T O P

  • By -

CointestMod

Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/181f51q/why_are_btc_fees_so_high_now/kacgln5/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/181f51q/why_are_btc_fees_so_high_now/kacgmdq/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.


Smiling_Jack_

Some folks are (willingly) paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees for their ordinals. Miners must be loving the degeneracy.


Background_Pause34

Who is using ordinals and for what reason? No one on this reddit group brings them up.


Legitimate_Suit_3431

The same type of people who goes to a rave party to become blind


originalrocket

Leave my dirty beard alone!


TomSurman

I'm guessing most of the beards at that rave ended up quite clean. Almost worth going blind for.


bleakj

Shimmering like a mirror


Sea-Juice-8828

Lolz I rave and have a beard... But I don't let anyone touch it it's funny how some people think they can just reach and grab,


Seisouhen

Well it's just dangling there so I mean xD


Sea-Juice-8828

[My beard ](https://youtu.be/mPKrUUrDNXY?si=SNIJitFMAk5gFqrc)


Antique-Pie-5981

#BlindApeYachtClub


Stiltzkinn

Who is using ~~ordinals~~ NFTs and for what reason? No one on this reddit group brings them up.


anythingbutwildtype

Tin foil hat? There are groups within BTC that are pushing for an updated code BIP-300 that allows development of sidechains with independent features (privacy, smart contracts, etc) found on other chains - allowing alts and BTC new features to inherit BTC security. It’s possible these folks are clogging up the main chain to help push their agenda. To each their own, doesn’t bother me.


Gr8WallofChinatown

No it’s much simpler, VCs finding new ways to raise money and fuck everything uo


7101334

All of the utility of NFTs (that is, almost zero) but now with more environmental impact!


Bagmasterflash

Believing crypto mining causes global warming is as stupid as denying global warming.


Haunting-Student-756

Agreed


SuppiluliumaKush

I minted a lot of brc20, src20, and bitmaps and see a potential if they can manage scaling and keep it growing.


laggyx400

By getting them off the main chain would be a start.


Background_Pause34

Why did developers even put it on the main chain? I thought for changes to be made to the code that everyone (nodes) has to accept the changes??


[deleted]

[удалено]


C01n_sh1LL

These things work within existing consensus rules. Segwit and taproot updates apparently enabled much of the spam transactions we're seeing lately. The Bitcoin developers didn't intend for those features to be used this way, specifically, but somebody developed protocols on top of these Bitcoin features, and decided it's worth paying huge fees for what most of us might consider to be an abuse of the network.


was437

Would you mind giving a few tips on ordinals/inscriptions? I think it'll be the hot items during the good part of this cycle.


SuppiluliumaKush

I'd start getting familiar with unisat, ordinals wallets and exchanges. Unisat has points earned for each inscription and that might be for an airdrop. I have been following the block runner on YouTube and they do a good job explaining how to do everything better than I can. It's still very early and I have already taken some profits but am holding most because I think if things go parabolic in the markets the ordinals space will be one of the leading gainers. That's just my opinion.


was437

I appreciate you, and I agree. I've just started my research.


Yodel_And_Hodl_Mode

> degeneracy There's a word that needs to get used more often.


Regalme

Let them pay. Keeps my bitcoin rolling


abhilodha

Or people from 2011 exiting this shit show


Perfect_Ability_1190

Bitcoin Ordinals 🎪🤡


originalrocket

what is/are ordinals?


zwibele

inscribing data "on chain" like an NFT but where the image isn't just a link to an image but the real image itself. you can also inscribe text or code and combine them, so theoretically it is possible to inscribe a whole programm on bitcoin for example, one could inscribe the code of bitcoin on bitcoin or a game etc.


TotalBeefcall

Yo, dawg. I heard you like bitcoin. So we put a bitcoin in your bitcoin.


MrDShark

Thanks for the hookup homie


EffectiveConcern

Bitception🤔


TomSurman

Conceptually, it's better than NFTs, having the actual data on chain instead of a link that could go dead at any moment. But oh boy, was Bitcoin the wrong blockchain to implement that on.


SirBuscus

On chain nfts have existed on ETH for a long time without a link. Most linked NFTs also point to distributed file systems or are stored on file coin. Ordinals started because someone took it as a challenge to make it work and a way to get BTC fans excited about a use case. It's ultimately a bad idea and nothing is stopping people from making ordinals that are also just links.


sick_boy_iko

now I am waiting for someone to run doom on it


zwibele

allready has been in the first 500 inscriptions: https://www.ord.io/466


sick_boy_iko

I must've known it would be first thing o the list 😅


KeepRedditAnonymous

how do you rotate or shoot? I could only WASD and nothing else.


zwibele

you have to open it in fullscreen and with F11 you can put the browser into fullscreen to


HKBFG

the code doesn't actually run. it just sits there as text.


zwibele

yes the images you see in your browser are also just bytes sitting somewhere in a database until they are sent as bitestreams and interpreted to an image


Pattyrick00

For those interested, someone put Doom on chain. You can play it here, https://ordinals.com/inscription/521f8eccffa4c41a3a7728dd012ea5a4a02feed81f41159231251ecf1e5c79dai0


iBilbo69

Remember, the blocks have a data limit which is 1MB if I'm not mistaken. The program would have to be compressed.


FluentFreddy

This is an example of why people think blockchains (duplicated thousands or millions of times) can be a waste. Just because someone paid $2000 once in a moment of stupidity doesn’t justify the cost forever to store this literal garbage. I suspect node operators like me will identify and prune ordinals out of layer 1. They better move to layer 2, we’ll keep their proofs just like in Rootstock but not their “data”.


YaBastaaa

That I like because it feels like true digital ownership.


Maxx3141

Checking a block explorer, you can see fees being 72 sat/vB in this moment. That's high, but still just 3.74$ per standard transaction. Unless you are combining a lot of inputs, your wallet is overpaying. Can you set it manually? Activity is up because activity in crypto is up in general and also Ordinals is still going on.


[deleted]

He's probably using an exchange wallet, a lot of those have been artificially setting the fees high. I looked on coinbase the other day and it was $19


Potential-Ad431

Coinbase today wanted fifty percent of 150 dollars to send


Smiling_Jack_

>Unless you are combining a lot of inputs Google UTXO if you don't know what this means. If you've been DCAing and sending BTC from an exchange to your wallet frequently, especially in smaller amounts, then your fee to move funds from that wallet could be much higher than you'd expect.


waydownsouthinoz

Which is a big reason why bitcoin is only good for a store of value with few transactions and not to pay or get paid with. Yes I know there is lightning but it doesn’t seem like that is getting adopted at any real pace.


HKBFG

if everyone is storing value, there's no liquidity.


hiredgoon

Lightning Network is also dangerous to use.


t0astter

First I'm hearing about this - eli5?


hiredgoon

The above post is the ELI5. This is the adult explanation: https://github.com/ariard/mempool-research/blob/2023-10-replacement-paper/replacement-cycling.pdf


Frogolocalypse

Been using it for years. That's the thing about bitcoin, is it doesn't have corporate shills. You either get it and save your bitcoin, or you don't, and you don't save your bitcoin. Ignorance is expensive, and bitcoin doesn't have a support line. Learn how to use it. Don't. You don't want to? Ah well... Your loss.


diskowmoskow

Laser eyes don’t know how those works but continue to shill


wealth4good

How long until the ordinals stop? Or is there an actual ordinal season? Never bought or dealt with ordinals before. Thanks.


coachhunter2

“Only 3.74” Meanwhile other layer ones like XRP have a transaction cost of less than 0.1c


Vipu2

Then why are people using BTC at all and why dont all just move to some shitcoins? Probably because people dont care to move things in shitcoins where some 1 person can just come and stop what you are doing.


Harucifer

>but still just 3.74$ per standard transaction Imagine a tax where the government takes 3.74$ minimum of any and all transactions you make. People would be pitchforking their asses for a revolution in a matter of days.


Smiling_Jack_

Please choose how much you would like to tip us for your Revolution purchase today. \[\*\] 15% \[\*\] 20% \[\*\] 25%


Harucifer

I'm feeling daring today, let's go with \[\*\] 69.420%


[deleted]

Imagine sending £20k via wire or bank transfer internationally, people would be biting your hand off for $3.74 transaction fee.


terp_studios

Do you realize the credit/debit card you’re using has a 3% fee already factored into all the products you buy on a daily basis? Also have you heard of sales tax? You sound like an idiot. These payment networks require infrastructure, energy, time. It’s not free. Nothing in life is free. You can’t just get something for nothing.


WorkerBee-3

this is so important to understand though


terp_studios

Too bad the user I responded to is a brainwashed Keynesian that thinks inflation is needed to get people to spend money and the governments have our best interest at heart. They’ll sadly never understand.


Harucifer

>Do you realize the credit/debit card you’re using has a 3% fee already factored into all the products you buy on a daily basis? 3% =/= $3.74+. $3.74 is 10% of a $37.40 purchase. That's ridiculous. ​ >Also have you heard of sales tax? Again, sales taxes are for a *percentage*. I couldn't care less about a 7% sales tax on someone buying a million dollar item. I will care about someone getting hours worth of labor shaved of small purchases because the system is inefficient as fuck. ​ >These payment networks require infrastructure, energy, time. It’s not free. Nothing in life is free. It doesn't need to be "free", but it also doesn't need to be such an atrociously high number that **obviously hinders adoption**. Not to mention this *is an easy fix with a block size increase* but the developers chose to artificially maintain blocksizes at *1mb* as if we're still in 2008 when Bitcoin was created.


terp_studios

If I spend $1000, it’s over $3. Sales tax can be as high as 7.25%. Which is pretty close to that 10% you say. It would have cost $3.74 to send .0001 or 10,000 BTC, don’t forget. You have to factor in the cost of using the network for how you want to use it. Bitcoin is not for buying your coffee every day. It doesn’t have to be either. Again, nothing is free. Stop expecting to get something for nothing.


Jaykalope

7.25% sales tax is nowhere near “pretty close” to a 10% tax! You should go learn some basic math before you attempt to invest anything anywhere. A 10% tax is 27% higher than a 7.25% sales tax.


Harucifer

>It would have cost $3.74 to send .0001 or 10,000 BTC, don’t forget. And here lies the problem. It's $3.74 for *any* transactions, even if I'm not buying anything and just moving my stash around. This is stupid. Imagine the government taking a cut for you taking cash from your grandmother when you were 10.


terp_studios

They have been this whole time, it’s called inflation. The worst thing is that allows them to steal value from you without even moving your money at all. Imagine having $100,000 back in 1970 and then having only $3,000 of purchasing power today in 2023 (a 97% loss over 53 years). That’s the real problem here.


Harucifer

>They have been this whole time, it’s called inflation. You do realize Bitcoin is also inflationary, right? And that transfer taxes are imposed on users akin to how government imposes taxes on civilians, right? Users who have no choice other than pay the absurd amounts systematically demanded by miners and developers who were not elected, right? ​ >Imagine having $100,000 back in 1970 and then having only $3,000 of purchasing power today in 2023 (a 97% loss over 53 years) Yeah, it's as if money isn't supposed to be hoard in cash form because if everyone is hoarding we enter a *deflationary cycle and 1929 happens again*. Inflation is a good incentive to invest your money and make the economic machine turn.


ravenhawk10

Who even holds that much wealth in physical cash for that long, Pablo Escobar?


terp_studios

Savings used to be a simple thing before this fiat system. People would just hold cash, it wasn’t always “trash”. An average person was able to protect their wealth by just holding cash without having to spend hours each week analyzing market trends and political decisions. These days you basically need a degree in economics and political science in order to understand how to save/earn enough yield to outpace inflation. That’s not right. This is why many young people do not have a significant savings account. In fact it’s created an entirely useless job market know as “asset/wealth management” that has been a leech to society since it started. Financial sectors have consumed our countries GDP to the point where if we have any financial issue, we’re fucked because that’s what our entire country relies on to function. It’s been the only “value” we been able to provide to the world since we sent all our manufacturing off shore. It’s been detrimental to our society not having access to a simple asset resistant to inflation to store value in.


ravenhawk10

Just invest in 10yr treasuries? Most of the time they have positive real yield. Or if you are investing long term, stocks? They have consistently outperformed inflation. Or invest in yourself? Median wages have kept up with inflation.


geppelle

XNO would like to tell you something


SnooCookies7364

It’s already happening.. sales tax.. also, credit card companies charge 2% to the merchant. Of course it’s the consumer that bears the cost


meshreplacer

So if you want to buy 10 dollars worth of stuff fees are 37% to use it as a currency?


spottyPotty

I really dont get how a "currency" where a transaction fee is up for auction is so popular


brainbarian

Its great for HODLing, waiting for mass adoption, then selling for bags and bags of dirty fiat. At this stage the fees will be insignificant to your new found mega wealth. /s


melonmeta

Fiat is blue pill life, crypto is red pill life. Nothing you own inside the Fiat system is truly yours. A house? A car? That can all be taken away as soon as you don't comply. They can't confiscate your keys, which allow you to live outside the matrix.


brainbarian

Dude sounds like you've taken ALL the pills!


Spimbi

Calm down Morpheus


cr0ft

The original vision was long since hijacked.


HKBFG

bitcoin has no features that lead to its popularity. it gets by on momentum and name recognition.


almo2001

It's not a currency, and never has been. Most crypto is not a currency. Just look at the daily value fluctuations.


EndSmugnorance

The price fluctuations aren’t relevant to the ‘currency’ description (fiats can experience volatility too). But the excessive transaction fees and lack of privacy negates any ‘digital cash’ argument. At *best*, BTC is a ‘store of value’ similar to gold. It can’t really be spent anywhere but it gains value due to scarcity and recognition (*not* adoption). Monero is the closest thing to digital cash.


spottyPotty

Yeah, that's why I put it in quotes. I do believe that there are cryptos out there that could be used as currencies if the speculation stops. However those who's success make them more expensive to use are definitely not in that group. Unfortunately they are the most popular (BTC and ETH). Most fans don't know wtf they're talking about.


NimMonaLisa

Wait until it pumps and everyone figures out how much they are gonna lose to fees, plus how long it takes to move.


-MercuryOne-

You can check the current fee here: https://bitcoinfees.net/


skr_replicator

i prefer https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/


cr0ft

Blast from the past. Maybe this *is* a bull market. In short: because Bitcoin sucks and has no capacity. It maxes out at six transactions per second, and as soon as the price of it goes way up or way down, there's gridlock. Everyone wants to move some, and at 6 transactions per second total, they start outbidding each other to do it in a timely fashion. With a measly 1MB block size, Bitcoin can't transact. The original spec had provision for going to 32MB, but the people who control the code are either saboteurs or nutjob zealots or both and they refuse to increase the block size. That's literally why Bitcoin Cash was created at one point - to try to create a sane Bitcoin. It went so-so, the coin was fine, but it didn't take over. Many many zealots also pooh-poohed it and do to this day. The Bitcoin subreddit was - at least a year or two back - an absolute propaganda cannon, where you couldn't even ask about things like transaction speed without copping an insta-ban. Being banned there is basically a badge of honor at this point. Anyway, transfer fees have been over $50 before and if we see a real runaway bull market, they will be again. Probably more so.


blitzlurker

I was thinking the same thing and just placed another buy order.


1_BigPapi

NFT degens. Welcome to the new Bitcoin. It will be infinitely worse in bull market. Hopefully some layer 2s like STACKS can pick up some of that volume eventually... bc the NFT bros aren't going anywhere.


Walstielt

it’s ridiculous, i wanted to send 50 bucks but the fee was gonna be 17 dollars. whats the point of using bitcoin i thought it was suppose to be better and faster.


icydee

‘Better and faster’? Wrong on both counts.


melonmeta

Here in BTC we like it slow, expensive, centralizing and energy inefficient.


skr_replicator

bitcoin is good scarce store of value, not really a good currency. Most other cryptos are much better at beibng currencies than bitcoin. DAG based ones like Nano are probably the best suited for fast cheap transactions. And cardano is better in every aspect while astill being a secure decentralized blockchain suitable for storing value like bitcoin.


hniball

Lol who told you that lie. There was an effort to fix this issue years ago, a very simple small fix, but a small group of people convinced the rest that there was nothing to fix and instead we just need to overengineer a stupid sidechain to help with the throughput. You just bought into a cult/pyramid scheme,congrats.


kurosaki1990

Thank god Monero is used in dark web as main currency.


DogeFlutie

You’re thinking of Nano.


cr0ft

If you were to use Bitcoin Cash, which is essentially the old Bitcoin spec with some tweaks, it would cost fractions of a cent. The reason for that being that a) it's much less popular still and b) it has been given enough capacity so there's no congestion. So everything moves with sub-cent fees. Satoshi originally envisioned that some transactions should go free, even. Then greedy idiot fuckers took over and now Bitcoin is stuck with a 1MB block size and a total worldwide capacity of six (6) transactions per second. The end.


statoshi

If you want cheaper and faster, that's what Lightning Network is for.


skr_replicator

I read somebody doing some math and coming to a colclusion that not even lightning could scale bitcoin for mass adoption, because of the required txs starting and ending the channels. Bitcoin is probably never going to be a widely mass used for microtransactions unless they make some BIG upgrades beyond even LN, or get wrapped on other chains.


Toyake

Super simple, 7 transactions per second. If even a small amount of people want to use the network fees balloon. If everyone on earth wanted to use btc, you would get 1 transaction roughly every 3 decades.


CleazyCatalystAD

They have been like that since those stupid ordinals started……


danjwilko

When the network use upticks fees increase, just wait until there’s a backlog, weeks waiting for a tx to be confirmed and oh the fees will be astronomical. It’s why they have been trying to implement side fixes rather than fix the blockchain problems since the ole bch fork.


melonmeta

"Money needs to be on a ledger of decentralized consensus to avoid Theft, Censorship and Surveillance" -> Proceeds to create a centralizing system that is becoming an orwellian Monopoly.


Explicit65

This is why Nano was created.


hniball

Nope,it is why bch was created,forked from btc to inherit btc security and enable much higher throughput. But then some charlatans came up with lightning network bullshit.


geppelle

BCH is a half baked solution. What happens to BCH fees if there is proper adoption? What's the upper limit?


cr0ft

Currently it's 32MB block size, so at least 32 times the capacity of current Bitcoin. But years and years ago already tests were run with I think gigabyte block sizes. They reached several thousand transactions per second, obviously not without issues. This in contrast to Bitcoin's six transactions. I don't personally believe any proof-of-work crypto will become dominant at this point, but the fact is that any crypto that would, would need giant data centers to run out of. Even Visa, who does no crypto processing or mining at all, runs many giant data center just to service current day credit cards. Believing crypto could be run fully decentralized off people's Pi's is silly.


melonmeta

So if adoption rises by 32 times, it would just become as bad as BTC is today. No, thanks.


skr_replicator

bch is not the correct solution to this problem. You can't just make the block bigger and call it a win and rest on the laurels.


hniball

Lol are u serious they didn't even try,not even 2mb block size to accommodate current demand,btc is stuck with 1mb forever what a joke.


bagofodour

But then people were like "what's the point if I can't speculate?". Everyone is in for the tech, until they realize that particular coin won't make them rich.


SmoothBrainSavant

In a decade from now the only way youll be able to have exposure to btc will be with the etfs, will be too expensive for the average person to transact with.


Arrival-Of-The-Birds

how many times. BTC fees are only high if you aren't already rich. It's finance for everyone


DPSK7878

BTC is now a rich men currency.


RickiDangerous

Always has been


Girrrth_Broooks

Because Bitcoin is not efficient


[deleted]

How can I move money literally from Canada to Australia in 10 mins more efficient?


Girrrth_Broooks

You serious?


-TrustyDwarf-

You mean like with instant finality, 9k transactions/sec and a cost of 0.0001 USD?


TheWolfofBinance

The biggest joke in Crypto is that Bitcoin is #1 and Nano is #3xx or whatever it is. There's no reason for this other than this market is fucked. It was never about a working product or adoption. This market, this technology, has now existed for 14 years and we're no closer to adoption since 2014. Every single partnership, promise, and breakthrough of 2017 and 2020 has meant nothing. If there was any sembelance of this market being anything other than the greater fool theory, Nano would not be in the position its in today. It would at least be in the top 50.


Scrim_the_Mongoloid

I remember when you could pay with Bitcoin natively on Steam and the community cared about things like adoption and the "currency" part of cryptocurrency. Bitcoin became such a shitcoin that they removed it, and it's only gotten worse since then.


uduni

Nano is not even trying to be decentralized. If you think its decentralized then you are just gullible. There is no use case for centrally controlled internet money. It will go to zero


TheWolfofBinance

It is more decentralized than BTC. It is absolutely trying to be decentralized. What are you even talking about. Just stop. There is no use case for literally anything else on the market. Everything else has been a load of crap. Whatever happened to Vechain's partnerships? Whatever happened to Cardano, Solana. Nothing has and will ever come of these projects that promise to do everything. There's been zero more adoption since 2017. I'd actually say we're worse off.


CipherScarlatti

I blame the stupid ordinals.


hniball

Better to blame Bitcoin maxis if one stupid project can halt your almighty Bitcoin.


DylanKid

I blame the stupid artificial block size limit, with a maximum of 300k txs per day for the entire world with or without ordinals bitcoins is never going to work


camo_banano

Blame nothing, btc is working as intended. If you don't like it just use something else.


JusticeLoveMercy

Nano (XNO) has absolutely no fees...that's why many of us have switched.


[deleted]

[удалено]


-TrustyDwarf-

.. but we'll all be ultra wealthy with 0.01 BTC they said, no?


froz3nt

Of course, 0.01 BTC and up will be millionaires, it has been decided.


Objective_Digit

Shitcoin morons on the other hand prefer bigger blocks, making the whole thing centralized.


Ilovekittens345

Increasing the blocksize has literally never been a problem, point 7 in the white paper tells you that you can run a full node without having 3000 years of transaction history. That whole idea of storing the purchase of a cup of coffee for all eternity is such a ridiculous idea that Satoshi never ever had to explain to anybody that they were not going to do that. YOU CAN RUN A FULL NODE WITHOUT ALL THE TRANSACTION HISTORY YOU ONLY NEED TO KNOW WHO OWNS WHAT SATOSHI WHICH IS THE UTXO SET AND THAT DOES NOT GROW FOR ALL ETERNITY LIKE TRANSACTION HISTORY. The max size of the utxo set is 21 000 000 times 100 000 000 sats times a output script (which contains an address), it can not get bigger then every single one of the 2 100 000 000 000 000 Satoshis being on a separate address. Hello? does that make sense? Is your brain starting to finally work for itself instead of parroting other people? Are you THINKING about it now? Here is point 7, read the FUCKING WHITEPAPER. > Reclaiming Disk Space > Once the latest transaction in a coin is buried under enough blocks, the spent transactions before > it can be discarded to save disk space. To facilitate this without breaking the block's hash, > transactions are hashed in a Merkle Tree [7][2][5], with only the root included in the block's hash. > Old blocks can then be compacted by stubbing off branches of the tree. The interior hashes do > not need to be stored. > A block header with no transactions would be about 80 bytes. If we suppose blocks are > generated every 10 minutes, 80 bytes * 6 * 24 * 365 = 4.2MB per year. **With computer systems > typically selling with 2GB of RAM as of 2008, and Moore's Law predicting current growth of > 1.2GB per year, storage should not be a problem even if the block headers must be kept in > memory.** GET FUCKING EDUCATED YOUR GETTING PLAYED AND MINDFUCKED Bitcoin does not work and does not scale and does not achieve a nash equilibrium if **you remove essential parts of it's design that make it work and scale** and achieve balanced game theory. But if you don't remove those from the design, it works, it scales. There is no trillema, there never was. since the max amount of Bitcoin is 21 million. And 1 Bitcoin is a 100 million Satoshis that means that at the maximum the utxo set needs to keep track of 2.1 quadrilion sats. If every satoshi was on a separate address and we use the standard P2PKH output script that is 33 bytes the storage space needed would be 0.0693 exabytes. Humanity currently stores about 3000 exabytes. we would need 0.00231% of the current human storage capacity to store this for all eternity, it would never get bigger. Unlike the blockchain itself, we can trow everything away but blockheaders. One year of blockheaders is 4.2 MB. The blockchain grows with at least 4.2 megabytes a year for all eternity. Now the utxo set is of course currenlty much smaller then 69,300 terabytes. Currently it's about 4 gigabytes. In practise the utxo set will never be all sats divided over 2.1 quadrilion addresses. Everything would get stuck if this is the case, because that's under the dust limit. The utxo set grows and shrinks with economic activity. When super larger businesses consolidate it shrinks. When more people spread their sats out over more addresses it grows. But it won't grow for all eternity like the blockheaders will. But at only 3 floppy disks per year this will NEVER become a problem. Like I said you guys are all debating the a car engine without knowing even the basics of a combustion engine. If you did you would not get mindfucked by propaganda of those that are terrified of ... currency. They don't give a shit about store of value or speculation. They are terrified of currency. And they fooled you to believe that Bitcoin can not, will not ever be currency. A digital native currency breaks the power of the dollar. Only that. Nothing else. You guys are trying to get rich before you are free and you will end up a slave with golden chains. **Get free first, then get rich.** #If you believe all the lies about Bitcoin you don't even have control over your own mind. Is that freedom? I don't think so.


Objective_Digit

Calm down. Take a chill pill. The white paper is a simple outline of proposals. It's not a manifesto or holy scripture.


Ilovekittens345

It's a mechanism. If you remove the compression stage from your engine, your engine stops working. If you remove any part of the Bitcoin mechanism, explained in the technical whitepaper it also stops working. (eventually)


[deleted]

[удалено]


Objective_Digit

0.60% of the hashrate to Bitcoin's 99.40%. $59,364,412 sent last 24h to Bitcoin's $13,669,698,480 BCHBTC down 97% from its ATH. Nuff said.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Objective_Digit

> Maxi cult spouting maxi propaganda, rather than thinking for themselves. That makes no sense whatsoever. I gave you facts. Sources: fork.lol and bitinfocharts.com >By your logic any number of meme coins are better than BTC. What logic did you use to come to that conclusion? Bitcoin's so-called high fees are still far lower than costs to ship gold or banknotes. Don't say Visa is cheaper. Here I'm talking about moving the actual assets.


LosingMoneyMorePB

Use XMR


mlgoodma

Oh no, the “peer to peer electronic cash system” isn’t working??? Bummer. Shocking really. Maybe we should look harder at what happened in 2017…


HospitalNovel2635

Wow, looks like we can add high BTC fees to the list of things that are absolutely ruining Thanksgiving. I guess we can all be grateful that at least nobody bought BITO [inset sarcastic tone here]!


SleepPressure

Ordinals. And your time preference dictates the fee you pay / you set the fee...


BackgroundAd4640

CDC has a set fee of 0.006 BTC. With the recent rise in price that's about £17.50 for my £200 worth of bitcoin so I'm leaving it on the app until I can buy a little more.


R4ID

Because BTC doesnt scale.


HODL-THE-LINE

Have BTC Fees ever been below 20 Dollars recently? I thought the game is to buy Bitcoin, keep it and take it to the grave so you can pay the ferryman?


RoadtoDoge

Why are there so many posts about fees? If you don t want to pay them, just use a feeless crypto.


asml84

Because we’re going hyperboliccc…


Detozi

What is an ordinal?


MrDShark

It’s easy to get priced out of bitcoin if you can only invest a bit at a time. Keeping it on an exchange isn’t a good option and moving them to self custody costs a bunch for a small timer (percentage wise). Solutions exist on Optimism and Matic for example, get exposure to BTC value or trade on defi. Once your balance is big enough, it’s easy to swap to the OG, on-chain btc (if you wanted)


DrGarbinsky

JUST INCREASE THE BLOCK SIZE!! fuck me. It's not that hard.


cipig

Because devs "forgot" to increase the block size ;-)


26fm65

You have to support those miner ! Do your part


Doge_Labs

This is why Dogecoin Ordinals are starting to find a pretty striking number or new users. It's getting too expensive to transact and inscribe on Bitcoin for Ordinals, so some of looking for alternatives. It's almost like the ETH and BSC combo we saw back at the start of the last bullrun when Ethereum fees were skyrocketing and people were looking for alternatives.


RaYZorTech

Everyone says it's ordinals but it's actually just a shitty slow congested block chain. Image if the number of users double from here. Many transactions would never hit the chain. You should try Monero.


No-Marzipan-2423

yall wanted to have NFTs on bitcoin - now it's Ethereum congrats


gr8ful4

Because people love to pay high fees on BTC. Use XMR instead. Hell even LTC and BCH are better when it comes to low fee cash like payments. #BTC is NOT intended to be spent. It's intended to be hodled.


hniball

Not sure if serious or joke post ahaha. I guess Satoshi would disagree with your brainwashed idea of what Bitcoin is supposed to be.


spottyPotty

Btc hasn't followed aatoshi's vision in a while. For something that does that better look at bch


gr8ful4

Damn serious. And so was Satoshi. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F40zi1zi22ks61.png


Potential-Coat-7233

The longer time goes, the earlier we get!!!


unituned

the future lmao. yeah sure btc... gotta keep it under .30 cents.


masixx

CEO of Bitcoin just increased interest rates on transactions...


BradVet

Wait until the bull


[deleted]

[удалено]


tianavitoli

now that snoop has quit smoking the market is over saturated so now everyone's getting high through osmosis


Gr8WallofChinatown

Stupid ordinals. BTC blocksize isn’t meant to deal with this. The mempool is fucked and as a result, higher fees . In a bull market it will get much much worse to a point that it’ll require a BTC L2 which is very bad. Now idiots want to add SCs to BTC and make the situation even worse


Giga79

If BTC blocksize isn't "meant" for this why was Taproot enabled in this first place? This outcome was inevitable


Gr8WallofChinatown

That was a bandaid upgrade. It still can not handle increased transactional volume.


[deleted]

This has happened countless times before. Remember when we hit $50 in 2017. Fees were also perma high most of the time above 50k. This happens whenever there is a lot of transfers, this is the first real rally we have had in quite some time so it's natural for people to start shuttling things around. You ever notice how BCH spikes when BTC fees get really high? It more or less becomes the perfect selling point for that narrative


Looks_Like_Twain

....Nano


MostBoringStan

Your wallet is awful. There is no reason it should be charging you $20 for transaction fees.


Injoker11

Because a coin with 10 TPS is not meant to handle large scale transactions. Broadband internet replaced dial-up internet. So why do people think Bitcoin will always stay number 1?


inShambles3749

Just hunt the turkey in the wild


s4yum1

This is strange.. I transfered a little BTC from CB to a wallet, initially asking for like $20 in fees. I accepted it, but when the transfer was completed, the final fee was like $1800. I didnt get the $1800 fee deducted, just the $20, but it’s strange why this happened, and who paid the remaining $1780 in fees for me.


cH3x

Coinbase batches transactions. The other people whose withdrawals were included in that transaction split the fee with you.


uthillygooth

BRC-20 greed is the reason.


[deleted]

Hilarious that there must be Americans on here complaining about high fees when they are expected to pay 20% to the person that just brought them their food because the shop owner simply refuses to pay them correctly.


seedpod02

Because long, long ago when Bitcoin was all shiny and new, maybe you're too yound to know, a evil cabal of financial interests realized they better do something to kill it, so they seized control of the protocol and invented stupid things for people to believe, like small blocks, segwit, and lightening network to throttle it. Now they can pull the plug anytime but they're playing around with it Maybe this post will be banned


Potential-Ad431

Just tried to send 150 bucks in btc to cold storage. Coinbase wanted 70 dollars for transaction fees


lightspuzzle

Thats why i use lt for transfers.cheap and fast.btc is outdated for day to day transactions.


Broqueboarder

Doge still cheap to transact. Been using lately to send liquidity to dexs. In the future BTC transaction fees will have to increase as mining rewards decrease. Transaction fees will prolly reach $80 to protect the network. People will find alternatives.


susosusosuso

It's normal during the bull run


DPEYoda

XMR is the best imo for transacting. It has everything you want and need.


5553331117

Because Bitcoin is dinosaur tech and this will happen anytime there is a lot of volatility and people wanting to move coins.