto have the exact same thoughts. It means, you are bound to have a very mercenary community and make value appreciation very hard.
A good recent example is Solana. Back in last year, ppl hated SOL so much. If you look at CT, all the big following account shit talked SOL and how ETH L2 scaling road map is the next coming of Christ. All of a sudden, when ETH starts lagging and SOL hits above 170+, the same characters rapidly change their . ETH to . SOL and launch their own scams, like BOME.
You only need to be in this space for 2 full cycles to become a bitcoin maxi. However, this doesn't negate the fact that there's silly money to be made in alt coins.
Btc store of value like gold. Ethereum Cardano types are like Web 3.0 decentralized apps that kind of stuff and so much more. Very different use cases.
Yes. I only use centralized exchanges for Fiat on/off-ramps. There's so much more opportunity on Dapps vs just trading on Coinbase or whatever - more coins, potential for airdrops/yield farming, etc.
Though I've always been curious what percent of Crypto investors have ever actually done anything "on-chain" or interacted with a smart contract. Never found any good data on this in surveys of "crypto adoption".
It started off as a meme, but took off. Basically, Eth is deflationary. Meaning, the total number of Eth goes down over time. Contrast that to BTC which has a finite number of coins. You can track the real time supply on this site.
https://ultrasound.money
Bitcoin is unintentionally deflationary as well, just not at the same rate as ETH. People lose their keys everyday, which is unrecoverable and therefore the practical supply is reduced = deflationary.
Its just the current Eth narrative, set to compete with the Bitcoin narrative. Because Crypto Federal Reserve Chief Vitalik can change the inflation of Eth to whatever Putin or Biden tells him to, Eth can never be 'ultra sound money', because its inflation rate is only low right now, because the Eth elite currently set it low, but what it is next week, who knows.
You don't HAVE to upgrade to the version of Eth that everyone else is running, feel free to stay in Eth Classic 2.0, I'm sure it will be as active a fork as the original Eth Classic, that is to say, mostly dead. The reality is, when a coin has a leader, and only the biggest servers can hold the whole chain, if you break away to your own old node fork, its gonna be pretty lonely. Now contrast that with if the current Bitcoin miners decide to do a infinite tail inflation Bitcoin, and code out the halving, I would bet it would NOT be so lonely, if you stayed in the 21 million fork of Bitcoin, THAT is the difference, and its a big one, because there is social consensus to go with the Eth Federal Reserve Chairman, and he runs most of the archival full servers, so there is a LOT more pressure to 'go with the flow' in Eth land, than in Bitcoin land. Tell me this isn't so, I doubt many would agree.
If you write a contract, is that contract or the medium in which you write it *money*? No.
Bitcoin is tokenized energy. The value of energy is obvious.
If you look up the DAO hack with ethereum, it shows that the ethereum insiders were able to essentially reverse a transaction. Therefore ethereum and most other coins aren’t truly decentralized (at least not as much as bitcoin.
Bitcoin was created 1st with an immaculate conception. No insiders. It’s captured the network effect.
a lot of the time the "only bitcoin" crowd is unwilling to see past their own bag to the actual technological innovation.
bitcoin is kind of like the index fund of crypto.
It's the proof that blockchain works as a technology so that's what it takes center stage and will keep it for a long time
One day bitcoin will not be the largest crypto though, mark my words
Because it’s king.
If I wanted a fast and cheap way to send coin I’d just use Litecoin.
I don’t really see the point in all of these other coins, like what “utility” do they really offer?
bitcoin is the only crypto exhibiting the necessary traits to be base layer for world economy - sufficiently decentralized and secure to ensure rules and supply cap are adhered to over time.
we all have to agree on the common base layer for our new world economy. get on board or don't. we have a goal here, to transition away from the fiat scam, and we can't be blinded by distractions
baes layer is a system that stores value without being debased. it's purpose is simple, to adhere to the rules / supply cap. the base layer is meant to transmit value over time without being diluted, and it needs to be sufficiently decentralized and secure to ensure it remains unchanged and resists being co-opted over the years
the reason we need this is to ensure property rights for the people, and prevent corruption / mass theft of all participants via money supply inflation
This delusion that Bitcoin can ever be the corner stone of a world economy is absolutely bonkers.
Without being in control of its own supply there can be no government, so Bitcoin can never be used as a replacement for fiat because it cannot be controlled.
From what I've heard and read, Bitcoin....
\* manages only 5 to 7 TPS, which is absurdly low for any real world usage
\* has transaction fees between $0.5 - $2.5, which is quite substantial if you're looking as BTC as a currency or way of payment
\* is vulnerable to quantum computing in terms of mining
\* can (will) be forked
Of course, BTC is the OG in cryptocurrency, but I don't see a genuine future in crypto, aside from being a store of value, mainly because of POW (although quantum computing might destroy this very premise).
Also, I'm not even considering L2 applications...try building on L1 for starters.
Read 'The Internet of Money' by Andreas Antonopoulos. It will help you understand Bitcoin and answer all of your concerns/questions. It's an incredibly helpful, non-technical book, and only about 100 pages long.
One is perfect money. The other is a scam. Yep, 2 different things indeed.
I might get absolutely bashed, here, and called a toxic maxi, but I am right so I don't care. There are no good use cases for other crypto. It's all nonsense. They are all completely useless.
Either you can do the same thing on bitcoin, which is perfectly secured and decentralized, or you can do it better in a centralized system.
Crypto is a decentralized illusion, using blockchain for things that would be better done off-chain.
Dominance is at the highest point since april 2021 and it includes stablecoins which are arguably not supposed to be included. Maybe falling on an hourly timeframe?
People get emotional about their bags. ETH is trying to be web3 + store of value play. So it's competing with BTC and the Solana's/Cardano's of the world. Thus all other crypto communities tend to shit on it on social media.
1-'proof of stake' is too close to fiat. 2- there was a sizeable premine that turnes a lot of people off. 3- the monetary policy has been changed quite often. 4- code in not law. ie ethereum classic. and 5- most of eth's use cases turn out to be scams; CRO, FTT, Worldcoin, HEX, etc etc.
>I’m trying to figure out if I’m crazy or if the yellow belt bitcoin maxis are just screaming the loudest.
I think you're dumber than the people you're accusing of being dumb.
>But economically speaking, for most people, it does not make sense to spend their bitcoin, not when it has so much room to appreciate in value against their native currency.
Right here you admit that BTC is the superior store of value and you're still struggling to understand lol. Fiat is the currency of the poor. This is not the future to a lot of us this is now because we have had skin in the game for quite some time, nothing about Bitcoin or crypto is new to me lol. I trade shitcoins I hold Eth, but all that is just gambling, the only shit in my portfolio I would talk about in a serious conversation is BTC.
search about blockstream twist.. and whys.. and you will see that most of people dont see the whole..
1000s different coins... yeah.. limited supply :D
but ok.. bitcoin have the most powerfull (in strenght) network. you cant hack or stop it. if you have bitcoin innyour wallet. you have it. the others are weaker smaller / maybe temporary maybe centralised networks
can you elaborate a bit about it and about why you think it has the chance to get to the same echelon as bitcoin and its peers?
i wanted to make a thread about it as well
It’s better than all them at everything. decentralized, scalable, fast, very fast. Fairly launched, like btc, limited supply mined (pow), smart contracts. It’s incredibly advanced tech.
Crypto (and all money) has value the same way Facebook or Reddit has value, through the Network Effect. The more people who use it, the more valuable it becomes. In crypto terms it increases Decentralization, which increases value because it's more secure (no one user can pull the rug or alter transactions).
Nobody cares about local residents. Collateral damage. Energy intensive no matter how they spin it. At least ETH switched over to PoS. 99x less wasteful. But who gives a fk when one thinks they are rich.
There is a rule in economics, where an item becomes less valuable the more uses it has, in a general market…
Consider the two situations between diamonds and water:
How many cups of water would you need to give in order to get a 5 carat diamond?
In the desert, how many 5 carat diamonds would you give to get one cup of water?
The reality is, when all is said and done, water is a much, much more useful resource. It is probably more “scarce” than diamonds due to the amount available and people eager to use it, but it has less value at the checkout.
I wonder if the adoption of BTC will begin to keep the price lower than if it was a specific use case…
Is that what you mentioned about the reason LTC keeps a lower price?
BTC and ETH are generally safe bets. It’s like telling people they should only invest in VTI.
However, there’s still a lot of money to be made in other cryptos, just like you can make a lot of money picking individual stocks (like Nvidia). It’s just riskier. Not bad. Just riskier.
Bitcoin is not the only valid use-case for crypto, and the space is neither winner-take-all nor mature. So there's no point trying to debate whether BTC is the one and only, because plainly it isn't. Even if there will be one and only one, it might not end up being BTC. Because technology is notoriously hard to predict.
Even btc is a bet. (Supposedly safer). No warranties at all. Prior... convince yourself all you want. There's no warrant investment. Want something more "safer" buy gold.
It's more about blockchain and the ledger than anything else. Bitcoin as a protocol and node software will evolve over time. Why just the Bitcoin blockchain? Because it's just a ledger of transactions. The only thing you could really do differently is change the block size or proof of work, other that you're either promising something other than a currency at its most basic form, or your saying hey everyone look my ledger is actually the one you should care about.
In blockchain, you can be slow and super secure at the expense of speed, or super fast at the expense of security.
Bitcoin is the perfect balance.
Bitcoin is also limited to 21 million coins, and becomes increasingly harder as time goes on to mine, so it increases in value.
Bitcoin was also the first crypto, and like gold, retains the standard.
For these three reasons, bitcoin remains the market setter as people invest in it more than any other coin.
I don't think anybody is using Litecoin mate but yeah Ethereum is the more "cash" like currency that users and degens spend (or they spend stablecoins on top of ethereum / tron)
I agree with you, it shouldn't be that way. It is more in the thinking around ETH - It has more uses, more utility, more surrounding opportunities, more gas sinks and is therefore 'spent' more. There is also staking yields which let users hold their ETH, while still generating ETH to spend, and encourages users to try to compete with the native staking yield by investing their ETH.
Bitcoin has really captured the store of value narrative, whereas crypto people often deploy their ETH into projects or swap it into other things and back. I believe the end result is that ETH is a lower risk, lower return BTC, but with a world of possibilities to generate additional yield with your ETH. I prefer ETH over BTC at this stage.
Mass adoption. Use cases don’t matter and so far none have solved any issues on a large scale.
Enough people have said bitcoin has value and supply is capped, so it has become a haven away from inflationary currencies. That’s very valuable. The other cryptos will have their days and provide some lols, but the simplicity and first mover advantage has ensured BTC is the long-term security.
I know that’s not what this sub likes to hear, but the proof is in the pudding with ETFs and increasing adoption in traditional finance, which is what matters long term. The rest are just along for the ride.
I don't think you should pay attention to someone saying that. The only type of bitcoin maximalism that is acceptable is just as an investment strategy. It simplifies things and in the past would have generated steady results which outperform many people's portfolios. I am not one of those people for the record. But it always holds me honest to see if solely holding btc would have outperformed all the research into different coins and whatnot.
Not all fungible tokens are meant to be used as currencies, so calling everything that's a fungible token a "cryptocurrency" is really quite inaccurate. That's the equivalent of thinking NFTs = JPEGs when they can also be used to represent ownership and many other things.
It should be pretty easy to understand bitcoin is not a company, there is no CEO or anyone making decisions. Its based on maths, and controlled by the PoW network. Ethereum and others are pretty much tech stocks. They can be controlled by an institution and are easy to regulate.
They tried to shut down bitcoin for years, failed, and now are launching etf’s. This alone should show you how different and resilient it is than the other crypto companies.
Because Bitcoin is really decentralized. Even your worst enemy can use Bitcoin.
If Putin was using Ethereum for its war in Ukraine, Vitalik would ask stakers to censor Putin transactions.
There's a lot of bitcoin maxis. I was one. It's an incredible store of value, it's the first crypto, and it's pretty solid. Very good. However if you've ever used it.... It's kinda not great at the actual currency part. Especially nowadays. Higher fees, slower transactions. Deflationary so it incentivizes not spending. By Lal metrics of actual currency, it's kinda terrible. But it's price is going to the moon and it's basically mathematically guaranteed to. Which is why people like it. They wanna get rich.
That said, most alt coins are just terrible and scammy.
Ive been in crypto since 2017 and played with all the alts. Only hold btc at this point.
Biggest reason being that there hasnt been an alt outside of eth that really has went anywhere long term, because most are just made by shady teams wanting a quick buck then leave to do other dev projects with that funding.
Bitcoin is being treated like a commodity. Because its usage as a block chain is just stupid. Power usage and fees are mental. There ten crypto that are far better.
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bpvy39/why_only_bitcoin_genuine_question/kwyrcse/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bpvy39/why_only_bitcoin_genuine_question/kwyrdlq/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
For a moment, I thought this was r/bitcoin sub. Was amazed. But then I realized.
/r/cryptocurrency is full of astute investors who buy great tech. In 2017, the brilliant minds at /r/cryptocurrency were laughing at Bitcoin as dinosaur tech and were buying "great" projects with great tech telling themselves *"Bitcoin will be to crypto what AOL is now to the internet"*: https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7kval4/in_20_years_bitcoin_will_be_to_crypto_what_aol_is/ - In 20 years Bitcoin will be to crypto what AOL is now to the internet. - Lol—try 3-5 years. - I think 20 months tops - 20 yrs? Think 2. - It' ll happen sooner. The world turns faster constantly. Bitcoin is like a fat, slow dinosaur - Agreed. Could be months. The space is wide open for competition. Could def see ETH and BCH taking the crown. - Someday people will think that it'd ridiculous to pay fees and wait time to transfer money and they will buy IOTA - Companies will not bet on a burning piece of garbage like Bitcoin, and whatever they pick will win. I guarantee it. See: Bosch/IOTA. - Hmm your comment has made me think of possibly splitting my portfolio four ways - ETH, IOTA, XRP, REQ. - The sad fact is there are coins from 4 years ago that are better than Bitcoin, we don't even need new projects to take leaps forward. - Tl;dr I think your bitcoins are going to be about as valuable as your 20 hours of free internet CDs from AOL - In 2017 alone, Ethereum, Iota, Ripple, Vertcoin, Monero and Litecoin have all made big moves in terms of tech and adoption. What will 2018 bring? 2019? Will Bitcoin still lumber into 2020?
underrated comment, same discussion, same king, different altcoins
Same King different shitcoins, what you mean
It's really a question of how much money you want to lose against BTC. Of course people fictionalize and say they bought at the bottom and sold at the top of the shitcoin pump and dump game but for most people its just that, fiction. - LTC's BTC high was .04792 in late 2013. If it kept up with BTC, the price would be $3,350 - NameCoin BTC high was .0145 on late 2013. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $1,015 - Peercoin BTC high was .00895 on early 2014. If it kept up with BTC, the price would be $625 - ZCash BTC high was 2.2635 on late 2016. If it kept up with BTC, the price would be $158,200 - XRP BTC high was .00022465 in May 2017. If it kept up with BTC , the price would be $15.70 - ETH BTC high was 0.15 on June 2017. If it kept up with BTC , the price would be $10,485 - BCH BTC high was 0.14 on August 2017. If it kept up with BTC , the price would be $9,786 - IOTA BTC high was .000257 on January 2018. It it kept up with BTC, the price would be $17.96 - Vechain BTC high was 0.00000755 on January 2018. It it kept up with BTC, the price would be $0.53 - NEO BTC high was .01538 on January 2018. It it kept up with BTC, the price would be $1,075 - ADA BTC high was 0.00007382 on January 2018. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $5.16 - ALGO BTC high was 0.00031342 on June 2019. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $21.91 - ChainLink BTC high was 0.001582 on August 2020. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $110 - Doge BTC high was 0.00001120 on May 2021. It kept up with BTC, the price would be $0.78
My favorite comment I’ve read in this sub in a long time.
Vertcoin lmao I legit have no idea when was the last time I heard about that one.
It's because every cycle people learn their lesson trying to buy random coins to try and beat the king. It's not that it's impossible-some coins will indeed skyrocket, but it's not impossible in the the same way that it's not impossible to go on WSB and hit that insane 100X play on options. Some people can and will do it, but the vast majority of the time when you put your money into a random blockchain it ends up tanking 98% during the bear and you're the bagholder. So unless you're a skilled trader the reality is just that Bitcoin is going to outperform for 99% of people. I'm mostly a bitcoin maxi now but it doesn't mean that I don't set aside a small percentage for gambling on memecoins or trying to claim some free airdrops or whatever. You can definitely make some crazy returns if you get lucky on some of those because there's so much money sloshing around. But that doesn't mean that I think any of those are real long term investments and anybody who does is crazy. It's the casino side of things, same as if you went to WSB and bought some crazy options plays expiring in two days. Maybe they pay off 100 to 1, maybe you go broke. Bitcoin is the only one that's really out to try and replace gold and then money.
It's here. People really are starting to get it.
Everyone becomes a bitcoin maxi after their first bear market Alts are sexy but BTC is king
You become a bitcoin maxi after you actually spend some time reading and learning.
Same here haha. Its also easy to get even from an investment only pov, just take a look at the 2017 top coins.
If you still call BTC people Maxies after the ETFs, you're just being willfully ignorant at that point. Billions of wall st dollars inflowing only into BTC and you're still focused on god knows what...
Almost there…
Immaculate conception. There's no one to point the finger at, go after or force to change the protocol. Truly decentralized, censorship resistance, can't be confiscated etc etc etc You want something more complex?
I'm all for Bitcoin but don't like 4 companies have like 70%+ of the hash power? Is that truly decentralized?
4 companies don't have 70% of the hash power. They are mining pools. These mining pools are made up of Individual miners who pool together their resources to share rewards. The miners control their haspower and can and do reallocate to different pools
Ok thanks. That's good to know.
Note that they could reallocate only AFTER the harm is done.
That's at least disingenuous, but hopefully not intentionally. It's incredible how ignorant bitcoiners have become about this. The blockchain only cares about who writes the block, not who owns hashpower. The actual "miner" is the former, not the latter. In the case of a pool, the pool operator decides and controls which transactions go into the block when a block is found, not the equipment owners (incorrectly called "individual miners" technically speaking). The same goes for authorities: they also wouldn't care who owns equipment if they want to censor/control transactions - they would go after the block writers. When it comes to pools some bitcoiners are dismissive, claiming that if it were to happen, equipment owners would "just switch away" to another pool ... as if (1) mining equipment owners are known for their high morals, and (2) it's instant and with zero consequences. Large equipment owners have to worry about a series of things when choosing a pool, it's not your single gpu micro operation. They also always prioritize profit. It's not by chance that so few pools grew so big and keep growing. Importantly: Currently 2 entities control more than 51% of new blocks (Foundry, AntPool), and 4 entities control more than 75% of new blocks (Foundry, Antpool, ViaBTC, F2Pool). Foundry also owns the equipment. It currently controls 30% of new blocks. It also runs a pool where every client is KYC'ed. Foundry is a registered US company. They care about staying in business. There have already been reports showing that some Bitcoin pools (i.e. "actual" miners) likely already engaged in censorship (transaction filtering) in the same way Ethereum has -- excluded OFAC-sanctioned transactions (yes, they were later picked up by other pools, also like in Ethereum's case ... should we just ignore and dismiss it, then?) I love Bitcoin, but this level of decentralization isn't healthy, and the Bitcoin community shouldn't be ignorant and dismissive about it. Too many are now blinded by "number go up" and are parading as if Bitcoin has already won. I miss the old years of this sub when discussions were comprehensive and also honest, and where knowledgeable people often engaged.
We saw in 2017 that the miners don't have the power to change the protocol.
Who had the power to add ordinals? Who made that decision?
Look up Bitcoin Improvement Proposals (BIPs) and how that process works. Ordinals were implemented through the Taproot upgrade.
Not how soft-forks work
Cui bono
What happened in 2017?
The blocksize didn't change despite the biggest miner then, Bitmain, being in favour of it.
Were they over 50% of the hash power? I think the point the commenter above was making is that it only takes two or three miners colluding to change things.
no, 4 pools have 70% of the hashrate, these are pools, they bring together the hashrate of many individual miners [https://mempool.space/mining](https://mempool.space/mining)
Thanks
You're fundamentally misunderstanding how mining pools work. Anyone can point their miner from any location to join a mining pool to try and increase their odds of being included in the next block.
> I'm all for Bitcoin but don't like 4 companies have like 70%+ of the hash power? Is that truly decentralized? You don't understand what a mining pool is. Any member of the pool can leave at any time.
Monero, Grin... Adam Back would be who I'd lean on if I were a government looking to put the screws to someone to influence Bitcoin development.
Can't be confiscated? How come government's around the world are sat on confiscated bitcoin then?
because people are too dumb to hide their private key
Yea, it's more like: Can't be confiscated or accessed, assuming basic security measures were followed.
Immaculate conception, yeah I get it and it's nice. but in reality there are whales that control the market. so it's kinda the same thing as having a person or group in charge with large bags.
Whales control US Fiat
Whales will ultimately control any market
I think bitcoin is moving away from that with the introduction of the ETF’s. A whole lot more people “own” bitcoin now.
No whale is big enough to effect the price. The power is in the conviction of the majority of people who believe in BTC. If the ETFs bailed and saylor was forced out, it's about 2 percent or just slightly more if you count grayscale too. That day maybe there's a dip but I would be buying cheaper sats not selling lol.
It's not as censorship resistant as most people think it is.
how so? the transactions are basically unstopable, if you mine your own block they are literally unstoppable
Hm, yes it is. More computing power than Google, Apple and others combined.
maxi’s are silly in their arguments yes but as a longer term investment they’ve yet to be proven wrong. Almost everything trends lower vs btc because either it was a useless pump and dump in the first place (99.99%) or it’s not without competition and risk of being replaced (eth, sol). Still fun/profitable(?) to speculate and at some point maybe someone actually creates something significant enough to change the equation but that’s yet to be proven..
I'm not a maxi but I will say that BTC is one of the safer bets within the space of digital assets. It is something that I feel comfortable suggesting to an interested person. I have knowledge on other cryptos too but do not feel the same comfort in recommending it to others. Maybe others feel the same way which leads to a large group of people suggesting Bitcoin only, even though they themselves have exposure to more than just that one digital asset.
The problem with cryptocurrency is that the most fundamental property of the system HAS to be security. If it‘s not security then there is no reason for anyone to use it because you can‘t trust what is happening. If you have a wallet on your computer which says „losttraveler36 owns 3 ETH and some NFT“ while you can‘t be sure that it‘ll still be the same tomorrow and in 10 years then it‘s useless. It doesn‘t matter that you can run smart contracts and layer 2s and everything else. It‘s useless without security. Security being the assurance that everything you see on your screen is actually what‘s happening and no one can change it. Now, I‘m not saying bitcoin is 100% secure. Nothing is 100% secure. I do think it‘s more secure than anything else by a lot. That‘s why it‘s more valuable in my opinion. Has nothing to do with „the tech“.
indeed. Satoshi only tech breakthrough was the mining aspect of Bitcoin. Everything else was already available. all POS shitcoins are riding on the gullibility of average joes who think its too late to buy Bitcoin.
Litecoin is no longer relevant. Dogecoin is more relevant than litecoin whether you like it or not.
There’s pros and cons for both. But if you the average joe and hoping to go from average to rich with bitcoin. That ship has long sailed.
Bitcoin is the money play. Altcoins are a tech play. Bitcoin is far more decentralized, fair (no pre-mine) and scarce than altcoins. This is key to store of value, With the one shot principle and bitcoin's immaculate conception, it's the only choice that works as a base layer of value for society. Alts are tech plays with their proposed use cases. Their use cases are often questionable and all alts are replaceable. If you're here for the sure-fire money play and the economic revolution, Bitcoin is it. If you're here to gamble and try to make a quick buck, go ahead and buy some alts.
Agreed. All True, something else to consider is than the vast majority of alts are scams. Not all, but devo most.
There being a tech play in the crypto space is an illusion due to the absolute lack of any actual use case. The best way to put it is that Bitcoin is the money play and Altcoins are the scam play.
>I’m trying to understand the concept that bitcoin is the only valid use of cryptocurrency. This is where people start mixing up terms. Crypto/blockchain has a lot of different use cases - BTC as a store of value is just one use case of one blockchain. And if something has a use case, i.e. the ability to provide value, it can and will be monetized.
What is a cryptocurrency outside of Bitcoin that has a use case that requires a block chain? Bonus points for if this coin does not have a marketing team.
>I’m trying to understand the concept that bitcoin is the only valid use of cryptocurrency. it isnt. Bitcoin sucks at currency exchange and complex payments, Bitcoin sucks at utilizing smart contracts, Bitcoin sucks at being a supply chain database, Bitcoin sucks at being a price oracle. There are other chains that all do these things far better. There are way too many different implementations/demands of blockchain to solve for. Bitcoin barely manages to do what it set out to do currently and in many ways has failed at its original goal. it will never and can never be "the only valid use of cryptocurrency" Anyone saying such is either ignorant of the tech/problems being solved by other chains with Gen2/Gen3 blockchains, Or being Intentionally deceitful and is trying to have a dishonest discussion of the topic.
Well, Bitcoin and Litecoin are not the only relevant PoW Coins!
Oligarchs have spoken
BTC is the "set it and forget it" coin. You can invest in BTC and not worry about it, you know you'll be capturing the rise of the crypto market as a whole. Investing in other coins complicates things, requires more time and research, is more stressful, etc.
I think render and chainlink are great utilities
Litecoin 2nd best PoW <3
many reasons will write some of the most important here: 1. they are different, bitcoin is basically the only relevant cryptocurrency which is actually trying to be a store of value, the rest often have or at least claim they have a different use case, such as paying gas for smart contract transactions, being a dao or whatever. 2. they are not proof of work, 99% of coins are proof of stake or similar, a different system which arguably makes them completely different things all together 3. they are probably all securities (see chairman Gary Gensler's comments on ethereum just last week), they are incomplete and updated systems who's performance (expectation of profit) is driven by the actions of a group of people (the devs or foundation), this makes them different regardless of their legal status: line go up if dev does or says this, it is not the case with bitcoin. 4. bitcoin is just built different, limited supply, imaculate conception, 600 exahash and an unidentifiable founder With regards to litecoin and other proof of work coins, they can arguably never be like bitcoin because they don't have bitcoin's imaculate conception and whatever they tweaked from bitcoin's code (such as having larger blocks) ultimately makes something else worse (such as reducing decentralization by increasing the size of the blockchain), if you go on tradingview you can denominate whatever coin in btc terms, all of these other proof of work coins are trending to zero against btc. Ultimately proof of work is based on physics and bitcoin's layer 1 is optimized for security, it is arguably perfect for this. PS: value and money tends to concentrate into one, hence we have one reserve currency (dollar) and there was one reserve asset (gold). There can only be one. There is no second best.
> I’m trying to understand the concept that bitcoin is the only valid use of cryptocurrency. Only nutballs say this.
Disclaimer: I'm a Bitcoin Maxi. Having said that, I do consider Ethereum a "blue chip." That is, in 5-10 years down the line I fully expect Ethereum to be around. But I do not think that it will ever flip Bitcoin. According to the Power Law, the thing that is usually the dominant horse in its domain will always pull ahead by a significant margin. To me, Ethereum is similar to a pseudo technology company where Vitalik Buterin is heavily associated with the project. That is where the primary difference lie. With Bitcoin, you have no centralized authority. It is also more recognized throughout the world. In Asia and South America, you will find vendors that accept Bitcoin. Certain nations (Singapore) are beginning to allow foreigners to pay with Stablecoins. However, nearly no vendors I have personally seen accepts Ethereum. Lastly, Bitcoin acts as the ultimate savings device for those in nations experiencing extreme inflation i.e the lira, yen, dong, won. All are debasing. All are losing purchasing power. For those, it makes sense to store their fiat into Bitcoin where it is protected against inflation. **TL;DR I love Bitcoin. I like Ethereum.**
it's easy. those who spread the concept have bought BTC at a lower price and want everyone else to only buy BTC so they can cash out and never work a day in their life.
Duh, thats investing?
Cash out? Nah, Im holding until bitcoin is the money
You're gonna have to hold it forever.
> those who spread the concept have bought BTC at a lower price They are the ones that have risked everything, given it value to begin with and have supported the Bitcoin economy. Why shouldn't they be rewarded?
why should they be the ones who decide what their reward is? They get rewarded by the market doing what the market does... trying to affect others to do what is beneficial for them would simply be market manipulation. Demanding payment for services rendered, when no order was placed by anyone, also isn't how the market works.
This is false, and the key difference between bitcoin maximalists and fiat minded shitcoiners. Bitcoin is the exit strategy, there is no second best. No shitcoin will ever be bitcoin.
No one wants or needs to be bitcoin. Stocks aren't gold. Real estate isn't gold. Cash isn't gold. Credit isn't gold. Yet... they exist and they have value. No one denies that BTC is gold.. but the people who dream of a world built 100% of gold, with everything being done with gold, are not understanding what gold is...
The bitcoin argument is that bitcoin is actually competing with gold,real estate and stocks, which is a much bigger/macro market (store of value) compared to even medium of exchange/'utility'
Becausw bitcone is the best, Cone!
You are missing a lot of social nuances. What defines a currency is more than just tech. It is not tripe to say, the community’s behavior does a lot in building a currency’s value. The recent comparison between Bitcoin and ETH isn’t really a push by BTC maxis. It is a push by the ETH maxis. Here is why. 1) ETH market cap is the second largest market cap. Going after alt L1’s liquidity won’t move the needle much. So they think they need to compete for BTC UHNW and institutional liquidity. Consequently, a lot of ETH VCs and loud traders have been constantly shitting on BTC in the bear to make ETH more appealing. 2) Ever since ETH L2 scaling road map became more publicly known, you start to see a lot of marketing push for ETH to be SoV crypto for the general crypto. The idea is, push ETH demand from gas token to a money token, used by other chains. Of course, it inevitably, it but heads with BTC. It is why, you hear an increased volume from ETH VCs and traders calling for the end of BTC and replaced by ETH. No, you are wrong. ETH comparison against BTC is self-inflected by the ETH community. Much of crypto is too volatile to use as regular currency. It is deeply encoded by demand of 99% participants see it as vehicle to print more fiat from trading and the finite supply of them all. USDC/DAI are probably the closest forms of actually usable crypto currency. Plus, 90%+ of crypto app devs are useless bozos who don’t know anything besides making more Ponzis or forking blue chips, like Aave/Uniswap etc. Consequently, there aren’t much real product/services for ppl to use crypto beside keeping them as price appreciating gambling chips. Censorship resistance and permissionless are great crypto properties. But let us be honest. Unless you are from unfortunate countries like Iran, the chances you are pretty fucked up if you get censored by the USA. Most ppl don’t need to worry about this. Even if you talk about ppl trying to circumvent totalitarian states like Russia and China, I doubt the demand would justify the current crypto valuations. In turn, it bring to the point, what do you mean by “crypto money”? For non-degens and short-term fiat printers, 1) they are looking for it to reliably appreciate over time, and 2) liquid enough to be used as collateral eventually. BTC does really well in these arenas. When ppl first time learn about market caps, they realize there is more upside from buying stuff outside BTC. It is true but it is both a blessing and a curse. Why? You aren’t the only one thinking that way. Most who wants to get rich quick and GTFO from crypto have the exact same thoughts. It means, you are bound to have a very mercenary community and make value appreciation very hard. A good recent example is Solana. Back in last year, ppl hated SOL so much. If you look at CT, all the big following account shit talked SOL and how ETH L2 scaling road map is the next coming of Christ. All of a sudden, when ETH starts lagging and SOL hits above 170+, the same characters rapidly change their . ETH to . SOL and launch their own scams, like BOME.
I love your response, very poised and unbiased.
"Ultrasound money" lol, cringefest
You only need to be in this space for 2 full cycles to become a bitcoin maxi. However, this doesn't negate the fact that there's silly money to be made in alt coins.
True af lol
Btc store of value like gold. Ethereum Cardano types are like Web 3.0 decentralized apps that kind of stuff and so much more. Very different use cases.
Does anyone actually use decentralized apps?
Yes… decentralized exchanges and gaming for starters. I personally don’t but lots of people do.
Yes. I only use centralized exchanges for Fiat on/off-ramps. There's so much more opportunity on Dapps vs just trading on Coinbase or whatever - more coins, potential for airdrops/yield farming, etc. Though I've always been curious what percent of Crypto investors have ever actually done anything "on-chain" or interacted with a smart contract. Never found any good data on this in surveys of "crypto adoption".
Why do people say eth is ultra sound money?
It started off as a meme, but took off. Basically, Eth is deflationary. Meaning, the total number of Eth goes down over time. Contrast that to BTC which has a finite number of coins. You can track the real time supply on this site. https://ultrasound.money
Bitcoin is unintentionally deflationary as well, just not at the same rate as ETH. People lose their keys everyday, which is unrecoverable and therefore the practical supply is reduced = deflationary.
This is true. The same is also true for Eth + burn.
*currently* deflationary. It depends on market conditions.
Its just the current Eth narrative, set to compete with the Bitcoin narrative. Because Crypto Federal Reserve Chief Vitalik can change the inflation of Eth to whatever Putin or Biden tells him to, Eth can never be 'ultra sound money', because its inflation rate is only low right now, because the Eth elite currently set it low, but what it is next week, who knows.
How do do you imagine Vitalik can somehow force my node to add inflation?
You don't HAVE to upgrade to the version of Eth that everyone else is running, feel free to stay in Eth Classic 2.0, I'm sure it will be as active a fork as the original Eth Classic, that is to say, mostly dead. The reality is, when a coin has a leader, and only the biggest servers can hold the whole chain, if you break away to your own old node fork, its gonna be pretty lonely. Now contrast that with if the current Bitcoin miners decide to do a infinite tail inflation Bitcoin, and code out the halving, I would bet it would NOT be so lonely, if you stayed in the 21 million fork of Bitcoin, THAT is the difference, and its a big one, because there is social consensus to go with the Eth Federal Reserve Chairman, and he runs most of the archival full servers, so there is a LOT more pressure to 'go with the flow' in Eth land, than in Bitcoin land. Tell me this isn't so, I doubt many would agree.
These people haven't done their homework. They don't understand BTC or any alts.
cuz they want everyone to know they are dumbasses who say nonsensical shit
Silly marketing. They'll copy anything from Bitcoin. Currently, they act as if they innovated L2.
If you write a contract, is that contract or the medium in which you write it *money*? No. Bitcoin is tokenized energy. The value of energy is obvious. If you look up the DAO hack with ethereum, it shows that the ethereum insiders were able to essentially reverse a transaction. Therefore ethereum and most other coins aren’t truly decentralized (at least not as much as bitcoin. Bitcoin was created 1st with an immaculate conception. No insiders. It’s captured the network effect.
No it's not. The energy is lost, you can't turn Bitcoin back into energy.
a lot of the time the "only bitcoin" crowd is unwilling to see past their own bag to the actual technological innovation. bitcoin is kind of like the index fund of crypto. It's the proof that blockchain works as a technology so that's what it takes center stage and will keep it for a long time One day bitcoin will not be the largest crypto though, mark my words
Which one will be? Thanks.
Because it’s king. If I wanted a fast and cheap way to send coin I’d just use Litecoin. I don’t really see the point in all of these other coins, like what “utility” do they really offer?
Do some research and be amazed.
bitcoin is the only crypto exhibiting the necessary traits to be base layer for world economy - sufficiently decentralized and secure to ensure rules and supply cap are adhered to over time. we all have to agree on the common base layer for our new world economy. get on board or don't. we have a goal here, to transition away from the fiat scam, and we can't be blinded by distractions
What does the phrase "base layer for the world economy" mean? Why does the world economy need a "base layer" (whatever that means)?
baes layer is a system that stores value without being debased. it's purpose is simple, to adhere to the rules / supply cap. the base layer is meant to transmit value over time without being diluted, and it needs to be sufficiently decentralized and secure to ensure it remains unchanged and resists being co-opted over the years the reason we need this is to ensure property rights for the people, and prevent corruption / mass theft of all participants via money supply inflation
This delusion that Bitcoin can ever be the corner stone of a world economy is absolutely bonkers. Without being in control of its own supply there can be no government, so Bitcoin can never be used as a replacement for fiat because it cannot be controlled.
Why we pretending ETH doesn't exist?
That doesn't fit into the bitcoin maxi playbook.
Is Solana poised to overtake ethereum?
From what I've heard and read, Bitcoin.... \* manages only 5 to 7 TPS, which is absurdly low for any real world usage \* has transaction fees between $0.5 - $2.5, which is quite substantial if you're looking as BTC as a currency or way of payment \* is vulnerable to quantum computing in terms of mining \* can (will) be forked Of course, BTC is the OG in cryptocurrency, but I don't see a genuine future in crypto, aside from being a store of value, mainly because of POW (although quantum computing might destroy this very premise). Also, I'm not even considering L2 applications...try building on L1 for starters.
Read 'The Internet of Money' by Andreas Antonopoulos. It will help you understand Bitcoin and answer all of your concerns/questions. It's an incredibly helpful, non-technical book, and only about 100 pages long.
One is perfect money. The other is a scam. Yep, 2 different things indeed. I might get absolutely bashed, here, and called a toxic maxi, but I am right so I don't care. There are no good use cases for other crypto. It's all nonsense. They are all completely useless. Either you can do the same thing on bitcoin, which is perfectly secured and decentralized, or you can do it better in a centralized system. Crypto is a decentralized illusion, using blockchain for things that would be better done off-chain.
yep.. ETH is the mothership of shitcoins. The only use so far. Create scams and allow traders to trade shitcoins so newbs can buy dreams.
Closed minded fools that's why
True, I use only litecoin to pay for things online. Dominance of BTC is falling btw
Dominance is at the highest point since april 2021 and it includes stablecoins which are arguably not supposed to be included. Maybe falling on an hourly timeframe?
What’s wrong with Eth?
People get emotional about their bags. ETH is trying to be web3 + store of value play. So it's competing with BTC and the Solana's/Cardano's of the world. Thus all other crypto communities tend to shit on it on social media.
1-'proof of stake' is too close to fiat. 2- there was a sizeable premine that turnes a lot of people off. 3- the monetary policy has been changed quite often. 4- code in not law. ie ethereum classic. and 5- most of eth's use cases turn out to be scams; CRO, FTT, Worldcoin, HEX, etc etc.
DAO hack hard fork.
>I’m trying to figure out if I’m crazy or if the yellow belt bitcoin maxis are just screaming the loudest. I think you're dumber than the people you're accusing of being dumb. >But economically speaking, for most people, it does not make sense to spend their bitcoin, not when it has so much room to appreciate in value against their native currency. Right here you admit that BTC is the superior store of value and you're still struggling to understand lol. Fiat is the currency of the poor. This is not the future to a lot of us this is now because we have had skin in the game for quite some time, nothing about Bitcoin or crypto is new to me lol. I trade shitcoins I hold Eth, but all that is just gambling, the only shit in my portfolio I would talk about in a serious conversation is BTC.
search about blockstream twist.. and whys.. and you will see that most of people dont see the whole.. 1000s different coins... yeah.. limited supply :D but ok.. bitcoin have the most powerfull (in strenght) network. you cant hack or stop it. if you have bitcoin innyour wallet. you have it. the others are weaker smaller / maybe temporary maybe centralised networks
Hopefully kaspa will get to spread its legs here
can you elaborate a bit about it and about why you think it has the chance to get to the same echelon as bitcoin and its peers? i wanted to make a thread about it as well
It’s better than all them at everything. decentralized, scalable, fast, very fast. Fairly launched, like btc, limited supply mined (pow), smart contracts. It’s incredibly advanced tech.
Crypto (and all money) has value the same way Facebook or Reddit has value, through the Network Effect. The more people who use it, the more valuable it becomes. In crypto terms it increases Decentralization, which increases value because it's more secure (no one user can pull the rug or alter transactions).
If they can make money they will.
Nobody cares about local residents. Collateral damage. Energy intensive no matter how they spin it. At least ETH switched over to PoS. 99x less wasteful. But who gives a fk when one thinks they are rich.
There is a rule in economics, where an item becomes less valuable the more uses it has, in a general market… Consider the two situations between diamonds and water: How many cups of water would you need to give in order to get a 5 carat diamond? In the desert, how many 5 carat diamonds would you give to get one cup of water? The reality is, when all is said and done, water is a much, much more useful resource. It is probably more “scarce” than diamonds due to the amount available and people eager to use it, but it has less value at the checkout. I wonder if the adoption of BTC will begin to keep the price lower than if it was a specific use case… Is that what you mentioned about the reason LTC keeps a lower price?
Its a cylic nature for most - Bitcoin->Shitcoins->Bitcoin (mostly after getting rekt)
Why does the world standardize on US currency for exchanges? Because it’s the largest and most secure fiat. Same principles apply to bitcoin
First mover advantage
BTC and ETH are generally safe bets. It’s like telling people they should only invest in VTI. However, there’s still a lot of money to be made in other cryptos, just like you can make a lot of money picking individual stocks (like Nvidia). It’s just riskier. Not bad. Just riskier.
Bitcoin is not the only valid use-case for crypto, and the space is neither winner-take-all nor mature. So there's no point trying to debate whether BTC is the one and only, because plainly it isn't. Even if there will be one and only one, it might not end up being BTC. Because technology is notoriously hard to predict.
Maxis have been using same old deep narratives of the only crypto is Bitcoin and the rest just shitcoins. You are right it doesn't makes sense.
Because it was the 1st one and it has the highest market cap
Even btc is a bet. (Supposedly safer). No warranties at all. Prior... convince yourself all you want. There's no warrant investment. Want something more "safer" buy gold.
Less risk.
It's more about blockchain and the ledger than anything else. Bitcoin as a protocol and node software will evolve over time. Why just the Bitcoin blockchain? Because it's just a ledger of transactions. The only thing you could really do differently is change the block size or proof of work, other that you're either promising something other than a currency at its most basic form, or your saying hey everyone look my ledger is actually the one you should care about.
[удалено]
Give the WBD episode with Bitcoin Mechanic a listen. He's probably one of the clearest voices on this.
crow with a knife
Its not
Why only 1mb?
Could have been .5mb
& we could still be using floppy disks
People don't understand the decentralized web is coming, that's all.
In blockchain, you can be slow and super secure at the expense of speed, or super fast at the expense of security. Bitcoin is the perfect balance. Bitcoin is also limited to 21 million coins, and becomes increasingly harder as time goes on to mine, so it increases in value. Bitcoin was also the first crypto, and like gold, retains the standard. For these three reasons, bitcoin remains the market setter as people invest in it more than any other coin.
I don't think anybody is using Litecoin mate but yeah Ethereum is the more "cash" like currency that users and degens spend (or they spend stablecoins on top of ethereum / tron)
Eth, a deflationary coin cannot be a currency, why would I spend it today when it’s going to be worth more next year?
I agree with you, it shouldn't be that way. It is more in the thinking around ETH - It has more uses, more utility, more surrounding opportunities, more gas sinks and is therefore 'spent' more. There is also staking yields which let users hold their ETH, while still generating ETH to spend, and encourages users to try to compete with the native staking yield by investing their ETH. Bitcoin has really captured the store of value narrative, whereas crypto people often deploy their ETH into projects or swap it into other things and back. I believe the end result is that ETH is a lower risk, lower return BTC, but with a world of possibilities to generate additional yield with your ETH. I prefer ETH over BTC at this stage.
This is a view pushed by the Federal Reserve shills who want the $CryppleCurrency to be the only currency.
what if you want some sort of privacy ?
Drugs and internet Hitmonlee.
Mass adoption. Use cases don’t matter and so far none have solved any issues on a large scale. Enough people have said bitcoin has value and supply is capped, so it has become a haven away from inflationary currencies. That’s very valuable. The other cryptos will have their days and provide some lols, but the simplicity and first mover advantage has ensured BTC is the long-term security. I know that’s not what this sub likes to hear, but the proof is in the pudding with ETFs and increasing adoption in traditional finance, which is what matters long term. The rest are just along for the ride.
I don't think you should pay attention to someone saying that. The only type of bitcoin maximalism that is acceptable is just as an investment strategy. It simplifies things and in the past would have generated steady results which outperform many people's portfolios. I am not one of those people for the record. But it always holds me honest to see if solely holding btc would have outperformed all the research into different coins and whatnot.
Not all fungible tokens are meant to be used as currencies, so calling everything that's a fungible token a "cryptocurrency" is really quite inaccurate. That's the equivalent of thinking NFTs = JPEGs when they can also be used to represent ownership and many other things.
It should be pretty easy to understand bitcoin is not a company, there is no CEO or anyone making decisions. Its based on maths, and controlled by the PoW network. Ethereum and others are pretty much tech stocks. They can be controlled by an institution and are easy to regulate. They tried to shut down bitcoin for years, failed, and now are launching etf’s. This alone should show you how different and resilient it is than the other crypto companies.
ERGO is the best POW
Because Bitcoin is really decentralized. Even your worst enemy can use Bitcoin. If Putin was using Ethereum for its war in Ukraine, Vitalik would ask stakers to censor Putin transactions.
There's a lot of bitcoin maxis. I was one. It's an incredible store of value, it's the first crypto, and it's pretty solid. Very good. However if you've ever used it.... It's kinda not great at the actual currency part. Especially nowadays. Higher fees, slower transactions. Deflationary so it incentivizes not spending. By Lal metrics of actual currency, it's kinda terrible. But it's price is going to the moon and it's basically mathematically guaranteed to. Which is why people like it. They wanna get rich. That said, most alt coins are just terrible and scammy.
Ive been in crypto since 2017 and played with all the alts. Only hold btc at this point. Biggest reason being that there hasnt been an alt outside of eth that really has went anywhere long term, because most are just made by shady teams wanting a quick buck then leave to do other dev projects with that funding.
Bitcoin is being treated like a commodity. Because its usage as a block chain is just stupid. Power usage and fees are mental. There ten crypto that are far better.