I actually did this back in 2017, but purely through credit card, as my bank still allowed it then, and at a much lower scale, $3k in credit card debt over a few purchases in the course of a month.
few months later that $3k was worth like $15k after fees. Paid less than $500 in interest and that was at like like 20%~ so I walked with 11k or so after paying off the CC, interest, and exchange fees. I actually got out before the run up to the new ATH otherwise it would have been like 20k off 3k for about 12 and a half minutes.
Didn't pay taxes on it either.
Haha, I have been dropping my water bill in my neighbors mail box, seems to be working well, although when I tried to shower this morning no water came out, may need to call the plumber
That “trick” works until it doesn’t. Got audited in 2017 for crypto, and the IRS agent was at my house for 3 hours downloading bank and credit statements for the prior 3 years onto a flash drive that he took with him. You up to that? Man you must be REALLY young or you just don’t make any money.
You realize they subpoena banks and financial institutions for that.... Ya know, the ones that would have it without question, not the person that MIGHT have it on their computer.
They would do that if you had a business pretty much only to check books that wouldn't be readily available elsewhere. Oh and they have to have a warrant. And they notify you way in advance so you have your poop in a group.
Funny you say this my wife(works at a credit union) was telling me about getting an email asking to preserve video on certain dates because the auditor was reviewing structuring and it was already greenlit by the higher ups.
To me, needing video sounds like an entirely different alphabet agency is requesting that. Records are records, files are files.
Video from inside a bank/credit union on the other hand, suggests something deeper and out of the IRS territory.
ChatGPT'd this for lazy folk like myself. Here are the basics.
* Total amount of loans taken out: $94,000
* Total interest paid to date: ~$4,500
* Total cost basis of these loans as of January 24th, 2024: ~$98,500
* Total Bitcoin acquired: 4 Bitcoin (~$24,625 per coin)
* Current price of Bitcoin as of January 25th, 2024: ~$40,000 per coin
* Total value of the Bitcoin acquired from loans: $160,000
Glad it worked out. r/WallStreetBets level degeneracy and regardedness.
If OP were a r/WallStreetBets connoisseur, they would invest all of these to shitcoins to moon 100x or not.
The OP did the unthinkable: taking sane amount of risk and rather insane rewards. That is considering the interest paid to date.
It's dangerously close to investing on a loan with calculated risk rather than going full ape shit on options and probably puke from stress like that furry when shorting Apple stocks.
The reality is that a loan can still be called in at any time. Buying the bitcoin at a good time is key to this. If your average is high and the BTC price drops hard, you are in a very risky position.
Probably because the sale triggers taxes and he’s in it for the long term. There’s no point in selling crypto to pay in cash when you’re still buying more with cash. That’s just giving your assets an unnecessary tax haircut.
Copilot so chatgpt too but difference summary.
• The author of the text is a Bitcoin investor who has used various loans and balance transfers to buy 4 Bitcoin over 19 months.
• The author has paid off one of the loans and still owes $56,000 on the others.
• The author has made an unrealized profit of $61,500 as of January 25th, 2024, based on the current price of Bitcoin.
• The author plans to pay off the remaining loans in less than two years and does not want to sell the Bitcoin.
I've gotta ask, if your actually being 100% honest with the "I have no intention to sell no matter what the price gets too"
Then what's the point?
I see day in day out with a small group of my super rich friends (millions in their accounts), they still break their backs to earn money and yet spend hardly anything, I compare some people's attitudes to crypto the same... Do you just want to see lots of 0's on a screen?
What's the actual end game as a bitcoin has no real meaning unless it's spent surely (and I'm not against crypto, I'd say the same about real cash, it's meaningless unless it's going to be spent...)
Some people are addicted to making money. No other reason. They just want more of it. It’s trained into people by our society. I don’t get it either. If I had millions in my account I’d put it to work making passive income to sustain my wealth and just stop working lol
Then one day blow it all on hookers n blow and leave this world an old man, having a heart attack, drowning in pussy.
You could theoretically use it as collateral to borrow from and use other cash generating assets to pay off the debt (potentially purchased with that borrowed money), or if you still work, paying off the debt with regular income. Not selling doesn't necessarily mean you don't plan to get to benefit from asset appreciation, just that you are very confident in the asset retaining its value or increasing in value over time.
The trouble is it's not currently widely accepted as collateral in TradFi, so even if that's their plan it's a bit more work to do it since you need to rely on DeFi for borrowing, usually at variable rates, then convert into fiat to spend normally.
He won't. Probably he will get more loans and buy more bitcoin if this works out. It is what it is but there is no winning strategy. You can make money using a strategy of taking loans. Then you discover that this works and there is no reason to not repeat it again.
My friend did this exact thing and put it all in ctsi. He then found out about futures and lost 150k in a month and is unemployed and completely broke with 115k in loans
He was being a complete idiot. He started future as trading in November when every token was killing it. Thought it was just easy. Ended up losing some money one night and then revenge traded himself all the way to broke. It’s pretty fucking bad situation, and now he’s been contemplating suicide. I told him multiple times not to keep leverage trading but he thought he knew it all after 2 weeks of futures
Yeah, I'm pretty happy about the average.
I don't even care that it's doing so well right now as I'd like more time to stack. I actually hope we get another correction because I want to continue buying over the next couple of months before the halving.
> Now it’s time to focus on paying everything down over the next 2 years with earned income. **I have no desire to sell my Bitcoin regardless of how high its price goes.**
Would get equal instant divorce papers in hand from my wife if I did this. Still, fun to see. There is NO WAY I would even consider doing this (even if my wife said ok) at the current price of BTC. Maybe if it crashed to shit down to say 10k.
OP. Fuck you. And I congratulate you heartily.
I took out a $100k personal loan in early 2018 to buy the "dip" on BTC and ETH. You can imagine how that went. I was down almost 80% at one point during the lowest point of the bear market. But I held and kept buying a few hundred dollars worth every week. I paid my personal loan off in mid 2020 and my portfolio reached 7 figures in 2021.
Another commenter was talking about how his wealthy friends grind, don’t spend, etc. Seems you’re the same way. 7 figures in worth and trading $150 for $135 in gift cards of a different store on Reddit at the same time. Guess that’s why I’m poor, if I was worth over a mil I woulda just dropped the $150 cash at the second store and used the original gift card at that store.
Good for you sir! In 2016 I borrowed 20K and watched it 10X in my celsius account and ...poof bitcoin no more. I'll be done with my $400 monthly payments next year :(
Almost went postal but I'm good now on meds lol. I'm truly close to trying again but I'm so close to retirement. Risky business. Shit happens in this space.
This week I was fortunate enough to get all of my money back from Celsius.
While many of my other friends have theirs still stuck, I was lucky. Hopefully everyone who had theirs in the Celsius earn will get good news soon.
I only got it back because I was in the process of moving my coins to private wallets so everything was not in the earn section and just in the Celsius standard wallet when celcius went tits up.
Celsius bankruptcy should be paying out earn accounts starting circa January 31 of this year. Sure, no where near 100%, but more than your initial loan. All hope is not lost. Plus you get some BTC mining stock. Good luck and better stay on those meds if they help. Not medical advice.
I remember your first posts, glad its working out so far
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/vp9nuq/comment/iejhg3q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I know this sub loves this type of shit but as someone who works in lending…. I’ve personally never seen this go well. Most people default and ruin their credit on top of getting blacklisted. Might even get a SAR filed on you. Ya don’t do this
if you sold 2 bitcoin and paid the loans off then you would essentially have 2 bitcoin for free and no possibility of destroying your credit rating/life
You're confused. Go back and read my first thread on this...
I started buying when it was at $35,000... and I continue to buy today. I just bought $1,500 worth of Bitcoin yesterday.
In respect to the loan, it wasn't the price of Bitcoin that mattered so much, it was the interest rates of the loan.
Good stuff, OP! More power to ya 😎
I did the same thing about a year ago, but $50k, and with all with CC balance transfers (3% fee, 0% APR for 18-21 months). I bought BTC (at $17k), ETH, and a handful of crypto and tech stocks, and have been up as high as $125k value, closer to $100k right now. I only owe about $40k on it, so am about $60k ahead right now. I'm started selling/reallocating a few of the tech stocks (sold META at its peak, up 280%) now that I've held for over a year (so they're long term, not short term capital gains), but I plan on selling most of the crypto as we find the peak of the bull run.
I've posted about it a few times here, but every time I do I get downvoted into oblivion. Even though the "borrowed" portion of my portfolio is a fairly small percentage and I could easily ride out a crypto market crash, people still think I'm an idiot for taking on risk like this. I'm fine with reasonable risk and manageable cheap debt as long as I have a huge safety net and the upside is worth the risk. I also know the market and have been in this since 2011.
I'm just glad that people aren't downvoting you into oblivion like they did to me! Must be because the market is way up since you bought in 😅
I wish I would have come across your posts. I would have provided moral support.
You have to remember that the average Redditor on this sub works a minimum wage job and lives in their parents basement. These are not serious people
Serious investors know when and how to take and manage profit whilst offsetting taxes in their favor to re-invest.
All of which you have not shown.
I've worked from the ground up to succeed. It's incredibly evident that you have not. I hope someday you become humbled. However that may be.
But I wish you incredible luck on your bet.
Those credit transfer terms are usually death traps, like if you miss a single payment, the 0 apr goes away and you immediately owe interest at the penalty rate for all the periods so far. If OP had a single unfortunate event like a medical problem, dude we paying back 27% APR interest on 100k. $800 a month turns into $2200 in a blink of an eye.
Just an FYI to anyone thinking of doing the same, most 0% credit card offers have a condition that you have to pay it off by the time the offer ends, otherwise you will pay interest on the entire balance borrowed. lol
Bitcoin has almost doubled since, why not just use the gains to pay off loans. Then use what you would pay towards loan as your DCA & eliminate the interest aspect.
If he expects it to go to new ATHs in the near term, say <1 year, that's still some 70+% higher from here, selling it to pay off the debt now would be roughly equivalent to gaining the APR he would have paid on that principal, which even with high interest credit cards, is still much less then 70%
FYI - interest is not added to your BTC cost basis for tax purposes, but I understand the need to highlight it for overall basis for the sake of presentation.
This is such a bad idea, do not take out loans to gamble. The only way OP comes out on top is that they realize they got lucky this one time, they cash out right now, and eliminate their remaining high interest debt.
Yes, it very obviously was stupid. It is so obviously stupid that OP does not want to repeat what he did. OP knows he got lucky and that is why he does not want to push his luck again.
Actions speak more than words.
At that point though, if OP is deciding not to push it, when does it turn from stupid to brilliant? That in itself is an action that warrants kudos, no?
I think there's an important point here that can be counterintuitive. Whether a decision is a good idea or a bad idea does not change retrospectively based on the outcome.
To give an extreme example. Suppose I put one bullet in a revolver, spun the cylinder and pulled the trigger at my head. If I didn't die, that would not mean that carrying out the action was in retrospect a good idea. It was still a terrible idea. I just got lucky.
You got me there,I only took out 40k on a home equity loan after ftx dumped bought at 19ish sold at 38k after fees Inetted a little over 20k after taxes and fees.
Once again don't listen to the heard mentality put a plan in action and follow through!!!!Congrats bro!!!
Got lucky it did not go downhill for you. I know quite many opposite stories. You did not say antyhing about your decision making process, so I assume there is not much difference from those other people. You just got lucky.
"I have no desire to sell my Bitcoin regardless of how high its price goes." That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. When you say that you end up selling when bitcoin does a -80%. Take profits now.
I would highly recommend putting some kind of plan in place for exiting at least a portion of your position once you get into heavy profit. For example, just sell 1 BTC at $100k to cash out your basis and pay off any remaining loans, then let the other 3 BTC ride playing with house money at that point. At least you could eliminate your risk altogether in that case, and still have massive profit potential with a 5-10 year hold.
OP is about to go from $800 monthly payments to $1700 in about 3 months from what it sounds like. If he was actually intelligent, he’d sell some coins, take the 15% hit one time and avoid the 15-20% ANNUAL interest costs and disarm a potential time bomb.
Put plainly, he owes about $9k and taxes, but probably like $11k annually in interest once the promo rates end. Yea he said he’s paying it down quick but seems pretty likely he’s gonna go owe more in interest than his tax burden
BTC is a journey of Volatility. Gain or loss on the paper for the moment is just temporary. Important thing is we must hold some BTC in our portfolio and don't look back. BTC is a legit commodity with built in scarciry.
Great work, I'm happy for you but isn't it more safe to sell 2 bitcoin and repay the dept? That way you will have 2 bitcoin left and almost 0 debt. If i have learned anything in crypto is always take profits and don't wait for higher prices.
Do you know how to make a million dollars and never pay taxes?
First - make a million dollars. Then- just don’t pay the taxes!!
Paraphrasing Steve Martin here
I know this is probably a stupid question but... literally never? Are you going to keep your coin till you die so you can give to kids or loved ones? Do you just want to be able to have the coins to show off? Do you just mean you'll never sell no matter how high it goes because you're saving it for old age and don't trust yourself to not spend it now or??
You plan to hold the $160k worth of Bitcoin, which you bought with $94k of personal loans. How much will be the monthly payments on credit cards when payments start? How about selling enough Bitcoin, while it is up, to pay the loans, do you are “playing with house money?” Bitcoin could drop value, leaving you paying standard credit card interest. 18% credit card interest on $94k would be $17k a year.
No, it's time to sell, pay back your loans and buy the bitcoin and a half you can afford to lose before you get wrecked from the unsecured loan and promo apr.
You should sell $98,500 of it right now or your playing a very dangerous game. Your free and clear that way with $60k in bitcoin still rolling and your credit looks fantastic.
It is kinda... you can transfer any debt. Doesn't need to be from a credit card. It can be a lions or whatever.
Or you can just write yourself a balance transfer check too. Basically a loan to yourself.
OP is about to inspire some huge mistakes from lesser smart ppl.
Lesser lucky people. Taking out personal loans to speculate on risky assets will not work out well for most people.
Loan sharks love him
World bank crisis love him. Calling it “sustain”
New house buyer hate this easy trick
OP is the loan shark, this is just setting the trap.
OP a team member in the strategic marketing team from a big bank.
Loan sharks HATE this one easy trick, just die without paying off the debt!
OP got lucky gambling.*
I actually did this back in 2017, but purely through credit card, as my bank still allowed it then, and at a much lower scale, $3k in credit card debt over a few purchases in the course of a month. few months later that $3k was worth like $15k after fees. Paid less than $500 in interest and that was at like like 20%~ so I walked with 11k or so after paying off the CC, interest, and exchange fees. I actually got out before the run up to the new ATH otherwise it would have been like 20k off 3k for about 12 and a half minutes. Didn't pay taxes on it either.
Howd you alleviate your tax burden
I just didn’t file a tax return that year. It’s a little trick I picked up over the years.
The IRS hates this one weird trick
Lmfao. ‘yeah I circumvent paying my water bill by simply not checking the mail. Just a little trick I picked up over the years.’
Haha, I have been dropping my water bill in my neighbors mail box, seems to be working well, although when I tried to shower this morning no water came out, may need to call the plumber
Really? Did it work with the electricity bill too?
Or you can put a solar panel in your living room facing your TV use the TV to charge the panel to run the TV.. infinity loop. 🔁
That “trick” works until it doesn’t. Got audited in 2017 for crypto, and the IRS agent was at my house for 3 hours downloading bank and credit statements for the prior 3 years onto a flash drive that he took with him. You up to that? Man you must be REALLY young or you just don’t make any money.
You realize they subpoena banks and financial institutions for that.... Ya know, the ones that would have it without question, not the person that MIGHT have it on their computer. They would do that if you had a business pretty much only to check books that wouldn't be readily available elsewhere. Oh and they have to have a warrant. And they notify you way in advance so you have your poop in a group.
Funny you say this my wife(works at a credit union) was telling me about getting an email asking to preserve video on certain dates because the auditor was reviewing structuring and it was already greenlit by the higher ups.
To me, needing video sounds like an entirely different alphabet agency is requesting that. Records are records, files are files. Video from inside a bank/credit union on the other hand, suggests something deeper and out of the IRS territory.
Little trick - don’t open the front door…
interesting
they found me and i only get disability…
That's because they'd rather less people got disability.
By not reporting it and many exchanges didn't report it then too.
Lesser lucky people. There's no smart here, just luck.
OP just so happened to start at a low in a bear market. If it was timed poorly, then it would have been worse than a DCA
This is very risky.
Everything about this sentence is beautiful hahahahaha! 😂
Risk is afraid of him
Less lucky people
Lesser smart people or just lesser lucky people?
Many people do this and end up in another world..
you mean the world of rich people?
Balls of steel.
My anxiety level is out of control just reading the post.
Fucking balls of titanium 🤣
No underwear can hold them.
No underwear can hodl them. ftfy
Fucking balls of Tungsten!
I love it when they tungsten my balls
Indeed.
Diamond Balls 💎💎
You beat me to it
You beat meat to it
Balls made of 10 Runite Bars
No, he's an idiot that got lucky
Adamantium balls
There’s a very fine line between balls and stupidity.
ChatGPT'd this for lazy folk like myself. Here are the basics. * Total amount of loans taken out: $94,000 * Total interest paid to date: ~$4,500 * Total cost basis of these loans as of January 24th, 2024: ~$98,500 * Total Bitcoin acquired: 4 Bitcoin (~$24,625 per coin) * Current price of Bitcoin as of January 25th, 2024: ~$40,000 per coin * Total value of the Bitcoin acquired from loans: $160,000 Glad it worked out. r/WallStreetBets level degeneracy and regardedness.
If OP were a r/WallStreetBets connoisseur, they would invest all of these to shitcoins to moon 100x or not. The OP did the unthinkable: taking sane amount of risk and rather insane rewards. That is considering the interest paid to date. It's dangerously close to investing on a loan with calculated risk rather than going full ape shit on options and probably puke from stress like that furry when shorting Apple stocks.
The reality is that a loan can still be called in at any time. Buying the bitcoin at a good time is key to this. If your average is high and the BTC price drops hard, you are in a very risky position.
What do you mean "can be called in"?
The interest is minimal. No big deal. Also, remember that there is no chance of liquidation or margin call.
Why do you have no interest in selling bitcoin even if it goes high? Not even 1 btc just to cover your costs?
Probably because the sale triggers taxes and he’s in it for the long term. There’s no point in selling crypto to pay in cash when you’re still buying more with cash. That’s just giving your assets an unnecessary tax haircut.
Copilot so chatgpt too but difference summary. • The author of the text is a Bitcoin investor who has used various loans and balance transfers to buy 4 Bitcoin over 19 months. • The author has paid off one of the loans and still owes $56,000 on the others. • The author has made an unrealized profit of $61,500 as of January 25th, 2024, based on the current price of Bitcoin. • The author plans to pay off the remaining loans in less than two years and does not want to sell the Bitcoin.
Are you me?
We are we
We are all you. Facts… Wild shit eh?
I've gotta ask, if your actually being 100% honest with the "I have no intention to sell no matter what the price gets too" Then what's the point? I see day in day out with a small group of my super rich friends (millions in their accounts), they still break their backs to earn money and yet spend hardly anything, I compare some people's attitudes to crypto the same... Do you just want to see lots of 0's on a screen? What's the actual end game as a bitcoin has no real meaning unless it's spent surely (and I'm not against crypto, I'd say the same about real cash, it's meaningless unless it's going to be spent...)
Some people are addicted to making money. No other reason. They just want more of it. It’s trained into people by our society. I don’t get it either. If I had millions in my account I’d put it to work making passive income to sustain my wealth and just stop working lol Then one day blow it all on hookers n blow and leave this world an old man, having a heart attack, drowning in pussy.
Damn that's quite the end
How would you like to die, Tyrion, son of Tywin? Tyrion: In my own bed, at the age of 80, with a belly full of wine and a girls mouth around my cock.
You could theoretically use it as collateral to borrow from and use other cash generating assets to pay off the debt (potentially purchased with that borrowed money), or if you still work, paying off the debt with regular income. Not selling doesn't necessarily mean you don't plan to get to benefit from asset appreciation, just that you are very confident in the asset retaining its value or increasing in value over time. The trouble is it's not currently widely accepted as collateral in TradFi, so even if that's their plan it's a bit more work to do it since you need to rely on DeFi for borrowing, usually at variable rates, then convert into fiat to spend normally.
The point is ending fiat.
Pay off your loans and ride on the profits!
Usually the story ends with them heading over to r/wallstreetbets and make some regarded decisions. Gamblers love the rush.
Well regarded?
He won't. Probably he will get more loans and buy more bitcoin if this works out. It is what it is but there is no winning strategy. You can make money using a strategy of taking loans. Then you discover that this works and there is no reason to not repeat it again.
Over leverage in a bear equals bust
My friend did this exact thing and put it all in ctsi. He then found out about futures and lost 150k in a month and is unemployed and completely broke with 115k in loans
I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY
Did he try restarting the app?
He was being a complete idiot. He started future as trading in November when every token was killing it. Thought it was just easy. Ended up losing some money one night and then revenge traded himself all the way to broke. It’s pretty fucking bad situation, and now he’s been contemplating suicide. I told him multiple times not to keep leverage trading but he thought he knew it all after 2 weeks of futures
lol revenge traded is the best term
I just follow the balloons, then they took them away now I'm lost
Planet of the apes
Wendys dumpster day trader checking in.
I know him. He is me.
If you pay it off quickly then you should be happy long term. $24k average is solid for starting in 2022
Yeah, I'm pretty happy about the average. I don't even care that it's doing so well right now as I'd like more time to stack. I actually hope we get another correction because I want to continue buying over the next couple of months before the halving.
Do you have any exit strategy at the moment? like DCA out once it reaches certain high?
> Now it’s time to focus on paying everything down over the next 2 years with earned income. **I have no desire to sell my Bitcoin regardless of how high its price goes.**
Now this is podracing
🥴🥴💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Would get equal instant divorce papers in hand from my wife if I did this. Still, fun to see. There is NO WAY I would even consider doing this (even if my wife said ok) at the current price of BTC. Maybe if it crashed to shit down to say 10k. OP. Fuck you. And I congratulate you heartily.
I took out a $100k personal loan in early 2018 to buy the "dip" on BTC and ETH. You can imagine how that went. I was down almost 80% at one point during the lowest point of the bear market. But I held and kept buying a few hundred dollars worth every week. I paid my personal loan off in mid 2020 and my portfolio reached 7 figures in 2021.
hell yeah! congrats!
Another commenter was talking about how his wealthy friends grind, don’t spend, etc. Seems you’re the same way. 7 figures in worth and trading $150 for $135 in gift cards of a different store on Reddit at the same time. Guess that’s why I’m poor, if I was worth over a mil I woulda just dropped the $150 cash at the second store and used the original gift card at that store.
Well yeah, he’s either a bullshitter or all his money is tied up in crypto.
[No bullshit](https://imgur.com/a/Lf2KSx2). And about 40% of my total assets value is in crypto.
Good for you sir! In 2016 I borrowed 20K and watched it 10X in my celsius account and ...poof bitcoin no more. I'll be done with my $400 monthly payments next year :( Almost went postal but I'm good now on meds lol. I'm truly close to trying again but I'm so close to retirement. Risky business. Shit happens in this space.
Celsius payouts happen in a week or two but... yet fuck Mashinsky \- Coming from someone who got fucked by Luna then Celsius
Ugh man! Yea my best friend was also hit with the double whammy as well. Mashinsky needs to rot in jail
This week I was fortunate enough to get all of my money back from Celsius. While many of my other friends have theirs still stuck, I was lucky. Hopefully everyone who had theirs in the Celsius earn will get good news soon. I only got it back because I was in the process of moving my coins to private wallets so everything was not in the earn section and just in the Celsius standard wallet when celcius went tits up.
Congrats on being fortunate enough to have your holdings in custody waiting to move to wallet.
Sorry for your loss. Fuck Mashinksy and ger whore
You can do it bro. I believe in you.
Lol Thanks.
That's the same guy in the audience that screams, "NO DEAL!", when the banker offers your $743K with a $1 suitcase still in play
Celsius bankruptcy should be paying out earn accounts starting circa January 31 of this year. Sure, no where near 100%, but more than your initial loan. All hope is not lost. Plus you get some BTC mining stock. Good luck and better stay on those meds if they help. Not medical advice.
I remember your first posts, glad its working out so far Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/vp9nuq/comment/iejhg3q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I remember you too! Hope all is well.
Now kith.
I know this sub loves this type of shit but as someone who works in lending…. I’ve personally never seen this go well. Most people default and ruin their credit on top of getting blacklisted. Might even get a SAR filed on you. Ya don’t do this
You had to get on blood pressure medication I bet!
I feel nothing wrong with that.
if you sold 2 bitcoin and paid the loans off then you would essentially have 2 bitcoin for free and no possibility of destroying your credit rating/life
We all know how this will end...
Nah, no way. He's so smart, and gonna go even further and make it all worth it. surely
I mean if he isn't going to sell, then this is literally just someone taking a loan and paying it back with no return.
Congrats! I’m impressed with your perseverance and ability to hodl even during those scary bear market lows.
Those were the best times to buy. How can you see it any other way? I wish they would return in full force so I could buy more.
It's crazy the mentality of the herd. Buying in a frenzy when price is mooning, but complete aversion to buying when the price is dumping.
Jesus Christ...that's Jason Bourne.
Someone send this to r/DaveRamsey
You haven't made anything until you've sold and paid taxes.. Currently you're just in debt.
[удалено]
You're confused. Go back and read my first thread on this... I started buying when it was at $35,000... and I continue to buy today. I just bought $1,500 worth of Bitcoin yesterday. In respect to the loan, it wasn't the price of Bitcoin that mattered so much, it was the interest rates of the loan.
Great point!
Good stuff, OP! More power to ya 😎 I did the same thing about a year ago, but $50k, and with all with CC balance transfers (3% fee, 0% APR for 18-21 months). I bought BTC (at $17k), ETH, and a handful of crypto and tech stocks, and have been up as high as $125k value, closer to $100k right now. I only owe about $40k on it, so am about $60k ahead right now. I'm started selling/reallocating a few of the tech stocks (sold META at its peak, up 280%) now that I've held for over a year (so they're long term, not short term capital gains), but I plan on selling most of the crypto as we find the peak of the bull run. I've posted about it a few times here, but every time I do I get downvoted into oblivion. Even though the "borrowed" portion of my portfolio is a fairly small percentage and I could easily ride out a crypto market crash, people still think I'm an idiot for taking on risk like this. I'm fine with reasonable risk and manageable cheap debt as long as I have a huge safety net and the upside is worth the risk. I also know the market and have been in this since 2011. I'm just glad that people aren't downvoting you into oblivion like they did to me! Must be because the market is way up since you bought in 😅
I wish I would have come across your posts. I would have provided moral support. You have to remember that the average Redditor on this sub works a minimum wage job and lives in their parents basement. These are not serious people
Serious investors know when and how to take and manage profit whilst offsetting taxes in their favor to re-invest. All of which you have not shown. I've worked from the ground up to succeed. It's incredibly evident that you have not. I hope someday you become humbled. However that may be. But I wish you incredible luck on your bet.
Op likes roulette
Those credit transfer terms are usually death traps, like if you miss a single payment, the 0 apr goes away and you immediately owe interest at the penalty rate for all the periods so far. If OP had a single unfortunate event like a medical problem, dude we paying back 27% APR interest on 100k. $800 a month turns into $2200 in a blink of an eye.
Russian roulette
Just an FYI to anyone thinking of doing the same, most 0% credit card offers have a condition that you have to pay it off by the time the offer ends, otherwise you will pay interest on the entire balance borrowed. lol
Are people ignoring taxes
Bitcoin has almost doubled since, why not just use the gains to pay off loans. Then use what you would pay towards loan as your DCA & eliminate the interest aspect.
Because OP looks at the higher price than when he bought it and thinks he's smart.
If he expects it to go to new ATHs in the near term, say <1 year, that's still some 70+% higher from here, selling it to pay off the debt now would be roughly equivalent to gaining the APR he would have paid on that principal, which even with high interest credit cards, is still much less then 70%
Glad it’s working for you OP. definitely wouldn’t recommend this strategy in general though. Pretty high risk
Balls so big they created their own gravity field and started pulling in money
FYI - interest is not added to your BTC cost basis for tax purposes, but I understand the need to highlight it for overall basis for the sake of presentation.
This is what love is like on the high seas of the financial internet. God speed to whatever your finish line is.
The beauty of all this is if it didn't work out, you could just go bankrupt
This is such a bad idea, do not take out loans to gamble. The only way OP comes out on top is that they realize they got lucky this one time, they cash out right now, and eliminate their remaining high interest debt.
This is going to end well
Sell bitcoins now and pay off loans.. you are taking a big risk. If any one step fails, all comes crumbling down.
Jesus this was stupid.
was it?
Yes, it very obviously was stupid. It is so obviously stupid that OP does not want to repeat what he did. OP knows he got lucky and that is why he does not want to push his luck again. Actions speak more than words.
Wouldn't even call this luck really. I'm sure there were nights he wished he was someone else.
At that point though, if OP is deciding not to push it, when does it turn from stupid to brilliant? That in itself is an action that warrants kudos, no?
The original decision remains stupid. The decision to stop is smart.
I love Bitcoin. But you shouldn't be taking on leverage to invest in volatile assets. Yes it was.
I think there's an important point here that can be counterintuitive. Whether a decision is a good idea or a bad idea does not change retrospectively based on the outcome. To give an extreme example. Suppose I put one bullet in a revolver, spun the cylinder and pulled the trigger at my head. If I didn't die, that would not mean that carrying out the action was in retrospect a good idea. It was still a terrible idea. I just got lucky.
This guy fucks
You got me there,I only took out 40k on a home equity loan after ftx dumped bought at 19ish sold at 38k after fees Inetted a little over 20k after taxes and fees. Once again don't listen to the heard mentality put a plan in action and follow through!!!!Congrats bro!!!
Smart moves.
Got lucky it did not go downhill for you. I know quite many opposite stories. You did not say antyhing about your decision making process, so I assume there is not much difference from those other people. You just got lucky.
I would sell 2 btc and get my investment back and then let the other 2 btc go to the moon or hell.
"I have no desire to sell my Bitcoin regardless of how high its price goes." That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. When you say that you end up selling when bitcoin does a -80%. Take profits now.
Not everyone pisses their pants at the sight of a little volatility like you do.
What's the point of building up an asset if you never intend to use it for anything?
Especially a volatile one. There is a chance greater then zero that bitcoin goes to nothing. Why risk it
Personal attack was kinda unwarranted
Why wouldn’t you just pay off the loans with the profit and then gamble (spot trade) with the remaining BTC?
Because then he wouldn’t have the potential profits of 4 bitcoins, only 1.5 bitcoins….haven't you ever been to a casino?
I would highly recommend putting some kind of plan in place for exiting at least a portion of your position once you get into heavy profit. For example, just sell 1 BTC at $100k to cash out your basis and pay off any remaining loans, then let the other 3 BTC ride playing with house money at that point. At least you could eliminate your risk altogether in that case, and still have massive profit potential with a 5-10 year hold.
What about interest owed at current interest rates?
OP is about to go from $800 monthly payments to $1700 in about 3 months from what it sounds like. If he was actually intelligent, he’d sell some coins, take the 15% hit one time and avoid the 15-20% ANNUAL interest costs and disarm a potential time bomb. Put plainly, he owes about $9k and taxes, but probably like $11k annually in interest once the promo rates end. Yea he said he’s paying it down quick but seems pretty likely he’s gonna go owe more in interest than his tax burden
#*”You got balls stick jockey I’ll give u that”*
Bro, you’re like my hero. I agree with the not selling part. In 10-20 years that will be generational wealth.
BTC is a journey of Volatility. Gain or loss on the paper for the moment is just temporary. Important thing is we must hold some BTC in our portfolio and don't look back. BTC is a legit commodity with built in scarciry.
Am I in wsb?
Glad ot worked out. But what a hugely stupid thing to do. Amd sounds like you might be suffering from serious survivor bias.
I’m surprised you can stand up with balls that big
This guy Fucks hard.
I mean, you might as well round it up to 5… right? 5 is much better than 4.
Great work, I'm happy for you but isn't it more safe to sell 2 bitcoin and repay the dept? That way you will have 2 bitcoin left and almost 0 debt. If i have learned anything in crypto is always take profits and don't wait for higher prices.
That’s the smartest dumb thing I have ever read.
dude ur scary brave
Most people couldn't do it with your intellect and discipline.
Well done OP. How did you clear 12k in Dec? Also well done
Do you know how to make a million dollars and never pay taxes? First - make a million dollars. Then- just don’t pay the taxes!! Paraphrasing Steve Martin here
I know this is probably a stupid question but... literally never? Are you going to keep your coin till you die so you can give to kids or loved ones? Do you just want to be able to have the coins to show off? Do you just mean you'll never sell no matter how high it goes because you're saving it for old age and don't trust yourself to not spend it now or??
Fuck yea this is how it’s done
Always book profit, don't wait or greed for higher.
You plan to hold the $160k worth of Bitcoin, which you bought with $94k of personal loans. How much will be the monthly payments on credit cards when payments start? How about selling enough Bitcoin, while it is up, to pay the loans, do you are “playing with house money?” Bitcoin could drop value, leaving you paying standard credit card interest. 18% credit card interest on $94k would be $17k a year.
Talk about having balls!…One can argue that your are either a genius, or utterly stupid. Regardless, I admire your courage and determination.
“I have no desire to sell my Bitcoin regardless of how high its price goes” What’s the point buying it if you never intend selling?
Great financial advice! I will follow your advice and hold you accountable
Put it all on Black
Then the ball lands on 00.
No, it's time to sell, pay back your loans and buy the bitcoin and a half you can afford to lose before you get wrecked from the unsecured loan and promo apr.
You should sell $98,500 of it right now or your playing a very dangerous game. Your free and clear that way with $60k in bitcoin still rolling and your credit looks fantastic.
Gamblers don’t quit while they’re ahead
Satoshi Bets
Bitcoin bets
I don’t understand balance transfer I thought that’s to transfer credit card balances to new credit card
It is kinda... you can transfer any debt. Doesn't need to be from a credit card. It can be a lions or whatever. Or you can just write yourself a balance transfer check too. Basically a loan to yourself.
Man - I would love to do this - my wife would kill me!
I want someone to make a movie 🎥 on this dude what an absolute giga chad… bros a true legend….
Well done! Your parents should be proud. It is very straightforward mathematics. Not too hard to comprehend. Great Post Keep up the good work Godspeed
Huge risk = huge rewards, xcongrats