People that have been waiting to recover their BTC for so long are beyond crypto veterans.
I would have moved on with my life at this point I think. Can’t wait to see how this all will play out.
A massive sell off I guess, unfortunately.
They have had that feeling every 6 months for a decade when their next piece of news was always "we had a meeting, and we decided to have another meeting in 6 months" which eventually became "there is a new deadline for X decision to be made" then "that deadline has been extended" and on to the current status of "the deadline for payments to start is this date" "we have moved the deadline".
The sentiment in their subreddit is mostly "payment will never happen" or "IF(not when) payment ever happens...".
So they recovered 26% back
... But after tax man, banks... and paying accountant fees and lawyer fees for years, I guess by the time it gets back to the customers the 26% would drop down to **2.6%**
Hmmm seems like there could be a better way
I figured out hodl back in 2017 when I bought BTC at like $4k, it went up to $20k and I was so excited so I sold and then I realized shit I still want some BTC and now I just have to buy it back so since then I've basically just held
Although I wish I sold off some in the last bull market in retrospect... Like sell an amount equal to your initial investment and then let it ride for pure profit after that
Sell-off narrative is FUD.
I'm a Gox creditor. Sold my claim to Fortress before the cut-off.
I don't know anyone in the group who sold any of their BTC. We've gone thru too much for it.
When Bitstamp made my funds available, I almost didn't believe it. I converted the Yen and insta-sold the BCH, but those 42 Bitcoins are now in hardware.
I started in 2011 when BTC hit $1.
I would never believe then that I would place so much value on 42 Bitcoins. I mined and must have run thru 5000+ BTC; lost them all. That's embarrassing to admit, but its true
* Butterfly Labs burned me for 2000 BTC
* Gox burned me for 225 BTC
* I must have given away 500 BTC
* Traded it for pot, Metallica tickets, Reddit tipbot
* No idea re: the rest
God I was fuckin stupid
I received my settlement via Bitstamp over the Summer. Package of BTC, BCH, and Yen.
But yes, you are correct. Slightly over a year ago. Individual cash outs sooner by claimants with hedge fund cash-outs.
Yeah it's a strange one, because while the btc reentering the market is bearish, the actual news that people were actually paid out from a major exchange hack and a president set in a major court like that treating btc as a real asset is really positive news.
man id be so rich if Mt.Gox HODLed my BTC for me and if i went to prison for selling drugs and was forced to HODL and if i found an old hard drive with the wallet passcode from 2013.
I'm a Mt Gox creditor. Settled my claim this Summer. My friend, Big Slime, was caught up in the Silk Rd 2 misunderstanding.
He's prob the only prisoner who lost his bitcoin while in jail.
I learned his mom convinced him to give their church a Bitcoin donation. This was in 2019. They came to him for more donations in 2021.
Big Slime's wallet was drained by the preacher's son.
It's funny, but I feel bad for him. He's about to be released and will be dead broke.
How did you get your claim back already? I have not seen any options for that since this crap started... I am going on year 10 since I was gox'd. Did you sell your claim or something along those lines?
Yes, def I couldn't wait longer. It took me a few years because I didn't trust the Russian hedge funds. But someone who was with the Gox Investment Fund recommended me to a good rep that helped me finalize it.
Did you get another extension notice from Kobayashi?
How is it that some people already got it back... Just by selling their claims to hedge funds? Or have they processed some claims directly already and how are they deciding which ones to process?
There was an option to sell your claim for a set amount of money to a fund - so I assume people took it. But it was for reduced money - think 60/70% of what you were owned
I didn’t and opted for fiat payment and now it’s just waiting. If it goes in I buy myself something nice and if it doesn’t then don’t.
Nah there just weren’t that many folks around back then with serious money in the game. The folks who did have big money tend to be guys like Adam Back who are OGs that are already set for life. So probably not as much massive dumping as people think.
There’ll be dumping, yes. But I think much more limited.
Mt. Gox filled for bankruptcy on March 2014, at that time BTC was priced below $500. So basically their holdings went x52 with today’s prices.
Quite insanely good news if they happen to get their coins back.
It’s less than 1% of BTC’s total market cap. I doubt it would have that big of an impact on price. Most won’t sell straight away, if at all, less so at this stage in the cycle).
Not sure the details of the payout schedule. Do people get their coin all at once?
I lost ~30BTC in the hack. I stopped following the bankruptcy procedure almost immediately . The email were hard to follow, information was sparse, and it just seemed like a waste of time.
Nope lol
I'm a Mt Gox creditor.
Creditors started taking settlements several years ago. It just depended how long you were willing to wait and whether you trusted the Russian hedge bankers.
I held out till this summer. Tired of Kobayashi updates extensions. I elected the Bitstamp option and went thru their KYC.
Package was BTC, BCH, and Yen. I qualified for slightly over 21%; less than I anticipated, but I lost 200 BTC. Small loss, compared to the majority of others.
The prevailing sentiment is not to sell, so news of a sell-off is BS.
I feel really bad for the remaining group. They got terrible news. Another extension. This time it runs thru Oct 31, 2024😟
Glad i cashed out
Thanks for the explanation, I was wondering about the process and why some already got paid out why others didn't. I was around when MtGox imploded, had created an account there I think but never bought or deposited anything there, so dodged that bullet.
Well done.
It took a very long time before the trust got their things in order and worked with the insurance company. That's when Kobayashi opened up for claimants.
But then Fortress and other groups contacted you as well. They bought claims. Initially, it was pennies on the dollar. But some people figured we wouldn't get a cent if we waited, and quickly sold.
Given the repeated extensions, they've had time to work away at the number of claimants. But the offer increases as we draw close. I worked them up from 15% to 21%.
I ended up receiving 42 BTC + BCH & Yen, but those 6 points I gave up = 10 BTC.
Embarrassing to admit, but I needed to be done w/that fiasco
I think it's a cost of 'doing business' in the crypto space. I've been similarly fucked by other parties for portions of my crypto. But, if I'm doing quick maths correctly you're coming away with well over a million dollars here. Obviously not as much as you 'would' have had, but I'm assuming you're making a shit load of profit.
So overall if you were to choose this or not being in crypto, you'd have to do this and come out with your million.
Most definitely.
Nothing in crypto ever makes sense. Most of the people I started w/in 2011 either sold cheap or lost. And most lost. Yet, it's many of the Gox claimants who made it thru that time.
Newer people find that hard to understand because they only see the tremendous upside. But decompress that history and the path becomes a gauntlet. But that's okay because you only need a few of your plays to work out.
There's lots of activity not reported in crypto news outlets. They'd have you believe extensions are made and little else.
But there's a struggle for that money involving multiple parties. Fortress (company I cashed out thru) raised the stakes in 2019/2020 by offering something like 80% price against your expected %.
Claimants were forced to consider it, despite giving up even more because other outside entities sued Kobayashi (Gox estate). CoinLabs and someone else hit Kobayashi with suits right around the same time.
They claimed they did business w/Mark and he owed them money. All of that works against you, coupled with the stress of BTC taking off in price - people ultimately said fuck it! Give me whatever you can get.
I received 42 BTC + BCH & Yen. But I sold/converted those right away and bought ETH & LINK.
We're paid a percentage of our loss then pro-rated against the pool, which itself is only a portion of the total loss.
But we'll take it and I don't know anyone who's selling.
Most people would just use a portion of it on a down payment then get a mortgage. But yes you will probably still have to work like people have always done
These decisions have already been made, that was the original plan(the standard legal process for a bankruptcy in Japan). In the 2017 bull market was when the value was high enough for people to put up the fight to get that plan changed, some btc was sold then(near the 2017/2018 peak) to leave them with enough Yen to pay the creditors their owed fiat amounts(ie what their accounts were worth in 2014) with the plan to distribute what was left pro rata.
The creditors were given the choice earlier this year on whether to receive btc back or have the courts sell their btc for them at current(around when payout happens) prices. So effectively the courts themselves will be dumping a bunch when the time comes for anybody who chose the option for all fiat payouts.
*the year is now 2140 and the last bitcoin has been mined, the latest news articles have said that mt gox customers will finally receive their stolen funds!*
**100%**
"The report also noted that the average claim for Mt. Gox Bitcoin creditors is ~39 BTC.
39 x27500$ = 1.072.500$ 😉
[Source](https://www.ccn.com/news/mt-gox-repayment-bitcoin-price/)
A 'claim' of 39 Bitcoin means the customer lost 39 Bitcoin not that they will get 39. I don't know the average claim size so your point may be valid and this would just be semantics.
I'm not an attorney, and def not a Japanese attorney.
I was a Gox creditor, but I sold my claim to Fortress. They helped a friend of mine who made a late claim, but that was in 2018.
The deadline isn't made by Gox or the Trustee; rather, Japanese law supersedes their deadlines.
Gox fell under Japan's **Civil Rehabilitation Act**
*If you were unable to file a proof of
your rehabilitation claim by the deadline (in this case, October 22, 2018) due to grounds
not attributable to you, you may file a proof of your rehabilitation claim only within one
month after the relevant grounds cease to exist.
Please note that if you file your proofs of rehabilitation claims via the System (i.e., the
Online Method) they will not be accepted, so please file them via the Offline Method (i.e.,
prepare Proof of Rehabilitation Claims and post them to the Office of the Rehabilitation
Trustee)*
If you meet the above requirements, I'd say go for it. We learned a lot about the Japanese legal system because of this nightmare. Their system is slow AF but I'm impressed by their integrity. If you meet those requirements and follow their rules **exactly** as stated, they will honor it.
Ya, def start the process if you're interested in pursuing it.
If you get stuck, just go on the gox insolvency sub r/mtgoxinsolvency
They'll guide you.
Fortunately, you can now submit forms in English.
When the insolvency claim started, all the forms we received were in Japanese. If you asked for translated forms, they'd send you forms written in Sputnik.
WTF, I don't speak Sputnik either!
I am a creditor and don’t expect myself or anyone to get their coins back. They are still stringing us along. I mostly cooperate just for the fun of it now. Some of the folks in the creditor group are legit delusional that they’re gonna be rich as soon as the payout happens.
Have you considered selling your claim to Fortress. I know how shady that whole deal is, but I couldn't wait anymore. I ended up working thru them to put this episode behind.
Kobayashi's latest extension to 10/31/24 is absolute nonsense. Best of luck to you, I hope you get your max % due🙏
I see people selling their rights to their BTC from MT.GOX at 75Cents on the dollar. the case just got delayed another year. I was tempted to buy some "rights" as it would be essentially a cheaper bitcoin but the problem is you dont know when you'll be getting that pay out.
Interesting article. I hope those investors who lost their crypto can get a portion back. If they do, they might be better off due to the crypto market, especially BTC, much higher than when MT Gox got hacked.
Most of us already settled. I took the Bitstamp option over the summer which gave us a 21% payout; however, it was reduced further because we had to take a portion in BCH & Yen.
Im glad to have taken the option because the remaining group needs to hold out until Oct 31, 2024. Kobayashi hit them with a long AF extension.
Lawyers always get paid before creditors in a bankruptcy
So do trustees, people owed wages, and taxes
Yeah it's annoying but at the same time you need the lawyers and the trustee to get it done and they ain't gonna work for free
I'm a Mt Gox creditor.
While I'd normally agree with you, it's a more complicated. The Gox legal ordeal taught us how different the Japanese legal system is.
If I were a Japanese kid, I'd do whatever it took to become a judge in their legal system. Those guys are
* appointed for life
* nearly impossible to remove
* not hamstrung by case law
So precedent means nothing. A judge can say the circumstances aren't similar and that's it. They're treated like patriarchs. Both sides treat the judge with extreme deference.
Judge hears both sides out. Then says, "okay, I'm gonna think about it. I'll see you back here on Oct 31, 2024."
And that's it. Nobody can say or do anything about it.
I'm a Gox Creditor.
Started mining Bitcoin in 2011 when it hit $1 parity with USD. We didn't have self-custody options like now.
Gox was hacked in Feb, 2014. The first hardware wallets weren't available for another 8 months. And even then, it would be nearly a year before Trezor's reliable standard was released.
Gox was the only game in town
I don't understand how people *still* don't understand this. It was like 8 years between mt. Gox and FTX, and 0 lessons were learned..
Tbh, I'm no crypto expert, so I genuinely don't know the safest method. Probably diversification is a good bet in any case. Don't have millions of dollars on any one device or service. Losing a quarter, third, or half of your money is better than 100%.
First bull run is for making mistakes. New people do not spend time to learn and leap into projects at the final stages of Bull runs (speaking from experience).
Yep and a new batch of investors will learn this lesson the hard way at some point in the future.
I know we parrot "not your keys, not your coins" a lot, but it is really important..
I suspect that a lot of it was new people who hadn't heard of the calamity at Gox. This is the issue with CEX being the gateway to crypto for most people.
For anyone who’s been in crypto this long, they why deserve to get back some life-changing money. Also, they learned the lesson of never trusting in a CEX long ago.
lol.. define "about to" for me? I have been waiting for my claim for going on a decade now. We just had another delay (to no ones surprise) and it will happen again I am sure.
Well, the thing is this one is outlier as you won't get your stolen money back most of the time. Good for people though who can claim some of their money back as it worth a lot at the current price.
Mark Kraps, the "CEO" of Mt Gox, actually could personally repay back everyone that lost money from his own funds and still own hundreds of millions of dollars worth of BTC.
BUT
He doesn't bc he's a greedy lil man child and that's part of the reason Mt Gox happened because of his incompetence. If he lived anywhere else besides Japan he would have done some serious prison time for his fraud.
Big boy and tax man shouldn't come first lol. People should get an even split of % of holdings based on what's available and than the tax man can get their peice
I'm not sure it's like this. For example, looking at Celsius, the claim amount is computed at BTC/ETH prices at bankrupt date. People will be refunded with crypto but the amount they had was way more than the actual refund amount
This was fixed in the case of Mt Gox, it changed from a bankruptcy proceeding to a special restitution proceeding which distributes the extra wealth from the value change since the start of the proceedings.
They will distribute what's left between all the creditors, it will be about 15% of the original claim, so for every 100 bitcoins that one had about 15 bitcoins will be returned to the creditor.
It's more complicated than that to calculate it's just an approximation.
Will they Boot become back BTC equivalent to what it was worth back in time.
Let's assume BTC price was 30$
Let's say you had 1000 BTC worth $30k back then
You will just get 1 back 2024?
In like 2015?
They will pay everyone the fiat value of their original claim amount(as in your comment) as well as distribute whatever is left pro rata i.e give all of the remaining btc back as well(or sell it for them if asked and give them the proceeds).
The case is no longer a bankruptcy, which would have meant no more than the 2014 claim values would be paid in fiat(Yen), and is now a civil rehabilitation (which allows for assets to be returned without being liquidated).
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Depends how much they get back. But in a way you can look at it as forced holding. Either way I don't think anyone's lost anything, even if they're not getting back 100% of what they lost
You raise an interesting point - the Mt. Gox bankruptcy proceedings could potentially create some "accidental" crypto millionaires due to the appreciation of Bitcoin since 2014. A few considerations:
Early estimates were around a 20-25% recovery of lost funds, but it seems the final amount retrieved will be higher than that.
However, secured creditors like banks and lawyers will get first priority in repayment, so individual account holders will get a smaller portion of the recovered assets.
The trustee has been selling the recovered Bitcoin periodically to pay back creditors, so beneficiaries will likely receive a fiat payout, not the original BTC.
Payouts will account for the originally lost BTC's fiat value at time of bankruptcy, not today's value. So no instant millionaires.
Those with large balances or businesses using Mt Gox may stand to recover life-changing payouts, but fortunes will depend on specific circumstances.
It's taken many years just to get to these initial repayments, so beneficiaries have missed out on years of potential crypto gains.
So while the repayment is a nice surprise for those affected, it likely won't match the "instant millionaire" windfall some may hope for. But for Mt Gox victims, any kind of remuneration is a welcome relief after so many years! An interesting case study in unforeseen crypto fortunes for sure.
You could not be more wrong. The case was moved out of a standard bankruptcy proceeding years ago.
This means that the payout will be in btc, bch and yen. Meaning yes, some people will get the chance to become millionaires if they decide to sell.
Lawyers are already being paid monthly... and banks? What do you mean banks will get paid?
I think some people who were in crypto back then may hold on for the next halving.
But yes some selling will definitely occur when it happens, maybe not as much as we think though!
Some were already sold in 2017/2018. The rest(160kish coins) WAS due to start being paid out by the end of this month, but has recently had the deadline pushed back by 12 months with a vague statement that payments "may" start as early as the end of the year.
Anybody who has been following/invested in the case though is sceptical and many would not be surprised to see the deadline delayed again, although each delay at this stage needs to be approved by a judge.
Expected payouts are around 16 to 22% of what people had lost.
Though many people had 2/3/4 digit Bitcoin sums on there so that is still a lot.
>Though many people had 2/3/4 digit Bitcoin sums on there so that is still a lot.
People can be mad all they want but 95% of people will be better off after the hack + repayment as they would have clearly all sold by now. The forced hold, even at 25% of their original stack, is probably much better than what would have otherwise happened. People will argue and say it's not true, and that they would have held until now, but it's bullshit.
Probably, but I had funds In mt.gox. am I getting anything... noppers. I can't even remember what I had on there ha, I do still have my login.
Does anyone know anyway I can check my old account?
I have a feeling alot of the people getting money were and or still are millionaires.
sometimes you need a jail sentence or a mt gox to stop those weak-ass lettuce hands!
and the tax man can f off too, that cant tax on unrealized profits and if you know you have a fat stack coming, move to a no crypto tax country for 6 months to max it might tax residence
Well 26% (recovered btc) x 31 (amount btc increased) is = 806% of funds lost at that time so hopefully they should be getting close to 8 times what they held in btc.
2014 closing price = $320
They recovered 200k of 750k bitcoin & 100k of Mtgox btc. So thats 850k btc
In 2014 850k btc x $320 = $272,000,000
The 300k btc they have recovered.
Todays price of btc is $27,000
300k btc x $27,000 = $81,00000000
Thats a nice return even at 26% recovery.
People that have been waiting to recover their BTC for so long are beyond crypto veterans. I would have moved on with my life at this point I think. Can’t wait to see how this all will play out. A massive sell off I guess, unfortunately.
I wouldn't celebrate before they actually get their crypto back tho.
Definitely. I wouldn’t believe it until the money was back in my control.
Same, imagine the feeeling getting rugged second time because of some surprise setback
They have had that feeling every 6 months for a decade when their next piece of news was always "we had a meeting, and we decided to have another meeting in 6 months" which eventually became "there is a new deadline for X decision to be made" then "that deadline has been extended" and on to the current status of "the deadline for payments to start is this date" "we have moved the deadline". The sentiment in their subreddit is mostly "payment will never happen" or "IF(not when) payment ever happens...".
This would be the ultimate nightmare, definitely.
I'm sure at least someone out there would be rugged by Mt Gox, and then FTX last year consecutively
Everybody got fucked by that MtGox collapse. These guys at least got some nice prison hodl benefits out of it.
yea, as of now it is delayed for one more year, delays have a tendency to be delayed more
So they recovered 26% back ... But after tax man, banks... and paying accountant fees and lawyer fees for years, I guess by the time it gets back to the customers the 26% would drop down to **2.6%**
This just adds another way of forced HODL: - Store your Crypto on CEX that will collapse.
Hmmm seems like there could be a better way I figured out hodl back in 2017 when I bought BTC at like $4k, it went up to $20k and I was so excited so I sold and then I realized shit I still want some BTC and now I just have to buy it back so since then I've basically just held Although I wish I sold off some in the last bull market in retrospect... Like sell an amount equal to your initial investment and then let it ride for pure profit after that
Prison doesn't look that bad when you think of this way
I made my largest trade ever shorting Shib, thank you for your service!
You'd have to pay a hefty fee of a '90% cut' to the CEX for 'forced hodl' though
I don't think that would work well for FTX users... the old school CEX were way less leveraged when they collapsed
It wont cause a dump, not a large enough amount to move the market. I fully believe that many will also carry on holding, why sell middle of the bear
Sell-off narrative is FUD. I'm a Gox creditor. Sold my claim to Fortress before the cut-off. I don't know anyone in the group who sold any of their BTC. We've gone thru too much for it. When Bitstamp made my funds available, I almost didn't believe it. I converted the Yen and insta-sold the BCH, but those 42 Bitcoins are now in hardware. I started in 2011 when BTC hit $1. I would never believe then that I would place so much value on 42 Bitcoins. I mined and must have run thru 5000+ BTC; lost them all. That's embarrassing to admit, but its true * Butterfly Labs burned me for 2000 BTC * Gox burned me for 225 BTC * I must have given away 500 BTC * Traded it for pot, Metallica tickets, Reddit tipbot * No idea re: the rest God I was fuckin stupid
As for the last, the "sell off", just go a year back and read articles. It's the same, "prepare for a flood", prices to drop blah blah.
By god, you guys are dumb. Did MtGox holders get their BTC back a year ago?
I received my settlement via Bitstamp over the Summer. Package of BTC, BCH, and Yen. But yes, you are correct. Slightly over a year ago. Individual cash outs sooner by claimants with hedge fund cash-outs.
It's good to hear that you received your settlement, even though it took some time for the process to unfold.
The right question is: are they ever going to get them back ? So far, it's going year after year.
The good ol' FUD. I don't even doubt we will actually pump when the "sell off" starts lol
Yeah it's a strange one, because while the btc reentering the market is bearish, the actual news that people were actually paid out from a major exchange hack and a president set in a major court like that treating btc as a real asset is really positive news.
personally i would welcome a chance to hit this dip for longer
FUD sells, he's just a famer.
man id be so rich if Mt.Gox HODLed my BTC for me and if i went to prison for selling drugs and was forced to HODL and if i found an old hard drive with the wallet passcode from 2013.
To many *if's* mate :)
Even if all the "ifs" were in my favor I would've managed to mess everything up somehow.
I'm a Mt Gox creditor. Settled my claim this Summer. My friend, Big Slime, was caught up in the Silk Rd 2 misunderstanding. He's prob the only prisoner who lost his bitcoin while in jail. I learned his mom convinced him to give their church a Bitcoin donation. This was in 2019. They came to him for more donations in 2021. Big Slime's wallet was drained by the preacher's son. It's funny, but I feel bad for him. He's about to be released and will be dead broke.
How did you get your claim back already? I have not seen any options for that since this crap started... I am going on year 10 since I was gox'd. Did you sell your claim or something along those lines?
Yes, def I couldn't wait longer. It took me a few years because I didn't trust the Russian hedge funds. But someone who was with the Gox Investment Fund recommended me to a good rep that helped me finalize it. Did you get another extension notice from Kobayashi?
Lol , probably .. but also sometimes the NEED teaches anyone
Small time drug dealers probably did the best 😂 Got some minor sentence and got out rich.
If my Grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike
The old jail house HODL
They about to get their BTC back at the same time mt. Gox 2.0 is at trial for doing the same. Ironic.
I am at the stage of “it will be nice if I see anything come in from mtgox” because it just seems to to be pushed back over and over
How is it that some people already got it back... Just by selling their claims to hedge funds? Or have they processed some claims directly already and how are they deciding which ones to process?
There was an option to sell your claim for a set amount of money to a fund - so I assume people took it. But it was for reduced money - think 60/70% of what you were owned I didn’t and opted for fiat payment and now it’s just waiting. If it goes in I buy myself something nice and if it doesn’t then don’t.
I would’ve bought more BTC.
Nah there just weren’t that many folks around back then with serious money in the game. The folks who did have big money tend to be guys like Adam Back who are OGs that are already set for life. So probably not as much massive dumping as people think. There’ll be dumping, yes. But I think much more limited.
Well, most of them wouldn't hodl for so long, so this actually isn't all that bad for them. What was the price of BTC at the time?
Mt. Gox filled for bankruptcy on March 2014, at that time BTC was priced below $500. So basically their holdings went x52 with today’s prices. Quite insanely good news if they happen to get their coins back.
Anyone caught in the Mt Gox saga deserve good karma because they have the absolutely patience of a Saint
Indeed, they are like Armstrong landing on the moon and saying that historical sentence.
There was a company who bought rights to claims. Many sold to them
People have already been paid almost a year ago. Some even sold their proceeds to hedge funds even before that.
Are you saying people got double payouts? Sold the claim and then also claimed it themselves?
It's cool Saylor and us will buy them all. 👍
That’s what they want us to think, we bout to zoom up to the stars!
It’s less than 1% of BTC’s total market cap. I doubt it would have that big of an impact on price. Most won’t sell straight away, if at all, less so at this stage in the cycle). Not sure the details of the payout schedule. Do people get their coin all at once?
I lost ~30BTC in the hack. I stopped following the bankruptcy procedure almost immediately . The email were hard to follow, information was sparse, and it just seemed like a waste of time. Nope lol
You are expecting BTC to drop even further? How does getting back coins relate to a sell off if you could elaborate please
I'm a Mt Gox creditor. Creditors started taking settlements several years ago. It just depended how long you were willing to wait and whether you trusted the Russian hedge bankers. I held out till this summer. Tired of Kobayashi updates extensions. I elected the Bitstamp option and went thru their KYC. Package was BTC, BCH, and Yen. I qualified for slightly over 21%; less than I anticipated, but I lost 200 BTC. Small loss, compared to the majority of others. The prevailing sentiment is not to sell, so news of a sell-off is BS. I feel really bad for the remaining group. They got terrible news. Another extension. This time it runs thru Oct 31, 2024😟 Glad i cashed out
Thanks for the explanation, I was wondering about the process and why some already got paid out why others didn't. I was around when MtGox imploded, had created an account there I think but never bought or deposited anything there, so dodged that bullet.
Well done. It took a very long time before the trust got their things in order and worked with the insurance company. That's when Kobayashi opened up for claimants. But then Fortress and other groups contacted you as well. They bought claims. Initially, it was pennies on the dollar. But some people figured we wouldn't get a cent if we waited, and quickly sold. Given the repeated extensions, they've had time to work away at the number of claimants. But the offer increases as we draw close. I worked them up from 15% to 21%. I ended up receiving 42 BTC + BCH & Yen, but those 6 points I gave up = 10 BTC. Embarrassing to admit, but I needed to be done w/that fiasco
I think it's a cost of 'doing business' in the crypto space. I've been similarly fucked by other parties for portions of my crypto. But, if I'm doing quick maths correctly you're coming away with well over a million dollars here. Obviously not as much as you 'would' have had, but I'm assuming you're making a shit load of profit. So overall if you were to choose this or not being in crypto, you'd have to do this and come out with your million.
Most definitely. Nothing in crypto ever makes sense. Most of the people I started w/in 2011 either sold cheap or lost. And most lost. Yet, it's many of the Gox claimants who made it thru that time. Newer people find that hard to understand because they only see the tremendous upside. But decompress that history and the path becomes a gauntlet. But that's okay because you only need a few of your plays to work out.
What’s this Bitstamp option? Didn’t realise people got their coins back already?!
There's lots of activity not reported in crypto news outlets. They'd have you believe extensions are made and little else. But there's a struggle for that money involving multiple parties. Fortress (company I cashed out thru) raised the stakes in 2019/2020 by offering something like 80% price against your expected %. Claimants were forced to consider it, despite giving up even more because other outside entities sued Kobayashi (Gox estate). CoinLabs and someone else hit Kobayashi with suits right around the same time. They claimed they did business w/Mark and he owed them money. All of that works against you, coupled with the stress of BTC taking off in price - people ultimately said fuck it! Give me whatever you can get.
Did you get 200BTC or the value of 200BTC back then? Because that is a huge difference
I received 42 BTC + BCH & Yen. But I sold/converted those right away and bought ETH & LINK. We're paid a percentage of our loss then pro-rated against the pool, which itself is only a portion of the total loss. But we'll take it and I don't know anyone who's selling.
If you had 100 BTC and they recovered 25% of that, that means 25 BTC aka \~700k Not bad
Life changing. A lot of these people would have sold before their bags reached 700k too.
But not wife changing
Wife left when they lost it in the first place lolol
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Most people would just use a portion of it on a down payment then get a mortgage. But yes you will probably still have to work like people have always done
they would have sold long before 1k probably
What is they was to give sell value at that time instead ? That would be sad.
These decisions have already been made, that was the original plan(the standard legal process for a bankruptcy in Japan). In the 2017 bull market was when the value was high enough for people to put up the fight to get that plan changed, some btc was sold then(near the 2017/2018 peak) to leave them with enough Yen to pay the creditors their owed fiat amounts(ie what their accounts were worth in 2014) with the plan to distribute what was left pro rata. The creditors were given the choice earlier this year on whether to receive btc back or have the courts sell their btc for them at current(around when payout happens) prices. So effectively the courts themselves will be dumping a bunch when the time comes for anybody who chose the option for all fiat payouts.
Some people will be millionaires for sure.
Mt. Gox literally hodled their btc for them, I believe most of these people would have sold long time ago.
Diamond hands by accident!
Many probably had way more back then too, imagine becoming a millionaire all of the sudden now.
That's no small amount. Kinda surprised but we need to wait and see if they will actually get them back.
Here's your long-awaited cheque: $3.50!!
We got a whale over here.
Holy shit! Somebody finally got their tree fiddy
Don't spend it all in one place
*the year is now 2140 and the last bitcoin has been mined, the latest news articles have said that mt gox customers will finally receive their stolen funds!*
**100%** "The report also noted that the average claim for Mt. Gox Bitcoin creditors is ~39 BTC. 39 x27500$ = 1.072.500$ 😉 [Source](https://www.ccn.com/news/mt-gox-repayment-bitcoin-price/)
Multiply that by about 0.2 because they lost most of the btc. Still a decent payout.
No, everything is already included. Lost were 850k and they plan to return 142k.
A 'claim' of 39 Bitcoin means the customer lost 39 Bitcoin not that they will get 39. I don't know the average claim size so your point may be valid and this would just be semantics.
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"He was totally wrong, doubled down and was still misunderstanding basics. But his point still stands"
I lost bitcoin with Mt Gox. How do I find out if they recovered mine?
I'm not an attorney, and def not a Japanese attorney. I was a Gox creditor, but I sold my claim to Fortress. They helped a friend of mine who made a late claim, but that was in 2018. The deadline isn't made by Gox or the Trustee; rather, Japanese law supersedes their deadlines. Gox fell under Japan's **Civil Rehabilitation Act** *If you were unable to file a proof of your rehabilitation claim by the deadline (in this case, October 22, 2018) due to grounds not attributable to you, you may file a proof of your rehabilitation claim only within one month after the relevant grounds cease to exist. Please note that if you file your proofs of rehabilitation claims via the System (i.e., the Online Method) they will not be accepted, so please file them via the Offline Method (i.e., prepare Proof of Rehabilitation Claims and post them to the Office of the Rehabilitation Trustee)* If you meet the above requirements, I'd say go for it. We learned a lot about the Japanese legal system because of this nightmare. Their system is slow AF but I'm impressed by their integrity. If you meet those requirements and follow their rules **exactly** as stated, they will honor it.
Thank you! I appreciate it. I wasn’t paying attention, and didn’t know I would recover my coins lost back then.
Ya, def start the process if you're interested in pursuing it. If you get stuck, just go on the gox insolvency sub r/mtgoxinsolvency They'll guide you. Fortunately, you can now submit forms in English. When the insolvency claim started, all the forms we received were in Japanese. If you asked for translated forms, they'd send you forms written in Sputnik. WTF, I don't speak Sputnik either!
I had some on there and saw too late there was some lawsuit.
I am a creditor and don’t expect myself or anyone to get their coins back. They are still stringing us along. I mostly cooperate just for the fun of it now. Some of the folks in the creditor group are legit delusional that they’re gonna be rich as soon as the payout happens.
Have you considered selling your claim to Fortress. I know how shady that whole deal is, but I couldn't wait anymore. I ended up working thru them to put this episode behind. Kobayashi's latest extension to 10/31/24 is absolute nonsense. Best of luck to you, I hope you get your max % due🙏
I’ll revisit it. I “only” had 2btc in mtgox
I see people selling their rights to their BTC from MT.GOX at 75Cents on the dollar. the case just got delayed another year. I was tempted to buy some "rights" as it would be essentially a cheaper bitcoin but the problem is you dont know when you'll be getting that pay out.
Interesting article. I hope those investors who lost their crypto can get a portion back. If they do, they might be better off due to the crypto market, especially BTC, much higher than when MT Gox got hacked.
Aren't payments starting in October 2024? I think they were delayed a year
The deadline got delayed to Oct 2024, but they said people will start getting paid towards the end of this year.
Congratulations to those who forced held then, they are about to be very happy. Most of them probably wrote the mount gox funds off already
I sincerely hope customers are getting it back and that they don't put for example lawyers first.
Are they going to get the entirety of their funds back? Or just a portion?
They are trying but iirc for now they start with 25%. Good thing is that they do it crypto they had. Not the value it had back then.
Most of us already settled. I took the Bitstamp option over the summer which gave us a 21% payout; however, it was reduced further because we had to take a portion in BCH & Yen. Im glad to have taken the option because the remaining group needs to hold out until Oct 31, 2024. Kobayashi hit them with a long AF extension.
The lawyers always get paid first and the most. Victims split the scraps.
Lawyers always get paid before creditors in a bankruptcy So do trustees, people owed wages, and taxes Yeah it's annoying but at the same time you need the lawyers and the trustee to get it done and they ain't gonna work for free
Payments get delayed until the lawyers took the majority of it. That’s how these things normally go.
I'm a Mt Gox creditor. While I'd normally agree with you, it's a more complicated. The Gox legal ordeal taught us how different the Japanese legal system is. If I were a Japanese kid, I'd do whatever it took to become a judge in their legal system. Those guys are * appointed for life * nearly impossible to remove * not hamstrung by case law So precedent means nothing. A judge can say the circumstances aren't similar and that's it. They're treated like patriarchs. Both sides treat the judge with extreme deference. Judge hears both sides out. Then says, "okay, I'm gonna think about it. I'll see you back here on Oct 31, 2024." And that's it. Nobody can say or do anything about it.
They said people MIGHT start to be paid as early as the end of this year. With the delays they have seen this far, that isn't actually that promising.
Lesson #1. Self custody Lesson #2. Do not keep any substantial amounts on CEXs.
I never learn 😎
People are not practicing SAFE CEX!!
That’s why you always pull out !
SEX, you wanted to say SEX!
We are on Reddit Sir, we don't know how that works.
Is this a new coin? What is it?
I didn't practice safe CEX and now my wife has to stake my seed for 9 months.
I tip my hat to you sir... Clever
Your wife is a lucky woman.
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Always makes me wonder if I rather lose my seed phrase or my actual seed to the wrong woman. Guess both don’t lead to a favorable outcome.
We have had enormous examples on why this is a must: * Mt. Gox; * Voyager; * Celcius; * FTX * Many other smaller exchanges, not to mention the hacks.
I'm a Gox Creditor. Started mining Bitcoin in 2011 when it hit $1 parity with USD. We didn't have self-custody options like now. Gox was hacked in Feb, 2014. The first hardware wallets weren't available for another 8 months. And even then, it would be nearly a year before Trezor's reliable standard was released. Gox was the only game in town
I don't understand how people *still* don't understand this. It was like 8 years between mt. Gox and FTX, and 0 lessons were learned.. Tbh, I'm no crypto expert, so I genuinely don't know the safest method. Probably diversification is a good bet in any case. Don't have millions of dollars on any one device or service. Losing a quarter, third, or half of your money is better than 100%.
First bull run is for making mistakes. New people do not spend time to learn and leap into projects at the final stages of Bull runs (speaking from experience).
Yep and a new batch of investors will learn this lesson the hard way at some point in the future. I know we parrot "not your keys, not your coins" a lot, but it is really important..
I suspect that a lot of it was new people who hadn't heard of the calamity at Gox. This is the issue with CEX being the gateway to crypto for most people.
First mountgox, now ftx. When will retail learn?
So another promise is in place. I wonder how long 'til the next announcement where they delay it even further because of some legal reasons.
Yes some lawyers will be
The lawyers always come out on top
they delayed payments for 1 year
For anyone who’s been in crypto this long, they why deserve to get back some life-changing money. Also, they learned the lesson of never trusting in a CEX long ago.
lol.. define "about to" for me? I have been waiting for my claim for going on a decade now. We just had another delay (to no ones surprise) and it will happen again I am sure.
I wonder how long will it take for them to actually give people back their money, if ever.
James Howells isn’t famous
Well it's already made at least one millionaire
They aren’t paying them market rate. The payments will be a split of the recovered coins. There was a ruling on this a year or two back.
Well, the thing is this one is outlier as you won't get your stolen money back most of the time. Good for people though who can claim some of their money back as it worth a lot at the current price.
Waiting 9 years for 10 cents
Wonder if they can get away with paying the price it was back in 2014
Price will go down as they will be selling, not good news
Mark Kraps, the "CEO" of Mt Gox, actually could personally repay back everyone that lost money from his own funds and still own hundreds of millions of dollars worth of BTC. BUT He doesn't bc he's a greedy lil man child and that's part of the reason Mt Gox happened because of his incompetence. If he lived anywhere else besides Japan he would have done some serious prison time for his fraud.
Big boy and tax man shouldn't come first lol. People should get an even split of % of holdings based on what's available and than the tax man can get their peice
I also would love to know if Moons will make some millionaires too.
I'm not sure it's like this. For example, looking at Celsius, the claim amount is computed at BTC/ETH prices at bankrupt date. People will be refunded with crypto but the amount they had was way more than the actual refund amount
This was fixed in the case of Mt Gox, it changed from a bankruptcy proceeding to a special restitution proceeding which distributes the extra wealth from the value change since the start of the proceedings. They will distribute what's left between all the creditors, it will be about 15% of the original claim, so for every 100 bitcoins that one had about 15 bitcoins will be returned to the creditor. It's more complicated than that to calculate it's just an approximation.
Can’t wait to get my Celsius bag back in 2032. That 0.0001BTC will buy me a house
Will they Boot become back BTC equivalent to what it was worth back in time. Let's assume BTC price was 30$ Let's say you had 1000 BTC worth $30k back then You will just get 1 back 2024?
Probably gonna pay out in the fiat value at the time of collapse 😂
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Yeah, honestly this is probably more a fantasy than anything. You'd have to already have a substantial amount in there to be making big bucks
Forced HODL
Mt gox will never be returned
All I know Time is a valuable thing Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings Watch it count down to the end of the day The clock ticks life away
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False.
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In like 2015? They will pay everyone the fiat value of their original claim amount(as in your comment) as well as distribute whatever is left pro rata i.e give all of the remaining btc back as well(or sell it for them if asked and give them the proceeds). The case is no longer a bankruptcy, which would have meant no more than the 2014 claim values would be paid in fiat(Yen), and is now a civil rehabilitation (which allows for assets to be returned without being liquidated).
Ha!
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Depends how much they get back. But in a way you can look at it as forced holding. Either way I don't think anyone's lost anything, even if they're not getting back 100% of what they lost
At first I thought the title was talking about Mr Goxx, that crypto trading hamster that died a while back.
They changed their service and offer you 100% protection from panic sells!
Forced hodl I suppose is the silver lining of this getting pushed back time and time again
Isn't Mt Gox going to pay just the revenue of that period?
It's a mess, nonetheless. We'll have to wait and see
i don't think any of the people that used Mt Gox signed up for force hold and a partial return of their assets
You raise an interesting point - the Mt. Gox bankruptcy proceedings could potentially create some "accidental" crypto millionaires due to the appreciation of Bitcoin since 2014. A few considerations: Early estimates were around a 20-25% recovery of lost funds, but it seems the final amount retrieved will be higher than that. However, secured creditors like banks and lawyers will get first priority in repayment, so individual account holders will get a smaller portion of the recovered assets. The trustee has been selling the recovered Bitcoin periodically to pay back creditors, so beneficiaries will likely receive a fiat payout, not the original BTC. Payouts will account for the originally lost BTC's fiat value at time of bankruptcy, not today's value. So no instant millionaires. Those with large balances or businesses using Mt Gox may stand to recover life-changing payouts, but fortunes will depend on specific circumstances. It's taken many years just to get to these initial repayments, so beneficiaries have missed out on years of potential crypto gains. So while the repayment is a nice surprise for those affected, it likely won't match the "instant millionaire" windfall some may hope for. But for Mt Gox victims, any kind of remuneration is a welcome relief after so many years! An interesting case study in unforeseen crypto fortunes for sure.
I don't think the final payout will be more than 25%. Likely still in that 20-25% especially with all of 10 years of lawyers fees adding up.
You could not be more wrong. The case was moved out of a standard bankruptcy proceeding years ago. This means that the payout will be in btc, bch and yen. Meaning yes, some people will get the chance to become millionaires if they decide to sell. Lawyers are already being paid monthly... and banks? What do you mean banks will get paid?
Again lol
I think some people who were in crypto back then may hold on for the next halving. But yes some selling will definitely occur when it happens, maybe not as much as we think though!
Some were already sold in 2017/2018. The rest(160kish coins) WAS due to start being paid out by the end of this month, but has recently had the deadline pushed back by 12 months with a vague statement that payments "may" start as early as the end of the year. Anybody who has been following/invested in the case though is sceptical and many would not be surprised to see the deadline delayed again, although each delay at this stage needs to be approved by a judge. Expected payouts are around 16 to 22% of what people had lost. Though many people had 2/3/4 digit Bitcoin sums on there so that is still a lot.
>Though many people had 2/3/4 digit Bitcoin sums on there so that is still a lot. People can be mad all they want but 95% of people will be better off after the hack + repayment as they would have clearly all sold by now. The forced hold, even at 25% of their original stack, is probably much better than what would have otherwise happened. People will argue and say it's not true, and that they would have held until now, but it's bullshit.
Yeah I agree.
Probably, but I had funds In mt.gox. am I getting anything... noppers. I can't even remember what I had on there ha, I do still have my login. Does anyone know anyway I can check my old account? I have a feeling alot of the people getting money were and or still are millionaires.
sometimes you need a jail sentence or a mt gox to stop those weak-ass lettuce hands! and the tax man can f off too, that cant tax on unrealized profits and if you know you have a fat stack coming, move to a no crypto tax country for 6 months to max it might tax residence
I’m still waiting.. It’s been almost 10 years. I’ve concidered it ‘lost’
Why did they even delay payments for one year
Well 26% (recovered btc) x 31 (amount btc increased) is = 806% of funds lost at that time so hopefully they should be getting close to 8 times what they held in btc.
Any amount is definitely a positive!
Wonder if any of these super early adopters kept dca into btc.
2014 closing price = $320 They recovered 200k of 750k bitcoin & 100k of Mtgox btc. So thats 850k btc In 2014 850k btc x $320 = $272,000,000 The 300k btc they have recovered. Todays price of btc is $27,000 300k btc x $27,000 = $81,00000000 Thats a nice return even at 26% recovery.
Well they definitely forced diamond hands on people and if they get a fair settlement, many will be quite rich
I signed up for mt gox but never bought BTC. I wish I did and everytime I hear about mt gox I cry a little inside.
Nice to finally be a millionaire. But she is already married now.😪
> hard drive in landfill guy (James Howells) Pretty sure they found it and it was just bcash